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[0:00] Aaron Albano: You're listening to Smash from The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. I'm Aaron Albano.

[0:11] Mo Brady: And I'm Mo Brady. Welcome back listeners to our tongue-in-cheek recap of what is television's most detailed depiction of the theater industry. And yes, we're still talking about the NBC series that aired from 2012 to 2013. Smash was also an incredible glimpse at the theater community in the early 2010s, as many of the show's writers, actors, and dancers were played by real Broadway performers with real Broadway cred. But we wanted to go back in time to see how the show has weathered. The show famously didn't land with a wide audience, but can rewatching the series help us understand why? I don't know. Let's find out more about season 1 episode 8, The Coup. Aaron, give us the stats.

[1:04] Aaron Albano: The Coup premiered on March 26, 2012. It was directed by Paris Barclay and written by show creator Theresa Rebeck. This is the first episode Ms. Rebeck has been credited with writing since episode 3. Upon premiere, the episode was viewed by 6.14 million, which is down 0.42 million from the week before. This is the first episode where there is zero music by Marc Shaiman and Scott Whitman, which makes sense since the workshop's over. Instead, we have the original song, Touch Me, written by Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic and Bonnie McKee, and two covers of Bob Marley's Three Little Birds and Sly and the Family Stone's Dance to the Music. And what happens in this episode, Mo? After the Bombshell workshop, everyone is asking if the musical is dead. Well, Ivy is, at least, driving herself crazy on a stationary bicycle.

[1:53] Mo Brady: In addition, Derek and Ivy are taking a bit of a break, so her inside track on the progression of the musical is moot. At the same time, Derek meets with Karen to tell her that they are talking to a new songwriter for a new approach and a new song, and they need her to sing it. The catch? Tom and Julia cannot know. But they do know, because assistant Ellis and producer Eileen are now BFFs, and Ellis now seems to have a full-time gig as a professional snoop. Karen is concerned about aligning herself with Derek, but agrees to meet him at a dockside in Brooklyn. The dockside ends up being a warehouse where Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic is working on a new approach to the Maryland musical. Sam and the ensemble of the Maryland musical finally get Ivy out of the gym by taking her to Brooklyn Bowl.

Bobby, the soothsayer, laments, quote, they pay us nothing for those things, and then as soon as they are over, no one calls, and then we end up prowling around trying to figure out what's going on. We did all that work for free, basically, and then we have no rights to even ask a question.

[2:51] Aaron Albano: The result is perhaps the most realistic exchange on the television series thus far. Jessica, I hate the theater. Bobby, I hate the theater. Ivy, I love the theater. Which turns into a bowling lane dance party, jumping off of furniture and grapevining down the bowling lane. Bobby meets up with Karen, under the guise of catching up with her since the workshop, but what he's really doing over beers is getting the dirt on Karen's secret project. That secret project ends up being a choreographed performance of Touch Me, a Maryland-inspired techno song staged on a rotating bed with satin sheets. Needless to say, it doesn't go over well with Tom and Julia, with both of them feeling betrayed by Derek and Eileen going behind their backs. But when the creative team finally makes amends, Eileen tells them that what the Maryland musical now needs is a star to move forward.

[4:07] Mo Brady: Bravo, that was comprehensive.

[4:09] Aaron Albano: These recaps have gotten longer, because I feel like there's more to say.

[4:15] Mo Brady: I mean, this episode had a lot, I'm gonna be honest, so.

[4:18] Aaron Albano: All right, favorite performance by an ensemblist, and we saw kind of two groups, right? We saw the Bombshell ensemblists that were grapevining in the bowling alley, and then we saw six male dancers in Touch Me, and those were played by Joe Aaron Reid, Marcus Bellamy, Derek Ferguson, Christopher King, Seth Stewart, and Ricky Tripp. All in jabberwocky masks. That whole bowling alley scene, I really dug. I really dug a lot. A, because when did Bobby become like the voice of wisdom on this show? And B, like, in the past few episodes, all of the ensemblist moments, where they're either consoling Ivy or consoling Karen, all of these moments where all of the ensemble is there, is starting to feel like the most authentic moments of the show.

[5:02] Mo Brady: I'm thinking back to the group cuddle pile after the workshop. They're all just kiki-ing, and then this one just, when they're coming together to kind of commiserate about not knowing anything, Bobby is giving you such sage wisdom. I love just this soothsaying wisdom, if you will. And it's how all of us feel whenever we're done with something. It's just, it's rug gets pulled out from under all of us, and we don't know what's going on.

[5:26] Aaron Albano: So in between rewatching episodes of Smash, I've also been watching High School Musical: The Musical: The Series. And I recently watched the Thanksgiving episode, which is sort of like a cast party kind of feel to it. And this, to me, feels really close to that episode in that it's getting to what that thing is about theater people, right? The essence of what makes a theater click a theater click, I feel like we're seeing here.

[5:53] Mo Brady: Oh, absolutely. Somewhere in the episode, one of the outsiders, Tom's boyfriend, he says to Tom, your tribe is hilarious. When people look into who we are as a group, they don't know the draw, but when you're in it, you're in it.

[6:09] Aaron Albano: All right, so let's move on to my favorite segment, everyone's favorite segment, Albano Fact Checks. Okay, so this episode begins with Sam and Ivy taking a tap class at Marshall Dance Academy. And this stood out to me, because the show does such a detailed job of trying to get real places, right? But I've never heard of Marshall Dance Academy.

[6:32] Mo Brady: I haven't. Is it like Kathleen Marshall's fake studio that she started? Or Rob Marshall? I googled Marshall Dance Academy. There was nothing there.

[6:42] Aaron Albano: They must have just wanted a storefront. I mean, most dance studios are on a second floor, on an above floor. You don't pay for storefront real estate for a dance studio in New York City. I mean, I'm glad that they were keeping up their craft when they weren't working. I was honestly surprised to see that in class.

[7:02] Mo Brady: I was like, I could use some more tap class. We all could use some more tap class.

[7:06] Aaron Albano: I would go to Marshall Dance Academy if it worked, if it existed.

[7:09] Mo Brady: Because correct me if I'm wrong, there's not a real culture of taking class as a Broadway dancer. There's sort of a culture of taking class as an up-and-comer would like to be on Broadway.

[7:22] Aaron Albano: But I don't remember going to dance classes as a Broadway performer and seeing a ton of other people in those classes.

[7:29] Mo Brady: I feel like it goes in waves. I definitely had my moment in my 20s where I was going to class all the time despite working, and a lot of us were. But I feel like I'll go to class now, once in a blue moon. It's definitely clear that there is a different generation in Broadway Dance Center or in Steps.

[7:46] Aaron Albano: Yeah, but it's more likely that you're going to Soul Cycle or Barry's Boot Camp. I think that's the truth, is that you don't see these groups of people.

[7:55] Mo Brady: They're going to boutique fitness classes.

[7:58] Aaron Albano: Oh, for sure. And maybe that's because that didn't exist back then.

[8:01] Mo Brady: Okay. So Marshall Dance Academy does not exist. We answered that question.

[8:06] Aaron Albano: Yes.

[8:07] Mo Brady: Albano fact check number two. Tom tells Ivy, you know you can always go back to the chorus. So more than chorus shaming, I'm surprised that Ivy took time off from Heaven on Earth to do this Bombshell workshop.

[8:20] Aaron Albano: She didn't even take time off. She quit.

[8:22] Mo Brady: She quit to do a workshop?

[8:24] Aaron Albano: She quit. That's insane.

[8:24] Mo Brady: She's dumb. This whole rewatch is cheating. She's so dumb.

[8:29] Aaron Albano: Does she not need money? Is Lee Conroy very, very rich?

[8:33] Mo Brady: I mean, that's what I'm thinking. I'm like, clearly money is not an issue for her. And especially if she's been working on Broadway for 10 years, hopefully she has a good chunk of change saved up.

[8:43] Aaron Albano: I don't think she's very... She doesn't seem like a financially fiscal person.

[8:47] Mo Brady: I would agree with that totally. I guess there's the danger of being so, so invested in a project that you think you're perfect for.

[9:26] Aaron Albano: Kind of in the hierarchy of the business would be above an ensemble track.

[9:30] Moe Brady: Yeah, I mean, and that's not like out of the realm of what we've done before. Like, I feel like it's urban, like urban Broadway legend that like, Stephanie J. Block started Wicked and then got bumped for Idina. But initially, Stephanie was offered the cover in the San Francisco out of town tryout and then went on to become who she is, right? Like the fact that that's not even on the table.

[9:55] Aaron Albano: Yeah, no one's thinking about that. We need a great cover for unnamed star if she can't hack it. Spoiler alert.

[10:01] Moe Brady: Yeah, you need somebody in your arsenal. And if you have that much confidence in Ivy Lynn, like let her say no.

[10:09] Aaron Albano: Yes, it's still a chorus contract. And yes, she's very clearly adamantly against the chorus, but you can still be a part of the project. You sometimes take that covering gig because you don't know what's going to happen.

[10:17] Moe Brady: I want to ask you a question.

[10:23] Aaron Albano: Go.

[10:23] Moe Brady: How much of Bobby's bowling statement is true? Going back, he says, they pay us nothing for those things. And then as soon as it's over, no one calls and we end up prowling around trying to figure out what's going on. We did all that work for free, basically, and then we have no rights to even ask a question.

[10:40] Aaron Albano: It's dramatic, and maybe elevated, but not necessarily untrue sentimentally. I feel like you could ask anybody who's gone through a developmental process. This is not a statement on whether what's right or what's wrong. But there is an element where you do go through that whole thing, frankly, getting paid more than the Marilyn musical. Once it's over, it's over.

[10:59] Moe Brady: Oh, sure. I did my research.

[11:02] Aaron Albano: Oh, go. What?

[11:02] Moe Brady: Okay. There are developmental contracts according to Actors' Equity. There are three tiers. The third is the only one where choreography is allowed, the highest one.

[11:12] Aaron Albano: Okay, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair.

[11:16] Moe Brady: The compensation for that currently is $1,250 a week.

[11:20] Aaron Albano: Oh, okay. So even for inflation, that is way more than $200 a week.

[11:25] Moe Brady: $200 a week. The tier one compensation, which is just sitting at a music stand, would have been $500 a week.

[11:31] Aaron Albano: Okay. So we are exaggerating for dramatic effect. Bobby, you're feeling, your heart is in the right place, but you're—

[11:38] Moe Brady: But your facts are suspect. Check the receipts. But the experience of waiting and not knowing what's coming next, that rings true to you.

[11:45] Aaron Albano: That's absolutely true. Yeah, because you can't. The show's over. All of your contractual obligation to that project specifically is done. I mean, again, you can do what they did and just have drinks and wonder what's going on and—

[12:00] Moe Brady: Oh, and we do, and one would.

[12:04] Aaron Albano: Yeah. Oh, for sure. Maybe even some text messages.

[12:07] Moe Brady: Real talk. I exchanged a fair amount of text messages after New Seasons was done, like, just to find out what the hell was happening.

[12:15] Aaron Albano: But with, can I ask you with who? Or at what level? Who were these text messages with?

[12:23] Moe Brady: I mean—

[12:24] Aaron Albano: I want names, Albano. I want names.

[12:28] Moe Brady: I mean, I'd say with the exception of producer, I'd say all of the above. Whether I got answers or not was beside the point, but I definitely, I wouldn't say strained, but I definitely reached out to my invested relationships that I made during that project to be like, hey, what do we know? And then also having the separate thread with all of the newsies, all of us updating what we're hearing and what we've heard and what we think and—

[12:56] Aaron Albano: What else? Okay, so let's talk about the Ryan Tedder, OneRepublic, Touch Me, Brooklyn Warehouse performance. What did you think?

[13:05] Moe Brady: Can I be honest?

[13:06] Aaron Albano: No, please don't be honest.

[13:09] Moe Brady: I will lie forever. I didn't hate it. When watching it, and what's so funny is because I remember watching it eight years ago, being like, oh, this is garbage. Oh, whatever. What the hell do they think they're doing? Here now in the age of the revival of Oklahoma, here in the Hadestown generation, the Here Lies Love K-pop generation, these new concepts, I'm not mad at. And I was like, oh, I mean, sure. Maybe the Jabberwocky masks were a bit much. Maybe the techno vibe of the whole thing was a bit much. But I'm not mad at the concept. And if this is the—because Derek explains the concept in his scene with Tom, the way that he like stripped it down to Marilyn's issues and what she went through, and telling it in this type of setting, I was not mad. I actually thought it might be—it would definitely be a show here in 2020 that I would be interested in seeing.

[14:04] Aaron Albano: Especially, yeah, when we talk about Oklahoma's, and we talk about West Side Stories, and these shows all sort of being revived in new, interesting ways. I mean, I felt like the presentation was a little bit one note, but also you understand why Tom and Julia would be offended that I and Derek went behind their back. And you also want to be like, well, it's not like your idea was like killing it, right? I don't know. Here's a question. In a situation like this, who has the intellectual property of the Marilyn musical? How did we learn about this show?

[14:34] Moe Brady: Tom and Julia had this idea and had a demo, right? They're the ones who had Ivy sing the thing.

[14:40] Aaron Albano: Yeah. In which case, like, approaching it this way? Absolutely, it's offensive. And of course, they were going to take it horribly. But like, is there a way they could have approached this new concept with them on board that wouldn't have been so offensive?

[14:58] Moe Brady: It's a little weird that it was like a big reach to go to Ryan Tedder of One Republic, as like, we're going to try a new concept, and we're going to get a pop star and they're going to spend their—like, where did Eileen get the money for that? She has no money. Like, I can promise you that Ryan Tedder costs more than Tom Hewitt and Julia Houston.

[15:19] Aaron Albano: Absolutely. Maybe he was just doing a solid because he heard Karen's demo. I don't know. It's weird that they chose an entirely new song to go with this concept. Why didn't they take one of the songs they've already written?

[15:32] Moe Brady: And maybe rearrange it to where, I don't know, remix, let me be your star, something. I don't know. Like thumpa thumpa, freaking Lexington Avenue and 52nd Street. I don't know. And here's what's interesting, too, because we got Ryan Tedder, which I'm like, okay, so you're trying to replace the composers, which is awkward in itself. But I'm like, it sounds like because you presented this entire new concept, you think the problem with the show currently is the concept, like, do you think like, and so that's a worth a conversation with Tom and Julia. But Eileen thinks that the problem because she brought in Ryan Tedder is the composers, which I don't know, but then she backs up on because she's like, Oh, I wasn't nice. And then she but she's always thought that it was the star. So who is the problem? Yeah, none of us are on the same page on what the problem is with the show.

[16:23] Aaron Albano: I think it's where Smash loses its trajectory, because if it was guiding us to what the problem was, it is a great musical. We just can't decide between Karen and Ivy or we can't decide between Tom and Julia and Ryan Tedder. But everything seems to be a problem other than Marilyn would make a good musical.

[16:40] Moe Brady: It's and it's a problem because they're telling us it's a problem. Like we just came from last week where we thought the workshop was great. All two of us thought the workshop was fantastic. And then yet everyone on the show is like, there were problems, there were problems, there were problems, show us the damn problems that—

[17:03] Aaron Albano: All right, well, special thanks to Aaron Albano for joining us for this mini series. The Ensemblist was produced today by me, Moe Brady. To keep up to date with next week's recap, be sure to watch episode nine of Smash entitled Hell on Earth, arguably the most iconic Smash episode ever. You can find Smash episodes on either the NBC app or on NBC.com. You can help others find out about The Ensemblist by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And you can also download episodes wherever you get your podcasts or at BroadwayPodcastNetwork.com. Are you enjoying the Smash mini series? If you are, let us know. You can follow The Ensemblist on Instagram or our website where we share the stories of talented artists working in Broadway ensembles. Thanks for listening, guys. Until next time!