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[0:00] S. Asher Gelman: I immediately was fascinated. I hadn't read anything, especially in the theater world, that had really tackled a lot of these questions. So I was just super excited and then auditioned and got to meet Asher and really loved his approach and thought he had really smart things to say, both about technology and about just playwriting in general. And also I think because Asher is such a multi-hyphen, I feel like we share a lot of the same cloth where we're like, I want to do it all. I'm interested in all different aspects of how to create work in this industry, and he's incredibly collaborative. It has honestly just been a really exciting process, and I think asking really exciting important questions for the theater world right now.

[0:52] S. Asher Gelman: It's as topical as can be. I mean, you can't turn on the news or watch a press conference with the president of the United States to my father's obsession with CNBC and what is AI going to do, and you know, his newest get rich quick scam and which company is gonna come in and be the leader. You know, it's on the minds of so many people. AI was a part of the SAG strike, the main thing that was a part of the SAG strike. It's a big part of the entertainment industry, all industry. How did this idea come to you? And how do you describe the show?

[1:22] S. Asher Gelman: So the idea came to me sort of in two parts. I got really into virtual reality fitness in the pandemic and then started to develop a parasocial relationship with my favorite trainer. I was very I understood very much like what that relationship was. I understood that like, okay, like she's my friend, but I'm her stranger. I understood that. And then about a year in, her husband died in a car accident. And suddenly I was left with like all these really complicated and complex feelings. I felt really connected to her grief and her loss. Even though I knew that I didn't know this woman, she wasn't actually a friend of mine. But like there was a part of me that wanted to reach out and help, even though I knew that nothing I could say or do was going to help her. And so that ultimately got me thinking about again, these one-sided relationships that we have over social media, and how we are sometimes very connected to people who have no idea who we are.

[2:31] S. Asher Gelman: And then there was this article about this influencer who had licensed basically an AI version of herself to be a chatbot for like seven bucks an hour. And so people were just like chatting with the AI version of her. And I was kind of like, oh, like how can I like these two ideas feel like they are somehow layered on top of each other? And that is how "Scarlett Dreams" became a play. It explores all of these issues; it explores AI, it explores parasocial relationships, it explores virtual reality and augmented reality, the idea of simulations, the idea that we are all, you know, because of our own very personalized view of the world, we actually are all living in our own bespoke simulation.

[3:29] S. Asher Gelman: That like, you know, we are in control of like what we let in and what we keep out, right? And we do it, you know, simply based on the algorithm, but also simply based on our blocks, right? Like we don't like something, something doesn't something gives us a sad or gives us a mad, right? We just block, and then that thing or person disappears entirely, you know, from our simulation. In fact, the truth of the matter is actually when it comes to simulations, the only entity that would not be living in a simulation today would actually be AI, because AI has all the data. It's not trying to craft and adhere to a narrative, it just knows everything, and that's it. It's really simple.

[4:11] S. Asher Gelman: It's simple, but it's kind of scary.

[4:14] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: Well, to me, it's fascinating and amazing, and will make things great and make things terrible, and like why is it scary to you?

[4:24] S. Asher Gelman: Well, I'm scared because I feel like I think we perceive it to be like this gigantic robot that's gonna take over our jobs and take over the world. But I know that AI is used in so many more ways than my little brain can even fathom, that it's been a part of our society we don't even know. Consider that your fear of AI is based on what humans would do with that kind of power.

[4:49] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: Oh, interesting. Interesting point, Asher.

[4:52] S. Asher Gelman: Well, I would rather a robot than most humans I've met.

[4:57] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: That is probably absolutely true. Almost every problem that humanity has ever had to face has been caused by humans.

[4:59] S. Asher Gelman: Agreed, agreed. Andrew, how do you have a relationship with social media, and you have a relationship with people who are fans of yours that watch you, your shows, come to see, you know, will meet you and get tattoos of "Tuck Everlasting" on their arm and things like that? What how did you personally relate to this story and the relationships people have with social media and with public figures, etc., or non-real figures that are, you know, what I'm saying?

[5:36] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, absolutely. It is one of the things that really attracted me to it. I think a lot of times when social media is depicted in art, it just isn't accurate for the most part where I'm like that's like not really how it is like or this is like a gross oversimplification of it. And I was really attracted to the fact that of course, as I'm a creator who has had like tried to build up an audience and a following for almost two decades, and that there are people who have kind of followed me along the way and people who I have become friends with as well as like I am massively obsessed with some of the creators who I follow who either don't know me or they know me as like word names on each other's following list, but I do feel like I have real connections with them.

[6:31] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: And there are always these things that come up like as Asher said, like someone's husband dies and you feel attached to that grief even though it is not someone you know. But also what I love about Asher's play, I went in sort of expecting that this guy has an agenda he's gonna talk about how AI is destroying art and how all these relationships online are not real, and he does not have an axe to grind with it. I think it's really balanced. Different characters at different times during the play, I think, really defend this technology and defend these kind of relationships and the importance of it.

[7:13] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: And I don't think people are going to be leaving like in total doom and gloom about the state of our world. I think, like everything, it's incredibly complex and incredibly nuanced. And what feels terrifying for one person feels like innovation and connection for another. I think that's Asher, that means you wrote one hell of a play because that's what artists, you know, that's what we were here for. We want to be challenged and pushed and see things in different perspectives.

[7:43] S. Asher Gelman: Can you tell us what is the what can you say about the cast so far and the creative team so far in your rehearsal process? What has your experience been?

[7:50] S. Asher Gelman: They're terrible, and I really can't get the opportunity to replace them all. I mean, it is a really beautiful thing to be able to walk into a room and know that everyone in that room shares the same goal, which is just to make the best goddamn piece of art we can all make. Everybody is coming in, bringing their A game, bringing in all their ideas and their hopes, their dreams, their fears. This again, this piece is not something that is disconnected. This is something that is connected to us, it is happening to us right now. It is us commenting on and observing the world as it stands.

[8:36] S. Asher Gelman: Again, as Andrew said, like the play takes place tomorrow. Um, it is the technology in the play is you know, it is it is not you know science fiction in in that you know, in that we're like, oh, like it'll be it'll be decades or even centuries or even millennia until we get there. Like, no, like it's it'll be it'll be years. And for some of the technology in this play, months, if not weeks. Um and you know, how do we navigate this very specific moment in human history where we have started to develop technology that could replace us, and and all and and in many cases already has, but also like that's innovation, you know. Look at the industrial revolution, like all of those artisans, you know, all that that that developed their tools to like painstakingly make like these fine uh crafts, like all that's gone now because we have mass production.

Right. So like all of those, all those jobs got replaced, and ultimately, you know, it is about like whether like again asking the question like are like what is more important? Is it more important that people have these jobs, even if these jobs are no longer needed? You know, there's there's a conversation in the play about the coal miners, right? About how how like how there we have sustainable renewable energy solutions, and yet we're still fighting for the coal miners, right? Because we need because like we need those jobs, because people because people have those jobs, and rather than finding ways to repurpose those jobs or doing things that like we actually need, it's about the job, it's about capitalism, and and you know, and and there's always an adjustment period when it comes to innovation.

You know, I think like when it comes to the AI revolution, the the simplistic conversation is like, oh, we're going to be replaced by AI. But just like with any technology, it is, it's not going to be the humans versus AI. It's going to be the humans who have decided not to use AI versus the humans who have decided to integrate AI. You know, again, it's a tool just like every other tool, right? It's, you know, when computers came out, it's the people who decided to still use the typewriters that got left behind. You know, again, when we talk about artificial intelligence, that's spell check also. Like like that is artificial intelligence. Like there are many layers to artificial intelligence.

Like right now we're in this moment where like oh like I can talk to a computer and and that feels really innovative and exciting and and for a lot of people scary because again it's like what like what do we do now like like when there is something that can you know and again even computer even the word computer a computer used to be a human being who crunched numbers right there were these again like NASA had rooms full of mostly women who were just crunching numbers and they were called computers right then when we got actual like like physical like machine computers those became the computers because we didn't need those humans to be spending all of that time doing all of those mathematical calculations.

We didn't need that anymore. I mean remember I remember growing up every math teacher I ever had told me like well you're not going to be carrying around a calculator everywhere you go bullshit. Right we have them we have okay I look, I use AI. I use AI help to help me. See, Asher, I'm a fraud already. I'm your point. It helps edit videos, it helps uh create content and copy for for posting things. I mean, there's all sorts of tools that are out there now. So we have to change our mind, and your your show is gonna help us move and and change our mindset for sure. I think ultimately it's about right. Like, is AI going to replace going to replace jobs? Some jobs are going to be replaced, other jobs will be created.

Like, like again, it's it's it's just like every new technology, it's an adjustment period, right? Like, okay, like like now we have capabilities that we didn't have before. So now that we have those capabilities, how do we maximize those? Like, yes, there are going to be certain industries that are going to be much more affected than others, you know. Like, if like for mo for a lot of those jobs that are just people working at a computer doing computer things, those will become easier for those people because again, one person will be able to do the work of 20 using AI in ways that like we just don't have before. So again, it's a tool. Like, yes, there are terrifying possibilities, but there are terrifying possibilities when it comes to any technology. Ultimately, it's about the nuance about how we actually use it.

[13:40] Andrew Keenan-Bolger: Asher, I think that if I was your friend and we had talked every week on the phone, I wouldn't need my therapist anymore because you just make me feel less nervous about the whole world crumbling. Andrew, which is lovely. Andrew, what what um what is it? What do you feel like a couple days you're gonna be doing this in front of an audience? What what is the excitement like? How how do you feel about about them being in the house? Oh man, I'm honestly pretty nervous. I'm excited. Um, but this is especially for an off-Broadway show, it has a lot of technical aspects. It's a big production. There's a lot of like the play itself, there's a lot of technology. Um, and so we actually we start tech week tomorrow, and they're like wild special effects that I have just had in my head, and we finally start we get to see like what these things are and how we can uh creatively use a set.

Uh yeah, so I'm excited, but yeah, for sure I'm nervous. Also, it's a new new play. This is the first production. Um, and there always is like a bit of a learning curve as a performer who's doing that. We we can't go to a previous production and see how that played in front of an audience, so it has that really crackling kind of new play, exciting downtown theater energy about it.

[15:00] S. Asher Gelman: Well, it is going to be at the Greenwich House Theater. It is uh on 632 Broadway. It's gonna be April 3rd till May 26th for now. You can grab your tickets, you you can go to Scarlett Dreams, uh Scarlet Dreams Play.com and you can get them. You can follow Astro, you can follow Andrew. When it comes out, you can come and make your own. Comes. I I'm not gonna invite my Peloton friends in my head or the the the fitness instructor in the mirror, because my friends have that fitness mirror, and there's a man in the mirror, and you end up talking to the man in the mirror. Astra, this is brilliant. This is what this is I'm excited for to see the show. In in a in a previous draft, uh actually, Scarlet, um the app was in a mirror, so it was it was very fan of the opera, you know.

I love it. I can tell you my friend Kristen in Texas right now. She got that mirror and she talks to that man. Uh, it's good because you could you can get out your work out frustration to the mystery person in the mirror. Well, come see the everyone, come see the show, make up your own opinions, and then you know, download Asher will tell you we're okay. It's all gonna be all right.

[16:14] S. Asher Gelman: We might not be. Oh no. But but it's not necessarily like the the doom and gloom. Like there's there are again, there are a lot of really positive applications to this technology, and and I think ultimately what we just want to do is create a conversation around it. So come come see our show, um, and then have a have a long conversation afterwards about whether or not it is doom and gloom or if this is the utopia that we have all been dreaming of.

[16:43] Robert Bannon: Well, I'm excited. I can't wait to see it. You have an all-star cast and group with you. So uh Andrew, break all the legs. Asher, congratulations and break all the legs, have an amazing run, and everybody run on down and catch the show. Thank you so much for being here.

[16:56] S. Asher Gelman: Thank you so much.