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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to Super Swings, a miniseries from The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady.

[0:30] Mo Brady: Now it's been a few years since we shared stories from Broadway's superheroes, the Swings. These actors have some of the most challenging jobs in theater. Hero might not be each of their middle names, but they are definitely superheroes of Broadway. In general, Swings are hired to understudy multiple ensemble tracks on a show. They're asked to remember all of the lines, blocking, choreography, vocal harmonies, and backstage traffic for multiple roles. The number of roles they cover varies from show to show, but it's usually every role in the ensemble, sometimes of all genders. Last season, 288 actors worked as Swings on Broadway. That's literally a third of the performers working under Actors' Equity Chorus contracts.

When people say, the show must go on, Swings are usually the people who make that happen. Eliza Ohman is currently in the onstage ensemble and assistant dance captain of King Kong on Broadway. Her on-screen credits include Dancing in Fosse/Verdon and next season's opening episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. However, her first Broadway job was as a Swing on Hamilton. Working as the dance captain and universal Swing, she covered the five female ensemble roles in each of the show's four North American productions. Here's our conversation.

[1:53] Mo Brady: Will you introduce yourself and tell us what neighborhood of New York City you live in?

[2:13] Eliza Ohman: Oh yeah. Hi, I'm Eliza Ohman, and I live in Washington Heights or Hamilton Heights, depending on who you speak to in New York City.

[2:22] Mo Brady: And what's your current Broadway show?

[2:24] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, I'm currently in the ensemble of King Kong live on Broadway.

[2:29] Mo Brady: But before that, you were a member of Hamilton's Swing team, right?

[2:34] Eliza Ohman: Yes, correct.

[2:35] Mo Brady: For how long and what was your title there?

[2:36] Eliza Ohman: I was part of Hamilton for two years. So I initially started the show as their first female universal Swing. And I did that for a full year. We learned the show with the Chicago company and went out to Chicago for like tech and previews. And then shortly after we opened, I went back to New York and I like flipped back and forth between the two companies, maybe like three times. But in the course of that year, I became the assistant dance captain on Broadway. And then they just had me transition to being exclusively a full-time swing with New York and not being a universal anymore.

[3:08] Mo Brady: So how many companies did you end up going to?

[3:11] Eliza Ohman: I actually only performed with two of the companies, Chicago and Broadway. But I was part of the rehearsal process for all of the out of town companies ending with the Philip tour, which is the second national.

[3:22] Mo Brady: What was the first time you auditioned for Hamilton?

[3:24] Eliza Ohman: So I had such a weird Hamilton experience because I had seen the show and super never expected to be in it. So when I got called in, I called my agents. I was like, are you sure? I guess. So I went in and we learned I think that day Yorktown and then they made a cut and we had to sing. Then we made another cut and Andy like randomly showed up. So then we had to do Yorktown again. And a small group of us had to like sing for Tommy Kail one at a time. And like Alex Lacamoire, it was like the whole creative team was there because this was back in March of 2016. So when they were preparing for the first ensemble replacement of Original Company.

[4:01] Eliza Ohman: Then I went back in for the show like a week later and we did three more combinations and it was a full day and it was down to me and two other girls. So it was three of us at the end of the day and I didn't end up getting it. But then they asked me to be part of what's called a Hamilton boot camp, which is now like very standard for the show and then was like super unchartered territory. So the boot camp was a two week paid rehearsal process where they hired five men and five women. And we were each assigned an ensemble track. I learned Woman 2, which was Betsy Struckness's track in the show. We were basically like we tacked through my shot, Helpless Satisfied, 10 Duel, Stay Alive and Room Where It Happens.

We learned the vocals for those tracks. We learned the staging for those tracks. But the way they were kind of pitching it was that they didn't know what it was going to be to teach the show to brand new people because at this point in the show's life, they've had the entire company together since the workshops. So there's so much assumed knowledge that has never had to be explained or communicated or clarified. They have no idea how long it's going to take and they know they're launching a Chicago production. So we're like kind of auditioning to be future Broadway replacements. They weren't sure if there was going to be a mass exodus after the Tonys. And it was sort of like, let's get people ready in tracks we think we would hire them for.

But then there was also just an idea of like, how long is it going to take us to teach Chicago? And then after that, I think I had to come in for a one-on-one vocal session with Alex Lacamoire, like later that summer. He taught me two sections of the show just to see how quickly I picked up harmony lines. So I learned like, wait for it. And I had to learn the alto line and the soprano line. And it was like 15 minutes. And then that afternoon, I got my call that I was going to be the Universal Swing and they had no idea what that really was going to look like or mean.

[5:49] Mo Brady: From a contractual side, do you have two contracts then?

[5:52] Eliza Ohman: No. So a Universal Swing is always contracted by the Broadway company. So your home base is Broadway. Anytime you're not on the road, you're reporting to your Broadway theater every day. So it's kind of the biggest difference between a Universal Swing and a Vacation Swing. Whereas Vacation Swings are kind of booked week to week, depending on the company's needs. Universal Swings are full-time, always in New York, but you have a clause in your contract that essentially says they can fly you out to one of the other companies with as little as 24 hours notice. Generally, you're going to have quite a bit more than that in a show like Hamilton because they're going to base it off of planned vacations and knowing we're putting an understudy on this day and we just want a little extra coverage.

But when injuries happen or if it's because someone is leaving the company and you're filling in for them, sometimes that's a little bit quicker. So ultimately, why I ended up coming back to New York was because Carly Bettyall had turned in her notice as woman one and they hadn't hired her replacement yet. So they just sent me and I filled in for that track for like six weeks until her replacement was ready. And I got really lucky because in the midst of those six weeks, Morgan Marcel turned in her notice because she was joining Bandstand. So then New York was always down one swing. It's standard in Hamilton now. We have three female swings, three male swings that are full time. And then generally, also like either a vacation swing or universal swing with the company.

[7:18] Mo Brady: Jeez, that's a lot of coverage for 11 roles.

[7:21] Eliza Ohman: Yeah. And the reason we have to do that at Hamilton is because in some shows you can do what's called like a cut show where you can eliminate a track because ultimately what they offer, although everyone is super valuable in an ensemble, is mostly aesthetic and they don't have a piece of material that's essential to carrying the plot forward. So if they happened...

[7:41] Mo Brady: Well, it sounds like also because of safety issues, because so much of the set moves are by ensemble members in Hamilton.

[7:49] Eliza Ohman: So that's the thing is Hamilton, it is virtually impossible to do a cut show. There are two ensemble tracks that are like sort of cuttable, but you still have to have other company members fill in like exactly what you're talking about, a set and or prop move.

[8:03] Mo Brady: So you are hired as universal swing. No one really knows what this is, but they know you're going to start with a Chicago company. So you're in the room for the entire Chicago process and then you go out to Chicago with the company like the rest of that sit down company.

[8:19] Eliza Ohman: Okay. Just being like a normal swing.

[8:22] Mo Brady: Yeah. The difference being because I was contracted with New York, anytime I'm out of town, that means that they have to put me up. So they provide my housing and then I'm on per diem. So then you're not having to deal with the drama of like, oh, I don't know how long I'm going to be here. Where do I stay? Where do I live? Kind of a thing.

[8:39] Eliza Ohman: Got it. So there's some sort of corporate housing in Chicago that they're putting you up in. So how long were you in Chicago the first time?

[8:45] Eliza Ohman: Let's see. We went out there like September 12th and I think I left Chicago like October 28th or October 29th.

[8:52] Mo Brady: Jeez, that's fast.

[8:53] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, it was about six weeks because I was out there for all of tech, all of previews and then I left like a week or two after we opened.

[9:01] Mo Brady: And then that's the six week chunk that you were filling in for Woman 1 on Broadway?

[9:05] Eliza Ohman: When I left Chicago to go to New York, that's when I filled in for the Woman 1 track.

[9:17] Eliza Ohman: You would step in for them and like do, you know, a section of "Right Hand Man" until they come back from their costume fitting or whatever. But then sometimes, how different is Woman Two in Chicago versus Woman Two on Broadway? They are mostly similar. The main differences that start to come up are when you're dealing with the stage, it's a different size, so then sometimes like the spacing is different. So you're dealing with like different numbers, which in a show like Hamilton is significant because you're also, there are two turntables. So if you're standing on the wrong number, you might also now be on a moving surface that you should not be on. So there's like a little bit higher risk, and there's also like tables and chairs flying at you all the time, so like lots to look out for.

The main differences between, let's say, Woman Two in Chicago and New York, I would say in halfway through, Woman Two flips into what is normally Woman Four in the Broadway company. Once you know the New York version, that's like kind of how you organize it. And then we also separated out some of the features. I say we, I did not separate out the features. The creative team kind of separated out some of the female features. Woman Two does a different, she does like the whispering to the King bit that Woman Three on Broadway normally does. Otherwise, they're mostly similar. The stuff that really gets tricky with all the companies is that traffic and exits and entrances start to change. Some of that I think is intentional, and some of that is just sometimes like we're learning "Satisfied," so you're going to enter from this wing, you're going to enter from this wing, you're going to enter from this wing, and you're going to cross this person.

And then the people that heard that information either misheard or forgot or did it correctly but then crossed downstage of Man Five instead of upstage of Man Five, and then that's a traffic pattern that's been set and established. And then all of a sudden the show opens, and we're like, "Oh man, Woman Two and Man Five have different traffic." Oh well. And so it's like things like that that are not significant to the audience's eye and really aren't a big deal if you do them incorrectly but feel very significant to onstage company members because they do the show every night. So seeing a different person in a traffic pattern is like, "Wait, what's happening?" And it's already weird because you're seeing someone with different hair, so you're already like, the muscle memory feels out of whack.

So I would say the biggest difference that you see kind of across the board in all the companies is that. And then because just like traffic patterns naturally evolve, there are a lot of like really minute differences between the tracks. And then there are like choreographic changes that like Andy wanted in a certain company. He made an adjustment in "Schuyler Sisters" that he hasn't made in New York, and then they ended up making a different adjustment in "Angelica." And so then you have like three versions of the show existing, and then, oh, Chicago's been updated to match Angelica, but Broadway still does this version. And it's like little things like that that start to like mess with your brain when you're performing.

[12:38] Eliza Ohman: So what's cool about the structure of costumes in Hamilton is like each track has their own design. So the swings also have their own design. So as a universal swing, I was the only one in all of the companies that had my costumes because I could perform with any iteration of costume combinations in any of the companies. My own corset design, my own "One Last Time" coat, so on and so forth. And then there are specific pieces that are like unique to a track that I also had like my own set of. So I had like my own green dress that the actress wears in "Blow Us All Away," and then like my own quick release coat for like the King Whisper. But other than that, for the women at least, there aren't as many significant like individual pieces that are specific to a track feature.

[13:34] Eliza Ohman: No, it's like my costumes would just get like packed into a trunk and then like shipped to wherever I was going. But when I switched from being a universal swing to a full-time swing in New York, they had to make me a whole new set of costumes because I was taking over like the swing one costume plot. I was no longer a universal swing, and like Amber Artelino took over as a universal swing, so then she had to be made like the universal swing one costume plot.

[13:59] Eliza Ohman: So I was in Hamilton for two years. I think the only time I ever felt fully settled in a track was my last show. Not even when you were on for Woman One for six weeks? Yeah, I guess there's an element if you're like filling in for a track and you're doing it eight times a week and you're doing that over and over again, there's totally a time where it starts to feel comfortable. But in a show like Hamilton, because the swings are always on and it's very rarely the same show, whether that's because of understudies, swings, new company members, like the show is ever evolving, ever changing. So there's a certain element of each show feels so fresh and so new.

[14:47] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, it was. I was terrified. I was like, this would just be the worst possible way to find out that I am not good at this. It's still such a gag to me that Stephanie was like, "Oh yeah, this girl that's never done this before, you know what she'll be great at? Doing it for all the companies that are all going to be different." What a huge like test of faith. So appreciate the endorsement, and then at the same time I was like, "Oh my God, I have no idea what I'm doing."

[15:09] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, the coolest thing about swinging is that you get to do everything. You get to do all of the fun parts of the show that you love. So sometimes in a show, you know, people have different features and you're like, "Oh man, I love that moment. I bet that's so fun to do," and you never get to experience it. Chloe in King Kong has this amazing moment with like the dress change at the top of act two, and it looks so fun, and she does this like cute little solo slash dance with three boys, and it's darling, and I will never do that because I have my own track in that show. So when you are swinging, you get to be Sally, and you get to be in "Right Hand Man," and then you get to do a different feature like in "Blow Us All Away."

There's so much fun involved in it, and I also feel like you really get to experience the depth of the material in a different way because you're really forced to like know everything about it because you don't have the luxury of doing it eight times a week. Whereas now I do the same track eight shows a week, and there is a more conscious effort to make sure that it's still fresh and present.

[16:25] Eliza Ohman: Why I wanted to stop being a swing and do a track on stage or like what excited me about that experience was ultimately Hamilton is such a like rich experience. The material is so thoughtfully made, and when you hear it from Stephanie and Andy, you just think, "Oh my God, I want to create. I want to be in the space where those conversations happened. I don't want to just receive it as an afterthought a year later we've processed the information." So the idea of getting to originate material and be in the space where the material is being created thoughtfully was really exciting to me. And also, you know, being a swing is like the most thankless position. It's like exhausting, and like people don't know how much work it is, and sometimes they think you're not part of the company, and then like sometimes people are annoyed because a lift didn't go as well, and you're like, "I've never done it before.

I've never touched you. I went on in the middle of the show." Like it can be really fun, but there are things about it that are really hard. So I was just looking forward to like getting to have my own track and really explore what that does to your artistry as well, like how you grow when you're doing the same thing and how you can really dive into the material and find something new and keep it fresh.

[17:38] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Eliza Ohman for sharing her stories with us this week. You can learn more about her and how to connect with her online by visiting our website, theensemblist.com. The Ensemblist was produced today by me, Mo Brady. You guys, you can help others find out about The Ensemblist by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. These have been coming in, and they make my heart so happy when I see them. Thank you so much for those of you who have been leaving those, and if you haven't left one yet, there's still time. There's still infinity amount of time. So please, if you have a moment, just leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. You can also download episodes wherever you get your podcasts or at theensemblist.com, and make sure you're following us on Instagram to see the latest posts from our website, original photography, and some spectacular blog posts written by actors working on Broadway and around the country. Thanks for listening. Until next time.