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[0:10] Rob Russo: Welcome to DANCIN’ Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast featuring exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast and creative team of Bob Fosse's DANCIN’ on Broadway.

[0:18] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont.

[0:19] Rob Russo: I'm Rob Russo.

[0:20] Jamie DuMont: And we're your hosts.

[0:21] Rob Russo: We're also excited to be co-producers of DANCIN’ on Broadway and thrilled to be back in the Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian for another conversation with a member of the company.

[0:30] Jamie DuMont: Yes, and joining us this week is cast member Pedro Garza.

[0:33] Rob Russo: DANCIN’ marks Pedro's Broadway debut. He's performed in tours of Anastasia and Hamilton, and he's done a lot of regional work and appearances on TV, but of course, he's now an understudy principal dancer in DANCIN’.

[0:45] Jamie DuMont: And we're really excited to talk about that.

[0:46] Rob Russo: We are.

[1:01] Pedro Garza: Hi, thanks for having me.

[1:02] Rob Russo: Well, gosh, okay. You've gone through rehearsals, previews, and now over six weeks of performances, which begs the question: how are you feeling? And you've had a day off, right?

[1:11] Pedro Garza: Yeah, we're filming this on a Tuesday. So yesterday was the, uh, restful day, the, uh, chores, household, uh, task day. So yeah, it's the body's feeling, uh, pretty good. I'm, I have the luxury of being an understudy. I guess luxury isn't the right word because mentally it's, you know, pretty tasking and privilege, maybe. So yeah, challenge.

[1:36] Pedro Garza: Yes, but it still has demanded a new care routine from me and a new standard of upkeep for sure from any sort of previous job that I've had. And I think I admire and respect that in a way to kind of, um, pay tribute and honor what my body needs in the moment more. And so I'm listening to it a lot more intensely.

[1:54] Rob Russo: You just came from a Hamilton tour into DANCIN’. How has that care routine changed or has it changed from that show to this show?

[2:04] Pedro Garza: I think it's so interesting because Andy was a Fosse dancer. And so I remember going into Hamilton auditions initially thinking, this isn't for me. I don't know if this is gonna be my world. And then a lot of what Andy choreographs is out of the Fosse vocabulary. And so it feels in my body so natural and just wonderful. It just feels so juicy and good to do.

[2:34] Pedro Garza: With Hamilton, I think it was a lot, uh, it had some dynamics and some explosive moments, but I think physically and, uh, cardiovascularly, I guess is the word. Uh, this show is kind of a bit more intense. It has less of a slow burn than Hamilton. This one's kind of right out the gate. You kind of gotta be ready to go. So it's, and it demands more from me as someone who covers multiple roles vocally as well, too. So it's, it's kind of just raised my bar in a lot of ways, and I'm very grateful for that, to be honest. So I think it's just kind of utilizing different skill sets, um, from me in new ways that I've stepped up to the challenge for.

[3:15] Jamie DuMont: I'm wondering if we could just set the stage a little by taking a step back, uh, to take a look at your childhood, your parents, where you're from, and when you started dancing.

[3:24] Pedro Garza: Well, I was born in Abilene, Texas, a tiny little town in Texas. It's about two and a half hours west of Dallas, and that's where most people like know of in Texas. You know, they don't know of Abilene. And so I grew up and I had a lot of energy as a kid, and my parents kind of really didn't know what to do with me. I remember throwing down a four by four piece of plywood in the garage. My parents were playing Cumbia music on the, like, big old stereo, like the, the what's it called?

[3:51] Rob Russo: Boombox?

[3:51] Pedro Garza: Boombox. Thank you. Jeez. We were playing it on the boombox, and I just like started dancing. I must have been like five or six. And so I was giving them a show. And I would always do little concerts or performances or stage things on the, the man, like the fireplace that became like the stage for the living room. And so they put me in a bunch of, um, creative camps over the summer, just different acting and imagination camps. And eventually I came around to taking a few dance classes. I never really, uh, studied dance super intensely. I would take classes, and I was kind of very poor at, um, sticking to the routine of classes, to be honest with you. I'm a very, I have, um, I have mild ADHD, and I think if, and it truly, if a task becomes like less fun, I will like opt out.

[4:35] Pedro Garza: Oh, in the same way, and so yeah, and so my attention is just very divided and scattered, and you know, I've learned to work with that. And so it wasn't until college, really. I went to Ithaca, uh, college upstate that I really studied intensely dance, and dance kind of cradled me in ways that I didn't know it could. I, it, it really saved me from falling in a lot of ways. It caught me in a, in many ways, and dance teachers. There's so many special dance teachers that just guided me along the way. So that was really where the journey started.

[5:11] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, like not until you were like 18, yeah.

[5:14] Pedro Garza: Yeah, really, really intensely. I had some wonderful dance teachers throughout my early childhood, of course. Yeah, um, but the real focus when I really kind of understood and comprehended, like, oh, I think I meant to tell stories through this was around 17 or 18.

[5:28] Rob Russo: Which is unique among the cast members we've spoken to because it's a little later.

[5:32] Pedro Garza: Right. You know, it sort of sounds like Wayne Cilento's story, right?

[5:34] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[5:35] Pedro Garza: He didn't start dancing until he was, you know, in his late teens. It is interesting because I did recognize that right away, you know. I mean, we got to know each other, the cast, and I'm new to the company for Broadway. To come in with my specific relationship with dance, coming by way of singing and acting, is so interesting. I feel like a black sheep in a way, but like not ostracized in any way. I just think it's such a cool, different perspective. And I think it's just testament to how diverse this, this company of this show is.

[6:10] Pedro Garza: Because everyone has a different relationship to dance, to the stories we tell through dance, not even with just the relationship to it, but their body types and the way we look. And it's just such an amazing, diverse way of thinking, a group of thinkers and dancers and artists that it's, it's, it's really cool. I feel really embraced by them all.

[6:27] Rob Russo: I'm struck by a thought, because this is something we talk about on this podcast a lot, which is how unique it is that the company of DANCIN’ is so tight, so supportive, so right, like it's a really, it's a really unique situation, I find. And I'm wondering if some of that stems from the fact that you all have such wildly different and varied backgrounds and relationships to dance, right? So there's no, like, everybody went through this one kind of program, right? Which takes away some sort of competition in a weird way, or maybe that's not the right word. Has that been your experience?

[7:03] Pedro Garza: I think so. And I think competition is a safe word to use in this too, because I mean, look at the dance world now. It is a competition, and dance on Broadway is becoming a competition, you know. I never, I mean, you know, we're all kids and we picture, you know, winning a Tony. We picture winning such and such award, but then, you know, and I go and do it out on a stage in my high school or out, you know, on stage at the music box, and I'm out there, and I'm like, not once is it like, does it run through my mind, like, I could, I want to dance to win this award. I want to dance to win this. And there are many institutions that are wonderful, but think can promote a sort of mindset that like I'm making art to win this award, to get this achievement, to get to this ranking.

[7:55] Pedro Garza: And to have so many diverse upbringings and relationships to dance and, uh, educations through dance and just people in different walks of life and places in their lives. We have parents, we have people, uh, who are like not even 21, you know, and people like, you know, people in their, you know, all ages and all, uh, walks of life, like I said, I think it's so helpful to have so many different perspectives, because I think that's where the familial aspect really just gels and solidifies. It's because all opinions and all feelings and all emotions are valid through all of it. And we've all experienced some of that one way or another, and we can relate to each other in that way. So it goes beyond just dance.

It goes like, it's like life. And I remember, um, I think it was a Forbes interviewer who asked me, was interviewing me about the show, and I said, if you could take, because the big DANCIN’ letters were up, you know, on the stage while they were interviewing me, and I said, if you could take those letters and switch them around, like it could say like living. Because honestly, that's what everyone's doing on that stage, because they're just inhabiting themselves and just portraying these moves the most authentically and honestly that they can.

[9:06] Pedro Garza: And that comes from the diversity because we're not trying to be unison all the time, you know, in moments, sure. But I think that's what's beautiful. That's what's so just like it overwhelms me with emotion because it's like you see Corey up there, you see Ida, and they're doing the same choreography, but they're interpreting it so differently. And that's what art should be. I was saying to Jamie the other day, you know, like I want to stop talking about theater in terms of awards and competition. Because obviously that's a part of it, that's part of the business. I get that. It's show business, it's not, you know, show something else, right? It's show business. But at the end of the day, you know, it is when you're on stage, you're right. That's the last thing that's on your mind, right? Is the business of it, is the awards, is the competition, is whatever. What is forefront in your mind is the doing of the art, right? The activity itself.

[10:06] Jamie DuMont: So speaking of this amazing company that was put together, what was your audition experience like? Because you did come to the company for Broadway. You were not involved in the San Diego run, right?

[10:16] Pedro Garza: Right, right. I actually remember the first time I was brought in was on Halloween last year. Um, and I was on tour with Hamilton, and we happened to be, I think, in Baltimore. And so we were gonna go to Rochester next. And so, by way of New York City. Or, or you know, I was, I drove, I drove the tour very, very nice, and so I stopped in to do a little, uh, dance call and was cut. Um, and I was pretty at that point, um, my partner Tony D’Alelio and I were already, uh, together, you know, a few months. And I, that, that one I think really, it really, uh, tore me up a bit inside. I was like, I felt pretty distraught. And so, but then I made my peace with it. I said, you know, this isn't for me. This probably, this isn't my show, isn't my time. And I came to terms with that.

[11:02] Pedro Garza: Fast forward a month and a half later, I get an email asking to sing on tape Bojangles and Crunchy Granola Suite. Uh, and so I taped it. I was about to go on vacation to the South of France. So I taped it, and then I flew to Barcelona to grab the car, uh, to drive to the South of France, and on the plane, I submitted the tape. And then about eight or so days into my vacation, I still had a few days left. They said, Can you come to New York and dance on Monday? And I said, No, I'm in France. I said, I can't. I'm across the, I'm literally out of the country. And I also was having a really tough time reasoning with myself to go and spend hundreds of more dollars to possibly have the same thing happen again.

And I didn't know if I could put myself through that. Um, my agent, you know, was saying, I think maybe you should do it. There's only a few of you that they're asking to come and see, and so cut that trip a little early, came back, flew straight to New York, did it for about four or five hours, sang and danced, and then remet the tour of Hamilton in Cleveland. I was driving, uh, to re-meet up with them, and they called and said, Thank you for changing your flight. You got it.

[12:18] Pedro Garza: And I've only done a few shows, but there's those moments when you're like, I feel like I've got this, and not like I nailed that, but I'm on the same wavelength as the people that are instructing me, and they can sense that. Like we sense that we are wanting to make this together. And that's what I felt in there, especially with Wayne and Corinne both. They were both there. And so they were both like instructing and giving me all these things. And it was great.

[12:50] Jamie DuMont: Well, DANCIN’ is special for a number of reasons. It marks your Broadway debut. But also you and your partner Tony are both in the show together, which has to be special. What has it been like sharing this experience together as a couple?

[13:04] Pedro Garza: It's proved to be like a gift that keeps on giving. I was gonna say onion, but then that's a weird image to like feel like repealing away layers and stuff, and it just keeps saying, and onions, you know, are onions, but I think it can, it proves to be sort of an onion in a way.

[13:21] Jamie DuMont: It's not a weird image at all. I mean, I think it also is you mentioned this a second ago, but you guys are in a newer relationship in the sense that it's been a couple of years, correct?

[13:30] Pedro Garza: Yeah. Well, well, with the pandemic, right? Or were you together?

[13:33] Pedro Garza: We were, we’ve only, we’ve only been together for about a, like a little under a year.

[13:33] Jamie DuMont: Little under a year. Okay.

[13:39] Pedro Garza: So it is like it, it is like it is fresh. It is like an onion because you are discovering all these things about who you both are as individuals, how you function as a couple, and now doing a show together.

[13:51] Pedro Garza: Oh, yes, and before, even, you know, we were out with Hamilton, and we were very conscious of, you know, voicing what we need and voicing our concerns and our comfortabilities, especially during a rehearsal process to, to, you know, come to New York and to have all these things to live together, and, uh, it's the communication aspect has to be so at the forefront. Uh, and we continually demand that of each other, honestly. It feels like I keep saying this to people, it feels like we've created this sort of energetic orb that we exist in, that our language exists in, that our conversation and communication exists in. And if something else infiltrates, whether it be influence from, you know, a parent, or how we learn to talk to each other from growing up, or, um, how we felt that day, you know, we'll kind of, we'll sense that.

We have a radar for that. And we're like, who's who said that? It's like he's like, oh, that's, you know, I, my, my mom would say it to my dad, you know, my, or I'd say, you know, I learned because my parents would talk to each other like that, or they treat each other like that sometimes, or it's things like that that we are so in tune with, uh, thankfully, that we're able to really define what Tony and Pedro's language with each other is and what our existence is together and how we are there to literally support and champion each other.

[15:07] Pedro Garza: Like I had a, uh, I went on for, um, Manny Herrera, um, and sang "Bo Jangles," you know, I did the whole shebang, um, this past week for the first time. I debuted as that track. And to hear him share his thoughts and opinions and just how proud he was of me just felt so incredible. I think we value each other's words so deeply. And I think, um, to be fleshing out and navigating this artistic and business world together, you know, is a great blessing. Cause I think we both are holding and squeezing each other's hands, like we literally did during the show together. Also, too, to be doing that alongside someone who I trust in so many ways. And so to be both debuting is such a rarity. Yeah. And I don't take that for granted. I don't for one second think that this is gonna be a common thing. I understand it's its singularity in this moment, and I'm just eternally grateful. I want to sit in gratitude every second that I can.

[16:27] Jamie DuMont: Well, to add another layer to that onion, you're not only in the show together, but you cover Tony's track, right? And you know, as we talked about with Tony, you know, he had, uh, you know, a medical emergency, right? During, you know, uh, before the show started, and of course, was out the week of right before it opened. Right. And so in this moment of like increased, uh, you know, uh, nervousness and eyes on the show and a lot of energy and everything, you had to step into the show, uh, covering his track right before it opened. Right. What was that like?

[17:02] Pedro Garza: It was exhilarating, anxiety inducing. I mean, because also, you know, we’d been through so much. It was, you know, there was a time when I was running, I was running to the hospital after a tech day at, you know, 10:30, 11 p.m., staying there till 2, 3 a.m., going home to sleep, waking up and then going back to tech. And I was seeing Tony in the hospital, and we're very familiar with hospitals. If you have the theme, the running theme of our last few months was, uh, for us was hospitals. We decided to close that chapter. We were up. We've done that. Yeah, check. Yeah. It is one of those things, again, that makes us feel so held and supportive of each other. It's a beautiful like waltz of sorts. So, you know, it's a dance that we get to kind of, uh, embody and play. But, um, literally and figuratively.

[17:52] Pedro Garza: Yes, yes, yes. But that was a very, very intense time. And that Manny performance that I got to do this past week was the first time that we got to do the show together. And so those hand squeezing moments throughout the show just meant even more, you know. Again, like however long it lasts while we were there squeezing and saying, he's like, we're on Broadway, we're on Broadway. And yeah, so that you can't take that away.

[18:17] Jamie DuMont: It's nice to hear that you understand the singularity of it, that you get that the moment is to be cherished. It's just one of those reassuring moments that despite whether it's in the middle of a pandemic and I don't have any work, or if I'm on unemployment, you know, or if I'm on a Broadway stage, that I'm inherently an artist and a creative. And that's not because of a contract. That's not because I've been given moves to do, that's not because I've been assigned something. And that's something that I have to remind myself too in moments where, you know, you question everything, you know, even in moments, even on Broadway, the imposter syndrome can be really, really loud. Um, so to have those, um, inhales and exhales to really believe that my creativity will not be defined by the walls of a Broadway theater or an awards ceremony or a paycheck. You know, I think that's a place of liberation and a real place of honest creativity that I want to inhabit more often.

[19:33] Pedro Garza: I didn't have a lot of, you know, technique, technique, technique training. I wasn't, I'm not a dancer by any means, you know, and I hope people listening can understand like what the spelling of the word, even though as I say it. I just think that I search for, I continually search for this level of honesty within all of my work that for me exceeds any sort of, um, finesse or technique. I think for me, seeing someone who maybe doesn't have the most turns or highest leg, but tells the most interesting and honest and authentic story blows me out of the water. I've seen so many performances like that, and you know, people can nitpick and, and you know, pull strings on everything, but then if it's moved me to a place that I can't even verbalize within the first few minutes, maybe then it's like, okay, well then I know they're doing something right. There's nothing more deflating than seeing something that's technically proficient but just has no soul or heart.

[20:39] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, and we've all seen that. Whether it's dancing, singing, acting, you know, in a movie, on stage, whatever, right? And that's always so, so crushing. Because it's like, oh gosh, you know, like you have the talent, but it's just, it's not real, it's not honest, it's not, you know, grounded or whatever it is, right?

[20:56] Pedro Garza: Right, you know, so, uh, I think, and going back to the, you know, when I said I'm the mild ADHD, I think that's when my mind switches in watching, you know, in practice of it, but also in observance of it. If I understand that someone's saying something to me that they don't even believe, I think I almost involuntarily opt out of it, which is, you know, an issue that I think maybe I need to like keep working on like, okay, this conversation's not over. Somehow I've taken all I've gotten from it, but I've already left. Let me try and like stay in it. Um, but yeah, I think my brain and my heart are just naturally attracted to that vulnerability or that, uh, that honesty. And so if it's not presented to me right away, then it's, and it's, I, it's harder to make that connection for sure.

[21:50] Jamie DuMont: Speaking of practice and observance, we've chatted with Afra and Nika about their process in terms of learning their tracks and what rehearsal was like for them, and also keeping that fresh each night or each day. So now it's your turn. Start with your process of how did you learn your tracks? How many tracks do you cover?

[22:11] Pedro Garza: Five.

[22:12] Jamie DuMont: Five. Okay. And who do you cover?

[22:13] Pedro Garza: I cover Manny, Tony.

[22:15] Jamie DuMont: As mentioned.

[22:16] Pedro Garza: Yes. Nando, Jacob, and Yaman.

[22:20] Jamie DuMont: Wow. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, that doesn't sound easy. So tell us how did you do it? What did you do? How did you, how did you get into it?

[22:29] Pedro Garza: Yeah, I think thankfully a lot of the tracks are so, uh, separate in their features and everything. I, um, am able to divvy it up in my brain a little more. And like I said, if it's super interesting, if I’m drawn to it, like to, to, um, learn this, to learn "Bojangles" and to make it my own was an exciting task, you know, and, um, of a privilege to learn, um, "Beat Me Daddy" and that choreo, that iconic choreo, and just perform it with my own flair, you know, while staying, um, honest and true to Bob's work, um, has all been kind of the catalyst to really dive into each track and has allowed me to focus individually on each person much more. And of course, there's a lot of note taking, you know, the numbers for me, the logistics of everything is like the hardest part because I'm such a broad strokes big picture guy, so that the finite detail, the, uh, the details of everything, you know, depths and numbers and, and, and the precision of it all is a little tougher for me.

[23:29] Pedro Garza: And so that's where I know that, uh, my brain can often wander, and so I need to focus a lot more on those things, but it, uh, it was a lot of observance, a lot of watching and learning. I am a very visual learner, and so to consume in that way, and also just I'm also a very, um, I learn a lot through practice. Uh, and so a lot of the blocks that I was facing was like, I can't note anymore. I can't write anything else. Like it's not gonna be helpful. And so at any moment I could, I would just get on stage and just embody it, walk through it, because I knew that's where I would retain the most. What's cool about Fosse's work and what's often not said is that embodying the work doesn't mean copying the work.

And it doesn't mean doing it doesn't mean doing it the exact same way that, you know, Jacob Guzman does it, that Manny Herrera does it. It doesn't mean be a carbon copy of the person you're going on stage for. And they've been very honest about that with us too. And they're saying, you know, you're gonna go on and you're gonna have your show. And you don't have to be these people. And so to release that, uh, anxiety a bit was very, very helpful. Uh, for my process to then free up, uh, the permission to also mess up, the permission to, you know, get it wrong, the permission to miss a step. Because if I'm focused, if I'm oh hyper-focused on that, a lot of times it won't come out authentically for me. And it's like I'm gonna tell a story, even if it's like, even if this count was a little off.

[25:03] Jamie DuMont: Well, and I hope no dance captains are listening to this.

[25:07] Pedro Garza: Well, the reality is, I think if your count is off a little bit, right? Like we as audience members probably don't notice those or your knee turns in instead of out, or whatever it is. We as audience members don't normally notice that, right? Like you, there's a way you can, you get back on count, you turn your knee, whatever. You do what you need to do. So it's interesting because I've heard this with a lot of your company, your fellow company members, this same notion of this level of perfection. And yet it's so nice to hear you say, I need to let that go. Because what I'm hearing you say is I need to let that go so I can dance better, right? I need to get out of my head so that I can be authentic and dance the way I, isn't that interesting? I think that's so crazy.

[25:54] Pedro Garza: Um, and this is all to say, you know, I'm like, I'm not saying I'm over here changing pop books as choreo every show, of course, you know. And it's, it's so interesting to think that I need to release the, yeah, the perfectionism aspect. And I learned that, you know, I was a swing in Hamilton. I learned that the hard way there too. That if I'm trying to fit this standard that I haven't even set for myself, that I feel like people are setting for me, it's just the straightest route to unhappiness and unfulfillment. I think it really liberated me in a lot of ways to understand what was a successful show for me, or what is a successful, yeah. What's a successful show for me? When the pandemic hit, I was sort of at a loss for what I was gonna do.

I thought about saying that out loud, and I said, why don't I have anything to do? Why don't I know what to do? I'm an artist. I'm not, yeah, I'm contracted to be in Hamilton right now, but why don't I know what to do? I was kind of like surprised at myself. I was shocked, and I didn't really enjoy that. I didn't know what to do. And I think it shook me to my core that like my inherent artist, artistic self was in question. To be drawn organically to all these other mediums of art throughout the pandemic was the biggest blessing, and I'm afraid, but I now understand the privileged position to be saying that, that it was such a blessing for me to begin this journey of self-discovery, uh, about who Pedro is individually, what two artistic feet I can stand on on my own. And that in itself released a lot of that perfectionism. If my identity is so tied into the work that a step going wrong can derail my day, I think I'm, I may be in a, I may be in a dangerous zone.

[27:52] Pedro Garza: I think to tell it in an authentic and honest way, I've been saying those words, that's gonna be the, those are gonna be like the key words for the podcast, I guess, but to tell it in that way for me is the most successful show I can give. I hope you always question your art. I hope you always question your, um, your approach and your, your all of it, because I think listening to you talk, that's what makes you a special artist, right? That's a thing that motivates you. That's a thing that's always gonna keep it interesting and fresh. If you're always challenging yourself by questioning it, or whatever that experience is, it'll change. Obviously, you know, the more you work, the more this gets comfortable.

Or, you know, you mentioned imposter syndrome. I think that's a healthy thing to a certain extent, because I think it keeps you motivated and challenged to do better. And I think that's the mark of a true artist is somebody who's always trying to do better and not getting complacent and not getting comfortable. And that's where you're gonna find true fulfillment as you continue on this career, which hopefully will be very long, right? Because you're, you're, and the other thing I'm hearing you say was that this isn't really a career, it's who you are. Yes, it's how you pay your bills, it's how you get the washer and dryer in the apartment, all that stuff. I love this. We love that. We were talking about that earlier.

But the reality is you're an artist first and foremost, and no matter what you do with your life, that never goes away, right? Your art, your artistry could end up being something else. Maybe it's not dancing forever, but you're always an artist.

[29:25] Pedro Garza: Doesn't go away. Yeah, and I think I remember, um, a lot of people when I was on Hamilton were saying, like, okay, so you, you've done, you did Hamilton, like that's it. Retire. I was like, well done. I was like, okay, I'm in my mid-20s. But no. Yeah, but yeah, I'm done. Yeah, sure. Well, and then some I remember even someone within the company, um, was saying, you know, oh, well, it's just gonna all go downhill post-Hamilton. And I couldn't wrap my mind around that, to be honest with you.

[29:57] Pedro Garza: At least don't. I said, I know thanks. Never do that. Uh no. And I said, even if I were to go and chop wood at a, you know, in the forest, I think that would be if it's good for my mental health, then I consider it, you know, on the up. I see, you know, an upward movement. And it's interesting and you're feeding your soul, then why not? Yeah. I said despite whether it's, you know, a pay raise or a pay, a pay bump, or you know, whatever, whatever all that, you know, I couldn't care less. I think um I'd like to, I'd like to keep following that like artistic and moral compass.

[30:33] Jamie DuMont: Well, something else that you um put in your bio that I was very touched by was that you strive to be a symbol of Latino excellence in both life and your creative work, and that you dedicate your performances to all the young dreamers of color. So I'm wondering, I mean, I think that's pretty self-explanatory. Um, but if you could share a little bit why you wanted to share that in your bio, why you felt it was important to say that, and then also what you would say to other young performers of color who are, you know, trying to make it in this very difficult industry.

[31:01] Pedro Garza: I would be remiss to not acknowledge and honor the many people who have paved the path before me, or have even tried to journey on this path before me and have not reached even this level of success. I'm in debt to them. And I'm just thinking, because I also got to meet Chita Rivera yesterday and thank her in person. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Just everything she's done, that was an emotional moment for sure. To understand and respect this platform that I've, you know, however small it may be, um, this platform that I've come to, I want to continue on this path of honest work that I know can change lives. And I think there are many people who look like me who would do many things to be in the same spot.

And I think what I would say to so many people on the young dreamers and all the people that want to be doing something like this or anything creative, I think, is to really just embrace everything that you think right now is wrong about you, because and just cradle it and love it in a way that you think is completely, you know, wrong.

[32:24] I think, you know, like treating these things that you find yours that you find so uh awful, or people are telling you that are awful about yourself and just kind of reframing them in your in their brains and just knowing that they make them so unique uh because what is the most interesting to see as like amongst artists because everyone's really talented, everyone is so skilled to see someone who knows themselves and knows their story and knows the messages that they want to be telling, that's invaluable.

[32:59] Jamie DuMont: I love that you're so conscious of being uh a model in both your art and your life, because you know, there's that saying, you can't be what you can't see, you know, and just by your mere presence in this company, right? And everyone who, you know, comes from um a different, you know, background, whether you're black or Latino or whatever it is, right? Uh that is powerful. And just your presence is powerful, let alone the amazing work that you're all doing, which of course speaks for itself.

[33:28] Pedro Garza: To be doing what I'm doing on a stage is radical. It is a revolution in itself. For someone who is queer, for someone who is Mexican, to be doing that on a Broadway stage, it's like a rebellion and a movement all in one. It's insane.

[33:47] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, I was talking to um an older dancer who was working in the 70s and 80s about how amazing it is today that you could have an article about the LGBTQ members of the cast of DANCIN’, right? That would never have happened, maybe not even 10 years ago, right? That there are members in this company because you get to play yourselves too, which is also a very special thing, right? You're all playing yourselves on that stage. So that means you're called upon to bring yourselves. And yes, there are you know, queer members of this company, and you're living authentically as queer people on that stage. You're dancing as queer artists, and that's something that certainly there were queer people in the original company of DANCIN’, but they weren't able to bring their full selves because the society wasn't, you know, wasn't there.

[34:33] Pedro Garza: And you know, thankfully Bob Fosse's work is in many ways queer. Yes, yes, right, and and he and he gives license for people you know, you know, in a way that maybe isn't as um present, but it's it's embodied in in the movement itself, right? Right. So it's always been there, but now you guys get to to be who you are publicly, you know, and that's it's a revolution.

[34:57] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, I saw I saw um a comment that sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Actually, it was saying something like, uh, it says, you know, maybe it's I think it's just I think it was too woke with the queerness. I think you know, they had specific notes about or you know, about specific sections of the show. And they said, sometimes you just want to. It was a really weird comment, honestly. So sometimes you just want to see, you know, the sexy um female roles danced by females, or you know, like this and that, you know, dance, but yeah, dance by women, you know, and it's like I'm sure people disagree, and it's like, well, what is female choreography? What is male choreography?

[35:32] Pedro Garza: Yeah, it's it's divvied up in our show a little bit too because of tribute to the original. But can you can't you say a wrist roll and a hip roll are feminine? I'm sure. I mean, I guess, but uh that's not dictated that way within Fosse's choreography or his world as vocabulary at all. And I think it permits so much emotion and so much authenticity within dancers to you know, you see queer male dancers and that get to express in ways that a lot of choreographers, especially in these last, you know, years past, have not allowed. It's been very, you know, static and strong. And to explore the nuance and humanity of Fosse's work is truly the most exciting part of this process because it feels like I said, so human.

[36:27] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, without genderless. It's just story on bodies, which is how dance should be.

[36:34] Pedro Garza: Yeah, yeah. I think you said in that in that queer article that dance has no gender.

[36:39] Jamie DuMont: Yeah. And of course, of course it has no gender, right? I mean, like, but to have to say that, you know, it's because you're right, because people have such a set idea of this is what women do, this is what men do, that there are, you know, that it's that binary and it's that simple and it's that boxed off. And one of the joys I imagine of stepping into the world of Fosse is how he didn't necessarily think that way. Certainly he was living and working in the society that he was living and working in. And you know, a lot has happened since his death 35 years ago. But can you imagine just creating that type of choreography in that climate?

[37:14] Pedro Garza: Yes. And to be that bold and that brave in that way. No wonder it stuck out. It stuck out, right? Yeah, and it's lasted this long for a reason. I think it's and it's influential. The best type of art is that in and dance specifically, is that that breaks free of those molds because it it just gives you more play space.

[37:39] Jamie DuMont: Do you have a favorite song or moment or step in the show? It doesn't have to be a track you cover, it can be anything you want.

[37:46] Pedro Garza: Performing, I love to sing "Bojangles," but I love, love, love. Listening to Iwana say that first monologue in the show where she talks about the different instruments. And when she literally says the last three sentences, she says, the structure of life. She talks about all of these deep feelings and emotions and embodiments. And she says, the structure of life. She says it was such inhibition or release over the release of inhibition. And she never says it the same way twice.

[38:24] Jamie DuMont: No, no. I've seen the show so many times.

[38:26] Pedro Garza: Yeah. Every time she says it, it's like she's saying it for the first time. It's so truthful. I think she lets that emotion really take her take over. And I think she just, wherever she's at that day, she lets those words ring true in some way, whether it be bold, whether it be quiet, and she says it, and it's for me, such a beautiful, like all-knowing, encompassing and involving the audience breath to kind of enter this world, despite the fact that we've had two numbers already. But you know.

[39:01] Jamie DuMont: What I love about asking this question is that inevitably one of two things, or sometimes both things happen. You the the answer will reference somebody else's work, right? Not their own. And when we ask someone who sings in the show who has a featured solo moment, they reference that before a dance step. Which I think is so fascinating. It's so again, the thing about calling out somebody else's work, I think just proves what we have said over and over again about what an extraordinary company this is and how supportive you are, and how trusting and loving, and all of those things, because you're looking at everybody else's work and not your own. I mean, you're obviously you're looking at your own work.

We've talked about that at length, but you're really what you're really excited about is what everybody else is doing on that stage. And it just, it's it's I just it's very rare, and I'm gonna keep saying it as long as we're recording this podcast. And you you're a storyteller. You said that yourself at the start, right? That's your impulse. Your first impulse, right? Is to tell stories, whether it's song, dance, spoken word. So I love that you picked a moment that is a spoken moment, yeah, in the show.

[40:06] Pedro Garza: I think what's tough about like picking a dance step, it's like, well, that's part of a of a it's like picking what's your favorite word in this let in this sentence, you know. It's tough. I mean, you know, everyone could say the frug hands or the snake in the grass hands, you know. And I think those are iconic, and it's so interesting. Cause I wonder if did did Fosse ever want you to say, like, this step of yours, this one step of yours was so good. He's like, what about the 999,000 other ones? You know, it's so interesting to because I feel like I'd want someone to come say that this moved me, not this one. Maybe it was one word, but I feel like it and most often it's the entirety of the of the thing of the entire piece of the of the journey and the whole story. So yeah, so I think that's why it's often tough for me to boil it down to one. Favorites are hard, and Jim always pushes for lips.

[41:01] Jamie DuMont: I also feel like in and I, you know, I didn't know Bob Fosse, so I I can't actually honestly answer this. But um, my guess is if you asked him that question, it would be more about his place in the world. It would be more about his legacy as a choreographer than one specific dance. I would love to just ask him, like force him.

[41:21] Pedro Garza: Yeah, pick the frug.

[41:23] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, pick beat me, daddy, pick one, pick one.

[41:26] Pedro Garza: Yeah, oh yeah, buddy.

[41:27] Jamie DuMont: But it's unfair. Anyway, um, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. But before we go, you have actually answered this, but I'm gonna ask you one more time. What does Bob Fosse mean to you?

[41:39] Pedro Garza: Ooh. Fosse to means embracing my humanity in a way, and I'll I'll explain because I think Bob, again, never met the guy. Bob took his, what he felt were his faults and insecurities, and not only played on those, but centered his work on them. He dove so deeply into areas of his life that he felt the least secure about. And I was watching Moon Age Daydream, which was that David Bowie um documentary. It was that artistic documentary that came out. And Bowie said, when you get to that deep end and you feel your feet and you can't touch the ground, you just can't touch the ground anymore. Like that's where life really is. That's where you really start to live. And I think Fosse really lived and always strived to exist there.

And as an artist, that is very inspirational to me. And I would love to emulate that bravery in many senses. Nowadays. And for me, it's proven in the past time and time again that safety is not the best grounds for. I think for me, safety and um happiness don't always equate. I think I I produce a lot more um fulfilling our art and find a lot more happiness by navigating into those areas of unfamiliarity and uncomfortability. And I think Bob was a real champion of that in his own way, without even kind of knowing. So that's a long-winded version of what that means to me.

[43:55] Jamie DuMont: Me too.

[43:56] Pedro Garza: Me too.

[43:57] Jamie DuMont: Well, thank you so much.

[43:58] Pedro Garza: Thank you.

[44:01] Jamie DuMont: A dancing man.

[44:03] Pedro Garza: A dancing man.

[44:05] Jamie DuMont: A dancing man with footsteps on the sets. Bob Fosse's dancing is now on Broadway at the Music Box Theater. For tickets and more information, visit dancingBWay.com. DANCIN’ Man, a Fabulous Invalid Podcast, is a production of OM Etcetera and the Fabulous Invalid LLC, and a proud member of the Broadway Podcast Network. Special thanks to Civilian for hosting us and to our audio engineer, Kyle Moore. If you liked this episode, we've got over a hundred episodes of the Fabulous Invalid Podcast that you can check out, including a two-parter on the life, work, and legacy of Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon. You can find us online at the Fabulous Invalid.com and on social media at Fabulous Invalid, and on iTunes, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.