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[0:00] Robert Bannon: Are you ready?

[0:01] Robert Bannon: It's the Roundtable with me, Robert Bannon.

[0:04] Robert Bannon: Welcome to the Roundtable, everybody.

[0:05] Robert Bannon: My name is Robert Bannon. You're listening to us on Broadway World over here on the Broadway Podcast Network, iHeart and Spotify.

[0:10] Robert Bannon: You know, the first week of 2026, we've been talking to all these inspirational, incredible people.

[0:16] Robert Bannon: As we lead into this new year, how can we all be doing the best job that we possibly can?

[0:22] Robert Bannon: And you know, my husband says all the time that I am a sponge.

[0:26] Robert Bannon: He says, if I'm in the room and you have a certain feeling, I take it on, I carry it on in me.

[0:32] Robert Bannon: I guess you'd say kind of empathically, and some people would say, well, our next guest has made an entire career out of talking about our feelings and about being empaths and empathy with a brand new book that I need to get for my niece so that she can grow up to be a highly sensitive little lady called The Highly Sensitive Rabbit.

[0:51] Robert Bannon: I'm very excited. Hundreds of thousands of books sold, and she's here to give us a little sneak peek into her life's work and what you can do to better live your best life.

[1:00] Robert Bannon: Dr. Judith Orloff is here. Welcome to the show.

[1:03] Dr. Judith Orloff: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

[1:06] Dr. Judith Orloff: I'm excited to be.

[1:07] Robert Bannon: You are another one that does not like to sleep.

[1:10] Dr. Judith Orloff: I have written a lot of books.

[1:12] Dr. Judith Orloff: I have.

[1:13] Dr. Judith Orloff: But I do love to sleep.

[1:16] Robert Bannon: That's that is a wonderful, wonderful balance, I'm sure of that.

[1:21] Robert Bannon: So when did this life's work start? How do you describe what you do?

[1:25] Dr. Judith Orloff: I'm a psychiatrist in Los Angeles. I have a private practice, and I'm also an empath.

[1:31] Dr. Judith Orloff: An empath is somebody who is sensitive and intuitive and caring, but tends to absorb the emotional stress of others and the world into our bodies.

[1:44] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so I wrote, you know, the book, The Genius of Empathy, to help people learn how to be an empath without taking on the angst of anyone else, without getting overly involved in other people's problems.

[2:00] Robert Bannon: I'm a little guilty, Doctor. I'm I can't help it.

[2:04] Robert Bannon: But with your tools and with the work you've done, there is a way you can manage it and be that great empathetic empath, but also take care of yourself.

[2:13] Dr. Judith Orloff: Absolutely. You have to because we need empaths now.

[2:16] Dr. Judith Orloff: And the children's book that I just wrote, The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, it's about children.

[2:22] Dr. Judith Orloff: You, I know, me too. I'm the highly sensitive rabbit.

[2:25] Dr. Judith Orloff: And people are writing me, you know, their children are the highly sensitive rabbit.

[2:28] Dr. Judith Orloff: And her name is Aurora. She's the heroine of the book.

[2:32] Dr. Judith Orloff: And it's about how sensitive children are often shamed for their abilities and they're not supported.

[2:39] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so how Aurora, you know, was shamed by her family and how she emerged with tools to be a healthy empath, you know, such as taking a breath when something upsets you, as opposed to freezing, which holds all the energy in there, you know, or setting a boundary, you know, or talking to a like-minded soul, you know, rather than someone who's going to criticize you or make fun of you.

[3:06] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so this is a story about how highly sensitive rabbits and children and adults can be empowered.

[3:13] Robert Bannon: I love that so much. And we need to be honoring these kids and these gifts as a school teacher who runs an English department.

[3:21] Robert Bannon: Very often we tell people to toughen up and to not be so emotional and to not be so sensitive.

[3:27] Robert Bannon: And well, the world needs a little bit more emotion and sensitivity in it.

[3:31] Robert Bannon: We all are having our own battles, and some of us are very attuned to that.

[3:34] Robert Bannon: It's not a bad thing.

[3:36] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's no, it's a gift.

[3:38] Dr. Judith Orloff: And our world needs this.

[3:40] Dr. Judith Orloff: I wrote the children's book now because the children could be the stewards of the planet.

[3:45] Dr. Judith Orloff: You know, they're gonna come into power, they're gonna be the ones, you know, we're gonna go off stage a bit, and they're gonna come in and they need to have tools.

[3:53] Dr. Judith Orloff: They need to learn how to be a happy, healthy empath so they can be strong and stick up for themselves and the earth.

[4:01] Dr. Judith Orloff: They have one thing about empaths is they have a deep feeling about the earth and nature.

[4:05] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so we need our next generation to take care of this earth in differently than ours has been doing.

[4:14] Robert Bannon: For sure. I couldn't have said it better while we're talking, everyone.

[4:17] Robert Bannon: You could go to Dr. Judith Orloff.com or you can follow her on social media.

[4:20] Robert Bannon: The books are available wherever books are sold.

[4:23] Robert Bannon: The links are all on your website. You can go to Amazon and have them at your doorstep within the next two days.

[4:29] Robert Bannon: You have written books for adults. We talked a little bit about The Genius of Empathy, and you also have other books like Thrive as an Empath and also The Empath's Survival Guide.

[4:40] Robert Bannon: Why is it so hard if you have the gift to be an empath to survive in this crazy world that we live in?

[4:47] Dr. Judith Orloff: Because it's a crazy stressful world.

[4:50] Dr. Judith Orloff: And if you're open and you're a caring person and you're a sponge, it all just comes in, unless you learn strategies how to keep it out.

[4:59] Dr. Judith Orloff: You don't want the pain of the world coming into your body.

[5:02] Dr. Judith Orloff: And empaths often do that.

[5:04] Dr. Judith Orloff: They go to the market and they feel someone they don't even know, you know, they're going by someone and they oh, this person is suffering so much.

[5:11] Dr. Judith Orloff: No, and they take it on, and which is none of their business to take on.

[5:15] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's very important, and I say that lovingly, you know, to be not codependent, to be able to say, This is my path.

[5:23] Dr. Judith Orloff: I'm walking on my path. I don't have to absorb everyone else's pain, even though there's a part of me that wants to.

[5:30] Dr. Judith Orloff: Now, the thing is, I would love to heal everybody.

[5:32] Dr. Judith Orloff: I would love it, but it's not possible.

[5:35] Dr. Judith Orloff: It doesn't work that way.

[5:36] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so if you're an empath, you need to learn how to be in your own power and let other people be on their path.

[5:43] Dr. Judith Orloff: You can hold energy for them, you could hold space for them if you have a friend who's going through a hard time, but you can do it.

[5:49] Dr. Judith Orloff: You could put a bubble around you, a beautiful clear bubble that will protect you all the way, all the way around the body to visualize it, you know, so the energy doesn't come in.

[5:49] Dr. Judith Orloff: There are visualizations and techniques you can use so you don't allow that energy, and yet you're still caring.

[6:10] Dr. Judith Orloff: You're sitting there, you're caring, but you're not taking it on.

[6:13] Robert Bannon: I, you know, I spent a lot of time in therapy, Dr. Orloff.

[6:17] Robert Bannon: And in therapy, one of the I think my therapist has a beautiful beach house somewhere on my insurance money.

[6:24] Robert Bannon: Um, and one of the things I learned is that as a parent and as a human being, we don't want to avoid our children from going through struggles.

[6:31] Robert Bannon: We want to give them the tools to be able to get through them because we can't be with people all the time, and we can't save everybody all the time.

[6:38] Robert Bannon: We barely can save ourselves most of the time.

[6:41] Robert Bannon: So being intentional about your feelings and what you need does not make you a selfish, unhealthy person.

[6:48] Robert Bannon: It actually allows you to show up for the people that need you even more.

[6:52] Dr. Judith Orloff: Right.

[6:53] Dr. Judith Orloff: And it dispels the myth that sensitive people are weak.

[6:56] Dr. Judith Orloff: Because I think that's what's going on in our culture now that there's some people in power who are thinking, oh, sensitive people are weak.

[7:01] Dr. Judith Orloff: Empathy is the worst thing that ever happened.

[7:03] Dr. Judith Orloff: And it just isn't true, everybody.

[7:05] Dr. Judith Orloff: I hope you can see through that.

[7:07] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's the most beautiful thing you can do, but you need to be strong as well as empathic.

[7:13] Dr. Judith Orloff: You're not just empathic and open to everything.

[7:16] Dr. Judith Orloff: That's not a wise stance in this world.

[7:19] Dr. Judith Orloff: You're strong and empathic.

[7:21] Dr. Judith Orloff: You can be both.

[7:23] Robert Bannon: So when you have a child, as your new children's book, which we're talking about today called The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, what are the signs that you may have a sensitive, empathic child?

[7:36] Dr. Judith Orloff: Well, they might be very caring.

[7:38] Dr. Judith Orloff: They might care about other people, and try and help them, even the youngest, you know, kids will try and help them or try and you know be caring and love nature and love animals and be very sensitive, but they tend to get overwhelmed.

[7:55] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so though they might tantrum or they might, you know, start crying, and you won't know why.

[8:00] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so it's important to learn how to set the limits with them and put them in a room that's quiet, turn down the stimulation, you know, let them come back down to themselves, don't just keep over-stimulating them.

[8:14] Dr. Judith Orloff: And they don't like a lot of play dates in a row, you know.

[8:18] Dr. Judith Orloff: Sensitive children, you know, love maybe one friend at a time, and then a break and for their animals.

[8:25] Dr. Judith Orloff: So it's a different vibe.

[8:27] Dr. Judith Orloff: I'm an empath, and so I don't respond to being around a lot of people at once, you know.

[8:33] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's just not my choice.

[8:35] Dr. Judith Orloff: I would rather be around one or two people at once.

[8:38] Dr. Judith Orloff: And if your child is that way, it's perfectly normal.

[8:41] Dr. Judith Orloff: Don't worry if they're not gonna have friends, you know.

[8:44] Dr. Judith Orloff: Just give them the one or two people and know that that makes them happy.

[8:48] Robert Bannon: I think that a lot of times students in my classes and in schools having conversations with parents and even some of my friends' children, they're very misunderstood if they have a lot of empathic symptoms.

[8:48] Robert Bannon: They look at it like what is wrong with them they they're antisocial they're too emotional they cry they're they're upset they don't they communicate differently than the other kids we need to recognize that not all you know not what's not one size fits all for everybody right it's not and you can help your children sometimes sensitive children are bullied in school and the bullies just pick them out you know because they're sensitive like they'll say oh you're a crybaby no oh you're so weak look at that and then they'll get their friends to laugh at them and if that happens if you're a parent and that happens you have to summon the powers that be in gather together and deal with the bullying you know you must be an advocate of the child you can't just let it go on it's not up to the child to do something at that point it's so system.

[9:50] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's so funny because I have a good friend of mine who has a son who is very empathic and sensitive and he the kids are rough around him and he just quietly walks away and he doesn't confront them he doesn't argue with them he doesn't want to fight back he just separates himself and it's been so interesting to see his mother who is much more aggressive be like I want him no he's not that kind of he's not that kind of kid not all of us are have that they have a different set of powers that they will use for good.

[10:23] Dr. Judith Orloff: That's right a different set of powers and you know people who are empathic tend to go into the arts or the healing profession where they want to be of service, they recognize the value of that.

[10:35] Dr. Judith Orloff: And you know, they probably won't go into a high stress executive job, you know, unless they're moved to do it, unless it's their destiny to do it.

[10:45] Dr. Judith Orloff: But you know they just go for different things.

[10:48] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so it's important to nurture the sensitivity within you.

[10:52] Dr. Judith Orloff: And that often comes from the inner child.

[10:54] Dr. Judith Orloff: You know, part of embracing your sensitive self is to go back and find your inner child if he or she was abused you know if they're stuck in some house somewhere where you left them the last time you saw them so you could reclaim them and and have the inner child as part of your life and to take care of it now.

[11:13] Dr. Judith Orloff: Absolutely. I had to do a lot of work on my own childhood. If you have a childhood where you've dealt with anything that's been difficult, like abandonment or maybe not the most cared environments, I feel—and you can tell me if I'm wrong—you sometimes become the opposite. You overcare, you overtry to take care of, you overlove, you over-sensitivity to people's needs, and then you sometimes can swing the pendulum all the way to the other side and not take care of yourself.

[11:44] Dr. Judith Orloff: Absolutely. And there's a whole chapter in "The Genius of Empathy" on overgiving and how not to be an overgiver because that's one thing empaths do. They just give and give and give, and they might suffer poor health because of it. You know, it might turn against them in not a healthy way of giving. You have to have a balanced way of giving. And it's interesting because people think, "Oh, giving is so wonderful," but it isn't. If you give too much, it can just sap the life right out of you. So you have to know when to say, "I'm not available tonight. You know, I've got to rest. I'm so sorry. I know you're disappointed." And empaths don't like to disappoint anybody. They just can't stand it. But it's part of maturity to know that at times you will have to disappoint people. You know, I hate to tell you that, but you can do it in the nicest, loving way.

[12:33] Dr. Judith Orloff: One of my homework assignments when I was trying to work on myself after giving too much time in relationships and really not taking care of myself—I was a hundred pounds heavier than I am now. I didn't even have someone who would cut my own hair. I just didn't think anything I did mattered. I wanted to give as much as I could to somebody else. And my mom would always say, "Don't lose who you are. Take care of yourself." And my therapist said, "It's Christmas," and she said, "Instead of going out and buying gifts for others, buy yourself something." And I couldn't tell you, doctor, how hard it was to take out my money and treat myself. But I would easily give whatever I could to somebody else. That's—we have to learn to take care of ourselves and make sure that we are of value more so than really anyone else because we can't take care of anyone else if we don't take care of ourselves.

[13:23] Dr. Judith Orloff: Yeah, self-care is critical to being an empath. You have to learn how to give to yourself. You have to learn how to take that bath and just lie in the tub and not think about problems. You know, just allow yourself to relax and not become overly serious. Many empaths are overly serious; they take everything seriously. So the body gets very tense, and the stress hormones go up, and so it's not a healthy thing. It's okay to take certain things seriously, but what I'm talking about is the balance. You know, in "The Genius of Empathy," it's a balance, and in "The Highly Sensitive Rabbit" for the children, it's the balance—finding the balance, finding happiness, and learning how to set boundaries at the same time.

[14:06] Dr. Judith Orloff: Boundaries are key. Learning how to say no at times—not always, but when you need to—you have to learn how to say no. And this is hard for empaths. Some of my patients, I help them to say no in the session, and sometimes in the beginning, they can't even get it out. You know, trying to say no. And it's so hard because they had difficult childhoods where they weren't supported in saying no or they were abused for saying no. And it's important to begin to heal, you know, the wounded part of oneself to be able to be an advocate for yourself. That's important—to say no, to say, "That doesn't work for me. I'm so sorry, it doesn't work for me."

[14:51] Robert Bannon: I love that. Right now on Amazon, everybody, they're bundling—I don't even know if you know this—but all three of the books are bundled right now that you can grab all three of them, the whole collection, shipped to your house in two days. It's less than $40 to get all three books. You can give this to somebody you love, read the adult books, read the one for your children to your children, and you could have the whole Dr. Orloff collection right to your mailbox. It's pretty great.

[15:16] Robert Bannon: So, what are the boundaries for me? I have a friend of mine, another friend, who watches the news and cries and takes on all of the world's anguish. And what I worry about for her—I have strict rules, Dr. Orloff. I check the news once a day. I can't get wrapped up into some of the drama that's out here in the world. We can very easily get caught up as empaths into the world and other people's problems that we neglect ourselves. So we need to have boundaries so that we can protect ourselves. What are some that you would do or you recommend for people?

[15:50] Dr. Judith Orloff: Well, I'm very big on boundaries. One very strict boundary I have is around anger, you know, where I don't allow somebody to dump anger in my vicinity. If somebody is angry and they just want to dump it out, that's not appropriate. And so, you know, it doesn't happen very often. I guess it used to happen more, so I had that strong boundary, but it's just saying, "This is not working for me. You know, let's reconvene when you're calmer." And either I leave or they leave. I don't sit there and take it. And so for those of you who sit there and take it, I would consider reevaluating that and being able—and it's harder when someone is, you know, they're so angry and you want to say, "You know, that's not working for me."

[16:36] Dr. Judith Orloff: And so you have to be able to do that to protect yourself in the world. Or if you're, let's say, at a conference or a party and you meet someone who's a chronic talker and they corner you and they just talk, talk, talk, and you wonder how you're going to get out of there and you don't know what to say or do. And the thing is, you have to interrupt them, and it's so hard, you know, and especially in the beginning. Interrupt and say, "Hey, you know, I'm sorry, I've got to go over and talk to this person now. Um, I'll see you later." But you say it nicely. When you set a boundary, the tone of your voice needs to be very nice. And but you're making a point; you're saying, "I've got to go." You know, you're not punishing them; you're not saying, "I can't believe how much you're talking." You just say, "I've got to go." And you don't want to do that. You want to just ease yourself—do use the "then" approach—ease yourself out of those situations.

[17:27] Robert Bannon: Why are people afraid to say their needs or to create a boundary? Is it about confrontation? Is it about disappointment?

[17:36] Dr. Judith Orloff: It's about all of that, and it's about social rules. We're not taught to interrupt others. You know, we're not taught that it's okay if someone goes on and on that we have a say here. We don't have to stay there for two hours and listen to be polite. You know, I mean, I'm all for being polite, but you also have to protect yourself if your energy is being sapped, you know, and you're feeling it. And if you stay there anyways, you have to talk to yourself and say, "This is gonna be very hard to interrupt them." You have to have inner dialogue, but you've got to do it. So you've got to be your own cheering section inside to give yourself a little bit of courage. And I can guarantee you it works.

They might be a little, "Oh my God," you know, and have a reaction, but you know, that's all right. And you could tell your good friends, you know, "This is something I'm working on. This is like a new skill I really want to master." And so, you know, if you experience it, you know, I just want to tell you this is what I'm doing, you know, to help myself, and you can help me. So you can enlist their help with this, you know, and that's important. And even, you know, with children to set a boundary in "The Highly Sensitive Rabbit," you know, to say, "I need to be by myself now. I need to go off and look at the moon," which is what Aurora, a highly sensitive rabbit, likes to do—just look up at the moon by herself. And so she was able to say to her friends, "No, I—you know, it's nice you want to come with me, but I'm gonna this time do it on my own."

[19:10] Robert Bannon: I love that. I love what this book is teaching our youth, and I love what all of your other books are teaching the grown folks out here. And listen, in a very Jersey, uncouth way that Dr. Orloff just said, they'll get over it, people. Tell them you need to move on. They'll be okay. It will be—you will live, and they will too. And it took me 42 years of my life to be able to say that out loud, and the journey still continues for me as well.

[19:35] Dr. Judith Orloff: Yeah, so you'll be surprised at what people can take. And people usually are concerned about themselves. That's what they're thinking about most of the time. They're not thinking about you too much. My mom used to say that to me growing up: "They're not all staring at you; they have—they're worrying about themselves." But that will give you, you know, more courage to just say, "You know, I really, you know, this is amazing, but I've got to go." But you want to frame it in a way where you say a positive first, then you say what the boundary is, and then you say another positive. It's called the sandwich approach, where you just say, "You know, I love you; you're my friend, but I've got to get off the phone now.

You know, thanks for understanding." So quick—you want to be quick. Most empaths are not quick; they get into these long confrontations, which isn't the right way to go. You want to be quick—maybe 15 seconds, maybe 10 seconds—but a smile in your eye, and your tone of voice is good. Then you just go for 15 seconds. That's it.

[20:36] Robert Bannon: I love it. Well, Dr. Orloff, I love this book. I love "The Highly Sensitive Rabbit." I'm gonna let you go now, and I'm so grateful that you spent some time with us here today.

[20:49] Dr. Judith Orloff: Oh, you're very welcome. It was a pleasure. So look, the books are out, everyone. "The Genius of Empathy," with hundreds of thousands of copies sold, is available. It is in, I don't know, umpteenth printing of the book. It's available; you can get it right now. Other books like "Thriving as an Empath," "The Empath Survival Guide," and now "The Highly Sensitive Rabbit" for all—look at these beautiful illustrations. Good shout out to this incredible work, and this book is available to the young ones and old ones and everyone who needs to be reminded of who they are and that it's okay.

[21:22] Dr. Judith Orloff: Thank you so much for being here.

[21:23] Robert Bannon: You're so welcome. Happy New Year, and I wish you much love. And when I need a little oomph, I'm gonna reach out and say, "Doctor, help me keep my boundaries strong," Dr. Orloff.

[21:34] Dr. Judith Orloff: Excellent. Appreciate you. Much love. Thank you so much for being here.

[21:41] Robert Bannon: You're welcome.