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[0:00] Mo Brede: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. I'm Mo Brede.

[0:20] Mo Brede: It takes a lot for me to see theater outside of Midtown. Call me lazy, call me a bad New Yorker, but New York City is like a city full of towns and I rarely venture lower than 34th Street, or higher than 55th for that matter. However, on an April evening in 2015, I left my comfortable enclave of Hell's Kitchen and took a rare trip on the subway to Astor Place and entered the doors of New York's Public Theater.

[0:49] Mo Brede: I'm the kind of person that likes to know as little about a show as possible before seeing it. As we sit here seven months into a pandemic, I still haven't listened to the cast album of Six, even though I know I will love it eventually when I do. It's just that working in the Broadway industry, there's so little about theater that still contains the magic that I first felt when I fell in love with theater. All this to say, I picked up my single ticket from the box office and headed into the Newman Theater to see Hamilton, with very little knowledge of what would be ahead.

[1:22] Mo Brede: As I mused in an earlier episode, the Newman Theater is small, 299 seats. Every production I've seen in this space has appeared to leap off of the stage and into the laps of the audience. And I was surprised to see that in Hamilton that leap began in its very first number, when 17 performers stood shoulder to shoulder, acknowledging us, the audience, as they introduced us to a man who never backed down and never learned to take his time.

[1:53] Mo Brede: And there's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait, just you wait. When he was ten, his father split the love in two. In my exploration of the line and its impact on musical theater, I wanted to learn more about its use in Hamilton. So I reached out to a friend and colleague who has intimate knowledge of the show's staging. Stephanie Klemons is a noted mover and shaker in the theater industry, known for her work onstage and off. But her most impressive title is that of Global Dance Supervisor for Hamilton: An American Musical.

[2:30] Mo Brede: Steph was in the room as Hamilton was staged, sitting at tech tables as the show was refined, performing in the show as an original cast member, and now helps to set and maintain companies of the musical around the world. She was generous enough to take time to talk to me from her New York home, where she and her wife raise their young son. Between starting episodes of Dinosaur Train, Steph told me about the purpose of the line in Hamilton and how she teaches the staging to scores of performers around the world.

[3:16] Stephanie Klemons: There is a moment in the opening of Hamilton. It's about halfway through. I'm going to describe it to you as if you've never seen it. The entire company on stage comes forward and stands basically at the downstage edge of the stage. And then we see Hamilton walk from stage left to stage right in front of them. Does that moment have a name? And what is that moment symbolizing? The idea behind the opening, which is really so much of Andy's genius, is to physically do exactly what it's doing sonically and verbally, which is to introduce the audience to our vocabulary. A lot of things in Hamilton are coming at you fast and furious. And it's super important that we make sure that the audience is on the same wavelength, that the audience is speaking our language.

So we literally physically tell the audience that when we stand like this, that means we are this. And more specifically, I mean, standing in first position parallel, standing shoulder width apart, standing in second position. We literally introduce them to our stances so that we have this fresco of movement that then carries out through the rest of the two hours and 47 minutes. And they can go like, oh, I understand now they're the British soldiers or whatnot. This particular stance that we use in the opening number, you see it really clearly when Hamilton enters the entire stage, assumes that stance facing in different directions. And that essentially is telling the audience that this is a blank slate.

It's not a confrontational stance. It's not a poised stance. It's a nothing, baseline zero. Then we head to places like my shot and we're in this wide second position, which we don't see in the opening number. We only see it when we're doing the scamming choreography. So during the scamming choreography, where we're introducing confrontation and we're introducing this nuance of conflict and the things that you have to do to get ahead, we introduce this wide second position with the knees bent. And we tell the audience that when things start to get hot and fiery, we assume this stance. And that means we're willing to fight. We're willing to move forward. We're on the ready.

[5:34] Mo Brede: Now you're saying we, who is the company of Hamilton playing in the opening number?

[5:43] Stephanie Klemons: That's a really interesting question. And the answer is really answered by the button of the number. In the button of the number, we bring our feet together and we bow our heads and it's this ode and homage to Broadway past. We're paying reverence to like the storytellers. In this opening number, the ensemble is assuming the position of storyteller and assuming the position of being a voyeur through which the audience can watch the show. The ensemble steps in and out of positions of being the chess pieces in the game for Burr and Hamilton as they're telling their respective stories, Burr speaking, obviously. We distinguish that again with this stance. When we're not inside of the story, we're in this parallel shoulder width stance.

When we are inside of the story, we're in any number of other stances, feet together, chest up, that's Schuyler sisters, that's British army, that's your stay alive. That is the basic gist of who we are and what we're doing during that number.

[6:53] Stephanie Klemons: While never directly acknowledged during the show, these frescoes provide the most arresting images in Hamilton, the swirling hurricane around Alexander, the rewinding mind of Angelica, and one moment in the opening where the company stands together downstage center. I asked theater historian and friend of the podcast, Jennifer Ashley Tepper, why she thinks that these frescoes so powerfully affect audiences.

[7:19] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I think the power of the line in Hamilton is the fact that at the beginning you're like, oh, I'm going to see a story about historic figures. And the metaphor of them all rushing towards you is like, oh, no, wait, this is going to be a more personal version of a historic story than I think it's going to be. I feel like that all manifests in that staging moment in Hamilton. But I also know that in a great way, Hamilton draws on A Chorus Line and Rent and these other landmark musicals. It's nice that it's part of that legacy, too.

[7:45] Stephanie Klemons: Hamilton's place in the legacy of musical theater is unequivocally solidified. But in every one of the show's other frescoes, the ensemble supports the story of a leading character. Here, in the opening, leads and ensemble stand as equals. You can tell why I was so eager to ask Steph to tell me more about this moment.

[8:04] Mo Brede: I've always been struck by the equity of the line. From an audience perspective, we see principles and ensemble intertwining together. That's part of what reminds me of Seasons of Love and Rent. That's part of what reminds me of the line in A Chorus Line. But what you're saying is that this line has been intentionally staged. That staging of George Washington all the way stage right is important for the storytelling. Is that right?

[8:31] Stephanie Klemons: That moment is called the timeline. We call it the timeline because we sing the lyric time. It does symbolize this passage of time through Hamilton's life, right? So the first thing that we do is we see this foreshadowing of Eliza. Eliza puts a coat on Hamilton, right? So we see that image happen a number of times. We see it, that would be enough. We see it going in history as its eyes on you. It's always her preparing him, essentially being this all-knowing enabler. The next thing that happens is Angelica hands him books. So we learn two things. We learn one, that Hamilton's currency is his intelligence and his writing. That the most important thing that Hamilton is going to do, even though we're talking about scamming and money and all these things that he did, is that essentially he becomes the writer and he becomes the voice of the beginning of so many aspects of America.

And then the last thing we see is Lawrence go ahead and give him his sort of satchel. And that's a staging thing. And it's also, Lawrence is downstage, right? So that's convenient. But we see Washington watch this whole thing happen. And then Lawrence ultimately say, take action. And that's what you see happen in my shot. So there's like these series of metaphoric symbols that happen. And that's the passage of time. He goes from this 14-year-old boy to this 19-year-old who meets all the Sons of Liberty in my shot.

[9:47] Mo Brede: Was that moment always a line of the full company? Was there ever a time where you were trying something else and then it clicked?

[9:59] Stephanie Klemons: That is intentional. Yes, absolutely. To keep the ensemble and the principals mixed. If you look at the staging, it's ensemble member principal, ensemble member principal, except for like two spots where we have double ensemble members. The equity was important. It was purposefully staged. The location of the Schuyler sisters is also intentional to every other person so that when they back up, they can do this little sachet offstage left. Additionally, the equity that is behind having both the principals and the ensemble intermix, you also notice it's also male-female. It took quite a bit of math to get everybody there. And it was not like a put the dice in the cup and roll them and see what you get.

I'm surprised that it's like a production photo. When we do a photo call of a new company, we do these six setups. And we have seen the timeline of many of the companies of Hamilton. And yet it is a moment that continues to be documented as a representation of the show. Although it is so still, there's nothing flashy about it. And yet it feels important to describing what the show is. If someone only had six images of the show, this would be one of them. Yeah, it was always meant to be as far as I know. When you use a device like the timeline, you have to make sure that you really need it. It's been done really, really, really super freaking well before. And the audience, if it's not done authentically and honestly, what's going to happen is the second that they see it happen, they're going to get taken out of the story if they feel like they're being had.

Like if you see someone come in to pluck your heartstrings, it automatically takes you out of the moment. So I think that in this particular show, the way that it's done, similar to the way that it was done in A Chorus Line, which established what they needed, the way that it was done in Rent, which was so powerful because you were already in such a state. And then they come back at you with this soft beginning and you're like, oh, my God. So I think in Hamilton, it was really the first time that you saw the story of this magnitude with the people that we think we know so well. Seeing that different United Colors of Benetton stand in front of you and say, we're going to tell this story and we're going to tell it in a way that allows us to show you what our story has been. The whole point of Hamilton is that timeline.

[12:17] Mo Brady: Do you give performers direction about the timeline in terms of looking at the audience? What do you tell them when you put someone new in the show or you're staging a new company?

[12:46] Stephanie Klemons: You can't see that I'm rolling my eyes because honestly, there's not a moment in the show that we know more than the timeline. And like from all aspects, direction, choreography, we've all been directed to say the same thing. And we say it every single time. It's easy for the company to rest on their laurels and to forget that in places that are not New York, they're on stage and then they walk out the stage door and suddenly they're just another person of color and they're watching their back with a security guard. Right? Like those are things that are happening. So when you stand at the front of the stage, it's easy to go like, oh, it's just me standing, but you have to come there with 110% of your gumption and who you are.

And so we tell people it's important for the audience to see themselves in you. And so the timeline, while it's not joyful, we don't want people like walking downstage with a smile on their face. It has to be filled with hope. And that hope doesn't have to look the same for every person. Some people's hope can be passionate. Some people's hope can be a little bit joyful. Some people's hope can be this reaching yearning, but it has to be filled with hope because the audience has to see that in your face. What ultimately happens in Hamilton is if they feel like the opening number is confrontational, if they feel scared of the people of color that are standing on the stage in front of them, they shut down.

And so what we need to see is that this human is speaking to this human in the fifth row and that human on stage, right? 11 is speaking to that human in the 37th row and they can see themselves in each other. And so we direct them to look at the audience wherever they want. The only thing you can't do is pan. So you can't pan the audience and look to more than one focus. You have to keep your focus and it has to be filled with hope and it has to be 100%. You can't phone even one ounce of it in ever, any night.

[14:37] Mo Brady: So let's flip that around. You've been on stage plenty of times on that timeline yourself. Do you have a favorite spot to look? What does your hope look like? Tell us about performing that moment.

[14:48] Stephanie Klemons: Performing that moment is so glorious because it matches so well with the vocals. You just get to like open up and sing and you're saying this, we're waiting in the wings for you lyric. Breaking the fourth wall lyric. You're saying we, you and I, audience and performer, we're waiting for Alexander Hamilton and your story to unfold. And we're going to tell it, but you're going to be there to listen. And that's an equally important spot. I love that connection because it's such a full fledged all around 360 connection with the audience. I never really look out to like one of the first three rows. I'm always looking somewhere deep into the lights and the spotlights. I feel like we're looking out to the U collective, not just the 1900 people in the audience or whatever you're playing to.

What else about that moment, that staging device? As far as like just coming full circle, right? So like the way that you stand and the way that your feet are. The one thing that we ask of people when they get to the timeline, and I find this to be really interesting because there's one really difficult thing about Hamilton and that is keeping it clean and keeping it authentic are often at odds with one another. And so the people who are tasked with maintaining the integrity of Hamilton are tasked with a really difficult job. And it can be really difficult for dance captains, for dance supervisors, for everyone to be on the same page and to have that original intention. And I say this because if you notice the pictures of the timeline, you'll notice most of the ensemble members standing with that hips width distance that I spoke about.

And then you'll see Burr whose legs are always wider. And then you'll see Washington who stands a little bit more at attention and like the mulligans without fail, always like lean into a hip. And so you'll begin to see like little elements of personality in certain principles, which colors the line with something really nice. It allows it to feel just messy enough that it doesn't strike the audience as too good to be true, too clean to be real, too contrived to be authentic. That's pervasive topic throughout all of the cleaning rehearsals of Hamilton is allowing things to be just clean enough, but have just enough personality. And so I think that's a big part of the timeline. If you go and you watch the show and you go back to Disney, you can like peek at people's stance, who they're being and what they're doing and what we allow.

[17:00] Stephanie Klemons: What you're describing is a real homage to A Chorus Line's line. You're talking about arms crossed, hands behind back. It's subtler than that. But when you think about the line and what is in that artwork, it's not everybody with the top hats in one, it's the hips popped, it's the arms crossed. So the other layer of that is how Hamilton and A Chorus Line differ. There's no Diana that's not sitting in her hip. We know where they're iconic. We know what they're doing. In Hamilton, we're asking you not to be George Washington, but we're asking you to be Carvens LaSant playing George Washington and Christopher Jackson playing George Washington. And so the stances are different. And so the fresco is always different.

So the company of Hamilton is the mix of the show. And then that goes throughout the entire show. So every company of Hamilton is a little bit different because the people that are in it are a little bit different. I was like interested to compare the moments in shows. It suddenly struck me like all these moments in shows where we have people facing all different directions and then suddenly face forward from this Tetris-y jigsaw puzzle way. Shows like Passing Strange and Dear Evan Hansen, they have this timeline where everybody's standing upstage to downstage at different depths but facing downstage. I just feel like the shows that took the downstage line and took this device of whether you're breaking the wall or not, whether you're for the most part are facing the audience and calling them in in that way, that there's now this next level of it that we're moving to where we use it in the same way but we deconstruct it.

And I just think it's really cool to know that one is this device that has been done that I've been a part of in this show to move theater forward in whatever way Hamilton has and that it's now being taken by artists and other performers and actors and being used in different ways. It's just really cool to see it as like an evolution of theater in a super, nerdy musical theater way.

[19:12] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Stephanie Klemons and Jennifer Ashley Tepper for sharing their stories with us today. The Ensemblist was produced today by Anna Alltide, Jackson Klein, and me, Mo Brady. There are two great ways you can be helping The Ensemblist right now. One is by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and the other is by becoming a Patreon member, which you can do at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Please follow The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. You can also follow us on Instagram. Thanks for listening. Until next time.