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[0:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to the Drama Book Show.

[0:20] David Rigano: My name is David Rigano.

[0:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And today we are here to talk about Save Me a Seat on the Road with Hello Dolly.

[0:27] David Rigano: By Lewis J. Stadlen.

[0:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Right. Joined also by Laurence Maslon, who is moderating the event.

[0:37] David Rigano: So Lewis was Horace Vandergelder in the most recent tour of Hello Dolly.

[0:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Huh. And now I'm trying to remember if he I think that he was opposite Betty Buckley.

[0:48] David Rigano: Okay, because I know when I saw the show here.

[0:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I saw Bernadette, Victor Garber.

[0:53] David Rigano: Yep.

[0:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then I believe that John Bolton did it when Carole Carmelo stepped into it.

[0:59] David Rigano: What a man, what a show.

[1:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And that's an admission on my part is that is the first time I ever interacted with the show.

[1:07] David Rigano: Really?

[1:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I had never listened to it, watched the movie, anything.

[1:10] David Rigano: And so I went into Hello Dolly blind.

[1:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So just yeah. The first time I ever saw Hello Dolly was the last time Carol Channing did it on Broadway.

[1:21] David Rigano: Oh wow.

[1:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:24] David Rigano: Wow.

[1:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: When was that?

[1:25] David Rigano: That was in the mid-90s. They did a they did a US tour that ended with a stop on Broadway.

[1:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, that's so cool.

[1:34] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. And it was direct, I say directed, it was Gower Champion's production lovingly recreated by Leroy Reams, who was in the audience for this.

[1:47] David Rigano: For the event.

[1:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:48] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was.

[1:49] Lewis J. Stadlen: He heckled me.

[1:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was one of the best things that has ever happened to me here in this store.

[1:53] David Rigano: Always fun to get a good heckle.

[1:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:55] David Rigano: I had uh who was it? Heckling Nora.

[1:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Renee Taylor was heckling Nora when Nora was introducing them.

[2:01] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And Nora was like, Are you heckling me?

[2:05] David Rigano: I know.

[2:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We'll get to that episode at some point.

[2:09] David Rigano: We were doing a bit.

[2:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[2:11] David Rigano: And started and just started going back and forth.

[2:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She came in doing a bit.

[2:14] David Rigano: Like she got out of that taxi and came into the store just like hi.

[2:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm Renee Taylor immediately beelining to everybody with a punchline and ready to go.

[2:23] David Rigano: It was that was a nice.

[2:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I would expect nothing less.

[2:25] David Rigano: Oh, it was fun.

[2:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was really fun.

[2:27] David Rigano: As was this event.

[2:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[2:29] David Rigano: And Lewis is someone who got I believe that I saw him in A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum in the 90s.

[2:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Now was that the is that the Mary Testa Nathan Lane one?

[2:43] David Rigano: I didn't see Nathan Lane. I saw Whoopi Goldberg.

[2:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, interesting.

[2:46] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I discovered that.

[2:48] David Rigano: So I have to find my playbill to see if he had maybe also left by the time I saw it.

[2:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But I know that like I have the cast album with him on it.

[2:56] David Rigano: That was one of the shows, and I told her this for the event that she was here at that I bought solely because Mary Testa was on the album.

[3:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I saw her name on the back.

[3:05] David Rigano: I'd never heard of Forum or nor listened to Two Forum at that point.

[3:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I just bought it because I liked Mary Testa from Lucky St.

[3:12] David Rigano: It's brilliant in that show.

[3:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, absolutely.

[3:14] David Rigano: But that was my introduction, it was all through her.

[3:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, she's someone who taught me a lot about musical theater just by existing.

[3:20] David Rigano: Yeah.

[3:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, New Brain, what's that?

[3:23] David Rigano: Mary Testa's in it.

[3:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm getting it.

[3:25] David Rigano: And then listen to nothing but that show for two years.

[3:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and I'm and again, I'm trying to think like through what else in his long instrument career.

[3:34] David Rigano: Also with Nathan Lane, he did the Nance off Broadway.

[3:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Nice.

[3:38] David Rigano: And I actually used him as an example.

[3:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I was doing a show that had a like burlesque comedy bit in it.

[3:45] David Rigano: And I put on the Nance, skipping specific just to the parts that had the burlesque comedy, with him and Nathan Lane on stage doing burlesque comedy.

[3:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Watch this, this is the style that we're doing in this scene.

[4:00] David Rigano: That's amazing.

[4:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is amazing.

[4:02] David Rigano: And then, of course, my favorite show of all time, and my favorite role that I have ever played when I was a teenager at theater camp is Candide.

[4:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, yes.

[4:13] David Rigano: And I played Dr. Pangloss and many others.

[4:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And in the initial production where Hugh Wheeler chain rewrote the book so that it was Dr. Pangaloss and multiple other characters, Louis Stadlin played that part.

[4:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, he did in the Hal Prince production in the 70s.

[4:33] David Rigano: Is that the one?

[4:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No, that's not the DVD one.

[4:35] David Rigano: The one that was there was one on DVD from that was like the 90s.

[4:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I feel like China Wood was in it.

[4:38] David Rigano: From the I know my Candide very well.

[4:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is the that is when Hal Prince took that production to the New York City Opera House, expanded it into two acts.

[4:50] David Rigano: I can't remember the name.

[4:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's an opera comic opera singer.

[4:53] David Rigano: Yeah.

[4:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Not like a Broadway guy playing Pangloss in that.

[4:56] David Rigano: But that's at New York City Opera.

[4:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, okay.

[4:58] David Rigano: I remember I saw that once you have that, don't you?

[5:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It is it is like the same production, but expanded to a larger version.

[5:07] David Rigano: And expanded more for an opera performance than for a like off-Broadway style show.

[5:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I have seen the opening number of that.

[5:21] David Rigano: Yeah.

[5:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[5:23] David Rigano: I probably should sit and watch the whole thing.

[5:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That yeah, that was that whole thing was filmed for live from Lincoln Center.

[5:28] David Rigano: Yeah, I feel like I remember that.

[5:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. With Beverly Sills, bless her, giving interviews.

[5:36] David Rigano: Yeah, so that's like Lewis J. Stadlen is someone who has just, he's one of those people who's just always been there.

[5:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I love those actors.

[5:44] David Rigano: Yeah, who were just he also that I think about it's so funny.

[5:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Right after college, I worked for Larry Grossman, the composer.

[5:53] David Rigano: Yeah.

[5:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we did, I was a music copyist for him because we were doing concert versions at the York Theater.

[5:59] David Rigano: They do their Mufti series.

[6:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So we're doing concert versions of three of Larry's musicals, and then culminating the summer with a review of his music.

[6:09] David Rigano: And the first musical that we were doing that summer was Minnie's Boys, the backstage musical about the Marx brothers.

[6:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And again, in the original production of that, Lewis J. Stadlen played Groucho Marx.

[6:22] David Rigano: That is incredible.

[6:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That just had history.

[6:25] David Rigano: He's had history in theater and had so many stories to tell us.

[6:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So many colorful stories.

[6:34] David Rigano: So many so colorful.

[6:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And let's let him do that now.

[6:43] David Rigano: Oh, if only we listen, you and I will talk to someone about getting the liquor license and then light the candles that's today.

[6:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Lawrence is going to tell you a little bit about our guest for the evening, Lewis J. Stadlin.

[6:54] David Rigano: So, ladies and gentlemen, please help me in welcoming Laurence Maslon.

[7:06] Laurence Maslon: We're gonna get Lewis J. Stadlen meet.

[7:09] Laurence Maslon: So that's the best cocktail I can offer you. About five decades ago, I came in from Long Island to see a matinee of a musical called Candide, because we were studying it in French class.

[7:21] Laurence Maslon: And I was given a bleacher seat because those were the cheaper ones.

[7:25] Laurence Maslon: And the usher said, You have to move closer to your neighbor.

[7:27] Laurence Maslon: And my neighbor said, I don't want to move close to him. Why is he moving close to me?

[7:31] Laurence Maslon: And that was a very deflating moment, and it didn't help impress my date.

[7:35] Laurence Maslon: But the lights went up on Lewis J. Stadlin playing Voltaire and a million other parts, and the clouds broke, and oh, what a break for me.

[7:44] Laurence Maslon: It was a magnificent evening in the theater.

[7:46] Laurence Maslon: And I'm happy to say I loved his performance.

[7:49] Laurence Maslon: I love the show.

[7:50] Laurence Maslon: And lucky for me, I got to know Lewis, and I love Lewis.

[7:54] Laurence Maslon: As you probably all know, Lewis J. Stadlin is one of our most accomplished actors in the theater.

[7:59] Laurence Maslon: He had a Broadway debut for the ages in Minnie's Boys.

[8:03] Laurence Maslon: He went on to do The Sunshine Boys, The Odd Couple, Candide, for which he was nominated for a Tony, Laughter on the 23rd Floor, The Producers, Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, for which he was also nominated for a Tony, The Neck, and many other shows.

[8:19] Laurence Maslon: Luckily for us, however, he also fell in love with this thing called The Road.

[8:24] Laurence Maslon: And he spread a little happiness from all corners of this great country of ours in production, such as Guys and Dolls, Fiddler on the Roof, which I'll talk about, The Producers, and Hello Dolly, which make the corpus of Save Me a Seat a wonderful book.

[8:41] Laurence Maslon: And I should add Lewis's second book, because his first book, Acting Foolish is also a magnificent tome, which you should get.

[8:49] Laurence Maslon: If you've had the privilege of being with Lewis and uh having, say, lunch with him, it's not a table for two, it's a table for you and dozens of people.

[9:00] Laurence Maslon: He and I had lunch last week, and not only was Lewis there, but Theodore Bikel and Shelly Winters and Luther Adler and even Leora Dana, if you can imagine that.

[9:11] Laurence Maslon: A great raconteur, a wonderful actor and a lovely friend.

[9:14] Laurence Maslon: Please welcome Lewis J. Stadlin.

[9:36] Lewis J. Stadlen: Talk out of the microphone, darling.

[9:40] Lewis J. Stadlen: I know I'm pulling you away from the New Hampshire primary.

[9:45] Lewis J. Stadlen: I met Larry years ago.

[9:48] Lewis J. Stadlen: He was the associate artistic director at the arena stage.

[9:52] Lewis J. Stadlen: It was I was there at Zelda Fitzchandler's last year.

[9:56] Lewis J. Stadlen: And I did the Caucasian chalk circle.

[9:59] Lewis J. Stadlen: And there's a an anecdote in the book about it, but we're not doing it.

[10:03] Lewis J. Stadlen: Larry was very careful.

[10:05] Lewis J. Stadlen: I had a couple of racy anecdotes that I wanted to say tonight, but he said he didn't want me to offend anybody.

[10:12] Lewis J. Stadlen: Although I don't think that this crowd is easily offended.

[10:17] Lewis J. Stadlen: At any rate.

[10:18] Lewis J. Stadlen: At any rate.

[10:19] Lewis J. Stadlen: So why don't you start?

[10:20] Lewis J. Stadlen: You have a wonderful series of introductions to your book, and then we'll take it from there and we'll traverse this great country of ours with your book.

[10:28] Lewis J. Stadlen: And you save me a seat is both a promise and a plea.

[10:38] Lewis J. Stadlen: Well, I put on my reading glasses.

[10:47] Lewis J. Stadlen: If you promise not to leave home without me, I promise to appreciate whenever possible the gift of travel, for I am happiest while in transit.

[10:58] Lewis J. Stadlen: This book is about the touring life, but more intimately, it's about time, geography, and memory, in concert with my 55 roller coaster years in show business, my association with those artistic souls of whom I am one, who either find an outlet to exercise their creative bent or become a menace to society.

[11:21] Lewis J. Stadlen: We stand in contrast to those financial overlords who gravitate to show business for reasons I have yet to fathom.

[11:30] Lewis J. Stadlen: Actually, I have, but it irritates me all the same.

[11:33] Lewis J. Stadlen: Two immovable forces struggling to comprehend the motives of the other.

[11:39] Lewis J. Stadlen: Nowhere in my experience is satisfaction and disappointment more dramatic than when your colleagues reside several feet down the hall or across the aisle during a 10-hour bus ride or waiting out a delay at a departure gate with the hope that your next destination will lead to internal happiness.

[12:00] Lewis J. Stadlen: If you want to experience the vicissitudes of human nature, it's the road that brings out the love, the lust, and the imperfections of character actor.

[12:18] Lewis J. Stadlen: I have been mired in this condition for the past 55 years.

[12:22] Lewis J. Stadlen: That's not to say that during intervals I haven't attempted to be something else, a sports announcer, a minor league baseball owner, the purveyor of the world's tastiest hamburger.

[12:34] Lewis J. Stadlen: But when I think about it, isn't that what a character actor is supposed to do?

[12:39] Lewis J. Stadlen: Attempt to be someone else.

[12:45] Lewis J. Stadlen: I am beginning to feel totally estranged from popular culture.

[12:51] Lewis J. Stadlen: I have never heard of most of the stars currently populating the theatrical firmament.

[12:57] Lewis J. Stadlen: The moment one leaves them, leaves a Broadway musical that I have no intention of seeing, the bottom falls off and the show closes.

[13:06] Lewis J. Stadlen: But if you ask me who stood by for Ethel Merman and Gypsy in 1959, I can pull that name out of my ass in a millisecond.

[13:16] Lewis J. Stadlen: Jane Romano.

[13:18] Lewis J. Stadlen: Those were the days when theater was my specialty.

[13:35] Lewis J. Stadlen: Two jobs I believe to be no brainers were snatched from my grasp by a pair of actors with unarguably greater name recognition.

[13:46] Lewis J. Stadlen: Four years ago, I had triumphed in the role of Gregory Solomon in Arthur Miller's The Price at the Gate Theater in Dublin.

[13:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: I was the first American actor to be fitted with the island's equivalent of the Tony, the Irish Times Theatre Award.

[14:02] Lewis J. Stadlen: For four months, I was the toast of Dublin.

[14:05] Lewis J. Stadlen: Adulations I had not experienced since I had made my Broadway debut playing Groucho Marx and Minnie's Boys when I was 23.

[14:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: I read in the New York Times that the Roundabout Theater is planning a Broadway revival of the price.

[14:21] Lewis J. Stadlen: And although I have been an actor of limited ambition these past few decades, the role of Gregory Solomon is one I would very much want to recreate in front of a New York audience.

[14:33] Lewis J. Stadlen: My friend Nathan Lane was kind enough to write a letter to the powers that be at the Roundabout, imploring them to cast me in the role.

[14:42] Lewis J. Stadlen: Doug Hughes, who directed The Price in Dublin, and who was here tonight, employed them to offer me the role in New York.

[14:51] Lewis J. Stadlen: Terry Kinney, who had previously and successfully directed me in the off-Broadway Blake Checkers at the Vineyard Theater, is scheduled to direct.

[15:00] Lewis J. Stadlen: It was an absolute no-brainer until I heard the news that Danny DeVito has been cast as the 89-year-old, very Jewish furniture salesman who made me the Toast of Dublin.

[15:15] Lewis J. Stadlen: I love Danny DeVito, but not in that part.

[15:21] Lewis J. Stadlen: I consoled myself into thinking that if David Burns, who had originated the role, were alive today, the Roundabout Theater wouldn't have cast him either.

[15:31] Lewis J. Stadlen: What do you expect? It's the Roundabout.

[15:34] Lewis J. Stadlen: Several weeks later, I read about an upcoming Broadway revival of Hello, Dolly!, to be directed by my old friend Jerry Zaks, who I have worked with six times over the course of 26 years.

[15:47] Lewis J. Stadlen: The producer is Scott Rudin, who produced my last two Broadway shows, Fish in the Dark and The Front Page.

[15:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: In the midst of previews for The Front Page, I received a late-night email from Scott Rudin telling me that he and the incomparable costume designer Anne Roth were in agreement that I am a comic genius.

[16:12] Lewis J. Stadlen: I am not a comic genius.

[16:15] Lewis J. Stadlen: The star of the revival of Hello, Dolly! will be Bette Midler, who I have known since we first appeared in concurrent original productions of Fiddler on the Roof, Bet on Broadway, and me and the First National Touring Company.

[16:29] Lewis J. Stadlen: Bette, being a show business icon, is certain to sell a million tickets, meaning there is no need for Scott Rudin to compliment her with another celebrity in the co-starring role of Horace Vandergelder.

[16:41] Lewis J. Stadlen: A role I have performed in three separate productions, and for which I have been lauded by many an out-of-town critic as the funniest Horace Vandergelder since the original aforementioned David Burns.

[16:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: I have performed the role in St. Louis, directed by Leroy Reams, in Houston, directed by Leroy Reams, and in Boca Raton, directed and starring Leroy Reams.

[17:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Highly eye-popping venues for those who make decisions on the Great White Way.

[17:20] Lewis J. Stadlen: Several weeks after that, I was told that I had been put on the short list for the role of Horace Vandergelder.

[17:29] Lewis J. Stadlen: Now, the short list is the equivalent of an actor being confined to house arrest in Branson, Missouri.

[17:37] Lewis J. Stadlen: Only being accused of giving an intelligent reading at an audition is a worse fate than being put on the short list.

[17:45] Lewis J. Stadlen: Within the week, I was informed that David Hyde Pierce had been cast in the role of Horace Vandergelder.

[17:53] Lewis J. Stadlen: I love David Hyde.

[17:56] Lewis J. Stadlen: But not in that part.

[18:24] Lewis J. Stadlen: And I am once again being placed on the shortlist.

[18:29] Lewis J. Stadlen: Does performing on the road interest me? I told him it depends on who they cast as Dolly and how much money they'd be willing to pay.

[18:37] Lewis J. Stadlen: Two weeks later came the announcement that Betty Buckley has been chosen to play Dolly, and my head exploded.

[18:47] Lewis J. Stadlen: I decided I deserved a primal scream.

[18:51] Lewis J. Stadlen: I rushed off a text to my director friend Jerry Zaks.

[18:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: Jerry, I'm taking myself off the short list.

[18:59] Lewis J. Stadlen: Now that you have cast the hilarious Betty Buckley as Dolly Levi, I don't believe I could keep up with her comedically.

[19:07] Lewis J. Stadlen: I suggest you cast Michael Moriarty as David.

[19:18] Lewis J. Stadlen: Two weeks later, they offered me the part.

[19:27] Laurence Maslon: One thing, Lewis, that I'm always aware of, you mentioned David Burns, is how much you honor the people who came before you.

[19:36] Laurence Maslon: And I know one of them is Sam Levine.

[19:39] Laurence Maslon: And I saw Sam Levine in the first real revival of The Royal Family back in the 70s.

[19:44] Laurence Maslon: I'm gonna read a little about this.

[19:46] Laurence Maslon: This is Eva Le Gallienne's character, who I'm sure you all know, Fanny Cavendish.

[19:51] Laurence Maslon: Someone says, "My public is in New York." And she says, "I'm not like you, Bertie. I've been a trooper all my life, and I'm going to keep on trooping.

[19:59] Laurence Maslon: I'd rather pack them in into a tent in Texas than play highbrow matinees at the Teacup Theater in New York.

[20:07] Laurence Maslon: I was Fanny Cavendish then, just as I am now.

[20:10] Laurence Maslon: And you had to know how to act.

[20:13] Laurence Maslon: People knew what they were going to see when I was on the stage in those days.

[20:18] Laurence Maslon: So there may be a kind of maybe a flip in how we understand the history of American drama that touring, certainly in the teens and twenties, and in Fanny Cavendish's world, was more exalted.

[20:33] Laurence Maslon: It was more exciting. You got to see the country.

[20:35] Laurence Maslon: They expected you to come back year after year.

[20:37] Laurence Maslon: New York, you did a run and it was over.

[20:39] Laurence Maslon: But this was a way of communicating your talent on an incredibly vast canvas.

[20:44] Laurence Maslon: Is that something that you would agree with? Is that the charm of the road?

[20:49] Laurence Maslon: Have something very different and very special?

[20:50] Lewis J. Stadlen: I think the charm of the road had its genesis in that when I was 19 years old, I was cast as Mendel the Rabbi's son in the first national company of Fiddler on the Roof.

[21:01] Lewis J. Stadlen: And it was the first time I ever felt successful about myself.

[21:04] Lewis J. Stadlen: And I was lonely, but as the years go by, you romanticize the experience.

[21:10] Lewis J. Stadlen: But I don't need very much.

[21:12] Lewis J. Stadlen: I need some clean sheets every night and some warm towels.

[21:17] Lewis J. Stadlen: And this is a good segue into what I wanted to read next, which is performing on the road is not everyone's cup of tea.

[21:28] Lewis J. Stadlen: Henry Fonda loved the road.

[21:31] Lewis J. Stadlen: Theater luminaries such as Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontanne, John Ethel and Lionel Barrymore, Catherine Cornell and her husband, director Guthrie McClintic spent large portions of their careers touring the hinterlands.

[21:44] Lewis J. Stadlen: It was a common practice for them to pack their wardrobe trunks at the conclusion of a Broadway engagement and spend the next six months to a year touring the country.

[21:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: Mary Martin loved the road.

[21:58] Lewis J. Stadlen: Ethel Merman did not.

[22:00] Lewis J. Stadlen: It was only after learning that she had lost the signature role of Madame Rose in Jerome Robbins' movie Gypsy that Merman signed on to do her first nationwide tour.

[22:11] Lewis J. Stadlen: In the 1950s, during McCarthyism, bankable movie stars such as Melvyn Douglas sought employment in touring companies.

[22:20] Lewis J. Stadlen: The bearded Earl Wrightson and his companion Lois Hunt spent most of their careers touring in roles originated by Alfred Drake and his various leading ladies.

[22:32] Lewis J. Stadlen: The married couple of Biff McGuire and Jeannie Carson spent years as top liners in touring productions while remaining mostly anonymous in terms of national celebrity.

[22:45] Lewis J. Stadlen: My career fits somewhere in the middle.

[22:48] Lewis J. Stadlen: A major reason why I love life on the road has to do with the scarcity of mundane responsibilities that tend to irritate me on a day-to-day existence.

[23:02] Lewis J. Stadlen: There are still bills to be paid and an occasional family matter to attend to, but those have a way of becoming backburner issues.

[23:10] Lewis J. Stadlen: It's hard to track you down when you're constantly in transit.

[23:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Strolling to a newly discovered breakfast nook, engaging in a moderate exercise regimen, reading a lot, with a minimum of distractions, exploring local points of interest, and within walking distance of the theater, all these things help to diminish the scale of annoyances that make me feel fancy-free.

[23:35] Lewis J. Stadlen: A negative fact of life on the road is the absence of any hope toward upward mobility.

[23:42] Lewis J. Stadlen: With the possible exception of a few weeks spent performing in Los Angeles, people in the film and TV industries tend to see theater acting the same way a theater actor might relate to a ballet dancer or a circus performer.

[23:56] Lewis J. Stadlen: It's beautiful to look at, but what the hell does this have to do with me?

[24:01] Lewis J. Stadlen: Careers go into hibernation when performing on the road.

[24:04] Lewis J. Stadlen: Young people who possess the energy of steam shovels occasionally allow themselves off-day excursions to New York to audition for new projects.

[24:14] Lewis J. Stadlen: But for the most part, oldies like myself thrill to the anonymous nature of performing before thousands of people who can do nothing more for your career than appreciate what you're offering them in the present moment.

[24:28] Lewis J. Stadlen: A further negative, if you choose to see it that way, can be the intoxication of those beautiful people living down the hall from your hotel room who surround you in their skimpy costumes and fishnet stockings.

[24:44] Lewis J. Stadlen: I have compromised two marriages by falling in love on the road.

[24:48] Lewis J. Stadlen: That's not to say that I'm not still on the lookout for someone with or without fishnet stockings who falls within an age-appropriate range.

[25:05] Laurence Maslon: Great.

[25:06] Laurence Maslon: One of the things that's fascinating about your memoir is how you stay sane.

[25:12] Laurence Maslon: And since you become a character on your own merits in the book, it's so great to go through town after town and see those specific things you do to ground yourself, to keep your compass centered.

[25:26] Laurence Maslon: What are some of the things that you do, have done when you were younger?

[25:30] Laurence Maslon: Because you toured when you were 19. What are some of the things you come back to that keep you?

[25:36] Lewis J. Stadlen: A big difference, let me tell you.

[25:38] Lewis J. Stadlen: When I did Hello, Dolly! this last time, I was 72 years old.

[25:43] Lewis J. Stadlen: And it was the first time that I was the oldest person in the cast.

[25:49] Lewis J. Stadlen: Usually I work with Leroy Reams, and he's the oldest person in the cast.

[25:55] Lewis J. Stadlen: He's so busy being toasted and roasted on a daily basis that he was unavailable.

[26:02] Lewis J. Stadlen: My regimen is simple.

[26:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Occasionally I'll take a bus to an ethnic neighborhood, which I've heard about bookstores.

[26:18] Lewis J. Stadlen: I'll have lunch.

[26:19] Lewis J. Stadlen: I will go home, I will take a nap at three o'clock, and I will then go over all of my dialogue to make sure that the syntax is there in my brain.

[26:33] Lewis J. Stadlen: And occasionally, when you're in a town where there are other plays and they invite you to a meal, I always say I can't do it because it will interfere with my three o'clock nap.

[26:45] Lewis J. Stadlen: The other thing is that I, as the older that I get, I show up at the theater earlier and earlier.

[26:54] Lewis J. Stadlen: I'm there two hours before, which is interesting because everybody has their own regimen.

[27:07] Lewis J. Stadlen: Who incidentally I know I made a humorous comment about Betty not being funny.

[27:11] Lewis J. Stadlen: But let me tell you something.

[27:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: I had the greatest time with Betty.

[27:14] Lewis J. Stadlen: Betty was brilliant in the role.

[27:16] Lewis J. Stadlen: And Betty is such a great actress that the first day of rehearsal, when Jerry explained to her that this was an optimistic force, she immediately latched on to it.

[27:29] Lewis J. Stadlen: And even though she is not a funny gal offstage, she was very funny in the role as Dolly and sang it brilliantly.

[27:39] Lewis J. Stadlen: And she's such a wonderful actress that in the last scene, on any number of occasions, I thought, you know something?

[27:47] Lewis J. Stadlen: Betty has actually fallen in love with me.

[27:50] Lewis J. Stadlen: And then the curtain hits the decks, and she would go, "Oh God, I ate something, and it was so notion."

[27:58] Lewis J. Stadlen: I thought, now that is great acting.

[28:03] Lewis J. Stadlen: I'm gonna now read about the first strange city that we went to.

[28:09] Laurence Maslon: Just to set the date, roughly when was this?

[28:11] Lewis J. Stadlen: Two, three.

[28:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Obviously.

[28:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Well, this was August 27, 2018.

[28:19] Laurence Maslon: Wow.

[28:20] Lewis J. Stadlen: Okay.

[28:21] Lewis J. Stadlen: We rehearsed for five weeks.

[28:23] Lewis J. Stadlen: Jerry Zaks was omnipresent, which was not the case when I did Nathan Detroit in Guys and Dolls.

[28:30] Lewis J. Stadlen: I think he figured that the principal cast wasn't as talented as the one on Broadway.

[28:36] Lewis J. Stadlen: He didn't have much interest.

[28:37] Lewis J. Stadlen: So he passed it off to Steve Becker, who was the stage manager.

[28:41] Lewis J. Stadlen: This time, Jerry was there every moment.

[28:52] Lewis J. Stadlen: It is the 607th largest city in the United States as of 2017, boasting a population of 65,283, as of the 220 census.

[29:07] Lewis J. Stadlen: It is smack dab in the middle of the state of New York, 245 miles from downtown Manhattan. After a five-hour bus ride, we pull into downtown Utica at four in the afternoon. Several members of the cast have chosen to stay at a holiday inn within shouting distance of the New York throughway. The holiday inn is the least expensive of the two company housing options in Utica. Company members are given two to three housing options in every city. Most of the company will be staying at the Delta Hotel, a five block walk to the Stanley Theater, where we will be doing technical rehearsals for Hello, Dolly! Because I am one of the show's two stars, I will be staying two blocks east at the Double Tree, along with Jerry Zaks and several members of the design team.

It is far and away the tallest building in Utica and appears from the street to be a grand old dame of a hotel. A plaque by the main entrance says it's been around since 1912. Most of the time, I am enamored with old things. As I drag my two heavy suitcases up a set of stairs to the lobby, I'm struck by the absence of a bellhop who might assist me with my luggage. This is a sure sign of the disparity between a first-class hotel and a dump. But once inside the lobby, the joint is jumping. Couples dressed in tuxedos and cocktail dresses occupy every inch of lobby floor space. A female vocalist and an overamplified combo are attempting to compete with the din reverberating off the hotel's 1912 plaster walls.

After 245 miles on the quiet bus, I have walked into a Mardi Gras. These Utica folks sure know how to party. I asked the woman at the reception desk if this is the norm for a Monday afternoon in Utica. Oh no, she says, this doesn't happen much at all. My contract states that the company will provide me with a one-bedroom hotel suite in every city. When I last toured with The Producers from 2002 through 2004, I was put up at the Four Seasons or a Ritz Carlton whenever possible. Many of the suites were so luxurious, they embarrassed me. It's evident that there are no Four Seasons or Ritz Carltons in Utica. I'm fine with my modest digs as long as they are comfortable, aesthetically inoffensive, and include the amenities that I associate with a decent hotel.

At first glance, unlike my modest Utica suite, I like my modest Utica suite. It has an attractive, refurbished bathroom with a floor-to-ceiling sliding shower door, plenty of counter space for my numerous medications, a comfortable queen-size bed, two flat-screen TVs, and just enough closet space to store my multi-seasonal wardrobe. The view from my seven-story window includes a bank, a post office, and a sliver of Genesee Street, Utica's main drag. When it comes to Utica hotels, it doesn't appear to get any swankier than the Double Tree.

[32:29] Lewis J. Stadlen: Wally Dunn and Rich Rosensweig pick me up at my hotel and we Uber to Del Monaco's Italian Steakhouse. Rich has assumed the responsibility of searching the better eateries as we move through the hinterland. Del Monaco's Italian Steakhouse is the perfect antidote to the landscape we have left behind. It's unpretentious and welcoming. The walls are covered with autographed eight by tens of every Italian crooner to have visited Utica. The velvet tones of Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Vic Damone, and Jerry Vale are piped unobtrusively through the sound system. Our friendly pregnant waitress's belly is so pronounced, one hopes she won't go into labor between Messa Salad and the Ravioli States. She's a week overdue and still on her feet waiting tables.

We are breaking bread with the real folk. Our cheerful waitress is putting one of Utica's gastronomic specialties, chicken riggies and greens, moho slang for rigatoni shells, a pasta dish that is soaked in mozzarella cheese or whatever else you want to soak it in. We decide to take a pass. In a matter of days, we will have to fit into our costumes. After dinner, I return to my hotel to discover that Utica's partying elite has disappeared from the lobby like Brigadoon into the mist. It's as if one stage set has been replaced by another. The musician's makeshift stage has given way to several circular pieces of worn lobby furniture. Day-old copies of the Wall Street Journal and USA Today are scattered about on several end tables.

The once hopping bar has been transformed into a do-it-yourself breakfast nook filled with coffee condiments. Beside it stand two unsightly vending machines that dispense toiletries, potato chips, candy bars, and soft drinks. It's clear that when it comes to hotel amenities, you are on your own. One more little thing. We opened in Cleveland. That was our big national opening. It's opening night. After five days of rehearsing during the day and performing at night, we officially open on Friday and acquit ourselves in fine fashion. Anticipating our opening night party, the ladies are dressed to the nines, as are the men. I can only hope that one of their mothers or grandmothers is divorced or widowed.

On my half-mile walk to the opening night party in a restaurant in a renovated bank building, I find myself walking alongside the brilliant Santo Loquasto, who I believe appreciates and resents my performance at the same time. I thank him for the wonderful costumes he has designed and tell him how I'm looking forward to inhabiting the role of Horace Vandergelder in the year ahead. It belongs to you now, he tells me. Try not to wreck it.

[35:44] Laurence Maslon: I guess also, Fanny Cavendish, you've toured several times in different productions that there are places that feel like second homes to you that you get nostalgic about, but you're tremendously fond. So there's also probably a bittersweet feeling of going to a place that you loved and seeing how it's changed. What are some of your favorite cities on your tour?

[36:10] Lewis J. Stadlen: Give me a suite at the Chase Park Plaza, and I never want to leave. That's all I need in my life. I played Washington nine times, a lot of times at the Kennedy Center, once at the Arena Stage, once at Ford's Theatre. I played Houston seven times, once with Mickey Rooney and The Sunshine Boys. It was the Mickey Rooney adaptation of The Sunshine Boys. Freely adapted would be my guess. Oh, here was I have to tell you this Mickey Rooney story, sorry, sir. We're rehearsing with Donald O'Connor, who's playing the Sam Levine part, and Mickey is playing Jack Elvis, Walter Matthau, whatever. And the half hour comes, no Mickey. Donald was all dressed up, he's dressed up. And he's known Mickey and hates him for 35 years.

And I hear a scream from the parking lot. We're at the Debbie Reynolds rehearsal studio in the valley in Los Angeles. We're rehearsing in LA. It's going to be 16 one-weekers. And screaming, screaming, and all of a sudden the screaming gets softer and softer, not softer and soft of a closer and closer. And Mickey.

[37:27] Lewis J. Stadlen: And for five minutes, he's spouting stuff that sounds like an improvisation of the first scene. And I figure, oh, he's improvising. And he does it for about five minutes. And then he runs out of gas. He never introduces himself. He never introduces himself to the kids. And at the end of the rehearsal day, I say to people, I feel like I'm coming down with something. And does anybody know a doctor so they can give me some antibiotics? Because I want to knock this thing right out. And Mickey said, Why don't you let me take a look at this? I said, Well, why would I do that? I need a doctor. He said, Why was it very nearly a doctor? I said, What? And a doctor killed that? Were you assisting? Louis.

Yeah, Lou Asley. And not knowing how crazy he was. I said, I have to tell you, Mick, if I was being wheeled into the operating room, I looked up, and just before I was going out with Ethan, I see a Mickey Rooney who's going to operate on me. I don't know how good I feel about that. Tears come down his cheek, and he said to me, What are you talking about? Well, I was very nearly a great surgeon.

[39:11] Laurence Maslon: Let me ask you one question based on that. When you did Hello, Dolly!, as you said, you were one of the two stars. There were people on the bus and the company that knew you, that had seen you, that clearly revered you. But when you started, right, you started in Fiddler on the Roof as a young person getting your first big shot during the youngest.

[39:34] Lewis J. Stadlen: Yes, 19. And among the places you went that you told me about, probably the strangest must have been Las Vegas. And then you had a star come in halfway through that experience. I was wondering if you might share that perspective with us.

[39:51] Lewis J. Stadlen: I did it for nine months with Luther Adler. And Luther shamefully walked through it. He had done it two years, and he wanted to show everybody how bored he was. But two performances, but a matinee was played by Paul Ives, who was marvelous. He was wonderful, Teddy. Now we're in Oklahoma City, and they decide we're gonna be one of the first shows to play Las Vegas, Caesars Palace. But Paul Ives is no name. So they get Theodore McKellen, and while we're in Oklahoma City, we're doing the real show, the three-hour version at night, and we're rehearsing the hour and a half tab version during the day. So we go to Las Vegas, and I'm 19 in Theodore McKellen. I have to tell you that the great star Theodore McKellen, they would have I would hear advertisements on the radio, come to Caesars Palace and see the World International World's International Star Theater of Bickle.

Alright, we're playing Caesars Palace. It's not like it is today. The mob was still in control, which is it was sexy, it was glorious, in a frightening sort of a way. It wasn't like pigeon fork. We're all in the dressing room, and the man who's the head of the entertainment department, I think his name is like Dave Goldstein. And he comes in, very sweet, very nice, very nice. And he said, I just want to welcome you to Caesars Palace and tell you that the next thing that you have to do, and we will hire a bus, is take you down to Sheriff Lamb's office and get you fingerprinted, so you can get a sheriff's card to make sure that there's no underhanded underworld influence in Las Vegas. And he leaves.

[41:46] Lewis J. Stadlen: And he says, I have to tell you that this is a direct violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And I am suggesting, as the head of this company, that we do not get on that bus and we take a stand. And I'm like, yeah, oh wow. Theodore was like, no, this is a story moment. This is a great political moment. A few days go by. Same natty guy comes in. Apparently, there's been a misunderstanding. I think you think that it was a voluntary situation to go to Sheriff Lamb's. If you want to work at Caesars Palace, you gotta do that. And then Theodore said, But I've done a little research, and not every other hotel on the strip is demanding this. It's just a fit of fabulous Flamingo in you. That's right.

It's the fabulous Flamingo in us. But if you want to work here, you have to get the sheriff's card. He leaves. And Theodore says, I'm telling you, this is a direct contradiction of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and I suggest that we take a stand. The next day, this natty little man comes in and goes, I think there's been a misunderstanding. You're gonna get on that fucking bus or I'm gonna put you on that bus to the airport.

[43:32] Lewis J. Stadlen: Men, women, we're gonna grab you off the streets. We're gonna accuse you of solicitation. Get on that bus, and that's the last time I'm coming in here. He leaves, and there's a silence. And Theodore says, even though it is the new idea, that's great. I want to make sure we have some time for questions, but you have a section on the right. Which is one of my favorite cities. And this is August 6th to the 11th, 2019. We have one more show. We have one more stop, and that's Boston for two weeks, and then Betty and I and half the company are gone. From the age of 13, I dreamt of tossing off the shackles of parental tyranny and hopping on a train to Pittsburgh. I liked how the name Pittsburgh rolled off my tongue, guttural and perfunctory.

And since nobody I knew had ever been to Pittsburgh, I could get lost there, and no one would have the slightest idea where to find me. Fantasy implications aside, the city remained a mystery until I was introduced to the enchanting WPIX weather girl, Gloria B. O'Conn, who was from Pittsburgh and spoke lovingly of her hometown. In 1960, my father had his own half-hour weekday children's television show. He portrayed kindly old Captain Alan Swift, Alan Swift being his professional name, who would introduce several generations of Popeye the Sailor cartoons. After my parents' divorce, my dad would pick me up in Queens on alternate weekends and drive me to the Daily News building on 42nd Street, where he would perform the Friday night show on a three-pronged set that included Captain Alan Swift's Sea Shanty and the WPIX 6 o'clock news, starring Kevin McCarthy and the WPIX Weather Girl, Pittsburgh's own Gloria O'Conn.

From our first meeting, I was flat out in love with Gloria, who I hoped might ditch her family and come live with us on my alternate weekends. Not only was she warm and kind, but she was also a rabid Pittsburgh Pirates fan, who spoke lovingly of Gino Somoli and Bill Masarowski, Smoky Burgess and Vinegar Ben Mysell. Gloria and Pittsburgh personified the freedom of the open road. All of this was met with incredulity whenever I spoke of Pittsburgh to those who had never been there. To dampen my expectations, I was shown photographs of the city's downtown landscape where as late as the 1950s, choking air pollution from the steel mills had turned the downtown days line from day to night. All evidence to the contrary, I was not to be denied.

While others dreamed of Paris and the far-flung corners of the Orient, I only wanted to escape the misery of junior high school and migrate to Pittsburgh. In 1969, during my second tour with Fiddler on the Roof, my dream came true. In the intervening years, I have played the city of Pittsburgh on eight separate occasions.

[47:10] Laurence Maslon: Of any kind, I'm sure.

[47:13] Lewis J. Stadlen: Yes, sir. Having gone through this last tour. Would you do it again?

[47:21] Lewis J. Stadlen: Listen, between us, I dedicated and spoke to Jerry Zaks, hoping he would put me in the national company of the Music. And there's no National Company of the Music. Does that answer your question? No, I dedicated to it because I love the daily. Yes, I would love to do it, a small part. Donna McPhakney, when I was 19, Donna was doing an affiliate in the national company of Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. And she told a story about what's his name. I mentioned it the other day. Eddie Brad. Three names. Every Horton was playing Erroneous. He was in his late 80s. And he would had a chair in the wings. Because he was afraid of missing his entrance. And when I did the front page, Bobby Morse did the same thing.

He sat in the wings. He didn't want to miss the entrance. So if I do another one, part of my contract will be a chair. Because I don't want to miss my entrance. No, I love it. The one I'm done. I really am. I'm writing a novel. If I could play the professor in Uncle Vanya, somebody wants to offer me that gig, that I'll do. The last thing I did was I played Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman in a regional theater in Michigan. And it was a very good production. Fortunately, I didn't have to do it twice in one day. I don't think I could have done it twice in one day. If you're going to do it right, there's no walking through that part. But I would pray a half hour after the performance, after my body felt like it was decomposing, whether I would recover in time to play Willie Loman, the following performance. And at that point I thought, gee, Willie Loman. That's a good way to make my exit. Other questions?

[49:19] Laurence Maslon: Yes, in the back. When did you know you wanted to be an actor?

[49:24] Lewis J. Stadlen: I knew I wanted to be an actor when I went to a theater camp called Gray Gable's Theatrical Work Workshop. It was a small theater camp, only about 65 campers. It was in Kichuan, New York, which is near Austin. And I was cast as Petroleum the artist in Guy Bolton's Anastasia. And for the first time I realized I was good at something. And also I realized that girls who wanted to have nothing to do with me, all of a sudden, I don't know, they looked more kindly on me. And I thought, this doesn't seem like a bad avenue to do anything. So that's when I did. But I was a great lover of the theater. My father used to, one of our bonding experiences was when the variety was basically only at the theater newspaper.

On Wednesday we come out, and he would read me over the phone the grossest of all the theaters. And I knew every one of them by heart. I knew, I knew that the Unsinkable Molly Brown was doing 55,000. So when he said 57, I went, Oh, what up to? Wow. I was fascinated. How old were you at that time?

[50:38] Laurence Maslon: I was probably around 13, but I didn't have the confidence. And the other thing is, I was full of confidence after I went to that theater camp. And then I studied with Sanford Meisner, and he told me that I had no rights to be in the theater or to be an actor. It's once you go, and I tell I give you one other example. When we were doing Anastasia, and we were all 14. Mana Hefflin, I don't know if you remember her, she played it in Anastasia. She was one. While we were talking, doing a scene, a book fell on the floor. And we looked at it in horror. And we went on with a scene. And when it was over, the director, who was wonderful, a young woman named Helena Melding, she said, now, if you were in real life and a book fell on the floor, the first thing you do is you pick up a book.

Now I mention this because I spent a year and a half at a neighborhood playhouse, and I never learned anything as important as that. And then fortunately, I uh very fortunately, I studied with Stella Adler. And what Stella Adler taught me, which it was the reality school. She said you have to know what side of the political equation you're on. And I went, oh, that's interesting. I'm interested in politics. So I want to know what side of the political equation I'm on. It clarifies things. So that when you're playing Harris Vaneghiller believes in the law because he's a man of property, and that's what the law does. It protects property. Dolly Lena, she didn't believe in the law. She's gone hand to mouth. She's and she believes in abundance and having a wonderful life. So what Stella Adler taught me just that one thing. There's a craft element that I use for every play that I've ever been to.

[52:37] Laurence Maslon: Why don't you take us home from the question?

[52:40] Lewis J. Stadlen: Yeah. What is the meaning of Hello Dolly? Having performed in both The Matchmaker and Hello Dolly, I believe Hello Dolly, the more entertaining and coherent vehicle. Jerry Herman was one of the last optimistic Broadway composers. He chose to musicalize The Matchmaker and produced a buoyant and dare I say tuneful score. His song of love was not a sad song. The message was that if you're lucky enough to bump into the right person at the right time, you may generate enough optimism to avoid making a muck of things. To dance is to release enough endorphins to get you through the rigors of the day. There are few substitutes for tripping the light fantastic. To put on your Sunday clothes is to realize you're better than you've given yourself credit for.

To bore into the most calcified heart is to perform a public service. To bend the rules is the first step toward liberating yourself from conformity. To treat yourself to earthly abundance, ignoring the cost is to embrace the act of living. To recognize your own folly is to connect your brain to your heart. To seduce is to know you still got an idiot. To sing is to elevate the act of communication. Forget the rest of the tea. There's nothing more than music without a melody. And to fall in love is a significant act of courage. I got into this business to work with the best in my profession. Talent is all. It doesn't matter if you're a jerk. Everyone is a jerk at times. Hello, Dolly allowed me to spend a year in close proximity with those at the top of their game.

It gave me permission to love thyself. Oh, it was nerve-wracking at times, but no pain, no gain. Hello, Dolly will remain in the American musical comedy canon, no matter how many articles are written about how retrograde its dramatization of human relations is. It will forever make people tear up when an actress impersonating a diva or a diva impersonating an actress descends a stage center staircase in a red evening gown and tells eleven uniformed waiters that if time and space allowed, she would take every one of them to her breast. Ignore the naysayers. The message of Hello Dolly is that there is hope for us all.

[55:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we're back having learned some history.

[55:27] David Rigano: Yeah. Some big Broadway history.

[55:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And having a lot of laughs.

[55:31] David Rigano: Truly, it was a night, and it was a crowd, too. It was an amazing crowd. And he had them in the that's something else when you have someone with this kind of history. He had the audience in the palm of his hand.

[55:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and it was one I remember just watching never knowing where a story was going to go, and then having it get there, yes, be completely flabbergasted and surprised. But also just having the time of my life, it was fun. And it when you work on a show and there's especially if there's one like older cast member who's really been around the block, and you're sitting on breaks or in the dressing rooms or whatever, and you just start hearing all of these theater war stories. That's what it felt like.

[56:19] David Rigano: Oh, truly. It was it was wonderful. And it reminded me, because as I said, that Hello Dolly, seeing it on Broadway was my first experience with the show. Is that I don't, as much as I think I know my Broadway history, I don't always. And so we all got blind spots.

[56:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. And so we can't all be Jen Tepper.

[56:38] David Rigano: No. Truly, I history I was never good at. But science I was.

[56:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Really?

[56:44] David Rigano: Yeah. And so I was very happy to know that there was a book that is scientifically based. Uh-huh. That teaches us a bit about our Broadway history.

[56:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[56:52] David Rigano: And that is what we're gonna jump into in our next episode.

[56:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You're referring to the periodic table of Broadway musicals.

[56:58] David Rigano: Oh, I so am. And that was such a fun night, and I cannot wait to discuss it.

[57:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Is that especially because the special guest that they brought with them?

[57:08] David Rigano: The surprise special guest that we had that I didn't know about until a week before.

[57:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, that was part of it. Also, the book is amazing, and we're gonna chat about that.

[57:18] David Rigano: So remember, follow us on Instagram at Drama Book Show Podcast. Please subscribe to the Drama Bookshop on Eventbrite so that you can be notified when we add new events to the calendar. Give us a rating and review because it does help and it helps with things like algorithms and other rhythms out there. And remember that all the books we talk about can be found here at the Drama Bookshop. And so can we. And we will see you at the bookshop.