This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to The Drama Book Show.

[0:20] David Rigano: My name is David Rigano.

[0:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we're here to talk about Why Be a 9 When You Can Be a 10.

[0:27] David Rigano: Yeah, by Salisha Thomas.

[0:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Salisha's fantastic.

[0:31] David Rigano: She is just a firecracker.

[0:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Walked in here just a bundle of joy, and it spread through every one of us. We were so excited to see her.

[0:39] David Rigano: She came in here however many months before this event, and she came up to the desk and was like, "Hey, I'm in a Broadway show, and I wrote a book. Can you carry it here?"

[0:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I was like, those are pretty much two of the only requirements.

[0:56] David Rigano: So the amount of time we get that, like those questions of "Hey, I did this, can this come here?" There's so many.

[1:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But it is nice when we can make it happen.

[1:03] David Rigano: Yeah. And then I was in like a just like you're saying, I loved her energy so much, and she was telling me, "I have this podcast, The Salisha Show, and I interview Broadway people, and I was in Once Upon a One More Time, and I wrote this book called Why Be a 9 When You Can Be a 10."

[1:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was like, you should probably do an event here.

[1:22] David Rigano: And Once Upon a One More Time got me because I saw that I think three times.

[1:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Wow.

[1:27] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I only saw it the one time.

[1:30] David Rigano: I went during previews, I went after it opened, and I went to the week it closed.

[1:36] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I had so much fun.

[1:37] David Rigano: Like it was a show that was smarter than it needed to be.

[1:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[1:41] David Rigano: It delved into things that when you go into a show, I expect, especially a jukebox show, particularly a jukebox show about one person's writing, and that person being Britney Spears.

[1:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I wasn't expecting the depth that this show would go.

[1:53] David Rigano: And I wasn't expecting some of the characters.

[1:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:56] David Rigano: I wasn't expecting Betty Friedan.

[1:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:59] David Rigano: And honestly, Justin Guarini.

[2:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: What? I have watched that video of him doing "Circus" over and over again.

[2:08] David Rigano: To the point that I went and listened to the actual song, which I hadn't before.

[2:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[2:18] David Rigano: Which I think was like short of because I wasn't really an American Idol.

[2:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Right.

[2:24] David Rigano: But you didn't watch From Justin to Kelly?

[2:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I knew of it.

[2:28] David Rigano: That one somehow flew by my radar screen.

[2:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I knew of him, but I was that before American Idiot.

[2:35] David Rigano: See, I saw him in American Idiot.

[2:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay.

[2:38] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Then maybe I had seen him in that already before I saw Women on the Verge.

[2:43] David Rigano: But again, like American Idiot was like, let's get pop people because we're doing a pop album.

[2:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And seeing him in Women on the Verge, I was like, oh, look at this musical theater guy.

[2:53] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: With this gorgeous voice being funny.

[2:57] David Rigano: And then he was just endlessly charming.

[3:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And can he such an asshole?

[3:02] David Rigano: Dance.

[3:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And yeah.

[3:03] David Rigano: My God.

[3:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like again, it's that number.

[3:05] David Rigano: I've watched the Good Morning America footage.

[3:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I've watched the rehearsal footage.

[3:08] David Rigano: Like everything of that number of "Circus."

[3:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I did it again.

[3:14] David Rigano: Uh-huh.

[3:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[3:15] David Rigano: Was so delightful.

[3:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Just there's that level of being in on the joke with someone, and he gave that to us.

[3:24] David Rigano: Yeah.

[3:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I've never been a Britney Spears fan.

[3:27] David Rigano: Like I didn't go in there knowing I knew one song because I had to learn that song for Encore.

[3:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: The famous audition for Into the Woods, where we sang Britney Spears.

[3:33] David Rigano: Yeah.

[3:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But I didn't know anything else.

[3:35] David Rigano: I knew "Oops! I Did It Again."

[3:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I knew "Toxic."

[3:38] David Rigano: I knew "Hit Me Baby One More Time."

[3:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And you hit me baby one more time.

[3:41] David Rigano: I'm a terrible gay.

[3:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So I did not know that.

[3:43] David Rigano: And so going into it, it was like new songs for me.

[3:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Y'all can do the math.

[3:49] David Rigano: My senior year of high school.

[3:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay.

[3:52] David Rigano: So we had a warm-up to it in my dance class.

[3:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Right.

[3:58] David Rigano: And we snuck the violin riff from it into our production of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

[4:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I remember dancing to it at the party when I got my first ARP check.

[4:16] David Rigano: But also a friend of mine, I mentioned to a friend of mine that Salisha was an understudy in Once Upon a One More Time.

[4:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Every role.

[4:22] David Rigano: Multiple roles.

[4:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[4:24] David Rigano: And so my friend was like, I'm trying to even remember who said this to me.

[4:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But they were like, oh, I probably saw her go on then because I saw the show when so many people were out that they didn't have enough understudies to fill all the roles, and understudies were pulling multiple tracks and there were holes in ensemble numbers.

[4:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, no, I'm sure I probably saw too because I know there was definitely nights where I saw multiple understudies.

[4:48] David Rigano: But yeah, I don't think I saw any understudies.

[4:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, I wish we had an album for that.

[4:53] David Rigano: I had so much fun.

[4:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: The arrangements were so much fun.

[4:56] David Rigano: They were really cool.

[4:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And like a side note, like a bit of trivia.

[4:59] David Rigano: Did you know that John Hartmere, who wrote the book for Bear, wrote the book for this?

[5:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I do not, but I'm not surprised that you know that.

[5:07] David Rigano: I didn't know that until I got there, and I was looking at the programs, and I'm like, whoa.

[5:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Because I always wondered, because I was such a Bear fan, that I always wondered what happened to John after that.

[5:15] David Rigano: And then I was like, oh, he went and did this.

[5:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That makes sense.

[5:18] David Rigano: I saw the show with former podcast guest, Haley St. James.

[5:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, amazing.

[5:24] David Rigano: We went to see it together.

[5:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Very fun.

[5:26] David Rigano: And that was one that I think specifically, because there was obviously so much Max Martin in it.

[5:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: As soon as I had the extra ticket, I was like, there's only one person in this world who I can ask to.

[5:38] David Rigano: I was like, I will enjoy it more with Haley next to me.

[5:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Understandably, yeah, that's amazing.

[5:45] David Rigano: Especially because like you were saying, like, I'm not someone who knows a lot of pop music.

[5:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm not someone who knows a lot of Britney Spears.

[5:51] David Rigano: So I knew also that Haley would have a better understanding of what they were doing with the music.

[5:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so I would get that energy at least, if not like the having the actual knowledge.

[6:04] David Rigano: No, that makes sense.

[6:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It just I had so much fun.

[6:07] David Rigano: And a lot of that joy continued on with meeting Salisha.

[6:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[6:12] David Rigano: And just that she really is a 10.

[6:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[6:15] David Rigano: She really is.

[6:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She walks into a room and she is a 10, and everyone around her becomes tens.

[6:20] David Rigano: It's about reaching your fullest potential.

[6:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Truly.

[6:23] David Rigano: And not like falling short of what you but she acknowledges like when you have to be a nine or an eight in order to be able to be a 10 when you're gonna have to.

[6:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So like it's she even at one point, and you'll hear it in the episode, references building or sewing 200 dresses for Real Women, because Real Women was still open when we recorded this, and you can hear us screaming in the background because we were so excited.

[6:54] David Rigano: I actually messaged Florencia Cuenca, who is in Real Women at that moment.

[6:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm like, yo, someone just dropped your show or name dropped your show in the podcast I'm recording.

[7:04] David Rigano: Yeah, it was a really magical night.

[7:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But let's jump in and let her talk about it.

[7:08] David Rigano: Yeah, let's do that.

[7:09] Salisha Thomas: Um, my gosh. Are these on?

[7:12] TyNia René Brandon: Can you hear us?

[7:14] Salisha Thomas: Thank you guys for being here.

[7:17] TyNia René Brandon: Okay, moderating is Ty.

[7:19] Salisha Thomas: This is Ty, you guys.

[7:20] TyNia René Brandon: So Ty is currently in The Lion King right now.

[7:23] Salisha Thomas: I think Salisha's also in The Lion King back there.

[7:26] TyNia René Brandon: Hey girl.

[7:27] Salisha Thomas: She's OBC for Heart of Rock and Roll and also Some Like It Hot.

[7:31] TyNia René Brandon: And we also did Beautiful together.

[7:32] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[7:33] TyNia René Brandon: That's where we met on Broadway.

[7:34] Salisha Thomas: That's where we met.

[7:35] TyNia René Brandon: But the special thing about Ty is she's always been such an amazing performer on stage, an incredible dancer and a singer and an actor, but she also has such a brain for producing and a lot of talents that transfer and translate so well behind the scenes, and she's been producing my podcast and we're turning it into a talk show.

[7:58] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[7:58] TyNia René Brandon: The Salisha Show, and she's like my backbone.

[8:01] Salisha Thomas: You're so sweet. Thank you.

[8:02] TyNia René Brandon: So thank you for helping me.

[8:04] Salisha Thomas: Yeah, of course, of course.

[8:06] TyNia René Brandon: Hi everyone.

[8:07] Salisha Thomas: Hello.

[8:09] TyNia René Brandon: Okay, so Salisha, we're really here to talk about you.

[8:13] Salisha Thomas: Well, we are here to talk about why you can why be a nine when you can be a 10.

[8:19] TyNia René Brandon: Where should we begin?

[8:20] Salisha Thomas: Where would you like to begin?

[8:22] TyNia René Brandon: Because you are already a 10.

[8:24] Salisha Thomas: And in my eyes, you've been a 10 since I met you.

[8:28] TyNia René Brandon: Like we just said before, I met Salisha doing Beautiful, the Carole King musical on Broadway.

[8:34] Salisha Thomas: And as soon as I walked in the door, the first thing I saw in Salisha was, of course, that big smile.

[8:39] TyNia René Brandon: I feel like that's the first thing that most people see when they meet you.

[8:43] Salisha Thomas: And I was like, who is this woman?

[8:45] TyNia René Brandon: Because you never stopped smiling.

[8:47] Salisha Thomas: I know when people first meet me, they're like, "Fake, no way."

[8:47] TyNia René Brandon: No way.

[8:52] Salisha Thomas: And then after five minutes, they're like, "Is she really like this for real?"

[8:55] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[8:56] Salisha Thomas: And you find out very quickly that she is like this all the time.

[8:56] TyNia René Brandon: All the time.

[9:01] Salisha Thomas: It never fades.

[9:02] TyNia René Brandon: Is that true, Andrew?

[9:05] Salisha Thomas: My husband is here.

[9:07] TyNia René Brandon: I would say that it's true.

[9:09] Salisha Thomas: So I want to know from you, Salisha, where did the title of this book come from?

[9:13] Salisha Thomas: And did you believe that you were already a 10 when you wrote it?

[9:17] Salisha Thomas: Okay, so first of all, I think when we think, "Why be a nine when you can be a 10?" what is a 10?

[9:22] Salisha Thomas: A 10 can mean so many different things to different people.

[9:26] Salisha Thomas: To me, it is not perfection.

[9:30] Salisha Thomas: That is what it is not.

[9:31] Salisha Thomas: We are not striving for perfection here.

[9:33] Salisha Thomas: In fact, I think the most beautiful version of a 10 is your most authentic, genuine self, flaws, crevices, and all.

[9:44] Salisha Thomas: I was gonna say wrinkles, but I'm like, I wish I could get Botox right now, but I'm knocked up.

[9:48] Salisha Thomas: I know.

[9:50] Salisha Thomas: I heard a girl saying it.

[9:51] Salisha Thomas: She I used to do Orange Theory, and there was this model.

[9:55] Salisha Thomas: I would always be like, "I'm gonna get these MILFs."

[9:57] Salisha Thomas: And she's you're gonna hear more stuff like that.

[10:02] Salisha Thomas: I'm sorry.

[10:03] Salisha Thomas: I'm gonna get it.

[10:04] TyNia René Brandon: Don't worry, Archie.

[10:05] Salisha Thomas: We won't.

[10:06] TyNia René Brandon: No, I get to be one.

[10:08] Salisha Thomas: She I heard her saying, she was so beautiful, but she's like, "Why be a nine when you can be a 10?"

[10:13] Salisha Thomas: I'm like, what on earth?

[10:14] Salisha Thomas: People say that.

[10:15] Salisha Thomas: And so actually, she was the inspiration behind the title for it.

[10:19] Salisha Thomas: But it really is built, it's born out of not striving for perfection, but your version of what a 10 is.

[10:30] TyNia René Brandon: Can you tell us about a time in your life when you felt like you really transitioned from that nine to a 10 when you woke up and you're like, "Okay, maybe today is not necessarily the day for me. Maybe I am starting today as a nine."

[10:44] TyNia René Brandon: And what did you do to maybe get yourself to that 10?

[10:47] Salisha Thomas: Because that's one of the things I think about when I read your book, and I was looking through it today to get ready for this conversation.

[10:53] Salisha Thomas: And I was like, like I said before, I feel like I met Salisha at a 10.

[10:57] TyNia René Brandon: Energy wise, smile wise, knowledge wise, preparedness wise.

[11:01] Salisha Thomas: And so it really makes me wonder when are the days where you feel like a nine and what pushes you to that.

[11:08] Salisha Thomas: If I'm being honest, there are many days when I don't feel like a nine.

[11:11] Salisha Thomas: I feel like a four.

[11:12] Salisha Thomas: There are a lot of hard days in these streets.

[11:15] TyNia René Brandon: It's especially living in New York.

[11:17] Salisha Thomas: You guys know, like New York can kick you in the face.

[11:20] TyNia René Brandon: It can be hard.

[11:22] Salisha Thomas: The Knicks lost.

[11:23] TyNia René Brandon: I'm still upset.

[11:24] Salisha Thomas: You watch basketball?

[11:25] TyNia René Brandon: I had to watch the Knicks.

[11:28] Salisha Thomas: Don't get me started on other things like elections and things, but life can be really hard in general.

[11:34] Salisha Thomas: So I honestly, the transition between where you are on a natural day to transitioning into being a 10, I really believe it's a mindset.

[11:46] Salisha Thomas: It starts all up here of where are we today?

[11:54] Salisha Thomas: Can we accept where we are today?

[11:56] Salisha Thomas: Can we give ourselves grace?

[11:58] Salisha Thomas: Maybe if you are a four today, you're like, "Maybe that's okay."

[12:03] Salisha Thomas: And I have found in accepting where you are, it's actually pretty empowering instead of trying to show up and being something that you're not or you're not feeling.

[12:15] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[12:15] Salisha Thomas: I used to show up in a lot of rooms feeling like the awkward, like the ugly duckling, like I didn't belong in places that everyone's thinking whatever about me.

[12:32] Salisha Thomas: And it was a very disempowered place to be.

[12:35] Salisha Thomas: I grew up in that mindset.

[12:37] Salisha Thomas: And I'm trying to remember the exact point when I really—

[12:37] TyNia René Brandon: Oh yeah?

[12:46] Salisha Thomas: Okay, say more.

[12:47] Salisha Thomas: And tell okay, so you said you grew up with that mentality of maybe I'm feeling more of a four in this place.

[12:54] Salisha Thomas: And you're from Fresno, California.

[12:57] Salisha Thomas: Fresno, California, same hometown as Audra McDonald.

[12:59] TyNia René Brandon: So she comes.

[13:01] Salisha Thomas: I'm telling you, it's something in the water.

[13:03] TyNia René Brandon: She's in good company.

[13:04] Salisha Thomas: She's rolling with the tens already.

[13:09] TyNia René Brandon: Wait, what were you asking?

[13:10] Salisha Thomas: Okay, so you say you grew up in that mentality of okay, maybe stay in this place of the four, right?

[13:15] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[13:15] Salisha Thomas: But of course you knew that there was more beyond that.

[13:19] Salisha Thomas: Can you say more about that?

[13:21] Salisha Thomas: I think where I grew up, it was cool to fit in.

[13:21] Salisha Thomas: It was cool to be like everybody else.

[13:28] Salisha Thomas: And especially being in a black family with like really just not black neighbors.

[13:35] Salisha Thomas: I was like the one black kid at my school.

[13:35] Salisha Thomas: It's like Black History Month.

[13:39] Salisha Thomas: Everyone turns around when they're talking about slavery, looking at me.

[13:44] Salisha Thomas: I too have been in that room.

[13:45] TyNia René Brandon: They're like, "Oh yeah."

[13:45] TyNia René Brandon: Yikes.

[13:47] Salisha Thomas: And you also know about this too, because you did it as well, like doing a lot of pageants.

[13:52] TyNia René Brandon: This is how it goes.

[13:53] Salisha Thomas: This is how you want to look if you want to be perfect, whatever.

[13:57] Salisha Thomas: I was a pageant title holder in Orange County.

[14:01] TyNia René Brandon: Oh, wow.

[14:02] Salisha Thomas: So in Orange County, California, they had a newspaper one day that I saw, and I thought it was a joke. It was not a joke. The Ku Klux Klan was on the front page and it said, Welcome to the County of Orange, Ku Klux County. I'm like, this is where I live. And it didn't dawn on me why I wasn't well received wherever I went. Some people, once they got to know me, they were so warm and so welcoming. And many were not. And I didn't know why, but there's that landscape of where I went to school, where I grew up. And something happened when I got through those college years, which I still enjoyed college, but when I got off the plane in New York City, I don't even think I realized that my wings had been clipped for decades until I felt what it felt like for my wings to just breathe.

[15:04] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[15:05] Salisha Thomas: I could wear my hair curly.

[15:07] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[15:09] Salisha Thomas: Oh, okay. Speaking of that, so I remember, so like I said, meet Celia and I did Beautiful, the Carol King musical together. And I remember Celicia having a hair epiphany in the dressing room at Beautiful.

[15:24] TyNia René Brandon: Okay.

[15:24] Salisha Thomas: And I want to talk about this in relation to the book because in the first chapter, you talk about expansion. And I feel like you just mentioned that in coming from Fresno and taking your first trip to New York City and realizing, oh my gosh, it's a whole great big, beautiful world out here, and I can be a part of it. And I feel like your hair journey was one of those moments of expansion for you.

[15:39] TyNia René Brandon: Yes?

[15:45] Salisha Thomas: Yeah. Transitioning is hard.

[15:47] TyNia René Brandon: Yes, it is.

[15:48] Salisha Thomas: For those of you who don't know what transitioning is, I said I will stay in transition always and just so transitioning for a black woman in this context is like if you had your hair permed or straightened for your whole life, and now you want to wear your hair naturally curly. There's a period in there where you have to cut off the dead. Some people do a full like fully shave their head. Me. Yes, like they call the big chop. And in that transition, it's like you're not used to what you look like. It's hard. It's like I don't even know who that girl is in the mirror that I see. How can I accept her? I don't even recognize her. And so there were definitely hard times. But yes, in the dressing room at Beautiful, everybody was talking about, oh, I'm getting my hair cut by this guy, Joseph, all this stuff.

And I didn't get to be a part of the conversation because my hair was straight. And they're all getting their curls cut. I felt FOMO. I felt excluded from the conversation. And I just like being one of the girls. I just like to what we're talking about today. That is fun for me. And I couldn't do that. So I really joined the conversation out of FOMO. Got my curls cut and started transitioning in 2018, cold turkey. And some, our hair is so tied to our identity.

[17:08] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[17:09] Salisha Thomas: And I realized, like, when I get to wear my hair like this, this really is who I am.

[17:14] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[17:15] Salisha Thomas: You'll still catch me with a wig. A piece.

[17:18] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, we keep the wigs.

[17:19] Salisha Thomas: We keep all the hair hats, all the pieces. All of the things. But it really does make me feel like. No matter what, if I'm wearing my hair, because it's a beautiful thing as a black woman to be able to transform into whatever we want to look like, whoever we want to be. But underneath all of it, underneath the makeup, the lashes, the wigs, who is that person? Do we like that person? How can we fall in love with that person that maybe we don't show the rest of the world, but we have to come home to every night? So I use that time to be able to fall in love. And it took a lot of it took a long time. And I feel, and just because I was there witnessing you in that moment, I feel like just like I said, it was you were in a period of expansion during that point in time. And you talk.

[18:11] TyNia René Brandon: Yes, and discovery.

[18:11] Salisha Thomas: And you talk about that in the book of really just digging into yourself and finding out how do I feel in this moment? How do I want to present myself? Who do I really want to show people who I am? And while you were going through that with all of us, which was so great because there were there was it was a perfectly mixed cast of people. It was all diversities in the building, which was really cool to have in Beautiful. But Beautiful was also one of the shows on Broadway at the time that really jumpstarted a lot of black people's careers on Broadway. And Celicia and I were two of those people. That's where we got our start. And there were several other natural girls in the dressing room a lot. Yes, all of us going through the same thing. And when you were in that period of expansion and discovery and really finding out who you wanted to present yourself into the world, that is where you developed Black Hair in the Big Leagues, is it not?

[19:08] Salisha Thomas: I think subconsciously, yes. Actually, no, not subconsciously. You're absolutely right. I started my podcast in 2020. And I thought I wanted to feel like I'm backstage in a dressing room.

[19:21] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[19:22] Salisha Thomas: What would I talk about? What could I talk about for hours? Hair. What did we yeah? What did we talk about? Yeah for hours backstage. Yes. Getting to know each other through our hair. Yes. You ask someone about their hair, and it can lead into so many different areas. Boy, did we have a lot of combos. Some great, some scary, some, but some really revealing intimate moments. Do you recall any intimate moments?

[19:50] TyNia René Brandon: Maybe don't tell all your business.

[19:51] Salisha Thomas: You mean backstage? Yeah, yeah. That we had at Beautiful.

[19:55] TyNia René Brandon: I don't I'm trying it was a long time ago.

[19:59] Salisha Thomas: But I do remember feeling ugly for a long time. And being so used to like knowing how to basically dress myself up and drag and be the beauty queen when I needed to be. But can I still feel that when I'm not like in drag? How do I do that with being myself? Sure. That's been a discovery for years. Realizing like and that's how this how my book was born. It's finding her, going on the discovery, realizing you are enough.

[20:36] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[20:37] Salisha Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. Exactly how you are, you are enough. And the day you accept who you are is the day that you actually begin to really glow.

[20:49] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[20:49] Salisha Thomas: Oh, I love that. The day you discover who you are is the day you begin to glow.

[20:52] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[20:53] Salisha Thomas: The day you gotta put that in the next book. The day you see who you really are, you accept that person and show them love.

[21:03] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, it's really hard to beat that person down.

[21:06] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[21:07] TyNia René Brandon: When you're like, wait, but I like her. You'll defend her.

[21:12] Salisha Thomas: Yeah. But if you don't like who you are, if you don't like who in the mirror, when other people tell you lies about yourself, it's easy to believe them. Oh, I am ugly. Oh, I'm not enough. Oh, I'm not good enough. Oh, I didn't get this job because of this reason or that reason. When I worked at Disney and this is in the book, like I had so many reasons why they didn't pick me, why I wasn't the girl, why I couldn't be Tiana. I had a list of reasons. Guess what? None of them were true. Eventually I got that role that I wanted. It was just many years later.

[21:46] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[21:47] Salisha Thomas: Yeah. But for years I told myself all these lies that I believed because I didn't know who I was.

[21:52] TyNia René Brandon: Sure.

[21:53] Salisha Thomas: And didn't accept who I was.

[21:54] TyNia René Brandon: Sure. And another thing that you mention in the book, you have these are actually my two favorite chapters. You have a chapter that that is titled Say Yes to Everything. And it's followed by a chapter that says, say no to everything. And I adore that. Because I, and you mentioned in the prologue, you don't have to read this book in order. You can just go and like touch base with it with whatever you need. And I find myself opening it like I just need a little tin encouragement today. But going along with what you said, you tried several times to go to Disney and be chosen for a role. And you mention in the book showing up for yourself and saying yes to yourself, but also saying no if you have to. Can you talk a little about that?

[22:41] Salisha Thomas: Yes. So say yes to everything. I feel like when you're just getting started in an industry, you're trying to break in, you're trying to meet new people. Sometimes you have to say yes to things that you might not necessarily want to do or you're not sure because you don't even know where you fit. You don't even know what you don't know. So saying yes exposes you to all the different corners of a thing that you have an interest in that you don't really know what's going on. It forces you to meet new people, have new experiences, and you never know. If that random thing that you went to introduced you to your next employer.

[23:21] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[23:22] Salisha Thomas: Introduced you to that person who you're actually like, you know what? Let's start a thing together. Which could easily, especially here in New York, snowball into opportunity after opportunity. And you never know.

[23:36] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[23:37] Salisha Thomas: That reminds me so much like you, I feel like we have so much in common, and I'm even learning more about you right now. I do have so much on the die. So before I started at Beautiful, the Carol King musical, my job was on Disney Cruise Line. So you were working at the Disney Park, and I was working on Disney Cruise Line, and I was on the Wonder 30 forecast, and we were the guinea pigs for Frozen. So the fro, so Frozen the Musical was on the ship. It was out in the parks, and then it was on the ships, and then it came to Broadway. So they had plenty of time to really develop what they wanted. And turns out when I was working on Disney Cruise Line doing Frozen, Josh Prince was my choreographer.

[24:21] TyNia René Brandon: Oh my god.

[24:22] Salisha Thomas: For Frozen. Okay, so Josh Prince was the original choreographer for the Beautiful, the Carol King. Which by the way, I cannot go any further before I acknowledge Gisela Adisa in the audience tonight, who I replaced in the Broadway company of Beautiful. She was the Lucille Lee Charelle track for years. She was there, I think the longest on Broadway. And so I always look up to you. I just can't not say something. But yes. Josh Prince was the original choreographer for Beautiful. That's just we love you and we honor you all the time, every day. We love you and honor you. But yes, so Josh Prince was the choreographer for Frozen on Disney Cruise Line at the time. And he, yes, and he came up to me one day during rehearsal, and he was like, have you ever auditioned for Beautiful?

And I was like, no, Josh, I'm trying to get frozen. Like, I need to understand what's going on in this rehearsal room today. And he was like, oh, okay. And then we just left it alone for a while. But after ultimately, after I finished that contract, he was like, get in touch with me when you're done. And Josh got Beautiful.

[25:24] TyNia René Brandon: Yes, it is.

[25:25] Salisha Thomas: Josh Prince literally got me an appointment for Beautiful, the Carol King musical. I didn't have an agent yet. I didn't have anything. But he worked with me on Disney Cruise Line, and that is how I literally got my national tour debut and my Broadway debut.

[25:41] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[25:42] Salisha Thomas: So saying yes.

[25:43] TyNia René Brandon: Saying yes.

[25:45] Salisha Thomas: In the show.

[25:47] TyNia René Brandon: That is why I know. I know. Isn't it? I think about it a lot. But yes. So in the spirit of saying yes, talk to us about when we gotta say no.

[25:57] Salisha Thomas: Okay. So I am coming up on that season right now of say no to everything. So I'm five months pregnant, okay.

[26:10] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[26:11] Salisha Thomas: Thank you. He did it. He did it.

[26:14] TyNia René Brandon: The culprit is here.

[26:16] Salisha Thomas: The culprit is here.

[26:20] TyNia René Brandon: I don't remember sewing a button for you on these shorts, honey. How are you?

[26:23] Salisha Thomas: Okay, I'll ask later. We're good. We're good. And so I just recently started to slow down. I'm like, whoo, these hills. I live the neighborhood we live in, there's a lot of hills going up these sidewalks. I realize how many places there aren't to sit. There's nowhere to sit in New York. I'm like, I never realized that. How do my parents, they don't like to come to New York and they never really said why. I know why now. I'm like, oh, it's hard here. I'm struggling. And so I try to like make opportunities or like events where I can bring together the people who I want to see. Especially now, because I'm not gonna be able to like be out in these streets. I'm tired. Today I took a two, three hour nap. I started as a 15 minute meditation.

[27:17] TyNia René Brandon: You do guided meditations?

[27:19] Salisha Thomas: I do guided meditations. I also do transcendental meditation.

[27:22] TyNia René Brandon: Oh, what's that?

[27:23] Salisha Thomas: Oh, Alicia is a good idea. Do you know about this, Felicia?

[27:25] TyNia René Brandon: Courtney knows about that.

[27:26] Salisha Thomas: What is that?

[27:26] TyNia René Brandon: I don't know that.

[27:29] Salisha Thomas: Oh it's exclusive, excuse me. It's a cult. No, it's I don't it's pretty transformative. I will say, you don't need electronics, you don't need your phone, you don't need, you just need to be. You just need to breathe and exist. And they teach you, you have to take courses.

[27:58] Salisha Thomas: You close your eyes and you do your thing. And I will say, before I did TM, that's the nickname for it. Yes, I had really bad flight anxiety. Okay. Really bad. And now I still get scared when I'm like, okay, we're gonna die. But overall, it's pretty a lot better. Can we just take note that you were smiling even when you said, okay, we're gonna die? It'd be like that sometimes. But back to the say no to everything. Sometimes you need to protect your energy, your soul, your time. The time is something that we cannot get back. Money, of course, we like New York. I'm poor, I feel poor here. I need some money. But you can make money. When you spend your time, Archie, you can't get your time back.

You can once you spend it, you being here tonight, even though you have the sniffles means so much to me that you're here. I get to see you. And it means so much to me. You're so sweet. So when you spend your time, you can't get it back. You want to make sure that you're spending your time and your energy in places and on people that feel you that feel? I'm just kidding. Come on. Okay. And so when you say no to someone else, even though you don't want to hurt their feelings, you don't want to feel bad, you feel guilty, you're really saying yes to yourself. And if your cup is full, you can give to others. Yes. In a whole different way. What they say on the airplane, put your mask on before you save somebody else.

That's right. Because when you can breathe, now you got all the time in the world to help somebody else breathe. But if you're suffocating, how you gonna help somebody? Exactly. Exactly. When your cup is full and overflowing, it's easy to pour into others. When you fill your cup, this is a different example. When you fill your cup up, telling yourself that you are worthy, you are enough, you are beautiful. It is easy to hand out compliments to others. Absolutely. Look at the haters. Why are they hating? Do they like themselves? What? Whenever somebody is rude to me, oh when somebody breaks me down or like tries to tear me down, I have a lot of compassion for them. Sometimes, sometimes they hurt my feelings, but a lot of times I can see right through it.

[30:19] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[30:25] Salisha Thomas: And I can see that they're hurting. I used to get a lot of flack, and I won't go too far into this, but I used to get a lot of flack for waiting for marriage. And I did, I waited for you. We didn't make it to the altar, but you knew, you knew. But I will say, like, I got a lot of, I was bullied for waiting. But somebody who bullied me, like she had just had an abortion. I knew this about her. And I'm not gonna sit there and tell her how wrong she is for this and that and making me look and feel this small in front of all of our friends. It doesn't make bullying okay. It doesn't make tearing somebody down okay. But when you're hurting, it's easy to hurt others. Sure. And I think what I hear you saying here is that it also takes an incredible amount of discipline to be in that place.

And you talk about this in your book as well. Remaining in this place of filling yourself up with the yeses, telling yourself that you are enough, and that leading you to this path of discipline and saying, This is what I'm here to do. These are the things that I can focus on. These are the things that are going to get me to that next goal, that next step in my life, that next thing that I put on my manifestation board, that next thing that I meditated about in my meditation this morning. Can you talk to us about your path of discipline and how you I think the chapter is called Discipline?

[31:54] Salisha Thomas: Yes, it is. It is. It is. We need some. Point, like, period. Point blank. It's okay. Let's see here. We, a lot of us know what to do. We've heard all the advice. We've heard the oh gosh, the siren is going to sit here for a minute. No, that's okay. I'm like, don't get him or leave. For the sake of the podcast, should I wait? Leave. Oh, it's Mount Sinai. I hope they're saving someone. We've no, we know what to do. We've heard all of the self-help things. Oh, you should do this, you should eat this, you should work that, blah, blah, blah, blah. But do we do all of the things that we know to do? And also, do we give ourselves the opportunity to live out our dreams? And by that, we are so inundated by distractions.

[32:44] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[32:45] Salisha Thomas: I had to leave my phone upstairs. I did too. Because I would have, I'll be like, wait, oh, so and so gonna be late. It is so easy to be distracted, not just by our phones, but by commercials, all the images. Y'all, we live in New York. It is like system overload. You walk outside, the sounds, the visuals, even being in this bookstore. I'm like, I think I need one of these totes.

[33:13] TyNia René Brandon: I know.

[33:14] Salisha Thomas: I've been sitting here, you need a little drama in your life. I know. I've been looking at that one too. It's like just a natural thing to be bombarded with so many messages of you need this, you need that. But I what I have found is when I'm able to meditate, when I'm able to quiet the noise, I'm able to realize wait a minute, we come with everything that we need. It is up to marketing teams for all of the places out in the world when we turn the TV on to make us believe that we aren't enough, to make us believe that we should be afraid of something, to make us believe that if we just had this one thing, life is gonna get good. But the secret that nobody wants you to know is that everything you need you already have inside of you.

[34:04] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, that's right.

[34:06] Salisha Thomas: Yeah. But it's hard to hear that. It's hard to feel that if you never quiet the noise. And that's part of the discipline, yeah. Quieting the noise. In whatever way that is for you. Sure. I'm I have a chapter in here called Be Hard to Reach. That could be some of it. What does that mean for you?

[34:27] TyNia René Brandon: It's shifting because I'm hard to reach, but I'm always on my phone.

[34:30] Salisha Thomas: Oh that don't make no sense. Maybe I need to turn my phone off because when I like when I was a kid, I don't know about y'all, like before we had like cell phones and stuff. I was like, I was writing all the time.

[34:41] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[34:45] Salisha Thomas: I was writing little poems. For who? For what? Not for money. I just had fun doing them. I was outside playing with my friends. It was all about being in the moment. Then I got all these distractions, and as an adult, I'm like, man, these those things, why did I stop doing those? I literally forgot. I forgot these little joys that made me so happy that didn't cost me anything. How did I forget?

[35:16] TyNia René Brandon: And I think that goes back to what you were saying about everything you need already being inside of you.

[35:21] Salisha Thomas: So what I heard you say just now is that you were writing all the time. So you always had these very creative artistic skills.

[35:28] TyNia René Brandon: And I was bossy. I was a director.

[35:29] Salisha Thomas: Period. Period. And now you're running your own show. I mean the Salisha Show. But you're also running.

[35:39] TyNia René Brandon: Let's talk about that.

[35:40] Salisha Thomas: Let's talk about the Salisha Show and how that kind of came about. You already had Black Hair in the Big Leagues, which was amazing. I remember coming on as a guest on your show. We had we basically had the whole beautiful dressing room on the show, which was so yes, we did. I think we did that a couple times. And Sophia Vanderpool, who's my executive assistant, is here today. She'd be meeting all the people on the podcast. She's like, I know you. I know lots of things about you.

[36:04] TyNia René Brandon: Oh my gosh.

[36:07] Salisha Thomas: Sophia knew my name even before I knew hers. Hey girl, she'd be knowing stuff. Okay. Yes, she does. She does. But wait, what was the question?

[36:14] TyNia René Brandon: So we were talking you already had Black Hair in the Big Leagues.

[36:17] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[36:17] TyNia René Brandon: And then you moved into the Salisha Show, your own show.

[36:20] Salisha Thomas: Okay. And we're currently now transitioning that show into a talk show.

[36:25] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[36:26] Salisha Thomas: And your goal is to have Broadway's first talk show.

[36:30] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[36:31] Salisha Thomas: What's your plan?

[36:32] TyNia René Brandon: Before we get to the plan, I really think the theme of the day here is learning how to green light yourself. Because how a chapter in the book. How many of us have dreams and goals and ambitions that we are waiting for somebody to tell us yes so that we can go do it? We are in a new day, y'all. The whole entertainment industry, they are panicking because people can create what they want without the middleman. People are making their own videos, their own movies, their own shows, and getting their audiences that the networks were getting. The power has shifted, and it is up to us to realize how much power we have. And so, yeah, you can create a thing and you could get it picked up by a big network and then they can do all the things.

That sounds like a wonderful path. That's great. But the thing is that you do not wait to start your dream to start the thing that you have in your heart, in your soul, in your gut that you are longing to do. Because we could be waiting until we die. I was like, how do I find a publisher? I have no idea. Yeah. I'm but I've been waiting for so many things. No, we're done. I'm tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting. I wrote this book. I'm like, okay, can write on Facebook. Can I can somebody edit this? Found a great editor, okay? Publish it myself.

[38:04] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[38:05] Salisha Thomas: Courtney, you were just talking about self-publishing, but you also do a lot of other things too. But it can be scary the first time you push share, the first time you push publish, sharing something that you made, that you produced on your own, that is terrifying. What if they don't like it? What if it gets flak? What if no one cares? The thing that I am learning right now is how can I make art that matters to me?

[38:39] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[38:39] Salisha Thomas: Instead of worrying about everybody else and what they're all gonna think, does it matter to me? Am I making something that is fulfilling to me? Because if I'm not, why am I doing it? What's the point?

[38:54] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[38:55] Salisha Thomas: And in doing something and creating the things that matter to you, that's usually the stuff that resonates with others.

[39:05] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[39:06] Salisha Thomas: And I would say you have, Selicia. I would say that you do resonate with so many people. And I think being friends with you for as long as I have and helping you with the Salisha Show and just transitioning all of your work into any of the mediums that you want it to be in. I have found that you are an incredible inspiration for people because you put yourself out there. You say, hey, this is what I want to do, and I'm just gonna do it.

[39:34] TyNia René Brandon: Felicia, I would say you are another one of those people for me.

[39:37] Salisha Thomas: Both of you are like manifestation queens and like just deciding, okay, I'm going to do this thing, and no matter what the result is, I'm gonna be proud of myself for just trying it. For doing not being afraid to fall on your face and fail.

[39:49] TyNia René Brandon: Sure.

[39:53] Salisha Thomas: Because that is part of it. That's all a part of it. My mom, I always know, and I'm gonna get a call from her. Because I'll be posting stuff online or putting things out into the universe that she's what are people gonna say? How can I show my face at church on Sunday? I to her, I'm like a loose cannon. But if I have something that is itching to get out of me, I just have to do it. And it's those things that I can't sit on that resonate the most with people. Before I moved out here to New York, which is my favorite place in the world, I asked so many people, What do you think I should do? Should I move to California? Should I do it? Everybody told me no. Guess what? I'm asking everybody who lives in California.

[40:36] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[40:36] Salisha Thomas: They all chose. And that's scary too, right? Kind of being the only person who has this thing in mind for yourself. It's okay, I see this for myself. But then looking around and at other people, hoping for some sort of validation, and then realizing, oh, nobody else sees this for me. Maybe you're not gonna get the validation. Right. But it's like you gotta move in it scared. Your intuition is your the roadmap. It's the guide map. It's literally the one thing that usually defies logic that doesn't make sense with what anybody else is saying. But if you were to just follow your gut, your intuition and quiet the noise.

[41:11] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, it actually usually ends up pretty good.

[41:15] Salisha Thomas: But logically speaking, you're like, there's no way this is gonna work out. So on that note, I remember, and you talk about this in the book as well. I remember you having to quiet a lot of noise and do something scary in your life during the Britney Spears musical. And this happened. So another thing that Selicia and I have in common is that we have both been swings on Broadway. I'm actually currently a swing right now. And of course many people know it's one of the hardest jobs you could possibly do. I would go as far to say it's one of the hardest jobs in the world. Like I know being president of nations is like a hard job, but whatever. Swinging on Broadway is a hard job.

[41:55] TyNia René Brandon: I don't care what anybody says. It's hard, okay? And one thing that you had to do, Salisha, you went up in there at Once Upon a One More Time, and you said yes to being a swing for not one, not two, not three, not five, but twelve roles. I don't even know if the union lets you do that anymore. They definitely called and said, "Hey, are you okay?" They called me. They said, "You want us to step in?" I was like, actually, that would be great. But yes, I have to completely agree. Like, I always have valued swings and understudies, but it wasn't until I became one that I'm like, okay. Yes, it was a lot. And I went on for more than half the run. I was just telling David about this before we started.

I'm like, I went on for 68 of the 123 performances. Wow. 27 of those were for one lead role. I was on that stage a lot. And for each new role that I went on, I think I went on for six different tracks, five or six different tracks out of the 12. The first time I went on, I was not rehearsed. Which happens a lot more often than it should. A little side eye for that. A little bit. It's Broadway. Yeah. And things happen. You run out of time. Other things have to be rehearsed. You're trying to put up something brand new, and things can happen. But we gotta be rehearsed. Yes. Yeah. But that show, even though it was one of the hardest things I've ever done, there are people in this room that I know because of that experience, which is so cool.

It's so wild that I am so glad that I have the opportunity to do it. I went on for Cinderella. Yes. I think that's what you were getting at. Oh, yes. The lead role of Once Upon a One More Time, with like, they told me at midnight before the matinee. Andrew was the only person who had heard me say the lines in our living room. Before we transitioned from the DC tryout to Broadway, I was like, oh, I hope they add this one to my track. Why isn't Cinderella one of my tracks? And then I saw the show when we were mounting it in DC. I'm like, oh, they wanted to look like Britney. Oh, I'll never be Cinderella. I'm black. Oh, wow. That's what I thought. Sure. And but then there was a day when they were changing the script and they took out "Slave for You."

They were like, there's a world in which if we ever had a black Cinderella, we don't want the stepsisters singing, "You are Slade for us." That might not be great. That might not go over too well, Broadway. I was like, oh. But I was like, oh, black Cinderella. I was like, I wonder if they've already found her. And so I prepared a little audition, even though no one asked of me, but I was like, I know what's in the show. And when it came time to it, I was like gonna send the email. I actually did send the email. I was like, I would like to be considered for this role if you guys can add this to my track. And I got the email back saying, "Oh, we already added it to your track." So you didn't even know.

You didn't realize it at first. No, they didn't hear me sing it. They didn't audition me for it. They didn't see anything. In fact, my initial audition, they almost forgot to ask me to sing my 16-bar cut, which a 16-bar cut for a Broadway show for real? That was the whole audition. I never sang from the show. I sang Katy Perry. Not for nothing. It was a Britney Spears show. So I would say that Katy Perry would be appropriate in the audition room. I'll give you that. But they almost forgot to ask me to sing that. It's because you're such a vibe in the room. Yeah. That's what it is. I loved you. They were like, "Honey, we know you can play Cinderella. We put it in the track," but we all were finding out at the same time.

And I will say when I was on the stage, I was looking at the monitors. You know how they have the TV screens that hang at the balcony? That's how you can see the conductor, so you don't have to look down at him if he's like right in front of the stage? I didn't have my glasses on. I'm like, can I see this man? He tried to kill me. I can't see him. So it was really just we are shooting through the dark. Are we gonna be able to do this? And it took a whole village. We all did it. It was not just me. I did know all the lines. I could sing all the songs, not in the shower. But even the MD didn't know if I could sing it. Yeah. So it was a stressful day. But we had a miracle moment on Broadway when you showed it for yourself, when you said yes, when you had the discipline to do the work beforehand to do the work beforehand.

Do the homework for the job that you want. Oh, doing the homework for the people on the street. Doing the homework for the job that you want with no deadline. Wow. Not knowing if that day will ever come. Do you show up for yourself so that you can be ready if they were to offer you what you want? Are you ready for your dreams to come true? What happens if what you really wanted in life, somebody asked you today? Hey, can you fulfill this order of 500 dresses? I'm sorry, I just saw Real Women Have Curves. It was 200 dresses, but real women have curves. Can you fulfill this order? They're like, we got six people up in here. Yeah, we can do it. It's easy. We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. And you're like, what do we do?

You gotta pull up. Are you ready to pull up if what you really want was just offered to you and handed to you? Do you have anything to show of, "I've already proven myself in this area"? I've already started doing the thing that I really want to do on a big level, even though I haven't had the budget. I haven't, I'm just doing it with the resources that I have. Can you already start? I feel, and Salisha, you could speak on this. You're such a major manifester of when you want something, putting it out into the world already. And then it's like God is, He's, oh, I see you. Let me raise you one. Yeah. Yeah. But you, it's almost like you have to take the first step out. You have to invest in yourself first.

You have to book the course first or buy the thing first, or just do it first. The meditation that I love doing, if I'm manifesting, it's called be do have. And here in America, in our world, it's so easy for us to plan things from have do be. Once I have all the resources, once I have all the training, once I have everything I need, all my ducks in a row, then I'll do the thing. And then I'll be that star. Oh no, no. How you say it? You gotta have main character energy first. Yes. Okay. Yes. Let's talk about it. You have to put yourself in the mindset of I am that girl. I am doing the—it's an I am, not an I want to, I long to. No, what if you are already in the mindset of, oh I am her? What if you believed it about yourself?

How do you believe something about yourself if you've not been validated externally yet? I think it's by doing the thing, right? Yeah. I've always had such imposter syndrome. I would love to be a talk show host. I want to be a talk show host. How do I do that? I'm not on a major network. Not you. But you have not yet, exactly. But by showing up, by putting these events together. Yeah. Proving to yourself, wait a minute. I am, I can do this. And not for nothing, the Salisha Show already has out three episodes on YouTube right now, right? Yeah. Isn't that right? Of the live, I think maybe four. Of the four? Maybe four. We should go look at that. But of the live show. You managed to say, I want to be a talk show host and make that happen.

And also, not for nothing, I said to you on a random day, one day, I don't know, I want to be a producer, and then you raised me one and said, "Be mine." And it's working in real time right here. I have a work wife, and you have—should we do Q&A? We want to do Q&A. Yeah, should we do—what if we have to do that? Yeah. Oh, let's do it. Does anyone have any questions? Yay, great. What did writing this book add to your repertoire of skills?

[50:59] Salisha Thomas: Honestly, it added to my repertoire of confidence of proving to myself that I can start a big project and finish it. It's so easy to start a lot of things and then to leave loose ends. You gotta finish the project that you start. And in doing this book in particular, the version that I had very close to before I actually published it, I hated the version. I hated the cover, I hated the font, I hated everything. And I was almost like, this is what it is if I self-publish. And then I realized, wait a minute. What if I don't publish it until I'm like, I like it? Sure. They're like, "Don't do a pink cover. It's giving Mean Girls." But I like it. I like the mean—I'm not a mean girl. But I like the pink, like making it to where I like it.

I had to do the same thing with my audiobook, which is coming out very soon. I recorded this audiobook in October. In October? Yeah. I recorded it in October and it's been sitting on my desktop. Cause I'm like, this sounds ghetto. You could hear all the—it just sounded very low budget. And it wasn't until last week where I'm like, oh, I can hire an audio engineer. And I don't have to start from scratch and try to engineer. No, make it something that you like. So I'm realizing it's okay to make something for—and for it to be messy, but that's like your first draft. And now what do I need to do to like it? Define it. Yeah. I don't know if that really like answers your question.

[52:53] TyNia René Brandon: Anyone else? I thought I saw a few more hands.

[52:55] Audience Member: Hey Felicia.

[52:57] Salisha Thomas: Hi, David.

[52:58] TyNia René Brandon: Hey David.

[52:59] Audience Member: So I'm true, should you kind of touch basis on this a little bit and talk about the meditation? Well, what you do as far as the Broadway world makes the stressful hands.

[53:15] TyNia René Brandon: So the question was Broadway is such a high demand, stressful place. And you've spoken a lot about your meditation practice. How do you—what was the last part of the question?

[53:31] Salisha Thomas: Thank you for that question. It's different if I'm in a show versus not in a show. If I'm in a show in a very stressful environment, like high pressure, high exposure, like that type of stressful environment. I need to be in the mindset of no fear. How do I get there? Especially when I have stage anxiety.

[53:55] TyNia René Brandon: Do you really?

[53:56] Salisha Thomas: I do.

[53:58] TyNia René Brandon: I've never known that about you.

[53:59] Salisha Thomas: It doesn't show.

[54:00] TyNia René Brandon: It doesn't show at all.

[54:01] Salisha Thomas: I thank you. I think like being present. For me personally, getting rid of my stage anxiety helps I do that by listening, getting the attention off of myself. But I learned something. I went to a Tony Robbins conference last year, and what I learned was putting yourself in a—it's a mental state that he called it like state. I'm like, what is that? You've got all these people in the building saying, yes. And so fear and excitement, they're like the same thing. The difference between them is breath. So when I'm like really afraid of something, I'm holding my breath. And when I'm excited about something, like it's a different, like I'm actually breathing, and it's the same emotion with a different tone underneath it.

So for me personally, I take breaths, and I tell myself to let go of perfection. It's okay to mess up as long as you're present. I've seen some people who I look up to so much who have cracked all over that stage, and I don't care because they were so present. I'm like, the crack, what did they say in the Cher show? It's emotion. Like, but it's connected, whereas when you mess up and you're not present, it's very stressful. So breath and meditating is really helpful for me with my mental health, and then when I'm not in a show, keeping my mental health is part of that is living my life and being okay that I'm not doing this eight-show week, or enjoying the time I have off, enjoying the time I get to go home and see my family, enjoying the time I get to be knocked up.

[56:02] Salisha Thomas: Absolutely, and knowing too that those experiences will influence your work when you're back in the eight show week.

[56:08] TyNia René Brandon: Makes it much deeper.

[56:09] Salisha Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

[56:11] TyNia René Brandon: Next, hello.

[56:13] Salisha Thomas: Okay. So you've done, you've written books, you've been on Broadway, you have a podcast, you're starting a talk show. You're gonna be a mom. What is next for Salisha? What do you want to accomplish next?

[56:27] TyNia René Brandon: So the basic question is, what is next? But the better part of that question, which I love that you said, was you are an author, a Broadway star, a talk show host, a podcast host, a soon-to-be mother. What's next for Salisha?

[56:52] Salisha Thomas: I envision a world because I didn't grow up like this. My dad has always been like, you're a career girl, you're a career girl. It's okay for you to miss my retirement party because you're working, you're a working girl. No. And I listen to him because he just wanted me to be successful. And I realize I've missed so many things when I'm working for somebody else. And I have a lot more freedom when I'm the boss. And now I'm married to someone who really prioritizes family. My family has never prioritized family. I'm like, what is that? You mean we check in before we take gigs? We travel in a wolf pack? What is this life? And I like it. But in order for me to do that, I have to personally learn how to make money, make a living outside of the one way I really know how to make a living, which is an eight show week. So that has been what I've been working on really since 2020 is learning how to make a living without having to be in one place.

[58:16] Salisha Thomas: So what's next? I'm trying to build a virtual world where I can go anywhere and create the thing from France. Yes. I can create the thing from Hawaii, from Oregon, from California. Yes. And if I need to be in New York, then I can fly into New York. That is the life I would like to create.

[58:39] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[58:40] Salisha Thomas: And so I've actually started doing that, which is really cool. I'm like, okay, God. And I also thought, okay, when I get pregnant, I'm never gonna work again. And I realize when you follow the breadcrumbs of your life, like whatever that means, everything works out for you how it should. I did not think I was gonna be able to find a gig being pregnant. And here comes this Hugh Jackman show. Here it is. He don't care how big I am. I'm like, for real? He's like, this is so great. For real? Life can work out in really magnificent ways if you don't limit God or the universe. You say what you want in this life, and then you trust that it will be delivered to you in the form that you need.

[59:30] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[59:30] Salisha Thomas: That's beautiful. So I am learning to ask for what I want. I want a life that I can do from my closet. Well, I want to be able to make a living from my closet. Yeah, that is what I've been working on.

[59:43] TyNia René Brandon: I love it. Salisha, I want you to ask your question.

[59:48] Salisha Thomas: 50, 60 years. You're within like lifetime. How do you want us to remember what you want to listen to?

[59:57] TyNia René Brandon: Oh my god, so beautiful. Felicia Mapati Pearl, one of my favorite people in the world just asked a brilliant question. In 50, 60 years, you will be receiving, because we're manifesting right here, right now, you will be receiving lifetime achievement awards. What do you, Salisha Thomas Wise, want your legacy to be?

[1:00:21] Salisha Thomas: Okay, how dare you to ask that question? And I've asked so many women and men on my podcast, what do you want your legacy to be? Because I'm always like, how do you answer that question? I want to know, so I asked the question. I'm never asked the question. But if I'm being completely honest, I want to be remembered for being kind. I think there's a lot of stuff in this world that we're like, look at all this stuff that I've done. Look at all of stuff that when you're dying, it doesn't matter. But how did you make people feel?

[1:00:54] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[1:00:54] Salisha Thomas: Did you make people feel heard and seen? Do the people around you feel like they matter?

[1:01:04] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah.

[1:01:05] Salisha Thomas: I would say that you have already accomplished that, and that is definitely the legacy you're leaving with me. I would hope it's the legacy that Salisha is leaving on you all tonight. Thank y'all so much for joining us. Salisha, you will continue to be an inspiration. Buy the book, Why Be a 9 When You Can Be a 10. They had Serena the Audiobook. Why do you and Ivan, you can be a 10. Salisha is reading it. This has been such an evening.

[1:01:30] TyNia René Brandon: Oh, yes, you are narrating it.

[1:01:32] Salisha Thomas: Yes. And thank you all so much.

[1:01:34] TyNia René Brandon: Thank you.

[1:01:42] Salisha Thomas: I feel more energized already. I feel like I'm a 10 now.

[1:01:45] TyNia René Brandon: Yes.

[1:01:46] Salisha Thomas: And that again, that's not just her turning it on for the audience.

[1:01:52] TyNia René Brandon: No.

[1:01:53] Salisha Thomas: That is how you feel leaving an interaction.

[1:01:56] TyNia René Brandon: So I got to see her at your party.

[1:01:59] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:02:00] TyNia René Brandon: And I hadn't seen her since then. And just going seeing her there, walking in, she has this ability to make you feel like you're the most important person in the room when she sees you.

[1:02:09] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:02:09] TyNia René Brandon: And that's what's really cool is I walked in, I saw her, and for me, it's your guys' single, and she's the singer. And so you guys are the most important person in the room, and I'm coming over and she's Mark. Hi, blah, blah, blah. And with the biggest smile.

[1:02:22] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:02:22] TyNia René Brandon: And completely genuine. And it's just, she just makes you feel seen.

[1:02:27] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:02:27] TyNia René Brandon: And there's something really magical because not a lot of people can do that. And I texted her last night after I saw Two Strangers Carry a Cake across New York City, which I loved. And please go see it because we need original musicals to run at the Longacre.

[1:02:43] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:02:43] TyNia René Brandon: But I got a text back from her that has I'm counting five exclamation points in it.

[1:02:49] Salisha Thomas: She does speak with exclamation points.

[1:02:50] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah. But then like sometimes I think that you can talk about someone using a lot of exclamation points and that being like coming on very strong and overwhelmed. But that's not like it is just it is pure enthusiasm.

[1:03:02] Salisha Thomas: Truly, truly.

[1:03:03] TyNia René Brandon: And real genuine enthusiasm that is so contagious. It just makes me want to do better at life.

[1:03:08] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:03:09] TyNia René Brandon: And if I can thank you for bringing up the party.

[1:03:12] Salisha Thomas: Of course.

[1:03:12] TyNia René Brandon: Oh, the party that I had. Because I think that I mentioned this in the last episode. But yeah, right after that, right after she did this event, I was like, Do you want to come sing with me?

[1:03:23] Salisha Thomas: Uh-huh.

[1:03:24] TyNia René Brandon: Just because again, I loved her energy. I loved what she brought into a room and like talking about a collaborative spirit and how she talked about art and creating art. And I sent her a demo of the song with Paul singing it.

[1:03:43] Salisha Thomas: Right.

[1:03:43] TyNia René Brandon: Because that was all that existed at the time. And she listened to it and we talked about is this the right key? Do we need to change the key? What like what's working with your voice? And I said, I want to record this and I want to make a single, which is Paul and my first single.

[1:03:54] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:03:54] TyNia René Brandon: And I want to make a music video of it. So we're gonna bring a professional camera into the recording studio. And she was just like on board for everything.

[1:04:10] Salisha Thomas: And she was like, I'm so pregnant.

[1:04:13] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, because I was gonna say that was that that plays into it because she was very pregnant.

[1:04:13] Salisha Thomas: She was very pregnant and we recorded it in August. Her due date was not till early October. But we really were like, let's get so far ahead of it that there's really no chance.

[1:04:30] TyNia René Brandon: Of course.

[1:04:31] Salisha Thomas: And then she has had the baby at this point, obviously. But in late September, we had an idea to do a little social media push with her. And I reached out to her and I was like, hey, do you want to come and do this thing? And if not, like we get it, because she was so very pregnant. By the way. We're like, if it if you are too tired, if it is just too hot outside, like whatever it is, like you can say no. And she was like, Let's put it on the calendar, but I might back out. And we're like, totally cool.

[1:05:02] TyNia René Brandon: And this is where I can't believe I actually got a text from her.

[1:05:06] Salisha Thomas: Uh-huh.

[1:05:06] TyNia René Brandon: Because again, if I just hadn't heard from her that day and she hadn't shown up, we would have gone, guess she's not at Purely Good Faith, guess she guess she's not available. I got a text from her that said, I am in the hospital and I am about to go into labor.

[1:05:21] Salisha Thomas: So that's commitment.

[1:05:23] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah, that is. And you want to see how to do that.

[1:05:25] Salisha Thomas: She went through with it and had that baby.

[1:05:27] TyNia René Brandon: You want to talk about being a 10. Do you know who made the official birth announcement?

[1:05:31] Salisha Thomas: Who?

[1:05:32] TyNia René Brandon: Her boss at the time, who she was singing back up for at Radio City.

[1:05:37] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:05:37] TyNia René Brandon: Hugh Jackman.

[1:05:38] Salisha Thomas: Of course.

[1:05:39] TyNia René Brandon: That makes sense.

[1:05:39] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:05:40] TyNia René Brandon: And I saw someone else had she had reposted something that someone in her family posted saying, I found out that my nephew was born because Wolverine posted about it. But she was singing back up for Hugh Jackman at Radio City while being very pregnant. And then gave birth, and then one week later went back to do her last show.

[1:06:03] Salisha Thomas: No, yeah.

[1:06:04] TyNia René Brandon: I remember seeing that.

[1:06:05] Salisha Thomas: And I was just like, I on social media being like, Are you crazy? But that's amazing.

[1:06:09] TyNia René Brandon: I guess like you two equally put a baby into this world, just absolutely equally.

[1:06:18] Salisha Thomas: Yes.

[1:06:20] TyNia René Brandon: But she also said to us, like, do for the video, do you want to hide the fact? And I don't think just because of like the angles and stuff, I don't think you can like really tell.

[1:06:31] Salisha Thomas: No, there was, but there was also no sitcom antics. There was no like holding a piece of bread or something in the way, or no attempt to hide. That just you can't, we didn't go out of our way to show it, but there are some points where you can see her very pregnant belly.

[1:06:46] TyNia René Brandon: And the song, which as I mentioned in the last episode, is called Cassandra. It is now currently streaming on all major platforms. There are multiple songs called Cassandra. So if you put in Cassandra Rigano or Cassandra Salisha Thomas, that will be the one. There is also a music video on YouTube. It is from the perspective of a woman trying really hard not to say I told you. And it's not explicitly political, but it is certainly implicitly political.

[1:07:12] Salisha Thomas: With each and every day.

[1:07:13] TyNia René Brandon: Yeah. And we were hearing in the news people saying I heard people, women being referred to as modern day Cassandras. I have been mentoring someone who I met when she was in high school just this week. She's at NYU now. Just this week, she put up the very first reading of her very first musical, which is called Dear Cassandra. If we are in the age of Cassandra.

[1:07:38] Salisha Thomas: No, it's really.

[1:07:39] TyNia René Brandon: So I said to her, like, I don't think that I don't think that a reminder about of the next generation and what we are setting them up for is a bad thing if we happen to see your pregnant belly.

[1:07:52] Salisha Thomas: Yeah, no, not at all.

[1:07:54] TyNia René Brandon: Not at all. But that was like she was thinking about every angle of this, both like artistically and logistically. Because she hops on board something, and she's not gonna give you a nine if she can give you a ten.

[1:08:10] Salisha Thomas: A hundred percent.

[1:08:10] TyNia René Brandon: No, she's constantly a 10. We were so lucky to have her on there. And let's take a look into our next episode.

[1:08:18] Salisha Thomas: Let's really quickly go back.

[1:08:20] TyNia René Brandon: Okay, cool. And she has a podcast as well, the Salisha Show. So you should go listen to that. I think that I saw that her last or most recent guest was James Monroe Iglehart.

[1:08:30] Salisha Thomas: She's had incredible people.

[1:08:32] TyNia René Brandon: Oh, that's very cool.

[1:08:33] Salisha Thomas: A series of tens.

[1:08:34] TyNia René Brandon: Yes. Absolutely. Go listen to that and be a 10 yourself.

[1:08:36] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:08:37] TyNia René Brandon: We're going to jump into our next episode where we discuss the complete works of Jane Austen.

[1:08:49] Salisha Thomas: Which, especially if you're familiar with the complete works of William Shakespeare Abridged, is exactly what you think it is and exactly what you hope it will be.

[1:09:00] TyNia René Brandon: And was so much fun.

[1:09:01] Salisha Thomas: Yeah.

[1:09:02] TyNia René Brandon: So we will dive into that in our next episode. And remember, you can follow us on Instagram at Drama Book Show Podcast. Please subscribe to the Drama Bookshop on Eventbrite so that you can know when we do these live events. Give us a rating and a review on wherever you listen to your podcast, because believe me, it really helps us get out there into the world. And remember, all the books we talk about can be found here at the Drama Bookshop. And so can we. And we will see you at the bookshop.