This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont.

[0:01] Rob Russo: I'm Rob Russo.

[0:02] Jennifer Samard: I'm Jennifer Samard.

[0:03] Jamie DuMont: And this is The Fabulous Invalid.

[0:20] Jamie DuMont: Hi guys.

[0:21] Rob Russo: Hi there.

[0:23] Jamie DuMont: Welcome to the almost end of the year.

[0:26] Rob Russo: Can you believe it?

[0:27] Jamie DuMont: I can.

[0:27] Rob Russo: I really can.

[0:28] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[0:28] Rob Russo: It's been a year.

[0:29] Jamie DuMont: It's been a year.

[0:30] Rob Russo: It's been a long two years.

[0:32] Jamie DuMont: Honestly, we all are like PTSD survivors, it seems like, with the last two years.

[0:38] Rob Russo: Like, you know.

[0:39] Jamie DuMont: America is one big plane crash survivor.

[0:42] Rob Russo: I don't want to offend.

[0:43] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, I don't know.

[0:44] Rob Russo: I don't want to actually offend people with actual PTSD or those who survived a plane crash, including myself.

[0:51] Jamie DuMont: But it's just, yeah, I would look forward to a day when we can all just go, "Oh my god," and shake as one.

[0:58] Rob Russo: I look forward to a day where I don't think about who is president.

[1:01] Jamie DuMont: Regardless of who the president is, right?

[1:03] Rob Russo: I mean, I feel like I went weeks without thinking about Barack Obama, you know.

[1:07] Jamie DuMont: And now it's like Donald Trump is invading my every day.

[1:10] Rob Russo: Well, let's not think about it. Let's think about Broadway.

[1:13] Jamie DuMont: Although I will say, Jennifer, you very slyly slipped in the plane crash survivor, which you actually are.

[1:20] Jennifer Samard: Oh yeah.

[1:20] Jamie DuMont: But maybe we should have our listeners Google that and see if they can hunt down what it is.

[1:26] Rob Russo: That's it.

[1:27] Jamie DuMont: And if you don't, yes, we will tell the story in the new year.

[1:31] Rob Russo: I love that.

[1:32] Jamie DuMont: Um, teaser.

[1:34] Rob Russo: So what's going on?

[1:35] Jamie DuMont: What's going on?

[1:37] Rob Russo: Some Broadway news.

[1:38] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[1:40] Rob Russo: Oh, am I saying it?

[1:41] Jamie DuMont: Okay.

[1:42] Rob Russo: So I want to get his next one.

[1:43] Jamie DuMont: We're not breaking it, but we're talking about.

[1:45] Rob Russo: Oh no, no, this was actually announced a while ago.

[1:47] Jamie DuMont: A couple of weeks ago.

[1:48] Rob Russo: But it's really incredible, and we're all so excited about it. I think we're still talking about it a month or so later, which is that high school junior Andrew Barth Feldman is taking over the role of Dear Evan Hansen from Taylor Trensch at the, what, the beginning of the year?

[2:03] Jamie DuMont: I think at the end of January.

[2:05] Rob Russo: End of January. And he's a high school junior playing a high school kid.

[2:10] Jamie DuMont: I think it was Paul Won Torik and Broadway.com. They tweeted something that made me laugh. Not Paul's tweet or Broadway.com's tweet, but in response, Taylor Trensch.

[2:20] Rob Russo: Taylor Trensch simply tweeted a little emoji of a balding old man.

[2:26] Jamie DuMont: Which he is anything but. But it's such, we call him TT at Hello Dolly. It's so TT's sense of humor. It's so funny.

[2:34] Rob Russo: Well, this kid, Andrew, is 16 years old. At least he was as of the time of the announcement.

[2:38] Jamie DuMont: That's a hard show to perform for, you know, I assume Taylor, who's in his 30s, right?

[2:47] Rob Russo: I can't imagine a 16-year-old doing that show.

[2:50] Jamie DuMont: I mean, I can't wait for it. I'm gonna have to get a ticket and go see.

[2:54] Rob Russo: Um, I assume it'll feel more authentic. I don't know. You know what's sad is I actually don't know how old TT is.

[2:56] Jamie DuMont: I don't know.

[3:01] Rob Russo: I don't have to look it up.

[3:03] Jamie DuMont: I think he's younger.

[3:05] Rob Russo: He's 52.

[3:06] Jamie DuMont: Based off that emoji, yeah, he might be, right?

[3:09] Rob Russo: Um, no, but I'm thrilled by it. And what's really cool is that this kid, I hate calling him this kid, Andrew. Like, I don't know him though, Mr. Feldman.

[3:21] Jamie DuMont: Mr. Feldman, uh, whatever we want to call him.

[3:21] Rob Russo: Yeah, no, that doesn't work either.

[3:21] Jamie DuMont: Mr. Feldman, uh, whatever we want to call him.

[3:25] Rob Russo: He won the Jimmy Award for like best actor last year.

[3:31] Jamie DuMont: Uh, so the Jimmy Awards, as I understand them, I actually haven't followed this very closely, but they're basically like the high school Tony Awards, right? They host this ceremony here in New York, and they get high school kids from all across the country who come and perform, and then they give out awards for, you know, achievement.

[3:50] Rob Russo: And he won, I think it was best actor last year, you know, best actor in a musical or something. And now, you know, a couple months later, he's gonna be in the lead in a Broadway show.

[4:01] Jamie DuMont: I know if I were, if I had been 16 and someone told me, okay, you're 16, you're gonna be the next, let's, you're the next Fantine on Broadway. You're taking over for Randy Graff. I mean, I, what if I, I mean, this kid must be so excited.

[4:17] Rob Russo: Right.

[4:18] Jamie DuMont: Oh, I can't even fathom.

[4:19] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[4:19] Jamie DuMont: Oh my god. I need to back up a little bit.

[4:21] Rob Russo: Yes.

[4:22] Jamie DuMont: Rob Russo, did you walk in knowing what the Jimmies were? Or did you look it up?

[4:25] Rob Russo: No, I know.

[4:26] Jamie DuMont: You knew.

[4:27] Rob Russo: Yeah, because I follow the news.

[4:28] Jamie DuMont: Do you know?

[4:29] Rob Russo: Say that like I don't.

[4:31] Jamie DuMont: How dare you?

[4:33] Rob Russo: Like I don't follow that.

[4:34] Jamie DuMont: I do like it when Rob gets in like a snap.

[4:37] Rob Russo: I could be sassy.

[4:38] Jennifer Samard: Did you know what the Jimmies were?

[4:40] Jennifer Samard: I did.

[4:41] Rob Russo: Okay.

[4:41] Jamie DuMont: All right. So I'm the fool.

[4:42] Rob Russo: Did I describe it correctly?

[4:43] Jennifer Samard: You make a, as far as I know, but let's fact check here before we go.

[4:48] Jamie DuMont: I never fact check.

[4:51] Rob Russo: You make an incredible mac and cheese, though. We just enjoyed that.

[4:54] Jamie DuMont: That's my gift to the world, I suppose.

[4:57] Rob Russo: Your mac and cheese.

[4:58] Jamie DuMont: My mac and cheese.

[4:59] Rob Russo: Your food is art.

[5:00] Jamie DuMont: Truly.

[5:01] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[5:01] Jamie DuMont: That's very sweet of you.

[5:02] Rob Russo: It's true.

[5:03] Jamie DuMont: The upside down pear cake.

[5:05] Rob Russo: What is it?

[5:05] Jamie DuMont: A pear?

[5:05] Rob Russo: It's upside down pear cake.

[5:06] Jamie DuMont: Upside down pear cake.

[5:08] Rob Russo: Beautiful salad, a carrot soup.

[5:10] Jamie DuMont: Well, we do, we usually, it's like a grain thing and tofu, and so I'm not sure. But it's winter now, so we're eating mac and cheese.

[5:14] Rob Russo: Mac and cheese.

[5:18] Jamie DuMont: Until June.

[5:20] Rob Russo: I hope you're all ready.

[5:21] Jamie DuMont: And I do not mean to BS you. Food is love, really. And I appreciate it every week. You're incredible.

[5:26] Rob Russo: Well, thank you.

[5:28] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[5:28] Rob Russo: That's very, very kind of you.

[5:29] Jamie DuMont: Although you did a moment ago ask me where the cheese plate was.

[5:33] Rob Russo: So no, well, every week we have an incredible cheese plate. And now I'm gonna be on your ass because you did say one week, we will always have a cheese plate.

[5:42] Jamie DuMont: I'm sorry. What’s the second word in mac and cheese?

[5:45] Rob Russo: Or the third word in mac and cheese?

[5:48] Jamie DuMont: Cheese.

[5:49] Rob Russo: Cheese.

[5:50] Jamie DuMont: There will always be cheese.

[5:51] Rob Russo: All right, you're right.

[5:52] Jamie DuMont: Erin, we're getting you a mic.

[5:54] Rob Russo: Aaron is so scared. But you know what I'm getting you for Christmas, Aaron? A microphone.

[5:57] Jamie DuMont: You know what? And also every podcast I listen to, about this time into the podcast, they end up like, you know, your sound engineer is really like, you know, Carlton the doorman, and you know, like it becomes the person that you never see that you really want to get to know.

[6:12] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[6:13] Jamie DuMont: Well, we're gonna get to know Aaron in 2019.

[6:18] Rob Russo: We're teasing a lot on this episode, aren't we?

[6:20] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[6:20] Rob Russo: Well, I was gonna say that, you know, Aaron, Aaron, it's speaking of cheese, Aaron had said to me a while ago. So is it cleaning up something to the fact of like I've never eaten so much cheese in my life. Um, so you're welcome.

[6:34] Jamie DuMont: I'm a cheese file, so it's not true for me. The cheese is good.

[6:38] Rob Russo: All right, well, we digress into a world of officers. Well, congratulations, Andrew Barth Feldman. We can't wait to see you on Broadway.

[6:44] Jamie DuMont: Yes, and I didn't mean to be flippant about the Jimmy Awards, truly. I think that's great.

[6:49] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[6:49] Jamie DuMont: I think in an age where children are given an award for waking up in the morning, the Jimmies actually is a great thing. And as we've discussed before, and is just as evident in the world, and they even say in the musical The Prom, arts education in high school is incredibly important. And so to recognize the students is, I think, a good thing, and I was just maybe being flippant.

[7:16] Rob Russo: No, you're sweet. And um, I'd like to do a PSA to my friend Taylor Trensch if he'd like to go shopping for some Gerther's originals.

[7:23] Jamie DuMont: That's right.

[7:23] Rob Russo: Some like Ponsnays and Depends.

[7:26] Jamie DuMont: Depends and maybe some dentures.

[7:28] Rob Russo: Um, we'll go together.

[7:29] Jamie DuMont: That's very good. So Taylor, if you're listening.

[7:31] Rob Russo: You'll help him up for the first time.

[7:32] Jamie DuMont: February first into the mall.

[7:34] Rob Russo: Right.

[7:35] Jamie DuMont: Okay, good. Well, on that note, I think.

[7:37] Rob Russo: It's a community, you know.

[7:38] Jamie DuMont: It takes a village.

[7:40] Rob Russo: It takes a village.

[7:40] Jamie DuMont: You know that, though.

[7:42] Rob Russo: I know that well.

[7:42] Jamie DuMont: Um, on that note, boy, we're a little poppy today.

[7:45] Rob Russo: We are.

[7:46] Jamie DuMont: It's as if we've been doing this all day.

[7:49] Rob Russo: What is that?

[7:50] Jamie DuMont: I mean, yeah, no, that's right. I wore those glasses once for I was FDR for Halloween.

[7:55] Rob Russo: But that's a different podcast.

[7:56] Jamie DuMont: That's a whole, that's another, that's 2019.

[7:58] Rob Russo: That's 2019.

[8:00] Jamie DuMont: All right, guys. I think I think we need a little Ashley Park in our life.

[8:03] Rob Russo: All right.

[8:04] Jamie DuMont: Let's do it.

[8:10] Jamie DuMont: As you all know, Ashley Park stars on Broadway as Gretchen Wieners in the smash hit Mean Girls, for which she was nominated for a Tony Award. Her marvelous portrayal of Music Diva Mui in K-pop earned her a Drama Desk nomination and won her the Lortel Award. Ashley has been on Broadway in The King and I, Mamma Mia, and Sunday in the Park with George. Welcome, Ashley.

[8:32] Ashley Park: What an intro.

[8:33] Jamie DuMont: Did I say Mui right?

[8:34] Ashley Park: Yeah, Mui.

[8:35] Jamie DuMont: Oh, good. I know. When I first got cast in it, I was like, what is this word? Mui. But now, like a lot of our castmates call me Ashwui.

[8:45] Ashley Park: Yeah, it's like my new nickname.

[8:46] Jamie DuMont: So did you know a lot about K-pop before you started in K-pop?

[8:50] Ashley Park: You know what? I didn't. I remember there were a couple groups that I like loved a lot when I was younger. Um, but I knew that it was such a, it was one of the first workshops I did when I came to the city. And I was originally in the girl group. Um, and so I was like with it along its journey and stuff like that.

[9:07] Jamie DuMont: I'm gonna lead in with the first question, which is normally just sort of fun things that we like to ask all of our guests. But before I do, I'm gonna tell these gentlemen a little bit about my observations of you.

[9:19] Ashley Park: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be able to do that.

[9:21] Jamie DuMont: No, no, no. She has to truly, she's truly fun story about you too.

[9:24] Ashley Park: Okay.

[9:26] Jamie DuMont: She's truly a light at the theater. She comes around with angel cards at the top of the show. And something, this is leading into my first question, but something that amazes me about you, because I'm actually quite um introverted. I regain my energy from alone time. And when I, my perception of you is that you're very extroverted, and I'm astounded at the schedule you seem able to keep with such energy and a buoyant light about you, and it's truly remarkable to look at. So that being said, how do you recharge your battery?

[9:53] Ashley Park: I think that, I think for a while, it's funny, I had a really hard time saying no to anybody in anything, and so that's something that I've learned and adapted better to. But I think I'm, that's so funny that you say that. I think that people have told me recently, wow, you really do recharge from being around people. Um, because I have close friends in the cast too who are like, you should take a day. Like, why don't you take a day? Or just like on a Monday, why don't you not do anything? And like I, you know, I said, you know, I take care of myself, but I really do love being around people so much, and especially at our show, like when I come from like a day of filming or like I'm so tired, but like that's one of the reasons I do angel cards because seeing everybody and like talking to them makes me so excited to be there again. So I think that I guess that, yeah, I guess that answers.

[10:44] Ashley Park: I don't know that. Oh, you know what's so funny is I learned them from my probably debut is Mamma Mia, and Judy McLean would go around in the Broadhurst theater, it's like all of these different floors, and she would go up to every floor of the theater and she would go, and it's like this baggie of um kind of intentions or directions for the day, and every of the angel cards say like light or purpose or um surrender or something like that. And I have everybody in the cast like take a card and you kind of apply that angel either personally or on stage for that day, um, which makes it fun when you're doing a show for like the 300th time, right? Or in Mamma Mia's case from the 300th year, you know.

[11:24] Ashley Park: So and for me, I started doing it. I love that example for I was like, what a leading lady like to interact with everybody on stage before you go on stage. Um, and for me, the King and I, my role in that as Tuptim, I truly don't interact with like everybody's side eyeing me, and like I'm such an outcast for most of the show, and then all of a sudden that to have to narrate and support a cast of dancers, 30 dancers in a ballet for 20 minutes, and I felt crazy not interacting with anybody and then having to have this huge scene with all of them. So I think that was my way of being like this is me as Ashley being like, How is your day? And like, oh, you got like patience as your like angel card, like what does that mean? You know, and then like getting to do the show, it like helped me a little bit.

[12:10] Jennifer Samard: I did that when I was Tuptim too.

[12:12] Ashley Park: Yeah, oh my god, that's my favorite so far. The other day, she was like, Ashley, I have to tell you something. That was horrible. I was doing summer stock in 1992, and in most summer stocks, you get cast in maybe three different shows, and usually, like you're really right for two of the three, which was the case with me. I was Lily in Annie and Maggie in Lend Me a Tenor. And then Tuptim in The King and I.

[12:30] Ashley Park: Oh my gosh, I love it so much. And I told I told I told that to Ashley. No, I told that to Ashley. She nearly fell down the stairs.

[12:38] Ashley Park: No, truly, I did. It was like during intermission or something, and I was like, oh my gosh, I need that picture now. Or doesn't Tuptim have that crazy high note at the end of "Lord and Master"?

[12:49] Jennifer Samard: Yeah, like the I mean, I've never seen a more cruel track in terms of like you come on stage, you say like a line, you bow, and then you sing the hardest aria that Rodgers and Hammerstein has written with the highest note that they've written, and then you're like, peace in the line. Then you go away.

[13:06] Ashley Park: Right, but like you just like go out like right out of the gates.

[14:03] Ashley Park: That note that happens is right before Anna enters, and how the way the Lincoln Center was built, like Kelly was always like right there in the like in downstairs in the wings, like watching, which was like always great. So I was like, okay, channel all the soprano that you have.

[14:21] Jennifer Samard: It's part cheerleader and part terror.

[14:25] Ashley Park: Yeah. Oh, she's the best, yeah. You're a beautiful singer and actress and comedian and dancer.

[14:32] Jennifer Samard: Wait, but I have to say, okay, so here's my story about you that me and so Erica Henningson, who's also one of the stars of Mean Girls, we were best friends from college. Um we've known each other for years, and we've been with each other through so many stages of our life now. Um watch disaster together before we knew Carrie and Jen. And we like, I mean, totally fangirl, you know, we were just like, um, and I remember watching you in that show and being like, because at the time I was still doing King and I, and for a while I couldn't be seen for anything comedic in the city. I was only drama drama, you know. Like nobody was everyone was like, oh, she's not funny or anything. And I remember watching that and be like that, like your performance in that was one of the pivotal, like, oh, that is the potential of what you can do with the character.

Like, that is like, here's a character that was, I'm sure she saw these lines, and then this is how she fleshed it out. And like the potential is massive. And that was like one of my comedic inspirations for Gretchen.

[15:32] Ashley Park: Thank you. I don't think I've ever gotten to articulate. We have to go out and drink because we haven't really socialized yet.

[15:39] Jennifer Samard: I know, because we've all been so busy.

[15:40] Ashley Park: Well, you've been doing your solo concert, and I've been doing this.

[15:43] Jennifer Samard: I did offer both of you about Camartini.

[15:45] Ashley Park: You did, I know.

[15:47] Jennifer Samard: You could be a good one. We have a show in like two hours. Can you imagine if we went there and like, let me tell you what you're proud of?

[15:53] Ashley Park: No, I've got it. Come here. Come here. Let's call Tina. What's she your angel card today?

[15:58] Jennifer Samard: Oh, it is good.

[16:01] Ashley Park: It's interesting that you say you couldn't be seen for anything comedic. Did that change with Sunday in the Park with George?

[16:07] Jennifer Samard: Because you were hilarious in a part that's not known for being hilarious, right? Celeste is not, no offense, a standout role, and you made it a big standout role, all with a giggle, all with a laugh.

[16:19] Ashley Park: I know. I will say, I mean, I still have one of the things I have framed in my apartment is a letter from Stephen Sondheim that said, um, thank you so much for or thank you for dead. Oh, thank you for your opening night gift and also for your giggles or something. And in the recording, I'll never forget that James was like, okay, can we just get wild takes of Ashley giggling?

[16:43] Ashley Park: Are you mighty unfeeling? I think that was the transition a little bit because I was like, still, it's still a revival, and it's still like not an, you know, an older revival, but it was still a revival and a period piece and everything. But um, it felt a lot more me than she the Celeste are a lot meaner than I think Gretchen is, though, even though she's a girl.

[17:05] Jennifer Samard: Yeah, I think they're so mean. They're like the mean gossips.

[17:07] Ashley Park: Yeah. They're what you would think that the mean girls would be, but yeah.

[17:11] Jennifer Samard: Well, do you think do you think Gretchen is actually? I mean, I know they're mean girls and by definition, but Gretchen doesn't seem that mean to me.

[17:18] Ashley Park: She's I think she seems lost. Or wanting all that acceptance and stuff you want. I mean, how do you what do you what do you think about Gretchen?

[17:26] Ashley Park: That's what I think is so great about the musical is that um in well, as soon as you put like singing and dancing to anything, whoever is doing that will is gonna be a lot more vulnerable than when they're just speaking words, you know. So I think that um that's what I love about it so much, and uh love playing the character every night is because like you think you're going into watching these three mean girls and immediately you're like, oh, they're just misunderstood or lost, as you said, and yeah.

[17:53] Jennifer Samard: I think for your character it happens right away because you've got this beautiful song that right out the gate sets up the fact that you're a lot more complicated than just this ditzy girl, right? Because you you've got this beautiful song where you talk about, you know, what's wrong with me.

[18:09] Ashley Park: Right. You're asking questions that you wouldn't necessarily think a vapid person would ask.

[18:14] Ashley Park: It was a tricky thing for a while. Um, I remember Casey Nicholaw during the rehearsals was took me aside and was like, Hey, this is gonna be a really, really tricky thing, and you're gonna feel really crazy about it for a while. And I did in the rehearsal room. I remember Carrie actually was kind of guiding me a little bit, because there was a lot of times where I'd go off and be like, Oh my gosh, I don't um because in the show it's all so fast and so funny and a lot of stuff from the movie. And in the rehearsal room, it felt crazy to all of a sudden do this like ballad, and it was such a slow and quiet moment, and I was like, Oh my god, I'm totally like drowning in it. I don't know what, you know, and Casey was like, You've got to trust it, you gotta trust that once we get in front of an audience, like it'll start it'll start to flesh out.

[18:59] Ashley Park: And I will say it's a testament to um Tina and Jeff and Nell too, because the the script that I came into the show with when I auditioned, almost every line is different, except for like the iPhone line leading into the song. Like they really develop the character in a way that is a lot that fit the song a lot more. Because originally Gretchen was a lot more manipulative. I think like when Ruppy for the song, she'd be like, Oh, what do you think of those two? Like, oh, they're my friends, but like, you know, a lot meaner, and it just the comedy in DC, it didn't land, it didn't fit in me. And so they really changed it, I think, to fit this this new character a little bit better.

[19:37] Jennifer Samard: Yeah. It's actually that's fascinating.

[19:39] Ashley Park: Yeah. And you're lucky, because that doesn't always happen.

[19:41] Jennifer Samard: Not at all.

[19:43] Ashley Park: Oh, not at all.

[19:43] Jennifer Samard: Katie, even the lead character, um, she says at the end, you are real, you know, yeah, character, which I love.

[19:51] Ashley Park: Yeah. Oh, I didn't think that, yeah. As an audience member, I feel so grateful because I I went down to DC to see Mean Girls.

[19:56] Jennifer Samard: Oh, oh my gosh, yeah.

[19:58] Ashley Park: Seeing it in DC to seeing it in Broadway, like you could write a book. It changed so much.

[20:01] Jennifer Samard: So much changed, and you could see all the seeds were there, right?

[20:06] Ashley Park: And it's it's a testament, as you said, to this creative team and to the incredible.

[20:11] Jennifer Samard: Yeah, well, and to be candid, in terms of Gretchen, since you saw it in DC, um, Gretchen used to be a lot more about boys, like who's she gonna end up? You know, she sings this beautiful song about like being insecure with girls, and then the whole rest of the show she's trying to get with a boy, and she ends up with a boy that she, you know, and for me, I we did that for all of DC, but I we had a lot of discussions where I was like, this doesn't feel right or current or accurate, you know, to this character. Like, you don't need the solution to a girl's problem right now is not to get the right guy, you know. And they really, and I don't think a lot of writers now, especially, you know, like we're always developing stuff like are receptive to that kind of stuff, and like Tina's like, You're right, this is not the teenage girl that is right now, this is not the solution right now. So that that really develops, yeah.

[20:54] Ashley Park: And all that work that you did really shows in the finished product in that you know, the show is just so tight and beautiful.

[21:02] Jennifer Samard: It's fun to do because it feels like that would be funny, yeah.

[21:05] Ashley Park: Yeah. How did you the three of you are really seem bonded on stage as the as the three girls? And what was that process like? Did it did it happen naturally in in DC? Was it immediate? Did it take time?

[21:22] Ashley Park: Oh, the three of us, well, it's funny, it's all, you know, the I'm talking about you, Kate.

[21:27] Jennifer Samard: And Taylor.

[21:29] Ashley Park: Yeah. Well, Taylor is she was in my class at school. So we've been friends since freshman year of college.

[21:33] Jennifer Samard: Oh, Taylor, I thought you said Erica was in your class at school.

[21:36] Ashley Park: No, so Erica, so Erica who plays Kate. There's four of us, right? But Erica is my best friend from school. She was a year under me. Taylor was in my class at school, also one of my best friends. She left after sophomore year.

[21:49] Ashley Park: So how this all like came to be, I mean, I was the last person cast in the show, you know. And I was doing, I think a show, I was doing Robin Hood, I was doing Hood down in Dallas when I got this audition. Um, but I knew that they'd been involved with it. And I knew that in like Eric, I still have like the screenshot from when Erica FaceTimed me to tell me she finally got Katie. And I was like, so I was just so excited for them. But to be honest, like it was never even in my like peripheral, you know, like when we hear about stuff, we're like, oh, I could be in that and whatever. I like never even thought I'd be considered for Mean Girls this show, you know. Um, because it was at a time too when I was like, I really to be candid with you guys, I felt like I was at a point where I was being brought in for so many things, and a lot of people wanted to see me for different things, but it I sometimes felt like I was just a checkbox, like we saw someone ethnic, we saw an Asian girl for it.

So we saw her. We're not actually considering her to be this role, this role, you know. So when I got this, I was like, I don't know if I can fly back from that, you know, and I was coming back for a different callback that I was more invested in, you know.

[22:48] Ashley Park: And um, but anyways, with the three of us, so it just they had no idea that we all knew each other so well. And I think that it's and also Taylor left after sophomore year and then went to do Bring It On, which she spent years doing with Kate.

[23:02] Rob Russo: Right.

[23:03] Ashley Park: And me and Kate now, she's like my show wife. We do everything, like uh we share a dressing room, we share on stage together. Like it's it was so easy because Kate also has a very um, she was like a big sister right away. So I came in, I came in, we took the photo that was the poster a week after I was cast, and they'd already, they knew Teenage F, they'd done a lab already. So I was like totally new, and so like they were so great about helping me and even when doing rehearsal for DC, when I it was truly felt like a put in because they had already done this entire lab and they had the show already, and I was doing K-pop that entire time, and so I was like, which was truly the most draining thing I've ever done, um, in a great way, but so they they guided so it was a lot of trust, and like throughout the entire this entire year, there's you know, there's been a lot of eyes on Mean Girls, of course, and especially like the mean girls and Mean Girls, and I think that if we didn't all like trust, like the on-stage stuff is the easy stuff, like we all trust each other so much, and like we're looking out for each other, and like, you know, with all with all the scenes and developing and stuff like that, that um it was just really great that we all felt very safe with each other.

[24:17] Rob Russo: Right.

[24:18] ♪ Musical number: "Meet the Plastics" — performed by Ashley Park ♪

[25:19] Jamie DuMont: Let me ask you. Um, if you were talking a little bit about a moment ago, you said, you know, you felt like you were being brought in to check a box, right? Like we've seen the we've seen the Asian actress. Um, which is a kind of a bigger, longer conversation.

[25:35] Ashley Park: Totally.

[25:36] Jamie DuMont: But um is there a role out there that you want to play that you don't wouldn't necessarily be thought of for?

[25:48] Ashley Park: Huh. You know what's great is that I think that my answer now is different than it was a year ago. I really do think that, you know, and I don't know what that's in part to, but I I do feel like there's if I wanted to play something, like I could I could be a truer part of the conversation than I than I would have been, or someone who looks like me would have been. Um I think that I'm more than in terms of how I look. I'm really interested in playing like um a female character in a musical that isn't just the girlfriend or isn't just you know, like I think that that's that's something that the musical theater canon's kind of like playing with right now in terms of the rhetoric or vernacular of like a female, like strong female character in a show.

[26:37] Jennifer Samard: Um, you've played a lot of strong. I mean, Tuptim is a very strong woman.

[26:43] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[26:43] Jennifer Samard: When you look at the sort of badass things that she does.

[26:46] Ashley Park: It's true, yeah.

[26:47] Jennifer Samard: If you especially if you look at the ballet, the small house of Uncle Thomas, I mean, she is really throwing it up in in their faces.

[26:55] Ashley Park: Right.

[26:56] Jennifer Samard: All the things she thinks that's wrong with the world she lives in.

[26:59] Ashley Park: Right.

[27:00] Jennifer Samard: And that's that's that to me, that's a badass.

[27:02] Ashley Park: I'll tell you what my answer would have been a couple of years ago, like for sure. My favorite musical of all time is Wicked. And I realized very quickly that I'm definitely Glinda and not an Elphaba, even though like what I would be seen for in the room is an Elphaba, you know. And so I think that's something that for sure I wouldn't have been I wouldn't be considered for, you know, that I'd be like, I'd love that role. But I think that I'm really interested in in terms of musicals, like originating roles now, too.

[27:27] Jamie DuMont: Well, that leads me to my other question, which is because you've you've done revivals and you've done a new musical.

[27:32] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[27:33] Jamie DuMont: So I think you just answered it, which is which are you preferring at the moment.

[27:37] Ashley Park: Right. Well, and in in part, and I've said this to a lot of people when they're like, oh my god, it's your friend, like you're originating, like, how's that feel? And I said, I think that this process has felt a lot like a revival because we have this Mean Girls movie that is so iconic from the 2000s that like people I people are still coming in with the perception of what the character is or what should be, and it was about us. Like, I haven't watched the movie since I was cast, you know, like us putting our own stamp on it and like going back to the pa the the words on the paper and being like, who is this character? What's her spine, and how can I make that feel good on me? Like, if it's very that's exactly what my process was for any revival that I've done.

[28:15] Rob Russo: Yeah. Are you getting any kind of fan feedback in terms of like your Gretchen not being the Gretchen that they expect from the movie?

[28:24] Ashley Park: Yeah, I expected, and I expected a lot of I I guess we all kind of expected negative feedback just because we were like very realistic in terms of like, oh, you didn't have this line or you didn't have that line, you know. But I think luckily so, at least what I've heard is like it's just so many people connect so much with the song "What's Wrong With Me," and like really connect with the character of Gretchen and stuff like that. So I've I like a lot of the fans have been really, really lovely in that way. And it always it always means a lot to me in that way that they would feel that, yeah.

[28:56] Rob Russo: It's a beautiful song.

[28:57] Jamie DuMont: We actually put it on the show already.

[28:59] Ashley Park: Oh, really?

[29:00] Rob Russo: We um I'm trying to remember what the context was, but we met with Jocelyn Bioh, the playwright of uh School Girls. We were talking about Mean Girls versus School Girls, and uh Jamie had put in a snippet of it.

[29:10] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, it was my first, that's the first thing I'd ever heard. I remember like getting, you know, the plunk out of for the audition or whatever, and sitting in this room in Dallas and being like, as soon as I read the lyrics and whatever, I was like, oh, I get her right away.

[29:24] ♪ Musical number ♪

[30:20] Ashley Park: I think all of us feel that way all the time. But especially for me, like growing up, and it was never like a question. But for me, uh, to be, you know, real, I if I was ever in a room with a white girl, I was always gonna be second, you know. Like, that's just how I I was like kind of wired to work, and I don't feel that way anymore. But you know, um, so "What's Wrong With Me?" I was like, oh, I just totally get what she, you know, I totally understand where she is in high school, but I also like it's I've never had a song where like I really even when I'm not feeling well, like I I at the I always enjoy singing it every night. Like I've never had a song in a musical where like I truly feel that every person in the audience is really listening at some point in the time, you know what I mean, to connect in that way, and like I'm so glad that that was like the core of the character that they held on to.

[31:10] Rob Russo: Yeah, that's a gift, right?

[31:12] Ashley Park: And they and they added that for your character as well. Like so we get to sing a mini duet, yeah.

[31:18] Rob Russo: The reprise, I guess you'd call it.

[31:20] Ashley Park: No, it is, yeah, because that I they're like, oh, that is one of the themes too. Is like it's an ever, it's this circle that like.

[31:27] Rob Russo: Well, to your point, everyone can relate to it and see themselves in it. So Miss Sad Mrs. George, who doesn't know how to parent her daughter?

[31:35] Ashley Park: Right.

[31:36] Rob Russo: Has a moment where she sings it and then you join in.

[31:38] Ashley Park: Well, my thing is I think they're always wondering, they're like, Oh, I guess we don't really wrap up all the characters in a bow, and I was like, no, that is that's Gretchen's ending right there when she sings that because you're like, what happens to Gretchen? She grows up to become Mrs. George. I think, you know, that kind of thing.

[31:52] Rob Russo: And you said when you were growing up. So what what is the greatest lesson you've learned from your family or a family member?

[32:05] Ashley Park: Oh, well, they've been actually in, you know, in recounting what your first question, which was how do you recharge so much? Why do you, you know, especially with people? I mean, I've been very open about like my cancer experience, and we're in high when my high school experience wasn't in a cafeteria. I was like going through rounds of chemo. And like my diagnosis or my protocol was that I would I was alone in a room for like eight months, like totally isolated. So I think that since then I so that's why I do theater, is because you're constantly around people. So I like totally thrive in that energy and being around people because I was so deprived of that. And I love collaborating and interacting.

And I think that the greatest gift has been like after that. My parents are just, I mean, my parents, my family, everyone is just so supportive, and they um they've never been stage parents, you know. They've they've been just very supportive and lovely, and they always have like faith in me, but they always want to make sure I'm healthy, you know. My favorite my dad was like, he's like when he saw Mean Girls for the first time in DC, he was like, was that chicken thing in the movie? That was funny. And I was like, What like the caca? Like that thing, but I was like, is it a chicken? And also, like, no, it wasn't in the movie.

[33:19] Rob Russo: It's a bird of prey, I would say.

[33:21] Ashley Park: I know, right? What animal are you making? Do you like? I think of like a very, I think if I was an animal, I'd be like a very like either my my patronus is a dolphin. But like a very like exotic and very excited bird, you know. Um, so I think that is what I'm going for. Sometimes, I mean, sometimes when I've been like a little under the weather, it's like a pigeon. Like, yeah.

[33:42] Jamie DuMont: Just choking on pollution, like George Carlin used to say.

[33:47] Rob Russo: And you're definitely your patronus, you're definitely House Hufflepuff. We've discussed this.

[33:50] Ashley Park: Um yes. Huffle Fucking.

[33:51] Rob Russo: I'm Gryffindor.

[33:52] Ashley Park: Sorry.

[33:53] Rob Russo: You are a Gryffindor.

[33:54] Ashley Park: Slytherin rising, but Gryffindor.

[33:56] Jamie DuMont: I know, I don't know what my rising is. Jennifer had to explain what all of that meant to me earlier.

[34:03] Rob Russo: Um, but you know, I do, I do I do understand certain things in popular culture.

[34:08] Jamie DuMont: Okay, but just not that one. You're a Tales of the City person.

[34:11] Ashley Park: I am a Tales of the City person.

[34:13] Jamie DuMont: Are we allowed to mention uh Tales of the City?

[34:16] Ashley Park: Oh, definitely.

[34:17] Jamie DuMont: Okay, great.

[34:18] Ashley Park: Yeah, it's all the nuts.

[34:20] Rob Russo: Are you are you playing uh Didi's daughter? Who are you playing?

[34:21] Ashley Park: No, originally they had wanted Didi doesn't have kids in this, but you know how like she has kids with they originally wanted that to be the case, but I think that they had a hard time.

[34:32] Ashley Park: The timing is all a little bit fudge, right? Because it's been like 20 something years or whatever.

[34:34] Ashley Park: Yeah, and they're marrying a few books. So I'm now living, I I'm just I'm one of the residents of the new Barbary Lane.

[34:41] Ashley Park: So like there's this whole like beautiful thing of like the old generation kind of mixed with the new generation of residents there, and like Ellen Page is playing Shauna, who is the baby Connie's baby that was, you know.

[34:53] Jamie DuMont: Um, so we're really close friends.

[34:54] Ashley Park: You were talking to an aficionado.

[34:57] Jamie DuMont: That's amazing, yeah.

[34:58] Ashley Park: Um, so yeah, so I'm me and my brother live in the pen shack on the roof.

[35:02] Rob Russo: Oh, you live in Ryan's old apartment.

[35:04] Ashley Park: Yeah, so what's funny is that they origin you really know how to do that.

[35:08] Jamie DuMont: That's amazing.

[35:09] Ashley Park: But we had I moved to San Francisco in 1987 thinking I was Marianne Singleton, and it turns out I'm Didi Day. So that was my journey.

[35:17] Jamie DuMont: With that's true.

[35:25] Ashley Park: Oh, that's amazing.

[35:26] Jamie DuMont: Hey, I'd rather be Deity.

[35:27] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[35:27] Jamie DuMont: Um Yeah, no, it's so it's yeah.

[35:30] Ashley Park: So what's funny is we were supposed to shoot all of our things in uh because it's on the roof, like as an exterior in San Francisco, but because they were like decided to build it instead.

[35:41] Ashley Park: But so all the stuff that we did in our pen shack was in the first episode.

[35:45] Ashley Park: So on Tuesday, we filmed three scenes from the first episode and then three scenes from the last episode because it was all in that location.

[35:51] Jamie DuMont: So we were like, what's going on?

[35:53] Jamie DuMont: Like speaking of mean girls, you guys have uh curtain to make, so I wanna I want to get you to your theater um on time.

[36:11] Jamie DuMont: But we always ask uh every guest this this question. So Ashley, what was that show that you saw when you were little that did it for you that gave you the theater bug?

[36:23] Ashley Park: Was there a particular show?

[36:24] Ashley Park: Oh gosh. I didn't I actually never saw a Broadway show until I was about to be a senior in high school.

[36:31] Ashley Park: Um that was my make-a-wish was to come to New York for the first time and watch a show.

[36:37] Jamie DuMont: What was the show you saw?

[36:38] Ashley Park: Well, I was very lucky in that um the Make a Wish Foundation in my region, like the godmother, like the head of it was um the mother of someone I did theater with.

[36:49] Ashley Park: So she like took very good care of us. And we saw Lion King, Wicked, Spring Awakening, and Chorus Line.

[36:56] Jamie DuMont: Oh wow.

[36:57] Ashley Park: Oh my god, I will never forget too. Um she's gonna kill me.

[37:01] Ashley Park: My sister, I remember us asked. I was doing some like regional show, and we were like, Do you think like Audrey, do you think you could come to Broadway or whatever?

[37:08] Ashley Park: And she goes, Oh well, Chorus Line did, so you definitely can. Like she has no idea.

[37:13] Ashley Park: She also was like, when I first got Mean Girls, I was like, Audrey, you're going to China for a you can't come back. Like, you're not you're gonna miss Mean Girls, because at the time we were only doing a DC, and she was like, Oh, tape it.

[37:24] Ashley Park: Anyways, what show in fact? I think, like, honestly, like I remember watching Wicked when I was like in Detroit or something like that, or like watching musicals at like the high school, Pioneer High School that I eventually did shows at, and being like, Yeah, loving it.

[37:42] Ashley Park: I mean, I grew up at like my one of my favorite movies was movies was the Sound of Music. So I think a lot of Julie Andrews like really affected me.

[37:50] Ashley Park: It was the movie musicals that like I grew up with, and honestly, like the age in the 90s, like the Disney movies, like animated Disney movies. I consider those like the musicals too.

[38:00] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[38:01] Rob Russo: Many of them have become we had we had a guest, we had a guest recently who said it was a film.

[38:05] Ashley Park: Yeah, it was his inspiration.

[38:07] Ashley Park: I really yeah, I really think it was like the sound of music. I really think it was the yeah, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin.

[38:14] Ashley Park: Oh my god, I loved Aladdin and Samba. I had a big crush on Simba.

[38:17] Ashley Park: And it like it was a it was a big conversation. My mother was like, It's a lion, like you can't have a crush on him, but Aladdin was gonna have a crush on.

[38:29] Ashley Park: And then Mulan came out, and I was like, oh, mind blown, Pocohannes, all of those.

[38:32] Ashley Park: So I really think it was the Disney movies.

[38:34] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, well, that's they're very that that's I think one of the great things of those movies is that they're inspiring to a lot of people in many different ways, right?

[38:42] Ashley Park: Right.

[38:42] Ashley Park: It's it's somebody seeing Mulan and saying I can be that person, or somebody seeing whatever it is.

[38:48] Ashley Park: Well, I think that's the coolest part about doing Gretchen is that it's not only you know, little Asian girls who say that you know, like a lot of people are inspired just by like the character that has been developed or whatever, but I know like a lot of um I I would have loved to have a you know someone who looks like me play Gretchen when I was like growing up and be like, oh, I can do that, you know, and so it's it's a very like weird and odd experience to like kind of be on the other end of it all.

[39:16] Ashley Park: To be the one doing that for thousands and thousands of people that will come.

[39:20] Jamie DuMont: And we talk politics a lot on this podcast, but um whether it's politics or theater or any walk of life, representation matters.

[39:28] Ashley Park: This is why it matters, you know.

[39:29] Jamie DuMont: And I I think we've said this before, I'm sorry for repeating it. But when Janine Chisori wrote Ring of Keys, one of the things she was saying is that you know, little girls need to see something to believe that they can become it.

[39:40] Ashley Park: Right, you know, and um yeah, just to run out of the way.

[39:46] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, yeah.

[39:47] Ashley Park: Exactly.

[39:47] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[39:48] Ashley Park: I'm so excited for like the little Asian and black and Hispanic Reginas and Karen's and Katie's too.

[39:54] Jamie DuMont: And that's one thing. Let's can we just applaud Tina Fey and Co. for how I think our cast the casting is really diverse.

[40:01] Ashley Park: We have a really colorful stage.

[40:02] Jamie DuMont: Oh, yeah.

[40:03] Ashley Park: And that and you know, that's not the case everywhere. So more of that, please.

[40:06] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, yeah, and your kids, your your your company, they look like look like America.

[40:12] Ashley Park: They look like America.

[40:12] Jamie DuMont: Look like high school kids, and I don't just mean age-wise, but they just look like what America has to be able to do.

[40:17] Ashley Park: And different body types, too.

[40:19] Jamie DuMont: You know, that's a huge thing.

[40:21] Ashley Park: The body types as well. And like, I love that, and she's also written alternative lines for when different people go, you know, because there are very there's sometimes very specific lines in terms of like how people look and stuff like that.

[40:32] Ashley Park: And so she's written some alternative lines for when there's like a black Regina or like something like that.

[40:36] Jamie DuMont: Well, one of the things when I saw the show that that really made me so happy was not only that, you know, the show is so incredible and so great, but that it will be licensed, and high schools across America will be doing Mean Girls someday.

[40:49] Jamie DuMont: And you know, it's like the perennial problem of a high school. Like you've got Tevia, you've got, you know, all these male characters driving these musicals, and you've got a pool of really talented, interested, excited young women who want to perform.

[41:03] Jamie DuMont: And here in Mean Girls, right, six principal characters are females.

[41:07] Ashley Park: What name another musical where that is the case?

[41:09] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, other than like six little women.

[41:12] Ashley Park: We are we are so lucky.

[41:14] Jamie DuMont: We're so lucky.

[41:15] Jamie DuMont: Alrighty. We've got to get you to the theater.

[41:16] Ashley Park: Yeah, we'll get you to the theater.

[41:17] Jamie DuMont: Thank you for coming down and we'll gotta chowing down now.

[41:22] Ashley Park: Love you.

[41:36] Rob Russo: Rob here with you may be wondering. During our conversation with Ashley, she mentioned that fellow Mean Girl Taylor Louderman, aka Regina George, has been a friend of hers since freshman year of college, and that Erica Henigkson, aka Kitty Heron, her best friend, was a year under her in college.

[41:53] Rob Russo: So you may be wondering wait, did the entire cast of Mean Girls go to college together? Or better yet, does everyone on Broadway go to the same school?

[42:02] Rob Russo: Sometimes it does feel that way, and for a very good reason. Not every college or university has an acting or musical theater program, but among the ones that do, there's come to be a handful that are highly competitive standout programs for training the most talented performers in the industry.

[42:17] Rob Russo: The University of Michigan, where Ashley, Taylor, and Erica received their training, is routinely ranked as having one of the very best musical theater programs in the country.

[42:25] Rob Russo: Michigan alumni include actors E. Tie Benson, Gavin Creel, Darren Chris, Hunter Foster, Alex Gemini, David Alan Greer, James Earl Jones, Andrew and Celia Keenan Bolger, Christine Loti, Lucy Liu, Douglas Sills, and Jennifer Laura Thompson, to name a few.

[42:40] Rob Russo: And Michigan's track record is not limited to just performers. Other alumni include playwright Arthur Miller, you've probably heard of him. Director Jack O'Brien, producer Jeffrey Seller, composer Jeff Marks, the songwriting duo Pasic and Paul, and costume designer Martin Pacladinez.

[42:55] Rob Russo: Back in September, Playbill did a survey of where all the actors later to perform on Broadway in the 2018-2019 season went to college. Their findings showed that by a long shot, New York University, or NYU, is the most represented.

[43:09] Rob Russo: But coming in second was the University of Michigan. Other prominent schools include the University of Cincinnati's College Conservatory of Music, or CCM. That's where fellow Mean Girls cast member Kyle Selig went, and Fabulous Invalid co-host Leslie Critzer went.

[43:24] Rob Russo: There was also the American Musical and Dramatic Academy, Carnegie Mellon University, Boston Conservatory, Yale, the University of North Carolina School of the Arts, and Juilliard.

[43:33] Rob Russo: Well, those are all schools that are well known for their programs. I was a bit surprised to learn that Oklahoma City University and Point Park University in Pittsburgh came in 8th and 9th, training nearly 40 current Broadway performers between them, including Kelly O'Hara.

[43:48] Rob Russo: You may be wondering, sounds like there might be a correlation causation question here. Does going to NYU or the University of Michigan mean you'll get cast in a Broadway show? Of course not.

[43:57] Rob Russo: But just like every Supreme Court justice went to Harvard or Yale, America's most competitive law schools, it shouldn't be surprising that alumni of the most competitive arts programs in the country happen to supply the largest number of performers on America's most competitive stages.

[44:11] Rob Russo: Keep in mind though, many legends like Ethel Merman, Bernadette Peters, Donna Murphy, Bette Midler, and even the Fabulous Invalid's own Jennifer Simard, all of whom coincidentally share a Hello Dolly connection, either never attended or graduated from college.

[44:25] Rob Russo: Next time you're at the theater, take a look in your playbill and see if you can spot the Michigan alumni on stage. Chances are it won't be hard.