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[0:05] Robert Bannon: Are you ready? It's the Roundtable with me, Robert Bannon. Glory Days. Oh, passing by Glory Days. You know that song? Do you remember that song? Well, it's another edition. That has nothing to do with today's interview, by the way. Except for the fact that the show is called Glory Days. Today's interview is definitely gonna be a fun one if you enjoy the blur the glory the glory days of it all. You know, aren't these all the glory days, folks? Well, welcome to the Roundtable. I'm Robert Bannon. You're watching us on the Broadway Podcast Network. Or I should say listening. You know, I'm still learning what a podcast really is. Isn't it weird that I have a podcast and I don't know what a podcast is?

Tell me, what's your favorite podcast if you're listening, besides this one? Because I know I hope you've downloaded us on the Broadway Podcast Network and you're watching us every single day. So some shows have become folklores, some shows have become iconic, and they did not have to have the world's longest run. So we're gonna talk about the Keen Company and a one night only benefit concert of a cult favorite with the writers here tonight on the Roundtable. You ready to have some fun? Who's ready to have some fun? Whoop whoop whoop whoop. Well, I so appreciate you being here. It means a lot. And uh let's get this show started. So Glory Days has been performed in over 50 countries. It has been literally performed all around the world, including on Broadway.

And now you can use your money and your resources and head on down to New York. And next week you can see it done as a benefit for the Keen Company. And they have a cast, y'all. There's a cast, a cast of singers, Broadway stars, some of our friends here, like George Salazar and Colton Ryan, and Jordan Dobson, and a whole bunch of really amazing performers. The people who brought this cult classic, literally brought this cult classic to life, are here, and they have the most fascinating story and have done so much amazing work. So Nick and James, welcome to the show.

[2:18] Nick Blaemire: Thanks, Robert.

[2:19] James Gardiner: Thank you for having us.

[2:20] Robert Bannon: Oh, I'm so excited. I want people before we get started, I want people to just know that Glory Days, it's one night only, Monday, this Monday, February 12th at 7 o'clock. So there's not that many tickets left. Y'all are just selling them, selling them out. Go to Keencompany.org slash glory days so you can grab your tickets. Uh well, uh as as literal children. Um we did uh like after school performing stuff together when we were like 15. Um and it was a fancy uh show choir type situation.

[2:45] Nick Blaemire: Totally.

[2:57] James Gardiner: But that had a uh a really stacked group. It was crazy. We were surrounded by insane talent for both from from Maryland and Atu Blankson Wood, who's about to play Cliff and um Cabaret played Hamlet this summer. Um he was he was uh coming up at the same time. Ryan Watkinson, who's done five Broadway shows, uh Brian Spotolnik, who was on Broadway. It's like a something was like really brewing in that group of people at that moment. Um, and so there was a real kind of excitement about like where musical theater was going uh that we got caught up in for sure.

[3:34] Nick Blaemire: And Nick and I really yeah, Nick and I really hit it off pretty early on because I think we had very similar tastes in movies and and in musicals and in plays and you know we became very intrigued by what was considered a musical versus what wasn't.

[3:53] James Gardiner: And uh we we I think from a young age we're very interested in sort of messing with the form. What we love I love that very much Nick and James you so you you get together you you have this and you're you're you start to write James was writing always something that you wrote the book for for this show in particular but was writing always the goal was it were you always the writer?

[4:01] James Gardiner: No not for me at all I I was a uh an actor first and foremost and uh this you know Glory Days was really Nick's idea you know it came to him after his freshman year of college and it was an experience that actually had happened with his friends and he started writing it and we were hanging out a lot that summer just because we're good friends and he was showing me stuff and and I don't know who suggested the idea of of me helping write the book at the time but um that's sort of what pulled me into into writing.

[4:56] James Gardiner: So no, it was not something that I had really explored prior to that.

[5:00] Nick Blaemire: But Nick, it was something that I had been doing before that in high school. I know that I had written something like a one-man musical in high school, and um, so yeah, it was definitely Nick's baby at the beginning, but as it progressed and went on, it became something that both of us very much had our hands in.

[5:20] Nick Blaemire: I I don't think it would have happened without James because I I just was like really flailing in the dark on like I know how to I knew how to write a pop song then. Um, but really contextualizing songs, it's actually because like it's the hardest part of writing a musical is just why does the song start, what happens in it, how does it push the story forward? And especially for us wanting to, as James said, kind of push the form. It's like, how can you do that in a pop idiom without being uber specific about and literal?

[5:54] James Gardiner: Um, and uh, and yeah, I mean, as James mentioned, uh we have similar tastes, but I think in a lot of ways I admired James's taste uh as it it reaches beyond stuff that I knew. Um, and uh, and so it was like, okay, well, let's talk about our town. Let's talk about suburbia, not just as like plays we've seen, but like what are they doing on a functional level that is innovative or innovative for their time and has stood the test of time, those those examples. The Fantastics was also something we talked a lot about.

[6:25] Nick Blaemire: Um, because it's just like one of the things, aside from you know, the way musical theater is written, it feels like there's a barrier to entry for a lot of uh a lot of people to produce musical theater because the sets are big and the casts are big and the budgets are impossible. And that just felt like so elitist in a way.

[6:47] James Gardiner: And it's like, okay, well, let's make something that we could actually put up with a just a band in a bench. Um, and then maybe our friends, their colleges could do it. And and that became this this sort of dictating principle that kept the show uh a really manageable uh scope. And this idea of like, have we seen a show that takes place in real time over one night? I mean, maybe as a play, but as a musical, maybe not. And so it became really exciting this idea of like indie pop musical theater.

[7:17] Nick Blaemire: Which I'm if I may say so, it's you guys are very ahead of your time. I mean, in 2008, uh, when this show comes out on Broadway, it's new and unique and what is this? But now it is the trend, like you have started, we're a part of the people who at the forefront of this trend of creating the modern musical, which is what you guys had done. Nick, this idea about you know, the a year after high school and the bullying and the what happened, the trauma of our high school experiences and friendships coming back together, just as relevant, maybe more relevant and spoken about in 2024 than as it was back then.

[7:52] James Gardiner: Is this story based on true events?

[7:54] Nick Blaemire: Oh, yeah, as James said, yeah, it it very much is. And I think uh, you know, it's it's the interesting thing about I would suggest anybody who has an idea in high school or college uh and is scared about you know finishing it, finish it and do it because no matter how it goes then, it's gonna be contextualized by time in a really um exciting way, almost almost um a guarantee because as you age, you you are able to look back on your work and and see what you kind of accidentally bottled about that uh experience.

[8:35] James Gardiner: And and so for me, I was writing about a thing that happened.

[8:39] Nick Blaemire: Um, and we dramatized that, you know, a little bit, but it we just had rehearsal for our uh for the um the keen benefit coming up, Symphony Space on Monday, and and it was just fascinating to hear the words, you know, from a uh a 40-year old uh set of ears, uh, because it was like, oh yeah, like this is we at the time we didn't necessarily know we were writing this, but there's there's just something in there about you know the way men treat each other that can be quite toxic and the sort of um the sort of aspiration of maleness that we all get taught to value, uh, that I think in a lot of ways my friendship with James has really reframed.

[9:25] James Gardiner: And I think that was something we were both after is like, okay, so we are men, but like I don't I don't like love sports. I don't love like the bravado that you're sort of told as a man you need to have to like take on the world. I I we're both kind of like you know, sappy guys.

[9:43] Nick Blaemire: And so I I think to to sort of balance a show where like the villain is that that uh toxicity of maleness was something that you know was on our minds, and as you said, like was a product of being bullied in middle school, where a lot of theater people, you know, find their drive from that like I'll show them thing. And that's like very much what the show's about, but then that gets deconstructed and and sort of tested in a way, and the show in some ways is like smarter than we were in writing it.

[10:15] James Gardiner: It just kind of caught something that now has been bottled and and done, as you said, all over the world. And that's this like real honor of like, oh yeah, you know, we we have a personal connection with the people who who did it because they saw a similar thing in themselves that we saw in ourselves.

[10:33] Robert Bannon: Well, and it's universal, and that's why it's literally been done, like you said, literally all around the world. James, you have both of you have other credits, other things that you you run at theater company down there in DC. You know, you are uh you you've done other works and you've written and you and all of this stuff that work around the world.

[10:53] Nick Blaemire: Nick has other, you know, out of a hundred million other different musicals that he's written with some D Watts and Ethan Slater and all sorts of fancy dancy Broadway stars, like Nick is as well.

[11:03] James Gardiner: But the show keeps coming back, but Glory Days keeps cycling back.

[11:08] Robert Bannon: So what is that like that after you know 15 plus years uh of since this show's New York moment, that this show still lives and still resonates with so many people?

[11:18] James Gardiner: I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing that it keeps sort of coming back. Just when you think like, oh, I think maybe people have moved on from this show now. There's always there's something that you know, like during uh uh COVID, it had a ja uh its second Japanese production, this huge production over there that you know we got to see because it was streamed um on Bro A HD, right? Am I making that up?

[11:42] Nick Blaemire: Yeah.

[11:43] James Gardiner: Um but it's just it's it's wild. You know, and the interesting thing is like right after the show closed in New York, we were approached by some companies to dive back into it and to reexamine it and to uh you know give it another go. And I think Nick and I at the time rightly were kind of like, nah, you know what? Like let's let's give this some distance and let's let it breathe before we ever try to go back into it. Um and I think also having that distance now of allowing ourselves to come back to it now at the age that we're at now. Um, I think when I wrote it, I would have gone, oh well, if I wrote it at the age of 39 or 40, things would change, things would be different. And looking at it now, there's not much that I want to change because it's very honest and truthful to who we were at that age. I mean, we started writing a show about 18 year olds when we were 18 years old.

[12:46] Nick Blaemire: Yeah.

[12:48] James Gardiner: Yeah. It's a fascinating thing because I mean, it you what is good writing, you know, like as you learn, as you learn more about the rules of writing, they actually they even though they they'd open up a lot of opportunities of like, okay, now I can write something with a trustworthy structure that's gonna do the things that you expect of a story, you're also kind of corroding that youthful instinct to try something new, even if you don't know if it'll work or not. And I I definitely feel the pressure of prevailing wisdom as I get older and trying to kind of continue to fight against the instinct to do it like everybody else is doing it. Um, and so to have like a sort of a piece that reminds us of that um in all of its imperfections is just so fascinating that like what art actually is is this you know, ex this messy expression. And like the more perfect it is, you know, it might it might be um more commercial or saleable or whatever, but you do lose something when you start like picking at it.

[14:03] Nick Blaemire: Right. And so we've been trying to be really careful about that.

[14:07] Robert Bannon: I'm excited. So, so how, Nick, how did this, what do we expect on Monday?

[14:12] Nick Blaemire: We have an all-star cast. My God. It's it's like an embarrassment of Richards. Because first of all, let's start with Keen Company, because I had known about Keen when they did Marry Me a Little with Jason Tan and Laura Molina. And I was like, oh, that's cool that they're taking that show and really like looking at it as a piece and not not trying to like do a sort of Sondheim legacy project, which I feel I remember reading um, you know, interviews with Sondheim saying, like when he was like 75, I feel like I'm already dead because everyone keeps honoring me, you know. And I thought, oh, well, Keen's not really doing that. They're like really doing the play as as if it's a play and not a tribute piece.

Um, and so when I got the offer to do Tick Tick Boom there in 2016, I could feel that same energy that it wasn't like, let's do this because it'll be trendy and sell out. It was like, well, Nick, you're a composer. Like, how many composers have we seen play this part? Lynn had just done it at um uh City Center. And I think that was an interesting idea of like, okay, well, what if you know Raul when he did it at um off Broadway or Esparza did it in 2001, he didn't play the piano very much. And it was it was like, okay, well, here's an actor playing Jonathan Larson, but like just the fact that they thought of me for the show was like, oh, that's interesting. Like you're trying something. Um and I fell in love with Jonathan Silverstein.

I think he's one of the best directors in New York, and he's the artistic director of Keen as well. So there's this like macro vision that he's able to really um curate. And so when he came to us with this, it was like, ah, yeah, we're we're gonna get to really look at this as a play with actors rather than you know what I think like we've had a lot of really wonderful nights in our lives because of the show, including like the record release for the album back in 2009. That was like kind of a reunion concert night. Like we had everyone who's ever done the show there, and it was like 25 actors, and it was totally emotional and cathartic and um glad we did it. But like to do reunion concerts for the rest of the life of this show would sort of be saying that the show doesn't have any value on its own.

Um, and I think what's just so heartening, and we needed Johnny to say it was like, oh no, no, no. There's something in here that that time has done to it, where now it's a period piece, and now we're looking at it through the lens of 2024, which as you said, Robert, is a very different time than pre-recession 2008. Um, for maleness, for the world, for the whole for music for the whole thing for the state of musical theater. So to be coming back to it now, it is exciting with Keen and then on top to the icing of having these remarkable actors. You mentioned George and Jordan and Colton and Derek Klena, who are just like incredible artists and people who have time and time again shown uh a deep exploration of the stuff that they work on.

And this first rehearsal that we had, which was just so fast and furious, they came in with with so much uh of their own lives and their own artistry that woke up the text in this way that I I kind of couldn't believe as it was happening. It just felt like we'd been rehearsing for three weeks.

[17:42] Robert Bannon: Woo! Well, I it's gonna be a um a magical night. If you see Nick, you know, you may have seen Nick on on your television screens this past award season in some films and projects and work and all of that fun stuff. And uh James, you are coming up from the DC area.

[18:00] James Gardiner: Yes, you're gonna come up, you're gonna get blown away by this group of people.

[18:04] Robert Bannon: Uh-huh.

[18:05] James Gardiner: Uh-huh. And then you're a big old party Monday night.

[18:09] James Gardiner: That's right. And uh, of course, like you said, Keen Company, the money raised uh at this event goes to providing art. They are in the five boroughs of New York, and art is such an underfunded thing for all the kids in education that there's all these musical theater brilliant minds that are the next generation of writers that are in New York City and performers, and the money that you use will be able to be put towards programming so that they can be able to write like they wrote when they were youngsters, and then their work will be in Japan and any and all South America and Europe and all around the world.

[18:39] Nick Blaemire: Literally. That's the that's the dream, man. Is like, you know, it it really does feel like we're standing on the shoulders of the people who were coming up when we were in high school. And like, isn't that what you do? You you craft your entire aesthetic around like the music you listen to in high school. You can't escape it for the rest of your life. And so to now be doing a show where younger people are gonna come see it and hopefully have a reaction that makes them want to go make art, you know, whether they like it or not. Like it doesn't actually matter. I think half the half the things that I um am driven by are like, oh, I loved that show, or like Marily, we roll along. The fact that Maryland's on Broadway right now in this kind of definitive production is so wild, uh, I would imagine to James too and and I, because we grew up thinking like no one's ever gonna try to like, you know, really investigate this work.

It's like an unbelievable piece of writing. And then over the years they have. And it's it's a special kind of musical theater, the ones that really, you know, take a stab at something that might not be easily repeatable. Um, and really dependent on the chemistry of the artists involved, and Marile shows that, and not that we're comparing Glory Days to Marile, but like we're inspired by that show. And the fact that it didn't do well, you know, it's that hilarious thing of the stuff that flops when it comes out, and then you know, it just sort of creates its own cult status over time. That's a really a big honor to be a part of that kind of that kind of work.

[20:12] Robert Bannon: Well, that's what I love about it, and your perseverance and that the show is still being done 20 plus years later all around the world, and that it you're still you you never give up, you keep writing, you keep working, and and uh uh uh and I know what you all have must have been through through those days. And now look, all these years later, it's like everything comes full circle and is is back at it again. There'll be a sold-out house on Monday night. There's like four tickets left, so you better grab a seat while you can. Go to Keen Company.org backslash glory days. You could grab your tickets. It's gonna be a great night, and you'll see some of your favorite Broadway stars. They'll be there hiding around. So make sure you say hey. And uh, we're so excited and grateful that you spent some time with us today. Thank you so much for being here. Congratulations.

[20:48] Nick Blaemire: Oh, thanks for thank you, Robert.

[20:51] Robert Bannon: There you have it. My whole album's called Unfinished Business because you don't give up. Never ever, never ever give up, never ever, ever. And uh this show's never gonna give up. We're gonna keep going for 500 million more episodes. So don't go anywhere. Follow me at Robert M. Bannon, go to RobertBannon.com, listen to us on the Broadway Podcast Network every single day. Because I have no life, and I just love to talk to artists about art. And I appreciate you all for being here. Uh till next time, remember that the best. Hey, we just learned about it tonight. The best surely is yet to come. Until next time. Bye everybody. Thanks for being here.