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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady.

[0:20] Mo Brady: In our recent episodes about touring Broadway, actors Josh Burridge and Sabrina Imamura shared with us some of the joys and struggles of touring with A Bronx Tale, Newsies, and Hamilton. But while they each have had significant experience on the road, one thing neither of them were able to speak to was going on the road as a parent. That's why I found this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud so intriguing. Mama's Talkin' Loud is a new parenting podcast hosted by two of the co-founders of Broadway Baby Mamas, Cara Cooper and Jessica Rush. In addition to being mothers of young children, each has also been on Broadway this year, Cooper in The Prom and Rush in both Dear Evan Hansen and Tina: The Tina Turner Musical.

In this recent episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud, Rush and Cooper spoke to Becky Gulsvig and Megan McGinnis, both of whom recently finished touring with Come From Away with young children in tow. Between their discussions of travel days and searching for nannies, I found it a fascinating conversation, which is why I wanted to share it with all of you. It's a perfect companion piece to our touring Broadway miniseries, which is why I'm so grateful Jessica and Cara are allowing us to share it in our feed today. Here's their conversation.

[1:31] Cara Cooper: Hey everybody, welcome back. It's Cara Cooper and Jessica Rush. We are here with Megan McGinnis and Becky Gulsvig talking all things tour life.

[2:05] Jessica Rush: Hey everybody, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud. Today we have the wonderful Megan McGinnis and Becky Gulsvig. Thank you so much for being here, ladies.

[2:19] Becky Gulsvig: Hi, thanks for having us.

[2:20] Megan McGinnis: Thanks for having us.

[2:21] Jessica Rush: And we are going to talk about what it's like to tour once you are a mom.

[2:26] Becky Gulsvig: Oh boy.

[2:27] Jessica Rush: Lots of that, I bet. For those of you listening who don't necessarily know what touring is all about, when you're young it is kind of, I don't know, the best thing ever.

[2:36] Megan McGinnis: I loved being on tour.

[2:37] Becky Gulsvig: I did too. You get to see the country, you have very little responsibility besides doing the show at night, or your matinee. You get to live in hotels where people clean for you and you get a per diem, you get to eat out all the time, you're living the high life.

[2:59] Jessica Rush: But when you are a mom, it becomes a completely different situation. But before we jump into that, how about we talk about your children, how old your children are, their names, that sort of thing.

[3:12] Becky Gulsvig: You go ahead, Becky.

[3:13] Becky Gulsvig: Okay. I have one child, her name is Hazel and she's eight. She's in third grade.

[3:18] Megan McGinnis: Third grade.

[3:19] Becky Gulsvig: Already?

[3:20] Jessica Rush: She's a giant.

[3:21] Becky Gulsvig: Oh my gosh.

[3:22] Megan McGinnis: Giant human.

[3:23] Becky Gulsvig: I thought she was in first or second.

[3:24] Megan McGinnis: Nope.

[3:25] Becky Gulsvig: Wow.

[3:26] Jessica Rush: Sorry.

[3:27] Becky Gulsvig: She's a big kid.

[3:28] Megan McGinnis: Yeah.

[3:29] Megan McGinnis: I have one child as well, my son Beckett and I keep saying he's two and a half, but he's nearing three.

[3:34] Jessica Rush: When's his birthday?

[3:36] Megan McGinnis: January.

[3:37] Jessica Rush: January.

[3:38] Becky Gulsvig: My son's going to be three at the end of October, so they're the same-ish age.

[3:43] Becky Gulsvig: And Becky and Megan just got off the Come From Away tour.

[3:47] Megan McGinnis: Yes.

[3:48] Becky Gulsvig: Literally, Megan just got off.

[3:49] Megan McGinnis: I stepped off the plane and came here.

[3:51] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah, basically.

[3:52] Megan McGinnis: Essentially.

[3:53] Becky Gulsvig: She got home yesterday, so jumping back into the swing of it all.

[3:58] Jessica Rush: So I kind of want to talk about and jump in just obviously, what was it like from say the moment you even got the audition for a tour and what that felt like, looked like as you went into that room thinking, if I book this, my life is going to change so dramatically. And Becky, you have two perspectives on this because you also toured with Hazel when she was super young.

[4:25] Becky Gulsvig: When she was four.

[4:26] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[4:27] Becky Gulsvig: And this...

[4:28] Megan McGinnis: On Beautiful.

[4:30] Becky Gulsvig: Yep.

[4:31] Becky Gulsvig: With Beautiful. And this time, you went that way.

[4:33] Megan McGinnis: I went Sons, Child and Family.

[4:36] Jessica Rush: So let's talk about the audition. What was your mindset going in?

[4:40] Megan McGinnis: Go Meg.

[4:42] Megan McGinnis: My husband's also an actor, so in some ways, maybe that makes it easier, maybe that makes it harder. I'm actually not sure. And he got the audition first, so when he came home and said, oh, I have to audition for the Come From Away tour, and I said, okay. So you're not going, so why are you telling me? He said, no, I think we should both audition for it. I said, oh, that's great, but I don't have an audition for it. So he said, uh-huh, I know. Call your agents and get an audition.

[5:12] Jessica Rush: Right.

[5:13] Megan McGinnis: Right. Totally easier said than done. You are making the guess.

[5:16] Becky Gulsvig: No, no.

[5:17] Megan McGinnis: I tried. I failed. I did not get an audition. Adam had his first audition and then got a call back. And then my agents called again and said, hey, you know, Adam has a call back. You might want to just consider Megan, because I'm not Adam's agent, but most likely Adam won't do it if Megan doesn't get it. So let's just consider the two of them. So a little bit of back and forth, and I finally got an audition. And I think we were both pretty certain it wouldn't work out. I mean, when do you actually both get the same job? And we went through the whole audition process just like, oh, this is cool, this is fun. And I think I had my last audition on Thursday, on a Thursday, and he had his on a Friday. And then Monday, we were on a plane to Raleigh. I was directing Daddy Long Legs at Lorne Kennedy's theater down there, got off the plane, and we both had messages from our agents, and we were like, oh, wow, are we allowed to curse on this show?

[6:13] Jessica Rush: Definitely.

[6:15] Megan McGinnis: Go for it. Yeah. It was just like, shit. So as excited as we were about the jobs, I think we hadn't thought of the reality at all. We just knew it was possible. Our child's not in school yet. It's the perfect time, right? But I didn't consider what that meant on a day-to-day basis. So everything's sort of, I'm very type A, and I like making lists and planning. It's really impossible to plan for an entire year on tour. I wanted all my sitters set up before we left.

[6:49] Jessica Rush: Right.

[6:50] Megan McGinnis: I mean, that was impossible. So I think I started by posting on our Facebook group, on Broadway Baby Mama's Facebook group, and just asking, hey, who's done this, and who has advice? And it's amazing how many moms have done it. And then luckily, Becky also got the job, has obviously toured with her child before, and she was a great resource, too. I think we sort of went from, are we going to do this, to just doing it without really figuring out how. All that sort of came later. I think that's a big part of parenthood in general, right?

[7:26] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah.

[7:27] Megan McGinnis: You're like, well, we've got to do this, so we're just going to figure it out. Having a baby, so I guess we'll take care of it, and let it jump.

[7:34] Jessica Rush: Exactly. How about you, Becky?

[7:37] Becky Gulsvig: Well, each tour audition was different. With Beautiful, Hazel was in preschool, so same sort of flexibility knowing that we could go. And I hadn't done a big show in a while since I'd had her. I'd done a lot of regional stuff and some off-Broadway, but I loved Beautiful, and my husband was really not liking his job at the time. And so, the phone call for that one went, I got it. You can quit your job. Let's all go. We rented out the house, we piled in the car, brought the dog. And for Come From Away, I got the appointment via email, and I just kind of laughed because I was obsessed with the show, but I thought I fell through the cracks. I wasn't sure where I fit role-wise. And so I was like, well, I'll go in, but I'm not going to get this yet.

I just didn't think I was age-appropriate yet or whatever it was. I didn't think I would be so lucky. But Tyler said, okay, but I don't think we can come on this one. I was like, okay, well, I want to be in the show someday, somewhere, somehow. So I'll go in, and it kept going well, and I had a phone call with my agent, and I said, I don't know if I can do this. He goes, well, then you have to stop because I think you might actually get this. I was like, okay. So I talked to Tyler, and I went to my final call back, and it all felt so great. And that phone call, I came downstairs, and I said, I got it, and it was the most amazing look of joy, wonder, and oh, shit, from him. He was just like, I don't know how we do this.

And it took a while to figure out how we would do it. I couldn't just say yes because I logistically had to work it out. And luckily, we're both on the other side now. We did work it out in very different ways, which I'm sure we'll get into.

[9:30] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[9:31] Megan McGinnis: For sure.

[9:32] Jessica Rush: So both of you, either of you toured before becoming mothers.

[9:36] Becky Gulsvig: Yes.

[9:37] Megan McGinnis: Yes.

[9:38] Jessica Rush: So that's, I mean, that's like a party, right?

[9:40] Becky Gulsvig: Oh, my gosh.

[9:41] Megan McGinnis: Much more of a party.

[9:42] Becky Gulsvig: Lots more sleeping in.

[9:43] Jessica Rush: Much more.

[9:44] Megan McGinnis: Yeah, exactly. Just like lounging in the bed.

[9:46] Becky Gulsvig: I was 20.

[9:47] Jessica Rush: Oh, wow.

[9:48] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah.

[9:49] Megan McGinnis: Dreams, right?

[9:50] Becky Gulsvig: I remember being so tired, though.

[9:51] Megan McGinnis: Oh, I know.

[9:52] Becky Gulsvig: From what?

[9:53] Megan McGinnis: It's laughable.

[9:54] Becky Gulsvig: I know.

[9:55] Jessica Rush: I know.

[9:56] Megan McGinnis: But I guess the upside is that you'd toured before, so you knew what it looked like, right? You weren't like stepping out on the road for the first time not knowing-

[10:01] Becky Gulsvig: True.

[10:02] Megan McGinnis: ... what it actually entailed. But boy, that travel day takes on a whole new weight, I'm sure, when you're with your child in the airport or driving. I mean-

[10:10] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah.

[10:11] Megan McGinnis: ... driving with a dog. I remember you posting pictures, and I just thought, how are they doing that? My husband and I toured with our dog, too, but it was just our dog. We had no children yet. And that was like, you know, felt like a big deal. I can't believe you added a child into the car.

[10:25] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah.

[10:26] Megan McGinnis: We've done every version now, it seems like.

[10:27] Becky Gulsvig: Oh, yeah.

[10:28] Megan McGinnis: Because you did-

[10:29] Becky Gulsvig: Because we did one with-

[10:30] Megan McGinnis: ... with just Greta, the dog.

[10:31] Becky Gulsvig: Just Greta, that's right.

[10:32] Megan McGinnis: And then one with kid, and then one with me going zigzag all over the country.

[10:37] Becky Gulsvig: Crazy.

[10:38] Jessica Rush: Well, let us talk about, with all that and being on the road, what the logistics of being on the road with your child or without. It's like, what more comes into play? I'm sure we can sort of guess, but truly, clue us in as to how you find the sitters and how you figure it out, and you drove-

[10:46] Becky Gulsvig: What does travel day look like?

[11:01] Becky Gulsvig: ... travel day, and what is that for you?

[11:04] Megan McGinnis: I would say the biggest issue for me was childcare. I know some parents have found it very helpful to have a nanny travel with them. We just didn't think that was a viable option for us. I don't think we considered it long enough. Now that I look back on it-

[11:21] Becky Gulsvig: I did throw it your way at the beginning.

[11:23] Megan McGinnis: Yes, you did. But you nailed it. Now I'm remembering that, Becky. I love you.

[11:28] Megan McGinnis: Yeah, wow. I think we really should have done that, but we didn't. I don't know if we just decided. I think monetarily, we just didn't think that it would be as beneficial as having two salaries and wanting to save that money, and also the housing. So per our contract, we each get a hotel room, right? So Adam has a contract. I have a contract. We get two hotel rooms. I suppose we could have given the nanny one hotel room, but we didn't want to live in one hotel room with the three of us. Beckett had been in his own room for a fair amount of time, still in a crib, and he was doing really great, and I think that was a very big part of it for us, that we wanted some space. We also felt signing for a year contract was considered normal, but it felt like a long time.

So to decide that ahead of time, that for a year we would all be in one room and we would be finding somebody for a whole year. Of course, now someone posted the other day, like, oh, we'll have like three or four nannies for this year-long tour. Oh, that's a good idea, too. Next time.

[12:33] Becky Gulsvig: Next time.

[12:35] Megan McGinnis: So we just decided, we brought a babysitter for tech rehearsals in Yakima, where we started, and that was it. And then we found babysitters everywhere else, and it was my other job.

[12:49] Becky Gulsvig: Yeah. I mean, I know what it's like here, just trying to line up sitters and the nightmare of it all. Megan was superhuman. I don't know how she did it.

[12:56] Megan McGinnis: Well, you were superhuman, too. We'll get into that.

[13:01] Becky Gulsvig: We have different skills.

[13:04] Megan McGinnis: I just started posting on Facebook every city we'd go to, and we were lucky that we almost always had a friend of a friend or a friend of a friend of a friend or a friend of a friend of a friend. I remember in Denver, we had, I think there was, oh, I would post on Theater Moms, too, the Facebook group Theater Moms, and a stage manager who had two twin boys was like, yeah, I'll come over. I'll take care of your kid. Like, you have your own kids. I mean, it's just amazing what our community can do for each other, how we rally around each other like that. She was amazing. And she also took him, we took him to see his first show in a theater there, Corduroy.

[13:44] Becky Gulsvig: Yes.

[13:45] Megan McGinnis: Because she was stage managing it. And he actually sat through it. It was amazing. So, yeah, Adam was a standby. His job was to learn five of the six male tracks, and my other job was to find babysitters. Like, that's what we did. He would learn his lines and his blocking, and I would find babysitters.

[14:01] Jessica Rush: This is my year. Just the stress of finding babysitters. It's so real. And we were lucky for about three or four months.

[14:09] Cara Cooper: Harder Klingman who plays Oz, his girlfriend Ashley was traveling with him.

[14:13] Jessica Rush: Ashley.

[14:14] Cara Cooper: Ashley, as Beckett says. And she was our babysitter. And those were the best three months of my life.

[14:20] Jessica Rush: Right. Oh my gosh. Just knowing that that was taken care of.

[14:24] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[14:25] Jessica Rush: And you could actually enjoy the cities and you could go out and take Beckett to see all the things.

[14:29] Cara Cooper: Yeah, that was the other thing too, was filling the time.

[14:32] Jessica Rush: Some parents had suggested drop-off care. But we didn't find that viable.

[14:38] Cara Cooper: We had a lot of one-weekers in the middle there and he seemed a little young for it.

[14:44] Jessica Rush: Yeah, it just wasn't what we wanted to do.

[14:47] Cara Cooper: So filling our days with all the playgrounds and all the zoos and all the aquariums.

[14:52] Jessica Rush: I actually don't remember which zoos we've seen and which we haven't anymore.

[14:55] Cara Cooper: So many.

[14:56] Jessica Rush: So many. I feel like what a great time for him to be with you guys. You know what I mean? It's like you'd never get that time back when they're that little.

[15:00] Cara Cooper: And I would have chosen the same. I would not have wanted to put Elliot somewhere for daycare in a random city and then put her in another one the next week.

[15:10] Jessica Rush: So much change already. Having to make new friends. Yeah, exactly. So I mean what a gift you had to be able. And you also, Becky, when you took Hazel, it's like to have that time with them.

[15:21] Becky Gulsvig: So much.

[15:23] Jessica Rush: So much time. But also the memories and sort of just the connection that you're forming with them and that whole new level is super special.

[15:30] Cara Cooper: And it sets up a base of them being flexible. Like I traveled with Hazel the year after Beautiful, and we happened to stay in a hotel, and I watched her. We walked in. She took her bag, unpacked it, put it on the stand, put her shoes in place, put her books on a thing, put her hair. I was like, what's happening?

[15:49] Becky Gulsvig: Oh.

[15:50] Cara Cooper: You know how to do this. She knows how to do this. We hadn't traveled in seven months, and she was like, oh, yeah, I live here. This is my spot. This is my shelf.

[15:57] Jessica Rush: Wow.

[15:58] Cara Cooper: And I said, Haz, I was like, thanks for being so game to come with me on this. And she goes, oh, Mom, I was born to travel.

[16:04] Jessica Rush: Oh.

[16:07] Cara Cooper: You were. Yes, you were. Good job, kiddo.

[16:11] Jessica Rush: Oh, my gosh. Beckett's actually started asking for when we would go to a hotel, we would say it's our new home. And now that we're home, he says, I want to go to new home.

[16:19] Cara Cooper: Oh.

[16:20] Jessica Rush: Too bad. This is it. We bought this one. We're stuck with it.

[16:26] Cara Cooper: Isn't it so incredible, I think, about before Facebook, that has been an incredible resource for so many women in our group reaching out to find sitters or just connections in other cities to support you through this mom journey.

[16:39] Jessica Rush: It's one of the good things about social media.

[16:42] Cara Cooper: I have a lot of feelings about it.

[16:44] Jessica Rush: I'm sure we all do. But I feel like it is such an incredible resource for specific things like this.

[16:49] Cara Cooper: Yeah. I feel very lucky that Facebook exists. I really do. I wouldn't have made it through.

[16:54] Jessica Rush: I would say, you'd probably say that's probably the most difficult thing.

[16:57] Cara Cooper: Babysitters?

[16:58] Jessica Rush: Being on tour, yeah.

[16:59] Cara Cooper: Absolutely. I think everything you do as a mom, the most tricky thing is child care.

[17:03] Jessica Rush: Yeah. Because anything you want to do is dependent on you finding someone to watch your people.

[17:08] Cara Cooper: Yep. And it's the most important thing. The most important thing is never the job anymore. It's how you make it happen and how you take care of life at home while you do the thing that is second most important to you now.

[17:19] Jessica Rush: Well, and I'm sure, even though Hazel wasn't with you, I'm sure you were still, I mean, my husband's great, but I know that even when I was in La Jolla, I was still having to like figure things out, make appointments, do the things. I mean, you've got, you know, Tyler's awesome, but I'm sure you were still having to mom and help find child care or make her appointments or do the things even though you were away.

[17:39] Cara Cooper: So it wasn't like you check out.

[17:41] Jessica Rush: Oh, no, I did not check out. I'm just like laying around, going to the spa, working out.

[17:47] Cara Cooper: Did you add up all your miles from flying back? How did you make it all work?

[17:51] Jessica Rush: I wanted to count my flights.

[17:52] Cara Cooper: Yeah. Cause I, yeah. Cause the first tour we were all together and Tyler wasn't working, so he was super dad. So kudos, my love, well done. And same for this past year. We had an au pair. That was the big thing that made it work.

[18:04] Jessica Rush: And so she lived in and she was guaranteed a certain amount of hours a week. And so Hazel had someone steady cause Tyler works really early and you can't have a babysitter cancel at five in the morning. That doesn't work.

[18:17] Cara Cooper: So, so yeah, so we had Lena who was wonderful and I took red eyes back. We were on the West coast for the first five months. So on Sunday night I'd hop the red eye, come back be home for breakfast and the walk to school. And I usually could do drop off on Tuesday. Sometimes not. Sometimes they take me to the airport first, but the good news about the West coast, the flights I could sleep on the flight back. And then on the way back to the West coast, I get three hours back so I could land, take a big fat nap and go to the show.

[18:47] Jessica Rush: Um, so I double traveled every week. And then if, once we started really hopping almost every three or four weeks, they would come out. Um, cause luckily he worked half weeks. So he was not only around a little more at home for half the week, but then they could come and visit me. And then if there was a holiday, we'd stretch the weekend. You know, I called the school district and I was like, so how many days can name and there really wasn't a straight answer other than you couldn't miss so many consecutively or you'd have to give up your spot. And so I took every little additional Monday, every little extra tack onto a long weekend, that kind of thing.

[19:25] Cara Cooper: Um, and she'd travel with our au pair sometimes and we just did like a big fat balls in the air juggle. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I mean I was a face timing at five in the morning from the West coast at breakfast to say good morning. Good luck at school. And I'd say the worst part, one happened. I know when we were in Banff, they let me tag along. I was their friend on the couch. We went to experience the beauty of Banff and we had a terrible face time morning. I woke up early to call her and, um, you can't fight over FaceTime. You cannot discipline over FaceTime. You cannot clarify cause it's, it's a stupid screen. It's not real. You can't lay the smack down. You can't fix problems. You can't, can't give a hug, you know?

[20:11] Jessica Rush: So, um, she was upset about something and it was something lame, but it was all the feelings of other things coming through it. I just remember just like getting frustrated and having to tell her I have to hang up because this is not going to get any better. I love you. You are cared for. Have a good day at school. I'm, I'm going, I'm going, no, no, I'm going to hang up now. I love you. I'll talk to you after school. And just having to hang up and like toss the phone on the couch and be like, I love you too. So there were a few hard mornings like that, but ultimately everybody got independence out of it. Like she really got some stride and felt kind of cool that she could do stuff and there were hard times for sure.

[20:53] Cara Cooper: Um, and my husband's a champion, but he also learned to do some of the things that I do when I'm home so that when I came back, we appreciate each other more. I certainly don't ever, you know, need a year apart to appreciate my husband. I would like to see him every day and I'm glad I do now. But, um, but you know, when you don't have those, those nuts and bolts of the daily life, then you get them back. You realize how important each little thing is and, and how just catching things for each other and doing things for each other. And it's, uh, it's so important and so necessary and so appreciated. Now.

[21:27] Jessica Rush: That's incredible. I can't, I can't believe that you traveled every day off. Can I also add, she never missed a show.

[21:30] Cara Cooper: What?

[21:31] Jessica Rush: What? I took personal days.

[21:36] Cara Cooper: Yes, but she was never too tired, too sick, none of that. And she also never complained.

[21:41] Jessica Rush: I shared a dressing room with Becky for almost the entire year and I never heard, oh, the red. I'm so tired. Nothing ever. And you, she could complain to me, right? But you never did. It's astounding to me, but I loved everything I was doing. It was like, I got to have the home life as much as I possibly could.

[22:02] Becky Gulsvig: And it was temporary. I knew I wasn't staying on the road, so I knew I had to just eat up every moment and, oh my God, do we love this show? So doing a show that you love and feel passionate about and is, is worthy of missing some time with your family to do what you love in such a beautiful way. It was worth all of that juggling.

[22:22] Cara Cooper: Um, I just feel like I got to have my cake and eat it too.

[22:25] Jessica Rush: It's an awful lot of plane.

[22:26] Cara Cooper: Right? It is a beautiful show. It's a show. I didn't see your tour, but I saw the Broadway company and it's, it's food for the soul. That show. I mean, it's just, it makes you believe in the goodness of humanity.

[22:40] Jessica Rush: Yeah. And I think it's something everyone could, it would serve everyone well to see it, particularly in these times right now.

[22:47] Cara Cooper: And it's how we felt traveling across the country to like, let's bring this message to people.

[22:51] Jessica Rush: Yeah. Because you leave there just feeling so good.

[22:55] Cara Cooper: Yeah. You know, it's great. We also were, I don't know if this is, I do believe actually this is because the show is so wonderful and the producers are so wonderful that the company was so kind. So kind. And I, I just don't think this experience would have been the same on another tour.

[23:12] Jessica Rush: No.

[23:13] Cara Cooper: Um, first of all, it was a very small company. We traveled with 44 people total cast company crew, just 44. Um, and they all became Beckett's family.

[23:20] Jessica Rush: We'd have these, you asked about travel days, probably my least favorite day. Beckett's just, um, a lot of energy. I would say that's a good way to put it.

[23:33] Cara Cooper: Very willful. He's passionate. He's very passionate. He has a lot of feelings.

[23:36] Jessica Rush: Um, and he doesn't like to stay in a stroller or a carrier is like to stay still.

[23:42] Cara Cooper: Um, and he's too, he's too.

[23:45] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[23:46] Cara Cooper: And everyone would take turns with him. There was one day in particular. I don't think you were there that day. That was the worst part about Becky flying home is that I didn't have her on a couple of times.

[23:57] Jessica Rush: Yeah, I didn't get it.

[23:59] Cara Cooper: Um, the screaming airport day, the one where you heard him down the terminal and I was like, Oh yeah, that one.

[24:05] Jessica Rush: Yes. I left him with you to get coffee. I was like, Oh, Beckett's screaming. Becky's got him.

[24:12] Cara Cooper: Yep. Um, yeah, there was one terrible travel day and nothing was terrible about it except that it's tiring. You know, you get up so early, you have all your stuff. We should talk about the stuff later.

[24:22] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[24:23] Cara Cooper: Um, and I remember putting the carrier on Emily and saying, would you just hold him? And she just walked her on the airport with him on her back.

[24:31] Jessica Rush: Oh yeah.

[24:32] Cara Cooper: For like a half an hour. It was the best half an hour, you know, just to know that there were people out there looking out for us.

[24:39] Jessica Rush: The best. And he loved him. I mean, that's the thing. It's, you know, and also stage management and company management always caring about the family. They were so considerate. And that is almost never the case. You're usually, you're trying to hide your child.

[25:00] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[25:01] Jessica Rush: Yeah. And you're made to feel very stupid and inconvenient because you happen to have a tiny human.

[25:06] Cara Cooper: I've been spoiled. I've been completely wonderful. And it changes everything. I'm experiencing something similar right now. And our PSM is a mom and that changes the whole game.

[25:12] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[25:13] Cara Cooper: You know, we all had to be raised. We all had to get to be a grownup. So we have to appreciate that children need to be raised.

[25:21] Jessica Rush: Right. Well, let's talk since you did just sort of touch on that. Let's talk about all the stuff. I mean, travel days, you know, you're loaded down. So we each got a trunk, right?

[25:31] Cara Cooper: That's true. Traveled for us, traveled on the trucks. Adam had a trunk and I had a trunk, which meant that Adam and I had one trunk and Beckett had the other trunk, but you don't get that stuff for three days.

[25:45] Jessica Rush: Trunk has to be packed. Usually Saturday night, sometimes Sunday morning, and then you don't see it until Tuesday night.

[25:51] Cara Cooper: So we couldn't put the crib in there. We couldn't put his stuffed animals in there. Anything that we needed, which for a two year old is a lot, a lot of things, and you can't change it up on him because then he's going to ask where it is and get all freaked out. And we were changing so many other things. We wanted everything else to be consistent.

[26:08] Jessica Rush: So, um, yeah, it was a lot of stuff. We had two suitcases.

[26:14] Cara Cooper: No, we had three. We had three suitcases. We did make that exception. We were only allowed to per contract, but we ended up paying for one every travel day. That was worth it. I think.

[26:23] Jessica Rush: And then two, or you had two together.

[26:26] Cara Cooper: We had three total suitcases. So we basically each had one suitcase and then the crib and then the stroller and then the diaper bag. And then we each had a backpack.

[26:36] Jessica Rush: I actually have a fantastic picture. I'll have to show you guys. Someone took a picture of us as we got out of the cab in one city, just all of our stuff surrounding us, Beckett on my back, Adam with everything else.

[26:47] Cara Cooper: Oh, and the car seat.

[26:49] Jessica Rush: Oh my God. That's the curse was the car seat. Because we put the car seat on the airplane with us because it kept him still. Remember when he didn't need his own seat?

[26:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[26:59] Jessica Rush: Oh, he didn't turn to tell partway through.

[27:02] Cara Cooper: Yeah. But the seat was a blessing. It really was.

[27:04] Jessica Rush: Yeah. He likes his space.

[27:07] Cara Cooper: Um, so yeah, just honestly traveling with the company was a gift too, because I could leave all of the stuff in one area. I'd be like, are you staying here, Becky? Can I just go get some food? Cause I haven't eaten. What else did we travel with? I mean, it's just the things you don't think about that you can't even pack until you get up in the morning. Like his nightlight noise machine.

[27:28] Cara Cooper: Yes. The noise machine, the blanket, the pillow, the three lovies, the five, the five stuffed animals, the PJs that he won't want to take off. Eventually we got rid of the crib and then he had inflatable bed guards that we then had to travel with.

[27:43] Jessica Rush: Oh gosh.

[27:45] Cara Cooper: Scooter.

[27:46] Jessica Rush: Oh yeah. Cause he learned how to ride it in the theater and he was riding down the hallways. He started liking the scooter so much that we had to take it to the airport with us. So that became another thing that we had to travel with. It was amazing. He's like zooming around the rooms and he was in the hallway. I'm like racing to each of us.

[28:02] Jessica Rush: And yes, we had Liam, and August and Harry were 10 and 12, turned 13.

[28:15] Cara Cooper: So, August and Harry were with us full-time, our music director's kids, but yes, much older.

[28:21] Jessica Rush: And Liam would also make stops. He's five, but he was back and forth.

[28:27] Cara Cooper: So, Beckett was sort of the only full-time.

[28:33] Jessica Rush: Full-time, yeah. And the best part is, is they all loved each other.

[28:37] Cara Cooper: Still do, still do.

[28:40] Jessica Rush: Oh, it's so sweet, the kids playing.

[28:42] Cara Cooper: And them also knowing that another kid was doing this, you know?

[28:46] Jessica Rush: Not being the only kid.

[28:50] Cara Cooper: Because, yeah, Hazel's had been the only kid a lot, and then they're not allowed.

[28:55] Jessica Rush: Was she the only kid on Beautiful?

[28:57] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[28:59] Jessica Rush: Especially with a show like that, where the company probably tends to be younger.

[29:04] Cara Cooper: They were younger, but they were great with her.

[29:06] Jessica Rush: They were really good. She loves her Beautiful people.

[29:09] Cara Cooper: They're so great, and they're so cute.

[29:11] Jessica Rush: You know what I mean?

[29:13] Cara Cooper: Oh my gosh, yeah.

[29:14] Jessica Rush: Do they listen better at four?

[29:16] Cara Cooper: A little bit.

[29:18] Jessica Rush: Great, great, great.

[29:20] Cara Cooper: At least you can have a conversation that's actually, you know.

[29:24] Jessica Rush: Words. That kind of makes sense.

[29:28] Cara Cooper: The thing that I can't get over, and it seems to be this way with the Broadway company as well, is the families that come from away, and how well-supported you all are.

[29:33] Jessica Rush: It's incredible to me.

[29:39] Cara Cooper: It's a gift.

[29:41] Jessica Rush: And there should be more of that.

[29:43] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I wish it weren't so unique.

[29:45] Jessica Rush: Right, exactly.

[29:46] Cara Cooper: I mean, the fact that Happy and Pearl and Julie and Sharon, everyone, there's several moms, and I'm sure, well, Jim Walton has a daughter.

[29:55] Jessica Rush: She's grown.

[29:56] Cara Cooper: But, I mean, just the fact that there's so many parents and that it's embraced.

[30:02] Jessica Rush: Yeah, and you can't just have your kids around all the time, and people get that.

[30:05] Cara Cooper: And this is the right collection of humans that honored the boundaries because nobody wants to ruin it for anybody else.

[30:10] Jessica Rush: It's like having a pet somewhere.

[30:12] Cara Cooper: If you're the one that has the disaster, then all of a sudden you've ruined it.

[30:15] Jessica Rush: But if everyone's careful and we're all good and respectful, then it will all be honored.

[30:20] Cara Cooper: We had Beckett at the theater probably once a week.

[30:23] Jessica Rush: I had him come for one matinee a week.

[30:25] Cara Cooper: But that's because Adam was offstage.

[30:27] Jessica Rush: Because Adam was offstage.

[30:28] Cara Cooper: Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. It was probably helpful because if Adam wasn't on all the time, then he could probably hang out.

[30:34] Jessica Rush: He looks forward to that.

[30:36] Cara Cooper: Oh, awesome.

[30:37] Jessica Rush: I was afraid that the volume may distract people, but it wasn't like that.

[30:44] Cara Cooper: He learned to nap, too.

[30:45] Jessica Rush: He did.

[30:46] Cara Cooper: He learned to nap at the theater.

[30:47] Jessica Rush: Amazing.

[30:48] Cara Cooper: Hazel got to work merch.

[30:49] Jessica Rush: Oh!

[30:50] Cara Cooper: Very cool.

[30:51] Jessica Rush: I bet she loved it.

[30:52] Cara Cooper: Oh, my gosh.

[30:53] Jessica Rush: Got a name tag.

[30:54] Cara Cooper: Oh.

[30:55] Jessica Rush: Push the button.

[30:56] Cara Cooper: A handful of times, yeah, I could drop her off, and I'd go backstage, and then after I'd go wait for her, and she'd finish.

[31:02] Jessica Rush: It was so cute.

[31:03] Cara Cooper: That's awesome.

[31:04] Jessica Rush: Bless Caleb, our merch guy, who's just the champion of the world with children and all things.

[31:08] Cara Cooper: Well, it's just so sweet.

[31:09] Jessica Rush: It's so awesome the way they were all made to feel a part of it.

[31:13] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[31:14] Jessica Rush: That's just super special.

[31:16] Cara Cooper: I mean, growing up, I grew up in a community theater life, which is different, but at the same time, it's not.

[31:21] Jessica Rush: It's like I had so many aunts and uncles, and I remember napping on a pallet in the back of the theater in the dark, you know what I mean, like when my parents were on stage or whatever.

[31:30] Cara Cooper: Those are some of I feel most at home in a theater, like the sound of people on stage and doing the show and their lines, and just it feels safe.

[31:40] Jessica Rush: And it's just beautiful that you're able to bring that to your children too, all of us, when we can.

[31:44] Cara Cooper: Absolutely.

[31:47] Jessica Rush: So since you guys are such experts on traveling, what would be your travel tips to anybody?

[31:51] Cara Cooper: I mean, people not in the business traveling with kids, traveling a lot for work.

[31:57] Jessica Rush: What are your best little tidbits you can give?

[32:03] Cara Cooper: Other than get TSA pre-checked.

[32:05] Jessica Rush: Oh, my gosh.

[32:06] Cara Cooper: Get pre-checked.

[32:07] Jessica Rush: I mean, right away.

[32:09] Cara Cooper: No, don't even argue it.

[32:11] Jessica Rush: You have to.

[32:12] Cara Cooper: Also, don't waste your frequent flyer miles.

[32:14] Jessica Rush: I took like three months to sign up for all my frequent flyer mile programs.

[32:18] Cara Cooper: It's complicated, you guys.

[32:20] Jessica Rush: Hyphenated last name.

[32:21] Cara Cooper: It's a hassle, but it was worth the time.

[32:25] Jessica Rush: Now I have all these miles.

[32:27] Cara Cooper: So you had to change from like your original mileage program because you hyphenated your name?

[32:31] Jessica Rush: No, so actually my legal name is hyphenated from birth.

[32:35] Cara Cooper: My mom kept her maiden name, so I have my mom and dad's last name.

[32:39] Jessica Rush: My stage name is just my mom's last name.

[32:42] Cara Cooper: So that has complicated my entire life, which is why I did not hyphenate Beckett's last name.

[32:47] Jessica Rush: And no frequent flyer program manages to know who I am.

[32:51] Cara Cooper: Either one has a hyphen and then I put in for my ticket and it doesn't have a hyphen, so that's not the same person.

[32:57] Jessica Rush: One has a space, the other one doesn't.

[32:59] Cara Cooper: It's ridiculous.

[33:01] Jessica Rush: So take the time.

[33:02] Cara Cooper: Get your frequent flyer miles.

[33:03] Jessica Rush: So don't hyphenate and buy a pre-check.

[33:06] Cara Cooper: Done.

[33:08] Jessica Rush: I would say be concise with your belongings, and sometimes it's not possible because of the car seat, the stroller, the this, the that.

[33:13] Cara Cooper: But be as concise as you can and use your friends.

[33:16] Jessica Rush: Use your friends.

[33:18] Cara Cooper: And also talk the kids through it.

[33:20] Jessica Rush: Megan's always really good at talking Beckett through everything, whether or not he hears it all at two, fine.

[33:23] Cara Cooper: But you say, we're getting on this, we're going here, because then even towards the end of the year, I'm going on a plane to see Mama in Cincinnati.

[33:33] Jessica Rush: Oh yeah, that's right.

[33:34] Cara Cooper: He puts together where you are and where you're going.

[33:37] Jessica Rush: And I would always say, Hazel, we're going to be really tired tomorrow, but I got you this great new eye mask, and we're going to get on here, we're going to sleep, we're going to wake up at home.

[33:45] Cara Cooper: We'll feel a little yucky, but we'll be home.

[33:48] Jessica Rush: If you walk them through it and if you can maintain some cool as much as possible, they'll adjust.

[33:56] Cara Cooper: Kids are very flexible if you set them up to be.

[34:01] Jessica Rush: If you get the things as safe as you can around it and they know that you're their person or this is their person that's getting them from A to B and they've got these two things that are theirs.

[34:12] Cara Cooper: That's great advice, I mean, even just not for traveling, for anything in life, like laying out what the experience is going to be and what about it might be difficult, but it doesn't matter because we're going to be together and we're going to get through it.

[34:22] Jessica Rush: That's really helpful.

[34:24] Cara Cooper: And it was good for us for a lot of levels of this year because, you know, I'd lay in bed with her on Monday nights and she'd be like, don't go, I don't want you to leave.

[34:32] Jessica Rush: And I said, honestly, I don't either.

[34:34] Cara Cooper: I don't either, but this is temporary.

[34:36] Jessica Rush: And I love this show very much and I do need to work.

[34:40] Cara Cooper: And I said, you know, I wouldn't be on this tour if it wasn't this tour.

[34:44] Jessica Rush: And she said, you know, why do I like doing this?

[34:46] Cara Cooper: Because this show helps people be kind.

[34:49] Jessica Rush: Like she got so tired of hearing about it, but I know that it resonated and she understands why it meant so much.

[34:55] Cara Cooper: And she saw it, so she gets that, you know, it wasn't just a show, it wasn't just a paycheck, it was something that really meant a lot and we all had to work together to get through it.

[35:06] Jessica Rush: It wasn't just my job, it was everybody's job.

[35:09] Cara Cooper: And I think that's something we don't really think about in this business when we become parents, you know, whether it's on tour or regional production or even just if it's a Broadway show.

[35:18] Jessica Rush: I mean, I think everything takes on so much more weight and you do have to know what time will be lost and how often you will not be there.

[35:24] Cara Cooper: And you have to decide, is it worth it?

[35:29] Jessica Rush: Is it something that matters to me enough that I will not be there?

[35:34] Cara Cooper: You know, just this morning Elliot was like, I wish I could see you every day, all day, Mom.

[35:39] Jessica Rush: And I said, well, we did in the summer.

[35:41] Cara Cooper: Now I see you every morning and I kiss you when you're sleeping at night and we get to have days off together, you know.

[35:47] Jessica Rush: And I said, and it won't be always.

[35:49] Cara Cooper: And you'll be out of tech eventually.

[35:50] Jessica Rush: Yeah, right.

[35:51] Cara Cooper: Well, and I told her that.

[35:52] Jessica Rush: I was like, eventually my show will be open and then I'll pick you up from school, you know.

[35:58] Cara Cooper: So the idea of going on the road is just, I think it can be overwhelming, but like kudos to you both.

[36:04] Jessica Rush: I mean, being able to take your child but then also, Becky, like working so hard to give Hazel some semblance of like normalcy, at least seeing you and face-to-face and having that connection in those days together.

[36:18] Cara Cooper: I'm sure they counted for both of you.

[36:20] Jessica Rush: Oh, they really did.

[36:22] Cara Cooper: And I mapped out when we looked at the calendar, I was so lucky.

[36:24] Jessica Rush: Our anniversary, her birthday, Christmas, and my husband's birthday were all on Mondays.

[36:30] Cara Cooper: Oh, that's incredible.

[36:31] Jessica Rush: And I was like, this is great.

[36:33] Cara Cooper: So I put in for the personal days when it was too far to get, so I was there for her birthday, I was there for our anniversary, I took my vacation over her school show.

[36:41] Jessica Rush: You flew back for one day for her dance recital.

[36:43] Cara Cooper: I sure did.

[36:44] Jessica Rush: And I bought the ticket to the wrong town, so I paid for it twice.

[36:47] Cara Cooper: Oh, no.

[36:49] Jessica Rush: But you only did that once.

[36:50] Cara Cooper: I did.

[36:51] Jessica Rush: Oh my.

[36:52] Cara Cooper: If that's the only mistake you made, you're doing great.

[36:54] Jessica Rush: I mean, I mean.

[36:55] Cara Cooper: Don't buy basic economy, you guys, because you can't fix your mistakes.

[36:58] Jessica Rush: Oh no.

[36:59] Cara Cooper: That's another tip.

[37:01] Jessica Rush: That was the most expensive dance recital I will ever do.

[37:05] Cara Cooper: But it was good.

[37:07] Jessica Rush: Oh, it was great.

[37:08] Cara Cooper: Are you kidding?

[37:09] Jessica Rush: And super mom.

[37:10] Cara Cooper: I mean, Megan called you that earlier and said that you're a super mom.

[37:13] Jessica Rush: I think we're all super moms.

[37:15] Cara Cooper: I mean.

[37:16] Jessica Rush: I mean, holla.

[37:17] Cara Cooper: Depends on the day, right?

[37:18] Jessica Rush: For being honest.

[37:19] Cara Cooper: Oh, please.

[37:20] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[37:21] Cara Cooper: Clearly.

[37:22] Jessica Rush: Survival means you're a super mom.

[37:23] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[37:24] Jessica Rush: We're still here.

[37:25] Cara Cooper: It's true.

[37:27] Jessica Rush: You were talking about being with Hazel at night and it just struck me so much is that you're teaching your daughter about having a career that you're passionate about and that someday she can have something that she's passionate about and know that it's going to be hard and that it's going to be a struggle.

[37:45] Cara Cooper: Because I think that's one of the biggest things I've taken away as becoming a mom is that as a kid I was told I could have it all, right?

[37:54] Jessica Rush: My parents were like, you can be anything you want. You can do anything you want, which is incredible.

[37:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[37:59] Jessica Rush: And you can.

[38:00] Cara Cooper: But the reality of what it takes to do it all and to have it all, it's not easy.

[38:08] Jessica Rush: It's work.

[38:09] Cara Cooper: It's really hard, which of course it's really hard.

[38:12] Jessica Rush: But I think hard work and emotional struggle are two different things and finding out where they meet and how to make it feel okay for most of the time.

[38:23] Cara Cooper: And you giving that to Hazel, literally for an entire year you showed her that it was possible, that it wasn't going to be easy, but that it was worth it.

[38:33] Jessica Rush: And I think that's absolutely incredible.

[38:36] Cara Cooper: Thank you.

[38:37] Jessica Rush: And I don't think of it anymore as making a career.

[38:41] Cara Cooper: I think of it as making a life because I don't think I would be complete if I didn't try to do it all.

[38:46] Jessica Rush: And if it doesn't work, it won't work.

[38:49] Cara Cooper: But if you can make it work, let's make it work.

[38:51] Jessica Rush: I think about that a lot too, that I knew when I got pregnant, before I got pregnant, Adam and I talked about I still wanted to work.

[39:02] Cara Cooper: I knew that I would be a better mother if I was still doing what I was passionate about.

[39:08] Jessica Rush: And we went into this knowing that these issues are going to come up because I want to work.

[39:15] Cara Cooper: I will be better for it.

[39:16] Jessica Rush: I am better for it.

[39:18] Cara Cooper: So it kind of makes it all worth it.

[39:21] Jessica Rush: I find my work has improved being a parent too because you appreciate life so much more.

[39:27] Cara Cooper: You appreciate the ins and outs.

[39:28] Jessica Rush: You have way more emotions.

[39:29] Cara Cooper: You have way more struggles and things to pull from.

[39:33] Jessica Rush: And you can bring that to your work, which is only helpful, especially in this business.

[39:39] Cara Cooper: Maybe not in another business.

[39:41] Jessica Rush: Maybe not in another business.

[39:43] Cara Cooper: No, but my accessibility to my emotions now is on point.

[39:47] Jessica Rush: You want me to cry in an audition? No problem.

[39:54] Cara Cooper: Ladies, this was awesome.

[39:56] Jessica Rush: Thanks for having us.

[39:57] Cara Cooper: This was so insightful.

[39:58] Jessica Rush: Thank you so much.

[39:59] Cara Cooper: Because truthfully, these auditions come up.

[40:03] Jessica Rush: They call and they say they want to see you for this.

[40:06] Cara Cooper: And it's that moment of, ooh, do I even put it out there?

[40:11] Jessica Rush: And to hear that you did and y'all made it work and two times over, Becky.

[40:18] Cara Cooper: Well done.

[40:19] Jessica Rush: Applause.

[40:20] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[40:21] Jessica Rush: Bravo.

[40:22] Cara Cooper: Thank you.

[40:34] Jessica Rush: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Mama's Talking Loud.

[40:37] Cara Cooper: Special shout outs to Rachel Spencer-Hewitt for our fabulous graphic.

[40:41] Jessica Rush: Kristen Anderson-Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward-Weber for our super theme song.

[40:46] Cara Cooper: Our producer, Dori Berenstain, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.

[40:51] Jessica Rush: Have a good one.

[41:06] Cara Cooper: Special thanks to Cara Cooper, Becky Gulsvig, Megan McGinnis, and Jessica Rush for sharing their stories with us this week.

[41:12] Jessica Rush: Mama's Talking Loud is a production of Broadway Podcast Network.

[41:15] Cara Cooper: To subscribe, search for Mama's Talking Loud on Apple Podcasts or at bpn.fm.

[41:20] Jessica Rush: The Ensemblist is proud to be part of Broadway Podcast Network.

[41:23] Cara Cooper: If you can't get enough of our theater conversations directed into your earbuds, there are more than 30 other great theater podcasts to listen to.

[41:30] Jessica Rush: Check all of us out at bpn.fm.

[41:33] Cara Cooper: And follow The Ensemblist on Instagram to see the latest posts from our website where we share the stories of talented artists working in Broadway ensembles, just like Jessica and Cara.

[41:42] Jessica Rush: Thanks for listening, guys.

[41:44] Cara Cooper: Until next time.