This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:02] Ramin Karimloo: Hello everyone, welcome to this week's hang.

[0:04] Ramin Karimloo: This week I am so excited to have Phantom alumni Laird Mackintosh on our hang. He's someone I've been looking up to since I was stage dooring back in Toronto when Phantom of the Opera was at Pantages Theater.

[0:18] Ramin Karimloo: And Laird was Raoul. He started in the ensemble, became Raoul, became a Phantom cover, and he's had a long tenure with the production here on Broadway. And I wanted to pick his brain about that and just hang out with him because, as you will see, Laird is one of the kindest, nicest people you'll ever meet, and he's a phenomenal artist. And I just love how he is on stage as he is off stage. I hope you enjoy.

[0:49] Ramin Karimloo: Because after Phantom left Toronto too, the way it left, I think, with LivEnt Gold.

[0:56] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[0:57] Ramin Karimloo: I think that really had such an effect on the industry in Toronto because Mervish, everything went at its highest. You had Mervish doing a lot of great things, LivEnt doing a lot of great things, and this, you know, you get smaller, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Not ground like roots, ground roots sort of theater, uh, sprouting up everywhere, so it was thriving.

[1:24] Laird Mackintosh: You're right.

[1:25] Ramin Karimloo: And I think success breeds success, but once that went, it sort of like became desolate.

[1:30] Laird Mackintosh: I think so.

[1:31] Laird Mackintosh: I mean, uh, yeah, and I don't think we've recovered since.

[1:34] Ramin Karimloo: No, in those days after LivEnt, I ended up going to Stratford, so I wasn't, I was there for a bunch of years and I wasn't in Toronto trying to make a living as an actor, so I didn't really, I probably wouldn't have been as conscious of it then, but I think you're absolutely right. Like at the height of that time when LivEnt and Mervish were really competing, that makes, like obviously that competition made for incredible.

[1:58] Laird Mackintosh: There was a decade there when it was just, you know, unbelievable stuff.

[2:02] Ramin Karimloo: Well, there was second to Broadway when it came to like people traveling to see certain shows, you know, like Ragtime started there, Fosse would start there, Showboat, all the new versions were created. That was the sort of out-of-town tryout.

[2:13] Laird Mackintosh: Right.

[2:15] Ramin Karimloo: Right. And then we'd have long sit-down productions and things like Les Misérables and Phantom. That brought people to the city and kept actors working. It was so inspiring at that time.

[2:27] Ramin Karimloo: We've already started the podcast, Laird Mackintosh. Welcome to the hang.

[2:30] Laird Mackintosh: Thank you.

[2:31] Ramin Karimloo: We're gonna use some of that. And I just, we'll continue talking about Toronto and start from back then. First of all, welcome. It's great to have you.

[2:37] Laird Mackintosh: Thank you.

[2:38] Ramin Karimloo: This, I walked in here and I said, this is the pad of a Broadway star. This is a Broadway star. Look at this, man. This is amazing.

[2:47] Laird Mackintosh: I can't wait to meet that Broadway star when he arrives and sees that I'm squatting in his flat.

[2:53] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, yeah. What are you doing here? Listen, man, well, so we're talking about Toronto and that, you know, at that time when we met, I stage doored you. I'll never forget this. And to this day, I'll still remember like for some reason, not for some reason, you are one of the kindest people I know.

[3:11] Ramin Karimloo: For some, but for some reason you're going, I'm gonna get a bite. Do you want to come? And we went to Eaton Center, right? At one of the restaurants across the road. And to this day, I remember thinking, because you were on as Raoul. You were Raoul.

[3:21] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[3:22] Ramin Karimloo: And I was just dreaming of doing that, and then we're hanging out in the Eaton Center, and you were watching a game, you're talking about the business, talking about Colm Wilkinson, Peter Carey was a fan at the time.

[3:34] Laird Mackintosh: Right.

[3:35] Ramin Karimloo: And we were just hanging.

[3:38] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[3:38] Ramin Karimloo: And you were super kind to me, and I remember thinking, wow, yeah, I'm gonna do what Laird does as well. Because at this point, I'm so inspired by Colm and Phantom. And here we are. I'm blown away that you look exactly the same. So I need to know what you did, what you drink and what you don't drink. How have you kept your youthfulness?

[3:56] Laird Mackintosh: I don't know. I guess because I'm doing what I love, you know. I mean, that's part of it for sure.

[4:05] Ramin Karimloo: I love hearing that because also you have a tenure with Phantom. You're still, I want to say still there, but you go and come back. You've been doing other things, but you've had a long-standing relationship with this production as well as other productions around the world, but especially Broadway, and I didn't know you were back.

[4:22] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, did you come back on this show?

[4:23] Ramin Karimloo: I didn't know I was gonna be back either because I left the show, you know, I was in the show on Broadway for six years and was just super lucky to be. I always, after being in the Toronto production, I dreamed of doing it here in New York, and I tried hard. Like I was auditioning back when I was in Toronto. I've auditioned for the first time here in New York.

[4:43] Laird Mackintosh: Um, and I think I did three auditions in New York over about a decade, you know.

[4:48] Ramin Karimloo: Blows my mind that you have to audition perfectly the same people, yeah.

[4:52] Laird Mackintosh: Well, and they weren't the same people, you know, because we didn't have the same people in Toronto, but yeah, I guess so. I mean, to be honest with you, that's, you know, auditioning, it never ends, right? This is something that I'm realizing like I would like to think I'm sort of mid-career now, you know, and I'm definitely mid-career, maybe a little bit further. And that's both a reality that I've had to come to terms with and also something that frustrates me. You know, I'm certainly not, uh, you are, I'm sure, but I'm not someone who ever gets like offered a role, right? Um, maybe I, maybe I'm, maybe once or twice I've had things that have come to me, you know, that I haven't been aware of or haven't been auditioning for.

[5:41] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[5:42] Laird Mackintosh: Um, but, uh, yeah, that's a reality of the business right now. I mean, I feel like I get, uh, hear about an audition and I'm going in with people who have been in the business for one year, you know, and the people who are putting the show on are looking at me like they, you know, they have no idea who I am. Not that there's any reason why they'd be like, you know, Laird Mackintosh, but there's no, now more than ever, I think your resume really, I'm not sure if it means anything, you know.

[6:12] Ramin Karimloo: I agree. It's um, and I think the business is really changing, or maybe I'm changing and getting older. You get older and you, I've achieved a few things that I really wanted to achieve, and so now I suppose I'm more, um, particular about the kinds of things that I would like to do. Um, but of course you can't, you can't pick anything you do in this business, you know.

[6:32] Laird Mackintosh: For anyone, I'm sure that's it.

[6:34] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. But Toronto was, you know, the thing about meeting you was that I suppose like 10 years before or five years or seven years before that was me stage dooring people like when I was in, I had first come from Western Canada to from Calgary, Alberta, is where I'm from, to Montreal, and I was going to a dance school in Montreal.

[6:58] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, because you were a full-on dancer, right?

[7:00] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I had a like a five-year period where I was absolutely focused on classical dancing. And I went to school in Banff. There's a fine arts school in Banff, but I was in the acting program. And I had been studying singing from a very young age. You know, I just was like someone who loved singing, so I was, I kind of had the beginnings of that under my belt. But when I went to this program in Banff, they also had an opera program going, they had a ballet program. And for whatever reason, I had been down to Toronto looking at theater schools, and nothing felt like, oh, this is the place I want to go. But I met these ballet dancers and I was curious enough to go watch some of the classes that they were having.

And I don't know why. I just, I loved the aesthetics of it, you know, like I looked at it and thought that's something I can do. And for some reason I liked the dancers themselves and I liked the kind of atmosphere of that work in the studio and when they do the bar before the rehearsals, you know, it's this kind of, um, I don't know, this rigorous set classical kind of standard that I got sort of hooked on.

[8:16] Laird Mackintosh: So I told my parents, you know, I'm gonna go to this ballet school in Montreal, and they'd never, they knew nothing about, my parents were very supportive of the idea of like an artistic kind of life, but they weren't artists themselves.

[8:28] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[8:28] Laird Mackintosh: And they didn't really know anything about ballet. Um, but they were like totally supportive of it. And then I got down there and um, I did dance professionally for a couple of years, but it wasn't, um, I always had something in the back of my mind like, oh, maybe it's not quite, you know, something changed in me, and I realized I wanted to do more continuous singing.

[8:49] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[8:49] Laird Mackintosh: Um, you know, and I think that's like always a difficulty with artists is you have a million things going on. You want to be, that's part of being like changeable and kind of multi-personality kind of thing. You want to do different things, and so, um, yeah, so I ended up getting, you know, leaving the ballet and, um, and around that time got into Phantom, uh, and was, uh, so did you start as Raoul?

[9:23] Ramin Karimloo: No, I was in the ensemble, but, uh, what I was gonna say was that I was in Montreal and this touring production of Cats was there, and I loved Cats at the time. I loved that show, and I was at the stage door with the same kind of impulse, you know, like an energy that you had of just showing up there, didn't know anyone, and just wanted to stand there and meet the cast and talk to them, you know. Like I think when you're young, you're very, you have no inhibitions about that sort of thing.

[9:51] Laird Mackintosh: No, and also we, I wasn't, there's no social media, so I wasn't there.

[9:55] Ramin Karimloo: Right, right. It wasn't about getting a photo, I wanted to talk.

[9:58] Laird Mackintosh: Right, right.

[9:59] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, that is, I mean, this is the biggest change that we're living in now, right? I mean, this has changed the world for sure.

[10:03] Laird Mackintosh: For sure.

[10:06] Ramin Karimloo: Actually, it gives me anxiety now. Stage door. I mean, like, it's just, it's, there's so much, it's odd because you're there to connect, but I don't feel there's a connection. Or if we're walking in the street and someone recognizes you and they come talk to you, it's a different experience. It's more like, hey, and we can talk, and it's a bit more calm, you know, you can actually engage.

[10:28] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, stage door is so fleeting, and there's lots going on and videos and cameras. I don't know why, but I'm just like, I find that overwhelming now. Where if you bump into someone in the street, totally different experience. You're like, yeah, it's of course. Because I do like that connection and that engagement, but that stage door feels, I don't know, feels fleeting.

[10:48] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I mean, you must, you could write a book about it, I'm sure, because you're dealing with genuine, you know, I'm sorry, you're dealing with genuine stardom, right? So you, people are, there's a lot of people that are, I mean, I don't have that experience at the stage door. I'm not Lea Michele, you know, what she's got to go, what she has to, you know, they're there for her, I get it. Um, I've, I guess for stage door I've had to stop too because there have been certain incidents and stuff that's ongoing, which I'll tell you about off camera, which now it's like we just can't do it.

[11:18] Laird Mackintosh: Yep, yeah.

[11:19] Ramin Karimloo: That's funny. We've, I've experienced that too, which we'll talk about to a smaller degree. But it's, I do miss those times where it was, I guess, smaller, you know, and you could engage more and stuff. But going back to you, so you're that, so you felt that as well when we met. Because we're not dissimilar in age.

[11:38] Laird Mackintosh: No, I, well, I think I'm like a 10 years older than you, I think.

[11:41] Ramin Karimloo: No, you're not over 50 now, right?

[11:42] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, oh yeah, I am.

[11:43] Ramin Karimloo: No way.

[11:44] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, would you put me over 50?

[11:47] Ramin Karimloo: No way, yeah.

[11:48] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, yeah.

[11:50] Ramin Karimloo: So, uh, you know, you're very happy, Laird.

[11:50] Laird Mackintosh: You're very happy.

[11:54] Laird Mackintosh: No, I mean, fortunately, I don't know, in this business, it never really, you know, you're cast based on purely on what you look like, right? And even what you look like on stage, which I think is a little bit different than how you might appear, you know, a foot away from someone. But, um, and energy, right? It's sort of, uh, you know, some people I think are have a much more like mature serious energy when they're younger, and some people have got a kind of lightness about them, and I'm probably in the second half, you know.

[12:25] Ramin Karimloo: But, um, yeah, well, I was exactly the same way. I was super curious. I had that sense of like, you know, I had a kind of sense like I'm one of these people and I just have to meet them and be able to talk to them and I'm sure you had that instinct as well, you know, and so I was always very, and I still am very sympathetic to people when they come up to you at the stage door and are saying I want to do what you're doing and how do I get into it. And, um, you know, I'm always aware, well, because of your story, I'm always aware this could be the next Ramin that I'm talking to.

[12:28] Laird Mackintosh: I get that too every now and then you, I don't know if you're like that too where if when you do sort of see people who want to speak to you and you can, you know, you get that sixth sense, but there's always like one or two you think I'm gonna talk to that person specifically. I feel like they got something to ask or say and you know, and I, you do, yeah, I wish stage door was a little different these days so you can engage because even if it's a couple minutes, it can be so powerful because again, we were that person too.

[13:34] Ramin Karimloo: Well, yeah, it wasn't so social media and like half the people like it's there to get a photo for their Instagram and this and that, but you're like, but we haven't engaged actually, we haven't tried.

[13:34] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, that's true.

[13:34] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, well that was probably an end of an era for that sort of thing, but you came with a school group to see Phantom, right? You'd never seen it, right?

[13:34] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[13:34] Ramin Karimloo: And you had like the sort of epiphany watching the show that you're gonna, and that was Colm.

[14:01] Laird Mackintosh: But I remember it like you just said something. It wasn't about, it's when you said, I feel like I'm one of them. And it was never like I'd watch it go, I could do better than that, or I deserve to be up there. I'm just like, yeah, this is how I want to hang. And that's what it was. It was never about anything other than why won't I be up there. Maybe that ignorance was bliss, but that's why I was able to kind of like, I was curious to ask you questions and talk to you and be like, okay, so what's the path now and try and copy your path, Steve Colm's path or whatever, and go, okay, what that resonates with me, so I'll do that. Because a lot of the time when people ask about success, it's sort of like most of these paths have been done.

We just have to copy and paste and then find your own unique style. It's never, it's very hard to tell someone how to do it in the business because if you ever do a master class or something like that, young performers are always asking, "What, how do you do it?"

[14:39] Laird Mackintosh: Colm, right.

[14:40] Ramin Karimloo: Amazing.

[14:41] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[14:59] Ramin Karimloo: What's the path? And parents of these kids are always saying to you, what should they do next? What do you do? And there is no one path. I mean, as you know, and you, I think, went on a real odyssey because you had already come to Canada, then you went to London. I don't know so much about when you ended up going to England, but then you're over there in England, and that's when I heard of you again, was suddenly you're like, you know, you're playing all these roles over in the UK. And, uh, you know, so you obviously found your own way to do it, which is I think what everybody has to do. You just have to try anywhere you can, and the path kind of reveals itself. Most of the time is just showing up and being brave and not trying to control it.

And it's really about checking ego nowadays with social media. My main thing is like, don't post your process. People are so quick to post the first time they try and sing something or show. I, you know, sometimes, uh, there's people who do show like where they mess up or mistakes or whatnot, but sometimes I'm like, just do it. You don't have to film it, you don't have to post it, you don't have to share it. Use that rehearsal process as a private thing.

[16:12] Laird Mackintosh: Sure. Um, I want to go back to when you were in Phantom. Oh, I was gonna ask you this, though, because you mentioned master classes. Do you do masterclasses?

[16:20] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I do them not of my own creating, but yeah, I get asked sometimes to do the odd one here.

[16:29] Laird Mackintosh: You get nervous?

[16:30] Ramin Karimloo: Because I've always turned them down because I'm like, I don't know why I'm gonna part. I don't, uh, yeah, I don't get particularly nervous in that situation. You go in with a curriculum, like you know what you're gonna do, or do you just sit there and ask, it's a Q&A and you riff off that?

[16:38] Laird Mackintosh: Well, a Q&A's those are always fun and really easy. If it's a master class where somebody comes in and you know, they've, I'll know in advance what songs they're singing, and I don't always know what the right, the show or the songs because I'm not a super musical theater buff, you know, which is probably, you know, not such a good thing, but like, you know what I mean? Like, so, um, yeah, I'll have to kind of figure out what they're gonna do, and then, um, I think often in master classes though, I'm doing it with younger people though. It's not like, no, I guess I'm doing it with people who are right about to come into the business because people, the young kids are so much further along now, I think than I was, and also in schools, like every school, even up in Canada, but in the States, there's a million musical theater programs. It's so much bigger than it's become cool, it's everywhere.

[17:13] Ramin Karimloo: Exactly. I'm like, where was this? Right, right. Yeah, yeah. If there was something like that, had there been something like that in Toronto or where I grew up in Calgary, I'm sure I would have gone into a musical theater program if I knew that that kind of thing was probably what I should have done. Yeah, you know. Um, but, uh, yeah. Um, I enjoy that kind of thing, but I'm not, I don't, um, I'm not as, uh, I mean, I don't know how you, you know, you how do you have time to do a podcast, right? You're so busy all the time, all the time. And I think like I'm someone who likes not being busy, so that is also kind of, uh, sometimes I like to be really working hard in a very concentrated, focused kind of way.

And other times I have a side to myself, I don't want to be working at all, you know. So I'm getting to that point where I do want that, but I think I don't know, it's funny, and I'm at 44 now. I feel like greener than ever. And honestly, to do this podcast was because thankfully I am a busy person that this gives me an hour for you and you and me to hang out.

[18:50] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, awesome. And it's odd that it's not on camera stuff, but I'm like, this makes us talk. And I'm still a fan of yours, so it gives me a chance to dissect your brain, hopefully, and learn something, but also give you the platform. So it gives me this is actually a way to kind of stop.

[19:05] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, well, you're so right. I mean, I think we are doing less and less of this, and this last, I mean, I think of it as the last decade where social media has really become a part of our existence, or at least for me, I don't really remember everybody with the, you know, all the Instagram and all that stuff before 10 years ago. It kind of coincides with my life in the States. And, um, yeah, it's definitely like over the pandemic, I actually became quite gun shy of, uh, maybe that's not the right word, but you know, I became quite shy of, um, social media of post like when I was first on Instagram, I was, I took a real delight in it and enjoyed the idea. Oh, I'm here at Phantom and I can take, you know, show a picture of a costume up close backstage, and you get a sense of really you always very artistic.

I was doing a lot of like these pictures, and the fans were really into it because they see stuff up close, and yeah, yeah. It was, uh, and then you kind of find yourself going, Oh, okay, that's what they like, I'll do more of that. And you're like acting sort of like now I will, you know, to satisfy the need of the, and then when I got, we end, my wife and I ended up having upstate in our house during, you know, we were very lucky because we were on the road with My Fair Lady and the pandemic shut everything down, and we were super fortunate because we were able to just go to this house for, I mean, we're up there for like a year, you know, or a year and a half or whatever it was. And, um, then I kind of realized like a lot of people like just slowing down and not being on social media and, you know, posting a lot less, and that kind of took hold a little bit, you know.

[20:52] Laird Mackintosh: So, um, you kind of reflect on wait a minute, what am I? Because I'm amazed at how many people, okay, it gives you, uh, basically a television studio in your, you know, and, and as a performer, I find I'm one of those people who's a bit, I am not an extrovert, you know. I don't like to like if I go to a party and somebody's like, sing a song, you know. Uh, if I don't have a character to be behind, you know, um, I'm not as into it, you know. And so, and I think there are performers that are totally extroverted, and some who get in it because they want to absorb into a character, explore that, yeah, you know, and and be in another person's, you know, body and soul and mind for that two hours or whatever it is.

And that that's more of what interests me. But it's incredible to me how many, how many, obviously, how many individuals want to be the star of their own television show, whatever it is, and will just broadcast any random, you know, like half-baked idea that comes into their head, and it it's so you get inundated on, yeah, social media, and because it monetizes now, so people are in this you see people making money, I'm like, hmm. Well, good on them.

[22:14] Ramin Karimloo: And as you say, it's half-baked ideas, or it's like, what did I just watch? But I watched it, yeah, right, right. No, I'm as guilty as I mean, I do too. Well, that's why I've started reevaluating my social media as well. And, you know, I had an app that was shutting down because that the business side behind like behind the curtain, so to speak, started changing. And while it's a good company, I just thought, well, it just doesn't fit with what I want to do. And I want to now use like, you know, you have your different channels, YouTube channel, Instagram, I guess Facebook and Twitter if you go down that road and see it as pots, and you just okay, that's gonna be the for that, that's gonna be for that. I'm now taking comments off.

[22:54] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[22:54] Ramin Karimloo: So people can't comment. Because I'm like, only because I'm gonna end up going through it, and good comments, I think, are just as I don't say harmful, but it doesn't help because it, uh, if you boost your ego, it's not a good thing. Or you'll find that one naughty comment, and you're like, oh fuck, you know, what, why? You know, so I think I don't, it's not gonna be a message board or community for that. I want to offer stuff, and then if people want to talk about it, they got their own ways to talk about it, you know. Because I'm not there for the praise or the hate. It's more like, well, this is what I'm gonna offer. I hope you like it, whether it's a podcast with a song, a photo, a promotion, like, you know, got a concert coming up. Other than that, then I'll delete the app off my phone so I'm not scrolling, and when I have something to post, reload it.

[23:40] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, right.

[23:41] Ramin Karimloo: Wow. It just takes a lot of our time.

[23:43] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[23:45] Ramin Karimloo: Only because it's my fault. Because then the next thing you know, I've been scrolling for 40 minutes. I'm like, I could have been reading a chapter in an hour, right? If I've got nothing to do, you know. But that's for me, you know. So I want to go back because I do want to talk about how you like to because I we're very similar about why we get into business. Cause the idea of like dissecting a character and all, that's what interests me into this. It's like I don't know what you're like. When I'm on stage, I want to be the star. Yeah, great. I want to take control, be the man. When that curtain comes down, if I could snap my fingers, be home and watching TV, perfect, you know. So going back to the height of Phantom in Toronto, was that an amazing time before the bubble burst when live and crashed?

[24:27] Laird Mackintosh: Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, it was, uh, I mean, then as now, I couldn't believe my luck to be in that show. I just absolutely loved it. I thought I would never because the experience of just walking into the Pantages, because they've redone that. When you walk in, you're in the world of phantoms.

[24:43] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, it was a beautiful theater.

[24:45] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah. And the production was, um, everything that Live Ant always did, you know. It was like when I walked out on the stage on Broadway, I was like, wow, uh, this is like time traveling. I mean, it's absolutely identical in every way. Um, and, um, yeah, I got, I mean, Hal did come up to Toronto a couple times. Gillian Lynn came up. I met them both up. Wasn't she awesome?

[25:09] Ramin Karimloo: Awesome.

[25:10] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah. And I got to work with both of them on Broadway as well, which was really, you know, like, uh, uh, something to remember. Um, yeah, I mean, I loved it. I was, I was there when I joined the show in ninety, I mean, it was thirty years ago this year. I joined in ninety-three.

[25:26] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[25:26] Laird Mackintosh: I don't know I said it.

[25:29] Ramin Karimloo: Laird, you look exactly the same, man.

[25:32] Laird Mackintosh: I wish, I wish. But can you have maybe longer floppier hair as well, but that's the only difference.

[25:38] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, right, right. Well, that was back in the days when we had like just giant sideburns, like gigantic. I remember the Miz or something, you know.

[25:46] Laird Mackintosh: But, uh, um, yeah, no, I, uh, Calm was in the show. He was still there. I was there for the last six months of his run. So he left in the fall, I think of ninety, no, no, it couldn't have been. Maybe the beginning of ninety-five, something like that. That's right. And, uh, I think it was December twelfth, if you know, I don't know. I'm just, I'm guessing. It doesn't matter.

[26:06] Ramin Karimloo: Okay.

[26:07] Laird Mackintosh: Right. So he was, I loved watching him. I mean, I was a real like bun head for phantom stuff. I mean, I watched, yeah, I have to admit, I was pretty much obsessed with his performance. And I would finish my bit in the whatever it was in the first act and stood in the wings and literally watched every music of the night that he did for six months. I just stood there, you know, holding on to this ladder and watching him. It was because, and I thought, why isn't everybody in the wings watching this performance every night? You know, do you know?

[26:40] Ramin Karimloo: Um, as Enjolras and well, I because any show I could, I'd watch in the wings. And I remember even as Valjean in London, I'd be watching when I wasn't on stage or needing changes. And stage managers went, You're always watching. I'm like, what else am I gonna do? I can learn, you know.

[26:56] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[26:58] Ramin Karimloo: And whether it's something, even if the performance you're watching, I'm like, that doesn't resonate with me. But then it puts into question why you're sitting, you're always thinking, right? Otherwise, I'd be sat in my room.

[27:09] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[27:10] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. So more so now, but yeah, me too. But as a young performer, you're hungry for that and definitely trying to figure it out. And I was aware that like it was a lucky moment that I was in this show with him, you know.

[27:26] Laird Mackintosh: And, uh, I did my first Raoul with him, you know, and I remember he was very gracious. Like I remember he came out during the bows and did his bow and then he grabbed me and like pushed me forward. You know, it's really cool. And, and, uh, and I know that you ended up really having a relationship with him, and because we we've watched the, you know, the duet from Le Miz.

[27:48] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, that's legendary.

[27:50] Laird Mackintosh: Which we've got a beautiful moment. Every now and again I'll get a call. Ramin, it's Calm. You know, I'm in New York, you want to jam? Oh, great, and you'll come up and let's think no, I'm sitting playing guitars with Colin Wilkinson. I'm no like they're still a 12 year old and he's like, hmm, holy shit. You gotta get him on this.

[28:06] Ramin Karimloo: Well, he's so, you know, he's aloof now. I think he's moved back to Ireland.

[28:10] Laird Mackintosh: Has he?

[28:10] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[28:11] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, I didn't know that.

[28:11] Ramin Karimloo: Is that right?

[28:12] Laird Mackintosh: That's why I believe.

[28:13] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. Well, last time I saw him was at your opening night of Le Miz here in New York. I was there, and I'm, it's intermission, and I was walking through the lobby and I came around a corner and there's Calm.

[28:27] Laird Mackintosh: And his voice still.

[28:30] Ramin Karimloo: How are you? You know, and yeah, he's, he's, I mean, he was, uh, well, and that Le Miz performance. I mean, I was also from my youngest time, I remember even before Phantom, like when I was in Calgary, I think it was, was it a PBS great performances or something, but they had that broadcast of the Le Miz. I guess it was, was it the 10th anniversary or something? So Philip Quas, that Royal Abraham Hall. You know, how could that be? Anyway, I remember, no, I know what it was. It was the broadcast of the Tony, the Broadway the Tony Awards thing, because it was when I was very young, so it would have been whatever that was, eighty-seven or something, that Le Miz was on the Tony Awards, right? I was still at home in Calgary, you know, and I just that that five-minute performance that they did.

I remember just being so struck, as everyone was by Calm and, and then, you know, to meet him in Toronto. It was so weird that all those like because Garth got all those performers up to Toronto to work for Live Ant that I mean, you wouldn't really have seen up there in Toronto. I mean, that's another thing that he did. Unfortunately, they were, you know, they were somehow the problem robbing Peter to pay Paul, but you know, I mean, they, yeah, they weren't making the cash they said they were making, but they had unbelievable people up there.

[29:53] Laird Mackintosh: So it was very cool. But um, yeah, that's so cool that you have that moment, like, you know, the mantle being passed and him, you know, singing that duet together. That's awesome. That's probably one of my favorite moments of my career because of what it meant and who it was, and in that moment. I remember I couldn't get through the soliloquy that night. I was like, but I want to and you've done more Phantom, but it may be remiss of me not to dive more into a lot of things.

[30:24] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, well, I want to dive into what is the Phantom reference on your Instagram?

[30:28] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, we're gonna be. I can't leave here without talking about that because by the time this comes out, that should be announced. So we'll get there. But I want to know about when you first donned the mask. What was that like? Was that in Toronto?

[30:41] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, that was in Toronto. So, you know, just following along with what we were talking about, I guess being a little bit, you know, there's a very potent mix, which is like, you know, confidence and total naivety, right? Which I had that, and I guess I was a bit, you know, I was pretty bold when I was young, and I can remember like, you know, I was in the ensemble, I started covering Raoul, and I think I must have been, I guess I had started playing Raoul, but somewhere in there I said to our dance captain, you know, I want to start working on the Phantom. And I convinced her, and she was very supportive, and she was kind of my person who took it to the powers that be. But I remember one of the conductors there saying to me, Laird, don't, you're still working on Raoul, don't, you know, like kind of like this is sort of a don't get above, yeah, you know, like don't start talking about and I was I was 26, right? Like I think I was 26 when I played the Phantom for the first time.

[31:57] Ramin Karimloo: Yes, we have the same story.

[31:59] Laird Mackintosh: Right. So I was that was in the day, like I think you really brought in or were happening as this thing was coming where the Phantom was getting a little younger, you know, because like when I was in the show, it was all Chris Gronendahl, Peter Carey, Colm Wilkinson, who probably younger than me now, but they at the time I thought of them as older guys with a bit of the gray in the hair, you know, and they played that element of the Phantom that was like the father. And he's taken advantage of this, knowing that she is associating him with her father. And, you know, she says in the story, you deceived me. Like I and what's the line, far from your father engaged, you know, like he manipulates that idea that she's susceptible to this missing her father and believing that he's the angel of music that her father talked about.

And so there's this young couple, Raoul and Christine, and then there's this, there's an older figure, and I those lines have equaled out a little bit now. And I suppose that's like kind of a trend in general of theater and Broadway and all that, that because when I was doing the Mary Poppins, you know, I went into that show and thought I'm gonna be Bert. I'll understudy the role of Bert, the young, you know. And they saw me immediately as Mr. Banks, you know, and I was like 35 or whatever, right?

[33:36] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, it's a great part, great part.

[33:39] Laird Mackintosh: But I wasn't thinking in terms of that. So, however, you know, like when I was in Phantom at the ripe old age of 26, I was like, I want to play the Phantom, you know. And I think it was because I reacted so much, as I'm sure is the same with you. Like, you know, you react to the music in that show, and the character is so potent. Um that well, for whatever reason, I thought, you know, I thought, like, oh, I can do this. I think I can do this part. And so, you know, like I got they were willing to take me as the second understudy or third understudy or whatever it was.

[34:18] Ramin Karimloo: That's great.

[34:19] Laird Mackintosh: But I did, you know, I played it not a lot in Toronto, but maybe 25 times. I didn't keep track, you know. I don't I can't remember when my first one was or my last, and I but when I came to New York, I thought I'm gonna have a little book, and I wrote down the date of my first, who the Raoul was, who the Christine was, and who was conducting. You know, so I have this book now and I know exactly when I really, yeah, yeah.

[34:45] Ramin Karimloo: You still keep it?

[34:46] Laird Mackintosh: I actually have forgot to keep it this time back. Like I came back in October. They needed a Phantom cover in October, November of last year, just because they had a couple guys out and someone got injured, and suddenly they, you know, I was off the tour, My Fair Lady ended, and um I got really lucky that's boom, suddenly I was back in Phantom, but not in the show, just covering, yeah, covering the wings.

[35:11] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, I gotta tell you my Paul Stanley story.

[35:13] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, speaking of covering the wings, maybe. Maybe I told you this before, but anyways, so then and then I did two in October, November, and then um this time I've done one a couple weeks ago, and uh and my last show is March 6th, and I'm doing a Phantom on my last show because I'm just covering six and Monday?

[35:31] Ramin Karimloo: Monday, March 6th.

[35:32] Laird Mackintosh: I'm just covering I'm coming.

[35:34] Ramin Karimloo: Oh no.

[35:35] Laird Mackintosh: No, no, you gotta get a ticket.

[35:37] Ramin Karimloo: Jerry, I can get you tickets, sure.

[35:39] Laird Mackintosh: I'll come watch your last Phantom.

[35:40] Ramin Karimloo: Really?

[35:40] Laird Mackintosh: Hundred percent.

[35:41] Ramin Karimloo: Oh my god.

[35:42] Laird Mackintosh: Count me in.

[35:43] Ramin Karimloo: Oh geez, I gotta I better start warming up like right now.

[35:46] Laird Mackintosh: I want to talk to you about keeping your voice in longevity in a second.

[35:49] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, so you Oh March.

[35:52] Laird Mackintosh: So dude, I'll be there.

[35:55] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I mean, oh sure, let me know. I'd love it.

[35:57] Laird Mackintosh: I'd be honored.

[35:59] Ramin Karimloo: Oh my god.

[35:59] Laird Mackintosh: Well, see the guy too bad.

[36:01] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I mean, I yeah, I mean I've I just might not be out before March 6th, but yeah, you know, I'm I'm uh that's an interesting question, like keeping your voice.

[36:13] Laird Mackintosh: Um let me ask you this. After a year of doing Banks, I don't know that role musically. How far off is that from Phantom?

[36:24] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, it's very it's a very there's very little singing in it.

[36:27] Laird Mackintosh: Mr. Banks or My Fair Lady, yeah.

[36:30] Ramin Karimloo: Mr. Banks, yeah, Mr. Banks.

[36:30] Laird Mackintosh: Sorry, pop what tour did you come off?

[36:33] Ramin Karimloo: My Fair Lady, uh Henry Higgins.

[36:35] Laird Mackintosh: It sounds like what I was doing with Cobra, where we're like making up different titles. I'm like, oh no, no, this is actual message.

[36:40] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, so the last three years basically I left Phantom on Broadway. I was in Phantom here for six years on Broadway.

[36:44] Laird Mackintosh: Right.

[36:46] Ramin Karimloo: And you know, it's funny, like after Toronto, and 20 years later, I got into the show here, but I just was older and playing one of the managers now, right?

[36:56] Laird Mackintosh: Covering the Phantom.

[36:58] Ramin Karimloo: And of course, I said, I will never, ever, ever leave this show now, you know, having left it once in Toronto, and then now the opportunity to do it again here.

[37:07] Laird Mackintosh: And why?

[37:07] Ramin Karimloo: Still passionate about it?

[37:08] Laird Mackintosh: Of course, we want security as actors and realizing that it's just the best job around.

[37:13] Ramin Karimloo: I mean, because yeah, well, I mean, if you're gonna be like, you know, a working actor in the business, and you get it, you realize, which I didn't realize when I was 25 years old in Phantom in Toronto, that how unusual a show is that runs this long. I mean, it's so unusual, it's never happened before. So I just got to a stage in my life when I said I'm sure I'm gonna keep acting, and I'm sure I'll have 25 more years of being. I mean, that's how I was thinking of it. Like, I'm gonna be an actor until I can't do it anymore.

[37:49] Laird Mackintosh: Um, that's how I've always thought of it.

[37:51] Ramin Karimloo: And so you think, man, I'll stay in Phantom for as long as I can, especially because you get the chance to play a great role, and it's also unusual when you're understudying because I don't I did wasn't just playing the manager, Andre, you know, every once in a while I'd have this opportunity to completely change things up, and you get to go on for the guy for the Phantom, which I loved.

[38:14] Laird Mackintosh: Um, and so but then you know, I went and saw the production of My Fair Lady up at Lincoln Center.

[38:24] Ramin Karimloo: Am I pointing the right way?

[38:25] Laird Mackintosh: Which way is south?

[38:26] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, that up this way, yeah, yeah.

[38:29] Laird Mackintosh: Um, and you know, I saw that production and just thought, oh, if I can never get into this, you know, and I told my agents, and then the tour came up, so I went out on the road. We got shut down because of COVID, but we were lucky because we did come back. So, you know, I thought I would be gone from the city for a year, but I ended up being out of New York City for three years, basically, a little bit more.

[38:54] Ramin Karimloo: And that's gone so fast.

[38:56] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, it is just like time that disappeared.

[38:58] Ramin Karimloo: I mean, it's vanished.

[38:59] Laird Mackintosh: But my question is then okay. So, doing that, what was the voice?

[39:04] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, well, the vocal demands of that were high, but not in the same way that Phantom is, right?

[39:11] Laird Mackintosh: Because famously that role of Henry Higgins, it, you know, Rex Harrison was famous for having kind of you know, sort of created this sing speak way of doing and it was written for him for Rex Harrison in a very narrow because he wasn't a singer in a you know, like an octave, very small range.

[39:30] Ramin Karimloo: Um, and they did not, and a lot of the musical line is actually written in the score, spoken, it's not written like a line because everybody comes into Henry Higgins and says, I will be the actor who sings the whole thing, you know.

[39:43] Laird Mackintosh: But it doesn't really lend itself to that.

[39:46] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[39:46] Laird Mackintosh: Um, it's better if you do that kind of speaking sing speak sort of thing.

[39:51] Ramin Karimloo: But our director, Bart, Bart Shear, wanted this production to be very argumentative and what's the word, like contentious and not aggressive, but yeah, aggressive in a way. And he wanted to get the arguments out there, and he wanted Higgins to be severe. And um I found doing the show, I mean, it was a joy to know that I was playing that part, but we were doing one week sit-downs traveling on the day off during COVID. It was very hard to do it during COVID, and we would do a five-show weekend, and the show's three hours long, and like two hours of that was me speaking or shouting, you know.

[40:33] Laird Mackintosh: So I felt exhausted all the time.

[40:36] Ramin Karimloo: And I just I was aware this is making me feel somewhat validated with what I'm going through, but can you really?

[40:43] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[40:44] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I was aware that I was my voice was really getting tired and was I mean, I would be raw all the time. And I if I ever tried to sing something, you know, I just thought, okay, I've kind of lost my voice for you know, this is exactly what I'm so okay. So if I if during that tour, let's say after show four, I'm like, go sing music of the night. You know, when you hit sore, that's called falsetto. Could you do it?

[41:09] Laird Mackintosh: I could probably do the falsetto more easily than I could do the you know, the full note.

[41:15] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, really?

[41:16] Laird Mackintosh: I'm the opposite.

[41:17] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, like my range came down, you know.

[41:19] Laird Mackintosh: I really lost that upper range because I wasn't working it.

[41:23] Ramin Karimloo: And when I was doing Phantom in on Broadway, I was Andre is the exact same range as the Phantom.

[41:29] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, because Andre sings that G sharp the A flat.

[41:33] Ramin Karimloo: And so I would be doing that every night, you know.

[41:36] Laird Mackintosh: So it just kept your voice right in the pocket for singing Phantom.

[41:40] Ramin Karimloo: But I guess that's like anything. If you're finding a year of Nick Arnstein, I'm going, I thought this on paper, I didn't think Nick Arnstein was gonna be taxing. Me, it is from and I've realized now it's maybe the shouting and then singing is so it's down in your boots because it's that sort of old school swing, and then temporary arrangement. Okay, we found some juicy notes at the top, but I think with all the shouting and that tension, and I found Valjean easier because wow, at least Valjean, you park and bark, it sits there the whole time.

[42:11] Laird Mackintosh: There's almost a different care you take for it.

[42:14] Ramin Karimloo: Where Nick Arnstein, I guess you can be reckless.

[42:18] Laird Mackintosh: So I don't know with Higgins.

[42:20] Ramin Karimloo: There's this reckless because if you some nights you just the energy's there and bubbling. Then afterwards, like, oh my gosh.

[42:26] Laird Mackintosh: Oh yeah.

[42:27] Ramin Karimloo: I mean I just threw caution to the wind and thought I'm gonna go for this. And I was I thought, you know, when I get off this tour, I'll take a break, which is what happened, and then I'll kind of come back and see where my singing.

[42:39] Laird Mackintosh: Actually, that's something that I feel in my the span of this career, you know, way back, way back in the beginning, I was interested in singing just purely for there was nothing deeper than just loving music and um a real kind of joy in singing. I was one of those kids, like, you know, in the house, I'd be just singing at the top of my lungs all the time. Unfortunately, you know, my mom would be like, Sing, she's like the Phantom sing, you know. She loved it, right? And then as I got older, I became more self-conscious of it. And you're living in an apartment in New York and you can't sing, you know, because the walls are thin and you don't want to destroy it.

[43:20] Ramin Karimloo: You sing into a pillow to hit.

[43:20] Laird Mackintosh: I have sung into a pillow, it's a water before, yeah. I do it even in the dressing room still. I still don't like people hearing me.

[43:27] Ramin Karimloo: Right, I know.

[43:27] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, it's it's so um that I would like to get back to, and almost to the point of, you know, if I'm out of a show for a while, I think I'd like to go back and try to. I never really felt like I grasped fully proper technique, you know, for singing. And I certainly these days I think like I've found a way to do the Phantom, but um it for me it was always like I would be going to those high notes and just praying, you know, because uh and sp more so now, you know, because I I it's um and I suppose that's that's a part of the excitement for the audience is it's written in that way. Like it is not a it's not a PNG high C thing where it's written in that passaggio where the high notes are right on the flip for a guy's gonna be.

[44:19] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, do you know what sometimes I thought, man, if this was higher, it'd be easier.

[44:22] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[44:23] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[44:23] Ramin Karimloo: If you had that real high tenor voice, it would be easier.

[44:27] Laird Mackintosh: Um, but I don't know, where it sits for me, it's it's hard for sure. Um but that's that's part of I think the audience is aware of that and they're like holding their breath for you as you go up to those notes.

[44:38] Laird Mackintosh: So this phantom is and everyone's like, you know, on stage for 30 minutes. No. It's no it's much harder than you think it is. And I always say is anyone who says that's never done it. Yeah, it's it's I would completely agree with that. It certainly is the most the hardest, most demanding part that I've done. And partly it is because they want you to have there it is from the first note it's full of that yeah, you know, tension and a yeah, yeah. You're you're you you you come off stage and you're you're um soaking wet with sweat, you know. And also the costumes are they look amazing, but they're very the makeup and everything is very uncomfortable. And I don't miss that bald cap on the neck. No, yeah.

It would be on the pillow, the rubber would be all over the pillow, every stiffness right. Because you then carry yourself, and I don't know what your process as the phantom is, but there's a different animal physicality to it. Then you add that tension here. But in the end of night, I'm like, I need to roll. Right. Uh I would definitely start taking care of my body better. Well, I do now, anyways. Uh the way I work out now, I would never I never was was like that in Phantom. Or I think it would serve me well now.

[45:45] Ramin Karimloo: But going back to just to finish off what you're saying about your voice, when you finished Higgins and you took that break, did you find all your muscles were going back to where they were when you started doing Phantom again?

[45:55] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah. I did uh and any concerns you had during the tour were they alleviated? So you didn't lose your voice?

[46:01] Ramin Karimloo: No, no, I heard you recently as a phantom on a recording. I'm like, man, you sound great.

[46:06] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, thanks for me. Sounds fresh, it's spinning out there, and it sounds like you're in control of it. You're doing what you want with it.

[46:14] Ramin Karimloo: That's what I loved about it.

[46:15] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, well, thanks. Um if I'm perfectly honest, I've been warming up singing along with you.

[46:19] Ramin Karimloo: No way.

[46:20] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah.

[46:20] Ramin Karimloo: Oh my god.

[46:21] Laird Mackintosh: Wow, that's cool. Well, um, yeah, I it came back for the most part, except that I haven't fully explored, like really trying to, you know, um get up into the stratosphere with those notes again, you know.

[46:36] Ramin Karimloo: Because you're still off stage standby.

[46:39] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, yeah.

[46:40] Ramin Karimloo: So that's I'm an understudy now, so I'm just you know you're not on the in the show, so you're not gonna be able to do that.

[46:44] Laird Mackintosh: No, no, so right now I am in the show. So a guy broke his leg in the cast in the ensemble, literally broke his femur, took a tumble down the masquerade stairs during the show.

[46:54] Ramin Karimloo: No, yeah, Richard Poole, who plays Lefebvre, so poor guy. He he had extensive recovery, and he was he's been in the show, I think, for like 24 years and 11 months or something. And he was not going to be able to come back because of the original closing date. But then they announced they're extending for one month, and he said, I can come back from my therapy for the last month.

[47:18] Laird Mackintosh: Right.

[47:19] Ramin Karimloo: So we had a guy, Stephen Tewkesbury in our cast who was filling in for him, and he got Sweeney Todd, so he left. And suddenly, once again, they were like called me, yeah, like a week before and said, Do you want to come in and you know um be this guy in the ensemble?

[47:34] Laird Mackintosh: And so I've gone full circle. I'm back, I'm in the ensemble covering the phantom. And you know, I go out there and have a little bit as Lefebvre at the beginning of the show. I have to say, like, I'm it's special circumstances right now, you know, because the show is closing and there's such a emotional feeling in the theater.

[47:52] Ramin Karimloo: It's packed, yeah.

[47:53] Laird Mackintosh: Nice, and they they were in a in a in a pinch, and I said, Yeah, sure, I'll come in and do that. And uh, but I it's after Higgins for all that time, it was so intense. I have to say, I'm kind of enjoying being a little having a little bit of a lighter load.

[48:07] Ramin Karimloo: Good.

[48:08] Laird Mackintosh: And then I get to once in a while go on for the phantom, which is like I'm like this is the job to have, you know, you get to go out there and do it.

[48:15] Ramin Karimloo: And how was your first time back as fan on on this occasion vocally? And what at that point did you feel ready?

[48:22] Laird Mackintosh: Um, yeah, yeah, I felt ready.

[48:24] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, this last time that I did a couple weeks ago, yeah, I felt really good. I got prepared. My first one in November was like I was just flying on adrenaline, you know, because I hadn't done it for three years, right?

[48:36] Laird Mackintosh: So you're tempted to sort of say, Oh, I remember everything, and then but when you get out there, there's a lot of complicated stagecraft, as you know more than anybody, you know, and there's a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with the performance or the performing of the role and singing, it has to do with like where's this flame thing that I'm shooting, and where does the you have to get off the boat and stick the ore in at the right time and not fall over, and the cape's gotta not get caught under your feet, and you know, all these different things that are what you're actually thinking about when you're performing the role, but the audience is just seeing this, you know, what looks it's supposed to be effortless.

[49:13] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, do you like being up in the angel? Does that freak you out?

[49:16] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, no, that doesn't freak me out. I like that.

[49:18] Ramin Karimloo: I like that because I know that people are gonna be surprised when you pop out you know when you're like a toad, madam, perhaps it is do you do what Peter Carey used to do?

[49:25] Laird Mackintosh: He would stand on the railing, no lean down.

[49:29] Ramin Karimloo: No, I I think back now, and then when I was fan, I'm like, no fucking way I'm standing away.

[49:34] Laird Mackintosh: Why?

[49:34] Ramin Karimloo: No, no kidding.

[49:35] Laird Mackintosh: Well, they you they now we are carabine or we're hooked onto the angel here, and there was no there was no uh tether uh in Toronto. You just sat in the angel and you stood up on the thing, and there was nothing you were just trying to run for dear life.

[49:50] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, so no, thank you.

[49:52] Laird Mackintosh: No, no kidding. I know, I know. But so tell me what's uh so can you can you say what this is?

[49:57] Ramin Karimloo: Well I'll say and of course everybody at Phantom was like Yeah, I well, here's the thing. So I've I've been approached to do this new production because we know it's closed on Broadway, Broadway Italia wants to do a new production of Phantom.

[50:14] Laird Mackintosh: That's gonna hopefully do a world tour, and then who knows? Maybe that's what we'll come back. We'll see.

[50:18] Ramin Karimloo: So they asked me, are you interested? And then I'm always like, I don't know, I don't know. And obviously I've been going through a tough time and my voice and all that. But I I for some reason, because when I obviously born in Iran and we escaped as refugees to Italy, something just said, take the phone call. And it my whole life's been uh been about instincts, which we're very similar in that sentence.

[50:41] Laird Mackintosh: So I started talking to Fede and he said, Ramin, I gotta tell you, transparent. The original production, as far as I'm concerned, is a masterpiece. And I've always thought that. Because I'd I said you're it's not about bettering it, it's about how do we continue it in this day and age of financial climates, because that's what it comes down to. Otherwise, it wouldn't be closing. If it was making money, it would stay. So I get it. And I'm like, for me, the star of the show is Maria Bjornsson. Andrew and how amazing. But what it looks like, and what she did to bring the story music together is breathtaking.

[51:16] Ramin Karimloo: So the fact that he is such a fan of the first, now I'm listening. Because I'm like, I'm I'm now just a fan. You know, I'm no longer a phantom. I'm not part of the any company. So the more we started talking, I was like, and my commitment is so short. It's like a three-week run in Trieste, then maybe two weeks in Milan, maybe three weeks in Monte Carlo, and then it will go on from there.

[51:37] Laird Mackintosh: Oh my god.

[51:38] Ramin Karimloo: And if I'm great places as a fan, and then as a maybe a potential phantom again to help from ground up again, but still trying to hold on as much as we can to the original, like, don't change for the sake of change.

[51:51] Laird Mackintosh: It's how can we continue the story?

[51:53] Ramin Karimloo: How can we continue this beautiful show that's still touches everyone, you know? And if there's a way of because I do think it'll come back to Broadway, and if I can have a hand in that, why not? Because I want to see it back up.

[52:04] Laird Mackintosh: It should be here, it shouldn't be closing.

[52:08] Ramin Karimloo: But again, it is what it is financially. I get it. It's I think a lot of people don't realize how expensive shows are now. Like it blows my mind.

[52:19] Laird Mackintosh: So that's the plan.

[52:20] Ramin Karimloo: So then I just thought, I'll put those little teasers out there, and it's amazing. All these years, no matter what I put out, people will still talk about Phantom, and they'll correlate it with Phantom.

[52:29] Laird Mackintosh: So it's none of my doing, it's just, and I'm blessed that I can still be part of it, even though I haven't touched the mask in like 12 years, you know.

[52:37] Ramin Karimloo: But then I do a little teaser, the ripples it cost, and even to like as you were about to say, your production, and I think some of the higher ups there were like, why is he sweeting that?

[52:48] Laird Mackintosh: I'm like, you gave me this clothes to wear, they sent me those off, so I'm gonna wear it.

[52:53] Ramin Karimloo: But you know, I don't know if you're like bullish like me. Sometimes when when people almost want to say don't do that, you're like, do it again, you know.

[53:01] Laird Mackintosh: I'm like, I'm here to just push the show and push like a bit of you know, get some buzz going.

[53:07] Ramin Karimloo: But this is this is a another producer. This Broadway Italia, yeah.

[53:12] Laird Mackintosh: But it's working with rug still, so it's in conjunction with them.

[53:15] Ramin Karimloo: So everyone's got their eyes on it, and obviously we want to do it right. We want to we want to honor what's already amazing.

[53:22] Laird Mackintosh: That's amazing.

[53:23] Ramin Karimloo: I agree with you about the original production. I mean, I'm I'm sorry, it's uh uh I mean I'm enthusiastic about any phantom production, but there's a special magic.

[53:33] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, I don't think it needs changing.

[53:35] Ramin Karimloo: Okay, maybe some of the tricks you can update knowing now, but because it's 35 years old, yeah.

[53:40] Laird Mackintosh: But I'm not saying I don't think it needs to be changed.

[53:44] Ramin Karimloo: Yes, how can we keep this going but make it financially viable for everyone?

[53:48] Laird Mackintosh: So everyone's happy.

[53:50] Ramin Karimloo: I don't know, I'm not a producer. But if there's a way we can get this going, then and if not, man, I got to go to Italy. My the home that took us in when my country was sadly going to what it's going through now, still.

[54:03] Laird Mackintosh: And I've always thought if I ever do Phantom again, I want to do it somewhere different, you know.

[54:09] Ramin Karimloo: I always in my head thought it'd be Japan, but alas.

[54:12] Laird Mackintosh: Where did you go in Italy when you first went there?

[54:15] Ramin Karimloo: Outside of Rome in Australia.

[54:17] Laird Mackintosh: Ostia by the sea, yeah.

[54:19] Ramin Karimloo: Right? That was my first home. Because I was in when I was born in Iran, I was probably there two, three months, and that's it. And then Italy for the first two, three years of my life.

[54:28] Laird Mackintosh: So that's gonna be something special for me on a personal level.

[54:33] Ramin Karimloo: And then I but I'm worried, man. I need to finish doing Arnstein.

[54:36] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, don't be worried.

[54:39] Ramin Karimloo: Don't be worried.

[54:40] Laird Mackintosh: I can tell you, I mean, I think, no, listen, I you are you kidding me? I mean, and the voice I think is a extremely resilient.

[54:47] Ramin Karimloo: I hope so.

[54:48] Laird Mackintosh: And it's the delicacy of Phantom that I'm finding I don't because I haven't used those muscles.

[54:54] Ramin Karimloo: Like if I go sing bring him home now, hey, those that that delicacy of the prayer is not there.

[55:00] Laird Mackintosh: Well, I think I the high rock stuff.

[55:02] Ramin Karimloo: I think that will come back.

[55:03] Laird Mackintosh: I I think you could get that back for sure.

[55:07] Ramin Karimloo: You know, you compare that you you're gonna have to.

[55:07] Laird Mackintosh: You're gonna have to.

[55:10] Ramin Karimloo: No, I mean you're that's that's very exciting. You're just you're so I didn't upset any of the actors that all over there in Bromwater.

[55:16] Laird Mackintosh: No, no, no, not at all.

[55:17] Ramin Karimloo: No, no, no, no, no.

[55:18] Laird Mackintosh: No, and and my wife Pauly just said, find out what what's he talking about.

[55:23] Ramin Karimloo: I thought you guys would have known.

[55:24] Laird Mackintosh: No, Ramin, I thought you were bringing me in here to tell me that I I said I think he's gonna be doing it in the West End again.

[55:30] Ramin Karimloo: And then and then I thought, wait a minute, maybe he's bringing me in to tell me I'm doing it in the West End.

[55:34] Laird Mackintosh: Would you like to do it in West me and hand me the Do you want to keep doing a phantom?

[55:39] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, of course.

[55:40] Laird Mackintosh: Sure.

[55:42] Ramin Karimloo: If you need a uh if you need an uh an Andre, you know, give me give me a call, I'll cover you.

[55:47] Laird Mackintosh: But um, yeah, it that that's you I mean you have years and years and years to be continuing with Phantom, and I think that's awesome.

[55:57] Ramin Karimloo: You you should be for sure, man.

[55:59] Laird Mackintosh: That's why would you not do that?

[56:01] Ramin Karimloo: And as you say, I mean, the opportunity to be in um wonderful places doing it, that's something to consider for sure.

[56:10] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, yeah.

[56:11] Ramin Karimloo: Uh congrats.

[56:12] Laird Mackintosh: That's amazing.

[56:13] Ramin Karimloo: That is amazing.

[56:14] Laird Mackintosh: Oh, this is a secret though. I can't say anything until I till this airs.

[56:20] Ramin Karimloo: Well, you'll have announced here and now for yeah.

[56:23] Laird Mackintosh: Hopefully they're gonna announce it this week.

[56:25] Ramin Karimloo: Okay.

[56:26] Laird Mackintosh: I thought they were gonna announce it today when we're filming this podcast.

[56:31] Ramin Karimloo: That's why I did that previous Me deadlifting with the Phantom show. Because I'm like, wait, they're about to announce it and they're like, oh, we're delaying it. I'm like, well, now I've prolonged a tease.

[56:38] Laird Mackintosh: It was never meant to go this long.

[56:40] Ramin Karimloo: You were supposed to announce it last week.

[56:41] Laird Mackintosh: Well, I won't say anything.

[56:43] Ramin Karimloo: Um, I can't wait to see you as Phantom.

[56:46] Laird Mackintosh: Oh my god.

[56:47] Ramin Karimloo: Jeez, talk about now.

[56:48] Laird Mackintosh: I'm I'm gonna have to get into serious no warming up for the next one.

[56:53] Ramin Karimloo: We didn't get to talk about it much.

[56:54] Laird Mackintosh: Man, we gotta have you back.

[56:55] Ramin Karimloo: But I wanted to I would talk, I wanted to talk about how you would dissect a character.

[56:59] Laird Mackintosh: So very quickly, it's going on as Phantom and coming in as a cover and whatnot. Obviously, obviously I don't know how the Broadway production is run, it's its own identity. But do you still get to do you feel like this is what my phantom I'm bringing to the production?

[57:16] Ramin Karimloo: Like obviously there's blocking, that doesn't change, but this the psyche of the phantom, where how you approach it, how your backstory, how you want it to as an actor.

[57:26] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I hope so. We're we're and there's four or five of us who are doing it there right now, and we're all definitely different, you know.

[57:34] Ramin Karimloo: And I think um I love that.

[57:36] Laird Mackintosh: Yeah, it has to be.

[57:37] Ramin Karimloo: I mean there is a a cookie cutter is the wrong word because that makes it sound very, but there is a form and a shape to it that's yeah, because there's lighting, there's because it works, you know, and also because it's what works, and um but yeah, within that, I think I'm being myself, you know, in it, and that's people are always responding I think to you know you you bring yourself to it you know so I think that that's what hopefully gives it it's the the flavor that is you and makes you distinct from other people because people do you know the fans of the show they come and see they want to see all the different guys they pick someone that they relate to more and so obviously you are being an individual when you go out there and and you're not just uh you know some performance that people can't uh discriminate from other ones you know which which is nice I think so oh man I'm so we're gonna have to do this again and also hang out some more you too the time the time flew thank you thanks for having me yeah yeah it's so good to see you Laird the young lad from from the stage door in in Toronto unbelievable who doesn't look so young you on the other hand yeah too bad we couldn't be like shooting a documentary from those early days of you that would have been amazing or of us with a similar pass man yeah both wore the mask at 26 I love that yeah right right awesome all right but will you come back at some point love to yeah anytime thanks for me okay man I came up I could have talked for hours.