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[0:05] Bobby Steggert: I'm Bobby Steggert, and this is The Quiet Part Out Loud.

[0:14] Bobby Steggert: Artists have the unique combination of gifts of being able to delve as deeply inward as they're able to express outwardly. The themes of introversion and extroversion have quite naturally emerged as a thread in this season's conversations, and today's is a wonderful extension of these ideas. If I've noticed any pattern in myself and others that may result in a somewhat tricky imbalance of these forces in each of us, it's that a performer's tendency to look outward for information about who they are can outweigh the quieter and more private knowledge of who we know ourselves to be at the core. For a job that requires such deep inner mining, my god, is there a lot of pressure to present. Emily Walton is a friend of mine who I've known since she was 19 years old, and who started working in the New York theater like she was born to be on stage.

And in some ways, she was. She comes from a family of theater people who raised her in their wider community of theater people. For her, the theater was as natural as breathing. I suspect this is why I experienced her to be so self-possessed as a young person, effortlessly blending into the on and off-stage worlds of people much older and much more experienced. To me, she was the definition of a natural. While all of this remains true, Emily is really candid in this conversation about how she believes she was prevented from deeper self-knowledge due to the way she was literally steeped in the theater from the very beginning. Of course, she had the unparalleled support of wonderful artists as she learned her craft.

Certain give-ins and expectations, even if only internal to her, kept her from asking the deeper questions about who she was, separate from the only world she knew. In fact, more meaningful self-investigation about who she really is, how she really feels, what she really thinks, came online much later in life. She describes other more socially oriented parts as in the driver's seat for much of her life. They're parts with concerns that we all know very well. What do they think of me? What's the right thing to do? Who am I? Outside of the person I offer to others in hopes that they accept me. There were certain factors that led Emily down a surprising road, a divergence from the life she always expected to lead.

And one of them was to actually sit in a show long enough to experience the kind of stability that so few of us get as performers. Being a member of the company of Come From Away for several years was a dream job. And it also gave her a surprising opportunity to slow down and to actually think about the future in a new way. I'm really excited that she now joins me in the ranks of artist therapists in support of the community that we both love so much. You'll find her as wonderful as I have since we were both babies. And if you want to know more about her therapy practice, stay tuned to the end of the episode.

[3:12] Bobby Steggert: What's funny about time is the last I clocked where you were in life, you were on stage at the curtain call of Come From Away, and you were getting a college degree.

[3:24] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[3:24] Bobby Steggert: So that wasn't even that long ago.

[3:25] Emily Walton: That was 2022.

[3:27] Bobby Steggert: It was four years ago.

[3:28] Emily Walton: Okay, so that is a long time.

[3:29] Emily Walton: So yeah, I finished my undergraduate degree online in December of 2021. And then somehow the president of that university got in touch with our stage management team, showed up after the show as a surprise and presented me my diploma. I had no idea it was happening. The whole company was like, after the show, we all need to come out on stage because someone is we're doing a presentation or something. And I was like, what is this? I don't know what this is, but we'll all go out there. And then it became clear that it was for me. And then I cried so much. It was like a Friday night. The whole audience was there to watch me receive my diploma. It was very special.

[4:04] Bobby Steggert: Were you not able to attend some sort of ceremony because of the show?

[4:08] Emily Walton: No, that was the narrative that they were presenting. But no, I did end up going in person in May. Like graduation wasn't until May. I think it was just, I don't know why that became a thing they were saying. It was just that they wanted to make a moment. And they did make a moment. And I do think it was out of the goodness of their hearts. And also it was like cool publicity for the school and for the show. You know what I mean?

[4:27] Bobby Steggert: And what also occurred to me, you started so young that when we met, you were a teenager.

[4:32] Emily Walton: I was.

[4:32] Emily Walton: I was 19.

[4:33] Bobby Steggert: Which I I had just turned 19.

[4:34] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[4:35] Emily Walton: So I went to college for a year and a half, a little less than a year and a half, and then I dropped out, like right before I met you.

[4:41] Bobby Steggert: Did you decide this is not for me, or did you get a job?

[4:44] Emily Walton: No, I decided. I was very anxious and very depressed at school. And so I was like, I think I have to go. And so I left. I know I wish the story was I got a cool job, but it's not. I left because I was really unhappy. And then moved back in with my parents, started auditioning pretty quickly, and then one of the first auditions I had was Saved, which is how really I came to know you. It was for like a two week reading of Saved.

[5:03] Bobby Steggert: Oh my God.

[5:06] Emily Walton: I hadn't thought about Saved at all in anticipating seeing you.

[5:08] Bobby Steggert: Oh, I've been thinking about Saved.

[5:10] Emily Walton: Oh my God. That was your first big job.

[5:12] Emily Walton: Yeah, that was my first job, really.

[5:13] Bobby Steggert: Okay, so for folks listening, it was a musical by Michael Friedman. I play Rush Horizons. It was a really cool project in that there were a lot of cool people doing it. Celia was the leader.

[5:22] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[5:22] Bobby Steggert: So Aaron Tate was in it. Josh Breckenridge, John Dawsett, Van Hughes, like all of these people who have gone on to have amazing careers. When I was bold enough to quit because the director was an asshole.

[5:32] Emily Walton: That's right.

[5:33] Bobby Steggert: You were. I'm kind of proud of that. But then oh, but I love seeing it. And then who played my part in the wheelchair?

[5:40] Emily Walton: Oh, Curtis Holbrook, who is the best.

[5:43] Emily Walton: Everyone was so great in that show. But everyone's we were all so young, like nobody, Mary Faber was in it. Like all the Julia Murney?

[5:49] Bobby Steggert: Julian freaking Murney. And there was never an album.

[5:52] Emily Walton: There was never an album. We never recorded an album.

[5:54] Bobby Steggert: Okay. So you're 19 or 20 when you do that.

[5:56] Emily Walton: The 19 for the reading, 20 for the production.

[5:59] Bobby Steggert: So what I'm really interested in exploring with you is you come from a family of creative artists. So when you quit school and try your hand at performing at 19, did it feel like a huge risk to you and or to your parents or not?

[6:14] Emily Walton: No, it didn't. And I feel sheepish about saying that. I didn't know how it was gonna go. I didn't feel entitled about it. I wasn't sure it was gonna work, quote unquote. But I had the support. I had the support from my parents, I had a foundational knowledge, I had representation. I had access to like the things you need to be able to even get into a room to be seen. So I felt like I had some ground underneath me going in.

[6:34] Bobby Steggert: What did you know about how it all worked?

[6:37] Emily Walton: I had done a little bit of auditioning and a little bit of working as a teenager before, like in high school and stuff. So I feel like I knew from my parents the volatility of the industry. I knew that there could be long periods of not working. And I knew that it was like a really scary thing to audition. And yet at the same time, it wasn't this big intimidating world I was walking into. It felt familiar and comfortable.

[6:58] Bobby Steggert: You were self-possessed.

[6:59] Emily Walton: Yes, yes, with a caveat of I was also 19 and didn't really know who I was, but I was self-possessed, yeah.

[7:05] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, but then you became friends very quickly with a bunch of people in their late 20s, and you fit in perfectly well.

[7:11] Emily Walton: I think honestly, I sure I think that has to do with my being self-possessed, but I always have gravitated toward older people. And I think that has something to do with my parents being actors and me being the first kid of their friend group. So I was among adults from a very young age, and it just has always felt very natural to me.

[7:28] Bobby Steggert: And so we should say that you just listened to Michelle's episode and she went to school with your dad.

[7:33] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[7:33] Emily Walton: She Michelle is my godmother. We have the same birthday, which is just a funny little tidbit. Yeah, she went to college with my dad and they were best friends that my mom joined that fray as well. And yeah, Michelle was a huge part of our lives for so long.

[7:45] Bobby Steggert: And you're growing up seeing these people in shows, them coming to see your parents in shows.

[7:49] Emily Walton: Oh, yeah, and just seeing them at dinners. Seeing them all the time. But yes, seeing them in shows, which was obviously a huge, yeah, a huge factor in my decision to want to pursue this.

[7:59] Bobby Steggert: And then in terms of your golden angel voice, like did it just come out of you or did you study really hard as a kid?

[8:05] Emily Walton: This is yeah, I was thinking about this conversation I had with you when I was maybe 20. I remember doing Picnic in Hanging Rock and you saying something asking me if I woke up and warmed up for hours, and I was like, no, I just don't. And you being so surprised by that. And that being a moment where I was like, oh, people warm up. And then the next year I got nodes. Because I didn't take I didn't treat it like an instrument. I was just like, I guess you just wake up and sing. And then I got nodes. And then I was like, oh, I have to take this seriously. I have to actually. So I think up until my very early 20s, it was just uh, yeah, I just wake up and sing. And sometimes it sounds nice. That's great, that's cool. But I wasn't in control of it. And then I had to become in control of it.

[8:45] Bobby Steggert: So I'm getting this picture of it being high stakes in certain ways.

[8:50] Emily Walton: That's yeah, I think that's fair to say. I think it was high stakes in the way that it is for a lot of us, of the competition and the wanting a job. But no, I didn't feel like I was barking up the wrong tree. I felt like I'm where I'm supposed to be. This is the industry I'm meant to be in. So in that way, I guess the stakes were not so high. But I think once I got more and more into my career, the stakes became higher for sure.

[9:12] Bobby Steggert: And then also, so your parents knew the world, your parents' friends knew the world. And so how did that affect what was either external or internal pressure for you to do good work? I guess is the basic way to say it. Because like I would like to stand on stage and do nothing, and my parents were just blown away because they had no idea. And so what was it like to have people in your life who had very much an idea?

[9:32] Emily Walton: That's so funny. I think it's a weird my parents were not, they weren't stage parents. They weren't like our daughter is the best of the best. They also weren't the kind of parents to give me notes. Like I know there are parents who do that and say, you could try this, you could. They weren't either of those things. I think they just trusted me to know what to do on stage. But it's become a thing in my later years where I've been like, hello guys, do you think I'm any good? Are you excited about things? As I became more invested in my own career and my own achievements, I often felt like, where is my parents' enthusiasm for me? And they know this, so if they're hearing this, they understand. But like it's just, I think for them it's just been a given. It's been a given of my life for the entirety of my life.

[10:12] Emily Walton: From the very beginning. To say on stage with my mom when I was like five years old in front of a I don't even know where the hell we were, but in front of a huge crowd, and then did my first musical when I was six. Not a professional musical, but like a community theater production of Annie. And it's like, that's six.

[10:26] Bobby Steggert: Six is really young.

[10:27] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[10:28] Bobby Steggert: And you were just steeped in it, basically.

[10:30] Emily Walton: I was steeped in it, yeah, from birth for sure.

[10:33] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. So then once you started working around the time we met, yeah, what did you learn that you actually had to learn?

[10:40] Emily Walton: Ooh. I think I learned that I had to learn technique. But it which is so funny because I went to performing arts middle school and high school. I was training that word, I'm using that word loosely, but I was studying it for a very long time, but I I didn't think of it as like the craft that I was honing somehow. It just felt like this is what I do, and it's great and fun, and I'm good at it. And so I think what I had to learn was like, no, you have to finesse some things. You have to study, you have to work really hard to memorize lines, you have to work on an audition, you have to spend money to have people help you learn some things.

[11:16] Bobby Steggert: Did it ever mess with the sense of freedom that you came in with?

[11:21] Emily Walton: I think so. I think not in a major way, but again, I think as you as I got deeper into my career, it felt like I was trying to fit into certain molds in a way that I think I went into the business having played all the ingenue roles in high school and being like, this is what I'm gonna do. And then I get to the real world, and it's like, you're not an ingenue. What do you just having to learn about how I was being perceived and how to mark oh this sounds weird, but like how to market that, how to make that desirable to people. That's just part and parcel of the job.

[11:52] Bobby Steggert: It is, it is. For better or worse.

[11:54] Emily Walton: I think so. I think so. But then that ended up becoming something I thought of as a strength. I liked those sort of roles I was falling into. I grew to like them.

[12:02] Bobby Steggert: You always brought really interesting strangeness to normal people. And I mean normalness to strange people. You understood how to bring real individuality even to an ingenue part.

[12:14] Emily Walton: I appreciate that. And obviously the same is true of you. I like that description of bringing some strangeness to a normal person or vice versa. That feels like something to be proud of. And I do, yes, I appreciate that.

[12:23] Bobby Steggert: Oh good. I'm glad. And that's what I've come to appreciate about myself as a human being is like, oh, there is a little bit of weirdness, strangeness. That's a strength. It's not a weakness.

[12:32] Emily Walton: No, God, no. But seeing it as that, especially in your early 20s when you're like, I just want to be like a hottie. I just want to be I just want to be seen as beautiful or whatever it is I was fixated on. But again, coming to terms with the way I felt I was being seen by others.

[12:48] Bobby Steggert: I'm thinking about the other unorthodox part of your early years. You came to New York City in a long-term relationship and you stayed in it. Do you not want to talk about that?

[12:57] Emily Walton: No, I'm happy to.

[12:58] Bobby Steggert: How does that affect an early career in the arts?

[13:01] Emily Walton: I think that's a good question too. I think it was a it was tricky for both of us because he was also an actor, and there was a lot of I had just gotten an earlier start than he did. He finished college, and I was here starting work. And like when I did things, he was still finishing up school. So we were long distance for a while, but I was complicated, I would say, because he was in full support of my career and was always there cheering me on, and vice versa. But it did feel like I was lucky enough to be a few steps ahead because I had put in more time, or for whatever reasons you want to name. So it did feel a little bit, it wasn't like competitive, but it was just uncomfortable sometimes.

[13:39] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. God, I wonder, I always wonder about actors who stay together in the long term, like where they get refethed.

[13:46] Emily Walton: Yeah, and a parents are an example of that. They're still married and they've been together for so many years. We can't do the math right now, but like 40 plus years. And they're not performing so much anymore, but they were when I was growing up. They were both actors. And when I was growing up, I didn't perceive tension between them about that, but I I think there was, and I think there was, especially prior to my being born. And I think it's just hard when you both want a certain level of success, and one party is achieving that, and one party isn't. It's that sucks.

[14:16] Emily Walton: Yes.

[14:17] Bobby Steggert: And the responsibility to lift someone up when you're feeling like shit about yourself is really hard one to uphold all the time.

[14:24] Emily Walton: Yes.

[14:24] Bobby Steggert: And it does, it feels like responsibility.

[14:26] Emily Walton: It feels like it does. I don't think it always comes easily or naturally.

[14:38] Emily Walton: I was thinking about this on the way here. I think there's something that's always been a little, it's always been a little mindless for me. And I don't know if that's the right word exactly, but a little bit of a lack of intentionality to I'm calling organic. Okay. That's a more positive spin. Yeah, I'm just a mindless idiot. No, I would think of you, especially when you're younger, just as this very organic presence.

[14:57] Emily Walton: That's really nice to hear. And I think I was able to retain that. I guess as I got, as you're saying, like became more seasoned. I think I leaned into my uniqueness, into my and like my vocal. I don't have I never had a singing voice that I felt was like exactly what people wanted to hear for certain things. I never was like the big belting girl, and I wasn't a like colorator soprano. So I feel like I started leaning into how I was different and like how I was bringing that into the room and definitely became more comfortable with my humor in audition rooms, but in my work and in my life, oh, this is a thing that I have, and I'm walking into this room not afraid to be off the cuff or make a joke that I might leave and go, what the fuck did I just sell in there? Was that okay? But I felt like I started enjoying the whole process more.

[15:44] Emily Walton: And that was because of an intentionality? An intentionality about maybe about the work I wanted to be doing. I think I maybe became more focused about like, oh, this play sounds cool. I want to play that part. And I do think it started to open up for me when I got to do more plays. Like I had just done musicals and then I got to do a play and then that opened a whole new door for me. And I felt like I was being taken more seriously because of that. It's nonsense. It's absolutely but I totally had the same experience.

[16:10] Bobby Steggert: No, but it's ridiculous.

[16:11] Emily Walton: Yeah. Oh, you're only gonna speak and now you're more interesting. It's just it is absurd, but I definitely fell into that trap of oh I am worth more now. Like I do have this skill but of course we have the skill the whole thing. The best musical theater performers are the one who fill something with such full emotionality to the scale of the piece that they can do anything.

[16:31] Bobby Steggert: Absolutely and yeah it's it seems silly to even talk about or have to rationalize like the best actors perform music. Like musical theater has some of the best acting I've ever seen.

[16:42] Emily Walton: Ever heard of Dame Judy Dent? Never not once who is that but yeah I think the intentionality was less about myself and more just taking greater interest and investing more in the work I wanted to do.

[16:56] Bobby Steggert: I see. This kind of gets to the core of where we'll end up going which and it's interesting you described your early years as just this kind of organic going with the flow. What part of you started to come online more and more that actually started you to question your identity as performer such a good question.

[17:14] Emily Walton: And I think the answer is like this is a weird way to say it but like my anxiety I think becoming more aware of my own anxiety in certain professional situations and definitely in personal social situations and going what is this what is causing this and it was a real a feeling of a lack of self knowledge, a lack of understanding who I am and looking outward and being like, they that person knows who they are. That person knows exactly who they are. That casting director seems to know who I am, but I don't know who I am. And so I think it was a feeling of like I'm needing a little bit more space for my own self-discovery and authenticity and agency. That's why I use the word mindless, but it's not the right word.

I felt like I was just hosting from job to job and getting to play these parts and then and having fun, but at the end of the day or at the end of a job being like, who am I? What is this? Like what's really under here? So I do think I think that's a big part of it is like longing to know more of my actual self.

[18:09] Bobby Steggert: That's so interesting. So in this case your anxiety was a really important messenger.

[18:14] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[18:14] Bobby Steggert: It wasn't something getting in the way.

[18:16] Emily Walton: It was raising its hand.

[18:17] Bobby Steggert: It was raising its hand. It was also very much getting in the way.

[18:20] Emily Walton: Okay. But I think I'm able to say it was raising its hand in retrospect. I think that's clear to me now looking back. But yeah, so maybe it's a little bit of like hindsight's 2020 but I definitely my anxiety my social anxiety was definitely a feeling of just like I don't trust myself to to know I remember saying to my mom I don't have anything to say. I don't have anything to talk about.

[18:43] Bobby Steggert: Even though your humor for example has always been so you and so owned.

[18:48] Emily Walton: Yeah and I agree with that and I can see that and that has always been something that I have felt comfortable within and not something that I'm trying to put on and yet still yeah no I would feel like I would show up to a a rehearsal or a social gathering and have no I used to keep in my notes app a list of stories I could tell or things to talk about which sounds so funny to say because I do love talking. I feel like I'm a good conversationalist but it was a very scary time in my 20s where I was just like, I don't have I have no history to speak of. I don't even know what I bring to the table.

[19:20] Bobby Steggert: Is this the darker side of growing up in a family culture where you don't differentiate?

[19:25] Emily Walton: I think so. I think it is. I think it's also just growing up in a family culture where there was a lot of love and a lot of support and so much joy, and also such a focus on the performing arts as a career, as the thing we do. Yes, the thing the family does. And I think implicit in that is not like, and a true desire for self-knowledge and understanding. It's like we gotta get the job. Tell us how the audition went. And it's a lot about output and external looking in and so I do think there was a lack of focus on self-actualization or something. Part that's coming to me, if we were to name it is like this part of self-investigation that started to happen later.

[20:05] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. How did you first start to investigate?

[20:09] Emily Walton: I think I started to investigate when I was doing a come from away tour, because that was the longest I had ever done a show. I had done three month runs of things here and there, but I was doing that show for a year, and then I did it in New York beyond. So I all in all performed that show for two and a half years or something like that.

[20:25] Bobby Steggert: So you did tour and then you moved directly to the Broadway Bridge?

[20:28] Emily Walton: Yeah, which was so cool, and I'm so lucky that I got to do that. But then COVID interrupted it. So it was like broken up, but all told like two and a half plus years. So that's a long time. And I loved that show. I loved performing it. I loved the people. I loved everything about the job, but after a while I was like, I don't want to like here, we're here again, we're doing this again. And it was a story that I want to make it super duper clear that like I've never been prouder to be a part of anything in my life. It's a great show.

[20:54] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[20:55] Emily Walton: Such a great show. I think of all of those people as family. It is truly, I don't know how I could ever top that experience. And even despite all of that, I was still like, oh, I don't know if I want to say these lines again. And then finding that the jokes you have backstage with everyone are the same. It's the same bits backstage too every night where you're just like, am I ever gonna grow? Is this inhibiting my ability to evolve as a person? And until then, there had just never been a chance to sit in something consistent enough to ever even think that.

[21:25] Bobby Steggert: That's a great point.

[21:25] Emily Walton: Yeah. I think because the jobs were always short before it was like, okay, onto the next, what's the next thing? I didn't, yeah, I didn't, and I wanted the next thing because that first thing ended.

[21:33] Bobby Steggert: It's so interesting because I think about stillness being such an important element of investigation. And this was stillness prescribed to you.

[21:43] Emily Walton: Yeah, whoa. That's so I've never thought about it that way. And it was. There was a lot of stillness. And I think a lot of uncertainty about what I was starting to investigate and discover. Oh my god, yeah, the stillness is a really it's a really important point you're making. Because I hadn't had that. I was always like hustling to get to the next. So in some ways, I'm seeing that now as a real gift that I was given that ability, even though it felt scary at the time.

[22:06] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. I want to get to what you investigated, but did you also rebel against it in any way?

[22:11] Emily Walton: The stillness? Did you find ways to ignore it or push against it? I think I maybe found ways to push against it like socially when I was on tour. Like I was just trying to always find adventure and how to fill the days with fun and novelty.

[22:24] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[22:24] Emily Walton: But that's no. I think I, if anything, it wasn't an act of rebellion against her. I think it was just like a that can't be real. I'm not gonna look at that because I'm not gonna not be an actor. I'm not gonna not do that. It's too in my bones. Yeah, it's like just too, I've made it too far. I'm not gonna walk away from this. And fear genuine kind of fear about that too, what that would mean. Because it just had never occurred, it couldn't possibly be any other thing than what it was.

[22:49] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, I think that's also part of the lack of self knowledge. Is like, am I capable of anything else? Am I worth anything else? And like I've said, it was just a given. It was just a given from such a young age that there was never any exploration of anything else.

[23:04] Emily Walton: Okay, so what did you start investigating in that forced stillness?

[23:08] Emily Walton: I think I started investigating. I think I started looking more toward the future, maybe in the stillness. What do I want to feel going forward? What do I want my life to look like? I started to want more control over my contributions to the world, to society, to whatever, to the people I interact with. What would that look like? And what would that mean?

[23:29] Bobby Steggert: Okay, so here's an interesting question. Sometimes the lack of control for me was being stuck in the psychology of a specific character that I didn't necessarily want to live through for longer than a period of time. Was the psychology of the character or characters you played part of that stuckness for you?

[23:43] Emily Walton: She she is young, she's whatever. Gosh, I don't think so. I feel like with some characters I played that the answer would be yes to that, but no, I think because come from away was we were in and out of so many different characters. It wasn't, I don't feel like I ever got to fully sink into that character, even because I would say a line is her, and then I would say a line is someone else. So it truly wasn't the show. It truly wasn't the one. No, it truly wasn't the show. And honestly, if I could still be doing that show, I would still be doing that show. If it had just run. I think so.

[24:10] Bobby Steggert: Interesting.

[24:10] Emily Walton: Yeah. That's like a weird thing to say in the midst of this conversation. But I yeah, I guess I'm just trying to illustrate the point that I was in, in my opinion, in my mind, the most ideal situation I could have been in. And I was like, oh, I don't think I don't think I can keep doing this. And so control, what did that attach to for you? For example, I certainly realized I needed more financial control. That was a big one. But for you, you're making good money. So what was the control? Was it about time? Was it about energy? Was it about social life? Where did it land?

[24:42] Emily Walton: I think, yeah. So financially I was lucky enough to be making good money, but I'm laughing because it's all I have no money left. I have no money left from that job. What happened? I don't know. I do know I spent it. I think it was control, yeah, over my time over, but again, it really comes back to this like desire for control over how I am showing up in the world. And it's almost like to have enough control to relinquish something, to not have to like do my hair and put on makeup and and show off in a way and to just kind of s relax into myself, like control to relax, if that makes sense.

[25:16] Bobby Steggert: Of course. My God, I so relate to that.

[25:18] Emily Walton: Yeah. All the energy being put into your output.

[25:22] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, yeah.

[25:23] Emily Walton: I'm and tired it makes me tired to even think about it that way. And it is tiring, but it also felt like free falling. It felt like, oh, I want to learn about who I am, but am I gonna what am I gonna find? Am I gonna find anything there? And without the safety net of this career that I've had for myself for so long.

[25:40] Bobby Steggert: How did you start to then actively investigate?

[25:42] Emily Walton: It was during the pandemic, like early days, once we learned we were not gonna be returning to work anytime soon. I've always wanted to finish my undergraduate degree, and I just never did. And so I thought, okay, this is the time, right? Like this is literally the time to do that. That was some self-investigation. And that was also something I just had wanted to do for so long, and it felt like giving myself a long overdue gift and something to be so proud of. And I am so proud of it. So I applied to some schools online and I started going to school online in May of 2020. And that was a huge first step. Ended up being a really important first step on this new journey, and then finishing that degree and then thinking about what I could do with a bachelor of arts in psychology and starting to think like, could I go to grad school? Is that a real thing I could actually do?

[26:28] Bobby Steggert: Because it never occurred to you.

[26:29] Emily Walton: Never occurred to me. I didn't feel like anybody would take me seriously enough to even apply, which sounds so funny to say. Like it felt like a joke almost. Not that I was laughing, but that people would be laughing at me.

[26:39] Bobby Steggert: Really?

[26:39] Emily Walton: Yeah. I always had this feeling that actors are such valuable contributors to an academic space because they can communicate so well.

[26:47] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[26:48] Emily Walton: Did that never occur to you?

[26:49] Emily Walton: Nope, never occurred to me. Communicate and collaborate so well. There's you're right. And I do feel like I was able to get to that point. But just the act of applying, I think there's been so much self-doubt in my adulthood about my intelligence. A real feeling that I don't I'm not smart enough to fill in the blank to go to grad school to apply to grad school. And it really was just that you had never made the space to explore.

[27:12] Bobby Steggert: I think so. And I think a weird internalized shame about having dropped out of college that I even though it was a conservatory, I wasn't studying like to be a doctor or something. I was going to school to study musical theater. And yet I felt this shame about not having finished college and felt like that sent something about my intelligence or even though you jumped a few steps ahead and did what those people wanted to do.

[27:34] Emily Walton: Yeah, yeah. It's also strange because as a teenager in high school I was very confident in my intelligence, my academic output, but I think I just lost that somehow along the way. And I remember doing an interview one of the punies that I applied to for grad school doing an interview to be in their mental health counseling program and getting off of this interview and crying because I was like they asked me questions that had nothing to do with theater. Like I was talking as a person who is interested in this other thing.

[28:00] Bobby Steggert: You were relieved.

[28:01] Emily Walton: I was relieved. I was like moved. I was, yeah, I think relieved. I don't know what I thought would happen, but I felt like, oh my God, I just got no that person had no idea that I'm an actor, and they don't care that I'm an actor. They just want to know why I want to be a therapist. And how cool that I get to talk about that. But so that probably just shows you how much I've questioned what my contributions to the world could be beyond singing and acting and dancing. I've really changed the world.

[28:26] Bobby Steggert: They're both really important dancers.

[28:30] Emily Walton: They're very important, important dancers. Oh my goodness. When you started investigating, doubting, going inward, were there any costs to that?

[28:38] Emily Walton: I think there was a bit of a cost to my relationship with my family.

[28:42] Bobby Steggert: Really?

[28:43] Emily Walton: Not a deep cost. We're still super close and I love them so much, but definitely a there's been some change in our ability to connect because it just has come as a surprise to them, this choice. And the automatic subject of conversation has been taken off the table.

[28:58] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[28:58] Emily Walton: Although I still can, I'll still talk about musical theater all day long. But yeah, that there's just a different and my perspective on it all has shifted. So but yes, there's a lack of ability to connect about it. I think in the same way that we've connected about songwriters and shows and all of this stuff. And I think there was also the cost of like still this question of who am I now?

[29:16] Bobby Steggert: If I don't have this cool, sparkly thing to show for myself, what do I have?

[29:22] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[29:23] Bobby Steggert: If I'm at my most honest, I'm so happy I don't have to walk into spaces and be actor Bobby, but I also miss it because there's something fun about knowing you're being watched.

[29:33] Emily Walton: Oh, for sure.

[29:34] Bobby Steggert: And there's something so cool about saying to another person, a random person you meet in some state, oh, I'm actually a performer.

[29:39] Emily Walton: Oh, have you done anything?

[29:40] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, I was on Broadway.

[29:42] Emily Walton: There's such a feel, it's easy and it's cool and there's pride.

[29:46] Bobby Steggert: There's genuine pride there.

[29:47] Emily Walton: But you don't get the same reaction when you say, I'm a therapist, right?

[29:50] Bobby Steggert: A lot of people get scared sometimes.

[29:51] Emily Walton: Yeah, scared.

[29:52] Bobby Steggert: They run a run in the other directions.

[29:54] Emily Walton: It's just a different thing.

[29:55] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[29:56] Emily Walton: They either get scared or they want to talk a lot.

[29:58] Bobby Steggert: Both really great options, I'm sure.

[30:00] Emily Walton: But yeah, I don't know. Just uh and I do I miss it too. And it hasn't been that long since I've not done it, but I miss the feeling.

[30:08] Bobby Steggert: There's there's an excitement to it. There's even in the desperate times or the unemployed times, there's still an excitement to the whole pursuit.

[30:15] Emily Walton: That's fair.

[30:16] Bobby Steggert: The stakes are higher and the amplitude of the ups and downs are more intense.

[30:20] Emily Walton: Yeah, yeah.

[30:21] Bobby Steggert: But and also the end result is like pretty fun. Like when you get to do a show, it's pretty great.

[30:26] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[30:26] Bobby Steggert: So I and I miss the people. I miss the dynamics. I miss the community aspect of it.

[30:32] Emily Walton: But I don't, yeah, I don't really miss. I keep saying this, like dressed a certain way to walk into a room and be like, this is the character that you want to I don't know why I'm acting like it's a sexy. I'm always going for sexy, the sexy girls, but like I just don't, I I don't wear makeup anymore.

[30:45] Bobby Steggert: And I'm like, I don't get I don't have to learn makeup anymore. Maybe I never did, but like did. And just it doesn't matter what I'm wearing.

[30:51] Emily Walton: I don't know. There's such a relief in not having to appear a certain way.

[30:55] Bobby Steggert: That's right.

[30:55] Emily Walton: Yeah. I'm sure there's more pressure for female identifying people, but still there was pressure for me too.

[31:00] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, of course.

[31:01] Emily Walton: Of course. The going into the study of psychology, what did you learn about your psychology?

[31:06] Bobby Steggert: Oh man, I don't even know if I know how to answer that. What did I learn about my psychology?

[31:10] Emily Walton: One thing you've already mentioned is that you realize how much anxiety was driving you when you might not have realized it as clearly. Did you learn any other aspects of what drives you or did drive you more than you understood?

[31:21] Bobby Steggert: Oh yeah, I think I don't know that I learned it via my studies necessarily, but it ties directly into the anxiety, which is a very I feel like I'm saying the same thing just in different ways, but like a very people-pleasing tendencies.

[31:32] Emily Walton: I definitely learned that I I care a lot about how I'm being thought of when I'm not in the room. And when I say the room, I don't mean like an audition room. Though I that's a room too. But like when I walk out of a room filled with people that with friends, do they miss me when I'm gone? Are people talking about me fondly? And just a lot of time focusing on and wondering about that.

[31:50] Bobby Steggert: So a lot of energy going outward. Almost all of it I would say.

[31:52] Emily Walton: Almost all of it. Which then explains this feeling, this anxiety like what's in here? What's inside? And what's yeah, what's in here and what I think I've spent so much time looking at other people and being so awed by their seeming ability to know themselves and for their insides to match their outsides.

[32:11] Bobby Steggert: And even though now I understand that's not we're all pretending. But I have felt throughout my adulthood so much confusion and like pain about that where it's like, why don't I know myself? Why don't I know what books I like to read and music I like to listen to. And what when I am asked a question like that, why do I not know the answer?

[32:31] Emily Walton: What would have kept you back in those years from reading the book? That's just the metaphor.

[32:34] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. What would have kept me from doing that. And was it anxiety? Was it needing to do something out in the world, needing to do something that was for your career for the perception of you?

[32:43] Emily Walton: I think it was just like fear of not reading the right book.

[32:46] Bobby Steggert: Ah if I don't know how I feel I can't make the right choice.

[32:49] Emily Walton: Oh god it's and I still have that. I still question my choices all the time. Small ones and big ones but now more small ones where it's like there are so many options. I could read so many different books and I'll start one and then say no that's not the right one. And it's yeah I definitely still do that.

[33:03] Bobby Steggert: But right it's fear of making the wrong choice and then not having the right thing to talk about with whoever I'm envisioning a conversation with.

[33:11] Emily Walton: So it's still a socially oriented fear.

[33:14] Bobby Steggert: It is and I it's so confusing to me as we're talking about this because I feel like I know I have friends and I like to talk to people. I like being around people. I'm not scared of that. But yeah, it's just undercurrent of fear that if something is removed, some like veneer that there's actually no one. There's there's nothing here for you to see.

[33:29] Emily Walton: This is so interesting because what I'm thinking about is an extreme example of this is toxic masculinity. So many men are told that they're not supposed to investigate. So they end up having a midlife crisis when they're 50 because they've never investigated.

[33:44] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[33:44] Emily Walton: And you didn't grow up in a toxic environment. You grew up not having to question a lot.

[33:49] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, yeah. And I think in some ways that made for a very fortunate and happy life where I, yeah, that was lucky to get cast in shows. I was lucky enough to have opportunities to continue to lose myself in all of these things. And that was a gift in some ways, but now I see that it was like, I don't want to say damaging, but it definitely has had an impact on my ability to have self-trust.

[34:11] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[34:12] Bobby Steggert: I also wonder if being around a bunch of actors beyond your family, just growing up in the theater also tricked you in that we're talking about this idea of self-knowledge. And yes, many actors are deep in their self-knowledge, but many are just really good at presenting. That's part of the job. And so did you imagine other people really knew everything about themselves, whereas you were on the other side of that wall?

[34:34] Emily Walton: Yeah, but then I want to know why, because I I was on both sides of that. I was seeing people on stage and then meeting them, and I spent so much actual time with the people behind the actor. Do you know what I mean? Like enough exposure to just people talking as themselves, not as people on stage. But yeah, definitely that's part of the job. A confidence is being self-possessed, having some trust in yourself to do this really scary and vulnerable thing. So yeah, definitely that I would say.

[34:59] Bobby Steggert: When you finally started turning the observational capacity inward, we've already kind of talked about what you started learning. When did it start to make a little bit of sense?

[35:10] Emily Walton: I think it started to make sense when I was applying to grad school. So just not that long ago, if hand four years ago is when that process started. And feeling my own genuine excitement about that, this like growing excitement and enthusiasm that I wasn't trying to prove that to anyone. It became inherent. It was inherent. It was there without my putting it there. And nobody was, I wasn't even talking about it that much because it wasn't really relevant to the job that I was doing. Or like I'm saying, my family wasn't like, how are the grad school applications going? It was just the thing that I was pursuing quietly, but feeling really disburgeoning. I keep using the word excitement, but it was. I was like this quiet thing was growing inside of me. And that's how it started to shift.

[35:51] Bobby Steggert: And then when I started grad school, I was like, I remember coming home. I did one semester at City College and then I transferred. But when I got home from my first day of class, I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever done. I just felt like I was taking myself seriously as a person in the world. And that was maybe the first time I had really done that in a new way that nobody else needed to see or know.

[36:09] Emily Walton: Did you intentionally keep it somewhat private for that reason?

[36:12] Bobby Steggert: I think I did. I was always thrilled to talk about it if anybody wanted to, but I felt like nobody really wants to, and that's okay. I talked about it with Max with my partner. He was so on board and so there for all of it. And I was making new friends in the program that I got to talk about it with. People cared and people were supportive, but it wasn't like the focus of the conversation. So yeah, I think it was this little proud private thing that was happening for me.

[36:35] Emily Walton: Oh, I so get that.

[36:36] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. It's like you're oriented as a performer, always thinking about the outward. And so if you can foster this little core of something that is just for you, and you can watch it grow, you also watch your capacity for self-knowledge grow.

[36:52] Emily Walton: I think that's so it. It's it was the lack of having to talk about it, having to express, having to show it that made it that much clearer to me that it was real, that like, oh, this is something I'm actually interested in. If I've spent years questioning that, what do I actually like? Now I have an answer, like this because I feel it in such a pure way. And I that's a really cool thing, and I'm happy about that.

[37:13] Bobby Steggert: And I think the gift of being a therapist, which I hope you're learning, and you will continue to learn, is like our interiorities are all so different, but we all worry about the exact same things.

[37:23] Emily Walton: Yeah.

[37:23] Bobby Steggert: What are you learning in your early days?

[37:25] Emily Walton: Oh my god, there's such early days. I just have to preface all of all of this by saying that. I think I'm learning a version of what you just described, that there are so many through lines. I think, especially with people in a career in the performing arts, there is a commonality to the self-questioning and a lack of self-trust. And I think there's clearly so much good that can come just from this. I'm so moved by the idea that things can change just from two people using their words to talk. That you can see that in another person. You can feel that even just sitting there and talking, even if there have been no major breakthroughs or emotional outbursts or something, it still is like there's change. And that's really powerful.

[38:05] Bobby Steggert: And that's why even just this is so cool, like talking to you. It's there's so much that can happen just from two people communicating.

[38:11] Emily Walton: I don't know. That sounds so like basic or something.

[38:14] Bobby Steggert: No, but it's profound and simple.

[38:16] Emily Walton: It's profound and simple, yeah. And part of the reason I do this podcast is because I also so deeply love actors.

[38:21] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[38:22] Emily Walton: What do you love about actors?

[38:23] Bobby Steggert: So much. I love that there's just an aliveness to actors. There's a playfulness, there's an animatedness. And I think it also is like a there's a sense of humor. Even though we actors take the work we do seriously, there still is like a level of whimsy. I don't know, nobody communicates like actors. There's like a way that actors talk and express themselves that is so unique and so fun.

[38:45] Emily Walton: And I really miss that.

[38:46] Bobby Steggert: Me too.

[38:47] Emily Walton: There's just a spark. It's quick. There's a quickness to the way that so many actors communicate.

[38:51] Bobby Steggert: And that's right. A wittiness, and I don't know. And part of the aliveness is that actors are in their bodies.

[38:56] Emily Walton: Yeah, yeah.

[38:57] Bobby Steggert: And that's so exciting.

[38:58] Emily Walton: I think that's what it is.

[38:59] Bobby Steggert: That way I was gonna say there's an embodiment. And I don't know that always is the self-knowledge we're talking about, but it's a it's a form of self-knowledge.

[39:05] Emily Walton: It is a form of self-knowledge. It's a I'm here. And I think that's because like our bodies as actors are our vessels. That's what we use to communicate. I do like really miss that kind of engagement.

[39:14] Bobby Steggert: Me too.

[39:15] Emily Walton: I I say I'm done, but I I wouldn't be done if someone said do this great play.

[39:19] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[39:19] Emily Walton: Are you done for now?

[39:20] Bobby Steggert: I also wouldn't be done if someone said do this great play. Like I can feel that to be true.

[39:24] Emily Walton: I feel like the door will always remain slightly ajar for me.

[39:27] Bobby Steggert: I and like I said, it hasn't been so long for me that it's like, oh god, that's ancient history. It's not, it's very recent history.

[39:33] Emily Walton: Yeah, I don't know how the logistics of it would work, especially now if I have kids, and I don't understand like how people do that. But although I should because my parents did that and I was their kid, but as it was happening. But yeah, I definitely wouldn't say no to the right thing.

[39:46] Bobby Steggert: Do you still sing with your angel voice to your children?

[39:48] Emily Walton: Oh my god. You have to sound called like an angel voice. I sing to my children all the time. But here's a funny thing. There are so many times where I'm like, oh my god, this is the decision thing, where I'm like, I don't know what to sing right now. And that's so silly. Because you could sing anything and they'd be like, they'd probably not care. My two-year-old doesn't really care. She wants me to sing wheels on the bus.

[40:06] Bobby Steggert: Although I will say my mom has been showing her B-roll clips on YouTube from like the Meet Me in St. Louis that I did at the music.

[40:12] Emily Walton: With the real trolley.

[40:13] Bobby Steggert: With the real trolls. I saw that clip.

[40:16] Emily Walton: Oh man. That was like a major highlight of my career for sure. And now that Olive, my daughter is obsessed with the four-minute B-roll, so she doesn't even know the full songs. She knows the medley version that bleeds into the next. But she's always wanting me to say trolley song. She says plain claim and I sing it in. Yeah, it's just really cute.

[40:34] Bobby Steggert: That is the best kind of education. Just old gay Hollywood jackshaw.

[40:38] Emily Walton: It is, and I love, and then sometimes we play the actual version like Judy Garland, and she'll say mommy, and I'm like, oh honey. What I wouldn't give. But then also I gotta just share this cute ass thing she did where we started singing that song, and I was like, the lyric is like for the moment I saw him, I fell. She goes, Ow. In the little space between like a musical right on the downbeat. The moment I saw him, I fell. Ow.

[41:00] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[41:00] Emily Walton: It's she came up with that. I didn't tell her to do it.

[41:01] Bobby Steggert: Perfect.

[41:02] Emily Walton: She has rhythm.

[41:03] Bobby Steggert: She's got rhythm, baby.

[41:04] Emily Walton: Which is another form of self-knowledge.

[41:06] Bobby Steggert: Sure.

[41:06] Emily Walton: All right. We should mention that your supervisor is Terry Anderson.

[41:10] Bobby Steggert: Carrie Anderson.

[41:10] Emily Walton: So she's also a beloved theater performer.

[41:12] Bobby Steggert: She is. She was in Mamma Mia for years.

[41:15] Emily Walton: The best person who did that part.

[41:17] Bobby Steggert: Yes. What's it like to be friends with her and to work with her?

[41:20] Emily Walton: I it's been this has been such a cool full circle moment for us. So I've known Carrie since I was 15. We did my favorite year at musicals tonight together when I was a sophomore in high school.

[41:30] Bobby Steggert: With Jared Gardner.

[41:31] Emily Walton: Yeah, with Jared Gerdner. Oh my god. Yeah, I mean. And that was so that's an example of a thing. I did a couple of things in high school. That was one of them. And I met Carrie and we became friends. And then we were in Blue Bottle Collection later. I feel like there's always been this kinship between us from that young age, and following her career path and choosing to become a therapist to like a decade ago now, and being inspired by that, and obviously being inspired by you making that choice. It's just I feel like there have been people I've been looking to as the template for making this change. But anyway, reconnecting with her in this way and getting to learn from her in this capacity is has been very emotional, very moving.

And that she's kind of taking a chance on me, hiring me as her. I don't know. I'm brand new at this, but I think her investment in me as a person, her knowledge of me for all of these years, that trust is very powerful, and she's really great at this. And I'm really honored to be learning from her. So it's a really cool deepening of our relationship.

[42:27] Bobby Steggert: How fortunate for both of you.

[42:29] Emily Walton: Yeah, I think she would say the same thing. I think this is really cool for her because she's growing her practice and she's getting to say, hey, guys, I've been doing this for a decade, and I have my own thing. I have my own practice, and here's my employee, and I get to be her employee. And we're also just treating each other with such care and respect. And uh that feels really good too. That it doesn't feel like this a formal professional relationship. It's very deep and lived in, but just with this brand new color.

[42:55] Bobby Steggert: How do people find you if they want to find you?

[42:56] Emily Walton: They can find me at CreativeCareMentalHealthConseling.com. But also, I guess Instagram too is a thing.

[43:00] Bobby Steggert: We still use the Instagram.

[43:02] Emily Walton: Do you use the Instagram thing?

[43:05] Bobby Steggert: We still use Instagram, but I did create a professional account. So that's at Emily Walton Therapy.

[43:10] Emily Walton: That's very easy to remember.

[43:12] Bobby Steggert: This is easy to remember.

[43:12] Emily Walton: Okay. Because if you look at my personal account, it's a lot of garbage on there, and I probably should delete it.

[43:18] Bobby Steggert: That would be a good idea.

[43:19] Emily Walton: Don't you think?

[43:19] Bobby Steggert: Yeah.

[43:20] Emily Walton: Yeah. Because I have a whole I had a whole thing, like hashtag pollen spring peepee, which I shouldn't be.

[43:25] Bobby Steggert: Okay. Are there any nudes?

[43:26] Emily Walton: There are no nudes.

[43:27] Bobby Steggert: Okay.

[43:27] Emily Walton: Oh god, no nudes. No, just bottles of urine that I see on the street.

[43:31] Bobby Steggert: Oh, do you have a weird thing about Do you know that?

[43:34] Emily Walton: No.

[43:34] Bobby Steggert: Oh, Bobby.

[43:34] Emily Walton: We'll erase the thought.

[43:36] Bobby Steggert: Damn.