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[0:00] Christine Shepard: This is Christine Shepard back with the second half of my conversation with Ari Groover, Arica Jackson, and Ricardo Zayas. Here's the second half of our roundtable discussion about community versus the individual. Enjoy!

[0:15] Ari Groover: Tell us of a time or experience when you realized you had lost your individuality within a community.

[0:22] Ari Groover: It's too many, bruh. I gotta ponder on that one. Ooh, I gotta think. I hope I haven't. Okay, my philosophy on life is that you die when you stop learning. And so as I evolve, or hopefully would like to think I'm evolving, I think my path becomes clear to me. I've never been laser vision, like, this is what I want to do. I kind of let things open itself to me and like, have fun and figuring that out and that kind of floater mentality. So I don't know if I've ever lost myself. But I've definitely never found myself either.

[1:01] Arica Jackson: That's real. That's true.

[1:02] Ari Groover: I don't know who I am yet. It's still changing. There's a lot of amendments to that contract. So I don't know.

[1:15] Arica Jackson: No, that's real. And I think that your philosophy of going with the flow, like I resonate with now, but definitely not as a child, or even I would say as a teen. Once getting to New York, and you know, being surrounded by more like-minded people, and the level of exposure that a place like New York gives you. It's funny, I feel like the hecticness of New York lets you comfortably let go of the wheel almost in a sense. Like, like, you're just like, it'll work out. I don't know the B 103. I don't know, like you just so I would say as a kid, I definitely struggled heavily with that morphing and trying to fit into my own shoes. But also trying to make sure that my shoes fit in with everybody else's shoes, you know, or and even if it didn't fit in, because I wouldn't say I was the type of kid that was really, really passionate about looking like everybody else and being like everybody else.

I always wanted to make sure what my stuff was doing complimented what everybody was doing. It's like I knew that I knew that it wasn't going to be the same. And I was really cool with that. But I didn't want it to not fit in. Yeah, so I felt like I have that constant. Okay, like I'm Christine, this is me. Look, where where what do I do? What exactly do I wear and say and think and laugh at and what songs do I listen to so I can at least understand the conversation so that like, you know, I don't have to like this song, but I need to understand so that I understand the context and what's hanging out, right? You know, like just things like that. When I became an adult, I realized I was wasted energy.

But as a kid, it's so vital. And it feels so important because your world is so small, right? It's that waste of energy. I guess that's a better way of putting it because I always said it was kind of like my coping mechanism. I guess I never held anything in such an esteem that it was the end all be all. So if I heard no, it never felt good, but it wasn't earth shattering. It doesn't necessarily mean I gave up. It's just like, okay, things are slightly different. For example, the classical ballet world, there are people that are like, nope, I have to be a principal in the Paris Opera Ballet. And the only way I can do that is through the Paris Opera School. Everything is meticulously detailed.

And if you miss one step, it's like not gonna happen. Whereas it's like, okay, have we tried any other country's ballet company? Have we tried another art? Have we tried... Almost trapping yourself in something. Yeah.

[3:55] Arica Jackson: I don't know if that was a coping mechanism or if I was just smart enough to know there's so much else out there that's possible. I guess I've never lost myself in trying to become somebody specifically. Again, people have this precision idea of like, I want to be that person. I've never known who I wanted to be. I've just kind of figured it out. So when I was told, which has happened a lot, you know, I'm very lucky in my career, but I've been told no. Everyone has had an audition not go in their favor. It comes in territory. But it's never been like, oh, no. Okay, fine. Next, next. Moving on. Moving on. The have your moment hurts a little more when you put in the work and the effort. But that work and effort is not in vain. That work and effort goes towards something else. Maybe not obviously or specifically the way you saw it happening. But that was preparation for the rest of your life in some sense of the word.

[5:04] Ricardo Zayas: I agree. I totally because I feel that was me before even I came to New York where I wanted to be this big commercial background dancer for all these artists and all of this stuff. And for some reason, I was never black enough. I was never this enough. I was and especially coming from Atlanta, the way they like women and be fit and all these things. And my personality was not necessarily of that. It could be that but I was more of an underground person. Yeah, being eclectic. It's like people want you to be eclectic, but they don't want you to be eclectic. And it took me understanding that I did too many things to just do that one thing. I think like what people do when they are dancing, I think is wonderful and glorious.

And I will always have a love and heart for that. But it took me like coming out of Georgia into the unknown of New York to know that that was not my end all be all because that was just that one thing we could do so many other things. And I never thought musical theater would have been that thing. I'm gonna be honest with you. I was like, right. But even starting in musical theater, they were trying to place me and market me as Heather Headley, some something like that. I can't that's I that's her own person. I can't read that just because she's successful. And it was that for the longest to the point where I was just not booking stuff because either I didn't stand out enough. And I don't think it was that I think it's just they didn't know where to place me.

Yeah. And I was just like, oh, they don't know where to place me because people unfortunately, the business entertainment business are so shallow that they need something to be presented in front of them so that they can have an idea. Not all of it. But I feel like you know, you have to, they don't have to think to think.

[6:42] Ari Groover: Exactly. They can puzzle piece you.

[6:43] Ricardo Zayas: Exactly. It's so crazy that the heads in art are the least of the creative minded. But it took knowing somebody's laziness to understand my trajectory of what I needed. So I was like, you can't make this. And then I'm gonna make it in a way that y'all never thought of before, where y'all could be like, oh, that was dope. This is how culture gets started. This is how pop culture This is how we do things. We've been told no, or we don't fit in. We don't do this. We don't do that. We're not individual enough in some sense to fit in. But yet not is this catch 22. So the point that we end up creating our discos, our hip hops, our house music, our dance, our bulb, our ballroom scene, Ricky said, Well, you may have been told no, but that doesn't it's not going in vain.

So like, thinking about losing your individuality, I definitely thought back to my childhood of being black growing up in the suburbs. And I really struggled with it. And I tried so hard to wear the right clothes like Amber Cromby and Fitch, you know, all the rock music that I could. Oh, the good old code switch. Right, right. The old switch. And but at the same time on the weekends, I would go home to my grandma's house in Detroit on Bloom Street, like we in the hood. And sometimes I get so in touch with my blackness. And then on Monday, you got to go back to school in the suburbs. I didn't know how to protect my individuality and my blackness, because I didn't have the language or the knowledge to support myself.

I remember this one Sunday, my grandmother was like, your fro is so beautiful. You got to go to school like this. She had combed it out. It was huge. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go to school the next day. And everyone's gonna love it. And I remember this girl just coming up to me and saying, What's wrong with your hair? I grew up in a space where they don't accommodate me. But again, they, they are lazy, and they categorize you as like, okay, she speaks well, she does this well. So you're going to be in this group. And they start making you like exclude yourself from other black people even. I think it wasn't until like, I started seeing how it's really pointless to try to put myself in these boxes, like trying to be the sports person and trying to be all these other things when I really am a singer.

And I'm really am black. And I really got stuff to say and it's valid. And also just because I'm not from the hood, or I'm just because I'm from the suburbs doesn't make me less black or anything. So I and it's a constant battle, you know, now, but I'm definitely have more of the language and this everything because I have seen other black people pave the pathway for me and go through the same experience of someone excluding you and saying you're not enough or saying no. And you just breaking through that and saying no, this is my individuality. This is what's unique about me. This is my voice. It's hard to hear that no, but that no definitely said, Hey, this is who you are. Stop trying to deny it because you cannot literally fit in those boxes. You can't do it. Don't try.

[9:58] Ari Groover: Bravo.

[9:59] Arica Jackson: Stop trying to put yourself in a box.

[10:05] Christine Shepard: All right, y'all. I want to close it out with a little little roleplay. So I've drawn up some scenarios that I think any actor of color could find themselves in. Oh, and I made it so that it's

[10:20] Ari Groover: If I am in strong opposition to this political person, then I will not stand by that. I would not attend. I probably would give a formal letter to my employment just saying, hey, I'm not going to do this because of X, Y, Z, they contradict or go against certain beliefs of mine that would interfere with my life, you know, or interfere with the way that I live, or interfere with the way other people live. You know, I think we're at a time now where it is not acceptable to just grin and bear it just because the person has political power. It's about what are they doing for the community. I feel like that we have to really find where our morals are and where they stand and really stand in that truth and battle for it and protect it and stick up for others.

Because say that person does not affect me, that person is saying I'm going to take the rights away from my friend, I'm not going to attend. And I strongly I think we have to stand in that we're blessed to be in a country to say I have freedom of speech. And this is what I'm going to do with it. And I don't think it's right to ever sell yourself because of power, or because of fame or whatever. Is that two minutes? And that on that, that's what 18 she said. She said and that's that period. I'm like you had me at no pay.

[12:43] Arica Jackson: That's true. Okay. Oh, I have to leave. All right. Who next? Who next? All right. All right. Come on. All right. All right. You both give me this crazy one. I feel it. I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you this one. I'm gonna give you this one. You ready? Uh huh. All right. You're the only person of color in your 10 person ensemble. That's about right. There are no issues with people getting along and showing respect. Next month is your culture's heritage awareness month. And people begin asking you more questions about yourself, observing your habits more and inquiring from your opinion as a blank American. Do you, do you go about the next month as normal and ignore the period of cultural interrogation from coworkers or organize a day in the month to share, educate and celebrate your heritage with the cast and crew? And go ahead.

[14:39] Ricardo Zayas: I don't know. I'm torn in between the two because sometimes people genuinely who don't necessarily get the information to know, if it's in my heart of hearts and I feel good that day and I don't mind giving you information, cool, but what you're not going to do is wait until it's black history month and wait until it's Hispanic heritage month, Asian American month to now be interested in what I have to say, because my black is 365, for one. It's like the equivalent of all of these, these companies that are now coming out now, now that they are seeing all of us being killed on TV, cause they ain't got shit else to do. How can we help you? I want to understand your culture. I want to be able to connect more.

I will have to tell people, Hey, I appreciate the concern, even though it's a little late, I appreciate it. Here's the thing. There's a thing out there called Google on the worldwide web, right? If, let's say I'm not feeling up to educating you because it's not my job to do such things, you can go look it up. You can go find certain information about this set culture, things of what to do and what not to do. How about just in general, just get to know me as a person, understand and see that yes, there is systemic racism and biases against people of color and people who are like me, black. That doesn't mean that you all of a sudden, because it's the good thing to do, like we were talking earlier to go and be like, Hey, question.

So I was reading this book about Martin Luther King, and I just have so much questions about the plight of your people. And it's like, well, you can read that book and figure out more information and assess for yourself in a human way first, how people should be treated.

[18:02] Ari Groover: Time. There we go. Period. Because you know I was about to go in. Final answer, Google is your friend. Today. Google. I'm dead. All right. Last one. You ready, Ricky? Lay it on me. Okay. Tensions are high between the principles and the ensemble of your show. A principle was granted a week's vacation after just returning from a long weekend while an ensemble member was denied their request for two days to be in their sister's wedding and will not be granted extra sick days for their emergency route for now. The two groups have cut most of their communication with each other. Do you pick a side and let the divide grow stronger and each group become closer or become the middleman between the two groups? Listen and learn for both and decide if anything can be done. And kick it.

[19:43] Ricardo Zayas: Who are the two groups? Like the principles and the ensemble? Yes. I think this instance would be a great time to double down where I would say, okay, I'm like, no, this is a special occasion. This is literally my sister's wedding. I've missed tons of family outings over the years, but you know, there are some things where I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not willing to miss this. This is a special occasion for me. It means something. And if I'm, okay, well, I'm not going to be here that day. I'm not afraid. Like I'm not afraid to do that. I'm not coming in. Well, not to mention it's disrespectful for the ensemble if someone just has like extra vacation that they're just taking just cause. I'm not talking about being a brat.

I'm just like, in all fairness, this principle may make more money, may have a bigger role in this than I do. But in the grand scheme of life, we are equal human beings. And I deserve, if not the same treatment, at least the amount of respect that I deserve myself, which has taken me maybe a little bit of a minute to get to that place. But if I honestly feel like I deserve something, I don't have a problem asking for it. And if I don't get it, I don't have a problem taking it or leaving or what have you. I don't think it's the place of one person. I think that's a great opportunity, for example, a union representative to step in. And I mean, these are exactly the reason why rules are set in place is for when things come up like this, again, it's not like I'm taking just random sick days of like, no, no, no. I gave you plenty of time.

I've had a job where I've literally said, hey, I need to miss for this. And they were like, oh, sorry, it's day one. We don't even have a system implemented for days off yet. And I was like, OK, well, put that in whenever you get the system.