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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady. This month, we are collaborating with Broadway performer Shaye B. Hopkins and her new creation, Podcast Portraits. In this new podcast, Hopkins invites guests to share some of life's hairy and hilarious moments and thoughtfully reflect on how those experiences shaped who they are today. On this episode, Shaye speaks to André Jordan, her castmate from Diana on Broadway, about his audition, first preview, and tackling creativity during the pandemic. Here's their conversation.

[1:10] Shaye B. Hopkins: You were there, you did perform in front of audiences, you played Colin. And ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you, when I say that André, you're amazing.

[1:22] André Jordan: You're so sweet to me, Shaye. You cast me out so hard. The first day I saw you, I think I remember a fangirl, and I was like, just so you know, I think you're really great. Because you can sing, you can act, you're so funny. Your attention to detail. You don't have a dance or track per se in the show, but boy, you can dance like I've seen. I've seen it all.

[1:45] Shaye B. Hopkins: Thank you. Thank you. This feels, this role, particularly in the show, really feels like I'm pushing myself on all parts. Like it really feels like, okay, I'm having to do this accent for this, which was like something I never really expected to ever have to do, really, especially like on my Broadway role. So it's like, I'm really having to focus on that on my acting. This singing is, this whole thing is completely sung through. We sing the entirety of it. And then the dance numbers that I do move in are like, they're difficult. They're hard. They push me.

[2:12] André Jordan: Yeah, Kelly has, she's believed in everybody in this show, and everybody has to dance. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing.

[2:19] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah. But I, so I feel, I feel like so great about it. And that's what I was really excited about doing the show. I'm excited for like, you know, things have happened and we've changed a lot. I do like the show now that I have for myself. Kind of the way that my character's storyline is a little bit more like fleshed out. I feel like I have a more of like an arc that feels more realized. It feels more full this time. But yeah, I love, I love that I get to play this role. I love that I got offered it. Like I was not expecting it. I thought they were going to offer me a swing track because I had read for every single guy.

[2:51] André Jordan: Did you?

[2:53] Shaye B. Hopkins: For like weeks. Yeah.

[2:54] André Jordan: Wow.

[2:55] Shaye B. Hopkins: And then I did the fall workshop and I read, and I read for everybody and then I didn't get it. And then they called me back in like a week later to come back in again. And then I sang for like two boys, danced all that and then didn't hear. And then when I came back for like the finals, I was doing like a bunch of them. But then like, then really when I think on it, I didn't think on it at the time. Like I just, in my mind, I was just like, you know, if you're lucky enough, you'll be a swing. Like that was just where I was at. And then like once it got to the finals, like the last two or three days was just Colin and I was like, Oh, and then that last, last day was like, no, we just need you to do the common size.

[3:30] Shaye B. Hopkins: Well, I mean, okay. It, that sounds to me like they really wanted you to be a part of the show. It just took time to see where you fit.

[3:35] André Jordan: Exactly. You know, when they put those puzzle pieces together, that is the hardest part. It's going, how do we put these people together and which group of people will fit best, which is great, but also so unfortunate because you could have someone who's absolutely amazing, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't fit.

[3:48] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah. Um, but they really wanted you cause you kept coming back.

[3:53] André Jordan: I just like, you know what? That whole audition was, was, that was a long time. It was a long time and it was probably the longest audition that I had or that I went through. Um, but like I never felt like after I went in that, like I did a bad job ever. Like I always felt like I did my best and I always felt that they like, okay, they really liked me. So it really, even though it took a long time and even though I didn't hear that yes from them until like a long time after the first time I went in, I always did feel like, okay, like I'm even, I got to a point where I was like, okay, we'll open and like, I'll be the first one that they call to replace because like, you know, they had done a lawyer and like I knew that the workshop had happened.

So like in my mind I was like, okay, well I think they're, everyone's in it. Like they're, they're just keeping me around for like files for later. Like that was really my mind. It was like, they've done it, they've got it, but they really like me. So like I'm going to be the, I'm going to be the first pick as soon as someone kicks out of this thing. But um, it was one better than that.

[4:45] Shaye B. Hopkins: And you are Colin, you were in the original.

[4:47] André Jordan: You can't take it away from me. It's on the album. It's recorded. The checks are cleared.

[4:54] Shaye B. Hopkins: It's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[4:56] André Jordan: So congratulations again, because you were fantastic.

[5:01] Shaye B. Hopkins: Thank you. Thank you. Gosh, if it really has been a long time.

[5:03] André Jordan: When I think about the.

[5:05] Shaye B. Hopkins: It also went live.

[5:06] André Jordan: Yeah. Oh yeah. 15, I moved here in June 23rd, 2005.

[5:11] Shaye B. Hopkins: And I will never forget that first preview in the bowels, that little glisten in your eyes. I could see those 15 years of hard work, persistence, focus, perseverance in that one little glimmer in your eyes, because what an achievement.

[5:29] André Jordan: I just like, you go back and forth, right? Like you think like, hey, maybe it's, it's not gonna happen for me now. Maybe it'll happen when I'm like 40, when I, you just keep putting it back later. It gets like, okay, then you think, you know, I've got friends who are incredibly talented. They work all the time regionally. They're working all the time in their 40s, 50s, but have never been on Broadway.

[5:47] Shaye B. Hopkins: Have they worked consistently? Do they work? Absolutely. Are they there in the trenches? The same thing, but like, it just, just didn't happen. So I was just like, you get to these moments where you resign yourself to like, hey, maybe it's, this isn't really going to be for me. And that's okay. Like, it was okay because like I, you know, I've been very fortunate enough to, to have been working, to like, have gotten jobs and have met great people and to still have been in this business. Like I, you know, you know, everyone that's on these stages are all in this group together. We all came up together. Um, but to everything had just felt right when it happened. It was like, ah, duh. Like, of course, like, why did you think it was going to happen anytime sooner? Like you should have just clocked 2020 and like, it all, that makes more sense. But you never know. You also never know.

[6:27] André Jordan: Yeah, it's exactly. It's one of those, it's like, Dorothy, I, if I'd have told you how to get home, you wouldn't have believed me.

[6:31] Shaye B. Hopkins: Exactly. And I wouldn't have believed I doesn't matter. I wouldn't have worked. I had to believe for myself. And not taking anything away from anyone who works on Broadway, because it is an achievement that we should all be very proud of. But also everyone who isn't on Broadway and who is doing regional work and on tours are also really fucking talented. There's so many talented people who I see at those auditions all the time.

[6:53] André Jordan: Yeah. And you know them that they're good and you know that they work. So it's like at the end of the day, if we're working, we're doing what we want to do. We're doing our theater and we're making people happy anywhere in the world. Like we're very fortunate to do that. And it also comes back to that puzzle. It's like, oh, maybe they just didn't fit that piece of the puzzle just yet. Like you and I 15 years later, you know, we got to get away.

[7:17] Shaye B. Hopkins: Tell you that school is a puzzle. It's a trap. They don't tell you that, but they should. They should tell kids like do your best, but also don't get yourself all hung up about it because like there's so many things that are out of your control. So like it's not. And also live your life. When you're a teenager and or you're a kid, it's, it's hard not to believe that life still goes on.

[7:37] André Jordan: Especially for artists, especially for actors. There's this like, there's this intoxicating thing of like being young and like.

[7:44] André Jordan: And I was feeling very lost. I don't have a lot of hobbies, or I didn't before quarantine. My life was just getting up, going to auditions, going to work, going to bed. I didn't really leave time for anything else for myself. And if there was anything that was there before, it was all pushed to the back. And I just wanted to do something. And then a friend of mine sent me a TikTok maybe of this woman reading this really funny little book, and she couldn't get through it and all this stuff. And he was like, you should do this. And I was like, no, I should do this. So I came up with the idea. I was like, oh, you know what? I'll get really funny adult children's books. At this time, when I was thinking of it, people were making content for themselves, right?

People were doing live shows, drag queens doing live shows. We had to find means because everything was closed. Exactly. Like any way to make money. So I was like, oh, that's actually not a bad idea. I can do this weekly show. It'll be really fun. I'm a big cannabis user here. So I was like, oh, I'll smoke. I'll get really stoned. And I can read together with people, and it can be a thing, and that will be really fun. And I had that idea, and it was in my brain. And I was like, OK, this is actually a really good idea. I should do this. And then literally a week later, we found out that we were doing the Diana workshop in June, and then I was like, OK, well, maybe I can put it off. I'll start in July.

And then the murder of George Floyd happened like two days after the week. I think it was the week that we found out. I think he died on Monday or Tuesday. And then we've had a meeting on Wednesday saying we're starting on Monday. It was back to back to back. And that whole week was a lot for me. Lots of emotions. It was just I think everyone can understand it was a lot for everybody. So everything quickly became about the fight and the revolution and calling to action like my community and my space and what can I do to help? What kind of positive thing can I put out there? And then I just had the idea. I was like, OK, what if I because, you know, originally it was going to be all about me. So like the whole meditation process that kind of went around that week was like, well, kick yourself out of this.

Like, don't make it about you. And then I was like, oh, I'll still do this, but I'll just raise money for all the black theaters that are closed. I can't work. I was like, that's perfect. Like and then that's like, you know, I'm doing this thing. It's fun. It gets everyone kind of out of what this world that we live in for a second. And all the money is being raised for its good cause. So I did that. I started that in July. And every Sunday at 4:20 on Instagram Live, I came on and I a little, you know, smoked up, played some music, told everyone about the I had a different theater each week.

[12:15] André Jordan: You did. That was going to get it. So like I would like talk about the theater on my Instagram be like this. We're going to do our money to and then just raise money. And like I did six episodes and over the six episodes, I mean, this is like my shows are on Sundays at 4:20. You know, I mean, like I was like, well, people are home, but still like people have stuff to do. And especially in July when the weather was really nice and things like that. But I was like, well, people tune in, they tune in. And I raised over a thousand dollars over that whole thing that went to different.

[12:16] Shaye B. Hopkins: That's amazing.

[12:19] André Jordan: Theaters. Yeah, it was great. And like to reach out to them and then to like I got letters back from them, like saying like, thank you. This like this really helps us like. Yeah. Like any little bit like no one's working right now, you guys like it. Yeah. So I'm very, very happy with that. I had like told myself that I was like, I'll do five episodes that it's six. And then I'm just like give myself like an idea of like, you know, is this so fun for me? Did I like this? Was this helpful? This do any good? Was it fun for you? Did you enjoy it? It was. It was. I mean, it was pretty funny. Yeah, it was fun for me because like I yeah, it was like my own little I've never done like a one manny kind of show thing like or it's like just me for that time. So like figuring out what that was, but through the lens of like just having fun was very was great. And then to know that it wasn't for me. It was for a cause. Many causes.

[13:07] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yes. Many causes. It didn't you know, it's like, yeah, just do this and what happens happens and I got great feedback. I'm going to do another season of it.

[13:17] André Jordan: That's a great idea.

[13:18] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah.

[13:19] André Jordan: That is a great idea.

[13:20] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah.

[13:22] André Jordan: I'm going to do a little Instagram handle just so people know.

[13:23] Shaye B. Hopkins: Oh, yeah.

[13:24] André Jordan: It's Manchair5.

[13:25] Shaye B. Hopkins: Manchair5.

[13:26] André Jordan: M-A-N-C-H-A-I-R-5. The number five. When this was when this kind of all first went down, my boyfriend who does drag, drag character Shimmer, we were having a conversation because someone had reached out to him about like doing like a digital drag show because everything went digital. And he was like, oh, I don't know, you know, going on or just want to do it, not do it. And I was just like, well, you know, everyone's everyone is a digital drag queen right now. Like that's the only thing that's happening right now.

[14:00] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah.

[14:01] André Jordan: So like it kind of lets that whole all that other stuff go of like, like you said, like does it have to be this way or like just put it out there. Everyone's putting it out there. It's all out there. Everyone's putting their hands into like different stuff. So that's kind of like the way I thought about the cushion. I was like, yeah, everything is happening like and it's easy. And this is this is kind of like how we're all processing and working through this kind of thing together.

[14:13] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah.

[14:14] André Jordan: And you don't have to be in a beautiful studio.

[14:15] Shaye B. Hopkins: No.

[14:16] André Jordan: You know.

[14:17] Shaye B. Hopkins: No, no one.

[14:18] André Jordan: You don't have to be.

[14:19] Shaye B. Hopkins: No one cares anymore.

[14:20] André Jordan: No one cares.

[14:21] Shaye B. Hopkins: You know, just do what you gotta do or do what you gotta do. And just, you know, we've all got a movie making happen.

[14:31] Mo Brady: Special thanks to André Jordan and Shaye B. Hopkins for sharing their stories with us today. You can download full episodes of Podcast Portraits on Apple Podcasts. The Ensemblist was produced today by Jackson Klein and me, Mo Brady. Please rate and review The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. Our Patreon members have on-demand access to our full archive, including conversations with our guests and early access to episodes. You can join Rosie Dowling, Cullen Elijah, Joey Soji, Rebecca Russell, and many, many more for between $5 and $20 a month at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Thanks for listening. Until next time.