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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady. This spring, we're collaborating with Broadway performer Shaye B. Hopkins and her new creation, Podcast Portraits. In this new podcast, Hopkins invites guests to share some of life's hairy and hilarious moments and thoughtfully reflect on how those experiences shaped who they are today. On this episode, I got the chance to talk to Shaye herself about the drive that led her to travel halfway across the world to pursue a career on Broadway, as well as to start a podcast of her own. Here's our conversation.

[0:59] Mo Brady: Hi, would you introduce yourself and tell us where you're calling from?

[1:08] Shaye Hopkins: Sure. My name is Shaye Hopkins, and I'm calling from Jersey City, Jersey, but I'm super duper close to Manhattan. I'm just across the river.

[1:19] Mo Brady: Probably seen New York from your house.

[1:20] Shaye Hopkins: Almost. I do have the Statue of Liberty. I can see her right outside my window, so that's pretty cool.

[1:25] Mo Brady: That is so cool for anyone, but also really cool for a non-American who sees the Statue of Liberty from their house when they're like a little Australian girl dreaming of living in the US.

[1:37] Shaye Hopkins: Yeah, I was very lucky. One of my good friends, Rachel Bigotin, she actually moved to the States from Australia. She was performing in Chicago on Broadway, and she was able to kind of help me navigate where I should live. Jersey City is such a great little community, and I think it's a well-kept secret, and I'm okay with that because it means that rental prices won't go up and we won't become overpopulated. I think I probably just broke that secret, but anyway, that's okay.

[2:03] Mo Brady: Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey to being a part of the Broadway community and then what you've been doing lately, which is helping to showcase the Broadway community through your own podcast, Podcast Portraits. So let's dive in. You are a performer. You were a professional performer in Australia. You had a lot of success there. Why move to the States? Why make that leap?

[2:27] Shaye Hopkins: Firstly, thank you for saying I was successful. I guess looking back, I was. My husband and I are both performers. He actually has a British passport. His parents are Welsh. So we did quite a few shows back home in Australia, and we just wanted to have a bit of a change whilst we don't have children and we have the ability to move around and have adventures together. And we were actually looking to move to the West End, but by chance the year before we had entered the green card lottery, they don't do like a big, you've won a green card announcement. It's more of a, you have proceeded to the next round type deal, but you have to check your emails and log in and all that jazz. They don't really tell you.

So I called Gareth and I said, babe, you got to check. Have we won? What's going on? It's the last day. And of course, I never thought we would have, but he did. And because we're married, we both received green cards. He was playing the lead role in We Will Rock You at the time. And I was swinging the original cast of Georgie Girl, the musical. We had three months to get all our documentation together. And on our Monday off, the one day off, we both had to fly to Sydney to have our interview at the consulate. Technically, we weren't allowed to fly into state during that day. So it was a very, very hush hush. All our documentation was approved and we had three months to get into the States to validate our green card. So we flew to Hawaii for less than 24 hours. Then we flew home because we had to finish the runs of our shows. Within two and a half months, I think we were in New York on January the 20th of 2017.

[3:58] Mo Brady: That's a wild journey. That process feels really short. Somehow you were sort of building connections with American artists while you were working in Australia?

[4:08] Shaye Hopkins: Well, I was lucky enough to be part of Rock of Ages. And I got to work with the American creative team for Rock of Ages, which Kelly Devine, who is also the choreographer of Diana, which I'm very excited to be making my Broadway debut in. So I had that connection. I knew a few people here, but not many. So to be honest, we were kind of taking a leap of faith. We moved here with two suitcases each. The amount of people we knew, I could count on one hand. And we kind of had to really start from the ground up. Our agents back in Australia did help us find an agent in the States. That was kind of the biggest thing that we really needed to help get us started. Because finding an agent over here is, it is rough. Holy moly. I didn't realize until we moved here.

[4:53] Mo Brady: Does it not feel the same way in Australia to find representation? Because you're right, it's definitely a big hill to climb as a performer if you want to make it in New York City.

[5:03] Shaye Hopkins: Yeah, I think Australia has a much smaller industry because we are a smaller nation. There are more people but less jobs to go around. And that's why I think finding representation can be difficult over here because you just have so many talented people. And it's probably more difficult to sift through them than opposed to back home in Australia.

[5:24] Mo Brady: Sure, smaller pool, but also fewer shows.

[5:27] Shaye Hopkins: Yes, fewer shows. We don't necessarily have a Broadway as such. I guess you would accumulate it to the same as what a national tour is. You know, Wicked would sit in Sydney for two years and then it would move to Melbourne for two years and then it would move to Brisbane. So we kind of do the capital city tours. So we don't have a particular place where you go that is theater driven.

[5:47] Mo Brady: Sure. You know that it's not going to be there forever, but you're there long enough that you could rent an apartment.

[5:53] Shaye Hopkins: Yeah. Well, hopefully, you know, that run goes well. Most of the time it does.

[5:58] Mo Brady: You moved to the States, three bucks, two bags, one you and one husband.

[6:02] Shaye Hopkins: Yes.

[6:03] Mo Brady: What is the beginning of that journey look like for you as a now New York performer?

[6:09] Shaye Hopkins: To be honest, I think I was, because the States is a Western culture, civilization, you know, I assumed it would be very similar to Australia and it really isn't. The vast majority of actors and performers here kind of already have knowledge of being a member of equity and being a member of a union where we do have that back home in Australia. But you don't have to be a member of equity to audition for a professional show. And that was the biggest difference that I found. I didn't really understand what an ECC was and what an EPA was. And it took me a few weeks to call around and people get back to me and search online. And luckily enough, I, my husband and I were members of equity back home. So that translated to the States. So I was able to become an equity member almost straight away, which is very, very lucky.

[7:00] Mo Brady: I didn't realize that you could sort of cross memberships like that.

[7:04] Shaye Hopkins: Yeah. So I was, I was very lucky because I didn't realize that you had to be a member of equity to be on Broadway, et cetera, et cetera. So that was a big learning curve for me. My first few auditions, it was a hit in the face because we have two dance calls in Australia and then you have callbacks. We don't wait in an audition room with hundreds of people and wait our turn and swap numbers. And so that was very eyeopening. What I love about that though, is that it brings such a sense of community amongst the arts here, which we have at home, but again, not in that way. It's a little bit more competitive because there is much less work to go around. But when you're waiting in these audition rooms, you become familiar with people.

You see them every day, sometimes three times a day, depending on how many auditions you attend. Gosh, I got so lost so many times as well trying to find Pearl Studios and Ripley Greer Studios. I linked up with a few American dancers here in the city that I was taking class with and singing at class. And I just, I went up and I was like, hi, I saw you in so-and-so's class the other day. You were fantastic. My name is Shay. Do you mind if I sit here and, you know, stretch? And I kind of just had to throw myself in the deep end, which I'm not very used to. And as an Australian, we're outgoing, but we're not super duper outgoing people. I did. I threw myself in the deep end because it was a new experience.

We had moved across the world. I just wanted to throw everything that I had at it. And at the same time, I was working three different jobs to survive, you know, and to be able to attend auditions in the daytime and make money in the mornings and in the evenings as well. So the first three years, they were rough.

[8:42] Mo Brady: Three years. That's such a heavy lift. Yeah. Looking here, looking at your resume, you know, I go, oh, well, she worked on Mark of Ages with Kelly Devine. Here it is.

[8:52] Shaye B. Hopkins: I don't like annoying people. I feel like I'm annoying people. I don't know if other people feel that way, but in the States, it's like networking is a thing, and if you're not good at it, a lot of opportunities pass you by. But I was very lucky that Nick Henkel, I took his class a few times, and we kind of bonded over. I was in Legally Blonde as well, and I got to work with Jerry for two weeks before he came back, and Kinky Boots on Broadway. So we only got to work with him for two weeks, but in an audition I took with him, he recognized me, he spoke to me, didn't book that gig, which is cool, but it was still great that they did recognize me, and then I felt more comfortable to reach out rather than just sending a Facebook message or an Instagram DM.

I don't know, I'm still trying to find my feet with that whole world of just throwing myself out there. I've got to get a little bit more confidence. Is that what people do? Do you do that? I don't know. No. I always felt like just being seen was an important step to being considered for a job.

[10:01] Mo Brady: Definitely.

[10:03] Shaye B. Hopkins: And I don't mean getting in the room, but that when you're in the room, they know who you are. When there's so many performers auditioning, just that can feel like a little win.

[10:16] Mo Brady: Yes.

[10:17] Shaye B. Hopkins: I may not be right for the job, but at least I feel like I was being considered for the part. This is the journey, right? You're meeting people through dance class, you're working with people who know people, and you're getting both that sort of network of artists who you know in the States, and also the confidence in this new community that is just bigger and different than what you had back home. So how did... Go ahead.

[10:42] Shaye B. Hopkins: I was just going to say, and I wanted to build that kind of community, and to recognize me in the room, I wanted to do it in a way that was, oh, this is a girl who keeps turning up and working hard, earning my way there, rather than being cheeky and taking shortcuts. And I always like to say, happy to be here, easy to work with. I think that's a great little phrase.

[11:01] Mo Brady: Well, I think that's part of the reason you moved to New York City, to pursue a career as a performer, is because you want to be among the best. And you don't want to be given an opportunity to be among the best, and to prove that you are one of the best through anything other than your talent, being happy to be there, and being easy to work with.

[11:21] Shaye B. Hopkins: Yeah, and I think being around the best of the best makes you work hard, and you cannot rest on your laurels, you know? It doesn't matter how talented you are. If you don't put the work in, and you don't treat everyone with respect, how everyone should be treated, then there's someone else that will.

[11:36] Mo Brady: So let's fast forward to Diana. You're given an opportunity to prove yourself, creating a new musical, being a swing on a new musical. I mean, what has been most surprising?

[11:49] Shaye B. Hopkins: Firstly, not a lot of shows originated in Australia. So this was my first American Broadway show that I'd been in the original cast. And I did not realize how choppy and changey things can get. I knew it would be, but I didn't realize the amount of changes that can happen literally minute by minute. You get handed a new song that you just finished learning before lunchtime, and after lunch you get a new version. And it's like, forget all that! Forget what we've been working on all morning. We're doing this now. And then to be a swing and add the six people that you're covering, learning all those different parts again, you know, sometimes I just want to bury my face in my hands and scream in a pillow.

But that's part of the job. It's what we signed up for. It's also what I love most is creating something from the ground up and being part of that process, not just kind of being taught this is what you do. You walk over here on count eight, you wave, you pick this tray up and you leave. Actually being able to stand there and say, well, this character feels like, you know, it would be weird to walk out that way because I just came from that way and I'm playing this character next. So maybe, you know, it would make more sense for me to go this way and pick this up instead. That was really cool to actually have a voice. And Christopher Ashley, the director of Diana, is so fantastic about people feeling comfortable enough to air those thoughts and opinions.

It's really helpful and it makes you feel validated and that you're part of the process. Even as a swing, we stepped in as swings quite a lot in this rehearsal process. And we also got to give our little two cents when we were rehearsing a brand new scene to see if things worked or not. That was really, really lovely. And my previous experience as a swing has not been as inclusive, which can be difficult. You have to use your own initiative as a swing and be well organized and make sure you kind of know what you're doing enough and also be able to handle the stress of being asked to adapt to the nuances that are developed in a show with the onstage cast. Because what is sometimes always set is not always what continues to happen as a show runs.

[13:48] Mo Brady: Sure. Shows have a life of their own. They become their own organism and things sort of...

[13:52] Shaye B. Hopkins: Evolve.

[13:53] Mo Brady: I want to ask you about your podcast. I mean, you are obviously a woman who likes to throw herself in the deep end and try creative challenges. And so a podcast is one of those things.

[14:05] Shaye B. Hopkins: That's so funny you said that because I don't consider myself that at all. But looking back, I guess I am.

[14:10] Mo Brady: Well, you're a person who has the capacity for it, even if it doesn't feel like it's the majority of your self-definition.

[14:19] Shaye B. Hopkins: That's very nice of you to say.

[14:20] Mo Brady: So why a podcast?

[14:22] Shaye B. Hopkins: You know what, Mo? So during COVID, Broadway closed down a week before we were meant to open, Diana. And we were told four weeks, everyone go home. And I was like, gosh, four weeks. What am I going to do for four weeks? Okay. And then it turned into six months. And then it turned into a year. And everything was very up in the air. I started talking to my neighbors in my community, my fellow cast members, my family, my friends, and just listening to other people's stories and complete strangers' stories as well. And their heroic acts of helping out their community and being there for others. I wanted to share those stories with people because those stories make me see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It makes me feel with hope and have faith that we will be okay. And that really being part of a community and helping others to achieve their goals or their dreams or just be able to eat this month or whatever it may be. There is so much negativity and bad things that happen in this world. I just want to put more good in there and remind people that good things do happen. And they can happen to you. They can happen to me. They can happen to everybody. But we have to be part of that process as well and give back. So Podcast Portraits was born. The reason I called it Podcast Portraits was A, it's a podcast. And B, I wanted to paint a verbal portrait of a person of who they are, where they came from and how their experiences growing up made them into the person that they are today and helped them achieve whatever they have achieved in life.

Whatever it may be, all the people that I speak to have their everyday people like you and I, but they have achieved something phenomenal and maybe also even in the face of adversity, which is really, really cool. I just want to hear more about everyday people who do cool shit because they can. And they don't come from a background where things were easy for them or handed to them on a platter. And I also just like laughing and feeling empathy and people have really funny stories. People are interesting. That's how Podcast Portraits was born. And it really was a love project to start with. But I've had such great feedback that it is going to continue now. We're going to do a weekly podcast. And if anyone has any person in particular they would like to hear from, let me know. Send me an email, throw me an Instagram DM and we'll see what we can do.

[16:48] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Shea B. Hopkins for sharing her stories with us today. Episodes of Podcast Portraits can be found on Apple Podcasts or at sheahopkins.com. The Ensemblist was produced today by Kirsten Anderson, Jackson Klein, and me, Mo Brady. Please rate and review the Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. Our Patreon members have on-demand access to our full archive, including all of our conversations with guests and early access to episodes. You can support us there for between $5 and $20 a month at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Thanks for listening. Until next time.