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[0:03] Joshua Turchin: Hello and welcome to The Early Night Show live from the Broadway Makers Marketplace here in Turnstyle Underground in the heart of New York City.

[0:11] Joshua Turchin: My name is Joshua Turchin, and thank you all so much for being here today.

[0:15] Joshua Turchin: Woo.

[0:17] Joshua Turchin: It feels so great to be here back live.

[0:20] Joshua Turchin: Cause due to the pandemic, days were really sort of blending into each other, and our sense of time, especially mine, completely was non-existent.

[0:30] Joshua Turchin: And then after a year being in the pandemic, things finally started to get better in early 2021, and we were finally getting out of the pandemic.

[0:38] Joshua Turchin: At least that's what it felt like.

[0:40] Joshua Turchin: But COVID came and said, uh, that's what you thought, and then Delta.

[0:47] Joshua Turchin: Before the rise of the Delta variant, way back in June and July of 2021, I learned a song which really spoke to me.

[0:55] Joshua Turchin: It's a song about perseverance and hope, which was something that at the time we all really needed.

[1:01] Joshua Turchin: It still remains to this day one of my favorite songs of all time.

[1:05] Joshua Turchin: So here's "Somewhere Only We Know."

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[4:48] Joshua Turchin: That song was so much fun.

[4:50] Joshua Turchin: Now I love this song so much, but I love our next guest even more.

[4:54] Joshua Turchin: Here's Audrey Bennett.

[4:56] Joshua Turchin: Woo!

[4:57] Joshua Turchin: So you may know her from Frozen on Broadway's Young Ana or Young Amelie in Amelie on Broadway.

[5:05] Joshua Turchin: She was recently in one of the Adventure Time specials on HBO Max.

[5:12] Joshua Turchin: Um, so Audrey, I'm so happy to have you here at the marketplace today.

[5:15] Audrey Bennett: Thank you.

[5:16] Audrey Bennett: I'm so happy to be here.

[5:17] Joshua Turchin: Hey, so um, how did you find out about the marketplace?

[5:21] Audrey Bennett: Well, um, I found out about it from you, and I mean, it's just such an amazing place.

[5:27] Audrey Bennett: They have so many cute little things, and like I love everything here.

[5:31] Audrey Bennett: I got like a jacket here, it's like a little Broadway jacket.

[5:35] Audrey Bennett: It's one of my favorite things ever.

[5:37] Audrey Bennett: Um, I have a few other things from here.

[5:40] Audrey Bennett: They have just like whether it's like little stickers to coats and jackets, and it's really fun.

[5:47] Joshua Turchin: So recently I know that you went to a Billie Eilish concert, right?

[5:51] Audrey Bennett: I did.

[5:52] Audrey Bennett: It's like what was that like?

[5:54] Audrey Bennett: Okay, so it was probably like one of the most fun things I've ever done.

[5:59] Audrey Bennett: It was amazing.

[6:00] Audrey Bennett: If you don't know this about me, I am a gigantic fan of Billie Eilish, which a lot of people wouldn't expect, but I am, and I know a lot of things about Billie Eilish, and I've never gone to a concert before.

[6:13] Audrey Bennett: So, I mean, as you can expect to have a lot of energy, so I was just like jumping and screaming the entire concert.

[6:19] Audrey Bennett: I'm surprised I didn't ruin my voice, but my voice is fine.

[6:22] Audrey Bennett: But it was I mean, as a Broadway performer, don't you really need to work out your voice a lot to make sure that when you're singing like eight times a week, you don't accidentally blow out your voice mid-belts?

[6:35] Audrey Bennett: I made sure that I was screaming healthily, you know?

[6:37] Joshua Turchin: That's always really important.

[6:39] Joshua Turchin: And yeah, you also I see you're wearing a beret.

[6:41] Audrey Bennett: I am. Um, now you went to Paris over winter break, right?

[6:47] Audrey Bennett: Yeah, I did.

[6:48] Audrey Bennett: It was so much fun.

[6:50] Audrey Bennett: It was so good, and there was so much good food.

[6:54] Audrey Bennett: Like everything was so good there.

[6:56] Joshua Turchin: What was your favorite food there?

[6:58] Audrey Bennett: Um, I love chocolate eclairs, and of course chocolate croissants, but like chocolate eclairs, they don't I haven't found a place that's like really good chocolate eclairs in New York City.

[7:09] Audrey Bennett: It's like they're just like different in Paris.

[7:12] Joshua Turchin: It's so good.

[7:13] Joshua Turchin: Uh, did you go to the Eiffel Tower?

[7:15] Audrey Bennett: I did.

[7:16] Audrey Bennett: I went up to the very top.

[7:17] Joshua Turchin: Oh my god.

[7:18] Audrey Bennett: It was so windy.

[7:20] Audrey Bennett: It was like a wind tunnel at the top.

[7:22] Audrey Bennett: Like how I was walking through and I was scared that my like beret and my scarf were gonna fall off.

[7:26] Audrey Bennett: I was walking like this, so I didn't want anything to fly off.

[7:30] Joshua Turchin: That is kind of terrifying.

[7:32] Audrey Bennett: It was, it was hard to w it was hard to move.

[7:34] Audrey Bennett: And it's all like out in the open.

[7:36] Audrey Bennett: So it's kinda crazy.

[7:38] Audrey Bennett: I think someone lost their hat.

[7:39] Joshua Turchin: Oh no.

[7:41] Audrey Bennett: Well, there's now a random hat floating in Paris.

[7:44] Audrey Bennett: It's probably still up there, you know.

[7:46] Joshua Turchin: Probably.

[7:46] Joshua Turchin: Uh, do you have any fun projects coming up?

[7:49] Audrey Bennett: Um, I mean, well, I was just working on a little workshop reading, which was super fun.

[7:54] Audrey Bennett: It's called um Fall of Ninety Four.

[7:57] Audrey Bennett: Uh, it was really fun to do and it was a really special project to work on.

[8:03] Joshua Turchin: That is so so cool.

[8:04] Joshua Turchin: Um, what do you know, like, can you give us without giving it too without giving too much away, can you let us know like a tiny bit about the reading?

[8:12] Audrey Bennett: Like what's it about?

[8:13] Audrey Bennett: So basically Fall of Ninety Four, it's pretty dark.

[8:16] Audrey Bennett: So, like just be aware.

[8:19] Audrey Bennett: Um, in 1994, if you don't know, there was a mother who murdered her two children.

[8:27] Joshua Turchin: I still have not read that book.

[8:29] Joshua Turchin: I probably should.

[8:32] Audrey Bennett: It is a true story.

[8:33] Audrey Bennett: Oh wow.

[8:33] Audrey Bennett: Mother murdered her two children.

[8:35] Audrey Bennett: She let her car go into the lake with her two young sons in it.

[8:41] Audrey Bennett: It's really intense.

[8:42] Audrey Bennett: It happened in a small town in um South Carolina, and we're basically playing like some kids who like witnessed it and lived there.

[8:50] Joshua Turchin: So is Fall of Ninety Four based on um the one of the writers was actually like a kid back there, like when it happened, like in that town?

[8:59] Audrey Bennett: Oh wow.

[9:00] Audrey Bennett: In the small town, yeah.

[9:02] Audrey Bennett: And it's just kind of like their life and them like struggling and learning about what was happening.

[9:07] Joshua Turchin: Wow.

[9:07] Joshua Turchin: Yeah.

[9:08] Joshua Turchin: That's really, really interesting.

[9:09] Joshua Turchin: And also it's very intense.

[9:11] Audrey Bennett: Oh yeah, it definitely sounds really intense.

[9:13] Audrey Bennett: Yeah.

[9:13] Audrey Bennett: Um, but I love being able to, you know, start at Broadway shows.

[9:19] Audrey Bennett: This like the developmental process is so so cool for sure.

[9:23] Joshua Turchin: Yeah, it's really fun.

[9:24] Joshua Turchin: Um, have you been a part of any other shows like from the very beginning?

[9:28] Audrey Bennett: Um, well, I did um a little reading oh like years ago for something called Alice Bliss, which was really fun.

[9:38] Audrey Bennett: I've done a few readings, none of them have gone anywhere so far, but that most of them were like right before the pandemic, so and I was like 10 whenever I did them, so it's kinda nice that everything's coming back.

[9:51] Joshua Turchin: I know, especially because of the pandemic, it's just been I guess you could say rain on our parade.

[9:59] Joshua Turchin: I am so sorry.

[10:00] Joshua Turchin: I heard I heard an ugh in the back.

[10:02] Joshua Turchin: I'm so sorry for that transition.

[10:04] Joshua Turchin: But I mean you're singing "Don't Rain on My Parade."

[10:07] Audrey Bennett: Yes, I am.

[10:09] Audrey Bennett: Why'd you choose that song?

[10:09] Audrey Bennett: Um, I just really like the way that she kind of feels like the character has a she's just kind of saying, No, I'm gonna do what I want to do.

[10:19] Audrey Bennett: You can't stop me.

[10:20] Audrey Bennett: It's a defiant song, and it's kind of about like hopes and dreams and just going for it.

[10:25] Audrey Bennett: And that's something that I really connect to, especially after the pandemic, and we all have to get back out there and just go for it.

[10:32] Joshua Turchin: Yeah, and also isn't Funny Girl coming back too?

[10:34] Audrey Bennett: Yeah, it is.

[10:35] Audrey Bennett: I need to see that when it opens.

[10:37] Joshua Turchin: Me too.

[10:37] Joshua Turchin: I'm so excited.

[10:39] Joshua Turchin: Cool.

[10:39] Joshua Turchin: Well so should we start?

[10:41] Audrey Bennett: Sure.

[10:41] Joshua Turchin: Well, here we go.

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[13:15] Joshua Turchin: For our next guest, we have someone who has worked as a dramaturg for a lot of Broadway musicals, including Hadestown. He's worked with Disney for about 16 years now, and he's absolutely one of the coolest people ever. Presenting Ken Cerniglia!

[13:33] Ken Cerniglia: Thank you for having me.

[13:34] Joshua Turchin: Cool. Uh, so you're a dramaturg for probably shows, right?

[13:38] Ken Cerniglia: Mm-hmm. Uh, what is a dramaturg?

[13:40] Ken Cerniglia: That's a good question. Uh, for beginners, I like to define dramaturg as sort of like an editor for theater. So, like if you're writing a novel and a publisher is gonna publish your book, you'll be assigned an editor who will work with you and sort of be like your cheerleader along the way, who will be your coach, you know, a critic asking you the hard questions about what you're writing and what you really want to do, and bring some craft to the table to compliment what you have as a writer. So I do that in the theater. I work primarily with writers, but also work with directors and producers and basically everyone working on the show to look at the text, like what is the play itself, but also the context. When are we doing it? Why here? Why now? Why tonight? Why in this place with this community? Those kind of questions. So that when we're creating theater for the world, we know what world we're living in and why it's relevant.

[14:33] Joshua Turchin: That is so, so cool. Um, where are some of the shows you've done?

[14:37] Ken Cerniglia: Uh, well, I worked at Disney for 16 years, which was a fantastic opportunity, and I took great advantage of it and hopefully contributed some along the way. So I was there from 2003 to 2019. Um, and I worked on the development of The Little Mermaid and Tarzan and Newsies, Aladdin, Peter and the Starcatcher, Hunchback of Notre Dame, um, and then got to work on the ground level of creating the Disney Junior shows.

[15:07] Joshua Turchin: Oh wow, that is so cool. Um, what was your favorite Disney Jr. show?

[15:11] Ken Cerniglia: Oh, they're all my favorites, all my children. Um, you know, one of the most fun to work on was Newsies Junior, actually, which has just come out at MTI, um, and to bring a Broadway show, which we worked on for a really long time and I'm really proud of, um, and was the first to be captured, uh, live captured. Um, so you can see it, yes, it was recorded in LA and first available on Netflix and now it's on Disney Plus. Um, but to get that show down to about an hour for middle schools and to set middle schoolers up for success. Um, and so got to write work with the writers to create a new song for the show, as well as open up more of the roles in Newsies. Like if you've seen it on Broadway or the live capture, you'll see like it's mostly male characters.

But in a lot of drama programs, most of the participants are girls. So to create more girl characters, but also make some of the other characters gender flexible so that when you're performing, the gender of the character could reflect the performer's gender. Um, just to make it more inclusive and the wonderful thing we did was in developing those shows is we pilot them out in real schools with real students, and it was great because like that show said in 1899, inspired by a real strike that was led by children that changed the labor laws in America. Um, but to see like actual kids who are the same age as those newsies. Of course, like, you know, on Broadway, most of the newsies were like 20 something, maybe pushing 30 or more like that.

But these were actual kids, teenagers and younger who were selling papers to like earn a living to pay for, you know, their shelter and food and clothing. Um, and so just to see like real kids from now connect to kids from then and give them life and be so enthusiastic about it was a thrill.

[17:05] Joshua Turchin: And now you've worked on shows like Hades Town and Newsies, now which are both very different style shows, because Hades Town takes more after fictional aspects and myths, and Newsies is more based off of a real event-ish.

[17:23] Ken Cerniglia: Yes.

[17:23] Joshua Turchin: So which, what is the difference for you working as a dramaturg?

[17:28] Ken Cerniglia: Um, yes, really good question. So those two shows were inspired by different source material. So Hades Town, you're going back to ancient classical myths, Greek myths, of Hades and Persephone, um, and Orpheus and Eurydice, and then interpreting those and setting them, bringing them up to date and connecting them to history and the world since then and the various musical styles that Aeneas Mitchell's tapping into in her score and evoking some other places of Americana, some a little bit of New Orleans, a bit of, you know, rough times, you know, whether that's Dust Bowl Times or Now Times, or we know whatever times you want to look at. So as I said before, dramaturgy is focused on text and context.

So the context is part of like Greek myths. But one of the things we need to do in the theater is not depend on people, you know, knowing the sources of inspiration. You always have to tell the story from the beginning. Um, so my work with Aeneas and Rachel and the team at Hades Town was to do that from when I came on at New York Theater Workshop in the four, three years we got to work on it through four productions, thankfully, um, really get to sort of refine that and tell the story fresh and connecting it to its source of inspiration. Now, for something that's based on history, we did a lot of historical research, you know, looked at a bunch of newspaper reports for the time, the Newsies strike against two newspapers, but all of the other newspapers covered it in depth.

So we have newspaper articles of the time of the New Zealand Strike. So, you know, connecting those sorts of things and, um, you know, there's a difference between history and drama. So part of the dramaturge's job is to know history as best as we know it, and then work with the team to make decisions about the drama. You take dramatic license to tell the good story, and hopefully the goal is to keep the emotional truth of the history, but put it in the new form, which is drama.

[19:25] Joshua Turchin: Right. That is really cool. And what do you enjoy most about doing your job?

[19:31] Ken Cerniglia: Uh, I enjoy the collaboration. I enjoy the process of it. I enjoy like sort of starting from somewhere and just working in an iterative process with collaborators, you know, trial and error, sometimes big fails, and then pick yourself up and try to get to the next part. Um, and to really work with my collaborators. I say, you know, when I work with them, like I'm just the suggester, they're just the decider. So if I'm working with writers, like if you're the writer, it's your voice. What do you want to say out there in the world? And I'll do my best with my experience and my knowledge to help you get there. Um, and I may have some suggestions for you, but you really have to figure out what resonates with you because, you know, when we create art, it's the stuff that really connects to us, um, that resonates in us as artists that makes for the best art, you know, whether we're writing a novel or painting a painting or creating a musical.

Um, so I'm trying to get to the truth to the excitement about that when I work with collaborators. And then, you know, which is this is a sort of our odd thing, but it's part of, you know, what you take with this profession is that if I do my job the best I possibly can, then the audience won't know what I did. Right? So like I'm never gonna get the spotlight for my work as a dramaturg because if I do my best job, then like everyone else's work should shine a little bit brighter and be a little bit clearer and connect with an audience in a way that you don't notice any hiccups or anything in the storytelling. It should just be seamless and integrated.

[21:03] Joshua Turchin: Wow. That is literally so incredible. Like, thank you so, so much for taking the time to be with us here today on the Minds.

[21:12] Ken Cerniglia: To be on your show. This is fantastic. Thank you.

[21:14] Joshua Turchin: And um, I really hope you have an amazing time here at the Broadway Makers Marketplace. Wait, how did you find out about the Broadway Makers Marketplace?

[21:22] Ken Cerniglia: Um, well, I have a good friend, Michael Clarkston, whose idea it was to he pulled me down here actually back in October because I was in town, and he's like, hey Ken, why don't you come by and like check this place out and see if we could bring Broadway Market Makers Marketplace here? And I'm like, yeah, we're in a bar, but it could be really cool. And look at the holiday decorations. I mean, now we're sort of past the holiday season, but you know, it works in March too. You know, it's fantastic. It's festive. But just that idea of you know what we do in the theater is improvise, right? It's sort of live, it's like make the most of what you have, and this is what Michael and the team has done here at Broadway Makers Marketplace is take this space, connect with community, and fill it out and make the best of it. And really, you know, this sort of by fans for fans spirit of it is like right here in the sort of crossroads of Columbus Circle in the subway. Like this is you gotta meet the fans where they are.

[22:16] Joshua Turchin: Thank you so, so much for being here today.

[22:18] Ken Cerniglia: Yay, and hopefully I'll see you soon.

[22:20] Joshua Turchin: Yes, yay, uh Ken Cerniglia, everyone!

[22:26] Joshua Turchin: Thank you all so, so much for coming here today to watch us perform at the Broadway Makers Marketplace. Make sure to follow them on all major social media platforms at Broadway Makers Marketplace. Also, you can stream our episodes at theearlynightshow.com. Make sure to follow me on all major social media platforms at Joshua Turchin. And remember, you are all amazing, loved and valued, and thank you so much for being here. Until next time. Bye.

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