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[0:00] Ken Davenport: And then, you know, once that was over, he started asking us questions and got us back on track and you know, thinking like writers again. And but you know, it's great to have people like that in the community that you can turn to and go, like, I am overwhelmed. What what what what do I need to do? What get me back, you know, sort of and going in the right direction. I wanna be a producer with a hit show on Broadway.

[0:24] Ken Davenport: You're listening to the Producers Perspective Podcast with your host, Tony Award winner, Ken Davenport.

[0:31] Ken Davenport: Her range needs expanding. Her edges need standing, but she can be calm sure.

[0:44] Ken Davenport: That's Tony nominee Beth Level from one of this season's best musical Tony Award nominees, The Prom. We've got the book writer and lyricist to The Prom on the podcast this week.

[0:56] Ken Davenport: Chad Beguelin. He's gonna tell you all about the show and all about his incredible career. He's been nominated six times for these Tony Awards. Um I mean, first of all, before I isn't Beth Level just amazing.

[1:08] Ken Davenport: Why I wish you could see there's no reason to fret someone. She's got cords of steel, this woman. Cords of steel. I worked with her on Showboat back in 19 something. Anyway, before we get to Chad, The Prom and everything else on this week's podcast, let me tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Long Room.

[1:31] Ken Davenport: 120 West 44th. It's a bar, it's a restaurant, it's a good time establishment. Get the wings, they are amazing. Get the oysters as well. I actually don't know that firsthand because I don't like oysters, but everyone tells me they are also amazing. Go visit The Long Room. Thank them for supporting this podcast and the theater. Tell them the Producer's Perspective Podcast sent you.

[1:55] Ken Davenport: They'll give you something free. I actually don't know that's true. I made that up, but hopefully they will. Alright, let's go to this episode.

[2:03] Ken Davenport: But before we do, a little bit more of Beth Level and The Prom.

[2:07] Ken Davenport: So don't make a move. You'll regret.

[2:12] Ken Davenport: So we're begging you, sir. Now we're thinking on her.

[2:36] Ken Davenport: Hello everybody, it's Ken Davenport. Welcome back to the Producers Perspective Podcast. I'm very excited. It is Tony season. Everyone's very excited. And we've got another nominee on the podcast today, which is actually really not new for this guy.

[2:50] Ken Davenport: He's been nominated six damn times already. But please welcome to the podcast, Mr. Chad Beguelin. Welcome, Chad.

[2:56] Chad Beguelin: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[2:58] Ken Davenport: Which, by the way, Chad just told me a great way to remember how to pronounce his name, which is If you want a part in Hamilton, you've got to beg Lynn. So now you'll never forget it. Now you know why he's a writer.

[3:10] Ken Davenport: He is just to give a few of his credits, the book writer and lyricist for this season's breakout hit The Prom, which had both Ben Brantley and Jesse Green calling it the should win best musical of the year, which is how exciting.

[3:22] Ken Davenport: Let's just start there. I'm gonna forget the rest of the bio because when two New York Times critics, not one, because they rarely ever agree on this. Right. Two of them come and say your show should win the best musical Tony Award. How did that make you feel?

[3:40] Chad Beguelin: Uh it's great, because you know, of course, they both uh agreed that it would not win. Um, so that, you know, sort of hurt. But uh, but no, it's great to know that, you know, that two top critics like that really believe in the show. I uh it really you know, award season is such a crazy time because you're put into competition with all these people that are your friends, and so it's just this weird time.

[4:04] Chad Beguelin: So any little sort of positive moment is one that should be cherished.

[4:08] Ken Davenport: Well, I think Once on This Island was a should win for one of them. So let's hope that that uh rubs up. Uh also, just some more of his credits, you wrote the book and lyrics, uh, additional lyrics for Aladdin, as well as the book and lyrics to The Wedding Singer and Elf and a ton of others.

[4:23] Ken Davenport: But I want to go back to actually when I first heard about you was this little musical that you wrote called The Rhythm Club.

[4:29] Chad Beguelin: Yes.

[4:30] Ken Davenport: So this was your first show that you wrote? Was it the first one?

[4:34] Chad Beguelin: It was it was the first sort of real show. I mean, we had uh my writing partner Matt Sklar and I had written a couple of small shows that got readings or or productions at at small regionals, but this was the first one that was slated to go to Broadway and uh, you know, was felt like, you know, it seemed like it was going to be our Broadway debut, but fate had other ideas in store for us.

[4:59] Chad Beguelin: Um I remember I think it was big passed around this city on cassette, because this is 19 what? Oh the 90s or 2000s or 100.

[5:07] Chad Beguelin: Oh no, it was yeah, it was in the 90s. So it was it was a long time ago, yeah.

[5:11] Ken Davenport: And how did you get the attention of the producers then to even be slated for Broadway? Where did you come from? How did that happen?

[5:17] Chad Beguelin: Well, what it happened was I was going to NYU, and I was originally going for acting, and I was a terrible actor, and I just by happenstance took uh an elective class in playwriting taught by Doug Wright, of all people, before he was Doug Wright.

[5:35] Chad Beguelin: And he pulled me aside and he said, You should be doing this. You should be writing. And I was sort of relieved because I was auditioning and was terrible, had terrible stage fright, I just had no business trying to be an actor.

[5:46] Chad Beguelin: So I immediately got a double uh degree, one in drama and one in dramatic writing, and then actually stayed and got my master's in dramatic writing. And along this time, I submitted some scripts to uh the now defunct musical theater works, and I got a rejection letter from uh their literary manager, Andrew Barrett, and I thought he said he liked my work, so I thought, well, I can't, you know, maybe here's a chance.

[6:13] Chad Beguelin: So I wrote him back and I said, Can I please take you to lunch and just get any sort of notes or any sort of let me pick your brain? And by then he had seen a production at NYU of Godspell that uh Matt Sklar had music directed.

[6:28] Chad Beguelin: And he said, uh, you know, do you ever think of composing? And Matt said, That's what I want to do. So they uh sort of set us up on this, you know, career blind date at a diner in the East Village, and we hit it off.

[6:44] Chad Beguelin: And so one of our first shows that we wrote was The Rhythm Club, and it was an original uh idea based on sort of, you know, it was Hamburg right before the war, and uh uh swing and jazz music were forbidden, but there were all these underground clubs, and it's about this group of teenagers that tries to put together a band as a way to escape, you know, figuratively and literally.

[7:09] Chad Beguelin: And we went to the ASCAP workshop and we applied and we got in, and what they do is they present about 35, 40 minutes of your work to a panel of professional Broadway writers.

[7:20] Chad Beguelin: And so it was Stephen Schwartz, who really was has been a great mentor to us, and that's where the producers saw those 35 minutes and said, we're gonna do this.

[7:31] Ken Davenport: So I have so many questions. That was a long way around.

[7:33] Chad Beguelin: No, I love it.

[7:36] Ken Davenport: So you were not having very much success as an actor. Why the F were you here acting in the first place? What brought you? You like, I gotta be involved in the theater. You loved it that much, even though I'm bad at it.

[7:49] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, I loved the theater. I had uh I'm from a very small town in southern Illinois, where actually uh St. Louis is our big town. That's how southern it is. And I loved, I did community theater, I did high school theater, and I heard about, and I actually was gonna go to Sarah Lawrence or Bard, and I graduated a year early and I freaked out.

[8:09] Chad Beguelin: And I because I was just turning 16, and I was like, I can't do this. So I did a year at Indiana University because they had rolling into uh rolling admissions, so I just okay, this this will be safe, I'll be close to home. And then I decided, no, I really want to be in New York, and um I just didn't think I I was so you know green that I was like, oh well, they have an acting school.

[8:32] Chad Beguelin: So I I auditioned and got in, which is hilarious because I had to do a Shakespearean monologue and I'd never done Shakespeare. I don't know why they let me in. It was the craziest thing when I heard I got in. I was like, really?

[8:43] Chad Beguelin: But you know, the more time I spent, uh, even freshman year before Doug's class, I was writing uh I I wrote a couple plays. I put them up myself with you know actor friends and you know spaces in the dorm which you could rent out. You know, I was just already doing it, and then you know, Doug just sort of went, come on, what do you let's let's focus over here.

[9:05] Ken Davenport: I'm gonna talk about Chad like he's not in the room right now, but he's known for being one of the nicest guys in the business, and you could hear why I'm sure you were not you were a pretty damn good actor if you just got into NYU and just very humble about it.

[9:19] Ken Davenport: And do you remember what one of those first plays that you staged in like your site-specific theater dorm was?

[9:24] Chad Beguelin: I do.

[9:25] Chad Beguelin: Well, actually, the very first thing that happened, which was crazy, is I was put in to, you know, at NYU they do studios, and I was put into Playwrights Horizons, and because they had asked me in my audition, I said, Well, I also like to write and I like to direct, and so they put me at Playwrights, and the guy that was running the school then was John Wolpe.

[9:44] Chad Beguelin: And I had no idea how these things work. And I said, I've written a play, and it's a bunch of monologues, but they connect, and I think you should do it at Playwrights. And he said, Are you insane? And I was like, Well, what? I think you know, at least read it.

[10:00] Chad Beguelin: And he's like, You shouldn't you shouldn't even think that is possible until you're 40 or 50. And I was like, Okay, well, um, if you don't do it, then I'll just do it in the dorm. I'll rent out a room, and uh, and he said, Okay, well, let me read it.

[10:15] Chad Beguelin: And um, I came back after the weekend, and he said, So we have this space upstairs where we do plays that are not reviewed, and we're doing uh they actually were doing a one-act version of Handmaid's Tale, and he said, This play, we could do it as you know, that would be the first act, would be your play, and then we'll do The Handmaid's Tale.

[10:37] Chad Beguelin: So it was the craziest thing. I mean, would you have the courage to do that now?

[10:41] Chad Beguelin: Absolutely not. I could I look back and I think, what I think I get it from my dad. My dad, my freshman year, he was like, Well, Chad, are there theaters on Broadway that aren't booked right now? And I'm like, Yeah.

[10:51] Chad Beguelin: He's like, Well, why don't you just say if you can ask him if you can use them? I'm like, Dad, it doesn't work that way. And then it weirdly kind of worked in a way.

[10:58] Chad Beguelin: So it was it was crazy. It was only like a couple nights, it wasn't a big deal, but it was, you know, it felt really cool to be like, oh, this got to go up at the same place where Sunday in the Park with George went up. I mean, that was nuts.

[11:09] Ken Davenport: And how much of that did like I I often think that when professors or teachers like Doug, who saw in your work, obviously he saw talent in your writing, but he obviously could see something else in you, right? Your passion and just desire to get things up and get things done.

[11:24] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, and and I think that that was probably it too, because he said, okay, now we uh, you know, everybody has to write a scene, and uh, you know, bring in a scene next week. And I brought down a one act play, and I had them Xeroxed and spiral bound, and he was like, okay, something's going on with this guy.

[11:39] Chad Beguelin: Like, yeah, I think he knew that I was really, really wanted to be in the theater somehow, and and you know, was really committed to it.

[11:46] Ken Davenport: Yeah, anyone that's gonna do that, you know, is just gonna do something with their chosen field in their life because they're just gonna keep pounding away at it until they do, which you obviously have done.

[11:57] Chad Beguelin: Yeah.

[11:58] Ken Davenport: So then Rhythm Club, so gets options, right?

[12:01] Chad Beguelin: Right?

[12:02] Ken Davenport: And is on a fast track to Broadway.

[12:04] Chad Beguelin: And then yes, as you mentioned, did not happen.

[12:09] Chad Beguelin: Yes, so it must have been crushing.

[12:11] Chad Beguelin: It was. I mean, we did a production at Signature Theater that uh Eric Schaefer directed, and we were we had a poster up in Schubert Alley, and it was you know, it was definitely happening until it definitely wasn't, and money fell out, and I think for especially for Matt and me, it was a big test and a big turning point in our career because you know, Matt was a you know conductor and musician uh, you know, on Broadway, and he he was like, I can't even go into Times Square.

[12:41] Chad Beguelin: Like, I can't, it's just too crushing. And it felt embarrassing, it felt, you know, just all those terrible things. And we had this heart to heart, and I said, Look, we can decide right now. I can go, I'll go get a PhD and I can teach, and you can be a music director, or we can just double down and uh I'll keep answering phones and bartending, and you'll keep playing and conducting shows, and we'll just that's what it's gonna be. And we just realized we had to keep at it. There was no other if not, we would regret it forever. And so it was just it was hard, but it was also, I think, in a way, was made us more determined to to make something happen to somehow get to Broadway.

[13:20] Ken Davenport: And what was the next thing that happened along the journey for you?

[13:24] Chad Beguelin: Another crazy thing was at the time I was pitching a screenplay, and I walked into New Line Cinema, and I met a guy named Mark Kaufman that I was going to pitch this screenplay, which I sold, they never made, but was terrible. Not too sure. Here we go. Terrible actor, but it's all the screenwriter. I sold my first screenplay. This face is made of paper mache. It's all a lie. No, it uh but I was there to pitch this movie, and he said, your name sounds very familiar. And he said, Wait a second, he had the demo for Rhythm Club because they were starting to do musicals with you know Margol Lyon and Hairspray, and we stopped talking about film immediately and started talking about you know musicals, and he's you know, gave us our Broadway debut.

He said, you know, what? We're looking for somebody to do the wedding singer, and we were thinking of doing uh, you know, doing a jukebox musical and using pre-existing songs, but maybe maybe not, maybe we should do a uh an original score. And I was like, Yeah, you know, of course, yes. And um so it moved really quickly. It it uh Margot came on board, and uh Tim Hurley, who wrote the movie, uh ended up co-writing the book with me, and John Rando directed it, and it was our it was our Broadway debut.

[14:38] Ken Davenport: Did you have the how did you audition for that? Did you just get it, or was it rhythm club your audition, or did you spec stuff?

[14:44] Chad Beguelin: It was it was funny. We the first hurdle was Tim Hurleyhee because he wrote the movie and basically had to give us the yes or no. So um we wrote a couple songs, did some demos, you know. Mark liked them, Marg liked them, and Tim liked them, but Tim was like, I want to write lyrics too. And I was like, Oh, I don't know about that. He was like, Why not? And I said, But Matt and I have been working for a long time together, and lyrics are really important to me. And he already actually had two songs uh in the movie, Grow Old With You and Somebody Kill Me, Please. So that was you know, some negotiation, but you know, I said, Look, it's just really important to me that you know I want to write the new material, and so he said yes, and yeah, it was it was crazy because we on paper, Tim Hurley and I are like the complete opposite.

I mean, he's like a big frat guy, and I'm like this little gay guy. We should have like not it didn't make any sense at all, but we like loved working with each other and had a great time, and and you know, it was it was just so much fun to to work with Matt and with Tim on it.

[15:49] Ken Davenport: So here we there's a definite trend in your life. So you had you had this Broadway unfortunate disappointment, and then you get handed a chance to write a Broadway show, and you have the courage to say, Hey, I I need to write these lyrics. Even though the only show that I've had so far on its way didn't happen. Right. I'm gonna stand up to a big Hollywood screenwriter and say, I need to do this. What gave you that courage?

[16:13] Chad Beguelin: I don't know. I think I I felt I guess that you know it for me it was just so personal. I I love writing book, but lyrics are I really am passionate about. And I thought, and he had said to me, like, well, what if you write a lyric that's like you dance a jig and I cross it out and write you dance like a pig? And I said, I would really that would not be cool with me, you know. But it was all done in a very like, look, this is just these are my feelings, and you have different feelings. Like we can't, it was never we never fought once, we never, you know, it was all very sort of amicable. But um, yeah, I don't know. I think I just was I felt strongly about it.

[16:50] Ken Davenport: Let's talk a little bit about that craft because you were a found playwright. I mean, what you were just started writing plays, right? And then you went to school for it. Where did the craft of learning how to write a lyric come from?

[17:03] Chad Beguelin: You know, I have to credit uh Andrew Barrett from Musical Theater Works, the literary manager, because I had you know, I like tried to write musicals in high school and try, you know, the without a composer. I did, you know, a children's show with a uh a woman from my small hometown, and and so I had been doing it, but he was the one that first started saying things like, you know, that's not really a perfect rhyme, or you know, things that I should know as a lyricist. And so I began to really study. I was like, all right, if we're, you know, if we're serious about writing lyrics, then they have to be perfect rhymes, and they have to be, you know, it's sort of I started reading all these books on it because he sort of pointed out, you know, it's a little lazy.

So after reading, you know, Ed Cleban and all the other books, you start to realize, oh, this is more than just writing. This is an intricate, intricate uh art form. So I think that's when I really started paying attention to to lyrics and rhymes.

[17:59] Ken Davenport: You have a favorite lyric book for everyone out there that's uh promising.

[18:03] Chad Beguelin: Oh gosh. Jeez, I don't know. It's been so long since I read them all. Um by now for the I don't know. I mean, they're they're all good. I mean, Lehman Engel obviously is so smart. It's it's funny because it's something that some people just do not care about. You know, some lyricists do not care at all. And it just uh there I'm gonna misquote it, but uh Ed Clevan said, you know, all lyrics should be perfect because they can be. And it's true, if you take the time and squeeze your brain long enough, there's a way to get it perfect. And I do believe also the theory that if it's a perfect rhyme, it helps the audience hear it and understand it better.

[18:43] Ken Davenport: Well, I think that's a very accurate quote, but what I love about your lyrics is they're perfect, but they also sound like the character would sound. I think a lot of people can make things perfect, but it doesn't necessarily sound like that character would speak.

[18:58] Chad Beguelin: Right. You have a very, very good, there's a very naturalistic quality to your lyrics. How long does it take you to write a song? Like what's that process like?

[19:07] Chad Beguelin: It's all over the place. I mean, it usually what I normally, it depends what I'm working with. I mean, I've only really worked with Matthew Square and Alan Mankin. So not too shabby. Um with Alan, you know, we with both Matt and Alan, we talk forever and figure out what the song is supposed to say and what what the purpose is. And then with Alan, it's usually tune first. There have been times when I've done a lyric first. With Matt, sometimes it's he's like, here's this tune, I don't know where it goes, or I think this is Act Two Love Ballad. But most of the time with Matt, I'll write a dummy lyric, and then we'll meet, and he'll start to set it, but then I'll say, forget it. Just go go wherever you want to go, and then I'll retrofit the lyrics to whatever tune he comes up with. So it's it depends. I mean, sometimes it comes really fast, and sometimes it takes a long time.

[19:55] Ken Davenport: So you've been working with Matt uh for a long time now.

[19:59] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, over 25 years.

[20:00] Ken Davenport: Oh my gosh.

[20:01] Chad Beguelin: Yeah.

[20:02] Ken Davenport: So I can't imagine that you've gone through the 25 years without ever having a disagreement on a lyric or a melody. How do we I was recently talking to some writers about this? How do you resolve a conflict with, especially with someone who is now obviously a beloved friend and member of your family practically, right?

[20:20] Chad Beguelin: Right. When one person thinks one thing and one person thinks the other, what do you do?

[20:24] Chad Beguelin: Matt and I uh have been through so much therapy that we seriously or together? No, separately. But we seriously, I think we've maybe fought twice, and by fight I mean I get quiet and he says, 'What's wrong? ' And I say, 'Well, I just think that, you know, we do we've never had like a you know, I we I we disagree, but I think we value each other's opinion. My the only things that I once slightly happened with Matt and has happened once or twice before, it's and I don't throw finter mad, but I get mad when we can't try things. Let's just try it. Let's just see. And um, there was one thing we were we were working on e.l.f, and we were I wasn't even on the book for Elf. It was Bob Martin and the great Tom Meehan.

And they wanted, there was just this little scene where Buddy the Elf was going to, they needed filler. And I said, Well, he lives, he was born at the North Pole. He thinks he's his elf. He's been around bells all the time. He should see one of those ladies, Salvation Army ladies ringing a bell and be able to play, you know, like crazy Carol of the Bells on it because he's just with and Matt was just like, no, that's that that note. And I remember I got really quiet. He's like, What's wrong? And I was like, I just don't know why we can't try it. And he was like, uh, okay, all right. And then it was this huge laugh, and so we laughed about it later because I was right. Um, it's now in the show.

Exactly. So that's the only thing that really drives me crazy. It's like, you know, with directors are like, no, I don't think so. Like, well, can we just try it one night? So that's I think that's the one thing that is always like that's what we're in previews for, or workshops, or but yeah, it's it's strange. Maybe there's this big, huge Beguelin scarf fight coming down with that video and nobody can see it.

[22:05] Ken Davenport: What is you mentioned previews? What do you think about do you like the preview process? Is it freak you out? What's what's you've been through it a lot.

[22:14] Chad Beguelin: Uh it's horrifying.

[22:16] Ken Davenport: Really?

[22:16] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, I get especially the first preview when the lights go down. On the very first preview, I am always like, no, no, no, please stop, please stop. It's like a roller coaster because you just don't know what you've got. And everything you think is gonna be funny isn't, and then things you think won't work do, and then it's just it's this sensory overload, at least for me, where I'm just going, oh my god, oh, oh, that's what this is. Oh, and that you know, it's just so much information flying at you, and it seems so personal because when they don't laugh, it's nobody's fault. Nobody's fault but your own. So yeah, it's it's a very intense time. The the great thing I can say about the prom was it was surprisingly smooth sailing, and I don't know, it was just we looked out, it was a magical thing.

We definitely changed a lot. But it wasn't like my other shows that have gone out of town and have gotten butchered, where you come in and you're going, oh god, what are we gonna do? And you know, Wedding Singer and Aladdin got bad reviews out of town. So you walk in, sort of going, We are in trouble, and what do we do? Oh my god, oh my god. So um we got good reviews out of town with Rom, and then thank the Lord we got good reviews here. So it wasn't, you weren't, you know, there wasn't that terror, you know, that you go to bed every night going, what are we what's happening?

[23:35] Ken Davenport: Do you read the reviews?

[23:36] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I feel like, you know, A, everybody else is gonna read them, and B, it there might be something in there that makes sense. Anything that can ring a bell or make a light bulb go on or help in any way is great. I also, you know, we love Stephen Schwartz because he's such a great mentor. And when we were doing previews on Broadway for Wedding Singer, I uh we said, can we take you out to lunch? And just you know, want to talk. And he had seen a preview, and he walked through the door and I just went, help me, help me. And he was like, Chad, let's have some small talk, let's eat a salad. And then, you know, once that was over, he started asking us questions and got us back on track and you know, thinking like writers again.

And but you know, it's great to have people like that in the community that you can turn to and go, like, I am overwhelmed. What what what what do I need to do? What get me back, you know, sort of and going in the right direction.

[24:31] Ken Davenport: Do you what about do you read chat boards or any of that? Twitter.

[24:34] Chad Beguelin: I used to, but it's it in it every show I think I'm gonna be, you know, like Rhythm Club, it just they had just started happening, and it was it was that long ago, and uh I was like, I can go on all that chat, I'm tough, I can take it. And then I was like, oh my god, this is horrible. It was like, you know, I love my mom, I don't care what anybody says about her, and then you're like, oh my god, they're saying these horrible things about my mom. So I yeah, I try and stay off now because just no good can come from it.

[25:02] Ken Davenport: So talk a little bit about the prom because uh you know when I saw it, I just was overwhelmed at how much heart it had.

[25:07] Chad Beguelin: And I remember seeing a workshop years ago, uh, and it went through I mean, it's a totally original idea, right? So you can basically do anything with that story as opposed to The Wedding Singer.

[25:19] Ken Davenport: Right.

[25:19] Chad Beguelin: Do you find that more freeing or more challenging? Would you rather adapt where it's like, okay, it's Aladdin, I know what happens here.

[25:28] Ken Davenport: Right.

[25:28] Chad Beguelin: I mean, they're both sort of dicey propositions because you know, with Aladdin, you can't put the movie on stage, but you've got to make sure the fans are happy. And with that, we actually had I had I had to figure out how to put these lost Howard Ashman and Alan Menken songs into the story, which had nothing to do with the narrative. But on the other hand, you have a basic roadmap, and so you sort of know how things are gonna fall out. Whereas an original musical, you have no idea, so you're just sort of every it's a blank piece of paper, so you're just sort of going, okay, well, what if this happened, or what if this happened, or that character's not working anymore? We need something here. You know, it's just constant change and constant uh putting it up and seeing, you know, what you've got, and then changing it all.

[26:13] Ken Davenport: So you have worked with Casey Nicholaw a bunch. Talk to me a little bit about how that collaboration works.

[26:20] Chad Beguelin: It's great. I mean, Casey has this uh crazy eye and notices things that I have no idea what he's talking about sometimes. He'll be like, well, that isn't that really she's gonna wear that orange. And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. But he's right, and then it ch it's changed, and I'm like, oh yeah, now it makes sense. Um so he's very he has a very visceral sort of reaction to things. Um and I've learned to sort of trust his gut because I really believe he has such a strong vision. So that, and especially with I think with Prom, it sort of has grown working with him on Elf and then Aladdin and now Prom. It it's sort of evolved to where I used to be very nervous when I would have to rewrite a lyric on the fly.

Because, like I said, I really love lyrics and I want to make sure I get it right, and um, I would get a sort of panic. I realized now that with Casey and now with Bob and with Matt, if they're saying, eh, don't love this lyric, they're also saying, I believe you can do better. I think you can do better. Which has been it's just a tiny shift in my brain that I'm like, okay, calm down. It's gonna be okay. Let's see if we can make this better. And it's very rare to find people that you trust like that, especially in a creative world where everybody's got different ideas of how something should be.

[27:45] Ken Davenport: Do you like when directors come on early in the process in terms to help with the dramaturgy?

[27:51] Chad Beguelin: Yes, I love it. Because it's going to change anyway as soon as you get a director. So why don't we all start at the same time? Because, you know, I've never actually had this happen, but I know that there are directors who, if they come on late in the project, it's like, yes, maybe they think this is a better way to go, or is it just trying to put their stamp and DNA on it? So I think it's why not? I mean, we're gonna we're gonna be listening to each other down the road anyway. Let's let's all jump off the cliff at the same time.

[28:21] Ken Davenport: You've worked also with a very diverse group of producers on all your shows, from Disney to Warner Brothers to Dory and Bill on The Prom. Who are your favorites and why?

[28:30] Chad Beguelin: Oh god. Um but seriously, what are the characteristics you look for from a producer nowadays in that in that relationship?

[28:40] Chad Beguelin: I think it's really uh one thing that I loved that Margot would do was uh Margot was very good about we're going to give the notes to the director, and the director is going to give the notes to you. And I thought that was great. And uh a lot of d a lot of producers I've worked with do that. But I think that is a a great sort of way to handle it because if not, you also usually there are more than one producer and they have more than one opinion about everything. So it's it can get it's a lot of voices coming at you at once, is really hard, especially when you're down to like previews. So I'd love producers that go through the director because the director also will have an opinion about their notes.

And um I also like you know, producers that will sort of let you work for a while and then come in, as opposed to being there every day and sort of like, well, I don't know about that. You know, it's like it's especially if you trust the director, you know, let them sort of do their thing and and as Casey said many times, a workshop is his first draft. So it's sort of unfair to say anything until it's all up on its feet. This is the first time he or she is getting to see it. So it is a first draft. So I like it when that's when we start getting into nitty-gritty notes as opposed to, you know, there's been times when it's like, oh, you feel like you're being watched by the producer as opposed to being trusted by the producer.

[30:12] Ken Davenport: You I'm sure have lots of opportunities to write new musicals now with the success you've had. What draws you to a project?

[30:16] Chad Beguelin: It's funny, the we're sort of looking for what's next for the you know, the next Casey Bob Matt show. And uh I think we're definitely we're drawn to obviously comedy, but uh the underdog and sort of uh, you know, that that sort of uh uh not feel good, but you know, somebody that normally wouldn't get the spotlight. Uh those are sort of stories that I'm usually drawn to.

[30:46] Ken Davenport: So let's say you find one. What's the first thing you do in your process? You say, okay, we're gonna write this show. Right. You and Matt get room and white what do you do?

[30:57] Chad Beguelin: Well, what we would do is get together. I mean, if it's this particular group or any group, get together with the director and the other people on the writing team and try and put together some sort of really broad outline so that we sort of can start to see what the shape might be, and also start to sort of song spot where we think musical numbers could possibly go and figure out you know the characters and their arcs and the subplots and how they'll tie into the main plot. So it's it's really about sort of putting together a treatment outline and then going off and starting to actually write dialogue and songs.

[31:35] Ken Davenport: So we're in the middle of award season right now. Which uh I mean you you have to work hard during this time of year, don't you?

[31:42] Chad Beguelin: Yes. Yes.

[31:43] Ken Davenport: You were saying before, it's like your fourth thing today alone, right?

[31:46] Chad Beguelin: Right, yes. Uh do you enjoy this part of the process?

[31:50] Chad Beguelin: It's funny. I do. I'm I think of it as you know, anything that I can do to sort of shine a light on the show is is absolutely worth it. It's you know, and people are like, oh, how are you holding up? And I'm like, uh, great. Um, you know, the alternative would be to be at home crying because you weren't nominated. So it's fine. You know, it's it's it's so funny when people say that. Like, oh, you're holding up a little uh, yeah, I'm just fine. But it's also, you know, I you never know when somebody is it through what venue somebody's gonna hear about the show and may decide to go and see it, and it might actually, you know, be meaningful to them. So you just uh it's it's worth it, and it's especially for this show that we just love so much and believe in so much. It's it's definitely, you know, it's not hot.

[32:37] Ken Davenport: Alright, we're gonna go out with my uh genie question, which is so apropos for you.

[32:42] Chad Beguelin: Uh-oh.

[32:42] Ken Davenport: I didn't know there was a genie question. I asked this question to every single podcast guest that comes on. And I want you to imagine that the genie from your Aladdin comes to visit you uh and wants to thank you for all your contributions to the theater and especially for putting an original idea on the stage and achieving the success you've had with it so far by granting you one wish. Now, like I said before, you're such a super nice guy. What's the one thing that really pisses you off about Broadway that makes you angry that would have you throwing things that you'd ask this genie to wish away in an instant?

[33:20] Chad Beguelin: I think it would be the sort of competitive nature. Because, especially around award seasons, you're you're pitted against your friends, and it's these shows that have nothing to do with one another, really, except the calendar.

[33:35] Ken Davenport: Right.

[33:36] Chad Beguelin: And yeah, it's like, why are these being pitted again? You know, but I understand it, and it's it's obviously the way it goes, but I I do, I I wish it didn't feel like that. And people, you know, talking about chat boards or you know, fans, you know, they get so aggressive, and whether they love your show or whether they love some other show, it's just I wish we could remember why we're doing this is to tell stories and and change lives, not to get shiny awards. Though they'd be nice. That's a six-time Tony loser. I am the Susan Lucci of you know the Tony's so uh we'll so be pulling for you that night.

[34:14] Ken Davenport: But you're so right. I I'm just thinking about it in comparison to other awards or other indust entertainment industries. So, Hollywood, there are like hundreds and hundreds of movies that could be eligible to win an Academy Award or a Grammy Award. There's a handful.

[34:31] Chad Beguelin: Yeah.

[34:31] Ken Davenport: And you know everybody.

[34:33] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, these are all your peers.

[34:35] Ken Davenport: Yeah, and you see people at all these events, and you're like, oh my gosh, he's terrific. I hope he loses. No, I'm kidding.

[34:41] Chad Beguelin: No, it's it's just a weird thing that I I'm just I'm glad. I'm always glad when it's over because it's like, okay, that element has cleared the room.

[34:48] Ken Davenport: You know.

[34:49] Chad Beguelin: Well, congratulations on all the nominations. Thank you for all your success, and we will be pulling for you on them.

[34:54] Chad Beguelin: Ah, I appreciate it. Fantastic story. Uh go see The Prom.

[34:58] Ken Davenport: Thanks to you for listening. We're gonna go out with one of those terrific Chad Beguelin songs and Matt Sklar's songs, who's also been on the podcast here. Uh so we'll go out with one of those tunes. Thanks, and we'll see you next time. But before you go, I want to make a big announcement here on the Producer's Perspective podcast.

[35:14] Chad Beguelin: You have just listened to the very, very last episode of the season.

[35:22] Ken Davenport: That's right. Not the last episode for good. Don't worry. We'll be back. But we have decided to take the podcast and divide it into two halves of the year. We're gonna have a fall season and a spring season, just like the Broadway season. It's gonna run basically how the Broadway season goes, or the school year, starting in September and ending with the Tony Awards in June. Uh that's why this is gonna be the last episode of this season. But we'll be back and we've got a whole bunch of new plans in store. We've got a new logo coming. We've got bigger guests and better sound and all sorts of cool stuff coming. So the next episode will be September 9th. Put it in your calendar. September 9th is the start of the new season of the Producer's Perspective podcast.

Or if you don't want to put it in your calendar, just subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, anywhere you want. Subscribe to my blog, you'll get it emailed to you. In the meantime, we'll be doing a lot of throwbacks of the almost 200 episodes we've had up until now. Yeah, 200. So you'll have lots of listening. I'm sure you haven't heard them all. Let's face it. You can admit it, it's no problem. I'm not offended. Now is your time to catch up. I want to give you all a chance to catch up. Take a summer siesta, summer siesta, and we'll be back September 9th with the start of the new season of the Producer's Perspective Podcast. We have a lot of cool stuff in store for you, like I said. So be prepared for a very exciting year. And now let's go out with "Dance With You" from The Prom.

[36:49] Ken Davenport: Have an amazing summer, everyone.

[36:50] Ken Davenport: We'll see you in the fall.

[36:52] ♪ Musical number ♪

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[37:14] Ken Davenport: All it takes is you and me and so.