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[0:10] Robert Bannon: Are you ready? It's The Roundtable with me, Robert Bannon. Welcome to The Roundtable, everybody. My name is Robert Bannon. You're listening to some Broadway World over here on the Broadway Podcast Network, iHeart, Spotify. And uh I'm so excited because off Broadway right now, Truman vs. Israel is coming. It's a political drama that maybe we don't all know about. And we have an incredible group of people, like an incredible, incredible group of people with us today. The playwright, William Spatz is here, the director, Randy White is here, and then the Tony nominee. I saw the original Miss Saigon back when I was a little 11-year-old. My dad got front row tickets at Christmas. And I fell in love with theater, and I'm so excited that I'm really, really excited that Willie Falk is here. Welcome to The Roundtable, everybody. Come on in.

[1:00] Willie Falk: Thank you.

[1:01] Robert Bannon: 11-year-old going to see Miss Saigon. You know, what other 11-year-olds don't want to know about war and prostitution and illegitimate relationships? We were from Jersey, so we were used to it already by then. All right. Now everybody in Jersey is gonna hate you now. So who's Truman vs. Israel? Let's start this. Let's start things up. William, this is your idea. This is your baby. You wrote this. So where did the idea come from?

[1:31] William Spatz: So it came from uh I went to a lecture about Israel and the birth of Israel and Truman's relationship with it. Uh well-known lecture. It was very interesting. Standard. All the information that I grew up with, he just sort of reiterated, but in a good way. Uh very shortly thereafter, I saw a documentary by Steven Spielberg's sister, uh, which seemed to significantly contradict what took place in the formation of Israel and Truman's role in it, which sparked my interest. And through a great deal of uh investigation, particularly the Truman Library was an amazing source of information. Uh the myth of Truman's role as Israel started to become clear to me. And from that came the play.

[2:24] Robert Bannon: Well, I can't believe that you worked on this. I'm so obsessed with people who are studious and read books and do document, like document and find deep dives into subjects way smarter than me. So kudos to you. I'm so impressed. While we're talking, everybody, um, I want everyone to know that while we're talking the show is at St. Clement's in New York City from October 9th to January 4th. And Willie will be there. He may even at a curtain call, he may even, I don't know, bring his Tony Award nomination on stage and out. And um, it's gonna be a magical night. So when we talk about this, and Randy, when you got the script, how do you know each other? And how did you say yes to this?

[3:07] Randy White: So it started back in Chicago. We did a production back in uh 2018. Uh, and what happened was someone had sent me a copy of the script and said they're looking for a director, and what caught my attention right away was the I'm a big fan of Truman. Uh, my father-in-law is a Truman uh aficionado, and so he's foisted all of the books on me over the years. And then when the second character that's introduced in the play in an imagined meeting between the two is Bella Abzug. And I had spent about 10 years in New York, and my wife insists to this day that Bella Abzug was her congresswoman, even though she wasn't, but she was so present on TV that my wife remembers her as her congresswoman. Um and I was immediately hooked.

I was like, who would put Bella Abzug and Harry Truman together in a room and what kind of sparks will fly when you do that? And so that's how I got involved because I was just utterly fascinated by the meeting of these two individuals, which never happened in real life, but is the whole setup for this play.

[4:06] Robert Bannon: It's such a unique idea, so original. Crazy. It's a crazy idea. And y'all, that's William for you. Crazy. And then the rest of you all are crazy for jumping on board, but in the best way, because that's how the best art is made. So my question for you, um, for you, Willie, is that do you play Truman?

[4:26] Willie Falk: I am portraying uh a version of Truman that is in the play.

[4:32] Robert Bannon: The audition for Abzug, but they saw these. How do you find Truman?

[4:38] Willie Falk: How do I find it?

[4:40] Robert Bannon: Yeah.

[4:41] Willie Falk: Well, um, I have watched uh luckily there's a big trove of his speeches and film. And in fact, he gave the first uh TV presidential address on television in the early 50s. Um, so I did some of that study, and I did some autobiographical study on him. Do you know he's the only president that didn't go to college?

[5:08] Robert Bannon: Really?

[5:09] Willie Falk: Yes. He was um some there's a book about him where he's called the accidental president. I think of him like an actor, you know, that we get all sorts of different jobs, and we just try to do our best every time. And he had all sorts of different jobs before he got into politics, and he just happened to be an honest, straight shoot, you know, steady Eddie in every job he got in politics. So they kept moving him up, moving him up. And then he was vice president just at in the middle of the Second World War, just before FDR died, and he suddenly became president at the time when there were many consequential decisions to be made. And he was just thrust into it, and he tried always tried to do his best.

[5:58] Robert Bannon: Which is fascinating, and he is definitely one of the iconic presidents of our time. And I had no idea that he never went to college.

[6:07] Willie Falk: He was very studious. He read a lot.

[6:09] Robert Bannon: Yeah. I will say that when he left office, he was to this day probably the most unpopular president ever. Uh bar none. Uh, but interestingly, in 1988, which is where part of this play takes place, he was ranked the fourth best president ever. So it just shows you how history can change its mind.

[6:33] Willie Falk: That's and that's like actors too. We get better with age.

[6:37] Robert Bannon: Yeah, I'm ready. That's good. If you saw me in the Tin Man in fifth grade, you would think I was better now than I was then too. I was this in New Jersey.

[6:48] Willie Falk: And of course, Fort Lee, New Jersey.

[6:48] Robert Bannon: The iconic.

[6:50] Willie Falk: The iconic 1995 Wizard of Oz at Fort Lee Elementary School, as we all know about.

[6:58] Robert Bannon: Uh maybe I'll maybe that William. That's your next source material.

[7:01] Willie Falk: It's a story.

[7:02] William Spatz: I'll park that in my back of my brain. Thank you.

[7:08] Robert Bannon: When you get this idea, you started writing this obviously not yesterday. It's probably been a couple of years and a lot of work and a lot of hours. How long have you been working on this?

[7:17] William Spatz: Well, the originally started working out in 2016. We first produced the precursor to this called Truman and the Birth of Israel, which Randy directed, which ran very successfully in Chicago. We also took it down to Florida for a weekend run. And so in 2018, we put it on. We were going to bring it to New York in pre-COVID. And then COVID hit and that we shelved it. And then I started reworking it because we felt that the play as it stood was not of the level that would be required to be able to be successful on off Broadway and a sophisticated New York audience. So it's a significantly different play based on the same basic facts and what we refer to as the myth of Truman.

[8:22] Robert Bannon: Well, William, what I'll have a question for you because and then we'll go to Randy about who's in this and how. But when you started this, you wouldn't probably never imagined that we were in the time where Israel and the recognition of Israel as a nation, as a state, would be something we're talking about in the year 2025. I mean, the idea that this is as timely as ever is very scary and is very important that then people see the history and what kind of went into some of this conversation that's in the zeitgeist these days.

[8:51] William Spatz: Yeah. Well, we are in a of course in a very sad and difficult period. Um, but this is I say it's very it's a historical perspective, how people want to uh bring that into present day circumstances, it will be up to them, but that's not you know, we're not making a commentary on what's going on in today's world.

[9:14] Robert Bannon: But you're giving actual historical facts in some of the conversation.

[9:18] William Spatz: And the real what's what's what I find most interesting, and what drove me to it is that the facts are so completely opposite of what I grew up knowing and what I feel people will I said, leave your will leave what you know at the door because you're about to learn the real the real facts. And what I found from Chicago when we did a lot of talkbacks, and we had as much as 50% of the audience would stay to have discussions, is that they were blown away from all that they did not know or all that they believed, um, or that they didn't know anything and were shocked that this took place.

[10:00] Randy White: Amazing, amazing. Um, it's gonna be something that you definitely need to see. Randy, tell us about it. How do you take his words and his ideas and then put your expertise and this incredible cast that you've assembled and work between the cast and the writer? You're kind of the leader of the ship in the middle of all of the storm. So, how do you navigate all of that? Every new play you do is its own quirky adventure. And you find yourself starting with the words on the I'm a text guy, I'm just an old-fashioned text guy. My job is to protect the play, my job is to get that play, and then you're counting on actors like Willie and the three other actors we have in the show, and then you just grind it in rehearsal, and you just go through moment by moment, you go, let's interrogate this.

What does it mean historically? What does it mean in terms of what's going on? And then ultimately, what you want is that vibrancy on the stage between a couple of actors, and you have the quality of these people that we're working with, it's absolutely wonderful. And it's really worth noting that it's a history play. You're gonna learn a lot, but that's not what makes the play work. What makes the play work is it's a play about a couple of people trying to win a situation, trying to write the first draft of history for themselves, and that is exciting on the stage.

[11:18] Willie Falk: Really, really exciting. Willie, how many do you have a chance? Do you keep track of how many shows you've done? Do you know how many shows you've done?

[11:29] Willie Falk: No. I'm at the stage in my career where I start leaving things off on my resume because the prep would be too small. But done a lot.

[11:40] Willie Falk: You must be over 75.

[11:44] Willie Falk: I'm over a hundred and seventy-five. Uh, but I've only done seven Broadway shows.

[11:50] Randy White: Oh, right.

[11:52] Willie Falk: Which is only seven.

[11:53] Randy White: Oh, only seven.

[11:54] Willie Falk: You know, it's only seven more than I've done, so it's not that impressive.

[11:58] Randy White: Yeah, but I've never been in the Wizard of Oz.

[12:00] Willie Falk: Well, you know, I can make some calls for you in Richmond Park, New Jersey for you. So when you get given a script, or you go on an audition, or you're self-taping for TV and film, or people reach out to you, you don't say yes to every project. Not every project is something that you want to do. It's not every project, it's the work that it's going to take to be Harry Truman to learn these lines. The text density of a play that you're gonna be up on stage. Why this? When you saw it, what made you say, like, this is what I want to invest my time? This is what I want to do this winter and fall in New York City.

[12:36] Willie Falk: Are you trying to ask me why would I want to learn 80 pages of dialogue?

[12:40] Randy White: Yes.

[12:41] Willie Falk: At my age.

[12:42] Randy White: No, I didn't say at your age now.

[12:45] Willie Falk: No. But if you're gonna say that, sure. It doesn't get easier. But what I want to say is that the idea of putting two important people together in a room that really never met and historical fiction is really a cool idea. I mean, I would love to see a play, let's say, with Elizabeth I and Elizabeth II getting together in a room and talking about their reigns and what they did. Something like that. But these people are closer together, they have more in common. And it was fascinating. And the more I learned about Harry Truman, the more I found there were many things about him that I had in common with him. Although he was in a very public-facing job, he was really also a very private person. And as soon as he finished his presidency, he got on a train and went back to Independence, Missouri, where he was from, and he wanted to live a quiet life with his wife there.

He said, where people just let him walk around, they don't know who he is, and he's not treated like a celebrity. And he said, the problem with being a president is once you've been a president, you're always people are always gathering around you, and you always have to have protection too, because there's always somebody crazy who wants to get after a president, not because of what you did, but just because of the office that you held. So he just loved being back in a small town where he wasn't a celebrity. And being a star was never something that appealed to me because I knew stars that their lives became hell after they were a star.

[14:25] Randy White: What a fascinating, what a look at humanity and history and complex, a complex man for sure. Um William, when you read the press release, it talks about prejudice, power, conviction, compromise, legacy, and humanity. Those are some pretty big themes, some pretty big words that you tackled. You tackle and the kudos to your PR team. That's some deep, deep, deep things there. I'm teaching theme in the seventh grade. You may need to come teach them about that here in my classroom. So for you, what is at the heart of the story? What do you think the message is when people leave?

[14:57] William Spatz: It's first and foremost, and what I believe is every good play is based on it's about the characters, it's about the people, it's about what we learn about them, it's about how they interreact with each other, what they expose, what they hide. As Randy was saying, it's always a power amongst these heavyweights, it's always a power struggle. It's always who's gonna win the room. Um, yeah, so it's that's what I like most about it. But behind that, I sort of break it into two categories. If you love history, then you're easy. This is wonderful. If you like a really good character analysis and want to learn about famous people and what they have to battle through, you'll this is a good lesson about those people. It's gonna be great.

[15:45] Randy White: So, it's not for just people who love to read historical biographies, it's not for the academia set only. It's gonna be some drama and some entertainment for everybody. Everybody can access the way that this play is written.

[15:59] Randy White: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that any good drama is essentially a comedy at its heart. You don't, you know, you the funniest play that I've ever seen is, you know, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Uh and so for me, when I'm directing and thinking about it, it's like every moment when two human beings are actually talking with each other like we are right here, you want to get the joke. And the joke is where you make the other person hear you. And so that's kind of where I start with trying to deal with drama. And then, of course, you get the moment where something slams and something lands. But I start with comedy. I think that's the basic of you want to win the audience, you want to win each other, and so that's where good theater starts.

[16:37] Randy White: Randy, tell us about this incredible cast and who's working with you on this, aside from Willie, which old you know, Willie's we're old Hatton here. We know about Willie. Who else is on the stage?

[16:50] Randy White: Okay, so we've got Bella Absex played by Sasha Eden. Sasha is kind of I would say she's like downtown royalty in New York theater. She's done theater work throughout the New York ecosystem of theater. And then we got Mark Lotito, right?

[17:07] Randy White: Lotito, sorry, Lotito. Um, many Broadway shows, both wonderful actors, and Matt Kaplan, who's playing our one character who is not a historical figure, who actually ends up being kind of an engine of the play in some ways. But all four of these folks in the room bring in intelligence and bring a spirit of investigation, keep me on my toes and keep Bill on his toes in terms of like just coming at this and trying to understand it and then trying to lift it and make it sing. It's been a treat. It's just a treat. I love good actors. Actors, if you're a director, all you want is an actor. That's all you want.

[17:56] Willie Falk: What else can you say? It's gonna be a magical night in New York Theater. You can get your tickets, go to ovationtix.com. Ovationtix.com is where you can get your tickets. And everybody, what a great place to see a show. Everybody, Truman vs. Israel. The world premiere here in New York City. It's gonna be an amazing night. It's gonna be an interesting run and show. You're gonna have all sorts of history facts. Maybe you'll win trivia at your local bar, pizza night. You know, you're gonna find out some facts that you've never ever heard before. Come see this guy. You have to. Willie is a New York theater legend. He's an acting legend. He is somebody who can sing his face off, act his face off.

And now getting to see him be Truman is going to be worth the price of admission. And we really appreciate you. I'm really thankful for all the work that you've done. I grew up really being obsessed and loving the musicals and the work that you did. And it's so an honor to talk to you.

[18:48] Willie Falk: I just thought to say that actually, if go to our website for tickets is even better. Please TrumanvsIsrael.com. And it'll talk about what the play's about, talk about who's starring in it, and of course, hopefully you'll go buy tickets and come see us.

[19:05] Randy White: Perfect. Even better. It will be the link below us. So if you're watching us right now and listening to us, click the link right beneath us in the description, and we're so excited to have you. Thank you all for spending some time with me. It's a real honor. Congratulations.