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[0:09] Robert Bannon: Welcome to the round table, everybody. My name is Robert Bannon. You're listening to some Broadway's World over here on the Broadway's Podcast Network, iHeart, Spotify, wherever you listen to artists talking about art. We have an artiste. Our guest does a little bit of everything. He's making movies. He's a Broadway's star. He does it all. He's been on stages to screens all over the place. And now he's here to tell us all about it. I am so excited. Doron, welcome to the round table.

[0:35] Doron JéPaul: Wow, it is such a gift to be here. That was great too. You nailed that.

[0:39] Robert Bannon: No, I've done this before. You know, we were talking before you came on, you said that you looked a little bit. I'm gonna get right into this question because I find it fascinating. You are an artist and you are a creator. Do you consume art? And in what way?

[0:56] Doron JéPaul: Ooh, well, I am a creative architect by trade. So what does that mean? You're not building a house, a garage somewhere. Well, look, listen, when I was in undergrad back in the day, even though I still feel like I can be 22. But yeah, no, my wife would say otherwise. I had a dream of being an architect. I thought it would be romantic, you know, living in Seattle, just sketching houses. And in 2021, during that little thing called the global pandemic that we all navigated, man, that's crazy because it's been six years now. It's not two years ago. But I remember praying, and you know, I'm a man of faith, and for me, it felt like God told me, "Oh, you're a creative architect." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, I get to be an architect, my childhood romanticized dream, but I get to do it in a way that is actually connected to the purpose, the calling, the skill set that I have."

And so as a creative architect, I always tell people my job is to cultivate, empower, enlighten, entertain, and educate through storytelling. So if that's as an actor, yay! If that's as a writer, yes. If that's as a producer, all right. If that's as a director recently, it's been like, wow, okay, if that's as a musician, I recently took up learning how to play the violin. Cause why not? Yo, every day right now it's all about finger placement. I'm spending all my time getting my pinky to curl. It's with it, uh, Wendy and Peter, Captain Hook, the alligator rest, and Tinkerbell sits on top. That's what I learned from an excellent violinist. His name's Edward Cuffy or Edward Hardy. He played Cuffy in this production I just recently did.

And so for me, as a creative architect, my job is to cultivate story, and I'm just blessed that I've been allowed so far in my life to explore creativity in a myriad of ways. And so the way that I consume art these days, to go back to your initial question, is I mean, I love movies. I love movies. I'm one of those like Spielbergies where when I was a kid I had the camcorder and was like directing my siblings and writing fake skits, even though at the time, you know, I had no idea of being an artist. I was just like, I watched Indiana Jones so many times that that VHS ran out of tape. And my nickname growing up in my family was the professor because I wanted to be an archaeologist like Indiana Jones.

I wanted to wear the hat, which I still, you know, I still carry those like, you know, those random cowboy hats or free doors where you're like, I was the kid in high school who had a briefcase for two years. Like, you know, and this is like Hillary Duff's high school. So, you know, this is the aughts late 90s. So let's just say it wasn't yet hip, you know.

[3:54] Robert Bannon: Yeah, oh, so you're my age. You're in my age range.

[3:56] Doron JéPaul: I'm in, let's say I've seen a couple presidents. How about that?

[4:01] Robert Bannon: As have I, as have I, and a couple decades.

[4:01] Doron JéPaul: And a couple decades. That's a couple. We drink our water, we mind our business. I woke up today like, oh, what is going on with my puffy face? How old am I? Get it together.

[4:17] Doron JéPaul: Oh my goodness. No, I recently, this is so random. But um, my barber, he recently helped restore this. This is all natural, but there was a time when I thought about three years ago, this looked like it was leaving, and I said, "No, no," and God be the glory, it's back.

[4:34] Robert Bannon: So, what did you do?

[4:35] Doron JéPaul: So, my barber is my sister-in-law, and say snook, and so my issue with my this is not a this is not a creative architect kind of conversation. Very creative in choice, yes.

[4:46] Doron JéPaul: So, see, I was starting to get baby hair, but I am not Janet Jackson, and I could not live with that. Like, it's not cute on me where they're just like, "Oop, hair is just coming," but then the rest was leaving. So, I was just getting like a row of baby hair, and then we had to make them meet and find some common ground. So, I feel your pain. Are you a vain guy?

[5:08] Robert Bannon: Am I a what?

[5:09] Doron JéPaul: Vain.

[5:09] Robert Bannon: Do you feel vain is like a vanity?

[5:12] Doron JéPaul: No, I I'm a realist. I'm not vain. I just I have four siblings. I have an older sister, she's got two kids, where my niece just celebrated her fourth birthday yesterday. And I have three younger siblings, and we grew up roasting each other. You know, we make music together, we write skits together, you know, both of my siblings are recording artists, so like their music is out there, like they're models and recording artists. Like they're Gyel and Adele are doing a thing. And growing up, it was always like you gotta be quick because you can get roasted for every little thing. So I always say, like, I try to take everything seriously, but nothing personal.

[6:00] Robert Bannon: Got it.

[6:00] Doron JéPaul: And I think that that has helped me as an artist, especially in a New York City climate where as an actor, you know, you're only as good as how your face looks. It's like, or your voice, or you know, I'm 6'3", and so sometimes you walk in a room and they're like, "Well, you're much taller than I thought." And I was like, "Yeah, I know I give off 5'10 energy, like really relatable, like down to earth," you know, like and then you walk in, you're like, "You Adam Driver height, whoa, what's going on?" I was like, "Yeah, you know, got a little basketball, football in me."

[6:31] Robert Bannon: Well, your story is amazing when you read about you. You are born in Hawaii, raised in Germany, and then end up in Colorado. But you go to Seattle, but you were not like the story, the typical, like, I'm a theater entertainment kid. You talk about watching movies and all, but you were not trying to like shuffle off to Buffalo and live your best Broadway's life.

[6:53] Doron JéPaul: You know, I was trying to shuffle off to the Denver Broncos to be Ed McCaffrey 2.0, and then eventually become an offensive coordinator because at the time there were no blackwoods. I tell people often, I mean, that's I went to school for applied mathematics and music composition. I was trying to be a high school math teacher, which is, you know, very honorable now. It sounds very like po, it's like, "Oh," I was like, "No, it's just cause that's what I knew." Like I'm good at math. I understood the value of like representation. You know, I had over the course of my entire educational career, I think I've had three black male teachers ever. And I think I had, and two of them were in college. And so I knew the value of like, "Oh, what would it look like to talk to these young men and talk to these young women and be able to encourage them and be like, 'Hey, if you look like me, the blah blah blah.'" And I wanted to just be a football coach.

I, you know, Friday Night Lights, again, had I known that I was gonna be an actor, I should have hit up Alexa Fogel and been like, "Yo, Texas forever. I got you." Like, cause I actually I can run the route. I got you. This is my... But uh no, I was trying to I was I was on a path, I was a Gates scholar, so I was on a path to education, getting my I was going to get my doctorate in education reform. Like education's really important to me. I think that it's all we really have. I think it's the currency of the world, and we're seeing that more and more now, where you know, people aren't reading, um, children don't read, people don't know how to communicate with strangers, like and a lot of that comes from education.

And my mother was an early childhood development education, my father was army, so that's its own education. Um, and so for me that was always the goal in little old ACL tear Oscar night 20 something. I'll never forget it because it was on the Oscar night, which is why I think it's ironic that I became an actor. Because I tore my ACL, ACL, MCL, Meniscus, and kneecap, five seconds left in the game, the night of the Oscars. I come home and I was a whole bunch of people in my house watching the Oscars in college, and here I am coming back from a basketball game that we ended up losing in overtime. And I'm like, "Oh, I think I messed my knee up, but it'll be okay," only to discover I had destroyed it.

And in that season of getting surgery, um, I eventually transitioned my major from mathematics into full-time music, which then kind of opened me up to more of the arts again. And I had been a techie, like I've been a carpenter, I'd been a deck crew person, I'd built a whole bunch of sets, I'd been around actors, and because I wasn't playing sports and I wasn't as nimble as I thought, I was like, "Yeah, no, I'll find, I'll audition for a play." I just for the play, and this man, Andrew Manley, came up to me while I was doing Macbeth. He cast me as Macduff, and I made up every line. I swear to you, he was like, "You were great." And I was like, "You don't have to lie." Like, I now that I've been, it's like I've been on Broadway's now.

You can say I always knew, but I'm like, you know, I was just I was making up shit. Like, let's be fair. And he was like, he came up to me and he said to me, "Have you ever considered going to grad school for acting?" And I was like, "No, I'm a Gates scholar for education." And one thing led to another, and God had a different way, and it moved me to New York, what was now 12 years, it'll be 12 years in two weeks. And you know, went to NYU and the rest was history. Like, honestly, my whole life, and it's why I don't take it lightly that my steps are ordered. Because objectively, I can be in a play, you know. You know, I was in a play last month with a new project from Anna DeVere Smith, and I'm talking to one of the actors in the play, brilliant actor, and he's like, "How are you feeling?

You're nervous?" And I said, "Every single project that I've ever done, I get giddy because I feel like I'm playing with house money." Because objectively, 12 years ago I was playing beer pong in Colorado Springs. Like I, you know, so I try not to ever again take anything too personally. I take everything like, "Oh, well, I must keep doing this then." But that goes back to your comments about being a man of faith. Like, there's a journey and a divine order and God. It has to feel bigger than you because the amount of million decisions that had to have led good, bad, and ugly and have led you to this moment.

[11:23] Doron JéPaul: Yeah, man. That's a really beautiful way to state that. And I think so much of my artistic exploration has been a series of, you know, I believe, you know, scripture says it talks about this idea of like the you can have plans, but the Lord will order your steps, and like, you know, people put that on like Instagram and you know, churchy people will preach it, but I think living a life of I had plans, and it didn't involve taking out debt to go to NYU. You know, it didn't involve years of questioning, like, am I even good at this, or am I just lucky? You know, has the ball passed me, you know, the comparison mind, anxiety that comes from so much of what it means to be an artist, especially in this climate of, you know, consolidation and attachments and AI and you know politics and all of the questions of like, you know, well, back in my day you could, and it's like, well, in my day, you take your shirt off and do rage bait, you get millions of followers, and then you get cast in a play.

So like, I don't know anymore. But I think he said, "Oh crap, you read that." I think that for me, my faith and my understanding and trust that God truly is ordering my steps makes it easier for me to one enjoy my steps, and two to simplify my path to go like, "Okay, well, in this era, you know, a couple years ago, I was getting married, and I had just finished a piano lesson, and God was like, start this production company," and I was like, "I ain't got no money. What am I, what am I like? You don't what? Or I don't have any projects, or like, what am I, why?"

[13:14] Doron JéPaul: But then you do it, and I spent the year of 2024 producing, and suddenly I went from helping friends connect with other friends because I have a really good memory and I like people and I'm good at math, whatever. Um, and next thing you know, I'm producing this feature film, Ben and Suzanne, and it gets into South by Southwest, and now I'm a real producer, and suddenly it's like I'm reading decks, and I'm going, Oh, this story would be great, but have you considered casting this way? And little by little I develop this skill that I go, Oh, this has always been bigger than me becoming the next Brad Pitt, which Rob, like, if anyone asked you back in the day, it was like, What's Duron's dream? I was like, I'm just trying to be Brad Pitt.

Like, I'm just trying to do a river runs through it, and that's a good movie. See, the deep cuts, the kids don't know about that. They don't know about Legends of the Fall, and they don't know about a river runs through it. River Runs Through it's my favorite movie of all time. I watch it at least once a year. I think Robert Redford, if there was ever an artist that I admire in a way that, like when he died, you kind of was sad. Robert Redford was that for me because I'm a cowboy, like I come from the West. I want to just fish and hang out with my friends and hug guys and like be chill and like be goofy. And I feel like Robert explored a version of that that still felt masculine. And I think as a storyteller now, I am starting to finally realize that, like, oh, the goal was never to try to be the next Brad Pitt.

The goal was like be the first Doron JéPaul because like that will shift the atmosphere for those around me who one are maybe hearing my words or reading my plays or watching my films, or even just being like, oh wait, you were part of that, or oh wait, you know that person. And I feel like that's kind of where thermostat media started to then bubble.

[15:18] Robert Bannon: I love that. So you're interesting. I don't know you, I know you for 16 minutes. 17 minutes. You're interesting because for me, there's a whole bunch of this conversation could go in a million directions, but you know, for me, I have a my husband is a very, you know, there's a stereotype. He's a he's he'll say, I'm a black gay man from Detroit, and there's a certain attitude and a certain way that on the street I feel like I have to be. But behind the scenes, I am this other person. And what's interesting about you, you talk about faith, you talk about your wife, you talk about being a cowboy, you talk about the sports, you talk about being a creative architect. There's so many pieces of you that combine, and it's more than you're more than I'm just a Broadway's performer.

I'm more than just an actor. I'm more than one thing. And they all combine into a, I think it you challenge the idea of what it means to be masculine man. You challenge the idea of what it means to be a man of color in America. You challenge the idea of what it means to be a husband. Because people will say, like, oh, he's an actor. You have an assumption about what that means. Oh, he's a he grew up here, did and that is what this conversation moves me about. People that will listen to this because they'll be like, look at him. He could be a football player and a basketball player and a mathematician and an actor and write make movies. And that is what is special about what you do.

[16:39] Doron JéPaul: Thank you. I resonate so deeply with you sharing, and it really means a lot. My mother used to, she used to say this to my fourth grade teacher, Miss Phillips back in Germany. She was like, Well, my son's a stereotype breaker, and I remember that. And I like, yes. I think it's still maybe on my website somewhere. It used to be a thing that I I was like, yeah, yeah. And then as I got older, I realized that stereotypes are built out of fear, and they're built out of our own fears, portrayed on other people's perspective of us. And I I like to read, I'm one of those, like I could, I have a whole my library's over there. Um, I know I don't know if anyone ever uses a camera. It's like, oh, and there's my dog, no, I'm just kidding.

Um I just believe that like I started to embrace that when I was like in fourth grade. And by the time I got to college, you know, my father used to tell me, right, dare to be a thermostat and not a thermometer. Thermometers adapt to the culture and climate around them, thermostats shift the atmosphere. But the most important thing about a thermostat is what I like to always tell people is that most people don't know where the thermostat is in the room. Because all they care about is the temperature. So when someone walks into your house, you and your husband, and the temperature's an even 70 degrees, they're not going, where's the thermostat? It's only when the temperature's really, really hot or really, really cold do they their eyes shift towards where's the thermostat.

And as a thermostat in this industry, as a thermostat as an artist, I believe that God has called me to be the type of person where maybe when things are too cold or too hot, the attention is on me. But the default setting is you just enjoy the story. The default setting is wow. I just watched uh, you know, I'm working on a book right now. It's my first ever novel. And it's I knew it was gonna be a film, but I felt like I needed to write this as a novel first. And it's about uh two boys in their friendship, and it spans from when they're 11 until when they're like 38 or so. Um, because I asked myself the question, why don't men maintain friendships? And what is it about intimacy amongst men that we either run from or we have to compartmentalize, or we have and compartmentalize in always, right?

It's like I watched uh Lucas Don't uh Lucas' film, he wrote a film called Close. It's one of the best films I saw that year, a couple years ago. It's breathtaking film. If you haven't seen it or your viewers haven't seen it, um, I I think he's one of the most brilliant directors of this generation, and it was all about these two boys and like growing up, and they I think they go from like it easily could have been seventh or eighth grade, and it's like the transition when like suddenly sleepovers and holding hands or bike riding together goes from being like this is my best friend and I love you, to now I have to choose whether or not this is my best friend and I love you means I want to have sex with you.

Yeah, but these are kids, and so I keep saying, like, well, why did we rob men of the ability to be vulnerable? Blanket statement, like before we even start putting thoughts on it or labels on it. And I found like writing this book, writing this novel about these two boys, um, first off allowed me to explore one of the things that I know I've been called to do as a creative architect, which is debunk and in many ways expose the ridiculousness of hyper masculinity, um, by showcasing these other facets. So it really means a lot that you say that, and then I think on the other side of that, I just want artists to ask more questions, which will allow them to talk to more people, which will allow them to wrestle with the conflicts in their own minds.

[20:37] Robert Bannon: So, as you were saying, it's like it's one thing to be like, oh, he's a Broadway's actor, and you know, I used to I remember I used to do that all the time, especially like 2018, 2019, 2020, to kill a mockingbird into the pandemic. Um, honestly from 2016 on with Flando Castile being murdered while I was at the Guthrie, constantly feeling like I had to lead with as a black man in America, and then you would say how you felt. Just like we hear people say, Well, as a woman, and then you share how you felt. And I wondered, well, what if we were creating, what if we created a culture where you could share how you felt, and then that information that is the lens in which you feel it is just enhancing it, as opposed to it's the qualifier.

And I feel like the work that I've been called to create forces people to spend more time thinking about the story and less time thinking about the qualifier. So there's something beautiful about, you know, I'm a banana bread connoisseur. My favorite TV show is Gilmore Girls. I played lacrosse and football. I wrote string quartets, but also really, really, really enjoy Interstellar. I am a Christian and a minister at my local church in Queens. And yet, at the same breath, like I am a pretty darn good beer pong player. Like, you know, it's like these dichotomies that force people to go, whoa, well, what if that's what that means, then maybe I am a little bit more uh thermostatic in my own life.

And that's kind of what I'm hoping to explore. And I think with even the film Rest, like that's that's what this film was. It was an act of obedience to explore that first with what I felt were black men, and specifically how many black men I've talked to who have interesting relationships with their fathers. And so for me, it was like, well, let me start with what I know, right? Right, which you know, and I was like, Well, I am a black guy, and I do have a black dad, and we have a beautiful but really interesting relationship. Why not explore that? And I think there was something incredible about the makeup of how this project came to be and the opportunity to bum around all of the country living out of a car with my now wife nomadically, and just shooting random things and shooting my dad, and and it becoming my own version of this, like docummix media.

[23:02] Doron JéPaul: I feel like now that I've met Anna DeVere Smith, I was like, it's very Anna DeVere Smithy like film that explores why black men constantly feel like they can't just rest or just be the way it sounds like your husband is sharing, or the way that I try to portray.

[23:19] Robert Bannon: What firstly, a couple, we're gonna get to the movie because it's fascinating to me. And as a I'm loving, I'm gonna go there because I feel comfortable with you. As a white man who has, you know, black in-laws, and the culture, people talk about stereotypes, but sometimes it's not a stereotype. Culturally, I learned so much about it observation. We raised differently. My husband says I'm I'm the beige, I'd be the beige parent. I'm the beige parent. He's the okay, you know, there's a different, there's all these. Um, but I want to say something really quick about what your mom. She sounds brilliant because when I went to acting school, when I graduated from conservatory, my acting teacher said to me, Robert, you're gonna have a tough time.

And I was like, Oh, damn, I must not be a good actor. And she said, There is no Robert, there is no lane for you. You're gonna have to create a Robert Bannon lane. And it really hurt my feet, it made me want to not do this because I hear what your mom said because I was like, No, I just wanna be so-and-so, and some casting director finds me, or I have a fancy friend who I could send an email to, and they're gonna get me a great agent, and I'm gonna be on a TV show in a year. Like, I want to follow that lane. Like that, where's that lane? She said, There is no lane. You're gonna have to build it. And as a young person, that's very hard to hear because it sounds scary. So your mom saw that at you, and now you've built this lane for you.

And you have done what people say you can't do, because you you just go in an audition and get a Broadway's and get Broadway's show. I know with a lot of hard work, get Broadway's shows, or make a movie with touring around the country living out of your car, and and be able to get it put onto a major platform and be able to be seen. And and and these are major things that you've created that lane that your mom was talking about back then. That's beautiful.

[25:01] Doron JéPaul: A Father's Day acknowledgement, but a Mother's Day gift. You know what I mean? Like, I'm so grateful for you saying that. And I was talking to my mom yesterday, we were FaceTiming. Um, and yeah, it's I think it's really cool. I think it's something that I'm learning. I'm just now and I I credit my wife for this. She does a great job of I'll say strongly encouraging as opposed to saying forcing. Strongly encourages me to sit and receive praise or receive the acknowledgement. It's very easy for me to skirt past it and be like, all right, yeah, Robert, what you just said, but you know, and he's it's like, shut up, just take it and go, like, yeah, it's it's a blessing. And I just I just again, I think when you're playing with house money, because you in my mind, right?

I this is all I'm doing this for him. So I'm like, well, better I I can only I can only fail if I don't try. And so why not just try? And I think if I wish more conservatories and teachers were as brave as your teacher was to say at an early age, hey, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna suck. Some days it really actually isn't gonna feel great at all. And it might actually not be monetarily great, but dang it, are you gonna be at peace? And at the end of the day, I would take, and especially in a 2026 climate, I would take peace of mind and peace of heart and a sense of purpose over any earthly provision that could come today and be gone tomorrow.

[26:40] Doron JéPaul: I don't think our soul and our worth and our name is worth any amount of money in this climate at all. Um, rest, which is your film, which stands with the question in it that says, why don't black men rest? And that's very funny because if I had a dollar for every time I ask my own black man why he can't sit down, why can't, right? And you have the song on it as well called "Why Not Today?" The film is available while we're talking about. I just want people to know that you can go to blackpublicmedia.org, and this is Black Public Media continues to do the work about black stories. They've lost 1.8 million dollars in the current climate that they need our help more than ever, and they're fundraising up to nine million dollars over the next two years, otherwise, there won't be a way for incredible stories to be told.

And sure, these stories are not interfered with the current environment that we're in where we just erase history or change history with the stroke of a pen. So it's important we support this. Why this movie? What's the story, and why don't black men rest?

[27:48] Doron JéPaul: Man, well, it starts with this idea of the film's acronym. Um, I've been praying in 2020 about it a lot because, I mean, in 2020, the world went still. I always say people were sent to their rooms to think about what they've done. That's how I describe it. It's like, oh, it's God's way of sending us all to our room to think about what we've done. Um, better that than an arc and a flood out at I—well, come on now. So I, um, geez, that's actually just a bar. Oh, I'm gonna steal that. I'm just gonna steal that at some point in my life. Um, while I was sitting, I started to think about what rest really is, because I don't think rest is sleep. And I think that a lot of people convolute rest with sleeping.

And the problem with that is then you sometimes are like, well, I just need to sleep more, or I just need to not do anything anymore. And that's how you get stigmas behind people being lazy or people not having ambition, you know? And it's like, no, rest is actually a very active thing. I think about it as someone who works out. It's like your body, your muscles need recovery time. It's called active recovery. And so sometimes it's stillness and sleep, but sometimes it really is just your brain getting a chance to absorb that which you've processed. And so the acronym for rest was release, expect, surrender, and trust. And I felt like during that era of being like, okay, if rest is an active thing and rest stands for these four things to release control, to expect something greater, to surrender to someone higher, and to trust that it's gonna work out.

Those are all four things that you can actively do. And that suddenly made the idea of like, well, then why don't I rest? Is it because I don't want to release control? Am I a control freak? Is that what's at the, you know, and these are no negatives to this, it's just questions for the self. Is it because I don't expect anything? Am I too apathetic? Have I become so numb to the world that there's no sense of purpose or passion? Surrender, surrender to something higher. Do I have a faith-based system that is greater than myself? Because at the end of the day, if I am my—if I am God and we are God, period, that's a really—that's for me personally. I'm like, that's a very heavy burden because that means that I am then subsequently responsible for all of the BS that's going on across the seas.

I am suddenly at fault for the countless children that are going hungry right now. It's like, that's a lot. So am I surrendered to something greater? And then last, do I trust that things are gonna work out? Is there some element of hope left in you? And that sense of joy and hope for me was one of the first big ones. It was that one, and it was the ability to release. I think the top and bottoms were that was the hardest for me to navigate. I feel like with many men, and I think for the sake of this project, because I'm a black man, and I was talking really exploring my father, my grandfather, it was easy to then relate it to black men specifically. But I feel like that's a conversation that men, women, children, anybody can actually ask themselves.

But I think that I was interested in asking that question about myself and then watching my father go through various forms of mental health challenges and, you know, being 21 years in the infantry, serving this country faithfully, loving his family, but then also having to wrestle with unexplored trauma, or my, you know, my dad wasn't the kind of person who—he didn't have the childhood I had where you're allowed to cry and be upset about certain things. I have a therapist that I've been going through for eight years, you know, his generation, you know, their generation, we can therapy, therapy, drink some water, you know? And so there's something about like wanting to explore what was it about my dad that made him both so magnetic to me, but at the same time, what was it about him and what was it in him that I start to fear in my own self?

You know, I was on the path, I was on the backs of turning 30 when the beginning of this exploration had started. I'm actively thinking about like, am I just gonna become my father, you know, as like the way he became his dad, you know?

[32:21] Doron JéPaul: My grandfather in the film is my mother's grandfather, is my mother's father. Um, I didn't really know my dad's dad, he's not really been around, that kind of thing. And that kind of allowed me to, at the beginning of it, I was just shooting random things and writing poetic reflections on those four points of the acronym. And so I initially it started out as four individual short films, which I told someone this once, and they were like, where are those films? And I was like, they're like unlisted on like I think my old YouTube channel, you know, like back when you were making random shorts with your friends, like they're there somewhere. I've been like one of them, I think I think one of them is like a six-minute—I was in a pool, whatever vibes.

Um, and so right around 2022, I'd moved back to New York and I started to see that there was a through line with it because I had also gotten married, and I was feeling this like I need to provide for my household. I need to, and all of a sudden my body was starting to feel like, hey, remember that rest thing that I had when I was growing my hair out and baking banana bread in 2020? Like, what happened? Where'd that go? And that was kind of the beginning of building this film out. And I think the thing that anchored the film was the song that I had written, which is so crazy going back to our conversation about ordered steps. I wrote that song in 2016. It was July of 2016. Philando Castile was murdered.

Yeah. And I was working at the Guthrie at the time. I remember sitting in my hotel room. And for some of the listeners who know, at the time, Philando Castile's murder was also kind of being aired live on Facebook through his partner. And here I am clicking a link, and I watched this man die on live TV. It's very Hunger Games-y and really absurdist if you really think about it at times where you're like, whoa. And I remember getting to the Guthrie the next day and doing a round table with the incredible staff and crew, and I was so angry because suddenly I felt like everything that I had known about being a black man and being a successful safe black man in America didn't matter anymore. Because suddenly I was like, oh, I went to Caro to college.

I was a master. Like I wore—I carried a briefcase. Like I love 80s music. Like I—Gilmore Girls is my favorite show. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm the most—I'm wearing the like fedora hat. I'm like, I'm like non-threatening black. Like, and yet it doesn't matter, you know? And I remember asking this idea of like, what do we do now? And there's a poem that's on my Vimeo about that, about like, what do we do now? And it was this other creative expression. And I thought about this idea of rest, and I asked, like, why don't we choose that today? And I write this song. It's—I used to write a lot of music when I was in high school because, you know, we were all John Mayer singer-songwriters, so of course.

But this is the first time I'm like writing. Yeah, I'm giving you all the deep cuts. I need it. You remember that. Jason Reeves on MySpace Music. I'm that age. I'm seeing—I get you. You remember. I'm like Kobe Callet, man. I DM'd her on MySpace Music when she first hit off, and she messaged me back because I was back in the day. She did. I loved her. I was back when we all had top friends and Tom was number one. That's a thing. That's my number again. No, okay, so we gotta stop. We gotta stop.

[35:55] Doron JéPaul: Um, but I write the song, and there was a music director there, and to this day, which is wild, and maybe, maybe he'll listen to this. And maybe someone can help me. This is a call to action, genuinely. Okay, let's find it. I do not remember who this man was. I know he existed, like, it was not like a ghost because he definitely taught all of us. And for some reason, I cannot remember his name. But there was an incredible singer, black man, he was the music director at the time of like helping us with the Guthrie experience in 2016. And through his generosity, he heard me playing it on the piano one day, and he said, we need to record this. And he purchased the studio time. He brought me in, he brought in my castmates, a handful of my castmates who felt comfortable singing, and we laid down that track for three, four hours.

And he told me after it was done, you know, it's a rough mix, but he did the thing. He said, you're gonna be grateful to have this song. This is important. You need to keep this. And it sat on my Google Drive. This is 2016. It sat on my Google Drive until 2025. In 2025, I was editing this film, realizing that it was, I think this is a full short. And there was this moment in the film right before the end in trust that I was like, what is it that I'm feeling? What is I'm feeling? And all of a sudden I was like, oh my god, I've got this one song, and I click on the Google Drive link, and there it is. And like obviously I truncated it down a little bit so that it could fit into the film because there's like a couple more parts in the song, and it was the perfect—it was the perfect thing.

Like it literally sat in an old computer folder on my Google Drive because that was back when I had like an HP, you know, and it's like your Chromebook Google Drive folder that said old computer. There's a file that said Guthrie, and inside that file said why not, and inside that was a wave file of this song that I had recorded with this guy, and it was the perfect culminating piece. And so what you hear at the beginning of the movie, the young man singing a cappella, and what you hear at the end of the movie, the woman singing a cappella, the young man at the beginning is my younger brother, Adele, because he like so he's a recording artist, he's out here, he's really, really talented. So he recorded that, and I had my older sister just record at the end for the credits, and it became this like perfect collection of a thing, and I say that to just say like all of those things don't happen without the thermostatic mentality of some man that I genuinely wish I could credit in the credits.

I just—I couldn't find him. I—I—he wasn't on the registrar, and so that is my call to action to this individual. Thank you again, whoever you are. Um, you believed in me when I didn't even know to believe in me. And I pray that this film one day reaches you. Um, wherever you are in Minnesota, uh, thank you because you are truly a gift. But yeah, so the film is on YouTube. You can be watching it right now. You can go, we'll have the link to directly be there so that you can hear it, hear the song, hear the incredible story. You know, while you were talking about your dad and your grandpa and your experiences and this incredible song, and that story is its own short and is why don't people rest, black men in particular rest.

And I was really sad, I got sad about thinking about it because I felt when you talked about this, it's dangerous to be a black man in America, even with a briefcase, even with a fedora, even watching Gilmore Girls.

[39:53] Doron JéPaul: So the idea of resting feels vulnerable and vulnerable is scary, and you always have to look, there's a look over your shoulder mentality. And um in my own life, there's a certain entitlement and and ego that I have in the world. And Darius, my husband, is very he listens to Josh Groban and country music and you know, he's like wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of shoes he wants to be in, you know, khakis in a polo and live his life like a very he's a banker, but the world doesn't know that about him. And so it's important that we so we rest. How do you rest? How do you get to a place to feel safe and vulnerable enough to sit still? White, black, man, woman, straight, gay, Jewish, Christian, period.

How do you do that? I think you have to surrender to the idea that this isn't everything. What I mean by that is because I believe that I am but a steward of the gift that is this life, and that one day this will all wither away. You know, scripture tells us that the grass may fade and um the birds may fly away, and yet his word will remain. Because I believe so deeply in the idea that my time on this earth is finite, but my soul has an eternity that it's going to, it makes it easier to choose vulnerability knowing the cost of it. And I think that many of us, again, men, women, children, black, white, queer, straight, whatever you want to call it, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, like the cost of vulnerability is the reward of connection.

You know what I mean? Like, period. No matter who you are, it's why I think working on that Anna Deavere Smith project was so beautiful. Why I think artists like her are so rare. Why I think we live in a culture where these things want us to stay in our algorithm, our bubbles, because the cost of our vulnerability, the cost of me sharing all the things that I've chosen to share with this stranger over the Zoom, and then potentially out into the world. The cost of that is the reward of connection. Because there is some person out there, insert whatever identifier who loves Gilmore Girls. And instantly their brain going, this man has seen every episode of Gilmore Girls so many times that he got the box set for Christmas from his younger brother, you know, the DVD box set, and I haven't opened yet because it's gonna be worth something, maybe.

It's a collector's idea. This person can connect with me. She can be 73 and from the upper west side and be the most uh she can have the most vitriolic experience that she's ever had with like a black man when she was 30 in her set in the 70s, whatever I'm making this up. But she can then see me and go, but but damn it, you're but we both like to make banana bread. Wait. I like it. And I think I love it. You know, crunchy. I want crunchy crust, but I'm beside I'm a connoisseur, so I can make it in many different ways. I got you. Okay now. You send me your mailing address and I'll just send you a little bit of a move. But I think that that that how we ch how do we rest as people, I just believe that it comes out of knowing that there's something greater than us.

I don't think you can rest if you if everything is about you. And I think it's so much easier for me as a man of faith, as a black man of faith, as a black man in America as a man of faith. Like all of those things to go, well, it is a danger for me to show up every day and walk on these streets in New York City. And it is a danger for me to cry. It is a danger for me to let people know where my weaknesses are, where my blind spots are. But I think out of that weakness, God's strength is like manifested and revealed. And there's something about that that I think makes me connectable to you. And I would argue that at the end of the day, someone shooting someone straight in the face, looking them dead in the eyes, would cost something.

It's why a lot of these situations happen from a distance. It's why wars happen from a distance. It's why we don't, you know, this is a whole separate conversation, but this is why when you used to have to challenge someone to a duel and pull out your sword and physically do the act, it costs something. And so often it didn't happen as frequently. I think that if more people were able to do this and say, I see you, Robert, I hear you, I feel you. Or uh, I see you insert whatever political party you're in. I hear you, I see you. I fundamentally disagree with everything you stand for, but I still see you and I love you. Both sides of that coin could then rest easy, knowing, well, I'm resting because that person has seen me.

And the cost of them saying, I see you and I still want to kill you, it's kind of psychotic. Am I right? Like 100% right. And at that point, for me, the end game was never here. And I think that if more people felt a version of that, and I think that's what art has the power to do, is it introduces people to other versions of that so that they can find the one, you know. I just talked about a river runs through it. How much I love that movie. How much I wish we made movies like that again, which is why I think I'm working on projects like that. Because there is someone who maybe they don't watch or rest and feel like they can rest. But man, when they see someone fly fishing on the Colorado River, it brings them that sense of it's bigger than me.

You know, when someone watched for the first time past lives and they saw the way she didn't, you know, spoiler alert for any people who didn't watch past lives, she didn't kiss that man and instead stayed faithful to her husband, even though she grieved that relationship. That person found their version of rest. Oh, I can rest in knowing that, like, yeah, dang, there was a guy that I let go, but I'm also happy in this. When people saw moonlight and they saw how the connect, you know, I mean, so like I can say this about pretty much any type of art, and I think that that's what how we rest, and that's where I know God has used me to minister to people is using art to introduce them to that concept in a way that maybe they wouldn't go to a church, they wouldn't catch themselves walking into a church building and hearing someone from a pulpit.

But Lord knows they'll watch a movie or they'll go watch a play and they'll be like, What is this that I'm feeling? And I'm like, Oh, you're feeling love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. And that's called the fruit of the spirit, and that's what thermostat media seeks to do. That's what I know as an individual. I'm called to bring to whatever I do. And it's where I feel my sense of rest is offering to others, hey, you too can tap into love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. And if you actively explore those things, there's no laws against those things. You know, there's a freedom with that. This is um, I'm excited. I'm excited for people to see this, excited for people to see the future.

I'm excited to see what happens. You know, I've been living in this mantra. Um personally, I very strongly have believed what you just said in a roundabout way that if you know somebody and see somebody and have a and love somebody, it's hard to hate somebody. So you know, so if you, if you experience people and you open yourself up to their story and their journey, then I think we can all find some common ground, even as you, or at least some kind of peace. And um, and secondly, I've been using this mantra a lot as you know, the better to have loved and lost than never love at all. I think that in life, in life, you know, sometimes we have to be vulnerable, we have to do things that are scary, we have to step out of our box, and it may hurt us and it may be a mistake and it may lead us down a different road, but it's better to have taken the risk in the journey.

And I think that it leads you to somewhere, and that is God and faith and and the future. And I don't get it. I had a very personal. We had a very my husband and I went through a foster and uh I don't talk about it ever, but we but it's you. So uh my new friend, we had this foster circumstance, and we had her for six months, and then she got placed with family. And I had to really go back to that kid that we used to go to church and really find to connect to something bigger than me because it knocked me on my butt hard. And I had to be like, I surrender to this. I don't know why this is happening. I don't know why I had this experience. I don't know why I feel this much pain, but I rather have loved this experience than have never had it.

And I know I'm learning something bigger and greater than me. And it's really scary, and I'm really not happy about it. But I have to believe in faith and trust. And it gave me rest to let go to that because I didn't have the words, but somebody, something greater than me, has it. There it is. They had it.

[49:45] Robert Bannon: Thank you for sharing that too. And I'm I'm very inspired by what you I'm very inspired by what you just share because I think there are more people on your platform, or people who are watching you, or people who are watching people who are maybe watching you. So, like, you know, six degrees of separation that are gonna be blessed and ministered by the idea and your willingness to be vulnerable enough to say, I have to surrender. I have to have to I have to release the control of this circumstance with this experience. I have to expect that okay, something better must be coming, either for me or for even this incredible child. I have to surrender to something bigger, and I gotta trust that like it's gonna work out.

And the fact that you did that and you're willing to share that. Like, I just I I do this, I do this all the time. So, like, I love you, and this is great because I really do care about you. And I just I pray, I pray, I really I just pray that God continue to give you peace. And God, I just thank you for this man, and I thank you for his faithfulness and steadfastness to even do this podcast and this interview. And I just pray that you give him a peace that surpasses all understanding, and that you meet him in even the seasons of his life where it can seem confusing, chaotic, um, and in many ways hopeless. I pray that you remind him of the fruit of the spirit, and that when he's still, you meet him the same way you met him when he was a kiddo in whatever church it was, you whisper to him and let him know that you love him, you see him, and that you're going to guide him as long as he continues to surrender to you in the ways that you call him to. Jesus' name, amen.

[51:21] Doron JéPaul: Amen. And I I send my prayers back to you because your prayer and this video, this this film and the message is important. People need to hear it. Thank you for that. And you want to have gospel singers on, I make them pray. So I just uh so thank you for doing that because that's my I love that. I love that, I love that. And and put them on the spot and be like, okay, come on, Tamil Man, give me a word. So I need to so thank you for sharing that. And um, and I want people to go see R.E.S.T. I want people to listen to it. I want people to follow you, all of that is stuff um that that we can do to support you. And we need filmmakers like you and artists and and and architects of of art and culture in this world that is so important for us all.

Um, you're a gem. Uh and I'm excited to see where the future holds. And and the journey is only begun. The best is yet to come for you. The best is yet to come. Come on, you got it. The best is yet. You're not gonna sing Donald Lawrence on this show right now.

[52:15] Doron JéPaul: Uh-oh. Come on, you got it. Come on, Tennessee! Sopranos, let's go! Sopranos, boobers. That's so good. We're hilarious. Yo, this has been a gift. It's a gem. Stay cool on this 4th of July weekend. Yes, and safe and rest. Take some time to rest. You know it. Rest. Thank you for being here.

[52:40] Robert Bannon: Thank you so much.