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[0:09] Robert Bannon: Well, welcome to the round table, everybody. My name is Robert Bannon. You're listening to us on Broadway World over here on the Broadway Podcast Network, iHeart, and Spotify. I have to say that there's a theater company that I absolutely love in New York City, and WP Theater, which is WPTheater.org, is such an incredible place, especially where we need representation, we need voices, we need new works, we need amazing actors. And there just so happens to be a show playing called The Waterfall. And what are we gonna find out all about it? Patrice Johnson and Natalie Paul, you've seen them on TV, you've seen them on stage. Now they're gonna be in the middle of New York City coming to you. Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.

[0:52] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: Thank you so much for having us.

[0:55] Natalie Paul: Thank you.

[0:57] Robert Bannon: Let's go. So, Natalie, before we get started, like we talk about the show in particular. Natalie, when I see you based in New York City and the work that you've done, like The Center, like The Deuce, like all of this television work, and coming from Yale and NYU and Tisch and all that fancy dancey stuff. What's it mean to be back on stage in New York?

[1:21] Natalie Paul: Gosh, I love that question. It feels really, really good. I really missed it. I didn't know how much I missed it, and all the differences between TV and theater are so delicious. I mean, every show we do is different, you know. Every day is different, and getting to be in the moment in front of an audience that is listening, it's thrilling. It's so much fun, and it's a great challenge, you know. The two of us for 90 minutes or so, just going back and forth in the highs and the lows and the intimacy and the distance. It's amazing. I can't complain. But yeah, in comparison to TV, it's a world of difference, but it's one I needed. I definitely did.

[2:14] Robert Bannon: Incredible, the two of you, oh my goodness. Patrice, before I ask you about this show, I have to ask you, one of the most moving episodes of television that this little gay boy has ever seen in his life is your episode of Pose. And you being in Pose and playing Candy's mom. And Angelica has been here on the show multiple times with Miss Ross herself. What's it mean for you to be able to play some characters you believe in, some characters you don't? They say things you believe in, sometimes they have different beliefs than you. But as an actor, you bring that and tell incredible stories. What's your journey been like? What can you say about that role and your journey to this moment?

[3:03] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: So I'll say regarding that role, that was amazing. And Angelica Ross and the entire cast, and Ryan Murphy on that project, and my theater background absolutely helped me in that. We did that, I think, in two takes. But my preparation for television being repeat, repeat, repeat, I just held it as a theater actor, knowing they might ask me to do this like five more times or ten more times. But what was interesting about that, that was a beautiful marriage of theater and film because the church pews were filled with an audience. Normally you don't have an entire audience for TV, but because it was the funeral, everybody was sitting there, Billy. Uh, everybody, right? And when I met Angelica in the makeup room, we said hello, and she heard my voice, and she said, "That's my mother."

Wow. And then the first line I say is, "What kind of name is Candy?" And then she said, "I don't want to watch her anymore. I want to experience this when I meet her on stage." She said, "I know she's gonna bring it." And we indeed brought it. It was such a special episode. I saw the DP crying; I heard it in the room. I could hear it; it was so amazing. And playing a mother, you know, this is a mother in The Waterfall, that was a mom in Pose, and opening to the diversity of opinions of folks of a certain age, and then the divide of the next generation. To me, those are the parallels of both of those, Pose and The Waterfall, the divides and how entrenched we can be. But then when you love your daughter, your son, you then the key line in The Waterfall is, "I really love you.

I don't understand you, but I want to." And I think that was the same parallel of both of those, for a parent to get to the point where I want to understand you. That's so needed in every family, no matter where you live and who you are. We all are trying to understand each other. I'm still trying to understand my mother and father, but that's a whole nother show.

[4:27] Robert Bannon: So Natalie, for you, working for this theater company in particular, WP Theater, New York's longest organization that is women-run theater at every step. I mean, you have a woman playwright, a woman director, you, the cast, the people that work there. We need that representation, and women's voices need to be heard. So, what does that mean to you as part of the mission for this piece?

[4:27] Natalie Paul: Oh my gosh, it was such a beautiful, safe room to play in. And filled with just experience and knowledge. Working with Taylor was incredible. She's so smart, so smart and so open to what we came to the table with. And the way that she's sort of stitched this whole production together from the design to our performances, Finesia's beautiful words. I mean, she is masterful, and Finesia, of course, who brought this story that is, you know, from her experience and also speaking to motherhood, which she has not, or sort of, you know, the question around motherhood. And we all having our mother figures in the room with us too, right? Like we all brought in our personal stories, and I'm also Haitian American.

So I was able to bring some of that to the room. And just knowing that this story is being told in an authentic way by women, maybe potentially speaking to women. And you know, everyone else is, of course, included and invited, but it's that specificity and that authenticity that I think makes the play that much more universal, right? Like when we invest in the people that are uniquely equipped to tell these kinds of stories, it's better for everybody else. It because then you get the truth of the matter, and you then see something about yourself that you may not have known. So I think just that mission of WP is brilliant because we need more women, directors, designers, stage managers, and of course, you know, writers and actors and directors.

All of that is so important to telling the truth on stage and on screen and wherever else, because I think that's what we come to stories for: to be educated, to be revealed, to have an emotional experience that's true. And I think authenticity helps shepherd all of those experiences too.

[8:36] Robert Bannon: What a special show! Take your person, your mother, your family, your partner, your friends, go see it. Start first only. So you got to get your tickets, WPTheater.org. What I love so much about WP Theater is that A, you're right there on 76th and 77th Street. So go have dinner, go have a little drink, go have a moment, and then you get to name your own price. It's making theater accessible to people. So there are tickets for as little as $20. There are no tickets more than $100. So you'll be able to see the show. You're not, you know, because what happens, Patrice, is sometimes we want to see something, and then we look at the prices and it's $350. I don't have $700. So I tell people that tickets are as low as 20, and that's impressive to me. You know, that we can say, I can say to my friends, I can say to people they're at 20, snatch those 20 tickets up, you know, but the range is there for the support as well.

[9:30] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: So I've never worked at the WP before, and I love this organization. I love this was a womb that we created in and birthed this beautiful play, the incubation. Our stage managers, Cassie and Nina, women in the room are, I mean, the kind of love and support. Lisa, Lisa is just amazing. Lisa's like a mother shepherding the first day we came, and we're in the theater, she was like, "Do you guys have beds? Do you have, let me make sure that you have the places to recline? Have you eaten?" I mean, seriously, that's really an amazing energy, you know, and the organization she's helped to support, you know. I just want to also say that my last name, Chivan, is, so it's Patrice Johnson Chivan, and I was born in Jamaica, but I now understand my family history that Chivan is by way of Haiti after the revolution when many French-speaking families jumped to wherever they could go: Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, and didn't realize the revolution was here to stay and they would never come back.

[11:03] Natalie Paul: Yeah.

[11:04] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: So as my mom, we were looking for our family history. We always knew our name, but then I understood the background and meanings. So then I held it and I use it to call family and to own history. And let me just say too, I am first generation. My mother has a very heavy accent as well. And you know, she's been here for a while, but she has an accent and Patrice nails it. And it's so hard to, and also not just the accent, right? But just the whole energy and the vibe. And I just, my mom came to a show recently, and she told Patrice, she was like, "You got it, you nailed it." And I just want to commend that because, you know, she poured, she speaks Creole in this, you know, and she's learning a language while portraying this beautiful major.

I mean, I just have to give it up to you and publicly thank you for taking this character so to heart because, you know, we've seen some representations of Haitians that are not so accurate, but Patrice, gosh, you, you know through that name, girl, you did that. So I just think that it's just such a gift to share the stage with Patrice.

[12:36] Natalie Paul: Oh my gosh, just wonderful.

[12:38] Robert Bannon: Listen, you gotta see, you could tell, you could tell. They're in awe and loving the relationship that they have built together on stage. You gotta get out to get where they were talking about Lisa, Lisa, the producing artistic director of the WP and the incredible team there trying to hopefully take care of you all actors because you're sharing this. So Natalie, for you, tell me about Bean. Who is she? What is the conflict here at this story?

[13:01] Natalie Paul: Bean is a Haitian American woman living in Miami. She's a lawyer, and this play is really about, and so after her mother is hospitalized, she returns home. So it's sort of a prodigal daughter story. And, you know, after she returns home and spends some time there, it gives their relationship an opportunity to be worked out in such a way. And Bean has a few decisions that she's grappling with, and she's really looking toward her mother to see, you know, she's being challenged by her mother about her choices, and we find out, you know, what she makes of it, but it's really about someone who is looking for her purpose, looking for what makes her tick, what makes her feel alive. And for many, I think, first-generation people of all nationalities, this question of like your double culture plays a lot into that idea of purpose.

[14:10] Natalie Paul: You know, you know. Um, I know I've experienced that as well. It's just something about um learning more about where you came from in terms of where you think you might go. And so um, so those two things, just her womanhood, her grappling with the idea of motherhood and her identity and her culture and where she fits into it. She's is she Haitian enough? Is she American enough? Is she what is she, you know? And I think she's trying to figure that out. Um, you know, in this play, and because you know, some you know, time is of the essence. She's got to figure this out because she doesn't want to live the rest of her life not knowing who she is. So um I think that that's what Bean represents, and uh, she represents so much to me.

Um I I I said during rehearsal that uh, you know, learning about Bean is a bit of a funny mirror for me. You know, we have a lot in common and a lot not in common. So it there was this sort of Venn diagram that I was drawing. Um, but I think there's definitely a large part of that. And you know, we our hearts kind of overlap, and um, where they don't has been a huge has been a huge artistic fulfillment for me too. Like, so um, yeah, Bean is a special human, and and she's made that much more special by her relationship and and just seeing seeing how these two women need each other. I think your people will really enjoy that part, that sort of push and pull. And be moved for sure. So I I can't wait.

I I love that you this is my question. I was gonna ask if you feel really relate to her. So thank you for sharing that. I I love it. And Patrice, it's Emmy, right? Is that the character's name? So who is she? Tell me about it.

[16:06] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: Uh Emmy is the mom who um knocks down every boundary. You will try to uh she will come in your room, she will smell, she will, she will be in your business out of love, out of love and trying to get you going in the right direction. And so I think that I thematically, one of the Emmy is a mom who is from Haiti, who um braved Haiti has been villainized, um uh literally on in history for their audacity to um to uh throw off their slave masters, and uh it's been systematic, political, whatever, everything. And so um Emmy, even for this play is about a lot of people who can't go home, can't go home but have the love of their culture. It's very um yin yang for for Emmy, but the opportunities in America, the opportunities to work your ass off, uh which is the parallel.

How do I find her? Because my mom worked her ass off. Uh, my generations, and they come in, they they work um and buy their homes and they dream another life for the next generation. And um, I'm an actor. My mom, my mom. This is not in the picture for coming to America. You don't do that. You become a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer. You you do that, but here it is, that's part of the divide of this play, is that you come from another place, and the only dream you have is the route you are on. So to come to America and your children choose to paint, choose to be uh um a video uh person, you know, who designs this. This is not in your purview of careers that will um support you, and part of the insistence on those careers is because you want your children to stand, you don't want them to struggle for money in this country, you want them to go to the next level.

So Emmy's love is what pushes her daughter, and then when her daughter jumps outside, just like I think every immigrant American can understand when they jump outside of the norm, it's mind-boggling. Like I don't understand you, and um, and uh, you know, uh some people, and you're trying because love, love is the biggest glue. These um, these two women love each other, and it's the biggest glue for the schism. That's what I love so much. It takes that big of a love for you to go through the to the depths, you know, and also make it out on the other side. But you don't, you don't you don't go to war with someone like that unless it's it's a big love. And I think that's what Vanessa has written, you know, she's written this relationship that is so um beautiful and and full of love. And so um that gave us a lot to play with because we just knew we knew we were we were bound by that, you know, no matter how much we have to go at it, we're still also in that love.

[20:06] Robert Bannon: Yeah. This is gonna be a special show, everybody that you definitely have to check out and see. So Natalie, who should go see the show? Who who do you recommend goes and checks this out, buys a ticket?

[20:18] Natalie Paul: Other than everybody, everybody, everyone, everyone. I mean, you know, we we worked we worked hard on this. We wanted this to be an experience that speaks to the human heart above all. Um, but it is also the for the people for the first generation Americans out there that um that struggle with that biculturalism, you know, that you know, who am I who how do I stay myself and also uh true to my roots? You know, how can I be part of this beautiful culture and contribute to it, but yet also have an individual voice. And I think that is again, I think that's that's universal for all of us. I mean, I think some of us, you know, I I I feel like this is also for the black sheeps of the family, the one that went off script, um, the one that's not quite understood on her face, you know.

So I I think about those people, and I do think about Haitians. I think about um the actual Haitian immigrants that are in our city right now that are on TPS, that um thank God just recently that was extended, and so they're able to stay that much longer. Um, not just to see the play. But you know, um, so I think about them, I think about their dreams um and their children's dreams. Um, and so yes, starting with, you know, it's definitely for those people, and and of course, rippling outwards to anyone who can understand what it's like to be to feel lost, to want to know who you are, and to forge your own path. This is an um yeah, well, also loving this this is an this is an American play. This is an American story, it is very, very specific written specific to Haitians, but it is so specific to America and immigrants. This is also a diaspora diaspora story.

[22:31] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: I was about to say diasporic, but maybe I don't know that word in my because um whether your family has moved to um London, to uh uh, you know, France, to wherever in the world is that you have moved for, quote unquote, the the better opportunity for your children. And then when your children get there and now spread wide, what that divide is. We have met people from South Africa. We've met people from literally all over the world that are they are not Haitian, but they understand the difference between the generation of parents who hold the best for them and the freedom and choice that they um they can have. And so it is an American. I I say this above because America is in a country of immigrants.

This is an American story. Vanessa has never even been to Haiti. So this is also a love story for her and um uh uh an honoring of her ancestors, and the fact that this is also uh a play that is as Natalie says, part of who is in the people's are in this that the character of of Bean gets to hold to and Emmy for their strength is their ancestors. That's a huge character in this grandma, great grandma, uh going further, that we are who we are and uh in our strength in our core, if we can understand and own and have pride in our lineage. I don't care where you're from. That's what this story is.

[24:35] Robert Bannon: Absolutely. If you're not sold now, I don't know how you're gonna be sold. You better go get a ticket. You better get a ticket, you better find a seat. You only have until March 1st. You better go, you better go get a ticket right now. As you can see, these they all are acting and telling stories way deeper than what's on stage. And no matter where you're from, especially in these times where we need to talk about immigrants and their contribution to this country, no matter where you're from, no matter if it's Europe, Asia, South America, North America, Africa, Australia. We all are come from some lineage of immigrants, and they all come here. And then you see the divide between the people that have come here and then the Americanized children and the generations and what that means. I see it in my classroom. We all see it across the country.

[25:19] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: Absolutely. I had a friend of mine who was Italian American, and he completely understood what was going on.

[25:24] Robert Bannon: Are you Italian American?

[25:25] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: My grandfather came here from Italy when he was 18. My parent, my mom was born here, and I saw their dynamic through the years of like him losing her to Americanism and then wanting to hold on to the traditions that he came with and the values of being Italian. It's it's universal. And gosh, if you have a mom come see this play, because that that relationship to the intimacy, like you said, the violation of boundaries. Um I think that's also really fun to see to make that private public on stage to like render that is so exciting for me because it's it's just it reminds me that we're we are really truly all connected in that way. Um, and that we're all sort of deserving of at least trying to understand each other, you know, and you know, trying to understand each other to our parents but and each other, you know, in in the world.

[26:26] Natalie Paul: I say this is also uh it's a wonderful opportunity for both of us as actors to do a two-hander, as Natalie says in 90 plus minutes. My two of my nieces came last night, and um they were basically going, it feels like that there were more people on stage. Oh, uh Bean's fiance, my uh this, my she's just kept saying it. Oh, that the somebody's gonna come into the hospital room. Oh, oh, because it feels she's Vanessa's created a world that you can feel the outskirts of it. You can see it, and and it's very palpable. So um it's it feels like there are more people on stage than the two of us. But but this is a beautiful ride from beginning to end.

[27:24] Robert Bannon: Well, WP Theater.org, get your tickets. You have it to March 1st. Congratulations to you both. We're so excited for this incredible journey. We want you to all get your tickets and come on and see the show. Come, please come, please. Waterfall. Congratulations, thank you. Break legs, have the most amazing run and enjoy every single second of it. Natalie and Patrice, thank you for being here.

[27:48] Patrice Johnson Chevannes: Thank you so much.