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[0:02] Christine Toy Johnson: Welcome back to Talk Back, the Dramatists Guild podcast about building the theater we want to see.

[0:07] Christine Toy Johnson: I'm your host, Christine Toy Johnson.

[0:10] Christine Toy Johnson: This season is all about collaboration.

[0:13] Christine Toy Johnson: In this episode, we'll hear from artistic leaders from two theater companies that approach centering artists with disabilities in different ways.

[0:21] Christine Toy Johnson: I'll speak with Nicholas Viselli from Theater Breaking Through Barriers, a company that has been doing this work since 1979.

[0:28] Christine Toy Johnson: I'm also joined by Sarah Hom and Anna Morton from the Roundabout Theatre Company, an institution that has been working hard this year to expand their programming to be more intentionally inclusive.

[0:40] Sarah Hom: Hi, I'm Sarah Hom, Roundabout Theatre Company's Director of Audience Services.

[0:44] Sarah Hom: Roundabout Theatre Company is one of the nation's largest not-for-profit theater companies.

[0:50] Sarah Hom: We're located in New York, and we make our home on five different stages.

[0:57] Sarah Hom: We have three Broadway and two off-Broadway.

[1:02] Sarah Hom: And we produce a full season of work that includes both revivals and new works.

[1:09] Sarah Hom: And in addition to that, we also have a robust education program that does training for building the future workforce of the theater, as well as in the New York City school system.

[1:27] Anna Morton: Hi, I'm Anna Morton, Roundabout Theatre Company's Literary Manager.

[1:32] Anna Morton: Hi, good morning, everyone.

[1:33] Nicholas Viselli: My name is Nicholas Viselli. I'm the producing artistic director of Theater Breaking Through Barriers here in New York City.

[1:40] Nicholas Viselli: Thank you so much for joining us today.

[1:42] Nicholas Viselli: I am really excited to ask you about some new programs that your theaters have created.

[1:49] Nicholas Viselli: I think especially during the pandemic, and specifically the programs that you've created to make space for works by, for, and about artists with disabilities.

[2:00] Nicholas Viselli: I'd love to start with Sarah and Anna. Can you please tell us about your Reverb Theater Arts Festival?

[2:07] Sarah Hom: Yes, absolutely.

[2:11] Sarah Hom: So Reverb Theater Arts Festival was conceived as part of our community partnerships work that we were doing in support of our relaxed performances.

[2:22] Sarah Hom: And we had partnered with several different organizations: Action Play, Epic Players, CoLab, and Dream Street.

[2:33] Sarah Hom: And we had been thinking about what more we could be doing with the disabled community.

[2:40] Sarah Hom: And so we partnered with one additional group, the Arts for All Abilities Consortium, and realized that maybe what we wanted to do was put together a festival of works featuring artists with disabilities.

[2:55] Sarah Hom: And that's kind of how the Reverb Festival came together.

[2:59] Sarah Hom: Originally, we had thought about doing it in person, and then COVID hit, so we went all digital.

[3:07] Christine Toy Johnson: How did the program change once it moved to being virtual?

[3:13] Sarah Hom: It allowed us to really open it up to a lot more people for starters.

[3:21] Sarah Hom: Before we were looking, all of the organizations that we were working with all focus and are based in the New York area, ourselves included.

[3:29] Sarah Hom: And what this allowed us to do is when we opened it up and requested submissions, we got 80 submissions from across the country and a few from the UK.

[3:40] Sarah Hom: And it also allowed us to work with collaborators and artists who were not New York based.

[3:47] Sarah Hom: We really were able to cast a wide net and really expand the community that we were able to bring in.

[3:55] Sarah Hom: It was important for us to have a wide spectrum of disability represented in this festival because of all of the organizations that we were working with.

[4:04] Sarah Hom: That's something that we're very cognizant of going forward and something that we hope to really work on for future festivals and future iterations of the Reverb Festival.

[4:16] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you. I'd love to know more about the nuts and bolts of the festival, what the process was, and what did you end up presenting to the public?

[4:28] Sarah Hom: Out of the 80 submissions that we received, we selected 24 to be presented as part of the final festival.

[4:36] Sarah Hom: And again, because this was specifically for artists with disabilities, we wanted to make sure that the final festival presentation was as accessible as possible.

[4:51] Sarah Hom: So that meant that we also needed to make sure that the final video was captioned and audio described and sign interpreted.

[5:02] Sarah Hom: And so it was a lot of moving pieces and it was a lot of planning and it was sort of a real race to the finish there, but we ultimately got it done in the end.

[5:14] Christine Toy Johnson: That's great. And Anna, could you tell me about how it was to be introduced to so many more artists with disabilities? Or were you surprised at how many new artists with disabilities you were able to meet through this program?

[5:29] Anna Morton: So one of the things that myself and our associate artistic director, Jill Raphson, were pleased to sort of help out with at the very beginning was as Sarah mentioned, there were some partnerships within the festival of folks who we had been working with before.

[5:45] Anna Morton: And so we were able to provide some names of artists who we already knew to partner with some of the featured artists in the festival, folks that we had worked with on stage and elsewhere who had connections in the disability community.

[5:58] Anna Morton: And then to be able to kind of get to know these folks, some of whom were actually people who I had maybe encountered in other capacities, and then to be able to see their work in the festival was really exciting, and other folks who I've noticed as you know, sometimes that phenomenon where once you see someone's name or you hear a new word, then you're noticing them all over.

[6:18] Anna Morton: And I feel like that's been happening to me. I've noticed that with this festival in particular that I'll be reading through announcements or you know, lists of names for folks who are applying for different programs at Roundabout and noticing folks who were featured in the Reverb Festival.

[6:32] Anna Morton: So that's been exciting and has just sort of opened up myself and also, I mean, I think this was the whole hope with the festival to sort of see the different talents that these artists have to offer because some of the context I'm seeing them in are not even necessarily the artistry that they were sharing in the festival, if that makes sense.

[6:50] Christine Toy Johnson: Right. Thank you. I'm going to come back to you both, but I'm going to ask Nicholas about the virtual Playmakers Intensive that Theater Breaking Through Barriers held this summer. I'd love to know anything you want to tell us about that, Nicholas.

[7:08] Nicholas Viselli: Oh my goodness, thank you. I want to answer your question, but before I do, can I just give you a little bit of a history of our company? Because a lot of people don't know us or don't realize that we've been here for quite a long time.

[7:23] Nicholas Viselli: Theater Breaking Through Barriers is the only company that's working on an off-Broadway contract on an off-Broadway level that is dedicated to advancing the work of professional writers, directors, actors, technicians with disabilities.

[7:40] Nicholas Viselli: We were founded in 1979 as Theater by the Blind, but in 2008 we expanded our mission to include artists and performers of all abilities and disabilities.

[7:52] Nicholas Viselli: As far as our Playmakers Intensive is concerned, we actually began this shortly after the pandemic started.

[8:00] Nicholas Viselli: Since 2011, we were doing what we called our Playmakers Intensive, and we would do it every year.

[8:06] Nicholas Viselli: It was an annual event where we would gather together a group of artists, directors, and actors, disabled and non-disabled.

[8:14] Nicholas Viselli: And it became sort of like a, I would say sort of like a 24-hour play festival where we would randomly pair people into groups.

[8:22] Nicholas Viselli: A writer would choose the name of a director, a director would choose the name of several actors, and then that group would have one week to create, rehearse, and then perform an original short play.

[8:35] Nicholas Viselli: It's a very successful program for us because it really allows true collaboration and it allows artists to work with many other artists whom they've never worked with before.

[8:47] Nicholas Viselli: When the pandemic hit, we were, of course, like all theaters, struggling to figure out what we could produce that we could keep our artists active and also stay connected with our audiences.

[8:59] Nicholas Viselli: So we decided we would try doing a Playmakers Intensive virtually.

[9:05] Nicholas Viselli: And so we did our first one last May.

[9:09] Nicholas Viselli: I will be honest with you, I didn't think that it was going to be successful.

[9:13] Nicholas Viselli: I always felt that it's the energy in the room that helps to generate all of the work that ultimately is produced.

[9:21] Nicholas Viselli: But I was so pleasantly surprised and thrilled to say I was dead wrong about that.

[9:29] Nicholas Viselli: We did our first intensive and the energy and the enthusiasm that we always were able to generate in the room live, we were able to duplicate online.

[9:39] Nicholas Viselli: So what we did was rather than when we would present them, normally we would present the live shows to an invited audience over the course of an afternoon, but we chose to present one play every evening and stream it live over our social media platforms Facebook and YouTube.

[10:01] Nicholas Viselli: So it really indeed was live performances, and it was all original work that was created specifically for the intensive for the artists that were presenting it.

[10:12] Christine Toy Johnson: That's wonderful. Did you find that your pool of artists as well as your audience was able to expand because you were doing it online and so that you could get more people?

[10:27] Nicholas Viselli: Almost definitely. Doing the work virtually was truly a revelation for us because we discovered one that we could because artists can work wherever they happen to be, it allowed us to really reach out to many, many more artists, and we were able to work with artists who were in all parts of the world, disabled and non-disabled.

[10:48] Nicholas Viselli: Because we were able to stream live, those casts went out to everyone in the world.

[10:53] Nicholas Viselli: So we had people watching in Asia, in Australia, all over the place.

[11:00] Nicholas Viselli: It really was a game changer for us in so many ways.

[11:03] Christine Toy Johnson: That's fantastic. I want to ask this question of all three of you about how technology helped or enhanced or didn't help or enhance the accessibility aspect for your artists and your audiences.

[11:17] Christine Toy Johnson: Did you find any new techniques or tools to help with the accessibility for your audiences and artists?

[11:28] Nicholas Viselli: Working virtually is, for our disabled artists, it's wonderful because again, they don't have to leave home; they can work from home. It's also a great equalizer because if you have a visible or physical disability, people notice it immediately, and they automatically make decisions and assessments about you based on that disability. But when you're performing online, generally you're only seeing people from the shoulders up, and it's not that disability is hidden, but it really does give an opportunity for the artists to really reveal themselves as artists first and foremost.

[12:09] Christine Toy Johnson: Right. Fantastic. Sarah and or Anna, did you discover any new tools to help with the accessibility factor?

[12:20] Sarah Hom: This is Sarah. I really want to echo some of what Nicholas just said about presenting these pieces online in a tiny little box. It really did mean that you weren't always first going to the features of someone's disability, a cane, for example, which I walk with, or a wheelchair or what have you, and that it really did help focus it on the artistry, which made it less about stories about disabilities, and really just they became human stories, which ultimately they are and they should be, and that should be the focus. And as far as accessibility goes, you know, living with a disability, you're always looking at innovation in whatever form that you can because the world isn't necessarily made for you.

And so that was the interesting part about switching from looking at an in-person format to a digital format is that there were some things that really would have worked in person that were created and meant to be in person, and then folks ended up having to reconceive how their pieces were. Adaptability is a word that comes up a lot in the disability community, and I think that was really something that came through with the festival; it was about adaptability.

[13:55] Anna Morton: And can you please tell us about the Roundabout's refocus initiative?

[14:00] Anna Morton: So the refocus project came out of an examination of the question of what a classic play is and who gets to decide and define a classic or what is included in the canon. Roundabout is a company that was founded to produce revivals. And so over the many years that we've been around, we have produced many of the plays that have come to be considered classics. And so as we look at our history and think about how we have contributed to defining what those classics are, we thought that perhaps we should be taking the spotlight that we have and shining it on some plays that were not included in the canon that we think of right now, but should be, but are canon plays and are classics, but have not been traditionally considered classics by the predominantly white theatrical establishment in this country.

The idea is that this will continue over many years. This year it was a reading series of five plays and then some supplemental programming. And then so each year we'll have another reading series and focus on a different community; next year we're going to be focusing on writers from the Latinx community. And ideally, some of the plays that we do in the readings ultimately will appear on our stages and other stages as well. So hopefully it will just get bigger and bigger as time goes on, and then we will be able to actually produce some of these plays and give them full Broadway revivals or revivals elsewhere so that they kind of come back into the cultural conversation.

[15:28] Christine Toy Johnson: We'll be back after a short break. Today we're focusing on collaborating with the disability community. During our interview, I asked Roundabout's Anna Morton about engaging writers and actors with disabilities. Here's Anna.

[15:49] Anna Morton: I think similar to what Sarah said earlier, there are some ways in which, you know, this was our first year, and some ways that we could have kind of focused on some more intersectionality within the program that we did have this year. And I think one of the things that's great about starting something that you're able to do again in the future is that that is something that we can hopefully improve upon as the years go by. One of the things that we have talked about is how do we continue our connections with that community moving forward, even when maybe the next year the reading series is focusing on artists from different backgrounds, but we're not necessarily always going to be looking at a certain racial background or ethnic background, cultural background.

So I think it is possible that one of the things we've discussed is potentially having a year where we're focusing on playwrights from the disability community. That being said, I also think that in a sort of intersectional mindset, that doesn't mean that that should be or would be the only moment that we would focus on those artists, and that I think there are many ways in which we can incorporate actors or writers or directors from the disability community into our other programming in future years where we are, you know, focusing on Latinx writers, and then how do we bring in folks from the Latinx community with a disability into that programming as well? So there's a lot of opportunity in the future to build upon that, and I'm hoping that that's something that we do as we move forward.

[17:18] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes, that's wonderful. I also wanted to know how you envision finding the people that you don't know, bringing them in, welcoming them in. How do you envision engaging with a wider community?

[17:35] Anna Morton: Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually had spent some time over the summer and last spring meeting with folks, not necessarily even with refocus in mind, but just meeting with some artists that I hadn't been able to connect with yet in that kind of moment where we were all over Zoom and going, oh, I can actually have this meeting with that director from LA, who you know, we had been saying one day we'll be at a conference together and we'll get to have coffee. But breaking down those geographical barriers meant that some of those folks then we ended up connecting with specifically for refocus because we had had a great meeting in April, and I thought maybe they'd be a great fit to direct one of the readings we were doing.

So that was something that I think I really appreciated about the virtual moment that, as others have said in this conversation, we were just able to work with people from so much further away than we normally are. I think, you know, there are so many different paths I could go down as a dramaturg and literary manager about sort of the finding of the plays themselves, because that was a whole research project that was wild and a lot of fun, but sometimes actually getting your hands on these plays, particularly in a pandemic, was difficult. But that's something that we are really looking at also in future years, making sure that we're working directly with artists from the community that we are celebrating and uplifting each year because, you know, they will have a much better sense of what we should be looking at than I will if I'm not a part of that community.

So this year, because we were looking at Black American writers and I had some background in that because that is my background, I think that was easier for me in some ways than it might be in the future if we're looking at a background that I'm not a part of.

[19:22] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you. I want to go back to Nicholas and ask about your community, how people find you, how you find each other, and if that has changed over this past year and a half.

[19:39] Nicholas Viselli: Wow, Christine, it actually has. I mean, considerably. I think there's so much to talk about here. As a theater company, it's our goal to alter the perceptions of disability in our world by really sort of not only celebrating our artists, but really, how should I say, mainstreaming or normalizing the concept of disability in our world. In order to accomplish that, we have to cast a wide net. We have to reach out to everyone in our community, not only to fulfill that mission, but to make our audiences realize and our artists realize that we are speaking to them and for them. Disability is the only diversity that exists in all other diversities. I feel that it gives us an opportunity to create a common ground, a place where we can all meet and work together.

So it becomes so important for us to be able to do that. During the last summer, again, we wanted to really start working with a larger group of artists, many artists that we had never worked with before. So the way I did that was to reach out to all of the artists that I knew and ask them if they could suggest people. And certainly that's what happened. So we suddenly started working with new artists, and then those artists started introducing us to other artists, writers, directors, and actors. This is not just exclusive to one particular group. So in the course of this year, we did five virtual playmakers intensives. We created over 74 original short plays that were written expressly for our artists, and we worked with over 270 artists in the course of the year.

[21:33] Christine Toy Johnson: Fantastic. How does that compare to say 2019?

[21:40] Nicholas Viselli: So in the course of a year, if we are able to reach an audience of somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 people, that's a good year for us. And last year we reached, based on what we could see from all of our stats on the internet, we reached over 36,000 people.

[22:02] Christine Toy Johnson: Fantastic. So do you see going forward? We've talked about this a little bit about the hybrid in-person and online performances. Do you see that that's in your future?

[22:15] Nicholas Viselli: Oh, most definitely. I just can't see how you couldn't or how any theater company couldn't at this point. While virtual theater is never going to replace the experience of live theater, it just can't. It becomes its own entity, and it opens up the door for so many other possibilities that might not exist in live theater.

[22:35] Nicholas Viselli: For example, we could work with artists all over the world. We did a collaboration with a theater company in Japan this past January, where we created two original short plays, and we worked with artists from both TBTV and from the Freedom Theater, which is a company in Japan that, like ours, integrates disabled and non-disabled artists. So that would not necessarily be possible if we had to be together.

[23:04] Christine Toy Johnson: Right. That's great. A lot of the conversations we've been having over this past year have been really to expand our true understanding of what it means to be diverse and inclusive and accessible and anti-racist. And I know that there's been so much good work that has been going on to address these bigger questions. And I'd love to talk to all three of you about how you envision creating sustainable programs that will continue this. I know that you've spoken about some of it already, but if you have any other even big wishes for how to create really create sustainable programming that will really continue this work that we are just at the beginning of.

[23:59] Sarah Hom: I think this goes back again to this theme that seems to be reoccurring for all of us here is that really looking at what we're doing and learning from it and adapting and changing and making it better for the future. And I think that that's something that we're always engaged in at Roundabout is how is this working? Who are we talking to, who are we working with, and how do we expand that for the future and how do we create better for the future in a really thoughtful manner, too. And so that's something that is inherent in all of these projects that we've been working on over this past year because it has been new and it has all come together very quickly too is what does that future look like?

What are the communities that we want to work with in the future? How can we expand our networks and how can we expand who we're talking to? And I think that that's a big part of ensuring future sustainability is how can we broaden the communities that we're working with so that we're reaching more and more people because the need for all of this work is there, and we have a responsibility to figure out how to bring people in, how to reach out to others, and that's something that we take seriously.

[25:42] Anna Morton: I love everything you just said, and you've given me a lot of hope in that statement. So thank you. Anna, do you want to add anything from the Roundabout point of view?

[25:52] Anna Morton: Yeah, I think that one of the things that we've talked about in the artistic department is how do we bake in some of these values of diversity and inclusion, and there have been so many conversations as you were saying, Christine, over the last year about how we bring this forward into the great reopening, and now we're kind of here, and making sure that we plan a program, you know, or we start working on a show or developing a show, going back to the methods and the processes that we used pre-pandemic and then at the last minute sort of layer on, oh, how is this working within the EDI framework that we've talked about over the last year? I think that's where things get really sticky because when something is the final thought in a process, it's never going to really be accomplishing the goals and meeting the needs of the people who need to be included.

And so making sure that when we start when we're on the kind of ground floor and I think as Sarah was saying, that's what a lot of this work over the last year allowed for because we had to start from the ground floor. We couldn't build on top of things we had already done because that just wasn't a possibility. And so even when we are going back to programs and methods of working that may feel more familiar, we have to stop at the very beginning and say, okay, where are we missing something? Where can we inject some of these conversations and values that we've really been promoting over the last year in so that we're starting from a strong foundation and not just trying to meet some need at the very end because we feel like we missed it when we were beginning.

[25:52] Nicholas Viselli: Yes, absolutely. I think one of the things that I've learned over this time has been to not be afraid to ask these difficult questions and not to be afraid of acknowledging that there is much to learn about each other, about ourselves and again, all of these questions that we need to be intentional about exploring and interrogating. Nicholas, I know that your theater has at its core been doing the work that we've all been talking about. My question for you is slightly different in that I wonder how you envision things shifting in the future.

[28:26] Nicholas Viselli: It's such a wonderful question, Christine. Thank you. I think fundamentally, there just has to be a bit of a shift in perception in our world. Over the last several years, we talk a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and what makes us all unique and different, and that's lovely. But I think we must first approach this from what makes us all the same. As artists, our goal is to sort of hold a mirror up to society, to represent what it is to be human. And so, in order to do that in the best possible way, we have to recognize the humanity. I think we've reached a boiling point now where we're forced to face what makes us all different and unique. From a disabled point of view, I think it's wonderful and very important that we create works by, for, and about disability.

But I also would like to see companies and art makers just recognizing disabled artists as artists first and foremost, not just as disabled artists, because I think that sort of once again puts a limitation. And as art makers, you want to be limitless as an artist. I want to show that I can do anything. And I don't want to just be limited by what people will see.

[29:54] Christine Toy Johnson: That's right. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for that. I want to leave us with one final question for all three of you. I'd love to know any takeaways you have from the new collaborations you've had this past year.

[30:09] Sarah Hom: The biggest takeaway that I have is much like Anna said earlier, is that it is so important as we turn towards going back to quote normal, that we're really making sure that we're thinking about things from the very foundation and how we can change things up and how we can be adaptable and how we can shake up what we're doing so that we come back better for the future. I think I'll leave it at that.

[30:46] Christine Toy Johnson: Great, thank you so much. Anna, do you have something to add?

[30:50] Anna Morton: I want to keep looking and keep searching, and that's such a part of my job in the first place. But really, over the last year, I have been opened up to see how many more exciting artists and works I can find and that are out there when I'm not just sort of limited to what I'm able to actually get myself to in New York. And so I'm excited to continue that looking beyond my kind of where I feel most comfortable to find artists from all different backgrounds who really have rich, exciting voices to share with the Roundabout audiences and other audiences.

[31:24] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you. Nicholas, any takeaways from your new collaborations this year?

[31:29] Nicholas Viselli: Oh my goodness. For us, I feel a little weird saying this, but in the middle of this really awful pandemic, which sort of really limited us, I learned so much, and we had such an outstandingly productive year. We worked with so many new artists that we had never worked with before. We created so much new work. I found it really exciting in our ability to adapt to the circumstances and to not only adapt but to be able to thrive. So I feel it has opened so many new doors for us, not only the technology, but just in our ability to reach so many other people and to be able to work with so many other new people. So I feel the only way we can have an impact on people is to just constantly be there for them and to not only create work for them, but to create work with them. So I hope that we can continue doing this both virtually and live in person for years to come.

[32:41] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you so much. I can't wait to see what both theaters continue to do. Thank you to all our guests today for lending us their time and sharing their thoughts. For more info about the Reverb Festival and the Refocus Initiative, visit roundabout.org. To learn more about Theater Breaking Through Barriers, visit TBTB.org. Talkback is a production of the Dramatists Guild of America. It's produced by Amy Von Masick, Sarah Storm, and me, Christine Toy Johnson. Robert Delaney Prime mixes our show. Our theme music is by Andrea Daley. Our guest producer on this episode is Anita Hollander. The Dramatists Guild Presents: Talkback is distributed by the Broadway Podcast Network. Tell us what you thought about this episode by using hashtag DGTalkBack. As always, to be continued.