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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to My First Time, a new miniseries from The Ensemblist, Broadway's original podcast. I'm Mo Brady.

[0:17] Mo Brady: Welcome, listeners, to a new miniseries. I'm calling it My First Time. This is where we talk to Broadway stars who made their debuts in the ensemble to talk about why that experience helped shape them as an artist. For many of our favorite Broadway stars, their start in the ensemble helped to form them as the performers they are today. As they've ascended up the title pages of our playbills and descended the towers of backstage dressing rooms to floors closer to the stage level, I've been curious as to whether they've considered that time doing ensemble work to be formative or merely a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Our first guest for this new miniseries is Ben Crawford. Since April 2018, he's been creeping around the Majestic Theatre as the title character in The Phantom of the Opera, but before headlining the show, before Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Big Fish and Shrek, he was a replacement in the very first Broadway revival of Les Miserables, covering both the roles of Valjean and Javert. Here's my conversation with Ben Crawford.

[1:33] Mo Brady: Will you introduce yourself and tell us when you made your Broadway debut?

[1:37] Ben Crawford: Absolutely. My name is Ben Crawford. I currently am the Phantom in The Phantom of the Opera.

[1:45] Mo Brady: We've heard of it.

[1:46] Ben Crawford: It's been around. And my Broadway debut was a little-known show called Les Miserables.

[1:53] Mo Brady: Take us back to 2007 and a young Ben Crawford. What was your professional experience up until this point?

[1:58] Ben Crawford: I had just gotten my Equity card the summer before I started in 2006. I was out at the Muni. I played Bill Sykes. I played a very, very young Bill Sykes.

[2:12] Mo Brady: I can see that.

[2:13] Ben Crawford: I don't know how I was running things, and I don't know how I was intimidating, but thanks, Paul Blake and the Muni. And then I was in Tennessee doing White Christmas, and then I got this audition for Javert for the revival, and it went really well, like really well. And it's one of those things where there's that practical side of you, I'm not going to play Javert, but you're like, that was a really good audition. I found out I didn't get it. So then, like two weeks later, they have an audition comes up for the cover of Javert. I was like, okay, this is something I could do. So it was crazy whirlwind. It was like a Tuesday audition, then like a Wednesday audition, and then a Friday audition.

And then if you got it, like you started rehearsal the next day. So it was like one of those crazy things. And so it all went well, and Friday finished and went home. And my agent calls, and I remember I'm making mac and cheese with the hot dogs cut up in it. And he's like, Ben, I need you to do me a favor. Can you go to the Broadhurst and get your measurements done? Because you booked the show. And then I had to go quit my two survival jobs, call him up. I was like, I quit, I quit. And started rehearsal the next day. And it was crazy. It was nuts to have like eight hours of rehearsal, like four hours of music, four hours of blocking, and then go see the show that night. And just be like, oh my god, okay. And then have a week to like learn the show.

[3:27] Mo Brady: You had a week to learn the show.

[3:28] Ben Crawford: I think it was a week. Yeah, jumped right into it. And I don't really remember my first show. I remember that I got on the turntable a little late for one of my entrances, and I like slipped back, and I stepped on someone. And they're like, oh, you broke my hand. And I was like, oh my god. And they're like, I'm just joking. Like people were like already just ready to just poke and prod me, which was great, which meant like, you know, I was like part of the family. That was awesome. And then the crazy thing was, right after I joined, we got a bunch of new leads. So we had people leaving the show, and we got like Anne Harada came in, Max von Essen came in. I was like the new guy who knew the show.

And so they would ask me, I was like, I don't know, don't ask me. I don't know why I'm here, you know, that kind of thing. So I was coming into rehearsal during the day with them, which was, you know, a great like baptism by fire with these people that I loved like watching, you know, perform. And now all of a sudden, like Anne Harada would be like, okay, so because I was one of the travelers and master of the house. So she's like, now how should I do? I was like, you do what you want. And like, you're totally like, you can do whatever you want. It's totally cool. And believe me, I do not have a problem.

[4:34] Mo Brady: How was the show kind of the production different than other shows you had done in the past?

[4:38] Ben Crawford: I'm wanting the Muni, but that's a different that's like an outdoor, like, you know, crazy, awesome venue. It's like a mix between a ballgame and like a stunt show. No, I mean, our theaters in school were maybe 500 seat theaters. And just, you know, everything about it was just like this next step up. I remember watching it for the first time. And you know, like everything gets tense, but in a way like, rise up, Ben, like, let's go. It's real now. Playbill vault says you covered Valjean and Javert.

[5:02] Ben Crawford: I did. I did. That seems like a lot of work.

[5:08] Ben Crawford: Yeah, it was a lot of stress for young Ben. Just like constantly like, what am I gonna do? The crazy thing is, is I rehearsed Javert and everything. And then the day of my put in, we were going through and I don't know who it was. I still don't to this day, but someone forgot to move a chair. And in like the fight scene, I got thrown and I sprained my ankle really bad. And I was out of the show for like three weeks, like literally when a cab went home and like didn't do the show for three weeks. And there was one thing that I remember in school from one of my professors. His name is Dick Hanson. He and I like never got along, but he had always had great advice. He was like a real hard ass. And one thing he always talked about was CYA, like cover your ass, like, which is a great thing for understudies.

Like, don't assume that they're going to like teach you that, like, go do it. And it saved my butt many times with my job, understudying, covering people. And I was at home and I'm like, I'm not doing it like I need to. I should like look over this. You know, you never know what's going to happen. And I was able to go back in and do one show a day. I couldn't do two shows yet, but I went in to do the Wednesday evening show. And Michael Pissarro, a stage manager who just stage managed me and Charlie in the Chocolate Factory. He comes up, he's like, how are you doing? I said, good. He's like, you feeling good? I said, yeah. He's like, you're on for Javert tomorrow. I said, okay. And so my second show back after being out three weeks with a sprained ankle, I went into Javert the first time and it went great.

Like everything, you know, went as good as it could for a first a first run through. And then I don't remember who left, but someone left. And so they switched my track. So I went from playing a student to a member of Tenardier's gang. And because of that, they were like, do you want to cover Valjean as well? Just do it all. And I'm like, all right, fine. So I grew a beard and I had to learn the Valjean track as well. I never went on for it, but it was always just like a fun little stressful thing when it came to, uh, like my regular track was like pretty low, Javert was a little higher. And then of course Valjean's like through the roof. So that became just an interesting thing to kind of be ready for at any moment's notice.

And then discovering like, if I need to go on last minute for Valjean, I can get through it. And like with pure adrenaline, like I can do it like a couple of times on pure adrenaline. That'll be fine.

[7:16] Mo Brady: What did you sort of learn about being a working professional?

[7:20] Ben Crawford: I mean, the big thing is like checking in with your body. And that became the beginning of that show being so grueling on a physical level with a lot of things is like going to physical therapy. And not only like, obviously like they knew what they're doing and I'm going to trust them to like work on me and, but to ask questions about it. So if it happens again, I kind of know what's going on and I can maybe take preemptive measures. It got me into like stretching and got me into just being more aware of my instrument for lack of a better term, just to kind of make sure that every like to check in with it. And now I'm like a stretchaholic, like I stretch all the time. Obviously before Phantom, I got my foam roller, like, this is tight. Go get a massage. Like, don't like, just go do it. Go like baby yourself. If something hurts, don't, don't tough guy through it. It's like, go get it figured out.

[8:05] Mo Brady: Had you been in a group of, had you been in like a dressing room like that before?

[8:09] Ben Crawford: No, no, no. I mean, we were just like dudes. I mean, it's like a musical, like requires a lot of dudes. I mean, like the barricade was like, for me, at least it was like GI Joe's like growing up. Like, I mean, it was kind of, you kind of needed that kind of motivation, I suppose, you know, you're like fighting these guys on the other side of the barricade, all that kind of stuff. So it was a bunch of like dudes. But then we also had like Justin Bohan, who just like cracked everyone up. He was just like the driest.

[8:40] Mo Brady: Was there any part of like the cast or the show that like, was like you felt a little starstruck about when you?

[8:43] Ben Crawford: Yeah, I mean, there were people I mean, like Norm Lewis. I mean, he's such a fantastic guy. And like, I love like seeing him in auditions and we'll run into each other on the street. And he's so wonderful. Like, it was cool to work with him. And then Chip Zion came in. And I was like, Oh, my God, I'm working with two people from a new brain. I'm like, this is amazing. And then, you know, I eventually like years later, I got to work with Malcolm Getz. And I was like, Can I be the millionth person to tell you how much I love a new brain? And so I just like in my head, I'm like, Okay, how many people from the original cast of new brain have I worked with? I worked with Christian Chetoweth. I was like, I do you know that you're number four of the people, you know, so there are those things that you you get, you know, like in Harada, I'm like, Avenue Q, it's just like, Gary Beach, like Gary just thought, God rest him, like, it was just these just wonderful people.

And there's something I remember about Gary, Gary took a medical leave, and he came in one day. And I didn't see him that day. But he came in and grabbed a playbill because he had been out for like six weeks or so. And we'd had some people come in and out of the show. And he'd grabbed a playbill just so he could remember the so you could know the new people's names. Like, he like was that kind of guy. And like, that's the kind of thing and you see that and you're just like, Oh, wow, like, that's just like, really cool.

[10:00] Mo Brady: Do you have like a favorite memory of that experience?

[10:05] Ben Crawford: There's the memory that I have. It's not it didn't happen to me. But there was a there was a show where, like, essentially, what would happen to Nardieh and Andras had the same dresser. And so when Aaron Lazar was in in the show, his dresser, and we go do something, their dresser would come by tell Gary time to get ready. And then because Gary didn't have his like sound up, he would just know his dresser would come tell him. And so something happened was like one of like Max's first shows. And so the dresser didn't come tell him what it was going on. And like, you know that you need to start getting ready. And so the song starts and like, they're like, where's tonight? Like, where is he? I don't know.

Like people are trying to like vamp on stage. And I'm off stage. I'm one of the travelers to come on Andrew search was on as Javert. And so he like knocks on Gary's door and here come in. And he's like, he's like, Hey, Gary's like, Hey, Drew, what's going on? He's like, you're you're on right now. And you're like, jumped up and was like injustice pants and like undershirt and ran on stage. And like, imagine master of the house like you already you've missed like maybe 30 40% of it. And so you're gonna put all the energy into like that last 60%. He's like going up the octave. He's like pulling out bits that we had like it was the funniest, most amazing thing we had ever seen. I will say that was like a pretty amazing memory. And he comes off and he's like, I'm sorry, like he was so embarrassed. And we were like, that was incredible, Gary. Like, no, that was amazing. That was that was a pretty cool memory.

[11:37] Mo Brady: What surprised you most about working on Broadway at that point?

[11:43] Ben Crawford: The people were really wonderful. Everyone was like really like down to earth. And like, you know, for the most part, it was just like a like a great group of people who were like, having fun. I think it taught me a lot about the relationship. You know, talking about people like Norm and Alex and Gary, who were these principal leads, but just treated everyone like people. And I think that's something that I have been fortunate in my career, to be able to work with people who just are real and treat people like people. And I think when you when you are in that environment and see how how good it makes you feel, it's something that you just want to, you know, spread the love. So I think it was it was really fantastic to work with those guys and and to to see them like give that energy to everybody.

[12:38] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Ben Crawford for sharing his stories with us this week. You can learn more about him and how to connect with him online by visiting our website, TheEnsemblist.com. The Ensemblist was produced today by me, Mo Brady. You can help others find out about The Ensemblist by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. You can also download episodes wherever you get your podcasts or at TheEnsemblist.com. Follow The Ensemblist on Instagram to see the latest posts from our website where we are sharing the stories of talented artists working in Broadway ensembles. Thanks for listening, guys. Until next time!