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[0:04] Robert Bannon: Are you ready? It's the Roundtable with me, Robert Bannon. Ladies and gentlemen, folks out here, everybody. I just want to let you know that I'm so honored and excited. When I was 12 years old, I went over to the Nearlander. I saw an incredible show that changed my life and made me want to be an actor. It just so happened to star one of our guests. I've been obsessed with the show ever since. I had a bad audition for the show at 18.

[0:28] Jesse L. Martin: Oh no.

[0:29] Robert Bannon: I got to do the show eventually at 32. I came out to this show at 32 after a terrible. This show has changed my life.

[0:37] Jesse L. Martin: Who were you playing?

[0:39] Robert Bannon: I went in, Jesse, to be Mark because I did not want to be Roger. Because at 18, Telsey called me in and gave me one day to learn one song, "Glory." There was no YouTube. That's a hard song. There's too many one songs and "Glory" before a young girl and a young guy, and then Adam Pascal told me he had the words on the table for the first month.

[1:00] Jesse L. Martin: That's right.

[1:01] Robert Bannon: Thank you, Jesse. He did. It was kind of amazing that he did that, but he did. I know it changed your life, but I hope and understood. I hope you understand it changed millions of people's lives around the world.

[1:15] Jesse L. Martin: I do. Um, look, one of the things I'd love to do now is be the guy that shows up at every production. Whether it's, you know, in Pennsylvania or Japan. Like I'd love to see. I've never seen the show in another language. I've been in contact with people. Like when Andy Senior, who was one of our cast members, um, he did a production with a Cuban company. And they sang "Seasons of Love" in Spanish. And it was—can I say yeah? Can I can I swear?

[1:55] Robert Bannon: Yes.

[1:57] Jesse L. Martin: Okay, it was fucking beautiful. Beautiful. And I was like, wait a minute. Jonathan Larson never got to hear his songs in Spanish. And he certainly hasn't heard it in Japanese or Portuguese or Closa Zulu. And those productions have happened. And they have happened, and they've happened all around the world. Uh and they happen around the world all the time. And people are listening to your version of you. I mean, you are you're the Talent. I wanted to—I had a whole intro that I got too nervous to talk about because I was ready to sing. That you know, you gotta get in that live in my—when you—or I wanted to ask you if your debit card password was still A N G E L.

[2:46] Jesse L. Martin: Of course it is.

[2:49] Robert Bannon: That's why it's this show and your career. I wanted to go back if you don't mind. Um, you're from Virginia originally.

[2:57] Jesse L. Martin: Yes.

[2:58] Robert Bannon: You're four boys in the house. You have a truck driver dad, you have a college counselor mom. None of that sounds like musical theater superstar to me. How'd it happen?

[3:09] Jesse L. Martin: Uh, bruh, I—you know how back in the day they used to say it takes a village? Yes, it took a village. Um, look, how I grew up was not great. Um, the situation at home was always bad. It was bad. Um, but God bless my mom, like she made sure that like somehow she figured out that like he needs to be engaged in something. And initially it was art. Like I was an avid drawer, like I still am. Love drawing. Um, and my mom would just sort of push me into spaces. Now when my mom separated from my dad, we ended up moving to Buffalo, New York.

[3:56] Robert Bannon: I don't know if you know anything about Buffalo, New York.

[3:58] Jesse L. Martin: I do. I'm a Jersey boy over here, so I know a little something about Buffalo.

[4:05] Jesse L. Martin: Buffalo, when I was coming up, had their heyday with public schools. They had these things called magnet schools where they put kids in spaces where they thought they'd develop. And that meant where if you were more of an artistic mind, you went to the art school. If you were more of a math mind, you went to the city honors school. And I went to the art school. And I had teachers who literally looked out for me. That's how it happened. Look, the big story with me is I don't really love musicals that much. Seen a lot, done a lot, but I don't really love them like that. Like usually. Actor, actually drama play dude. Like I've done more Shakespeare on Broadway than I've done musicals.

[4:59] Robert Bannon: But see, that's what I was gonna say to you because when I was reading about you, that you were like when you did "Rent," you were already a bro, like everyone else is this unknown, everyone talks about this unknown. You were a Broadway star already.

[5:11] Jesse L. Martin: I wasn't a star. I had words on Broadway, so God bless you for saying that. But like, no, I wasn't a star.

[5:15] Robert Bannon: You and Laney Kazan were up there working away.

[5:20] Jesse L. Martin: Yes, we were. God bless that woman. Yes, we were. Yes, we were. Brian Bedford. Um, I like the one thing I remember about "Time In of Athens" was my first Broadway show, and the thing I take away from that one actually was kind of Laney Kazan, because she was a whole trip.

[5:44] Robert Bannon: Oh, she did this show before, and that was one of the wildest interviews I've ever done in my life.

[5:48] Jesse L. Martin: Really?

[5:50] Robert Bannon: She's a treat.

[5:51] Jesse L. Martin: Yes, she's a treat. But I got to work. Uh, me and Michael Stuhlbarg played twins in "Time Out of Athens," which is wild to talk about. Michael Stuhlbarg and me, twins.

[6:03] Jesse L. Martin: Michael, who talk about a good actor.

[6:05] Robert Bannon: He's a hell of an actor.

[6:07] Jesse L. Martin: Fantastic actor. Why were you all twins?

[6:09] Jesse L. Martin: I bruh, I don't know. But like that's what happened. There we were, like same clothes, just acting like twins.

[6:19] Robert Bannon: So what after the Broadway shows, these Broadway shows ended, the story, the lore of the story. Now I read books, I read Tim's book, I've read books about "Rent." You were really working, you were really waiting tables at the Moondance Diner.

[6:32] Jesse L. Martin: Yes, that's how I met Jonathan. Uh, but I when I auditioned for "Rent," I didn't remember Jonathan. Because it was a couple years later. And we kept looking at each other like, wow, we know each other. How do we know each other? Because when I worked at the Moondance, I—you know, when you work as a waiter, you train for a couple weeks, right? And Jonathan trained me. And he was really good at it, by the way. Uh, but I ended up getting a guest star on a show called um "New York Undercover." That was way, way, way, way back in the day. So I quit. I quit the Moondance. Cut to two years later. I'm in the audition room at New York Theater Workshop, and I'm looking at Jonathan. He's looking at me, and he was like, we kind of know each other.

Like, I'm not sure why or what, but we know each other. After getting the role, um, there was one day when Jonathan walked into rehearsal and he had these dirty ass Converse sneakers on. And he smelled like the Moondance. And like, if you ever worked in a restaurant, you remember them smells. I was like, bro, now I know how we know each other. I worked in the Moondance. You trained me. He was like, oh my god, that's right. That's so good.

[7:55] Jesse L. Martin: So oh man, it's just—it kind of breaks my heart to talk about it. I know, and I don't want to make it, I don't want to make it um—what's incredible I will say about you is a lot of people um reading about it or talking to people from the show. I've had Adam here and we had Wilson here. I'm—I know you know Wilson well. Uh y'all literally lived that life together uh on stage, and all of you all went through. I don't think many people can understand what you all went through when you did that show because I don't think people talk about "Hamilton," people talk about an explosion that changes theater, but you guys had tragedy and joy really bundled up in 24 hours, you know, a month.

[8:33] Jesse L. Martin: Absolutely.

[8:34] Robert Bannon: Yeah. The most unique story of theater history ever.

[8:38] Jesse L. Martin: I agree. Um look, we're—I've been doing a lot of chatting with the original cast lately. Um, because it's supposedly our 30th anniversary. And I was like, well, what are we—what do we—are we gonna do anything? Like, are we gonna do anything for that? What I can say is that almost everybody in the original cast could still do it, could still sing those songs. I don't know, maybe Wilson might not be able to jump on them tables like he was before, but like I guess you—I can guarantee you he would try, but Anthony could still sing that shit, Adam can still sing it, Daphne can still sing it, I can still sing it. Um, there was a time there where "I'll Cover You" reprise was my warm-up, the high notes and all the whole thing, bro. I still sing it to this day. I sang it yesterday.

[8:58] Robert Bannon: Wait, are you just singing it in your shower, in your bathroom at your house, vacuuming the floor?

[8:58] Jesse L. Martin: Yup. My dog looks at me like, what the fuck is up with this song? You know, look, when Wilson was here at the end of the interview he gave me a "Today for You, Tomorrow for Me" in the voice up there. He's got it, he's still got it. When you emotionally do that show because you did the show on Broadway, you did the show in the West End, you did the movie, you did—you guys have—you've sung that song for years to live in that space on that bare stage and sing that song. I—not bare stage and the rest of the cast is there, but did you—how did you emotionally as an actor not be exhausted? Was there a moment when you didn't want to do it anymore, that you couldn't do it anymore?

[10:31] Jesse L. Martin: Um, not really. Um, there was moments before actually going on stage that I felt that way. There was never any moments when I was actually on stage where I felt that way. Like especially on the West End, like I didn't have a particularly great time there because I was homesick, like I missed New York at the time. So before call time, I would get really depressed. But as soon as we came on the stage, it didn't matter. Like I was—I still have to show up. I'm like, you gotta do this. So yeah, I can't think of too many times where I couldn't do it. Like I always felt like I could do it.

[11:22] Robert Bannon: When the run ended, and you talk about not loving musicals, which is so funny, and I love that so much. Because I love music, but I did musical theater for years, and at one point I did a show, and I just said, like, I don't like—I don't like this. I don't want to do this anymore. But you did like serious, like "Merchant of Venice," serious, like acting.

[11:41] Jesse L. Martin: That stuff I love. Like, I had one of the best times I've ever had in "Merchant of Venice." I loved it, like I absolutely loved it. And I don't know if you ever talked to Al Pacino.

[11:55] Jesse L. Martin: No, what you want to call him for me? Bring him up. I wish I could. Look, I'm not even sure he'd even remember me right now, even though we did the show forever. We did it in the park, we did it on Broadway. But that guy loved us, that guy loved actors. And we I look, Shakespeare is my jam. Like when I was a little kid in Buffalo, talk about the village. Um, I had a teacher, Clarita D. Henderson, god rest her soul. Um, she just made sure I was always in the room when it came to arts and everything. She bought me a membership to the art gallery in Buffalo, which I didn't even know that was a thing, but she did. She was like, you can walk into that art gallery and just look at art all day long if you want to.

I was like, okay, cool, I'll do that. But she also got me a job. Buffalo had its own version of Shakespeare in the park. So I became an intern there, like building sets, setting up mics the whole night. I learned all the things you could learn about theater without actually being on stage because I was a kid, and we got to take acting lessons with who I thought was like a whole grown-up, but she was a college student at the University of Buffalo. So I got an introduction to Shakespeare very, very young, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I don't know, look, I was a black kid, east side of Buffalo, grew up in the hood hood. And who like I there was no world where I was supposed to be doing Shakespeare ever, but there I was, I was doing it.

And cut to many years later at NYU, um, they started a Shakespeare studio that I was one of the first students of, and I loved it. And my first job out of school was Shakespeare. I did a tour with the acting company. Uh we did Romeo and Juliet and two gentlemen of Verona for more than a year. So that was my first job.

[14:18] Robert Bannon: Did you know, but did you always know you could sing?

[14:21] Jesse L. Martin: Yeah. Um that came from like just going to church as a kid. Like we were like straight up, you know, hardcore Baptist. Yeah. So we I sang in church, but I didn't know I was good at it. I had no idea, like literally no idea. I'll tell you something funny about auditioning for Rent. Um I was doing a play at the time at Hartford Stage. And Bernie Telsi, God loved this man. Um he would call me in for everything, even if I didn't fit. Like he would just say, come in anyway. I guess he just saw me as that actor who could try anything. He asked me to come in for Rent, and I didn't want to do it. I was like, I don't even know what it is. Like, again, Rent was a workshop, right? And so there was not much on paper.

Bernie sent me like some paper with words on it. But it I was like, well, which part is for me? And none of it was for me. There was no Tom Collins at the time. It was just Mark, Roger. And I was like, well, what am I supposed to do with these pieces of paper? He's like, I don't know, just come in and sing. Would you just please come into the city and sing? So I rode the train from Connecticut to go audition. And to be honest, I didn't know what I was doing. So I just picked a song that I knew how to sing really well, which was Amazing Grace. And so I just went in there. I one of the things I did know is I loved Michael Grife. I'd seen a couple shows of his. I was like, well, that's a that's a director I'd really like to work with.

So I'll take this seriously for about 20 minutes. I'll go in there and I'll sing the hell out of Amazing Grace because I know how to sing that song. And then I'll go back to work because I had to go back to do a show that night. And I didn't really think I I didn't want to do it because I had no idea what it was. Like I literally had no idea what it was. They called me that night. I was actually, it was half hour for the show I was doing. They called me and said, hey, we want to offer you the role. But what is the role? Like I had no idea what it was. Like, no idea. We had no idea what Rent was going to be when we walked into that rehearsal room. No idea.

[16:50] Jesse L. Martin: The idea that like so many things happened on that third floor in the rehearsal room is amazing. Like I remember when Jonathan decided, like in the script, it used to say Maureen and Joanne have a fight. There's a song, they have a fight, and at the end they break up. But there was no song, there was no text. Then one day, Jonathan came in and was like, Freddie, Adina, come over here. I'm going to show you something. And then Take Me or Leave Me happened. And these two girls came in the room singing it like they knew it all their lives, which was amazing. Killing it. Like killing it. And I was like, oh my God. Oh my God, this is amazing. And you I mean, you're right there as the show was literally pieced together as time went on.

[17:53] Robert Bannon: Yeah. And when you asked me about you.

[18:01] Jesse L. Martin: The reprise. I always saw that as a song to Jonathan. Uh I had to sing that song at his memorial. Do you remember at the time? Like I felt the whole time that I had something lodged in my throat. And it was really hard to sing. Uh but every single time I've ever sung it, it was always for Jonathan. Always. And I think it is the most heartbreaking, beautiful, and in a show of thousands of beautiful moments. It is the standout. I know in my house, my husband, speaking of growing up, he's from Detroit. You know, he will say, Oh, gay man from Detroit, but uh, don't mess with me because I'm from the hood. You know, I know the album, we play it every birthday. There's something about it that is life. It's the bittersweet of life. It's the good, it's the bad, it's the joy, it's the relationships, it's the death and the and the life and the love, and it's it's what is universal.

[19:10] Jesse L. Martin: Yeah. And you got to be uh you all, you know, Anthony and Adam and Daphne and and Wilson and Dina and Freddie and Tay and you and the rest of the ensemble of the show and the incredible creative team Michael and and and Tim and everybody that got to be a part of it, and and of course, Jonathan, you you changed theater, you changed the world, and you took the stigma away as a 12. My parents tell the story about the you won the Tony for Best Musical. They took me and my brother, not knowing what the show was about. And at that time, you know, trans, gay, HIV, they were embarrassed to take my 12-year-old self. They it was things that have never been spoken in a mainstream way.

[19:51] Robert Bannon: And you're it's also never been spoken in your house?

[19:56] Jesse L. Martin: No. We were not, there was no dreadful. So as a as a as a 12-year-old, when you're sitting there watching the show, like what did it do to you?

[20:07] Jesse L. Martin: I I really, and I'm not trying to be cliche and corny, but to see the relationship between you, your character and Angel makes you realize I think it put an imprint and put a footprint in my heart that people can love each other. I think it is important to see gay people, black people, people living, living with and living with that, you know, as uh with with I think it's important to take the stigma away. I was so I grew up, I'm born in 83. I was a Magic Johnson. You were all gonna die of AIDS, watch the after school special, kind of that dude's still living. Yeah. And to see it in the way that it was written, and and that people could love each other and and and be okay and happy. I think it changed, it changed so many of us. It changed a generation of people.

[20:52] Robert Bannon: Wow, that's kind of awesome. Um you know, I've obviously learned a lot just doing the show, but the idea that people, especially really young people, got to see it in a way like you got to see it, where like you probably went home after that show and was like, wait, my whole shit has just changed.

[21:14] Jesse L. Martin: Everything. I mean, me and my cousin Michelle saying, Would you light my candle for 20 years? I mean, we changed our life. That's amazing. It changed our life. It literally, the double CD was you know, and and and cassette lived in our house. You know, it changed our life.

[21:28] Jesse L. Martin: Oh. I um speaking of my husband, my mother-in-law has never been to New York. She um only wants to come to New York because of Law and Order or Blue Bloods. Um she only gets impressed when I have gospel singers on or people from Law and Order. So when I called you know, when I called her when I called her and I told her about you, it was quite Mama Lewis was quite excited about Detective Green coming on here.

[21:56] Robert Bannon: Is the story that you got a part and turned it down because you want you wanted Law and Order or it was like you're uh a thing.

[22:04] Jesse L. Martin: Um, okay, here's you know you did 198 episodes, like you're on TV somewhere 247 every day. That's absolutely true. I hope checks are just stacking up in that mailbox, Jesse L. Martin.

[22:16] Jesse L. Martin: Listen, I wish it was more, but then there's a little bit, there's a little bit there. Um here's the crazy story about Law and Order. Um when I okay, it's gonna be really crazy, and I'm maybe saying too much, but I'm gonna say it. Um so way back in the day, I did a I dated a Dina for a minute. Okay, and I knew I'm probably saying way too much, but I'm gonna say it. She had a roommate um who eventually became a casting director. And this was years later. Like this woman out of nowhere called me and she said, Hey, Jesse, I'm a casting director now. Do you remember me? And I was like, Yeah, of course I remember you. Uh and she said, uh, Ben Bratt, Benjamin Bratt, was leaving Law and Order, and my name was on a short list.

And I was like, really? And so at the time I was in Los Angeles, do not love Los Angeles, but there I was working on Allie McBeal. Way back in the day. Yep. And I called my manager and I said, Hey, do you know Dick Wolf? He was like, No, but I could call him. What do you want to do? And I was like, Well, apparently there's a role on Law and Order that's opened up, and they have my name in mind.

[23:54] Jesse L. Martin: Let's go talk to this dude.

[23:57] Jesse L. Martin: So she told me about this. I sat in front of him and I said, Hey, I heard that Ben Bratt's leaving and I want this job. And he was like, How did you hear that? And I was like, I can't tell you. I can't tell you at all. Like I'm not supposed to know this, but he was like, Okay, well, uh, when you're done with your work here in LA, when you get back to New York, I'll sit you in a room with Jerry Orbach, and we'll see if you guys have any chemistry. And I was like, okay. Which didn't sound like I had a job, which I didn't like. And I get it. I remember getting in the car with my manager, and he was like, a lot of the studios are calling to see if you want a development deal. Um you could stay here and do these development deals.

Or I could call Dick Wolf and say, please make a decision before he takes another job. And he calls Dick Wolf and said, Look, this guy's got development deals here. And he wants to know what's up with Law and Order. And Dick was like, fine, you have the job. So I dropped everything and ran back to New York. And 200 episodes later. Yes. Yes, yes.

[25:24] Robert Bannon: Did you like some people say procedural shows are redundant or they're not, they don't stretch your ears that way?

[25:32] Jesse L. Martin: Well, it was also the blueprint of these things, right? Like, but I worked with some fantastic actors, Ashley Patha Merkison, still good friends to this day. Like, she could not have been cooler to me the whole time. Uh Sam Waterston, Jerry, of course. And then there were several people that came in, like, uh everybody on Broadway did Law and Order. Yeah. So we had guest stars that were phenomenal and knew exactly what they were doing. They would we literally have to work the schedule so they could get to, you know, call time, 7:30 at the theater. You know, Christine Baransky, Victor Garber, like all these powerhouses were on that show. So it was it could I I couldn't have asked for a better gig. It was fantastic.

[26:29] Robert Bannon: Do you enjoy it? You were talking about how much you enjoy Shakespeare. Do you enjoy television? It's telling it's a total different beast than theater, but do you like it?

[26:36] Jesse L. Martin: I do. Um it's exhausting, honestly. Um, because the schedule, like at least the schedule that I've had, um, is exhausting. Like you're filming 12, 14 hours a day. Um, I've gotten quite used to it. Um, and it's only when I have a break that I realize I'm tired. Yeah. It's only when I have a break that I realize I'm tired. Right now I'm not doing anything. I have some things in the fire, uh, but I'm not on that schedule right now. And I love it because I've never had a break before. Like my dog looks at me every day, it's like, what do we do today? I'm like, I don't know, whatever you want to do.

[27:22] Jesse L. Martin: Well, I know, but that's because you work. You gotta you put it if it's irrational, if it's if it's work that you have done uh that's out and about in television with the city. Let's talk about Percy Jackson for Please. We went to the premiere. We went to the person that the that cast is a smart, that's a smart them kids are no joke. Them kids are no joke. Um I'm I'm hoping, look, I know in the books my character has a is a big deal with the kids. So we'll see how that plays out. But I was amazed that they called me out of nowhere and were like, would you want to play this role? And I was like, okay, that sounds full. That sounds fun. I get there, and you know, I don't know if you've ever done a show with kids.

Like, like it's a mixed bag, right? It can be actually kind of hard sometimes. Usually because of the parents. But kids are kids. I get that. These kids are no joke. They're so good. They're so good. They're so on point with everything. That show is out. You could be watching it right now. Season two is out on Disney Plus. And um, I love it because I taught I teach elementary school. I taught for 20 years, and and Percy Jackson live, kids love it. It's it's something that you can share with your family. And uh you get to be a dad on the show, and how fun is that? Yeah, you won't even see me till the third season. So be ready for Jess. Yeah, be ready. Be ready.

[28:49] Robert Bannon: Can I ask you, not I don't want to say it's a controversial question, but what is there hard, what you were gonna be Marvin Gay, you were Marvin Gay. What's the story? Can you talk about it?

[28:58] Jesse L. Martin: Yeah. Um it's funny because for years I wouldn't talk about it because it was just a heartbreak. But um and you don't have to. No, it's okay. I I can. Um I got asked to do a version of the Marvin Gay story uh with a European company, uh, a production company out of Luxembourg, and they called me at the last minute because they were doing a production with Lenny Kravitz as Marvin Gay. And for whatever reason, Lenny just didn't want to do it. And they had all this, they had the whole movie set up, and they needed to keep going, and so out of nowhere they called me. And so with like two weeks to spare, I ran to Luxembourg and we did this started doing this movie um we got about halfway through filming I can't say names but some of our producers ran away with money and uh we never finished the film who I want to see that film so bad Jesse L. Martin because I know you sang that and acted that show damn that movie damn I I did the best I could do.

It was definitely one of those things where it was on my bucket list but I didn't know it was going to happen as soon as it did um and the cool thing about it was I got to work with some really really cool people on that show. I don't know if you know who Vicky creeps is and if you don't know who she is you should know she's a fantastic actor um uh what was I'm trying to think of a film that you might have seen her in um uh remember the Phantom Thread Yes she was the muse oh that movie is some wild ride don't eat those mushrooms Jesse L. Martin yeah um but Vicky was in the movie with me and I became really friendly with her family um there was a point where I stayed in Luxembourg for a really long time first of all trying to get the crew paid because they didn't get paid um trying to get the movie back on point and it just didn't happen.

[30:32] Jesse L. Martin: But I ended up hanging out with some really, really cool people. Um it's funny when things end, right? Like we're from the theater, right? So when a show ends, you all like you do a show, you literally fall in love with everybody. That's how shows work, right? Like you literally just get into a show and you're like, oh I fucking love everybody here. And then it ends. And you all say to each other, oh I'll miss you. Goodbye. When it comes to a television show or film, you're devastated when it ends. And I had to start to think about things in the way that I thought about theater. Which is like all things end. That thing with Marvin was heartbreaking. But I said to myself I still got to play him nobody saw it, but I still got to do it like every single day.

I was up in the morning singing these songs with some fantastic actors. Um that's that when we talk about the TV schedule that's the hardest part right now is like look I was doing my own show The Irrational and it got canceled and I was really bummed out about it. But then I thought if this was a play I wouldn't be so bummed I'd be like well we did it and it's over so that helped me sort of get over the that loss it's a it's a bitter we talk about rent being bittersweet the story is the the the business is a bittersweet business but I hope you know you know you took me out if I may speak you took me out um I did the interview with I did an interview if you watched it on Broadway World Everyone's him, who was the music director of rent, and I got a DM from Jesse L. Martin.

[33:23] Robert Bannon: Yeah.

[33:24] Jesse L. Martin: So sweet and so kind. And my favorite part of it was you said OBC, Tom Collins, and Rent. Like I didn't know. Like that you don't realize the impact your work has made. The humility, that the work, the amount of times I've listened to you all sing, or the amount of times I've sung along, or the amount of times I wanted when I'd got to be in it and sing these songs to live up to the bar that you all set. Or how many people are home sick from school or work or on a flight or on a plane or looking for comfort on a Saturday and watch you on Law and Order. I hope you and the all the work you've done, I hope you realize the impact that the time and energy and effort and the sacrifices you've given have made to all of us because it's it is it is a lot of joy and solace that you've given through your work.

[34:12] Jesse L. Martin: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Um hear me out on this one. I'd love that you have this forum because you get to say those things. And it's why I I sent you a message, because Tim Weill would never talk about himself ever. So when I saw this interview that you had with him, I'd already kind of knew who you were, like seen you interview other people. I was like, this guy's a cool guy. But there was Tim. And he got to talk about Tim shit. Like, Tim's a whole musical nerd. Nerd, nerd, nerd, nerd, nerd. The book's nerdy. I like it, but it's nerdy. Spot music. I'm not that guy. Uh and to be honest, like every single rent member has a book in them. And God help us if we all wrote those books.

[35:15] Jesse L. Martin: God help us. But I was super grateful that you brought Tim in and gave him a platform to talk about his experience because he wouldn't have done it otherwise. Also, let's just talk about Tim's wife. Excuse me? That's a girl. Mine too. Like, listen.

[35:40] Jesse L. Martin: Me, like one of the worst theater experiences I ever had was I was doing a show with Randy Graff. It was at Williamstown Shakespeare Fest. Williams Fest. Williamstown Theater Festival. We did a version of uh three penny opera. And I was playing my keys. All hell broke loose during that show. Our director at the time had a heart attack. Um he was trying to revamp some shit that he did in the 70s that nobody knew about. We didn't know because we were like, what is he doing? Didn't get it. So he literally had a heart attack in the middle of rehearsals and left. And so we didn't even have a director for a minute there. Worst stage experience I've ever had in my life. But there was Randy Graff. There was a couple other people on the show, like Betty Buckley was there.

Um who was amazing. Like Betty Buckley, it doesn't matter what's going on. That girl will just show up and blast everybody with some notes. Like she just blasts. But I became really tight with Randy. Um, we used to have, we used to get together and go to Walmart because I love going to Walmart. So we're just on our day off, we just go to Walmart and buy stupid shit and go have dinner. Um, so you know, when I saw you interviewing Tim, I wondered if Randy was just sitting right there and had you ever interviewed her.

[37:23] Robert Bannon: I have never you know, I've never had Randy, and I said to him when we were off there, can I ask you? Can I reach out to Randy? I love her, I love her, and I love them. Like they're there to be the cutest little couple in real life ever because they're just cute as a button. That whole thing happened during Rent. I remember her coming backstage, and we were like, ooh, we were like teasing Tim. We're like, ooh, I think she likes you. I think you like her too. Like before I knew it, before we knew it, they were an a thing, a whole thing. Well, the uh the book is fantastic, and if you're into that, if you're into that life and you want to know about about the behind the scenes, the nerdy music of it all, which is what I was talking to him about.

And I can't tell you, my rent head friend Mike, who when I got the audition and botched it badly, like really badly, that I changed my I left Juilliard to go to become a school teacher because of that audition. The show has chased me to when I was 33, did it, came out, faced the show, changed my life. My friend Mike had a VHS bootleg of someone in the audience who took a camcorder to the show. Wow. And we fed, and he only saw like a sliver of the stage because it was in his pocket, and I watched it. Now he have YouTube. But back then I was like, I'm not gonna learn. How do I find the words? He was like, we're gonna write them down from the VHS tape bootleg that I bought on the black market, the rent bootleg black market VHS tape.

Um I lost this tape. I I wish I hope he still has it. Where is the tape? I want to see which random show it was that he had me too. Um it changed, it changed it changed all of our lives. So from to from Jonathan to Tim to Michael to you all, and I I can't believe it's 30. I'm 42, so that makes sense. It's 30 years.

[39:19] Jesse L. Martin: Yeah, man. So when you sum it up and you look back to those years and and your friendship with everyone that's still in the show that has done the show with you and and the way that it's done around the world, like how how do you sum it up? How do you think about what is the what is the memory? What is the thought, the feeling?

[39:36] Robert Bannon: Well, honestly, it keeps living. Yeah, it keeps living. There's no end in the story, like it just keeps going. Um I love the fact that this show shows up in parts of the world where you don't expect to see it. Um I I had a uh I was on the subway in New York City. This is this had to be like more than 10 years ago now. Um, and I met this Israeli family, and they knew who I was, mostly from Law and Order, but one of the kids in the family, he was like Tom Collins. He kept saying Tom Collins, and I was like, yeah, I'm that guy. And they told me that they were playing seasons of Love on the buses in Israel because it kept everybody calm. And I was like, wait, what? For real? They're like, yeah, we know Seasons of Love because they play it on the bus.

[40:36] Jesse L. Martin: What? See, but now people do it's a Christmas song now. It's a it's a choir song. It's a it's a wedding song. It's a wedding Christmas song. It's a funeral song. Absolutely. Listen, people have asked me, which is wild. People have asked me to sing, I'll cover you at weddings and funerals. See? And what do you say? Back up your bank, but give me a check. No. No, no, no. Unless they're really tight with me, I'm I'm not the guy. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna show up and just be random at your wedding. Um if you're tight with him, he'll do it while he's vacuuming his house, apparently.

[41:17] Robert Bannon: I will, you're right. If I can bring my dog, I'm coming. Okay, okay. It's all about my dog these days. So for you now, you're you're you're you're taking a moment, you're your your home, you're somewhere that looks beautiful and and trees.

[41:34] Jesse L. Martin: This this is Vancouver. Beautiful. Um look, you can see the water back there. And you get to hang up in Vancouver, yeah, been there for a year, a few years, for years, many years, actually. Um, I I have been working here for almost 13 years, solid. Um, doing The Flash, doing the irrational. There's a whole other show that I'm developing right now that's probably gonna take place here. Um, one of the things, and I will revisit you when this happens. I'm gonna bother you about it now, but I want to be the Anthony Bourdain of Arts and Culture, so I'm going around the world and meeting artists. I don't care what you do, whether you're a singer, a painter, a potter, you know, and a chef, even um, I'm going around the world to sit down and talk to you about what you do and how you got there.

[42:30] Robert Bannon: That is because we all know artists live some crazy lives.

[42:34] Jesse L. Martin: Yes. And come from some crazy spaces. You and their good time, good talk. Yes, yes. So that's my big project right now.

[42:44] Robert Bannon: I'm here for it. I'm I want to root for it. I want to talk about it, I want to watch it. I need to know everything. I I'm just so grateful. It it was um one of the greatest. I can't tell you my group text with my theater friends when I heard from you, it it really took me um by surprise. It was one of the most beautiful, humble, sweet, generous things that have ever happened to me in a thousand episodes of this show.

[43:08] Jesse L. Martin: That's nice, man. That's really nice. And um, it it moved it really moved me. And um, the fact that you're here and you spent this time with me uh is so so incredibly um beautiful and grateful for me. It's a it's a highlight, and I can't thank you enough for it.

[43:23] Robert Bannon: I feel the same, man. Listen, uh I think what you're doing is is actually really important, and you can move the needle in ways that like bigger entities like uh news organizations or or whatever can't move the needle the way you can move the needle now. And I hope you know that.

[43:46] Jesse L. Martin: Thank you. I'm trying to move things. Um and somebody should be paying you a lot of money to do this.

[43:53] Robert Bannon: Well, from your mouth to God to God. Let's go. We're gonna get there. Somebody better pay you because you deserve it. Like your attention to detail is fantastic. Your need to talk to everybody involved is fantastic.

[44:12] Jesse L. Martin: It's fantastic. Like, listen, since I saw you interview Tim, I've gone back and looked at what you've done. You have such a fantastic interest in all of all things show. People are we need it. We need it. And somebody, listen, if I owned a studio or network, I'd hire you. I'd be like, pay that guy a lot of money so that he keeps talking about theater the way he talks about theater. Keeps meeting these people the way he meets these people. Because it's super important. It's super super important. Like when I was living in New York, remember uh New York one had like on stage type things with like Romato Romatory and whatever. Guess what? They were amazing, but you're better at this. You're better at this and have more experience at this point than they did. So somebody come pay you.

[45:20] Robert Bannon: I'm gonna put this when you come to my when you come to my YouTube channel. When you come to Broadway World, this is what it's gonna say. Listen, pay pay me. Pay him. Listen, if look, if I find some money and I'm coming over that way, I'll give you some money. All right, but like somebody should pay you.

[45:37] Jesse L. Martin: Well, um the the best is yet to come. That's what I always say at the end of every episode, because I truly feel that. We got a lot of work to do, we have a lot of stories to tell, and I'm I'm just very grateful uh you know this all happened so randomly for me during COVID when I was bored and I'm gonna take the bullet the horn well whatever the expression is we're gonna go by the horns we're gonna go we're gonna see that's why I can't do Shakespeare word perfect but I'm gonna we're gonna take the bull by the horns and we're just gonna run and and I'm so fascinated by people and incredible people and when I tell that story about rent and being afraid at 18 years old and stopping I want to talk to the person who wasn't I want to talk to the person who went and flew and and changed culture and took the risk and took the chance to work at the diner to meet Jonathan Larson to be on Broadway to to be a movie star and TV star and and change the needle in your in the way that you did that is what keeps me energized and keeps me going and gives me faith in humanity when there's not much left around here that's a whole nother episode right as a I'll come back next week maybe.

[45:41] Robert Bannon: Well I want you to be Anthony Bourdain I want you to uh I want you to continue to know how much you mean I want you to say tumbleweeds and prairie dogs for me I want I want I want to um continue to watch you do what you do and thank you and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your words and um and for being here with me.

[46:59] Jesse L. Martin: Thank you so much I really really appreciate it it's very it's wonderful thank you thank you thank you now I got your number so I'm just come on I'm gonna text you man and be like you see this or I want that I'm you're stuck with me what now you're my I'm I'm gonna make you my friend now we we friends now.

[47:16] Robert Bannon: Okay, come on, friend.