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[0:00] Aaron Alvano: You're listening to Smash'ed from The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out.

[0:13] Mo Brady: I'm Mo Brady.

[0:30] Aaron Alvano: Welcome back listeners to our tongue-in-cheek recap of what is still the Broadway community's favorite TV show, Smash.

[0:37] Mo Brady: Yes, we're talking about the NBC series that aired from 2012 to 2013.

[0:42] Aaron Alvano: Smash was also an incredible glimpse into the theater community in the early 2010s, as many of the show's writers, actors, and dancers were played by real Broadway performers with real Broadway cred.

[0:53] Mo Brady: But we wanted to go back in time to see how the show has weathered, what it got right, and what it got very, very wrong.

[1:00] Aaron Alvano: So let's dive in and talk about Season 1, Episode 2, The Callback.

[1:04] Mo Brady: Aaron, give us the stats.

[1:06] Aaron Alvano: Don't mind if I do, Mo. Episode 2 is titled The Callback and it premiered on February 13, 2012.

[1:13] Mo Brady: Happy Valentine's Day.

[1:16] Aaron Alvano: It was written by Theresa Rebeck and directed by Michael Mayer, both of whom also wrote and directed the pilot.

[1:22] Mo Brady: Viewership took a big dip in the second episode. It was viewed by 8.06 million people, which was 26% down from the pilot episode.

[1:31] Aaron Alvano: So we loved the pilot, but 3 million people did not.

[1:34] Mo Brady: I guess, right?

[1:36] Aaron Alvano: There were four featured songs, two original by Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman, and two covers.

[1:41] Mo Brady: The two originals were a different version of Let Me Be Your Star from the previous episode and a new song called The 20th Century Fox Mambo.

[1:49] Aaron Alvano: And what happens in the episode, Mo?

[1:51] Mo Brady: Well, the episode begins with the Bombshell creative team mulling over whether they are hashtag Team Ivy or hashtag Team Karen.

[1:59] Aaron Alvano: Tom and Julia are playing with the show's structure, moving songs around as director Derek takes Karen and Ivy through dance auditions.

[2:06] Mo Brady: However, Tom tells Ivy, "I would have just given it to you."

[2:10] Aaron Alvano: Yes, he does.

[2:12] Mo Brady: Karen stays late for a work session, missing an important business dinner of her boyfriend's, Dev.

[2:18] Aaron Alvano: Ivy takes the challenge of competition for the role head on, reading biographies, watching movies, practicing Marilyn's lip placement, and eventually having sex with the director.

[2:30] Mo Brady: There we go. In the final auditions, Karen performs a full-staged version of 20th Century Fox Mambo, surrounded by ensemblists, which Derek justifies by telling Eileen, Tom, and Julia, "Oh guys, the song was just so good that we went ahead and staged the whole thing."

[2:47] Aaron Alvano: So we have these two women pitted against each other. Karen is green, but she is certainly trained.

[2:52] Mo Brady: Ivy is completely spontaneous and sexy.

[2:55] Aaron Alvano: Ivy comes out on top. As the orchestra swells, she cries, but Eileen and Derek agree to keep their eye on Karen Cartwright.

[3:02] Mo Brady: Also, Dev works at City Hall, and Julia pursues adopting a baby from China that her son Leo wants, but her husband Frank doesn't, but nobody cares.

[3:27] Aaron Alvano: So in the second episode, we have this work session for Karen. She's learning some of the choreography, right?

[3:33] Mo Brady: And she's learning with four dancers, yes?

[3:37] Aaron Alvano: Yes.

[3:38] Mo Brady: Yeah. Because I knew Philip, Spaith, Eleanor Scott, Ricky Tripp, but I didn't know who the last one was.

[3:44] Aaron Alvano: Oh, it's Christine Covello.

[3:45] Mo Brady: Oh, okay. She was fantastic. I mean, they were all fantastic.

[3:48] Aaron Alvano: Right. I didn't know her.

[3:50] Mo Brady: No, she lasted on The Town was her last Broadway gig.

[3:51] Aaron Alvano: Oh, nice. I think she's a new mom.

[3:53] Mo Brady: I also got to see the women in the dream sequence.

[3:55] Aaron Alvano: Oh my God.

[3:56] Mo Brady: The opening of the show. Like the opening where they're kind of brainstorming what that would look like.

[4:00] Aaron Alvano: Right.

[4:01] Mo Brady: First off, that section of the show, when they introduced that as the opening, I was like, I could be on board with this opening of the show.

[4:08] Aaron Alvano: Who was in there?

[4:09] Mo Brady: It was Katie Weber, Savannah Weiss, Jess Golden, and then the two?

[4:14] Aaron Alvano: Yes.

[4:15] Mo Brady: Yeah. The one thing I thought was like, Savannah is stage left and she's like in a pose with one leg out or something. And I was like, that would be a really uncomfortable pose to be in.

[4:24] Aaron Alvano: Take after take after take after take.

[4:26] Mo Brady: When you're on stage and you're doing a tableau, you're like, oh, this is, you want to pick something that your body can do kind of like eight times a week for however long you need to do it.

[4:36] Aaron Alvano: Yeah.

[4:37] Mo Brady: But when you're doing something on set, it's like, I just need to pick something that I can do for six hours today.

[4:41] Aaron Alvano: Oh, for sure.

[4:45] Mo Brady: What I think is interesting is that we're seeing the same dancers over and over again.

[4:49] Aaron Alvano: Oh, for sure.

[4:51] Mo Brady: Part of that is obviously just the production of Smash has these people in their back pocket. They know their phone numbers. They know whose agents to call.

[4:57] Aaron Alvano: Right.

[5:01] Mo Brady: But what's cool from sort of a meta point is we are building an ensemble.

[5:06] Aaron Alvano: Oh, for sure. I mean, it's definitely like a subconscious nod to the way this business works.

[5:12] Mo Brady: These people are Derek's people and that he's going to carry with the show from beginning through if he trusts them.

[5:20] Aaron Alvano: All right.

[5:21] Mo Brady: All right. How do you like this episode, Mel?

[5:24] Aaron Alvano: It's our very first time in the Smash rehearsal room, which I love.

[5:27] Mo Brady: I love that Smash rehearsal room. That feels iconic to me.

[5:29] Aaron Alvano: I love the fake background.

[5:30] Mo Brady: Oh, yeah. It looks like we're somewhere on like 25th Street looking north between 5th and 6th Avenues to the Empire State Building.

[5:40] Aaron Alvano: You never clocked that?

[5:41] Mo Brady: No, not at all.

[5:42] Aaron Alvano: Oh, yeah. Fun fact about that rehearsal room, that big window is fake.

[5:47] Mo Brady: Yeah.

[5:48] Aaron Alvano: That window that is to the right of the mirrors is real.

[5:52] Mo Brady: Oh, really?

[5:53] Aaron Alvano: Yeah. See, I was never in that room, so I had no idea.

[5:57] Mo Brady: I rehearsed and was held in that room a lot because literally next to that room was the black box theater that Hit List used in Act 2.

[6:05] Aaron Alvano: Oh.

[6:06] Mo Brady: All right. See, because I knew all of this was just like in sound stages.

[6:09] Aaron Alvano: Yeah.

[6:10] Mo Brady: Yeah. All right. We're getting ahead of ourselves. I love being in the rehearsal room and I loved the work session that Karen has.

[6:17] Aaron Alvano: I thought that was fun.

[6:18] Mo Brady: It was a full work session.

[6:19] Aaron Alvano: Right. A full just Marilyn boot camp.

[6:23] Mo Brady: Explain what a boot camp is.

[6:24] Aaron Alvano: So a boot camp, if you heard from previous episodes of The Ensemblist, basically like a week-long faux audition where you learn multiple numbers from shows.

[6:33] Mo Brady: I remember like Tracy Boot Camp.

[6:35] Aaron Alvano: Yeah. Jersey Boys Boot Camp.

[6:37] Mo Brady: Yeah. And Hamilton Boot Camp.

[6:39] Aaron Alvano: Hamilton Boot Camp.

[6:40] Mo Brady: And...

[6:41] Aaron Alvano: But those you get paid for.

[6:42] Mo Brady: Yes.

[6:43] Aaron Alvano: This was not.

[6:44] Mo Brady: Yes. Anyone got paid nowhere.

[6:46] Aaron Alvano: No.

[6:47] Mo Brady: I'm not going to give sex to anyone.

[6:48] Aaron Alvano: Well, she doesn't have any money as we find out later. It's all in escrow.

[6:51] Mo Brady: Yeah.

[6:52] Aaron Alvano: Favorite moments of it are when Derek yells into the phone, "We'll get back to you, Bernie," as a nod to Bernie Telsey, but never gets explained.

[7:01] Mo Brady: Like you're inside.

[7:02] Aaron Alvano: The insiders.

[7:03] Mo Brady: Complete.

[7:04] Aaron Alvano: Yes. Well, the insiders are rampant. Joe Mahota, a shout out.

[7:07] Mo Brady: Mm-hmm.

[7:08] Aaron Alvano: Oh, a cameo by Jordan Roth.

[7:11] Mo Brady: Pre-fashionista Jordan Roth. This is shaved head version of Jordan Roth.

[7:17] Aaron Alvano: They're in Old Bond 45.

[7:18] Mo Brady: Yeah. I was like, they're in Bond 45.

[7:20] Aaron Alvano: Oh. Tom Kitt at the end.

[7:22] Mo Brady: Tom Kitt?

[7:23] Aaron Alvano: Yes.

[7:24] Mo Brady: Tom Kitt like hosting the duplex or something.

[7:25] Aaron Alvano: Yeah, exactly.

[7:27] Mo Brady: Who is the composer of Next to Normal?

[7:28] Aaron Alvano: Mm-hmm.

[7:29] Mo Brady: Yeah. And like quite, he's probably not hosting at the duplex.

[7:31] Aaron Alvano: No.

[7:32] Mo Brady: Not even a little bit. We also got our very first drink to the face count, which I feel like was like a thing that Smash ended up becoming known for.

[7:37] Aaron Alvano: Eileen throws a drink into Jerry's face.

[7:44] Mo Brady: And it became iconic.

[7:45] Aaron Alvano: Yes. It became the first martini!

[7:47] Mo Brady: Exclamation point.

[7:48] Aaron Alvano: Yeah. Other favorite moments of the episode?

[7:50] Mo Brady: Well, we got into this last episode, but let's continue on Tom's relationship with Ivy, because it really takes a spike where I'm just like, what is your relationship with Ivy?

[7:56] Aaron Alvano: I wrote, Tom's investment in Ivy borders on inappropriate.

[8:01] Mo Brady: The way they're arguing about who is more appropriate, Team Ivy or Team Karen, there is no objectivity there whatsoever.

[8:12] Aaron Alvano: Oh, sure. Completely not.

[8:13] Mo Brady: Which there is a level of like being in someone's corner, but there's another one where you're just, she's the person and that's all.

[8:21] Aaron Alvano: Is that because people like Tom and Derek are archetypes? Because we just don't have enough time in an hour-long television episode to like, let Tom go on a journey to like be in Karen's court and then come back and be in Ivy's court.

[8:35] Mo Brady: I don't think so. Even from the pilot, and granted, be inspired by your friend Ivy, who recorded your first demo. Now you're in production and now you have to find the best person for the job.

[8:48] Aaron Alvano: And being completely resistant to all the points that Derek and Eileen are making, and Julia are making very strongly about how as ugly as we ensemblists find this idea, is that yes, pure talent does not sell a show.

[9:05] Mo Brady: Star quality is different than ensemble talent.

[9:07] Aaron Alvano: Yeah. And whether Ivy has that or not, them putting up Scarlett Johansson, them suggesting these other names that could very well do the role, they just haven't seen them yet.

[9:20] Mo Brady: Tom is completely resistant to. Tom is like, Ivy or no one. And I'm just like, that's...

[9:25] Aaron Alvano: That's not how you get a show produced.

[9:26] Mo Brady: Yeah. And I'm just like, we're casting right now, bro. You need to see all these people and keep an open mind.

[9:33] Aaron Alvano: When he says, you know, "I would have just given it to you." That's great. And I'm also like, if you're as close to this woman as you know, as we know you are, you know how she'll react and respond and like enabling that behavior.

[9:48] Mo Brady: She's an extra woman.

[9:49] Aaron Alvano: Yeah. And I'm just like...

[9:51] Mo Brady: Can we call her extra Ivy from now on?

[9:52] Aaron Alvano: Extra Ivy.

[9:53] Mo Brady: Perfect. Hashtag extra Ivy.

[9:55] Aaron Alvano: And even at the end when he goes out of his way to come to the theater, which is very sweet and very nice, but also I'm just like, you are lifting her up to have a massive fall.

[10:06] Mo Brady: It's not the smartest, like you can be for her all you want, but like there is a level of professionalism that is not being observed in their relationship.

[10:16] Aaron Alvano: At least the one that we see on the show.

[10:18] Mo Brady: I want to ask about another Albano fact check.

[10:21] Aaron Alvano: Oh, okay.

[10:22] Mo Brady: This director hates this composer.

[10:25] Aaron Alvano: Yes. Have you seen that?

[10:38] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Welcome back to The Ensemblist. Today, we’re diving into Episode 2 of Smash, titled “The Callback.”

[11:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: In this episode, the Bombshell creative team is torn between #TeamIvy and #TeamKaren as they navigate the complexities of casting.

[11:38] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Tom and Julia are experimenting with the show’s structure, moving songs around, while director Derek puts Karen and Ivy through their paces in dance auditions.

[12:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Tom expresses his bias towards Ivy, saying, “I would have just given it to you,” highlighting the competitive atmosphere.

[12:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Meanwhile, Karen stays late for a work session, missing an important dinner with her boyfriend, Dev, which adds tension to her personal life.

[12:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Ivy, on the other hand, embraces the competition, diving into research about Marilyn Monroe, practicing her lip placement, and even getting involved with the director.

[13:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: As the final auditions approach, Karen performs a fully staged version of “20th Century Fox Mambo,” surrounded by ensemblists, showcasing her training.

[13:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Derek justifies the staging to Eileen, Tom, and Julia, saying, “Oh guys? The song was so good that we just went ahead and staged the whole thing.”

[13:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: While Karen is technically skilled, Ivy brings a spontaneous and sexy energy to her performance.

[14:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Ultimately, Ivy comes out on top, moved to tears as the orchestra swells around her.

[14:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: However, Eileen and Derek agree to keep an eye on Karen Cartwright, indicating that the competition is far from over.

[14:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: In the subplot, we learn that Dev works at City Hall, while Julia is pursuing the idea of adopting a baby from China, which creates conflict with her husband, Frank.

[15:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: This episode really highlights the personal and professional stakes involved in the world of Broadway, especially for ensemble performers.

[15:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Stay tuned as we continue to explore the dynamics of Smash and the impact of ensemble performers in the theater community.

[15:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ensemblist.

[16:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: We appreciate your support and look forward to sharing more stories of Broadway’s unsung heroes.

[16:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Until next time, keep celebrating the ensemble!

[16:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: Goodbye!

[17:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: This has been a production of The Ensemblist and the Broadway Podcast Network.

[17:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: For more information, visit our website and follow us on social media.

[17:48] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: We’ll see you next time!

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[18:28] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: We hope you enjoyed this episode.

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