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[0:00] Susan Blackwell: The Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content.

[0:04] Laura Camien: Please use your discretion.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:14] Laura Camien: Spark file!

[0:19] Susan Blackwell: To be something that I want to make or how I wanna be, I pump it in my spark file.

[0:23] Laura Camien: Spark!

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark file.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: And I am Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:53] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:00] Susan Blackwell: But hold the phone.

[1:01] Laura Camien: You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:01] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:11] Laura Camien: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[1:16] Susan Blackwell: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:20] Laura Camien: And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:26] Susan Blackwell: So without further ado, let's open up the Spark File.

[1:34] Laura Camien: Welcome back.

[1:37] Susan Blackwell: Here we are, face to face.

[1:39] Laura Camien: A couple of silver spoons.

[1:42] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[1:43] Laura Camien: Welcome to season five.

[1:46] Susan Blackwell: What's up, season five?

[1:48] Laura Camien: The long-awaited season five, shall we say?

[1:51] Susan Blackwell: But we haven't just been sitting over here doing nothing.

[1:54] Laura Camien: We've been working so hard and trying to figure out when we could find the time to start season five.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: And guess what? It's happening.

[2:01] Laura Camien: Today's the day.

[2:03] Susan Blackwell: I'm very excited about it.

[2:05] Laura Camien: I started like I woke up this morning excited to share my spark, which is always a good sign.

[2:10] Susan Blackwell: Like, ah, I got something to do to share.

[2:13] Laura Camien: Yes.

[2:13] Susan Blackwell: And then also as the hour approached, I found myself getting those little like tiny bit of sweaty palms, tiny, like, I'm excited.

[2:13] Laura Camien: I'm excited.

[2:25] Susan Blackwell: I'm excited too.

[2:27] Laura Camien: I love it.

[2:27] Susan Blackwell: They're sweaty palms. That's the price of admission today.

[2:30] Laura Camien: But I believe in you.

[2:31] Susan Blackwell: And I'm excited to be on the receiving end of a piping hot sparkler came out.

[2:36] Laura Camien: I'm gonna give it to you, Suze.

[2:37] Susan Blackwell: I'm gonna give it to you.

[2:38] Laura Camien: Oh, wait. We should say, friends, you're gonna notice one very big difference in the Spark File.

[2:45] Susan Blackwell: Of course, of course.

[2:48] Laura Camien: We're gonna do some shorter episodes.

[2:50] Susan Blackwell: This is actually how we were able to say, you know what, let's not make it such a heavy lift.

[2:57] Laura Camien: It's part of how easy can it be? Let's do 20 minute or 30 minute episodes so we can get some sparks out there hot and fast and fresh and keep it moving, people.

[3:08] Susan Blackwell: It's a creative limitation and a challenge for two people who really do love to talk to each other.

[3:13] Laura Camien: If you need a longer episode, there's four prior seasons where we're talking for hours and hours at each other.

[3:20] Susan Blackwell: So you can dip into those.

[3:22] Laura Camien: Can I just say I know we're moving on and I'm gonna give you my spark, but I just want to say when we first first recorded the very first time, friends.

[3:32] Susan Blackwell: If you haven't heard this, we were like, gosh, I wonder if we'll have like an hour's worth of stuff to talk about together.

[3:39] Laura Camien: And we uh we talked for two plus hours and almost three, and we were like, well, I guess we don't need to worry about that.

[3:48] Susan Blackwell: And that has been true for the nearly 30 years that we've been friends.

[3:54] Laura Camien: So now we challenge ourselves with the opposite.

[3:58] Susan Blackwell: Can we stop talking?

[4:00] Laura Camien: Can that is the question?

[4:02] Susan Blackwell: We're about to find out.

[4:03] Laura Camien: But Susan Blackwell, let's get into it.

[4:05] Susan Blackwell: Here we go.

[4:06] Laura Camien: Suze, um, a while back I told you about a book that I read.

[4:10] Susan Blackwell: This book that blew my mind, and we have literally not had a moment to discuss it since.

[4:16] Laura Camien: I'm pretty sure you listened to it, but we didn't talk about it.

[4:21] Susan Blackwell: So, in my opinion, the whole thing is incredible.

[4:25] Laura Camien: There, but there's one concept in this book that stood out to me and sparked me so hard that it inspired my spark today.

[4:33] Susan Blackwell: I'm so excited.

[4:34] Laura Camien: This book is called Wellness.

[4:37] Susan Blackwell: It is a novel, it is absolute fiction.

[4:40] Laura Camien: The title sounds like it might be self-help or like your complete guide to overall wellness.

[4:45] Susan Blackwell: It's not that.

[4:46] Laura Camien: It's a novel, it's fiction, it's by Nathan Hill, and it's amazing.

[4:50] Susan Blackwell: It's a fantastic book.

[4:52] Laura Camien: It's a great listen.

[4:53] Susan Blackwell: I did listen to the audience.

[4:59] Laura Camien: Uh, pencil in hand, you know, underlining.

[5:02] Susan Blackwell: I know, little notes in the margins.

[5:04] Laura Camien: I can't help it, but I love I read a book is like an active experience for me.

[5:10] Susan Blackwell: Um, this book covers a lot of ground, if you recall.

[5:15] Laura Camien: It was like falling in love, uh, maintaining your independence, gentrification, the art scene in Chicago in the 90s, yeah, the culture of old New England money, the ecosystems of the American Midwest, parenting, conspiracy theories, algorithms, the culture of self-care and what we're willing to spend on our health and beauty.

[5:39] Susan Blackwell: There were times when we had gone in so many directions that I would be reading and thinking, how in the hell is all of this going to pull together in the end?

[5:53] Laura Camien: But I gotta say, for me, Nathan Hill took 16 strands of hair and braided them together into the most elaborate weave in this incredible story.

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[6:09] Laura Camien: When it all came together for me, it slapped me in the face with a line that took my breath away.

[6:17] Susan Blackwell: And that line was you can choose to be certain or you can choose to be alive.

[6:28] Laura Camien: And therein lies my spark for today. You can choose to be certain or you can choose to be alive.

[6:37] Susan Blackwell: So we are living in incredibly uncertain times.

[6:43] Laura Camien: And it won't surprise you to know that this is not the first time in history that we've all gone through in uncertain times.

[6:51] Susan Blackwell: Right now we have warring countries, we have political upheaval, what feels like chaos here in the US.

[6:59] Laura Camien: We have PTSD from a health crisis and a pandemic that upended so many people's lives, but in different ways.

[7:07] Susan Blackwell: And if we look at history, we can see a pattern, especially during times of crisis, as a way of coping, people look for certainty.

[7:19] Laura Camien: The search for certainty can be traced all the way back to our famous philosophers, the Socrates, the Plato's, all those dudes.

[7:28] Susan Blackwell: They look to mathematics and physics to prove certainty.

[7:33] Laura Camien: Like think of how we know for certain that two plus two equals four.

[7:37] Susan Blackwell: Or if I pick up this pencil and hold it out and I let go of it, I can be absolutely certain that pencil is going to fall to the ground, right?

[7:49] Laura Camien: But even those examples are conditional.

[7:53] Susan Blackwell: For example, if I have two pieces of mercury here and two pieces of mercury here, and I put them together, they don't equal four.

[8:01] Laura Camien: They're going to blob together, and they're going to be one bit of mercury.

[8:05] Susan Blackwell: And my pencil is only going to fall to the floor if I'm standing on the surface of the earth and gravity is at play.

[8:11] Laura Camien: If I'm in space, that pencil isn't going to fall anywhere.

[8:15] Susan Blackwell: Even then, our certainty has conditions attached to it.

[8:19] Laura Camien: And we have to understand context.

[8:42] Susan Blackwell: Like I didn't think too long and hard about it or anything.

[8:45] Laura Camien: I just have always thought certainty, yes, that's good.

[8:48] Susan Blackwell: That's a good thing to have.

[8:50] Laura Camien: We all want certainty, right?

[8:53] Susan Blackwell: Well, the more I dug into it and thought about it and read about it throughout history, certainty, meaning beliefs in absolute and certain truths has often been the justification for the most inhumane behavior, especially towards other people who don't share those truths and beliefs.

[9:16] Laura Camien: That's right.

[9:17] Susan Blackwell: Wars have been fought because of religious certainty, cruelty on other uh human beings has been inflicted because we're absolutely certain they're guilty of something, or they're bad, or they're monsters, and we are just certain of it.

[9:35] Laura Camien: Which brings me to a quick beat about conspiracy theories.

[9:40] Susan Blackwell: One of the reasons we see a rise in conspiracy theories during times of upheaval and crisis is because we crave certainty.

[9:51] Laura Camien: We are desperate for certainty.

[9:54] Susan Blackwell: We want to know something is true, something is unmovable and unquestionable, especially as everything around us is swirling and changing, and it feels like we're on really shaky ground.

[10:11] Laura Camien: Even though there's many of us who are like who will wonder like, how in the hell did that smart person that we know fall into this trap of this conspiracy theory and start believing, you know, X, Y, or Z, they're they're eating dogs, or they're um or um transgender surgeries for illegal aliens in jail.

[10:39] Susan Blackwell: That is a whole spark in and of itself, how that happens, but in a nutshell, we have to realize most likely it started small, one belief that broke through, and it was built upon with another and another and another, and now they literally cannot afford to question the viability of the latest theory because they have built a foundation of certain beliefs.

[11:06] Laura Camien: They've put their certainty in a person or a political party.

[11:11] Susan Blackwell: And if you pull on that thread or you knock down that first domino, you're gonna see the whole thing crumble.

[11:18] Laura Camien: And as we've witnessed, many people who believe in conspiracy theories cannot afford their mind becomes fixed on what they are certain of.

[11:27] Susan Blackwell: It's fixed and it's unmovable.

[11:30] Laura Camien: They cannot afford to open their mind to contrary ideas, they can't make themselves vulnerable to the possibility if this thing isn't true, the whole thing crumbles.

[11:47] Susan Blackwell: Our brains will cling to our certainty for self-protection.

[11:54] Laura Camien: But for those of us who are not currently down a rabbit hole, I got curious thinking about how the desire for certainty shows up in our lives and how the desire for certainty can keep us from being fully alive.

[12:18] Susan Blackwell: But really, the only thing we can be remotely certain about is that all of us will die.

[12:25] Laura Camien: Or at least that for one reason or another, our bodies will stop functioning.

[12:31] Susan Blackwell: Could probably argue there are gray areas in there.

[12:35] Laura Camien: Most people don't like to think about it, but that we know is true.

[12:39] Susan Blackwell: Our bodies will start stop functioning.

[12:43] Laura Camien: We can't be certain of when that day will come.

[12:46] Susan Blackwell: We can't be certain we'll wake up tomorrow.

[12:49] Laura Camien: We can't be certain we have 10 more years with our parents.

[12:53] Susan Blackwell: When I think of it that way, I think about the line, you can choose to be certain or you can choose to be alive.

[13:02] Laura Camien: And I think it's a bit of a choice to live in denial or to be fully openly aware of the possibilities and choose to live anyway.

[13:14] Susan Blackwell: And it takes bravery, it takes courage without a doubt.

[13:21] Laura Camien: There are a lot of areas in particular where we hold ourselves back from truly living because we can't be certain of the outcome.

[13:28] Susan Blackwell: But the two I'm just going to touch on today are love and creativity.

[13:49] Laura Camien: This could be friendship. We want to be certain that they won't ever reject us, hurt us, leave us. But we can't be certain. We can't know for sure that the person or people that we give our love to won't ever lie or make a mistake or make a choice that we don't like. We can't be certain that we'll grow old together for any number of reasons. So we have to make a choice. We can choose to live every day, meaning show up day by day and offer love and kindness to each other, not knowing what the outcome may be. And that's all we can really do. Now, when it comes to creativity, Suze, this is the one that I am not exaggerating. It keeps me up at night. Because I think about the number of people we have talked to who have a creative dream, something they want to create, say a book they want to write, and they've been wanting to write it for years.

They'll even say, "This has been in my mind for 15 years." But they are stopped by the lack of certainty. They'll say, "What if I write this book, spend all that time writing it and nothing happens? What if my life doesn't change? Or what if I create this show and no one likes it? What if it quote, doesn't go anywhere?" Again and again, they're asking, "What if my life doesn't change?" It's a lot to put on anything, a relationship, a creative project, that the thing you need to be certain of is that it's going to change your life, or why do it? But the thing is we want a guarantee for our investment. What if you put all your money in the stock market and it crashes? What if you love someone and they stop loving you back?

What if I make something and it doesn't change the world or even change the circumstances of my life? Well, I think we have to accept that is living. That is living. At least you're being active, you're growing, expanding, learning. You absolutely will be changed by that relationship that you invest in. You absolutely will be changed by that creative work that you make. We won't know exactly how until we muster the courage to venture into it. And there is one guarantee, I think. If you do nothing, nothing will change. That I think we could be pretty certain of. I understand even that has some gray areas, but pretty certain. If you don't do anything, nothing will change. I want to pause here, Suze, because I want to know if you have thoughts to add.

[17:03] Susan Blackwell: Snippet on the podcast before. I don't remember, but I had just met my now husband, and I was on a Marts bus with the wonderful playwright Stephen Karam, headed out to go visit his family at their house. And like I was really, really falling for him for Nathan. And I was really scared because I wasn't sure if it was reciprocated yet. And Stephen Karam said, "Well, that's the price of admission to the dance." That's right. And I think about I still quote him, but I apply it not only to matters of the heart, but also to matters of creativity. That's exactly that is the price of admission to the dance. Like, what if that boy doesn't like me back? What if the book that I have always wanted to write doesn't make an impact?

What if it doesn't change my life or anyone's life? And it's like that, yeah, that's the risk you take. Uh so there's that. Yes, there's that. Yep. And also you brushed this, but I also I thoroughly enjoyed this book. But one of the things my takeaways from this book that rocked my world is Nathan Hill in this book. I don't know how he did it. I don't know what research he conducted, but he describes in such detail how a person falls into believing in conspiracies.

[18:42] Laura Camien: That's right. And he writes it in a way that is masterful. It's one of the like when I think about not just my favorite books of last year, but also or this year, I can't remember when I read that. But what I think about my favorite chapters of books, that has to be top, top, top. It's so funny you say that because I was just going to say, so I had bought this book on the recommendation of an Instagram post from like New York magazine or something, like five best books to get right now. And I was on a tear and I was like, I'll get all five of these. Let's go. And so I had bought it, and then a friend was visiting. Hi, Bryce Somerville, and he was talking about this book he had just read, and he was like, this chapter in particular.

And we get into detail about that chapter. And I was like, what book is this? And he was like, "It's Wellness" by Nathan Hill. And I was like, I have it. I already have it. I just ordered it. I'm starting it tomorrow. And my God, are you right? And he's right. That chapter that writing. It is like it's that algorithms and exactly how you can get sucked down into a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, just one tiny step at a time. You don't realize it's happening. You're a frog in that boiling pot of water with the degrees getting, you know, it's getting hotter and hotter, but so incrementally small steps. And the fraud believes that it has agency and liberty, and it is an independent thinking frog and certainty.

[20:26] That's right. And the way that they do it just establishes this, like, no, I am certain about this. I have researched this, I know this to be true, unwavering and unmovable fact. Yeah. So good. So good. And when I think about it, I'm like, right. Clinging to certainty is no way to be alive. Because the things that we can be certain of, it's like, if I don't give my heart to anyone, I can be sure I will never be hurt. Sure, you can be certain that you won't be hurt in that way. It's probably going to cause you pain in another way. Um, if I choose not to create something, I can be certain that no one is going to be online saying, uh giving a review of my work and saying they hated it. That's true.

I can be certain that won't happen. Yeah. I can also be certain there won't be people who are out there saying the opposite. I was so affected by that work. I needed that work in my life. That work meant a lot to me. So that's what we can be certain of. So I want to leave you with one of the other questions that the book "Wellness" brought up. Through a long and winding road, the book explores, and it's related, it explores the idea of the placebo effect. For those unfamiliar with the placebo effect, a placebo is used typically in like medical trials to test the effectiveness of a drug or a treatment. And people in one group get the actual drug that they're testing, while other people receive like a meaningless pill, a placebo. It might be a sugar pill, it's nothing. It's not the medication. And the participants in the trial don't know whether they're receiving the real medicine or the placebo.

[22:28] Laura Camien: Studies have shown one third of the folks who are taking the placebo pill actually recover, get well, even though they weren't taking the real medication. It works because they believe it will work. So the book asks if we know that 33% of folks will be healed by giving them a placebo, do we have a responsibility to use it? Should we at least try it if we know it works a certain percentage of the time? Fun fact, Susan. I looked this up. Scientists have even proven that the placebo effect can work even when the patient knows that they are taking a placebo. This was bananas. Wow. In 50% of the patients who knew that they were taking something that wasn't actually medicine, they still got better.

What if we take a metaphorical placebo pill when it comes to love and creativity? Maybe we can't be certain that it will work, but it's worth a try. The placebo effect is an idea that works if you believe it will work. The outcome's not guaranteed, but it can work. So what if we applied it when we give our hearts away, or when we start a creative project? What if we choose to believe that only good things are going to happen from this? What if we choose to believe this friendship is going to be glorious? This relationship is going to be so fun and so enriching. But what if it does? What if it all works out beautifully? What if we give up the impossible dream of being certain and instead choose to be alive? What incredible things might happen then?

[24:42] Susan Blackwell: I love this so much, Laura. And if you know, haven't already picked up on it, we both highly recommend "Wellness" by Nathan Hill. But what a great, I feel like we need to print this on merch. Would you rather be certain or be alive? Like it is it responds to so many of the questions that people pose to us about the what ifs and the fears that they have about their creative work. The perfectionists out there, and we see you, we feel it the same way we are you. We are you that sort of like, well, I don't want to hand this in if I don't know like this is a plus work. I don't want to post my website unless I know that it's exactly all the things that it could be. We'll never be certain. Go ahead and get it out there. Let's choose to be alive. Let's choose to be alive. Beautiful, beautiful way to kick off season five, Laura Camien.

[25:44] Laura Camien: Thank you, Suze. And I guess that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people. And as always, we hope this put a bunch of tasty sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark that you would like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email us at getcreative@thesparkfile.com, or you can reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com. We'll even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk you've taken recently. You can follow us on social at The Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast.

It really helps other listeners to find us. Also, if you liked this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, you know what? We still wish you aliveness. Not just certainty, but alive. Get out there and live your life. That's right. If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame. You know you gotta take it and make it. Welcome back, season five. Woo!

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