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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. I'm Mo Brady.

[0:22] Mo Brady: One of the not-so-secret secrets in this show about secrets is that The Addams Family went through massive structural changes multiple times on its way to becoming the most popular musical in America. Many of those conversations were noted in my previous conversations with writer Rick Elice and associate choreographer Daunte Kiehn, solidifying the focus on the family, the addition of the wedding curtain call, etc. But both Rick and Daunte had been with the show since before rehearsals for the pre-Broadway tryout in Chicago. I wanted to speak to someone who was a part of the changes made on the show's journey to Broadway, so I called up Steve Bebout. For most of 2011, Steve Bebout was my lifeline at the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre.

As both a replacement and as an understudy, I rarely worked with any of the show's top creative team. As is the case with most Broadway mega-musicals, the director and choreographer mount the production and then move on to developing and mounting other productions. Employed to maintain their vision are the show's associate directors and choreographers, who, along with stage managers and dance captains, become the main creative voices in the building day after day. I say that Steve was my lifeline not only because he taught me how not to get in the way of the production's massive automated set, but because I always felt like he believed in me. Sure, an associate director has a lot of masters to report to, but I always felt like Steve was on my side.

He knew I was an artist hired to replicate other artists' creative processes, so he helped me find my own ways into the characters that wouldn't steer the production off course. He always treated my ideas as valid, and for that, I will always be grateful.

[2:02] Mo Brady: Wait! This is where I first saw her, Wednesday, with a crossbow, and she looked like Diana the Huntress.

[2:13] Mo Brady: Steve Bebout has worked as the associate director on four massive Broadway musicals, including Something Rotten!, The Book of Mormon, and Sister Act. But for Steve, like me, The Addams Family was his Broadway debut. We were both initially outsiders, entering the main stem through this blumbering, imperfect production, so I wanted to get his take on what made the show work from when he first joined the team in late 2009.

[2:38] Steve Bebout: A normal night is a perilous trick. Normal is hard to attain. Children are crazy and parents are quick. Passions are hard to explain.

[2:55] Mo Brady: Can you tell us, kind of quickly, your journey with The Addams Family?

[2:58] Steve Bebout: Sure. So I was working with Jerry Zaks at that time. I was seeing the New York Post articles, like everyone, reporting from, you know, the tryout in Chicago and reading all of that stuff. And then, all of a sudden, next thing I knew, Jerry said, we're flying to Chicago and we're going to go watch The Addams Family and meet the producer afterwards.

[3:20] Mo Brady: Wait, so what do you mean? Like, what is working with Jerry Zaks?

[3:24] Steve Bebout: Yeah, I had started working with him on... I'm trying to remember the exact thing that got me... The first thing I was working on with him was the musical of 101 Dalmatians. Yeah, another chef's kiss into the air. Yeah, that was... We started working on that together. And then we really hit it off and I started working with him on other projects that he was working on. So we were, I think we were at that time, I think we were working on the, what was going to be the Broadway... Yeah, it was going to be, it was nerds, you know, before Casey Hushan, like long before that. It was going to go to the Kerr, if I remember correctly. And so we were working on that together and we just hit it off and it kind of felt like we were in a place where I got my dream job and lucked into working with Jerry Zaks on whatever he did. And so, yeah, that's where we were. And I hadn't been with him long, maybe a year or two at the time that Addams Family came around.

[4:22] Steve Bebout: So he says, pack your bags, we're going to Chicago. We went to Chicago to see the show and meet the writers and the producer, Stuart Okun, and just talk about the show and so that Jerry could see it, see if it was something he thought he could help out because they were struggling and looking for somebody to come in and help them.

[4:41] Mo Brady: So that leads me to two questions, and I'm not sure which you would want to answer first. So what was the show that you saw and what did Stuart and the writers tell you the show they wanted was?

[4:55] Steve Bebout: The show that I saw, first of all, was gorgeous. I mean, I don't, you know what I was thinking about, like when I read your email, I was thinking about that, like One Normal Night song and that sequence. That thing was gorgeous. It was unbelievable to look at. And so much of the show was, I mean, I knew Julian and Phelan because I love Shock Headed Peter. So when I went to see that show, it was so cool to see a big budget given to the guys that did Shock Headed Peter. I mean, it was like the operas that Julian had designed, but even more fully realized. So that was the, that was the first thing that struck me was just how beautiful the show looked. And as the show went along, what did I see?

I saw a lot of different shows, like 30 of them in one because you had arguably the greatest, well, no, I think the greatest comedic actor of our time in musical comedy and Nathan Lane and B.B. Newerth and like Kevin Chamberlain and all these just amazing actors. And they were all kind of in their own show. And the tone of the show drifted around, not in a pleasurable way, I would say. It was a little long. It had lost its way. And in the absence of a path, everyone had sort of chosen their own path, I think, and saved their asses, you know, because they had to go up there and say the words. But like all the shows were good because there was so much talent there. And Andrew Lippa's music was fantastic and like very interesting.

And you got, again, like just Marshall Brickman and Rick Ellis writing a book that was really funny. But the show didn't have a North Star. And I think that's what Jerry did. Jerry became the North Star of that show. He just gave everybody a goal, got everybody on the same page and put everybody in pursuit of that thing. And that's what it needed.

[6:51] Mo Brady: Love lets you spirits depart. Some let the normalcy start.

[7:02] Mo Brady: So what was that North Star?

[7:04] Steve Bebout: The thing that it needed, given its talent, the people that were there, you know, Charles Adams cartoons, maybe they didn't make you laugh, but they put a smile on your face. And certainly the television show that people know more than they knew the cartoons was a comedy. And that's one of the main things that Jerry worked towards was to make sure it was funny. It was going to be funny. I think I remember him saying the show is going to be funny. And then after that, it's going to be funny. And then it's going to be funny after that. And then it's going to be very dark and beautiful. And then after that, it's going to be funny again. And then it's going to be funny and or some version of that.

And it really was like he wanted to invest in the comedy. He wanted to make sure that people knew they were in a musical comedy. You know, one of Jerry's best quotes. Well, I don't know. He's got a lot of them. But one of my favorites is he says he always said that the sound of an audience laughing is the sound of an audience falling in love with a character. And that show is a great illustration of that. And the way that the audiences fell in love with those actors and those characters through the comedy is something that Jerry put a huge premium on. And it had a great effect on the show. Beyond the comedy, Jerry has a different style than Phelan and Julian do for sure, like the way he runs a room.

And I wasn't around to see Julian and Phelan work in the room. But, you know, they used open space technology. I think that's what it's called. It's a way of working that encourages everyone in the room to feel like they have a voice. This is a bad. I shouldn't be the one describing this because I wasn't around for it. I'm just going on hearsay. But I think that also probably contributed to some of the problems on the show. Everyone had a voice. And so there was no clear voice to follow. And Jerry brought a voice to follow. He was the boss. And if things went wrong, it was his fault. And if they went great, the actors just look great. And it wasn't a problem. He'll take on all of that for, you know, not just his actors, but his crew and his designers.

You know, everybody thinks Jerry, Jerry's this master of musical comedy and he is, but he's just a great director. That's all it boils down to. So that's the other thing he brought to it was Jerry's act. One of the best directors that we've had plays, movies, musicals. He's done it all at a very, very high level. And he's just got this ability with actors to just cut to the nut of what's happening. And he makes it all just seem so simple and obvious because it is simple and obvious to him. Everyone's trying really hard to show this or demonstrate this. And he's like, or you could just tell her you love her or whatever the case may be, whatever the scene may be. Just breaking things down like that, that cuts away a lot of the noise. And that show had a lot of noise before he got his hands on it.

[9:51] Steve Bebout: I think about other Jerry Zaks, Nathan Lane productions, Guys and Dolls. I think about his work on the Hello Dolly revival. Or Forum. I mean like Forum. I just moved to the city and I went to see Forum like I was a freshman in college. I saw it like three times. It was the greatest thing ever. Fucking amazing. Nathan and Jerry at their best. And you're telling audiences, you're telling everyone when you say, all right, this is a Nathan.

[10:18] Mo Brady: And this is The North Star. We now know what direction we're heading in.

[10:25] Steve Bebout: Yeah, I think that's true. The Addams Family also, and I don't feel like I'm trying to think of something else this has happened to. Like this was Michael Riedel at his most powerful, you know. But I think that when Jerry came on board, it adjusted The Addams Family in the business as well. Like the way the business perceived it. My mom or people like my mom, they don't know who directs musicals, but the people that work in musicals do. And I think when Jerry came on board to the theater community, it said, okay, this is where the show is headed. And it got some of the way there when we opened on Broadway. And it got a lot more of the way there when it went on tour.

[11:06] Mo Brady: So talk about that. Obviously, when you're opening the Broadway show, you're not thinking this is a band-aid. You're trying to make the best show.

[11:14] Steve Bebout: Yeah, it's true. I'm going to be probably not quite correct about this timeline, but it's generally correct. I think Jerry started working on the show, and it had about a month left in its run in Chicago, give or take. And then it closed, went on hiatus for a few weeks. And then we had about three or four weeks in the room, and then two or three weeks of tech, something like that. So even if I'm off, it's still just four months to opening. That's not a lot of time to bring in a new director and to dive into the script and really try to work on that, because that was the other thing Jerry was doing. We talked a lot about the performances, but he's great with story and great with comedy on the page and great with character on the page.

And he spent a ton of time. We met for hours upon hours with Rick and Marshall and Andrew and the whole team. We just sat around and worked on the script. They wrote a brand new opening number, which is a big deal for a show to switch something like that, but a much better opening number, I thought.

[12:24] Mo Brady: One of the things that Rick told me was that the story of the family just got clearer between Chicago and Broadway. That was maybe the biggest shift is that it became more of a family story. Would you agree with that?

[12:38] Steve Bebout: Absolutely. You remember that scene where the Beinecke's first get to the house and they meet each family member? That scene didn't really exist in that way before in Chicago. That feels like a classic sitcom kind of move where you meet this crazy, wacky family all together. I remember that staging of that scene being very specific because Jerry is so clear with his stage picture.

[13:04] Mo Brady: Oh, yeah. I quote Jerry all the time because he's brilliant. But he said, you know, 90% of his job is making sure that everybody in the theater is looking at the same thing. And he's brilliant at that. That show has a lot of principles and they were all on stage for that. When you have that many people on stage and they're dressed like that, it takes a lot to make sure that the focus is in the right place. And yeah, you're absolutely right and highly specific.

[13:27] Steve Bebout: So let's jump more towards the tour then. Between opening on Broadway and rehearsals for the tour beginning, what are the conversations about how to further refine this piece into what it's supposed to be?

[13:50] Steve Bebout: I got to watch it all and I feel very fortunate. But those people have been through the ringer. Jerry, for sure, a little bit. But those writers, they've been working on that show for so long and had so many voices in their ears. And finally, it's open on Broadway. And look, it was a success. It made some good money. And to have to go back to the mines and start working that again takes a lot. And that was all Stuart Okun. I mean, that guy, I just have such respect. He just had this dogged pursuit of making that show work. And he demanded it from the rest of the team that we all find a way to make it better for the tour. I mean, it's rare. I've not worked on anything where there's that much change on a tour. I would say that the plot of the show changed.

[14:42] Steve Bebout: Rick would agree with you. The story stayed the same and the plot changed.

[14:47] Steve Bebout: Exactly. And the plot is just, it's different. The idea of Wednesday saying, I'm going to marry this kid, don't tell mom. Don't tell mom is the springboard for the entire show at that point. Because then that becomes a brand new theme of the show. Morticia gets a new song about telling secrets and how she and Gomez would never have a secret. It put a wedge between Morticia and Gomez that Gomez had to solve by the end of the play. And we were trying to find that all the way up till opening night on Broadway. They never had a conflict, a real true conflict. And when we got to the tour, they had a real conflict that had a beginning and a middle and an end that made their story premium. I mean, and that's who you want to see.

The Lucas and Wednesday's story was always interesting, but they're going to be the secondary characters. We want to see Morticia and Gomez have a journey that they can go through. And that's what the tour gave them. I think about it. I don't think about it as much anymore, but I thought about it all the time. It's just like, I would just love to close my eyes and see what would have happened on Broadway with that script. And I like to imagine Nathan Lane in those situations, like how he would have played lying to his wife. I mean, I got to, you know, Doug Sills did it on the tour. He was amazing, but watching Nathan get to do that, I think would have been really cool. And I wonder how that show would have gone over.

I don't know if it would have been a huge hit. It was a better play. It was a better story, a better plot for the audience to sink their teeth into on the tour. And then that script was the one that then went to Brazil and Australia and Argentina and all the other places that it went. It's the script that's licensed now and done everywhere. That show got like four new numbers. I think it doesn't resemble the Broadway cast album. There's certainly some carryover, but it was a big, big change.

[16:39] Steve Bebout: I told Rick, I think it ends in a wedding. I feel like somebody told me that, but I've never heard any of the new music.

[16:46] Steve Bebout: There's that beautiful move toward the darkness. I mean, it's a gorgeous, gorgeous tune that really captures the darkness and the beauty of what Charles Addams comics did. And it fits Andrew Lippa and it's beautiful. But as an ending to a musical comedy, there was something always missing. And that curtain call, just turning it into the wedding felt really cool. It really lifted the end of the show and sent people away with a different sort of feeling.

[17:15] Mo Brady: How'd they miss that the first time? Was it the too many voices in the ear? Was it not realizing how important comedy is to the...

[17:24] Steve Bebout: I mean, you know, the last moment of that show on Broadway was a huge laugh. It was Fester and the moon. Remember that when the capsule hits it and the moon turns into Fester? Huge laugh, the classic Charles Addams line. So it did end on a laugh. I don't know why we didn't see... I think some people did see it. I don't remember it being like, we got to get a big comic ending. I don't think anyone felt that. I think people really enjoyed the beauty of that song and the message of it and Lurch singing that low note. It was just so weird and wonderful. We had other problems to fix and fixing the opening number is more important than probably fixing the curtain call. You know what I mean? But I'm not sure why we didn't... no one saw that.

[18:11] Steve Bebout: Like you and others have said, it really feels like the worst of both worlds that you had both the time crunch between closing in Chicago and opening on Broadway. And the word about town was that this was not a good show. There were claws sharpened.

[18:29] Mo Brady: Yeah, sure. And then the audience response, you know, you got Nathan Lane and B.B. Neuwirth and Cara Lee and Kevin and Terry Mann and Nathan together that the response was good. If you went into that theater and watched the show, you know, when the show was hot and cooking, you would have never known that show was being talked about poorly in any circle because the audience, they were laughing. You know, they were really laughing. When we got to the tour, they laughed more. We took some of those dark and beautiful moments that everyone thought were important and they still existed, but they existed for the right amount of time. It's like we can have some dark and beautiful for 30 seconds and then let's laugh some more.

It just gave the show a bigger motor. There weren't a lot of plot laughs in the Broadway production. Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this person is saying this to this person right now because I, the audience member, am aware that in the story, this guy said this, you know, all that sort of stuff that you expect in a musical comedy didn't exist so much on Broadway originally. But then once you add in that layer of Wednesday self saying, don't tell mom and Gomez is lying, then the audience has a secret that they're sitting there with. And it's wonderful because we get to watch Gomez deal with Morticia and we know he's lying. And that just gives the show a comedic motor.

[19:47] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Steve Bebout for sharing his stories with us today. The Ensemblist was produced today by Kirsten Anderson, Jackson Klein, and me, Mo Brady. Please rate and review The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. Our Patreon members have on-demand access to our archive, including full conversations with our guests and early access to episodes. You can support us for between $5 and $20 a month at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Thanks for listening. Until next time.