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[0:12] Robert Bannon: It's the round table with me, Robert Bannon. Well, you know, here on the round table, we love celebrating pride. And through the years that we've done the show, for the past three years on Broadway World on the Broadway Podcast Network, our dream guest, my husband's dream guest, really, because he goes back to Noah's Ark with Wilson Cruz. Is it is uh it's to have Wilson Cruz here, and I am so honored and excited that we're gonna kick off this month with somebody who has been such an inspiration to me and this entire community. We are so proud and excited to be here with someone who blazed the trail that we all get to stand on his shoulders. Wilson Cruz, welcome to the round table.

[0:48] Wilson Cruz: Thank you so much. That was very sweet, very generous. I appreciate that. That that is the truth. Um congratulations. You have the number one movie on Netflix right now.

[0:59] Wilson Cruz: I do. Thank you. Um you got you got me. You got me even before I got on camera. So sorry. Thank you.

[1:06] Robert Bannon: Oh no, please. I last year I was at Tribeca Film Festival and you were you were there to see a film, and my cousin Adrian runs camera, and she ran across the street in New York City to get you. Because she goes back to uh, you know, my so-called life. We all grew up watching Wilson Cruz, and um, and we we are just so excited to be here. And I said to you when I was in Valley Village, I one day saw Wilson Cruz driving around, convertible top down, music blasting. I want to be Wilson Cruz. You are just lit. Come on, Wilson Cruz.

[1:41] Wilson Cruz: It must have been a sunny day in LA, unlike the the one we have here in New York today. But um, yes, I remember that vote that was very funny.

[1:50] Robert Bannon: Yes. When you look back now, what we're we're in pride, it's 2024. Uh we're we another year, another year where there's attacks on this community another year where there's unit you know unification and more visibility and more more examples of uh of the the community out there in the world but we're still in this fight we're still fighting so what's it feel like this year um you know it feels like I'm you know I I have to sit and think about how that feels because I've been so immersed in it that um to take a moment let me focus this um to take a moment and actually think about how it feels it feels like um you know whenever there's any progress there's always a backlash and that doesn't mean that it's the end of progress it means that it's um it's a lull in progress it's a pause um and it is usually followed by more progress but when you're in it when you're in the thick of that backlash um it hurts and it's painful um and it's hard to remember that you need to reach out and stay in within community and um gain strength from that community and from the love that lives and resides there to also remember and go back to our history and remember that these backlashes have happened in the past and we have overcome them and and seen even more progress after them.

[3:33] Wilson Cruz: So um, you know, it feels hard right now for a lot of people, especially our young people who are trans and non-binary, and their parents and their teachers who love them, um, and all of the people who understand how how painful the language that's being used, the the laws that are attempted to be passed around this country, um, the limitations on their joy that people are trying to put on them. And so, my job, our job really as adults and as um elders maybe in this community is to hold them close, to protect them, to remind them how much love exists in the world for them, to um to guard them, to guard their little hearts, um, and let them know that things are gonna be okay eventually. And I believe that.

I really do believe that. Um, but you know, it takes a lot of work and it takes organizations like Glisten, it takes organizations like the Trevor Project and Aliforney and you know, transgender organizations across across this country. Um, so anyway, uh it's just thank God that we have that kind of infrastructure, right? You know, you know, you can think back not too long ago, over 50 years ago, uh when before that that that kind of infrastructure existed in our community, right? Before we had centers, before we had the task force, before we had GLAD and human rights campaign, um, where people were just out there on their own, and now we have these great organizations um that we can go to and rely on and and who fight for us. So, in many ways, things are better, right? We have to remember that.

[5:31] Robert Bannon: Well, I teach fifth grade. I'm an out fifth grade school teacher in Jersey, and I always am asking people such as yourself who I I've looked up to and have been at the forefront of fighting for rights. What do you I have students who come to me that are trans and students who come to me who want to come out and their parents that understand researching about you, your journey to coming out. We look at it now, we see all the we see the the TV shows and the movies and all of that, but your coming out process was not easy. You went through a what a lot of people have gone through, if it's homelessness, if it's looking for jobs, if it's living in a car. It it is it's still like that for people in 2024.

[6:08] Wilson Cruz: It is. Um, especially when you leave, you know, metropolitan areas and um uh that's very real. Um it's why um there's so much fundraising for our centers, for instance, that really work locally in communities um that we have to support. Um it's why it's so important to educate educators and parents, um, so that we can you know uh stop that stop some of that pain from happening even before it starts. Um but yeah, absolutely. There are young people who are still running away from home. Uh, you know, I'm working on a I'm I'm producing uh executive producing a documentary about um LGBTQ youth and um religion. Uh the first season takes place in Utah in the Mormon religion. And when I watch the footage, especially the first time I watched it, it was uh shocking in a way, uh, that they were having similar conversations than the ones that I was having just 30 years ago.

[7:23] Wilson Cruz: Um, and so you know, yes, I talk about progress, but the the job of being a young person in this community is still very similar, right? We're still they're still discovering themselves. There's still anger, there's still the the want and desire for your family to understand and love you and to uh to know that. Um the frustration of having to educate your own parents, um, the frustration of having to go to school and deal with bullies. Um you know, wanting to hold your boyfriend or girlfriend's or partner's hand. Um all of that is still real. You know, I talk about my so-called life, and um, you know, yeah, it took place 30 years ago this year, but you put phones in their hands, you change the clothes a little bit and the music, and they can say the exact same things, and it's still because being a teenager is being a teenager, right?

And being a queer teenager is just still being a queer teenager, and those feelings are universal and real. Um, but it's still hard, and we have to remember that as adults, right? That there are still young people out there who are on that journey of self-discovery and all of the awkwardness and pain and uh, you know, joy as well, uh, that comes with it.

[8:46] Robert Bannon: Well, you talk about my I can't say it better. That's what Wilson Cruz can say it. Oh, this is it. Knows what he's you know what you're talking about. A journey. We did a little deep dive. I dug up some of my favorite moments. People want to, of course, you have to we have to talk about my so-called life, which was so trailblazing. And if you want to know more about that journey, um, your documentary called Visible Out on Television was so well done and in depth because I thought it was gonna be all right, my so-called life on the 80s, the 90s, to that. You went back, you really told the history of the the medium and the art forum.

[9:24] Wilson Cruz: Yeah, I mean, that was we we really went back to the beginning of TV, right? Um, and the first time gay people were even mentioned on television was during the Army McCarthy hearings, and people don't realize that because there's so much about the red scare, but the lavender scare was a huge part of that. Um, and that's part of our history. Uh, the shame that they tried to use in order to keep us in those closets. Uh, and we took it all the way up to the well, at the time, the current day, which was 2017, but you know, and how we used media to tell our story so that people could understand us, how media was used against us at the times.

[9:58] Wilson Cruz: Uh you know, the power of that medium to get people to understand uh the responsibility that comes with making television. Um good and bad.

[10:10] Robert Bannon: It was so good. It's such a good fun watch it, stream it. That's why when you're working on a new documentary uh about the queer community and religion, you all better get ready, buckle up because knows how to tell a story. Um is our I was my my Darius, who thanks to people like you and the visibility and the work and support, we get to be married next year. We're engaged. Like, come on, come on, interracial gay marriage.

[10:34] Wilson Cruz: I um Noah's Ark was the first time that many people uh people of color, especially in the queer community, got to see any reflection of themselves, and then also talk about the HIV AIDS pandemic of the time um how important in history is that that shows pretty ahead of its its time oh it was revolutionary when you think about it i mean i i would i'll tell you how revolutionary it was uh when when the show was on obviously it was on logo and it's it was showed here in the states but it made its way to Africa it was that huge of a moment for men of color especially black men to see men loving men uh that it made its way like the these cds would find their way around the world um there was uh a Chinese website that they they spoke on i mean it was just it was crazy um but you know the desire to see yourself to be represented to understand that you're not the only one um was very real with that show uh we had never seen a show dedicated to the lives of queer LGBTQ men of color uh you know queer men of color um and the relationships the friendships the the humor the drama you know um we made a movie by the way a couple of years ago now i mean actually yeah 22 um that i hear rumor will be out soon um so there's there is a new movie.

[12:16] Wilson Cruz: And it's this isn't, I'm not telling any secrets that's we've we've talked about it, but i have i am anticipating that Willow it will be out soon.

[12:23] Robert Bannon: Oh, we need it it's just as much as we did uh did then. And then you i mean we could go forever. There's Party of Five, and oof, and then you go into musical theater like Rent and Tick Tick Boom and all the youngsters out here and the 13 Reasons Why, which which That's right.

[12:45] Wilson Cruz: And see, and we everyone, all the Trekkies, come on. We love a Star Trek moment. That has been something that I'm sure has its own fandom that aside from any other work you do, people must see you and the Trekkies come out in full force.

[13:01] Wilson Cruz: Full force. I mean, like, you know, I've gone to a few conventions and to see young people, especially to see young, queer Latino boys come up to my table dressed in that uniform, emulating him, and some of them even talking about wanting to actually become doctors because of the inspiration they received from that character in that show is has been amazing. Um and really moving. Um, but you know, to be in a relationship with Anthony Rapp on it, you know, playing the first gay couple in the franchise history, and then to expand that family to include our non-binary and trans charges, our children really, um, to have Aunt Tig Nitaro as well on the show, you know, it's the queerest track ever.

And um it was you know, about time that we saw uh queer people represented. And for me to bring in the history, my own identity as a Puerto Rican man to the show and to that character and his background, so um it's been one of the, if not the most fulfilling and as a creative person experience I've had since maybe my so-called life. It's the longest job I've ever had.

[14:20] Wilson Cruz: And it's I'm just really proud of the man that he ended up becoming. No spoilers, but he went through a lot to get there. So go back and binge watch it if you're not involved and if that didn't sell you, if you're not into the sci-fi of it all, that just sold everyone to check it out. When a project like Mother of the Bride comes to you to be represent, you know, you had to be the gay couple in this wedding extravaganza and all the fun and hijinks. Um why is it important that we have like we need some joy? We need to sometimes, you know, Netflix and eat some popcorn and pizza and uh enjoy a moment.

[14:59] Wilson Cruz: Exactly. And that was why I wanted to do it. I mean, first and foremost, to play Benjamin Bratt's brother, you know, Benjamin is literally our Latino Clark Gable, you know. Uh so he was amazing to work with. I love Brooke. I've always been a fan, she's one of my teen icons. Um, but you know, after five seasons of saving the universe and the high stakes involved, it was just really nice to like put on a swimsuit and have a good time and laugh and be in Thailand and enjoy the beauty of the world. Um, but also like be a part of the most um loving and stable relationship in that movie with um with the one of the funniest men in the world, Michael McDonald. So um all of that was a reason to do it.

Um, and I got to spend a week after uh I finished the movie in Thailand with my brother, and we got to explore and have a great time. It was just I needed it. I mean, telling you, when I say after five seasons of high stakes and drama and you know, literally saving the universe, it was it was earned, I'll say.

[16:14] Wilson Cruz: Well, and the fact that it's been received in such a huge way is I mean, we did not see that coming, I have to tell you. We just thought we were making a little movie. We had no idea that it was gonna be the number one movie, especially over Mother's Day. I mean it, it's a big it's been a big surprise to all of us, and we're really grateful. I think the latest numbers are it's something like over 30 million plus streams. I don't even know. Listen, I mean, we got canceled on my so-called life because we had eight million viewers a week, which today would be a huge hit, by the way. But I mean, like 30 million viewers is I'm just glad that I got to be funny.

[16:54] Robert Bannon: Well, speaking of not funny, but the work that you do outside of it, you have won awards and now you sit on boards. Um, I'm sure you think of that kid growing up in New York City and this journey, and when you went out to LA and try to make it in this business and and now to you know, winning awards like from organizations like GLAD and being on the cover of Out. I don't think Wilson Cruz has ever ate a carb in his life. That's proof, right there.

[17:16] Wilson Cruz: Nope. I don't believe it. We need we need the receipts. We need a picture of you eating a piece of pizza.

[17:24] Wilson Cruz: That was 2019, I think, or 2020. So we see you in Mother of the Bride. It's the same, it's the same. Don't play.

[17:36] Robert Bannon: Oh god. How do you differentiate your life? I mean, it's gotta be very weighing. You have people like me and millions of other people asking you for advice and where do we put our money? How do we do things? What do we do to make things better? You've taken this leadership role, but that comes with a lot of pressure and responsibility. So, how do you unwind? How do you get to just do you ever get to just be and turn it off?

[18:02] Wilson Cruz: That's a hard question today, I have to tell you. Um I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm just gonna be very honest with you. It is a lot sometimes. Uh, and I don't want to be the guy who complains about being busy all the time because we should all be able to find time to rest. But it has been a very busy time, and I do wear a few different hats between executive producing this documentary, being the chair of the board at Glisten, managing my own career, um, being an uncle and a brother, and um trying to find a partner of my own. Um, you know, it can be a lot. So, like Sunday, for instance, after I was in Mexico City promoting Trek. We went from there to LA. My brother traveled with me to LA to go to the premiere of Mother of the Bride.

I got home on a on Sunday on Monday morning at 10 a.m. I had to make a self tape for a job, which I did not get. Um, and then you know, there's promo that you know, it just keeps going, and then I had the Glisten Respect Awards anyway. My point is this past Sunday, um I literally turned off everything. I just turned it was a rainy day here. I closed those blinds, I turned off the phones, I did not answer anything, and I found something on the Criterion channel, Shirley McLean and Fred Astaire, and I ordered some food and I just chilled out.

[19:50] Wilson Cruz: Um then I started all over again on Monday. Um I'm not complaining, you know what I mean? Like I I'm so grateful that I get to have these opportunities that I get to be on this board and help our young people. That my movie was number one after going to the premiere, which we had a great time, that Mexico City was amazing, you know what I mean? Like it was all of those things, but it does come with responsibility, and I do I put on I put a lot of pressure on myself to do the best possible job I can do. Um, and anything less is uh disappointment. So um I I'm grateful to you for the question because it is a reminder that I have to take good care of myself as well.

[20:36] Robert Bannon: Yeah, we we want Wilson Cruz. We all do, we all do. It's a good reminder. I'm gonna take that note so everyone take that note for yourself. You bring up being on the board of Glisten. What is that an organization that we can do something to help support? How can we help support? And what do they do?

[20:54] Wilson Cruz: Absolutely. Um, so we're a national organization that works to make every school in this country a safe space for queer students. Uh, we're also the central hub for all of the GSAs around the country, which are gender sexual sexuality, gender and sexuality alliances. Uh, we work with federal, state, and local governments in order to create comprehensive policies that protect young people. We work with schools so that there is inclusive curriculum. We find supportive educators so that students know that there's someone at school that supports them if they need anything. Um, and these GSAs that are support groups, those are our four pillars that we that all of our work um surrounds. So if that sounds like something that you know that I know uh makes students' school environments and experiences better to create the kind of citizens that we all need them to become in order to make this place functional and better, uh then you can go to glisten.org for forward slash donate and help us because we do need the help.

[22:12] Wilson Cruz: You know, this is an organization that used to be the safest place for people to put their money back just not too long ago when I was first on this board seven years ago. And now because of the right wing using this disgusting language and these falsehoods, they've tried to paint this organization as something about groomers, whatever that is. The only thing we groom is our hair. Um, so you know, if you could please do whatever you can to support us and support our young people and our students, um we are creating the new leaders of this community as we speak.

[22:48] Robert Bannon: Oh, that means that's as an out educator, like I said, and somebody who was always concerned about how out I can be before they come for me, or before parents or somebody in the building thinks I'm doing something that's inappropriate. I wrote the curriculum for our school district for pride. Let me tell you, people, there's no grooming. There, we don't even use the language that they say is used. Nobody's insane. It's insane. It's insane. And it is literally literally insanity. There, it's just made up BS.

[23:19] Wilson Cruz: So I hope people go and donate. We're gonna put the link below so that you can click. Make sure you vote on every election, every single one of them. I mean, make check your registration as we speak, right? Like that's what you can do right now. Just go make sure that you are updated in terms of your registration to vote so that when election day comes, you can go and use your right that you still have as of this year.

[23:45] Wilson Cruz: For now. And I can't guarantee it after November unless you vote. Go out and vote. We'll be following. Follow Wilson on Instagram at WCruz73. There's a link below, and you can find the links and all the information about all that. You can stream Mother of the Bride on Netflix so you can stay up to date and uh watch all the fun and the hijinks of it all. And then we're gonna all celebrate pride, go out there and have fun, be safe and and show the world that we have a voice and that we're out here in these streets and we're part of your community families.

[24:15] Robert Bannon: And again, Darius, look, you don't get a wedding gift now. You got Wilson Cruz. Here he is. See? Hi, Darius. See? See? Come on. That saved me like a couple grand and a gift. We need to get Wilson Cruz's wedding on.

[24:33] Wilson Cruz: From my um, it is such an honor to have you here. We I like I said, we we all model um of our bravery and transparency in our lives is because you did this for us many years ago and you are at the forefront of that. And I say thank you. This whole community thanks you. We owe you a great debt of gratitude. Thank you for being here.

[24:56] Wilson Cruz: Thank you for some being so sweet. I really appreciate it.