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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady.

[0:15] Mo Brady: It's the day that theater lovers have been looking forward to for months, the film adaptation of The Prom, one of our favorite Broadway musicals of recent seasons, comes out today on Netflix. And so today we're going to talk about the movie, what works, what doesn't. Joining me for the conversation is The Ensemblist's own Jackson Klein, self-proclaimed prom stan, to talk about how this is different from what we saw on stage, things that are better, things that we don't think work as well, and would we recommend seeing it. So enjoy.

[1:05] Mo Brady: Hi, Jackson Klein.

[1:07] Jackson Klein: Hi, Mo Brady.

[1:08] Mo Brady: I think I only know one person who loves The Prom more than me, and it is you. Will you share your experience with The Prom? How many times you've seen it? Do you listen to the album? Sort of take us through your prom journey.

[1:24] Jackson Klein: All right, Mo. So I first saw The Prom at an invited studio run-through at New 42 in either late September or early October of 2018, and I fell in love. I went through similar experiences growing up in a conservative, very religious hometown, much like Emma Nolan. I had parents rallying to keep me from going to school events with their children because I was gay, and Broadway was a huge escape to me. Dee Dee Allen did not come to my town, but, you know, Linda Muggleston came to my earbuds and saved me in my youth. So I really related to Emma's story, especially as we got into Act II, when I was just weeping in that rehearsal studio, Mo. I then went to an early preview at the Longacre and went back at 10 a.m. the next morning to buy a ticket for the next performance because I just—I had to go through that again.

It was so healing for me, and I think I ended up seeing it maybe six-ish times on Broadway. I would have to look up the exact number, but somewhere around there, over there, their run. Like I said, the only person I know who loves The Prom more than me. I also got to see an invited dress run. I think we saw it one day right after the other.

[2:33] Mo Brady: I think so.

[2:34] Jackson Klein: And then I got to see it twice on Broadway, once pre-opening and once post-opening. Did we go together once? I can't remember who went with the second time.

[2:43] Mo Brady: I don't think we ever went together, Mo.

[2:45] Jackson Klein: That's crazy.

[2:46] Mo Brady: I know.

[2:46] Jackson Klein: It's crazy that our energy was in the Longacre so many times.

[2:50] Mo Brady: Yes, it is. So let's talk about the film adaptation. I wanted to sort of break up our conversation into three sections. What's new? What works? What doesn't? So let's talk about what's new. What struck you the most as something different about the film adaptation?

[3:07] Jackson Klein: Well, Mo, one of the major differences I noticed was the inclusion of some additional characters that are mentioned in the Broadway production but are not seen because the theater has limitations that film does not. So we see Barry's mother, and there's a new subplot with that reunion. We see flashbacks of young Barry. We see Emma Nolan's grandmother. And it was exciting to me to see these characters, although some certainly worked better than others, I will say. I really enjoyed seeing Emma's grandmother. It was a nice little moment of comedy, fun. It didn't really do much to enhance the story, but it was fun to see nonetheless. I thought the inclusion of young Barry, especially when he meets adult Barry in the Barry's Going to Prom fantasy sequence was very moving.

It was such an it-gets-better moment for that role, a very healing moment for the character. And I was really moved by that. Although I will say the reunion subplot with Barry and his mother distracted me from the main story. I think perhaps that would be a great storyline for The Prom 2, the Barry Glickman story. But The Prom is Emma Nolan's story, and it took me away from her as we were reaching the climax of the story. How did you feel about that, Mo?

[4:22] Mo Brady: We did. We just, like you alluded to with seeing young Barry, we just saw a lot more flashbacks. We got to see Principal Hawkins go to see Dee Dee Allen in Swallow the Moon. We get to see him in the theater district watching a performance, and we get to see what Swallow the Moon looks like. We get to see Eleanor onstage at the opening. We get to see the opening sequence of Talk to the Hand, the 80s television show. And we get to see Dee Dee performing The Ladies Improving onstage as well. So I thought that was such a great use of the medium, that we could go to flashbacks and really see this world. What else was new?

[5:05] Jackson Klein: Right from the very beginning, the opening is different. In the stage show, we open with, oh, the red carpet sequence of The Prom. And here we open at a high school PTA meeting, where Mrs. Green cancels The Prom. So sort of the impetus to the action. I agreed. I loved Emma's grandmother, played by Mary Kay Place. I thought she was fantastic. I recognized from being John Malkovich, the big chill, right? She, I thought, brought so much understated warmth to this role. It wasn't ever about Emma's grandmother. And yet it answers that question of, who's letting this 17-year-old girl hang out with all of these actors from New York? Like in the stage show, they don't really address like, oh, all these people she just met came into her bedroom. Yeah, I did like the inclusion of the grandmother. And I thought that Place's performance was exactly what we needed in order to continue the focus of the show forward.

[6:05] Mo Brady: Yes. I didn't necessarily agree that Barry's mom was taking away from the action. I think it does come back to sort of my major issue with the movie, which we'll save for later.

[6:17] Jackson Klein: Okay. What we do see, one other thing that we do see, I think that's very important to know, is a different, longer, and perhaps better, Dee Dee and Barry scene about Eddie Sharp that sends her into The Ladies Improving. We see them confiding to each other in the hotel room in Edgewater. Dee Dee confiding to Barry that her ex-husband squished her delicate blueberry heart. Barry and his coming out story about going to the prom, about being terrified. I don't know if this scene was effective, but it definitely told us more about those two characters.

[6:49] Mo Brady: I agree completely. I did think that Barry crying in that scene took away from the power of Barry's going to prom, the song, because we've already seen him sort of go through an emotional journey, but eh. Also, I didn't like young Barry and Barry together. I thought it was contrived, but eh.

[7:07] Jackson Klein: Okay. And, uh, Mo, I did want to bring up—

[7:09] Mo Brady: Oh!

[7:10] Jackson Klein: The most important difference. Emma Nolan is on the swim team.

[7:14] Mo Brady: She's on the swim team.

[7:15] Jackson Klein: I mean, can you imagine? Just fully changes the—I don't know why she's on the swim team. And I don't know why she is on a solo dodgeball team against her entire class, Mo Brady. That confused me just a bit.

[7:27] Mo Brady: That's not how dodgeball works.

[7:29] Jackson Klein: Yes. Now, Mo, there is one other major difference that I wanted to discuss just briefly. So in the stage show, the final time we see Mrs. Green is just after Alyssa has come out. Very emotional moment, and she decides that they'll talk later at home. So we don't have a clean, tidy resolution for that character. Her actions and behaviors throughout the show have made it clear it's not going to be an instant acceptance of who her daughter is. So we see her needing to take that time to complete her journey, and we never do see what ends up happening there. In the film adaptation, however, Kerry Washington shows up in a very loud dress at the inclusive prom to tell Alyssa that she loves and accepts her no matter what after the scene in which she says we'll talk later earlier in the day. Was this a bit contrived, a bit too fast for her character?

[8:19] Mo Brady: Yes, I will say so. It was very Velma von Tussle in the Hairspray finale, I thought. But somehow in this world, and I'll talk a little bit about that later as well, it didn't bother me. It worked for me. It was a nice heartwarming moment that I thought we deserved in 2020, and I'll talk more about why I thought it worked later. Let's jump in. Let's talk about what works.

[8:37] Jackson Klein: All right. So for me, going back to seeing these flashback sequences, similarly, the film allows us to have expanded locations, which was exciting as well. We get to see Sardi's in a way we didn't on Broadway. We get to visit the mall and go on a shopping spree during Tonight Belongs to You. We get to see the kids taking their limos to the prom. We see more of Emma's house. It was just exciting visually to open up that world, like you were saying with the flashbacks.

[9:07] Mo Brady: The curtain goes up, and every now and then it feels as if we're coming home again.

[9:18] Jackson Klein: And yes, coming home again. I think, really, as a theater person, the most fun set is the imaginary 44th Street or 45th Street in the theater district. They've created this sort of street that looks so similar to a street in the theater district, but is not true. It puts the music box and the Imperial next to Sardi's. People who know the theater district know that this is not actually what it looks like, but it's sort of like a best-of space that I really loved. I loved that imaginary street where the Golden is between the Schubert and the Broadhurst. There's no room there for another theater. That's literally where trash cans go, but in this magic world, they're all together. Also, having spent some time on the second floor of Sardi's, this version of the second floor of Sardi's is much nicer than the real version.

[10:17] Mo Brady: Yes, yes, yes.

[10:19] Jackson Klein: And I liked using that space when they are on their way to Edgewater. They're marching down that theater street. We get to see people piling out. We get to see pre and post the Eleanor performance, Frank Dilella playing Frank Dilella on the red carpet on the street. Barry and Dee Dee marching out of the theater on their way to Sardi's for their opening night party. Maybe it's just because I miss the theater district so much, like seeing an ode to it, and even like a fantasy ode that cared about details so much. I just loved it.

[10:53] Mo Brady: A fantasy as if Broadway was just one street.

[10:56] Jackson Klein: I loved it too. And speaking of missing theater, I thought a sequence that was very effective for me in this film was We Look to You. It just hits differently when Broadway is shut down, when so many theaters around the country are shut down, when we can't make theater or see theater as easily. The circumstances that we're currently in combined with Keegan-Michael Key's heartfelt, sincere performance of that number, the flashback sequences of him seeing Dee Dee perform just really, really got me, Mo. I was crying on my couch.

[11:29] Mo Brady: Loving that moment. That was something I thought worked better. Some things happen in a film version because they can't happen on stage. But this I thought was actually something that was better. And you can imagine a theater production where during "We Look to You," we see "Swallow the Moon" being performed upstage in a similar way as we do in the movie. And also, I understand why "We Look to You" exists. But in a Casey Nicholaw show that just keeps coming and coming and coming, it always felt to me like the first moment where I started to look at my imaginary watch in the show. And showing us Dee Dee performing in flashback and Hawkins watching Dee Dee just keeps the momentum going. I mean, let's talk about the momentum going. We missed the last two-thirds of the acceptance song, which I always thought was a little long in the tooth on stage. We missed the last third of "You Happened," which I missed, personally.

[12:34] Jackson Klein: I did too. For a really faithful stage-to-screen adaptation, those sorts of things were very noticeable. And it made you realize, oh my gosh, there are very few changes in what we saw on Broadway to what we're seeing in terms of the text.

[12:43] Mo Brady: Agreed, agreed. I thought the "You Happened" cut was just very awkward musically. I thought it made sense with the flow and pace of the film. But musically, that cutoff was just very awkward. It seemed like it should have kept going. And that might just be me knowing the show so well. I wanted them to be behind the racks of chairs and upstage Mylar balloons spelling out the word prom going up into the air. You know what does really work for me in this, and I actually think this might be my favorite part of the movie, is Alyssa. I really liked Ariana DeBose in this role. I really thought that she brought a lot of truth to it. Not better than Isabelle McCullough, just different. But whereas Isabelle McCullough was surrounded by a lot of great truthy performances on stage, I thought Ariana stood out in this in a really unique way.

And we see some different things that I think work. The reveal of Alyssa as Emma's prom date at the top of "I Just Want to Dance With You." Giving Alyssa a person to sing her song to in the second act is a really good idea. I always felt like it sort of, again, stopped the action to have Alyssa sing her song in act two. But when she is using it to explain to Emma why she's not gonna go with Emma on her big coming out performance, I thought it just was a better use of that song.

[14:08] Mo Brady: I agree. I agree. I loved Ariana's performance. I thought it was terrific. Again, equal level as Isabelle's, but just very, very different. Big fan.

[14:20] Jackson Klein: You had no more shits to give. And in this other life, die when you tell yourself be brave. You won't give. That's the one thing I truly crave.

[14:36] Mo Brady: All right, let's get to the meat and potatoes.

[14:39] Jackson Klein: All right. Let's talk about what didn't work for us. Go ahead.

[14:45] Mo Brady: All right, Mo. What did not work for me was casting a straight actor as Barry Glickman. And I'm not putting that on James Corden. That is on the creative team's decision to go in this direction for casting. In a show that celebrates queer people, I think that casting as many openly queer actors in those queer roles as possible is very important. It not only tells the audience that queer stories are important and worthy of being told by queer people, but it gives those who may need a queer public figure to look up to those people, right? People who aren't in queer metropolises like New York City or San Francisco, who aren't seeing that every day. I think that gives them something after they walk away from the film.

Specifically with the character of Barry, the character is built on a gay stereotype. Without a gay person playing that role, I find that the entire role immediately becomes an offensive, potentially harmful and uninspired joke. And that's how I felt watching the character on film.

[15:42] Jackson Klein: Yeah, it's a challenge, James Corden playing the role. And certainly some people, including yourself, feel like he's playing into stereotypes. I don't know where I fall on this line of should roles by marginalized groups be played by people in those marginalized groups, right? We see a spectrum, right? I think we all agree in 2020 that like trans characters should be played by trans actors and black characters should be played by black actors. And then we get to this sort of fuzzy space of how marginalized are queer people in 2020. How important is it for actors to be able to sort of stretch those muscles, right? Because we allow American actors to play British characters and that is a part of their personal identity.

Right here in the middle, we've got the queer question, which I think we're grappling with as people in the entertainment industry and people who love the entertainment industry. So I just want to sort of flag your concern and say yes, and. My opinion on it is the best person for the job can play a queer character. And if they do a good job of showing us something about that character, then their sexuality doesn't matter. I don't feel like James Corden does a good job. And having seen and especially where we are very much thinking about this recent film with characters that are pretty much based on the actors who created them. It is very hard to not think about Brooks' Ashman Kiss and see that Brooks' performance feels more dropped in.

[17:22] Mo Brady: Absolutely. But it goes back to my major critique of the film, which is it doesn't feel well-directed. It doesn't feel to me like any of these actors have talked to each other about where these characters are going and what their journeys are. Meryl Streep is doing something and James Corden is doing something and Nicole Kidman is doing something, but they're not all working together, which we really saw in the stage production.

[17:52] Jackson Klein: Agreed. It doesn't feel like a team. And what really stood out to me was Joe Ellen Pellman's performance of "Just Breathe," Emma's first song. The way that Joe Ellen plays the role is she's smiling through the whole song. She's like smiling through the hallways and she's smiling on the unnecessary swim team. And I was like, why is she smiling so much? Like it didn't make sense. Like it doesn't make sense. And it just feels like nobody told her that your character's got to go on a journey. Your character is the heart of this flashy musical with a lot of big personalities, but we need to follow you from being unhappy and unaccepting of yourself in a way to really truly accepting yourself in a way and inspiring other people to do as well. And the performance of "Breathe" like really just got me off on a bad foot with her. What did you think?

[18:41] Mo Brady: I agree. I felt a lot of the musical numbers, especially more so than the scenes, including "Just Breathe," felt a little bit like Glee covers, which with Ryan Murphy at the helm doesn't surprise me, but it felt polished and performative without really taking us on journeys a lot of the time. And that number, especially, I would agree with on that. And then to bookend it with just a strange version of "Unruly Heart."

[19:03] Jackson Klein: "Unruly Heart," we've talked about.

[19:08] Mo Brady: Oh, yeah. And we've shared on the podcast, like it is an anthem. It is the moment where I think the show really sort of elevates itself. The prom is a really fun, good show for the first hour and a half, two hours. And then with "Unruly Heart," it transcends into something else. And it was truncated. It's on these weird rotating beds. All of the kids that are watching Emma's performance are just as smiley as she was in "Breathe." Like it's just I don't like it really was disappointing to watch a song that I know can be so emotionally powerful, just sort of come and go.

[19:39] Jackson Klein: Agreed. This is the first time I have ever watched that song without bursting into tears, Mel. I thought the stage show does such a good job in this moment of, of course, it's a well-written song. But beyond that, they find the power in the simplicity and the stillness and the authenticity. And here we had the unnecessary rotating beds. So weird. The smiles. Just like what did the beds mean? What did the beds rotating mean? Like, I honestly don't know. I think they were scared to have too much stillness in a film that is so loud and zazzy. I think that's what it was. And they didn't trust that moment when if they had, it would have been more powerful. I also think they missed an opportunity there to really expand the ensemble of "Unruly Heart" children. We had fewer than we did in the Broadway production. I think if we had had a virtual choir, you know, dozens of children, giving us actual journeys there, that could have really helped it land better as well.

[20:38] Mo Brady: Oh, sure. We could have gotten into like flashbacks and seen those kids feeling like lonely or missed opportunity, Ryan. So let's break it down. In the end, did you enjoy the film adaptation of The Prom, Jackson Klein?

[20:53] Jackson Klein: Well, no. It is very challenging to take this Broadway-centered story and put it on film. It is very challenging to take a show written for a very specific group of stage actors, cast film stars, and put that on film. Yet I still found myself enjoying much of it. Did it have the emotional impact on me that the Broadway show did? No. But I'm glad the story is being told. I'm glad it's going to reach a wider audience. I still left with a smile on my face. What about you?

[21:28] Mo Brady: I keep thinking about the idea that more people will see The Prom in its first day on Netflix than ever saw it on Broadway. And even in an adaptation that doesn't get to the heart of the piece, I think that's worthy. I think it's worthy to exist in the world. I think it is a good time. And it's a great showcase for this story. It's a great showcase for this music. So in the end, I enjoyed watching it. I probably enjoyed it a little less than I would have if I was walking into it blind. But in that sort of gleeification way, in that way that you know it's maybe not like getting as deep as it could be, I think I'll come back to it and Spotify the score.

[22:09] Jackson Klein: Absolutely. Oh my gosh, Jackson, we did it! We did it!

[22:19] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Jackson Klein for sharing his stories with us today. The Ensemblist was produced today by Kirsten Anderson, Jackson, and me, Mo Brady. There are two great ways you can be helping The Ensemblist right now. One is by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And the second is by becoming a Patreon member, which you can do at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Please follow The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. You can also follow us on Instagram. Thanks for listening. Until next time.