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[0:00] Unknown speaker: If there's no I in team, then I guess there's no me in community. See, people need people. Simple as fact. The people around have a heavy impact on what feelings go down. A collection of a selection of like-minded folks who crack similar jokes and avoid ego strokes to tell you what matters most can make you feel ten feet taller. Big money baller. No one's denying the power of numbers. Just simply implying not everyone will always have your back. So what's your plan of attack when you can't attack? Unspoken pact to cooperate, negotiate, dedicate time to solving crimes instead of pointing fingers? In team, mix some letters and you can make me. In community, the you does come before the I, but for some reason everything comes before the why.

It's one world. It's all we got. And I realize we gotta share, but isn't it fair to question or be aware of the differences that grow us, show us humanity should care? So let's try. I'll try to come together to get through the inevitable stormy weather. There's an I in community. And there's also a you. Could have us if you spelled it wrong. Shit. Can we all just get along?

[1:22] Christine Shepard: Today, our conversation is going to be under the umbrella community versus the individual. What's the balance? We all belong to several communities, and each one has an effect on our actions and thoughts. In the entertainment industry, being an individual is unbelievably valuable. Sheep are much easier to replace than shepherds. With the current wave of people taking notice to minority groups speaking out against injustice, exposure to misconduct, lack of morality and corruption, we as a country have hit a crossroads where ignorance can no longer be used as an excuse. Now that you have the knowledge, what are you going to do with it? Being an individual is all about following your moral compass and knowing what you can and can't compromise on.

But I want to make this perfectly clear. Differences are cool. I would rather grow than agree. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. Get excited because y'all are going to get a little taste, a little, little sampler plate of the incomparable cast of Head Over Heels. I met all three of our guests when joining the production, and we shared an incredible experience in a Broadway show that was light years ahead of its time. So without further ado, let me introduce today's panel. Bring them out, bring them out, bring them out, bring them out. It's hard to yell when the barrel's in your mouth. Our grooves may be considered a textbook artist, actress, singer, songstress, dancer, teacher, DJ, music producer, fashion and hair icon.

There is no bounds to what she can and will create. She was part of both the Broadway cast of Holler If You Hear Me and the off-Broadway revival of Little Shop of Horrors. As a board member of Broadway for Radical Justice, she fights to use her platform to speak truth about important social issues that affect our community. Clearly an overall badass. Ricardo Zayas is a performer who's had the opportunity and talent to excel in multiple facets of the performing world. You name it, classical, contemporary, live theater, television, or film, he's done it. Born and raised in New York, he graduated from the Ailey Fordham BFA program with honors and since has graced countless stages and screens worldwide.

Ailey 2, the Motown National Tour, Spielberg's upcoming West Side Story remake, just to name a few. Erica Jackson is a musical force to be reckoned with. She is a graduate of Carnegie Mellon and has just begun to place her stamp on the performing industry. Erica toured with the first national company of Waitress and became an understudy for the Broadway production. Thank you guys so much for agreeing to talk with me. I think it's going to be a great mix of different ideas and viewpoints. So let's get started. Let's just get started on some questions. Let's list out some of the most prominent communities we are a part of and then how do they align and how do they clash. I mean that's, I mean it's super broad. Anything from your work community, your friendships, your families, all the way to, help me out here.

[4:58] Ari Groover: I'm definitely part of the Black community. I'm Christian, so I'm part of the Christianity community, but I mean specifically Baptist. Part of the theater community. I'm a huge feminist, so there. And an ally for LGBTQ, like I consider myself an ally. No, yeah, but I think it's funny like the word community is so broad, you know, because it is things like your outward appearance can be your community versus how the way you think can be its own community versus places you've been is its own community. So it's kind of interesting. Or schools you went to, because I know that can kind of, and definitely on Broadway, of like who, what school you went to, or whatever. But it doesn't matter, you know, because as soon as like we're all working together, that's the community that holds you and supports you and like really does wish you well, you know.

[5:50] Ricardo Zayas: Right. I am Puerto Rican, so I consider myself part of the Latino community, Latinx community. Within that diaspora, I also consider myself Black as well. I am a performer and artist, so definitely part of the artistic community, as vague as that is. Yeah, I'm every man's man. Oh, gay queer community as well. Sorry, I forgot. Okay. Did I say that? I probably said that already. I'm probably not from this planet.

[6:25] Arica Jackson: True. I guess. Shout out to the alien community. I guess, as you can see, I am a Black woman, not only just Black, but Afro-Latinx descent, the Dominicans, the Black females, which is so funny because I did not grow up that way. I am a Southern Black woman with spiritual roots that comes from the Geechee Gullah part of Georgia, living in New York. Hey. Oh, you got that. Go on, go on. Tell them, tell them. The queer community. Hell, I'm probably queer myself. I don't know. I'm just here, liking whatever I like.

[7:04] Christine Shepard: Okay. With all these different groups that we align ourselves with or associate ourselves with, when do you feel as though sometimes they kind of butt heads or clash either in ideas or in practice or, you know, stuff like that?

[7:19] Ari Groover: Well, I definitely think that being Black and being part of the Christianity community, you can definitely see clashes when it comes to gay rights or issues about women's rights, just issues about something that's not entirely part of the traditional Christian structure. But at the same time, I'm always about, the core thing is about love and acceptance, and that's why they shouldn't be clashing. But for some people, everybody's interpretation of religion is different.

[7:51] Ricardo Zayas: It's unfortunate because I feel like in many ways, Christianity and Black culture had supported each other in a way that like, this is where our civil rights leaders came from. These people banded together and were able to get a mass amount of people to talk about equality and human rights. But, you know, also, you know, that was the world back then in the 60s too, but still now. But when it comes to now that gay rights are in the forefront, trans rights are in the forefront, it's hard to see them clashing, but it is happening because I don't think, you know, it's just not in some people's view of what tradition is. And I don't think it's about that. I think it's about acceptance and here I exist, you know, and you need to love that.

[8:34] Arica Jackson: Right. You even see it with Black Lives Matter blowing up and the divide that's almost started to happen with Black queer lives matter and like, you know, kind of the misinterpretation of what people really meant when we said Black Lives Matter.

[8:47] Ari Groover: Right. It's like the little asterisk at the end of it, where it's like Black Lives Matter asterisk, except if you are queer, trans, it's like all these stipulations. It's like, no, like every life was counted in that. And now you can't like, yeah, it's just, I don't know. I find it funny, the dualities of the different entertainment communities.

[9:12] Ricardo Zayas: Like that is such a real thing. Not only just how it is in Broadway community, how the commercial dance community to even the music scene and underground scene, because as a DJ, that's a whole different thing as well. And how, for some reason they clash when they're ultimately trying to do the same goal, which is provide art for people and live our best lives.

[9:36] Arica Jackson: Right. Even within the Broadway community, like this whole thing with like, we see you white people, and then you still have some people who are feeling like see white people as a little too extreme.

[9:50] Ricardo Zayas: You mean like the white producers and directors?

[9:55] Arica Jackson: We see y'all. And I mean, look at us now. We about to still be at our jobs probably a year later. Yep.

[10:01] Ricardo Zayas: And nothing has necessarily changed because Broadway ain't got no money, y'all. But to see just this bickering between who is doing enough.

[10:11] Arica Jackson: Yeah. Killing me because I'm just like, ultimately, we all kind of want the same goal. I think our approach is different.

[10:19] Ricardo Zayas: Yeah. I've seen a constant divide within the Broadway world where it's just like, how can you say such and such if you've never been on Broadway? Well, how can you say this if you've never had to struggle? You've always been booked. It's always, it's like that dichotomy of like, the girls that are booking and the girls that may not have a union or may not be AEA affiliated, but still books. It's like, this is eye awakening. And I'm just like, oh, child.

[10:46] Arica Jackson: Yeah. And it's frustrating to see unions battling against each other, like seeing SAG-AFTRA and Actors' Equity when it's like, you guys both support actors and entertainers and people behind the scenes. So why can't we come together? This time, it's all about coming together, not every man for himself. And it's frustrating. It is very frustrating.

[11:07] Ari Groover: That was tiresome. When I heard about that, I was like, y'all, I'm tired. Y'all, what? It's just really dismal. It's like, where's the hope? Y'all supposed to be advocating for us. And look how y'all act.

[11:20] Christine Shepard: Oh my God. Okay. All right. Let's keep it.

[11:22] Christine Shepard: In a supportive, safe community, is there such a thing as being too close?

[22:45] Ari Groover: What are some red flags to look for when you start to feel you and your community don't see eye-to-eye?

[23:10] Arica Jackson: Oh. Oh. Tension. The tension. It's just like, ooh, the tension be real. You cut it with a knife sometimes.

[23:25] Ricardo Zayas: Okay.

[23:27] Arica Jackson: Yeah. Oh. Think like Laffy Taffy, honey.

[23:31] Ari Groover: Well, a red flag for me, I just pick up on people's energies. I'm like, oh, this person's in their feelings today. Give them their full six feet of quarantine COVID space.

[23:44] Arica Jackson: Okay.

[23:45] Ari Groover: Because they need it. So I'm gonna be, but again, yo, I'll be over here when you're done with that. I'm right here.

[23:53] Ricardo Zayas: Right.

[23:54] Ari Groover: I'm not gonna shun you, but I will be right over here, well out of your way. Call me. You got the number.

[24:03] Arica Jackson: I mean, I do that. Like when I am not in the mood, I'm by myself. And I will not be in the mood by myself. I'm not gonna be not in the mood in a public space or forum, spreading my nasty ass energy to everybody else. I'll just be like, you know what? I need a minute.

[24:22] Ari Groover: So again, I'll be right over here. I'm gonna take a shower, I'm gonna woosah, hit a notation, maybe do like a release of some sort, whatever I need to figure out.

[24:35] Ricardo Zayas: Right.

[24:36] Ari Groover: Hit me tomorrow. Hit me tomorrow.

[24:39] Arica Jackson: Right. I'm not gonna be a red flag of like nasty energy. I'm like, keep that to yourself, bruh.

[24:45] Ricardo Zayas: Right.

[24:46] Arica Jackson: Or like the second when they say, like for at least with church, if they start preaching hate, that's a huge red flag. You're not supposed to hate. Where does that come in to your language?

[24:59] Ari Groover: But you know, some people like to even distort it and be like, that's the devil and this is the devil. And that's to me a huge red flag when they start twisting things that you don't understand or ignorant of and just immediately say it's bad. Immediately say that's evil. You know?

[25:15] Ricardo Zayas: Yeah.

[25:16] Arica Jackson: Or just contradictions. Like you.

[25:18] Ari Groover: Yeah. I hate to say it. Sometimes I feel like the reason why I haven't really been so close to more of my Afro Latinx side, which sucks, is because colorism is a thing, it's a thing everywhere. But it's so, especially in the Dominican culture, it's so prevalent of how you look a certain way and your whole caste system, you're treated differently.

[25:45] Arica Jackson: Not growing up Latin enough, but then, you know, as you get older, you want to do research on yourself and you figure yourself out. And I'm still doing that now, but there's a lot of things where I'm just like, dang, man.

[25:57] Ricardo Zayas: Okay.

[25:58] Ari Groover: My Spanish ain't the best. I'm out. Oh, because I look dark, like raisins. I'm out. Yeah. My hair ain't straight. I'm out.

[26:10] Arica Jackson: And we all know what it's like to have people look at you based off of color. I mean, look, we all black. But we do it to ourselves where I'm just like, you know, history will tell us how our history happened as people.

[26:24] Ari Groover: So to disown me for being something that I am and something that you are as well, even though you may not necessarily agree and want to claim it because brainwashing has told you that black is bad is sometimes like my thing where I'm like, all right, that's a red flag, but it's not everybody.

[26:43] Arica Jackson: It's not everybody.

[26:44] Ari Groover: I don't want to put everybody in that category, but I do think that is, for me, just my personal experience. That's something where I've been like, all right, well, this person, you're not for me because you're ignorant in history.

[26:56] Ricardo Zayas: Yeah.

[26:58] Ari Groover: I'll go to somebody else who understands, who fits into the realm that I'm in. Look at Rickey.

[27:04] Arica Jackson: I'll be over at Rickey all the time.

[27:07] Ari Groover: I have... Okay. I have... Rickey, help us with the out.

[27:12] Ricardo Zayas: Okay. I have a really good anecdote for this. I'm at brunch with some friends and the waitress is just going on and on about how like somebody didn't come to work and so that's why she's there. And she's like, you know, he acting all light skin. He called out because he got invited to the Kanye concert, like back when Kanye was doing the Sunday service.

[27:37] Arica Jackson: Right.

[27:38] Ricardo Zayas: And she's like, yeah, he acted light skin just like you. And I'm like, girl, I don't know how I'm acting light skin trying to give you my order, but okay.

[27:46] Ari Groover: Right.

[27:47] Ricardo Zayas: What? Okay, yo. And so, and she's like, and for Kanye, like, you know, he's da, da, da, da, da, da, and she was like, oh, but if it was Drake, da, da, da, da, da, and I was like, oh, so for the light skin concert, you would have called out for it, but because it's Kanye, like, I don't know.

[28:05] Arica Jackson: It's just funny.

[28:06] Ricardo Zayas: I, you know, and I get, you know, I get that kind of a lot. I'm fine with it, but sometimes it actually does diminish, it doesn't, but it can seemingly diminish my aptitude where like, like, you know, between us, the joking is funny, but if I'm hired for a job and you tell me, oh, you probably just got it because you're light skin, hold the fuck up. No, I got it because I'm talented.

[28:29] Ari Groover: Right.

[28:30] Ricardo Zayas: Like, you know what I mean? We have to be careful about that because that diminishes that person's character or their actual talent or again, like their aptitude or they're actually being right for whatever it is that we're talking about.

[28:44] Arica Jackson: Exactly.

[28:45] Ari Groover: I want to swing back to contradictions because I think that our community is drowning in contradictions.

[28:51] Ricardo Zayas: Right.

[28:52] Ari Groover: I think literally like neck deep, like hell and you know, it's so funny, drowning in the shallow water, a kiddie pool, but they can save their ways. They can save themselves if they just stood up, but they can cut it right there because that's it.

[29:14] Ricardo Zayas: That's literally if you would just stand up, maybe after you've done all you can, you just...

[29:19] Ari Groover: Like, oh man, that's exactly what it is.

[29:29] Ricardo Zayas: It's exactly what it is.

[29:31] Ari Groover: I'm extremely exhausted of all of these like sympathetic actions to try to balance and coincide the actual issues.

[29:39] Ricardo Zayas: Like that's for me, my red flag. When you start making Black Lives Matter wicked t-shirts as something to try to like, quote unquote, like spread awareness, but like it's just $50, like that's when I'm like, what's going on?

[29:57] Arica Jackson: Oh, bro, bro, sis.

[30:04] Ari Groover: With 0.04% going toward the charity.

[30:09] Ricardo Zayas: I think savortism is the red flag I look for. And it's rampant now too, because we're all at home and now you get to see all this violence against black people. And now it's like, are you going to actually stand for something that's right? Or are you just standing because it sounds right?

[30:28] Ari Groover: It sounds like it'll make my image better and okay, and everybody will think I'm okay with you. You know what I'm saying? It's about morality. It's about human beings. It's about not profiting off of people's pain, which, you know, that happens a lot too, just saying.

[30:47] Arica Jackson: I was going to say, I remember dating someone that was very much the, I am doing this because this is what good people do type.

[30:54] Ari Groover: Right.

[30:58] Arica Jackson: And wasn't the, I'm doing this because I'm so moved to do this. So all that is to say, everybody's place is not in the battleground.

[31:11] Ricardo Zayas: There I said it.

[31:15] Arica Jackson: Should we all be passionate about the issue? Absolutely. Is it everyone's job to be that person? No. You can do other things. You can, in your own way, support the cause if, again, if you so feel moved to do it.

[31:35] Ari Groover: You will just continue to resent this thing or resent everything that you do in your life because you're like, oh, good people do this. So I should do that. It's like, no, no, no. Do it because it's from your heart.

[31:48] Arica Jackson: You're genuinely moved to do it. Otherwise, keep it.

[31:52] Ari Groover: Otherwise, just keep it because I don't need it.

[31:55] Ricardo Zayas: Keep it.

[31:56] Arica Jackson: Just keep it.

[31:57] Ari Groover: I don't need it. It comes back to the performative world in which we live in, you know what I mean? And sometimes I think some people are very subconscious about it.

[32:05] Ricardo Zayas: And sometimes I think people are very conscious about it.

[32:07] Ari Groover: I think it's really hard to be able to tell.

[32:09] Ricardo Zayas: Not really hard. Sometimes it's obvious.

[32:10] Ari Groover: Some people think they'd be slick.

[32:11] Ricardo Zayas: Like they'd be thinking like they'd be doing something, like they'd be like, ooh, look at me.

[32:16] Ari Groover: And you'd be like, you big dummy. I know.

[32:18] Ricardo Zayas: I know you don't care.

[32:21] Ari Groover: I know you don't care. You only care because I needed to fill the quota.

[32:27] Ricardo Zayas: I filled the quota that you happened for your concept video, okay?

[32:31] Ari Groover: Like, don't, don't, no.

[32:33] Ricardo Zayas: I know a couple of white people that was like, I'm going to be down. And then when they realized, they said, this happens almost every day in our world. Welcome.

[32:41] Ari Groover: It does, sis. Get in here.

[32:43] Ricardo Zayas: It does, sis.

[32:45] Ari Groover: It does. Y'all go through this a lot of times?

[32:48] Ricardo Zayas: Yes.

[32:49] Ari Groover: Just take the time to actually want to understand.

[32:53] Ricardo Zayas: Not just lead blindly by your ignorance.

[32:56] Ari Groover: It's painful.

[32:57] Ricardo Zayas: It really, I think that miscommunication keeps dividing us.

[33:01] Ari Groover: It's frustrating.

[33:10] Christine Shepard: Special thanks to Ari Groover, Arica Jackson, and Ricardo Zayas for sharing their stories with us. The Ensemblist was produced today by Mo Brady, Jackson Klein, and me, Christine Shepard.

[33:24] Christine Shepard: There are two great ways you can be helping The Ensemblist right now. One is by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. The second is by becoming a Patreon member at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist.

[33:40] Christine Shepard: Please follow The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or at our home on Broadway Podcast Network at bpn.fm.

[33:52] Christine Shepard: Thanks for listening. Until next time.