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[0:01] Aaron Albano: I'll tell you what's a sin.

[0:03] Mo Brady: You're listening to Tony Telecasts from The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out.

[0:09] Aaron Albano: I'm Aaron Albano.

[0:10] Mo Brady: And I'm Mo Brady.

[0:12] Aaron Albano: Up against the wall, waiting for some boy to say, how about a dance? Never take a chance on it, never even once.

[0:21] Mo Brady: Welcome listeners to our mini-series about the Tonys, looking into the drama behind the drama of a theater season in Broadway history.

[0:28] Aaron Albano: In each podcast episode, we watch a telecast of a previous Tony Awards. Not only the performances, but the opening and speeches to see how it reflects the season as a whole.

[0:38] Mo Brady: So let's dive in and talk about the 1984 Tony Awards.

[0:42] Aaron Albano: The 38th Annual Tony Awards was hosted by Julie Andrews and Robert Preston on June 3, 1984. Presented at the Gershwin Theater, current home of the long-running Wicked, the show featured three medleys dedicated to composers, John Kander and Fred Ebb, Jerry Herman, and Stephen Sondheim.

[1:02] Mo Brady: Heading into the ceremony, two musicals were virtually tied for the most nominations, Sunday in the Park with George with 10 nominations and La Cage aux Folles with 9. Baby and The Tap Dance Kid followed behind with 7 nominations each.

[1:16] Aaron Albano: This season, there were no musicals nominated for Best Revival. But aside from the telecast itself, what was happening in 1984, Aaron?

[1:24] Mo Brady: The 1983-84 Broadway season spanned a time with many notable events. Marking the final year of President Ronald Reagan's first term, 1984 found itself a leap year, an election year, and a Summer Olympics year, which the U.S. hosted in Los Angeles, California. In an internationally petty move, our long-time Cold War rivals, the Soviet Union, boycotted those games.

[1:47] Aaron Albano: Fun fact. This season also saw the creation of the federal holiday to commemorate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., with Reagan having signed its originating bill the previous November.

[1:57] Mo Brady: This year would also see the founding of Canada's famed entertainment company Cirque du Soleil. In New York, one of the largest events to take place, and it's mentioned in the telecast, is that A Chorus Line makes history as the longest-running musical on Broadway. After eight years and 3,389 performances, A Chorus Line broke the record on September 29, 1983.

[2:19] Aaron Albano: It would continue to hold that record until 1997, when it was overtaken by Cats. Today, it holds the number seven spot on the list of longest-running Broadway musicals, surpassed only by Phantom, The Chicago Revival, The Lion King, the original production of Cats, Wicked, and the original production of Les Miserables.

[2:41] Mo Brady: And you can be a whiz the way your mama was! Let's pour one out for the non-nominated musicals, and there were a lot of them.

[2:49] Aaron Albano: A lot of them. This season, there were nine non-nominated musicals, and what I think is interesting is how they clearly fit into two categories.

[2:59] Mo Brady: If you remember last week, 1999, so many of the musicals that weren't nominated for Best Musical were still nominated for a lot of awards.

[3:08] Aaron Albano: Yes.

[3:09] Mo Brady: This season, we really see a clear distinction between the shows that were up for Best Musical and other things, and the shows that were up for nothing. There was definitely a big shutout between the favorites of the season.

[3:22] Aaron Albano: The five non-nominated new musicals were Amen Corner at the Nederlander Theater, 28 performances. Marilyn, 17 performances at the Minskoff Theater.

[3:34] Mo Brady: Marilyn! Now that we've done Bombshell, you really want to see it. Scott Bakula played Joe DiMaggio in this.

[3:41] Aaron Albano: Oh!

[3:42] Mo Brady: Yeah. Who I remember from Romance Romance was killing it up there when we saw that performance.

[3:47] Aaron Albano: Yes.

[3:48] Mo Brady: A 29-member ensemble, including Mary Testa, so maybe we have to talk to Ms. Testa about that.

[3:54] Aaron Albano: All right, so the third was Doonesbury. 104 performances at the Biltmore, the longest-running non-nominated musical.

[4:03] Mo Brady: But featured Gary Beach, Mark Lynn Baker, and Kate Burton in the cast.

[4:07] Aaron Albano: Oh, wow!

[4:08] Mo Brady: Yeah. Okay. Star-studded. Would this have been before Perfect Strangers?

[4:13] Aaron Albano: Yes, it would have, right?

[4:14] Mo Brady: It feels like just before.

[4:16] Aaron Albano: You wouldn't do Doonesbury if you were on Perfect Strangers.

[4:19] Mo Brady: Yeah, that's fair. This is a reference for absolutely no one under the age of 30.

[4:24] Aaron Albano: Which is our brand, really.

[4:26] Mo Brady: Yes, exactly. Awake and Sing! played 61 performances at Circle in the Square. Again, no ensemble. Featured Dick LaTessa and Frances McDormand in the cast.

[4:38] Aaron Albano: And then The Human Comedy played only 13 performances at the Royale, the shortest run of the season.

[4:45] Mo Brady: What was the Royale?

[4:46] Aaron Albano: The Royale was The Jacobs.

[4:47] Mo Brady: Got it. Cool. And featured Olga Merediz from the original company of In the Heights, Abuela, as the role of Mexican woman.

[4:57] Aaron Albano: Cool. So reading that credit made me excited and disappointed all in one fell swoop.

[5:03] Mo Brady: Correct. That feels accurate for that. What I thought was really interesting, actually, was not the new musicals, but the revivals. We didn't have any revivals nominated for Best Revival, which this season is just called Best Revival.

[5:17] Aaron Albano: But we did have four, and all four of them had a famous person repeating a role they had played either on Broadway or in a movie.

[5:28] Mo Brady: So Zorba revival was led by Anthony Quinn in his movie role. Mame revival with Angela Lansbury in the lead. Oliver, led by Ron Moody, who played Fagin both in the movie and in this revival. And The Wiz with Stephanie Mills.

[5:44] Aaron Albano: And Ron Moody is the only one that really got a Tony nod for his —

[5:48] Mo Brady: Well, Anthony Quinn's co-star Lila Kudrow wins the Tony for Best Featured Actor.

[5:55] Aaron Albano: Oh, yes, because she was in the movie as well.

[5:57] Mo Brady: Yes, exactly. So this interesting phenomenon of we're going to do revivals, but we're only going to do them with famous people in the leads. What's secretly great about that, of course, is that it also gives ensemble people roles.

[6:10] Aaron Albano: So in the Zorba revival, we had Rob Marshall in the ensemble.

[6:14] Mo Brady: Nice. In The Wiz revival, we had Jasmine Guy in the ensemble.

[6:19] Aaron Albano: Oh, wow. And this isn't an ensemble role, but in the Oliver revival, we had Patti LuPone as Nancy, which is never a bad thing.

[6:27] Mo Brady: Which I would pay to hear that as long as he meets me.

[6:29] Aaron Albano: Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine Patti LuPone singing as long as you — I can imagine it.

[6:34] Mo Brady: And it sounds fantastic in my head.

[6:36] Aaron Albano: Agreed. Maybe we need to call Jonathan Hoover to just do a rendition.

[6:39] Mo Brady: But it's actually interesting because in today's format of the Tonys, these would get a lot more TV time and advertising time. They got none. None of those revivals had performances.

[6:54] Aaron Albano: Because Angela Lansbury is 100% a favorite of the Tonys and a favorite of Broadway. And even in her numbers, they weren't like, hey, Angela, come and do The Number from Mame. We can also advertise the show while —

[7:08] Mo Brady: The Mame revival was a very limited run. It ran only 41 performances at the Gershwin.

[7:15] Aaron Albano: Oh, fair. Yeah.

[7:16] Mo Brady: The Oliver revival was 17 performances. The Wiz revival was 13. So part of me, I wish I knew more, but it makes me wonder if these were like the tail end of a tour.

[7:26] Aaron Albano: Oh, interesting.

[7:27] Mo Brady: That they just sort of were touring the country and a Broadway theater was the last stop on their tour. Or they were like limited engagements where it was like, hey, we got a space, come and see a show.

[7:38] Aaron Albano: Because Zorba, according to these numbers, Zorba feels really like the only sizable run of these four revivals.

[7:46] Mo Brady: Yeah, that ran past the end of the season. It felt like a production in and of its own right versus these other runs that seemed so short they could only be part of something bigger.

[7:55] Aaron Albano: Something bigger. Yeah, that's fair.

[8:02] Mo Brady: So, Aaron, this was one of your choices for watching the Tonys.

[8:17] Aaron Albano: Yes, Mo. How can I help you?

[8:19] Mo Brady: Why did you choose it?

[8:20] Aaron Albano: This was, in fact, my first choice. I've really enjoyed these older ceremonies because they feel so different from what I know. The structure is different.

[8:28] Mo Brady: It's not only like, oh, look at that performance, right? Something you would see on YouTube, but just like the way the evening is laid out is so different from what I think of as the Tony Awards.

[8:39] Aaron Albano: As we've delved into them, I've been really interested in how there's a bigger focus on the art and not necessarily like hoity-toity musicals. But they're very much talking about the art form of musical theater versus what I consider the Tony Awards to be now, which is a series of awards with live commercials in between.

[8:58] Mo Brady: I would agree with that. Again, that feeling of looking into an insider party rather than a commercial.

[9:03] Aaron Albano: I've also been drawn to these ceremonies in which different kinds of shows are pitted against each other in the fight for best musical. So in this year, 1984, we have a Sondheim show, a Jerry Herman show, a Black Helm show, and a little pop rock musical show with a Kander and Ebb show, which isn't nominated, but we see a lot of it.

[9:24] Mo Brady: So it does feel like five very different kinds of musicals that we get to see, and I'm interested in how the awards shake down what was considered valuable in 1984, a Sondheim musical or a Jerry Herman musical. So that's why I wanted to pick this guy.

[9:40] Aaron Albano: No, that's awesome.

[9:41] Mo Brady: Or girl. I'm not going to gender the 1984 Tony Awards.

[9:44] Aaron Albano: I agree. And what's really cool is that as we delve back into the older telecasts, what's kind of great about watching the old telecasts is that there is this sort of sense of they're still figuring it out. There's more variety and there's more sort of freedom in the way they do each telecast from year to year because they haven't figured out the tried and true system yet.

[10:08] Mo Brady: We have these themes now, right? Like we're getting to see these themes, whether it be the composer theme or...

[10:15] Aaron Albano: The critic theme.

[10:16] Mo Brady: The imperial medley.

[10:18] Aaron Albano: Yeah, especially watching this one. We just leaned in and centered around the composers.

[10:24] Mo Brady: Will you talk about these hosts? They're two very, very little known actors in the theatre realm.

[10:31] Aaron Albano: So we had Robert Preston, who's, I mean, without getting too deep, we had his big memorial in 1987, which was very striking.

[10:46] Moe Brady: It was like, oh three years ago. He was hosting. Yeah, it would be like if Neil Patrick Harris passed away, right?

[10:52] Aaron Albano: Like yeah, we would celebrate him in the awards in some way.

[11:00] Moe Brady: Yeah, cuz also it would be it would probably be very jarring to the community because just three years ago we saw him on our screens.

[11:03] Aaron Albano: Yeah, we had Robert Preston and we had Dame Julie Andrews.

[11:09] Moe Brady: Julie Andrews, man, just put those British Queens up there. Lady Whistledown herself.

[11:16] Aaron Albano: Julie Andrews, I wouldn't say they were like particularly doing a lot because there were a lot of people doing a lot.

[11:22] Moe Brady: Yes, what was cool is I feel like they drove the night but also got to perform a lot.

[11:29] Aaron Albano: Yeah, we're gonna get to the performances because a lot of people performed a lot a lot.

[11:35] Moe Brady: But yeah, but I was like Robert Preston and Julie Andrews were in the show and in the show the whole time, which was kind of great. I loved it. Actually, I mean, I don't mind Robert Preston Julie Andrews.

[11:42] Aaron Albano: Mm-hmm.

[11:43] Moe Brady: I thought they were good hosts.

[11:45] Aaron Albano: The theme of the night, yes, they were very clear speaking of a theme the 1984 Tony Awards has won the composer it is about the composers. It's the songs, right?

[11:53] Moe Brady: They really let us know that everything else about a musical is shit.

[11:57] Aaron Albano: Wait a 100% did especially Julie damn, man.

[12:01] Moe Brady: Julie said the audience's remember the songs it isn't fair. That was her first mention of it. Is it fair?

[12:07] Aaron Albano: She says the American musical theater is truly a collaborative art form. But what is it? Do you remember the songs?

[12:13] Moe Brady: I guess it isn't fair. But there it is.

[12:16] Aaron Albano: What's funny about that quote to me is like the teleprompter could not have said it isn't fair twice.

[12:22] Moe Brady: Like she must have like looped around when she was reading off of the teleprompter.

[12:27] Aaron Albano: But I was like that is a statement to say twice. Ms. Andrews.

[12:31] Moe Brady: I love it when like Dame Julie Andrews the Maria von Trapp of our generation gets a little shady.

[12:37] Aaron Albano: It's wonderful.

[12:38] Moe Brady: Then Robert Preston chimes in says so this evening would like to pay attention to the work of four artists who can be heard on Broadway right this minute.

[12:46] Aaron Albano: We'll see how they got started and remind ourselves of the body of work that they've created.

[12:51] Moe Brady: Body of work, we're getting like a history lesson.

[12:54] Aaron Albano: We are here to teach and you know what if it means I get more Leslie Uggams on my screen. We're good.

[13:01] Moe Brady: I want Leslie Uggams in every Tony Awards. This is my new I want Leslie Uggams in the 2021 Tony Awards.

[13:06] Aaron Albano: Let's be I was gonna campaign for a best ensemble Tony Award but now I actually feel like we should just campaign for Leslie Uggams to appear in every time.

[13:12] Moe Brady: Leslie Uggams lifetime performance Tony like yes, let's go.

[13:17] Aaron Albano: So we're gonna talk about all of those medleys that are mentioned in the second part of our 1984 discussion just because they're so sizable.

[13:24] Moe Brady: Yes, and because the nominated performances were actually integrated into the medleys or at least most of them were but it's easier to just sort of talk about all the performances as a whole.

[13:31] Aaron Albano: Yes on Friday. So join us on Friday. Aha.

[13:36] Moe Brady: Speaking of shade, I did love the considerable shade of how La Cage aux Folles was like the obvious industry favorite.

[13:43] Aaron Albano: Oh my god.

[13:44] Moe Brady: Six wins compared with two for both Sunday in the Park with George and The Tap Dance Kid and none for Baby.

[13:51] Aaron Albano: But this is like I feel like it's just like a bunch of white cis gay men like congratulating themselves on awards.

[13:57] Moe Brady: That is so my 2021 view because obviously La Cage was a breakout musical about like queer acceptance.

[14:03] Aaron Albano: Yes, I mean and it was and it was dropped right in the middle of the AIDS epidemic.

[14:09] Moe Brady: So I get it, but you're right. There is an aspect where the celebration of the content aside. There was this almost this like going out of its way to like kick someone while he was down, like I don't know what it was.

[14:20] Aaron Albano: Yes, it was Jerry Herman's speech. Jerry Herman in his acceptance speech for best score for La Cage says this award forever shatters a myth about the musical theater.

[14:30] Moe Brady: There has been a rumor going around for a couple of years that the simple hummable show tune is no longer welcome on Broadway.

[14:36] Aaron Albano: Well, it's alive and well at the palace. I can only imagine people in the audience and at home just jaw drop.

[14:43] Moe Brady: It feels personal, right? The composer of Hello Dolly, this is the composer of Mame, right?

[14:49] Aaron Albano: This is we need a little Christmas and put on your Sunday clothes.

[14:54] Moe Brady: Yeah, and he's saying I am NOT obsolete.

[14:57] Aaron Albano: I mean and we just came from in I think 1981 the dismal fall of Merrily We Roll Along so like bros already down man.

[15:05] Moe Brady: Like we've all watched a big documentary about how it was literally the best worst thing that ever happened.

[15:11] Aaron Albano: Icarus has fallen from the Sun and and and so just three years after that where he's just trying to get up off the ground again in arguably one of the best if not the best work Sondheim has ever done.

[15:22] Moe Brady: Jerry Herman holding your spinning statue is gonna like come for Stephen Sondheim like this from 2021.

[15:29] Aaron Albano: It feels super icky. It feels really like petty like I'm just like dude you won.

[15:35] Moe Brady: It's John Napier level.

[15:37] Aaron Albano: I mean nothing can be that level but like it's pretty bad.

[15:41] Moe Brady: The whole thing feels to me like there's like this boys club that's giving each other awards and that if you aren't part of that club then you were left out which again like we've seen before like we could argue that it happened at Hamilton.

[15:52] Aaron Albano: We can argue it happened like during Kinky Boots time.

[15:55] Moe Brady: Oh like the producers was a hundred percent yeah, people congratulating each other with Tony Awards, and I think there's an aspect where most of the acceptances were very gracious and just talked about how wonderful it was being in the room where La Cage was made and how wonderful a place it was to work all of these things where Jerry Herman literally went out of his way to like come for his competitor, which I was like, dude, you just got a full medley praising your accomplishment. So back off, dude.

[16:30] Aaron Albano: Oh.

[16:31] Moe Brady: How did we do the plays this year Aaron did we do the plays?

[16:35] Aaron Albano: We did not.

[16:37] Moe Brady: First Tony Award ceremony we've watched where they did not even try they didn't do anything.

[16:43] Aaron Albano: I think Robert Guillaume comes out and is like based on this presentation, you would think that Broadway is made up of all musicals, but no no no, there are also plays and then we didn't do anything.

[16:56] Moe Brady: Nope, I was just like you didn't make your case very well, sir.

[16:59] Aaron Albano: Robert what I did think was super interesting and was about a play was when Dustin Hoffman comes out to present the award for Best Play.

[17:06] Moe Brady: Yeah.

[17:07] Aaron Albano: He gets a standing ovation.

[17:09] Moe Brady: Uh-huh.

[17:10] Aaron Albano: Watching him I was like, why is this an often getting a standing ovation right now?

[17:14] Moe Brady: I was as well as I'm want to do did a little research do it.

[17:18] Aaron Albano: He was currently playing Willie Lohman in a revival of Death of a Salesman at the Broadhurst but that show was not nominated for any Tony Awards.

[17:27] Moe Brady: That's why then of course did a little bit more research in the New York Times on May 10th there's an article by Frank Rich specifically about what happened and why there are no Tony Awards for this.

[17:39] Aaron Albano: I mean, it's a Frank Rich up. So it's like an opinion piece.

[17:42] Moe Brady: Yeah, it's done well, so what does he think happened?

[17:45] Aaron Albano: This is the first paragraph.

[17:47] Moe Brady: So what happened? That's the question theater goers are asking this week as they contemplate a roster of Tony Award nominations that does not include Dustin Hoffman and John Malkovich of Death of a Salesman.

[18:01] Aaron Albano: Here with four prominent theories along with arguments to knock each theory.

[18:06] Moe Brady: Actually a New York Times article that like goes through the T so he goes through arguments but it's interesting that like not knowing a thing about it just the way the audience responds to this person coming on was like he stops the show what's happening.

[18:19] Aaron Albano: Yeah, very strange energy listeners if you want to read up on it. It is from May 10th, 1984 have at it, you know who does get an award?

[18:30] Moe Brady: Yes, I do.

[18:31] Aaron Albano: But who?

[18:32] Moe Brady: Chita Rivera?

[18:34] Aaron Albano: No, I love seeing these people get their first awards, right?

[18:39] Moe Brady: Yes. Oh my gosh. That's the coolest part Chita Rivera 22 years after her first Tony Award nomination wins for The Rink talk about a hometown hero.

[18:50] Aaron Albano: Yeah, when they're announcing the nominees for Best Actress in a Musical she gets cheers when they announce her name there's a standing ovation as she walks to the stage. Liza Minnelli is very excited she jumps out of her seat.

[19:02] Moe Brady: Literally. It is a joy to watch her and from where I sit I'm like, oh, yeah Chita Rivera was always a Tony Award winner. Of course, she's a Tony Award winner. She's fucking Chita Rivera, but then in the moment before she was not a Tony Award winner.

[19:15] Aaron Albano: She was such a gift to our art form and such a gift to our community and like this was the moment where it all coalesced and she gives she gives a good speech, too.

[19:25] Moe Brady: She's very gracious. She's got a good joke. Like it is it is a good Tony Award speech.

[19:34] Aaron Albano: Thanks for joining us for this first half of our discussion of the 1984 Tony telecast.

[19:41] Moe Brady: Join us on Friday where we will discuss the performances by the nominated musicals and give our unsanctioned Yelp review.

[19:49] Aaron Albano: The Ensemblist was produced today by me Moe Brady and by me Aaron Albano.

[19:55] Moe Brady: Special thanks to Wassup Sammy for the background research on this week's Tony season.

[20:01] Aaron Albano: Please rate and review The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or BPN FM the home of Broadway Podcast Network.

[20:10] Moe Brady: Our Patreon members have on-demand access to our archive including full conversations with our guests and early access to episodes.

[20:18] Aaron Albano: You can support us for between 5 and 20 dollars a month at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist.

[20:25] Moe Brady: Thanks for listening until next time.