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[0:10] Rob Russo: Welcome to DANCIN'' Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast featuring exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast and creative team of Bob Fosse's DANCIN' on Broadway.

[0:18] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont, and we're your hosts.

[0:22] Rob Russo: We're also excited to be co-producers of DANCIN' on Broadway and thrilled to be back in the Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian for another conversation with a member of the company.

[0:30] Jamie DuMont: Yes, and joining us this week is cast member Ron Todorowski.

[0:34] Rob Russo: I said that right.

[0:34] Jamie DuMont: You said that right.

[0:36] Rob Russo: DANCIN' marks Ron's 10th Broadway show.

[0:39] Jamie DuMont: And as we'll learn in our interview, he's done all sorts of things in the dance world.

[0:43] Rob Russo: He's danced with a number of companies from Twyla Tharp to Complexions Contemporary Ballet, Cedar Lake Contemporary Ballet, Parsons Dance, a personal favorite of mine, uh, with Mia Michaels, and he's also worked as a choreographer.

[0:54] Jamie DuMont: I love getting to know these dancers and learning how many times I've seen them in other contexts, in other shows, in other dance companies.

[1:05] Rob Russo: It's, you know, we learned the other day that we saw Jacob as Chino in West Side Story, and I had never even made that connection.

[1:12] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[1:12] Rob Russo: And oh, I'm sure I saw Ron dance with Parsons because I see them every year, and I have for a long time.

[1:17] Jamie DuMont: And knowing the number of times that I saw Moving Out, I'm sure I saw him at some point in the show.

[1:24] Rob Russo: So it's just another wonderful reminder of how accomplished this company is and how varied their careers have been.

[1:31] Jamie DuMont: Yes.

[1:32] Rob Russo: And what a joy it is to get to know that and to talk to them.

[1:36] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:37] Rob Russo: So should we get to our conversation with Ron?

[1:38] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, I think we should.

[1:50] Rob Russo: Welcome to the show, Ron.

[1:51] Ron Todorowski: Thanks for joining us today.

[1:53] Ron Todorowski: Of course, thanks for having me.

[1:54] Rob Russo: Let's see, you're in your second week of performances after opening. How are you feeling today?

[1:58] Ron Todorowski: Today, right now, in this moment, I feel really good. Spring is in the air, finally.

[2:06] Jamie DuMont: Finally.

[2:06] Ron Todorowski: And, uh, yeah, it really is. Like so many other cast members agree with me when I say this. Like, it is a day-by-day, show-by-show kind of experience. Like, you can't get ahead of yourself because of the physical nature of the show.

[2:19] Ron Todorowski: So today, I'm gonna say today I feel great.

[2:21] Jamie DuMont: Good. Is that because it's a marathon? Is that because the show is just nonstop from—

[2:24] Ron Todorowski: It really is, yeah. Like Wayne Salantor, the director, said, you know, you have to be present at every moment of the show. You cannot let your guard down because we are just constantly moving.

[2:38] Ron Todorowski: If we're not on stage, we are off stage changing furiously, vigorously.

[2:44] Jamie DuMont: We have a question about that a little bit later, but I'm curious. Have you let your guard down, and have you found has something happened when you let your guard down?

[2:53] Ron Todorowski: Sure. It happens, yes. Sometimes it does. And that just doesn't mean that you can't have fun, you know, and have like little moments with people off stage, you know. But yeah, I think when you are not particularly with the physical body, you know, like if it like the changes, for instance, you know what I mean? If you like are just too relaxed or you're too, you know, you're your best sometimes.

[3:22] Ron Todorowski: It just happens, you know, in the freakish, in the most freakish accidental ways.

[3:26] Jamie DuMont: I did not know that. Have you ever heard that, Ron?

[3:28] Ron Todorowski: No, that's a really interesting insight.

[3:29] Jamie DuMont: But it makes sense the way you explain it. That when you're dancing, of course, you're so focused on it. And then the second you walk off the stage, you might think, ah, okay, now I can let my guard down a little bit, and then that's when you trip over the pail.

[3:39] Ron Todorowski: Or whatever. You just can't, um, you know, completely disappear.

[3:46] Jamie DuMont: Right.

[3:46] Ron Todorowski: You know what I mean? You have to stay like, you know, still there has to be somewhat of focus. And again, you can still have fun.

[3:52] Jamie DuMont: Of course.

[3:52] Ron Todorowski: And you know, we're definitely having fun, you know, with our—not just a cast—with our wardrobe. We have the most amazing wardrobe team and our backstage crew. They're just, they're so, so wonderful and nice.

[4:04] Jamie DuMont: Okay, so now we should ask, since we're talking about wardrobe, what is your toughest quick change?

[4:08] Ron Todorowski: My toughest quick change, my goodness, there's so many. I think my quick change coming out of "Here You Come Again" and to "Join Endeavors" is the fastest. And, uh, my dresser in that moment, Travis, is—he's, I mean, they're all amazing, you know, like he knows what he's doing. So now we have it down, but like, yeah, that's like I'm, you know, carrying my shoes because I have to go from stage right to left for my entrance. So like sometimes I'm pushing it and I have to carry my shoes over and put them on at the last minute before I enter upstage left. So I would say that's probably my quickest and hardest.

[4:41] Jamie DuMont: Are you in danger of missing a cue, or is there enough time?

[4:44] Ron Todorowski: Oh wow. Oh, yeah. Definitely. During, um, I don't think we were in previews yet, but I fully missed my America entrance, which—and I'm the first one to enter. Um, so Wayne and Corinne, our associate director, they were like, "What happened?" I was like, "I just peaced out again, there you go, checked out." I told—I was like, "I thought I had so much more time than I did." Nope, not realized in the moment I was not gonna be there.

[5:09] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, yeah.

[5:09] Ron Todorowski: Oh my gosh. Well, that speaks to though what you've already mentioned, which is how, you know, this is a marathon, and there's a whole physical, you know, routine you have to get in, but also a mental routine.

[5:19] Ron Todorowski: Absolutely. I'm wondering if you could share with us a little bit about you as a dancer, as a performer. Like, what are the things that keep you going in the show? What's your daily, weekly routine to keep you alive and safe and healthy and ready to do the show?

[5:34] Ron Todorowski: That is such a great question. I am a huge meditator. I discovered meditation over 10 years ago. And, uh, I got my yoga certification. And through that, um, I actually have hosted a couple group meditations in my, uh, apartment here in New York. I'm thinking about starting it back up now that we're settled into the show. And for me, meditation is so essential and, uh, to start the day because it's like plugging in your phone. You know what I mean? It's literally like getting yourself into that centered place where you can be spacious to not—it just makes you not as reactionary to life, which can be really challenging.

[6:12] Ron Todorowski: Especially in New York.

[6:13] Jamie DuMont: It's really beautiful, exactly.

[6:14] Ron Todorowski: You know what I mean? So it's just that—that's first and foremost. I never miss a day. I did yesterday because we got up at an ungodly hour for Good Morning America.

[6:23] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[6:23] Ron Todorowski: I, uh, usually will catch up and do it later in the day. And I just didn't have time yesterday, but, um, that's a big, big, big part of my life. And then the physical aspect is really, you know, I'm 45, I'm the oldest cast member. I really feel like it's finding things that keep my body moving, but that aren't, um, basically low impact. Anything that's low impact, you know, like I just joined Equinox, and one of the main studios that I'm gonna go to that I'm closest is, uh, 93rd and Broadway, and the gentleman that checked me in was like, "The demographic is like 60s plus." I was like, "Perfect."

[7:02] Ron Todorowski: I found myself perfect.

[7:03] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, I was like, "Great, I'm gonna do like a light stretch class and like, you know, a mat Pilates and a, you know, so it's doing things that are—anything that's not the show, right? We call that cross-training, you know, anything that's like not, because the show is very high impact with a very hard stage. You know what I mean? So, um, it's really important, you know, and of course all the things, the acupuncture and massage and, you know, our cast members are doing all kinds of crazy crap, you know, like, uh, like infrared and cryotherapy. I'm learning all about this.

[7:34] Ron Todorowski: We’ve spoken to Maddie about the infrared, and I saw yesterday on Instagram, I think it was Manny, but I could be wrong, was doing the hydration replacement—oh, it was Jovon doing the hydration replacement, whatever that's called, yeah.

[7:49] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[7:49] Ron Todorowski: And I thought, "Oh my god, that is next level."

[7:52] Jamie DuMont: Sure.

[7:53] Ron Todorowski: And necessary, right?

[7:55] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, whatever it takes.

[7:56] Ron Todorowski: Whatever it takes, yeah.

[7:57] Jamie DuMont: And everyone has their own preferences, right?

[7:59] Ron Todorowski: Exactly.

[8:00] Ron Todorowski: I was just gonna say that earlier, like everybody has their own routine, especially with this show. You just have to.

[8:05] Jamie DuMont: Well, all of you know what is good for your body at this point, right? I feel like everyone has danced enough in their lives that they know how to take care of themselves.

[8:15] Ron Todorowski: Absolutely.

[8:15] Jamie DuMont: Speaking of the rigors of the show, you perform "Percussion 4."

[8:20] Ron Todorowski: Yes.

[8:20] Jamie DuMont: Which is the first big solo moment in the show. One of the few moments that one person is dancing solo on stage for an extended period of time. I was reading, uh, an old book about the show, and they mentioned that the original cast members used to jokingly, or maybe not so, call "Percussion 4" the dance of death.

[8:36] Ron Todorowski: Uh-huh.

[8:36] Jamie DuMont: Because it was so hard, right?

[8:38] Ron Todorowski: Right.

[8:38] Jamie DuMont: Famously, you know, done by Charles Ward in the original.

[8:41] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[8:41] Jamie DuMont: Um, I wonder if you could just share with us a little bit about how you sort of found your version of "Percussion 4."

[8:49] Ron Todorowski: Oh, absolutely. You know, like when I—when they first told me that I was gonna do it, I was like, "Are you sure?" You know, again, and I don't wanna—I wanna make sure I verbalize this correctly because I—I am very—I have no problem with saying I'm 45, zero. A lot of people, you know, the reaction when I come out of the stage door sometimes is like, "How are you doing this? How are you? Are you okay?" You know what I mean? And I understand that.

[9:16] Ron Todorowski: And my partner even said that he was like, "Oh, that's so rude." And I was like, "You know what? It doesn't bother me. I get it, but, um, I take it as a huge compliment."

[9:25] Ron Todorowski: So to answer, but to answer your question, I did—that did come into my—and especially eight times a week. You know, I've done principal shows, uh, principal roles, um, dance-dominant shows, mostly with Twyla Tharp, um, that have been incredibly difficult, but you know, Moving Out, we were—we ended up being double casted. So I have to do this eight times a week.

[9:43] Ron Todorowski: Right. The reality of that setting it, you know, in the beginning, I was like, "God, can I do this?" You know, I really didn't want to watch a lot of versions of it. I didn't want to get in my head about it, like, and I didn't want to compare myself to anybody. I just wanted to take the information and find my version.

[10:01] Ron Todorowski: So to answer your question, my version sort of came from this place of first asking as I enter because the towers are enclosed, right? And I loved that concept when Wayne brought that, um, to the table because for me, it's like it—that immediately sets it up with, "Can I still do this?" You know what I mean? And that's literally every show. It's like questioning, you know, like, "Okay, like I'm, you know, this certain—I'm at this age and this place in my life that most people say, like, you know, you should have been retired five, 10 years ago." You know what I mean?

[10:34] Ron Todorowski: And, um, so I love setting it up that way. And then—and sort of like this journey and all the pauses that Wayne put in and Corinne, uh, put in there. We all—we collaborated on, and it was like it gives me an opportunity not only to breathe, but to just sort of, you know, take a beat and be like, "You know, mentally, like be like, where am I at? No, I got this." You know what I mean? Like, "Maybe I can't, yes, I can." It's just that it makes sense as they come out. There's more space and there's more freedom. And then by the end, I'm like, "Yeah, I effing did it."

[11:06] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[11:07] Ron Todorowski: So what? There's been a lot of versions over the years, you know. I've worked with a lot of those brilliant men who have done this. Desmond Richardson, Keith Roberts, Tys Diorio, my god, so many. I've worked with mostly all of them, you know, just beautiful dancers, you know.

[11:22] Ron Todorowski: And I just—it's just again, it's another reason why I love doing the show at this age, at this place. And I—I hate that I keep bringing up age, but like it's reality. It just—it really—and that goes into the wellness aspect of like just really accepting where you are. And Wayne was really lovely about like letting me do me, you know, and adding these virtuostic, uh, virtuosic, um, elements of, uh, what I can do right now and what looks good on me in my body physically.

[11:49] Jamie DuMont: Well, it's so interesting because I, uh, in preparation for this, I thought, you know what, I should go back and watch Fosse just so I can see as a reference point, you know, how it is now versus how it was then, and obviously that was a version of what was done in '78.

[12:01] Ron Todorowski: Of course.

[12:01] Jamie DuMont: Um, and you just mentioned how Wayne and Corinne had had sort of built in those pauses.

[12:06] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[12:06] Jamie DuMont: And I was—I was waiting for—I was expecting them, and it's different, you know, it has a different rhythm to it, a different cadence. And also, it's—it—there's a bit more of a tease now to the piece, right?

[12:16] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[12:16] Jamie DuMont: As an audience member, yeah.

[12:17] Ron Todorowski: Sure, sure.

[12:19] Jamie DuMont: Where, you know, is he done? Is he not done? Is he done? Is he not done?

[12:22] Ron Todorowski: Right, and with those pauses, it sort of increases the drama of the dance.

[12:26] Ron Todorowski: And Wayne was so—and Corinne both were so wonderful about, uh, and I agreed, and I was so appreciative of making it more of a like a monologue, making it more of, um, less about like ta-da, look at all the crazy stuff I can do, and more like really making it intentional, you know what I mean? Like really focusing on the why and making it more of a monologue. So yeah, I'm so grateful that they allowed that to happen.

[12:50] Jamie DuMont: What is the most challenging moment in that piece for you as a dancer?

[12:55] Ron Todorowski: There's just the stamina of it. Like before I go out on stage, I say, "You're enough," and I just ask the universe, God, whatever, just to remind me to breathe. The biggest one, you know what I mean? Just really like be present and effing breathe.

[13:09] Ron Todorowski: You know what I mean? Like breathe. That's the stamina.

[13:12] Jamie DuMont: You mean at 45 you still don't remember to breathe?

[13:14] Ron Todorowski: I know. Well, yeah, you'd be surprised. Do you know what I mean? Because you get so caught up in it, you get so caught up in like, you know, the feeling or whatever, and yeah, you do hold your breath. It does become a thing that you kind of have to sort of choreograph.

[13:28] Jamie DuMont: I have to ask, what does it feel like to—there's several moments in the piece where you hit, you know, you get a pose that is so perfectly timed with the music. What does it feel like to make those statements, those hit those poses?

[13:46] Ron Todorowski: Amazing. It feels like, especially because of the percussion element of it, there's so much depth to it and the frequency of it. And I think the first one might be my favorite, like the very first one, and that's why I do that in my bow, yeah, my bow pose, the out of the turn. It just like sucks it all in in one moment and then the silence after that. And then of course the shrug at the end.

[14:10] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[14:11] Ron Todorowski: So what? Well, and you know, and he in the original he says that's all folks. And I used to say that. And they were like, try not saying it. Um, which I was okay with. I'm like, I'm like, oh, that's all folks. You know what I mean? I'm good not saying it. And it actually got a bigger response from the audience. So they were like, keep it, it works.

[14:33] Jamie DuMont: It's like when you smile at us too.

[14:35] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[14:36] Jamie DuMont: It's because you're very serious for most of it. And then you smile at us, and I feel the audience go, yeah. We are relieved into it to know that you're actually having fun.

[14:47] Ron Todorowski: Right. And that you're inviting us to have fun with you, right? Not just watch this extraordinary feat of dance. And the finality of like, you know, being like, Yes, I can. That's the intention behind it, is oh, right, yes, of course I can.

[15:02] Jamie DuMont: I just said the word invite or invitation, and it strikes me, obviously the show begins with an invitation, you know, Danny's monologue.

[15:09] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[15:10] Jamie DuMont: And then there's a series of numbers. In my experience of seeing the show, depending on the audience, and we were talking a little bit before we started recording about, you know, every audience is different.

[15:18] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, you know, some are more vocal than others.

[15:20] Jamie DuMont: I feel like no matter the audience, when you get to Percussion 4, the fourth wall is broken by your performance. So no matter what, no matter how the audience has been up to that point, that is the moment in the show where you're guaranteed, at least as you know, from my perspective, that the audience gets more vocal.

[15:36] Ron Todorowski: You know, because I think you acknowledge the audience.

[15:40] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[15:41] Ron Todorowski: You know, so directly.

[15:42] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, it's so interesting because, you know, we were saying this before we started too. I really maybe more than any show, don't really take in the audience. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I just—there's just so much to do that I don't want to get distracted by it. And I don't want to get distracted by, you know, like I was saying, Wayne said, you know, you can't play the same thing based on the previous audience. Then you're gonna set yourself up for failure—not failure, but disappointment. And also like the whole faucet thing was that, you know, he was always like, do not go to the audience, let them come to you, which is another reason why I don't really try—I try not to take them in a whole lot. For me, it keeps me more present.

[16:26] Jamie DuMont: Well, this is your 10th Broadway show.

[16:28] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, which is an incredible double-digit number to achieve. And beyond Broadway, you've done so much else, you know, in the world of dance, which we'll get into a little bit. I'm wondering if you could take us back to the beginning and share a little bit about when you started dancing and what your training was.

[16:45] Ron Todorowski: Sure. Well, I always have to tell people this. I have to. So I'm originally from McDonald, Pennsylvania, and my real name is Ronald.

[16:54] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, take it in.

[16:55] Ron Todorowski: I'm Ronald from McDonald. And so I just start that I have to start there. And so I grew up in a very small town. My parents are still there, my sister's nearby, and my brother-in-law, my nephew. Yeah, I started. I saw my next-door neighbor practicing something for cheerleading, like, you know, cartwheel or something, and I want to do gymnastics. I was like, I want to do gymnastics. And so I did a six-week program in the summer, and my coach, his mother had a dance school with an acrobatic program. I was a really skinny child and very hypermobile, very flexible. And he was like, I think, you know, so I was not—I couldn't do the rings and all the strength stuff. I was, you know, no way, but he was like, he really has a lot of facility, you know, he should go, you know, try dance.

And they have an acro program. So I did that, and then once I started taking ballet, I got better and better and started winning more competitions, and we did a lot of competitions. And then when I went to New York City, I started taking with different teachers. That's when I really—my eyes were really open to like how much there was to learn and how much that really was what made me want to dance. Taking from various teachers and just being like, wow, it's endless. I still feel that way. You know what I mean? Like the journey artistically is just—it's never-ending, you know. The growth is open.

[18:14] Ron Todorowski: And so I got my first job in Cats in Germany. I had three years of German in high school. So I went and did the Hamburg production of Cats, which was like an amazing first job because I had never been to Europe, A. And B, I got to work with artists from all over the world, you know, and go see.

[18:31] Jamie DuMont: Which cat were you?

[18:32] Ron Todorowski: I was a swing. I'm so glad I was a swing. I say this all the time. I'm so glad that was my first job was being a swing because it's the hardest job in the business. And you can always tell when an actor hasn't been a swing because they just don't know. They just don't know how hard it is, you know. And I think it just set me up for—I'm so compassionate to our understudies and in dance and are extraordinary. I could go on and on about them. And then I went to New York City and auditioned for Mia Michael's company and got into that company, and then I made my Broadway debut in Footloose as a vacation swing. So the company was—so I was kind of doing that at the same time when I moved to New York, Footloose here and there and the company because it was still new.

And then from that point forward, I was just like, I'm hooked of doing both, you know, like I'm just gonna like audition and go where my heart is telling me to go, you know, and that's sort of been my career. Sort of like, okay, I want to do a show. Okay, no, it's time to like get serious and dance. Not that theater isn't serious, but like, you know, being in a company is a very different schedule and kind of—it's just different, you know, doing rep of different choreographers and this and that, and then as opposed to doing the same show eight times a week. That's sort of been my back and forth.

[19:55] Jamie DuMont: Well, several people we've talked to have alluded to how this industry can put people in boxes, yeah, very easily.

[20:02] Ron Todorowski: Oh, yeah.

[20:02] Jamie DuMont: Right. And is it common or uncommon?

[20:06] Ron Todorowski: I think it's more uncommon for someone like you to straddle both worlds so successfully.

[20:11] Ron Todorowski: I think it's becoming more and more uncommon, thank goodness. Because—and I'm so grateful. I actually teach for a dance convention called Nouveau that's just amazing. I love that job because I get to tell kids, you know, like explain to them what my career has been and that you can do both. Right. You know what I mean? You don't have to—you just gotta listen to where your heart's telling you to go and be open and willing to do it all. I wanted to do commercial dance too. I mean, I worked—I did a couple, I did the Video Music Awards and, you know, like dance for Ne-Yo, and, you know, like I wanted to be on tour with Janet Jackson, didn't do that. But, you know, like I wanted to do it all, right? You know, and so I love that I get to say that to kids now, be like, do it all.

[20:53] Jamie DuMont: Resist the box.

[20:53] Ron Todorowski: Exactly. Resist the box, yeah. I mean, it's great to have one direction, of course. You know, if that's you, great. I know a lot of artists like that. But it's also okay to be, you know, keep it open.

[21:04] Jamie DuMont: Well, you shared on Instagram the other day that you had broken both of your legs.

[21:08] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[21:09] Jamie DuMont: When you were fourteen or fifteen.

[21:10] Ron Todorowski: Oh no, it was '94-'95.

[21:12] Jamie DuMont: And then there's a four and a five in there.

[21:13] Ron Todorowski: Yeah. Can you share the story of how that happened? And obviously, for someone—if you see you on stage, you'd say, or you've looked at the career you've had, you'd be like, How did he break both of his legs?

[21:22] Ron Todorowski: Yeah. You know, and still be able to do all the things that you're doing. It ended up being the biggest blessing in my life because I—so I—the first time it happened, I had—we just won a dodgeball game. So I went downstairs in the locker room and jumped up to grab a pipe, and I missed it, and I fell on a concrete floor, like in just a messed up position. And I fractured my tibia, fibula, and growth plate at the same time. They took me to a local hospital, and thank goodness my dance teacher, my ballet teacher who's not with us anymore, Miss Marie, went into that local hospital and said, You are not touching that kid's leg. Do not—and somehow got me into Dr. Fu, who's also no longer with us, who worked on the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And I, his associate, Dr. Christopher Harner did my surgery. And so that was the first break, and then I went back way too soon because I was young and thought I was invincible, and my—because I had been compensating, didn't know what that was at the time, my left knee got really weak, and so it was dislocating a lot. So I had to get patella realignment. He was like, Listen, you're really young, just do it now. Just let's just bolt that in place. And so they did patella realignment, which is when they move your tibia, I believe, down and over, and they basically like screw it in, you know, and then you do therapy to keep the knee stabilized. And then I went back way too soon again, didn't learn my lesson.

Third time's a charm, and I went to an audition in Vegas just because I was there, whatever, and I did a tumbling pass and on the takeoff because it wasn't healed. I fractured it and landed on one leg like Carrie Strug in the Olympics. And they took me away and I had broken it. And that was the final straw. I remember having a conversation with a friend and just being like, maybe—and I said this in the post, maybe I'm just not meant to do this. And then I could—I quickly realized, no, you just have to listen. You have to listen to your body, you have to take care of your body. That's why I say it was the biggest blessing. It was because I just learned from a really young age, like how fragile the body is, but also how strong it is and how it can heal if you take care of it.

[23:33] Jamie DuMont: I'm a big believer too that the universe sometimes does these things so that it helps you. Like in the moment, breaking your leg twice, those injuries in such a short period of time is devastating, right? And you think you're never gonna work again. And then what you realize when you're a little older and you look back on it and you think, oh, these—this is actually a thing that prepared me for the rest of my life.

[23:55] Ron Todorowski: A hundred percent.

[23:56] Jamie DuMont: In a kind of terrible and wonderful way.

[23:58] Ron Todorowski: Absolutely, 100%. I injured—one more quick injury story. I injured my lower back pretty badly in Wicked on Broadway, and I had a real come to—I had not injured myself that badly since my legs. And I was in my mid-30s at the time, I think, early to mid-30s, and I really was devastated. I mean, I could not get off the couch. I was like, this might be it. To your point, what ended up being like so amazing was it was such a dark time. But, you know, if you can transcend that and use, you know, like—which I'm again so grateful for my spiritual practice. I was able to do that. I got my yoga certification at that time in the middle of my medical leave. And I started like, you know, asking myself those really important questions, you know, because this is gonna end.

What are you—what else are you if you're not a dancer? And I discovered that I'm so much more, you know. I love to cook. I'm not gonna start a career in it, but I started—I emailed a bunch of dancers. I ended up—I still can't believe this happened. Got like 25 of the most incredible dancers in a room to like just work on material to see if I like to choreograph. Turns out I do. It can feel so, so dark, and so that all those challenges in the moment are so heavy and deep in the time, but they really are opportunities for growth and expansion.

[25:15] Jamie DuMont: Have you always been a spiritual person? Or did that come as a result of the things that happened to you, the accidents, the injuries?

[25:23] Ron Todorowski: I think I have always had a curiosity about it. The med—I was always into yoga, but then the meditation came when I was talking to a friend of mine who had read an article that, you know, scientifically proven like all these things, you know. I'm not gonna go into it because I can go into it forever. But, um, with brain health and heart health and just, you know, keeping your body in homeostasis, it's endless how many health benefits there are to meditation. I was like, I'm gonna try it. Like, it's that good for you. And I just—I just noticed a difference immediately in my—I didn't realize how anxious I was, how much of an—how much anxiety I had. I had no idea. And that's what meditation does. It helps you practice, you're constantly practicing what you're thinking. We are completely unaware of 90% of our thoughts throughout our day.

[26:13] Ron Todorowski: And that's really scary. And why, again, I'm not gonna go on a tangent, but why humanity is so dysfunctional because we're mind dominant. Our minds are in control, you know what I mean? And it should be the other way around. And so I just noticed benefits of it immediately, and that just kept me. But yeah, the injuries, no, I think those were kind of like separate, I would say.

[26:38] Jamie DuMont: You were always a spiritual person. Kind of always headed down that path.

[26:42] Ron Todorowski: I think so. Yeah. Curious. It was always curious. Well, speaking of the universe, just sort of, you know, aligning and things working out. You're now a principal member of the cast of DANCIN’. Can you share with us how you came to this project and what that audition process was like?

[26:56] Ron Todorowski: I would love to. So it was in the middle of the pandemic in 2020. I remember the moment exactly. As I said, I love to cook. I'm cooking. I think I had my dog in my hand or whatever, and I'm just like, you know, cooking up a storm. That was like my day. Was just like, what are we having for dinner? And my agent called and was like, would you be interested in DANCIN’? DANCIN’ is coming back. And I was like, sure, of course I am. But honestly, in my mind, it was like never gonna happen. Like, you know, in that moment, it was like the world was ending, you know what I mean? It was like, we don't even know if our business is coming back, let alone the entertainment industry was completely unknown, as was everything else.

So that was the first time I heard of it. And then Wayne wanted some dancers to just kind of like he wanted some bodies to like, you know, just put up some of the work and some of the movement. So they asked me and a few, I think there were 10 of us to come in. That was like a year and a half ago. But honestly, it still always was it was always in the back of my head, like, this isn't gonna happen. It's too good to be true, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, because that does enter our conscience a lot, right? You're just like, uh, you know, and I don't even want to think about it because I don't want to get my hopes up, you know what I mean? And there's no guarantee that I'm gonna be in the show, even though I'm like, you know, so it was just like, you know, just trying to stay present.

So that happened, and then the workshop happened, and yeah, we had the whole audition process, which I went in four times for it. I mean, they really were as they should have been very thorough with making sure everybody was the right fit and can do things for the, you know, the asks of the show.

[28:33] Jamie DuMont: Clearly, when the second you heard DANCIN’, you knew exactly what it was.

[28:38] Ron Todorowski: Oh, yeah. What was your relationship to sort of the show and to Bob Fosse like?

[28:42] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, so I, you know, honestly, I didn't really have a lot of knowledge of Bob Fosse at the moment, you know, at that time. I knew a lot of dancers that I'd worked with who did Fosse and I knew Wayne was, you know, his experience with it. But yeah, I didn't really know much about him. I actually love that I didn't. I love that I came in like kind of green because it, um, I just dove in like headfirst, like from day one, as soon as I started learning the material. I was like, where have I been? Like, how have I missed out on this? I don't use the word genius like ever. Like, really, I think it's very overly used in the artistic world. Bob Fosse was a genius. He was an absolute genius. Jerome Robbins was a genius. You know, like when I was learning it that first week, I was just like, oh, I get it now. Why dancers that I've known that have done the work like, you know, speak so highly of it and are so hold on to it so dearly, you know.

[29:43] Jamie DuMont: Did you have a specific aha moment when you realized, oh, this is the work of a genius? This is, I'm getting to do something very special. Was there a moment or was it just?

[29:50] Ron Todorowski: It was when I was first and not not a particular moment, but I think it was just the variety, the versatility. I think that's what really did it. Like that I again, that first week of learning the material when Wayne was just, you know, looking at it on bodies, like, you know, in different bodies. I think that was like that first, I would say like few days, I was just like, this is just, it's just so special. It's just extraordinary. There's so much texture, there's so much variety.

[30:25] Jamie DuMont: Given all the other experiences you've had with other choreographers and other styles, do you realize once you sort of got into the world of Bob Fosse how he had influenced other work that you'd already done?

[30:38] Ron Todorowski: Oh, that's a great idea. Or is this or is this totally?

[30:40] Jamie DuMont: Oh, sure.

[30:41] Ron Todorowski: I never thought about it. No, I never thought, yeah. Oh, 100%, yes. I never thought about it. And that continues. I continue to discover that, you know what I mean, and realize that, you know, like, not just artists that I've worked with, but like, you know, Beyoncé, you know, Michael Jackson, like I mean, it's endless. You know what I mean? Like you see, yeah. And that's why I think it's so great for this new generation to see this show, because they'll see like, you know, "Single Ladies" in there. But you know, it's straight up in there.

[31:09] Jamie DuMont: Well, I think from scanning everyone's bios, I think you might be the person who's the most seasoned at doing a dance show on Broadway. As you mentioned earlier, you've done several with Twyla Tharp.

[31:17] Ron Todorowski: Right, right. How does the experience of doing DANCIN’ differ or is similar to doing "Movin' Out" or "Come Fly Away," or you know, any of the other ones you've done?

[31:30] Ron Todorowski: Dylis and I did "Movin' Out," actually. We never got to we didn't get to go on a whole lot together because she came on tour. DANCIN’ is unique because we are being asked to speak and sing, and you know, Twyla is all about the, you know, the choreography is the dialogue. Still a tall order, still a huge challenge in its own way. With DANCIN’, you're just you're constantly switching gears. You know, really like going from like sing sing to like "Here You Come Again," where you just gotta like really and that "Here You Coming" used to be much more of like a scene in San Diego, you know, now it's like a real act, which is so much fun. But it's a totally different energy, you know what I mean? I mean, that's just one example.

"Big City Mime" is like constantly it that's just like a stick shift. You're, you know, you're going from "Pippin" to the frug to "Snake in the Grass" to, you know, they're all different, you know. And Wayne is constantly and Corinne are constantly reminding us that it's like you have to come in as a different person, even though they're so short and they're so small, you have to switch those gears, you know. So I think that makes DANCIN’ uniquely a wonderful challenge.

[32:41] Jamie DuMont: It's interesting because you know, we've spoken to a few other members of the company so far, and the one thing we hear over and over again, and you just said it, you're asked to be yourself, and then you're asked to be 20 other characters, right? But always to be yourself, right? So it has to be a real challenge to be able to balance those two things where you're bringing yourself to every movement, and part of the reason you were cast was who you are as a person, right? In addition to your talent as a dancer, yeah. But then you have to play these different characters, so it's sort of a like my sister, my mother, my sister, my mother. You know, that kind of thing where you're like, who am I right now?

[33:15] Ron Todorowski: Right, right. And that sounds as challenging as some of the steps that you have to do.

[33:18] Jamie DuMont: Definitely. I again, I'm I wasn't going to, but I gotta bring age into it. It's easier when you're older, I think. And do you know what I mean? Because you just it's just I and I'm so I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm so glad I'm doing this now. I constantly say I'm 55 turning 56. And I think it's great because we do live in a world where age is an issue.

[33:42] Rob Russo: Yeah, you're right. You are out there every single day of your life on stage and in your private life, proving that it is just a number, right?

[33:50] Ron Todorowski: It's a number that you have. No, you're totally right. And it's a number that means something, right? Things are harder, it's worth saying a lot. But with age comes a certain knowledge of things that you didn't eat when you were 20. And it gives you a freedom. In the limitations, it gives you a freedom. I think that's something that people don't you don't know until you're there.

[34:09] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, exactly. And you're letting go of things. You know what I mean? Like, like, I think it was Peter and I were having that conversation the other day of like, you know, like when we were younger, like we would have agonized over like falling out of a pirouette, or like, you know, and that's still hard sometimes, you know. I mean, there are body limitations that I'm working with for sure, and I have to remind myself, like just let go. Like you can't physically do certain things that you the same way that you could do 10 years ago, and that's okay. You know, like be where you are, you know, like be where you are right now and be and be okay with it.

[34:46] Ron Todorowski: Well, something I've picked up on, and I hope you know this in just sort of viewing the social media universe of all of your castmates, is how much love and respect people have for you within the company.

[34:59] Jamie DuMont: Thank you.

[34:59] Ron Todorowski: That's the company I thought you were going with that. Thank you. For each other, of course.

[35:03] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[35:04] Ron Todorowski: But there, but there's sort of like a reverence doesn't feel like the right word, but I hope you know what I mean when I say reverence. You know, that's there's a I people say that you really appreciate what you bring to the company.

[35:14] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, you know, age aside, just your experience.

[35:17] Ron Todorowski: Yeah. Whether you're no matter your age, right?

[35:19] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[35:20] Ron Todorowski: That I would imagine, and I think I'm right, that your presence is very inspiring for your castmates.

[35:28] Jamie DuMont: Well, thank you.

[35:29] Ron Todorowski: Who I appreciate that.

[35:30] Jamie DuMont: Take you as an example of you know someone who to emulate, right? In terms of the way that you've had a built your career, and then also the way you conduct yourself as a professional.

[35:39] Ron Todorowski: I was just gonna say that Finding Neverland was the first show where I was significantly the oldest in the ensemble in the dance ensemble. And that moment was really great because that was a moment that I realized what a responsibility that is.

[35:55] Jamie DuMont: Yeah to be a leader.

[35:56] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, and being a leader isn't necessarily it's it's not using words, right? It's what you just said, it's presence. That cast, we're all still incredibly close. That was just a very special group of people. We're all very close. And I just hung out with a friend of my Emma Feffle the other day, and we were just talking about and she said, you know, you like just seeing you meditate like at the end of the show, or like just seeing how you would conduct yourself, you know, was the best teacher.

[36:23] Jamie DuMont: Well, to end on somewhat of a fun note, do you have a favorite moment in the show, whether it's something you do or someone else does?

[36:29] Ron Todorowski: I do, "Dancing Man," hands down favorite moment of the show. It's a dancer's prayer, and that ties into my spiritual life. I mean, the first line I could cry thinking about it, like the first line. It's taken me a lot. Eo Alfonso and I laugh about this because she she was uh she couldn't even sing on opening night. I want to be a dancing man while I can. I mean, just that opening line, and the fact that we look up and we say that out to the audience is that's my favorite moment of the show. And we all and we're all saying it.

[37:00] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, we're all on stage saying it.

[37:01] Ron Todorowski: And it means something different to all of you.

[37:03] Jamie DuMont: Exactly. It's such a beautiful message, you know, and beautifully choreographed. I think it's just structurally perfect, that number. He nailed it.

[37:13] Ron Todorowski: How about a favorite step?

[37:15] Jamie DuMont: You know, people always ask that. That's a really hard question.

[37:18] Ron Todorowski: Yeah.

[37:18] Jamie DuMont: Because there's five million of them. I don't know. I can't answer that.

[37:21] Ron Todorowski: A favorite step.

[37:24] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, everyone always asks that favorite move. I'm like, I don't know. All of them.

[37:30] Ron Todorowski: All of them. Yeah. I really could not answer that. I I've been asked that so many times. I really can't answer that.

[37:35] Jamie DuMont: Well, good, I respect that. Rather than give us a false answer.

[37:38] Ron Todorowski: I can't. I can't. Otherwise, it'd be BS. I really don't know. 100%.

[37:42] Rob Russo: Yeah. Favorites are hard too. I personally, as Jamie knows, I don't like picking favorites.

[37:45] Jamie DuMont: Uh-huh.

[37:46] Rob Russo: Uh, he's very, he's the master of the ranked list.

[37:49] Jamie DuMont: I wrote that question.

[37:52] Rob Russo: No, it's it's not a bad question. It's just, it's it's a hard question to answer for me.

[37:56] Ron Todorowski: When I met Rob, like without we didn't even know each other, and within an hour, I was like, I need your top 10 Broadway overtures now.

[38:05] Rob Russo: It's very hard.

[38:06] Ron Todorowski: Very hard to do.

[38:07] Rob Russo: And yet, I got them.

[38:08] Ron Todorowski: Yeah, quite quickly.

[38:10] Rob Russo: Yes, in a Spotify playlist, which I didn't even know what Spotify again, because I'm an old lady. I had no idea what Spotify. I had to like look it up and fuck, I gotta download something. But anyway, thank you so much.

[38:21] Ron Todorowski: Thank you. That was so much fun.

[38:23] Jamie DuMont: That was really fun. You guys are awesome.

[38:25] Ron Todorowski: A dancing man.

[38:28] Jamie DuMont: A dancing man.

[38:30] Ron Todorowski: A dancing man with footsteps on the sandwich.

[38:37] Rob Russo: Bob Fosse's DANCIN’ is now on Broadway at the Music Box Theater. For tickets and more information, visit DancinBway.com.

[38:40] Jamie DuMont: DANCIN’ Man, a Fabulous Invalid Podcast, is a production of OM Etc. and the Fabulous Invalid LLC, and a proud member of the Broadway Podcast Network. Special thanks to Civilian for hosting us and to our audio engineer, Kyle Moore. If you liked this episode, we've got over a hundred episodes of the Fabulous Invalid Podcast that you can check out, including a two-parter on the life, work, and legacy of Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon. You can find us online at thefabulousinvalid.com and on social media at Fabulous Invalid and on iTunes, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.