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[0:06] Robert Bannon: It's the round table with me, Robert Bannon. Well, how excited and honored am I to be here with this father-son duo that is out here just creating the music and the movies and the Broadway shows of our entire history or life? Do you know how many of my friends have geeked and nerded out about this evening and this interview? Thank you both so much for being here. It's wonderful.

[0:29] Richard O’Brien: Thanks, Robert.

[0:30] Linus O’Brien: Pleasure.

[0:31] Robert Bannon: So, Linus, have you met this one over here? Have you, uh, have Richard? Have you ever met this guy over here before?

[0:37] Linus O’Brien: Oh, yeah. Sure, once or twice. They look familiar.

[0:40] Robert Bannon: Well, congratulations. I love this duo working together. So, Linus, when did the idea come? I read in some notes you have a documentary. The documentary was out, it's coming back out. You originally didn't want to direct this. You wanted somebody else to deal with dad.

[0:55] Linus O’Brien: And, uh, no, no, I, it was, I don't think that was the case. I think, uh, when I spoke to the producers first, I was like, "Well, I have this idea for a documentary. What do you think about it?" Um, and then, and not necessarily thinking that I would direct it, and then the next thing I knew, uh, they made me the director. So, uh, and then I, when I thought about it, I was like, "Well, it kind of makes sense to f because I know so much about the history. I had a, you know, firsthand, uh, look at it, you know, through my years." So, yeah, I then I felt like I was the only person to direct it. So, yeah, it all worked out for the best.

[1:34] Robert Bannon: Richard, how did you feel when he came to you and he said, "Let's make a documentary?" I know a lot of people want to talk to you. You have one of the most iconic and interesting, unique once-in-a-trillion lifetime stories. What was it like when he wanted to talk to you and you to share your story with him?

[1:51] Richard O’Brien: Well, yeah, but we've always been, uh, had open conversations. It's, um, so we kind of knew what we were doing. The joy of having Linus at the tiller of this particular boat was I knew that it was in safe hands. Uh, we were, uh, we were obviously, because of the 50 years and because of the phenomenon and because of the, uh, the fact that it's the longest running movie in cinema history, all those kinds of things. Uh, overtures came from other companies wanting to, you know, make a documentary on the 50 years. But having Linus, uh, in that position, uh, I felt much, I had a lot of relief because I wouldn't know what the other people were going to do. But with Linus, I knew it was in safe hands. So that was all there was to it, really.

[2:45] Robert Bannon: Well, before we get into more of this, I just want to let people know that *Strange Journey: The Story of Rocky Horror* is being re-released. It's gonna be in a whole bunch of cities. You can check it out on Instagram, you can listen to the trailer, and then you can April 24th at Alamo Draft House in New York, and then April 29th in LA. You know, Linus will be there, but there they'll be having Q&As, you'll have a whole bunch of conversations, you'll be celebrating this film. It's the perfect time, Linus. The show is back on Broadway. The show is playing at a midnight theater somewhere in the world every single weekend. How about the timing of this? How does it feel?

[3:18] Linus O’Brien: Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, it's the 50-year anniversary of the midnight screenings at the Waverly. It's the third return to Broadway at Studio 54, and the documentaries all are coming out as well. So, yeah, uh, another chance to celebrate *Rocky* and the community and connection that it's provided to so many people over the years.

[3:40] Robert Bannon: Richard, I don't know how to. It's old hat. I know you're just, it's old hat now. Uh, *Rocky*'s around 50 years. It's just part of your life. And I know you tell the story all the time. And but what did it, was it like when this, like you came up with this crazy idea? My husband just saw it for the first time this past October in Detroit. He came home and he said they were yelling about a tan, someone was a slut, there was toilet paper, and we loved it. We had a blast, a good old time. How do you describe 50 years of this madness still as crazy and popular as ever?

[4:18] Richard O’Brien: I don't get it. I truly don't get it. Yeah, because it's a joy. The fact that it ever went on in the first place, uh, is extraordinary because it's, um, it is an unlikely, uh, kind of piece, um, to get mounted in the first place. Um, I only had a, I only had a few songs. I had about, uh, half a dozen songs, I suppose, uh, and a little bit of script when I, when I first, uh, when Jim Sharman first came around to my house. He brought, uh, Richard Hartley, the, uh, the musical director with him, uh, because I was doing a, I was doing a Sam Shepard play at the Royal Court Theater called *The Unseen Hand*, and Richard had been supplying some music to that, and we'd sing around the piano before the curtain went up and to the audience.

And so I got to know Richard, and we liked the same kind of music. We listened to the same hit parades through our lives and enjoyed that. Um, so we got on very well together. Um, but even so, you know, I, when they came around, he was very, Richard was very reluctant to turn up. He got to said, "Oh no, not another rock musical. Oh no, not another rock musical." He went, "Oh dear." And so I, when they got round, I sang *Science Fiction/Double Feature*. I think probably certainly twice, maybe three times that night for some reason or other. Jim wanted to hear it again. Um, and I, and they went away. And about a week later, I got a phone call from Jim, and he said, "They've asked me to do another play downstairs at the Royal Court.

And I've said, I will, but I want to have three weeks' fun upstairs first. You're on." So I need, you know, more songs, and we'll, you know, by the end of the week, you know, more of everything. And that was it, basically. That was how it kicked off. Um, and, um, uh, lots of the songs were written in rehearsal, well, several of them. Um, and it just, uh, was lovely. Um, the fun, the delight running through the theater, doing that, looking back on the rehearsals upstairs during the day, and, uh, and it was right at the top of the building. But there's a, uh, stand-up piano, and people would be singing the songs, learning the songs around the stand-up piano. And I walked down the stairs through the theater, and the smiles were from ear to ear on everybody.

It bought everybody was happy, it brought happiness into the theater. Instead of we got into a serious piece of theatre here, and everybody getting worked up about, you know, an intent. Here was people just having fun, and it permeated its way through the building and hit the audiences the same way. The people having fun. Let's join in the fun. Let's, um, after opening night, as you probably know, Vincent Price was sitting in the middle of the audience, and like 62 other people, 61 other people, and, uh, and there was an electrical storm and, um, the lightning flashed and lit him up in the middle of this audience. You know, no, this is gorgeous. Uh, surviving. Kismet. That is, and now 50 years plus later, it's still delighting audiences. People are still leaving. My cousin just saw it at the roundabout over at, uh, at Studio 54 and had the best time ever.

[8:03] Robert Bannon: Linus, for you, what was it like growing up with the dad? Like, when did people in school, did they know? Did you tell them? Did they come in singing *Time Warp* to you? When did you discover he was something special?

[8:17] Linus O’Brien: Uh, I don't know. I mean, it's probably, I mean, I don't know about, I've, I remember going to Dad took a very small role in *Flash Gordon*. Uh, I think specifically just because I was of that age, right? Where I was like probably six or seven or eight, and so, you know, he took the role and then took me to the set to meet, um, Timothy Dalton and Sam Jones, and so yeah, it was lovely to, yeah, I knew that was special, and we'd go see some previews sometimes, you know, film previews, and that felt special. So, but yeah, it was, if the funniest, uh, funniest instance of it was when, uh, I'd gone to school somewhere else, a boarding school, and I'd come back and Dad had done, uh, the *Crystal Maze*, this English TV show game show which got very popular on Channel Four.

And so it used to be, you know, um, strange characters who used to come up to us and say hello, I want autographs. But then we were walking down the high street and this, I don't know, four-year-old, five-year-old boy came up with his mum wanting an autograph, and I was like, "Okay, so things have shifted a little bit here." So it was nice to see in a new audience, but yeah, it's just when you, when that's your life, that's all you know, that's how it is. It, uh, I think it seems strange from the outside looking in. They think it's like the Adams family or something, uh, but yeah, it's just a regular, regular family life really.

[8:53] Richard O’Brien: So yeah, that's an interesting way to put it. You guys are like the Osbournes before the Osbournes or the Munsters, not really, but like the opposite of that. So Richard, for you, go ahead.

[10:16] Richard O’Brien: I don't get it. I don't get it. Were you scared of, like, was there pressure, was there fear when this became a big giant phenomenon for you?

[10:16] Richard O’Brien: Not at all. Not at all. No, I just keep—I’ve always been one of those people because I'm a high school dropout, you know, and I'm one of those people. I've always been waiting to get caught out, you see, by anybody. Aha, yeah, found you, discovered you, you know, you're not very clever, are you? Uh, you know, so I've always lived in fear of being found out that I have very little to offer. So I believe the imposter syndrome of it all, but you—it's, uh, I think you're gonna stick around. I think it's gonna be successful. I think it's gonna work out. Okay.

[11:06] Linus O’Brien: What is the film about? What at the heart of this is that you have some of the most iconic movie stars of all time. You have one of the most famous properties of all time. You have one of the most famous musical movies of all time. What is the story that you're telling that we don't already know? What are we gonna discover?

[11:21] Linus O’Brien: I mean, it's basically what I said before at the beginning is that it's the community connection fostered around Rocky Horror. And what's been fascinating for when it got released the first time in September, and hopefully it will happen again on the re-release, is that you have three generations of shadow cast members meeting each other. So you have 70-year-old people who were in shadow cast in their 20s when it first came out, and you have teenage shadow cast members who've been in it for like six months or a year and a half, and they're sharing the stories together when they're gonna see the documentary about the film. So that's really what it's about. It's about community and connection for everyone, you know, it's been great for the LGBTQ community, but it's also for heterosexual people who just feel a bit different and a bit outside of society. And so for them to meet each other at the screenings, it's been a real thrill and added bonus for us, really, and for them.

[12:23] Robert Bannon: I love that. We've had here in the past, we had Nell here, and we've had Patricia here, we had Barry here. He ate a Frankfurter and talked about Frankenfurter right here on this show in the past. So with this show, Richard, when you hear from people and this goes on, what's it like when people see you, they come up to you? This has meant something to them and made them feel like community. You have shadow casts that have been doing this show at midnight at movies. Was that a trick? How did you feel about that at the beginning, by the way?

[12:57] Richard O’Brien: Yeah, I loved it. I love the idea. Um, and I love the thought because the truth of the matter is we used to—I used to go to the late-night double features back in the late 50s, very early 1960, 1959, 1960, 61. I used to inhabit the late-night theater, the double features. Um, and we used to—the being way-faced juice, um, gauky youngsters, you know, shout, you know, what we thought was silly lines, funny lines at the screen, and yuck yuck yuck our heads off, you know. Um, and here we are with a show that's been built on the memories of the double feature, going to the double features with the audience doing the same thing that we did in a different manner, in a much more organized fashion. It's a bit strange, isn't it? It's rather wonderful.

[13:50] Richard O’Brien: It is. It's just a jump to the left, and then everyone get up and do it. You know, you know it, you've seen it, you've all been there. So Linus, for everyone that's watching that feels nostalgic, they can see it how? How are we gonna be able to see? We could see it in the live events that you're having, but then is there a way for us to see it at home? Is there a way to see it nationally? How can we be a part of this celebration?

[14:13] Linus O’Brien: Well, yeah, it's gonna be—it's rolling out into theaters, starts in New York, then goes to LA and kind of spreads all over the country. We're in about 50 theaters at the moment, and hopefully it grows because I think that there's a real appetite to see something that, you know, we've had a great response to the movie. Uh, I—you know, documentaries don't really get shown in theaters. And so when we were going on the festival circuit, the response to it, the cheering, the laughing, and the crying, even in the documentary, it was very unexpected to have that kind of an emotional response to it. So, uh, yeah, it's getting rolled out into theaters, and then it will go on VOD, video on demand, Apple, uh, Apple and Amazon in June, and then, uh, with another streaming service to follow. We're currently in discussions with a few people to figure out what's our best options. It's exciting. You can go to Instagram, Rocky Horror Documentary, you can find more information.

[15:10] Robert Bannon: You know, I want to say to you, Richard, thank you, because you know, now as a queer boy from Jersey, you know, a lot of representation, especially my brothers, sisters, and friends who are in the trans community, they never got to see representation, they never got to see themselves be seen on screen. And I don't know if you realize the impact you've had for the community and for people who feel like they need a place to belong. All of your thoughts, all of your jokes about what you've done and how it just came to be, it really means a lot to people. It's why it's lived so long, is because it makes people feel a part of something, and that's really special. So thank you.

[15:47] Richard O’Brien: No, it's like I'm the one—I'm the one that's privileged in that sense, uh, because it wasn't none of it was expected, you know, you just do what you would want, you do what you want to do. In fact, I've discovered in these conversations lately that we've been having with Linus and other people such as yourself is—and seeing the show again, is that the people have often asked me, you know, for advice for creative writing, for acting, you know, I—you get advice. Um, one of the things that's become clear to me is to be selfish. If you want to be—it's very difficult to find your own voice. People paint in the style of others, people write in the style of others, people write songs in the style. It's because nothing's developed in a vacuum, it has to come from somewhere.

But so finding your own voice, your own creative voice, which is original and yours, is very difficult. But if you're very selfish, like I was, I was only writing for myself because it didn't matter. Was anybody going to do it? I don't know. I'm just writing for myself to amuse myself, and I think that's probably the best advice I can give to anybody that wants to be creative is be selfish, because at least at the end of the day, or certainly the first day, somebody's gonna be happy, and that's you. Do you know what I mean?

[17:14] Robert Bannon: That's true. And then maybe there'll be 50 years' worth of other people happy. And the checks still come in the mailbox after 50 years, you know.

[17:21] Richard O’Brien: That makes—that makes me—that's another story.

[17:27] Robert Bannon: It's such an honor to talk to you both. Congratulations on this. Thank you so much for the work, for all the love. And, um, and here's to another 50 years of the incredible history of Rocky Horror. Thanks so much for being here.

[17:37] Richard O’Brien: Thank you, Robert. Really appreciate it so much.

[17:39] Richard O’Brien: Bye.