This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ramin Karimloo: Hi folks. In this episode, I was truly excited to finally get some time to hang with English actor, Earl Carpenter.

[0:12] Ramin Karimloo: I met Earl years ago in a workshop of Les Miserables, and since then our friendship has grown.

[0:17] Ramin Karimloo: Initially, it was the jobs that would bring us together, and then we just wanted to hang.

[0:22] Ramin Karimloo: Earl has had a prolific stage career, and his credits are endless. He has traveled and performed around the world.

[0:29] Ramin Karimloo: Earl was the Phantom of the Opera when I stepped into that show for the first time as Raoul.

[0:34] Ramin Karimloo: He's one of our finest actors, and I've looked up to Earl for a long time.

[0:38] Ramin Karimloo: He's constantly looking at creative outlets and has produced many concerts and shows as well.

[0:44] Ramin Karimloo: Earl has had many career highlights, but today, Earl was candid in his conversation.

[0:51] Ramin Karimloo: He talked about rediscovering joy and gratitude, dealing with mental health while he navigates through this new transition in his life, learning to adapt, to grow, to accept, perhaps even to atone.

[1:07] Ramin Karimloo: All this with a career that spans over 20 years. I was really moved by his candor.

[1:15] Ramin Karimloo: Okay, that's recording. That's recording.

[1:19] Ramin Karimloo: Okay, do you know what you're doing?

[1:21] Earl Carpenter: Honestly, I've got to press these buttons.

[1:23] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah?

[1:24] Earl Carpenter: Let's do a selfie.

[1:25] Ramin Karimloo: The other camera.

[1:26] Earl Carpenter: Oh, yeah. I broke that side.

[1:28] Ramin Karimloo: This is going really well.

[1:30] Earl Carpenter: I know. I might even leave this bit in.

[1:32] Ramin Karimloo: What are we looking at?

[1:34] Earl Carpenter: I don't know. I turned the phone off. I can't take a selfie anymore.

[1:39] Earl Carpenter: Day 37.

[1:42] Ramin Karimloo: Ladies and gentlemen, he's already laughing.

[1:47] Ramin Karimloo: One of my favorite people on and off stage, Earl Carpenter.

[1:51] Earl Carpenter: Hello, Ramin Karimloo.

[1:52] Ramin Karimloo: How are you, bud?

[1:53] Earl Carpenter: I'm good. This is crazy. What are you doing? What is this?

[1:55] Ramin Karimloo: That's what I love. You walked up. What is this?

[1:57] Earl Carpenter: What is it? What are you doing?

[1:58] Ramin Karimloo: Well, it's called The Hang. It's a podcast that I'm already dropping things.

[2:05] Earl Carpenter: Sorry.

[2:07] Ramin Karimloo: Broadway Podcast Network and Sony kind of supported me to do and thought it'd be a good idea that I do.

[2:14] Ramin Karimloo: I still don't know if it's a good idea that I do this.

[2:17] Ramin Karimloo: However, what made me want to do it because, look, you know how life gets busy.

[2:23] Ramin Karimloo: We don't live near each other.

[2:25] Ramin Karimloo: So this gives us a chance to hang and catch up.

[2:29] Earl Carpenter: I get it.

[2:30] Ramin Karimloo: Oddly, it's on mic, but what I've noticed from the couple I've done so far, things we get to talk about, like if we got together normally, we would have a great time and talk, but we wouldn't talk about necessarily things we're about to talk about.

[2:44] Earl Carpenter: No, I get that. And I think that's true for everybody, though, isn't it?

[2:47] Ramin Karimloo: And it gives me a chance, and you're not going to like hearing this, and I'm sure my previous guests won't. I'm still a fan of my friends. So now I can be a fan.

[2:57] Earl Carpenter: I'm smiling at this point of view. Obviously, people can't see that, but I am smiling.

[3:03] Ramin Karimloo: It gives me a chance to be the fan.

[3:04] Earl Carpenter: So that's interesting because it's – so I'm going through this very weird chapter, and one of those things is about I keep having little Earl, you know, young Earl, keeps kind of looking in on where I am for whatever reason.

[3:17] Earl Carpenter: This has been happening in the last year, and just having moments of reality about where I am and what I've done, whereas there have been – over the last three years or so, you tend to get the impression that what I've done doesn't mean anything.

[3:38] Earl Carpenter: It means nothing. It has no value. It has no worth. But whether it's a self-conscious thing, but I've had little Earl kind of looking in on what I'm doing, and he wouldn't have ever believed that I have done the things that I've been done – been done? Hello?

[3:56] Earl Carpenter: Queen's English, please. Thank you.

[3:59] Earl Carpenter: Over the last 10 years or so, you know, and that's, you know, working with you on Toronto and Broadway, and little Earl would never have kind of imagined that.

[4:09] Earl Carpenter: And I had another moment like this the other day. We were doing the kind of meet and greet for the Pirate Queen that we've just done at the Coliseum, and Claude-Michel Schoenberg was there, and we had this kind of big circle, everyone saying their names and, you know, what they had for tea.

[4:26] Earl Carpenter: And Claude-Michel was like, well, you know, it's so nice to see so many people. I don't know anyone here. Oh, I know Earl.

[4:33] Earl Carpenter: And all of a sudden, I like had this massive smile going, Claude-Michel Schoenberg, I don't know anyone. Oh, but I know Earl.

[4:41] Earl Carpenter: And it was just bizarre, and it's so weird. And then all of a sudden, you kind of go, that's a lovely little moment, and I'll hang on to that. You know, and I don't know what that's about.

[4:49] Earl Carpenter: I don't know where that's come from. But it seems to be getting me through things, whereas before, you know, especially when you're following social media, of course, everyone's, you know, nine times out of ten giving the impression that life is amazing and it's going so well.

[5:04] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[5:05] Earl Carpenter: Whereas actually, and I think if I'm right in saying this is also another kind of prong of your, what you're doing now, the fact that we can be honest and we can chat about things that are important.

[5:20] Earl Carpenter: And things that people don't think that maybe that we experience or go through or have to deal with.

[5:26] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[5:27] Earl Carpenter: And when I saw one of your tweets, it must have been a year or so ago. It struck a chord in my heart because, Earl, you have one of the most prolific CVs of friends that I know.

[5:42] Ramin Karimloo: I hope to have even half the career you've had. Do you know what I mean? Or have and are continuing to add to it.

[5:47] Earl Carpenter: Isn't that bizarre? And I think you're okay with me talking about, because you were hashtagging mental health awareness. It's a massive, massive importance.

[5:58] Ramin Karimloo: I texted you right away. I'm like, I'm just checking in to let you know I love you.

[6:01] Earl Carpenter: And I was appreciated.

[6:04] Ramin Karimloo: What was going on?

[6:06] Earl Carpenter: Gosh, I think it was, I mean, a lot of it was to do with having come to the what I considered a chapter with a very beloved producer, a friend of ours, Mr. Cameron McIntosh.

[6:18] Earl Carpenter: And having come to the end of what I believed to be it, it was really weird. Having finished the Les Miserables in Manila and Singapore and how that kind of wrapped up and concluded for me.

[6:33] Earl Carpenter: I honestly thought that that was it. That was my career done and over. And there was a passage of time as well when you realize that my custodianship of all those roles that I've been fortunate enough to have over the years is done.

[6:48] Earl Carpenter: It's done and dusted. And I wasn't ready or prepared for that. And it reminded me of Michael McCarthy, who was my Javert when I first joined Les Mis.

[6:59] Ramin Karimloo: Really?

[7:00] Earl Carpenter: Yeah. And again, you know, a gorgeous man, talented man. You realize, gosh, I've actually what must have Michael have felt when, you know, other people were then taking over the role of Javert.

[7:17] Earl Carpenter: And I kind of was in that place where I, I suppose, you know, for whatever I was doing, I was kind of favored to play Javert for the amount of times I had. And then all of a sudden.

[7:31] Earl Carpenter: Your time is done and you're circumnavigated to the next person whose responsibility it is. And I wasn't ready for that.

[7:41] Earl Carpenter: I was not ready for the fact that and obviously being the age I'm 50 this year and I wasn't ready for that either. And it's just all these things that you think, gosh, I wish theater school had told me about all these things to look out for.

[7:54] Earl Carpenter: You know, when you get older, it'll bite you. You know, when you feel that your careers are over, that'll be. And it's just it was just one thing after another. And just not having the tools to be able to understand it.

[8:09] Earl Carpenter: And I think at that time there was a podcast that I did in the UK for a company called Industry Minds. And it was the first time I'd actually spoken about all the things that I had been made aware of or the things that I just didn't anticipate that I would have to be dealing with.

[8:29] Earl Carpenter: You know, in the beginning of last year, I had to find a normal, proper job. And, you know, and I wasn't ready for that.

[8:34] Earl Carpenter: You know, I'd been so lucky touchwood for 23 years of working solidly back to back, contract to contract. And then all of a sudden, because of this chapter that I'm in, this kind of transition, let's call it, I had to find a normal job.

[8:53] Earl Carpenter: And that was so weird. And it was debilitating, mentally debilitating, because you thought, well, I was my career all of a sudden had gone and it was worthless.

[9:01] Earl Carpenter: It didn't mean anything. All the energy that I put into what I was doing now, my industry doesn't want me or has no place for me, or I feel like I'm not allowed to do the job that I had trained to do.

[9:14] Earl Carpenter: And that just screwed with my head. And I didn't know what transferable skills I had. You know, what does that mean? Entering into the muggles world of proper nine to five or something that, you know, could pay the bills.

[9:31] Earl Carpenter: And it was just an extraordinary process. And as you say, you know, when you do have people look at your career and kind of go, oh, my God, that's amazing.

[9:40] Earl Carpenter: I have to put my hand up and go, yeah, it's amazing. And I'm believe me, I'm so grateful for the opportunities that I've had over the years, for sure.

[9:51] Earl Carpenter: But it doesn't guarantee longevity.

[9:54] Ramin Karimloo: No.

[9:55] Earl Carpenter: And that's scary. And it was a real, you know, it was a real lesson to learn.

[10:02] Ramin Karimloo: But you never struck me as someone who assumed longevity.

[10:08] Ramin Karimloo: The way I know, Earl, and the artists, Earl, when I've worked with you, you are hungry every day.

[10:15] Earl Carpenter: I was hungry. Like a kid playing.

[10:17] Earl Carpenter: And that's I think that's a byproduct of my my apprenticeship. Never rely on people to give you work. Never rely on the agent to call.

[10:26] Earl Carpenter: You know, which is why I, you know, which is why I've kind of had this producing entity as well to run alongside being a performer.

[10:35] Earl Carpenter: So at least you're mentally keeping busy. You know, where are down times that we've had over the years in Canada or America or whatever.

[10:42] Earl Carpenter: Here we've you know, we've had moments of, well, what can we do something? And that that is interesting.

[10:48] Earl Carpenter: And it keeps the mind active, even those things might not come to fruition. But it's so you've just got this constant dialogue.

[10:55] Earl Carpenter: So that was always part of my persona, I suppose. But actually realizing, you know, when other people are getting more work or you'll be or other people are being favored over you now.

[11:08] Earl Carpenter: And you do realize, like I said, that kind of chapter that custodianship is the only way I can see what I could use, actually, of those roles was coming to an end.

[11:21] Ramin Karimloo: Would you have wanted to continue?

[11:23] Earl Carpenter: I would at least. So that's an interesting conversation, because I think many and probably there's a part of my inside, but would probably say, no, I wouldn't.

[11:36] Earl Carpenter: But I would have preferred to have the opportunity to have made that decision.

[11:41] Ramin Karimloo: I get that.

[11:43] Earl Carpenter: And again, it's been I mean, the last two years have been also extraordinary when you do look back and you kind of go, yeah, I was an idiot on some of those contracts.

[11:53] Earl Carpenter: I didn't conduct myself probably in the best way that I could have. And it's been and that's what was so interesting and a bit of a lifeline.

[12:02] Earl Carpenter: I have to say, thrown by Cameron to go back into the famous concert last year and just to go in as Bermuda Bar.

[12:09] Earl Carpenter: And I just thought, well, knowing the chapter that and the way that my last time with Cameron had concluded, I thought, no, I need to do this.

[12:18] Earl Carpenter: And I'm so pleased I did. And it made me realize that my CV hasn't been taken away from me just because I'm not working as vehemently or in as such a bigger persona as I was still still there.

[12:34] Earl Carpenter: Yeah. People know who I am for that. And you forget that you realize, oh, actually, no, actually, my CV does have a little bit of worth.

[12:43] Earl Carpenter: It has a lot of work. But I'm beginning to understand that. And I'm beginning to not feel so empty.

[12:54] Earl Carpenter: I think it's more of a case now that I appreciate that actually. No, I have got, you know, all those credits on my CV, but I do seem to still be working.

[13:04] Earl Carpenter: I do seem to be hanging on in there doing different things. And again, going back to that original mindset, which was I'm a working actor and off doesn't matter who I am, what I've done or whatever.

[13:16] Earl Carpenter: I'm a working actor. And rather than going, oh, yes, you know, I'm on Broadway doing Javert and all of that or I'm the Phantom. And, you know, no, actually, it's about now I'm a jobbing actor.

[13:27] Earl Carpenter: I've gone back to that again and that's been healthy and that's been nice.

[13:31] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I get that. I understand that.

[13:34] Ramin Karimloo: Exactly like you're doing right here now. You're doing exactly the same thing.

[13:41] Ramin Karimloo: The opportunities that you have created and keep you going.

[13:45] Ramin Karimloo: But you've branched out, you know, and you've gone down the TV route, which is amazing. We have to talk about that.

[13:51] Earl Carpenter: Thank you very much.

[13:52] Ramin Karimloo: But you're also sat here in a little studio off Tottenham Court Road doing what you're doing. And it's always about—and you too have always been that type of, "Okay, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do?" You know, and that is what will create longevity. It's a quest to improve and get put out of your comfort zone. Like for me, this is a privileged way of being out of my comfort zone because I'm supported by people to set up a podcast, but I never thought I'm gonna be good at this. But I could learn by talking to people.

[14:29] Earl Carpenter: Yeah, but that's just yourself. But this is what it's about, isn't it? That's what these things are about and them about finding honesty in what you talk about and actually getting rid of the facade.

[14:39] Ramin Karimloo: Don't we need to do that as artists?

[14:42] Earl Carpenter: Oh, yes, but for whatever reason, whether it be through social media, you know, and that kind of shield that provides sometimes. Yeah, that's been weighing on my head and heart. It's really difficult. It's such a difficult—it's such a fine line to kind of—because I appreciate, and we've just been to China with Three Phantoms, and I'd never experienced such extraordinary love, genuine love from fans.

[15:10] Earl Carpenter: Never experienced. I mean, that's not to say that, you know, the things I have experienced particularly in America—I mean, I'd never—I mean, that was just bar me. I always remember me trying to hide behind the children of like not doing the signature line. I just—it was so alien to me, but you embrace it. But this—the reaction from the Chinese fans because they don't get a great deal of musical theater, and this is, you know, these are people that have come to see us in anywhere around the world, and it was just extraordinary.

[15:43] Ramin Karimloo: My first time there.

[15:44] Earl Carpenter: Yes, I'm not visiting; I'm working. Yes, but not visiting.

[15:48] Ramin Karimloo: So what was that like?

[15:49] Earl Carpenter: It was extraordinary. Like I've never been, and I know I get a lot of—on social media, you never come to Japan. I'm like, I'm not choosing not to go. Yeah, I'm not being invited. It is incredible. I have to say it was absolutely incredible, and we went with a team with some people who have never been to China before, and there they had a big team.

[16:11] Ramin Karimloo: You took—I saw those photos and you were on the Great Wall as well, right?

[16:14] Earl Carpenter: Yeah, that's right. We were—it was great, and we were so looked after. I mean, we were looked after in a way that I'd never imagined, and everyone—it was just—it became more about it being a commercial success to it being a real collaboration and a real—I mean, the team that I went with, there was 15 in the company, and again, everyone just embraced everything that the Chinese team that we had, the production team, were just amazing. We ended up being quite a lovely little touring family, you know, and it was just—and everyone who came with a perception of China, you know, the things that we see, the things that we read—well, what we're forced to read, exactly, think, you know, exactly. But when people experienced the kindness, the genuine kindness—same as it's, you know, it's in the same rounds as the Japanese as well. I mean, they just embrace, and you know, obviously, we as Brits are very wary of that sometimes, but it was just so lovely to kind of go, "No, this is just nice. This is lovely."

[17:27] Ramin Karimloo: But you also realize the importance of elements of social media, you know, there is a—you know, it is an opportunity to have a window into someone's life, but are you doing a disservice by feeding what you think people want or what it is you want? But then you then in that light—well, if I feed what I think people want and the likes and everything could be good, but if I put something on there, you know, it's like putting like a photograph that I might have shared with you and me or John or Alfie, then, you know, it's like a thousand likes or something. I put a photograph of me and my horse, it gets about 17 likes, and you think, "But my horse is more important to me." No disrespect.

[18:07] Earl Carpenter: Oh, that was that photo of that horse that I saw you with that, yeah, broke my heart. Yeah, and you just think that's more important. That fuels me so much more, and see, you could—but you kind of give up. So what do I do? What do I do?

[18:20] Ramin Karimloo: Well, tell me how much do you care about that?

[18:24] Earl Carpenter: Well, that's—and that's the dichotomy of the situation. I care because I'm a creative. I have an ego. I care about my presence in the industry, obviously, because I still want to work in the industry. You think lack or the amount of likes on a photo is a sign towards—well, I think you go through—you go through a stage of thinking that, yes, that has an effect, but actually, it doesn't, and I'm learning that it doesn't. It doesn't really matter because the minute you do put up something that's of show-related, then the response is great. You kind of go, "Okay, okay, all right then. I accept the fact that, you know, some people just want to know about my life in musicals. There are some people that like my photography, and there are some people that like me running around the stables mending electric fences and stuff like that, you know. It's actually okay. It doesn't matter just because one thing gets a gazillion likes and the other dozen doesn't make any difference."

[19:32] Ramin Karimloo: So where were you working? What was it called where you were working?

[19:40] Earl Carpenter: Oh, Northington Stables, which is kind of in the middle of Hampshire.

[19:43] Ramin Karimloo: How long were you working there for?

[19:48] Earl Carpenter: I still am. I still go amend stables and things like that.

[19:55] Ramin Karimloo: How's your head and heart when you're out there now?

[19:58] Earl Carpenter: I love it. Right, it's incredible. It's beautiful because you're outside in the country, you know, doing things and with electric fences and stables and woodwork and all the things that I love doing, and then, you know, to add to it, you then get a horse come up to you and go, "What are you doing? What's that?"

[20:09] Ramin Karimloo: They're amazing creatures, aren't they?

[20:10] Earl Carpenter: Oh, they're incredible, and which is why we, you know, we saved this particular horse. So we basically bought him in. I own a horse now, which is just do you hysterical.

[20:21] Ramin Karimloo: But he's a 14-year-old. Of course you do. Yeah, of course.

[20:26] Earl Carpenter: Oh, it's a horse because one—well, you only live once, and why not?

[20:30] Ramin Karimloo: I was gonna say, like, I was gonna come back to, you know, 23 years in the business and to be left at a point, "What now?" and I needed to make money. I'm like, "Well, how were you not good at financial keeping, like, you know, with your books and what?"

[20:42] Earl Carpenter: Oh, but then I'm like, "No, 'cause he bought a horse. You'll buy two bikes when he lives in a motor home." I'm like, "Why do you have two bikes? Okay, just buy one."

[20:55] Earl Carpenter: No, no, no, I wasn't that—I didn't have two bikes. We had two bikes. One was Sam's, not mine. One was a Harley.

[21:01] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[21:02] Earl Carpenter: I got rid of it. Don't please don't ever get me—

[21:05] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I was surprised you bought one because I kept wanting—when we both were in Phantom together, you were on a BMW. I was in a Harley, and I would say, "Hop on the Harley, take over," and you're like, "Oh darling, no, it's too loud." And then I got one, and I loved it. It was a beautiful bike, but obviously it had the factory exhaust, so it didn't make as big a noise as yours.

[21:29] Earl Carpenter: But it's not me; it's you. I mean, you're such a cool dude, and there's me, I'm kind of country casuals and horses, Land Rovers, thank you, you know.

[21:42] Ramin Karimloo: So when you started working there, that's where a lot of you were questioning a lot and thinking, "What the fuck?"

[21:52] Earl Carpenter: Yeah. Well, I think it was—I think it was more about—it helped put things into perspective, and I think that's what I'd lost—perspective. I mean, you know, the last six years has been—what actually probably the last ten years have been extraordinary, you know, having done the 25th anniversary production with John Owen Jones and then going to Canada with you, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm in this position of I'm then doing all these other gigs, and I get to sing with one of your favorites, Mr. Colm Wilkinson in Japan, and I just think, "Oh my God, this is just extraordinary." And then I'm—what, I'm going to New York? This is just like—and you do—you kind of get, "Well, this is the way it is.

This is my life now, bloody bloody blah." But of course, you don't stop to think, "Well, no, actually, no, no, no, no, war, war, war, war. This only has a certain longevity; this only has a certain timeline." And I think because I'd become so accustomed to that, you know, and I did try and make my own way as well, you know, when we went to Singapore, I made sure that I started meeting and chatting people, so I then did go back with my own concerts and stuff. You know, I've never just relied on, like I said, just getting someone to give you work.

[23:19] Ramin Karimloo: You do—I mean, you know, my carbon footprint was shocking.

[23:26] Earl Carpenter: Hmm, but what an exciting life, you know? But you kind of go, "Well, no, I shouldn't," but I just didn't think that it would come to an end. I thought I would be forever doing it. Yeah, before my neck injury, I was worried about my carbon footprint. I had, thinking in one 12-month calendar period, 25 international flights.

[23:44] Ramin Karimloo: Wow. Okay, it's not good. It's not good. But on the flip—so what do you do? But there's also incredibly exciting, and what a wonderful opportunity.

[23:50] Earl Carpenter: Yeah, because that's the other thing. I mean, I miss touring. I miss touring so much there because I get a sense that, you know, if you're touring and you're seeing all these different things, you're not wasting life. But to tour, I'm so nomadic in within me. I mean, you know, as a kid, I was moved around, or no, but you know that as well. I mean, you too, you know, you need to travel. You need to get—you have that sense that's in us.

[24:13] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. Okay, I've been here for weeks. I need to move now.

[24:18] Earl Carpenter: Yeah, we've just finished tech, opening night. Okay, what's next? You know, move on. That's a bad thing when you do get to that point of going, you know, because there are all those exciting moments of rehearsals, technical sits, probes, opening night—Incredible. There's nothing that comes close to it the day after opening night.

[24:36] Ramin Karimloo: No. Yeah, I could finish now.

[24:44] Earl Carpenter: Don't you feel that sense of your weight lifted off your shoulders because you know after opening night, certain people go away, the show is kind of like in good hands now and yes, running, and now you can go, "Oh, we can play now. We can do the show."

[25:01] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I do. Yeah.

[25:03] Earl Carpenter: I learned this from Hadley, the way he sees runs now to keep it fresh. It's just an ongoing rehearsal process.

[25:11] Ramin Karimloo: It is, and you're—as long as you have that. Yeah, and because that's obviously—there are a lot of shows that are so formulaic. You know, track one, number eight, you must be there for that moment. You're like, "Really?" But I'd rather go over there, you know, there. That's difficult, you know, if it's that type of world, which is why I'd love to do a play also because I'd love to know if I can tell a story without music.

[25:34] Earl Carpenter: I'm sure you can.

[25:35] Ramin Karimloo: I would be so interested.

[25:36] Earl Carpenter: Ever done a play?

[25:39] Ramin Karimloo: Never done a play.

[25:40] Earl Carpenter: Really? Never done a play, and I would love to do that. I would have—would adore doing that.

[25:43] Ramin Karimloo: So at which point, when you're working out in the wilderness, horses and fixing electric fences, when did you start seeing a sort of like glimmer of light of another acting gig and you thought, "I'm hungry for that" or "I'm excited"?

[25:59] Earl Carpenter: I think what came more apparent to me was, like I said, the some of the opportunities that I took for granted, whereas now when the opportunities to turn up, I think I'm actually having had that spell of, "Oh my God, this is over. This is done. I'm done." Now realizing, "Oh no, I'm not done." But I now seem to have variety more, which is really exciting. When an opportunity does come up, I seem to be a lot more grateful for it. And like I said, and with this kind of little Earl looking in going, "Yeah, I would never have believed that that would be happening," and that seems to be my mechanism to kind of go, "Whoa, just be grateful," you know, and I've really had to work harder at that now more than ever because I really say not many people—a lot of people probably listen and go, "Oh yeah, of course," but I'm like, "But when do we as humans?"

I don't think we practice the easy things, the "Oh yeah, of course we should be doing that," the common sense. Yeah, I'm guilty of it, and it's sort of like it's that reminder of like, you know, just be grateful that it's a difficult thing. I think it is. It's difficult to do.

[27:21] Earl Carpenter: Much time trying to make it in this industry. And then when you feel that you do, of course, you take it in and you enjoy it. And you go, Thank God, I'm here. I've made it all this work. But of course, during that training, during that apprenticeship, no one really says, Yeah, yeah, hang on. This will finish. There will this this what you're experiencing this bubble will change. It will pop and you will have to decide how you want how you handle it and where you go to next, you know, whereas a lot of people I'm sure you and I both know who have gone No, I'm out and done. You know, but for whatever reason, you know, I still, you know, still want to be involved, still be a part of it. I think I try and pop the bubble.

Once the contract's done for everything, keep popping it and keep making a new bubble. You know, but it's gaps. I always want I don't think we should rest on our laurels. And like you say, so when you when you said, there's times where you feel you didn't perhaps be the best you or act as we as you feel you should have. You feel those bridges have been burned? Or are you rebuilding them? I think in contact, I think but I think because of the decisions, I mean, I could have said no to the Les Mis concert. Playing the matter bar. Is that it? I could have gone down that, you know, but I didn't because you actually came at a point where, no, I need to feel that I still am a part of that world. And the right thing for me to do is to go, you know, amazing.

And thank you. Anyway, as it all turned out, I ended up even singing Javert a couple of times during it, which I never thought I would do ever again. And to have that I've haven't had that moment. You kind of go Yeah. And I you know, and it's, and I'm pleased it happened. And I think. And again, it's that thing about just being a human and just being normal and just being a good person around everybody and actually not being the dick. You know, and actually saying no, no, we'll do this. It's it's cool, you know, rather than going, well, no, you know, equity and my agent and all of that malarkey. And you just kind of I don't know, it's pretty weird. And I think it's so do you feel a new sense of renewed sense of love for the stage, the craft, I think, which I don't think you've always had, I have had, I guess it was these facades that you talk about or nonsense that well, I think you're probably your own worst enemy.

Well, yes, yes, I think that's fair to say. But it's also that thing about you have, you know, when you go into certain environments, you you experience when you come in with experience, you either decide to exercise that experience, or just sit back and let it be. Whereas before I've kind of tried to exercise my experience. And it doesn't always work because as I was taught one day, you know, there is a bigger picture. And it doesn't involve me. You know, and you kind of go, Ah, yeah, so I've just got to enjoy now. Just be, you know, rather than going, Well, actually, what about if we do this? And no, no, you mustn't do that. And all those types of things, which, you know, do fall into the trap of thinking that you have a voice.

But you just got to step back and sometimes go, No, I need to be quiet and just enjoy. Yeah, think about just enjoy and absolutely pick your battles. I mean, I'm not saying that you should never you just roll over and that's it. But you should put your pick your battles and but enjoy it. Because again, those moments, you know, where I've been in different countries, and you just kind of got to, you know, say no, look, I'm in a different country. This is exciting. How many people get this opportunity? Yeah, you know, when I go back to where my mom used to live, in the in the New Forest, and, you know, you go to the little village that you grew up in, and there are people still there, some 30, 40 years later, who haven't left, who are working in the local bank or something like that.

And you're going to go and you have to go, Gosh, look at what I've done. And look at the opportunity that could still happen. And not to say they're not happy. Not to say that at all. Of course, no, but it's my reflection of that being in one place for that amount of time. I could not do that. But it's, so that's why there are moments you kind of think, Oh, I wish I handled that a little better. So when you had that time, and then when you went back to Les Miserables, did you find a new like, man, I'm having a blast. It was really weird. And yes, I'm Yes, I did. I did what an extraordinary it was. I mean, that it was gonna be part of as an event. It was it was amazing. And again, it's that checking in of going, you know, those little moments of musical theatre history, you know, doing the O2 doing the Royal Albert Hall with you.

And, you know, just all those moments of even the Royal Albert Hall, having Anthony Warlow, run up to me, put his hand down his trousers, pull out his mic belt, and go, I'm wearing your mic belt. I was worried where the story was going. Yeah, I know. But just I mean, just extraordinary moments like that, you know, and it's just, I don't know. It's so weird. It is so weird. And it's, but it's nice to be. I mean, it's still difficult. It's still hard now. And I'm still going, Oh, my God, what's next? What's coming next? But because I've had this kind of epiphany of that, no, you know, I'm, I have to adapt, I have to adapt. And as long as I keep myself occupied, as long as I keep myself busy, and that is from the point of view of whether it be with my photography or working at the stables, then other things happen.

And it does happen. It's like when you're trying to search for something, it never happens. But when you go, Okay, I'll do that. And then all of a sudden, everything comes along. Yeah. Life can go. Oh, you think you're doing that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. You just keep yourself prepared as best as possible. And we'll take care of the rest. Exactly. And that's, that's, that's that. And that's the thing. And that is the thing you just got to be open to everything. And that's what that's, that's what's been, I think the biggest lesson is, I love you. I love your honesty. I love the ever changing. You know, you've been told you live in decades. And I just feel like you're worried about becoming 50. I'm excited to see like, this is a new chapter for Earl Carpenter as an artist. And as a producer, no doubt. And I find you as inspiring now as I ever have. And I'm so proud that you're my buddy.

[34:31] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, you're as you're a star. Is this where we talk about Starlight Express and that concert?

[34:36] Earl Carpenter: You can. Listen, I am so grateful that you don't have that recording, or you can't find it.

[34:42] Ramin Karimloo: I can't find that recording.

[34:44] Earl Carpenter: So that was our first time we worked together. Because listen, I've specifically not really talked about your CV, we're gonna, we'll do this again. And we'll talk work as I will do a podcast where I want to pick your brain about character development. And maybe not. I just changed the names. I don't know. So was that the first con? I know we met at a Les Mis audition prior to that was it where we became friends?

[35:02] Earl Carpenter: No, that was a is it was a Les Mis audition, wasn't it? It's one of those workshops.

[35:16] Ramin Karimloo: No, it wasn't it. It was either Jesus Christ Superstar. Do you remember we did that at Portchester Castle? You produce that?

[35:21] Earl Carpenter: Yeah, I think. But the other one we did at Osborne House on the Isle of Wight. So it was you, Kerry Ellis, Chris Holland, Rebecca Thornhill and myself.

[35:35] Ramin Karimloo: And we were Anita Louise Coombe. Yep. And it was I think the top of act two.

[35:42] Earl Carpenter: The most mortifying to this day. I still like it pains me.

[35:46] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, to this day, we still talk about it. I worked with Chris in Dublin over just before Christmas. And that's all we just kept laughing about was because Chris was was literally sat right next to you. Because because Kerry Kerry literally broke Chris's arm because he was hanging on for dear life because she was laughing because you accidentally misconstrued.

[36:13] Earl Carpenter: Okay, so we're singing it's called Starlight. You are the Starlight or Starlight Express Express, which went to I am the Starlight. But I had to come in with Starlight Express.

[36:17] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, really high, loud and proud.

[36:24] Earl Carpenter: Oh, absolutely. I believe it's after five rounds of whatever musical interlude was orchestrated. Now, I said to the conductor, because I can't count, let alone read music, point me in. So it's going round and round. I see him look over at me, his hand gestures. Yes. I'm like Starlight Express. As I hit Starlight, as I hit the L in light, I can tell that by the look on his face, oh, shit, I was bringing in the cello, not you. I mean, because then as I'm on holding Express in a completely different key to my to my defense, I was on my right notes.

[37:09] Ramin Karimloo: Well, yes, just one round early.

[37:15] Earl Carpenter: Yes, this is true. But instead of just letting, letting things lie and just letting it go, and no one will know when Starlight Express, then he gave me the proper cue. Starlight Express. I did it twice. At this point, at this point, I'm on the literally I'm on the floor. I am on the floor, the opposite side of the stage, crying, crying, because it was your face.

[37:37] Ramin Karimloo: Because I remember looking across to you. You got up and Carrie and Chris are looking why is he getting up? You hitting Starlight Express. And then that kind of realization on your face of going, this is wrong. This is this is wrong. And oh, my, I mean, my stomach. And of course, I had to get up and go only you and sing it with Chris Holland. And Chris said, I mean, he carried carry broke him because he was literally crying with laughter. But I think maybe we weren't talking about that. Maybe that was just something we should leave.

[38:12] Earl Carpenter: Remember, I was so I want you know what, because I was young and green. So in my head, I'm like, I'm never gonna work again. And I wanted to blame someone else. So I went Starlight Express, Starlight Express. And I quickly as I came off the note, quickly went on defense shouted to Chris. He brought me in.

[38:30] Ramin Karimloo: Yes, yes.

[38:37] Earl Carpenter: While this is all going on, which is I'm having a moment now going to justify why I did what I did. I'm like, dude, the show's still going. Carry on. 5000 people in this field. And it was just brilliant. I mean, it was just and again, just those moments having those moments. And again, having this type of platform, as well, to talk about those things, things that, you know, people don't get to hear about or see unless they were there.

[39:00] Ramin Karimloo: Well, this is free cell phone. Real. I don't think I had a cell phone at that point. But I'm afraid to even say we just missed the everyone recording everything.

[39:12] Earl Carpenter: Oh, yes. No, this is very true. It's gonna come up. Someone's gonna go wait a minute.

[39:15] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, yeah. No. Though I do have a recording somewhere. I really do. You can't find it.

[39:23] Earl Carpenter: No, I tried to find it. Yes. I tried to find it. But I'm somewhere maybe who knows? Can we have you back soon?

[39:32] Ramin Karimloo: I would love to so much more I want to talk about.

[39:36] Earl Carpenter: And likewise. I'm glad you've had these epiphanies, man. Yeah, they've been so important. So so important. And it just it helps. I think you're a lot to offer brother. I love you. Goodbye.

[39:46] Ramin Karimloo: Well, thanks for hanging with Earl and I, folks. Again, I was truly moved and inspired by Earl, and I'm excited to see what his next chapter brings us, especially for me as a friend, colleague, and a fan. The Hang is produced by Dori Beristain and Alan Seales from the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find me online at epn.fm forward slash The Hang.

[40:08] Ramin Karimloo: Don't forget, you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter at Ramin Karimloo on YouTube, a roaming Iranian or my Facebook page, official Ramin Karimloo. Music for my podcast is by my friends and one of my favorite bands, The Dives. Please check them out at their website, thedivesmusic.com. That's thedivesmusic.com where you can get to know them, hear their incredible music, get links to all their socials and most importantly, their tour dates where you can find out where you can see and hear them live. They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal live. Check them out.