This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:41] Susan Blackwell: Welcome to The Spark File, your one stop collect them all for creative inspiration.

[0:45] Laura Camien: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:46] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell. If you're joining us for the first time, you're so welcome. If you're joining us for the 44th time, you are also so welcome.

[0:53] Laura Camien: You might be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it? These are good questions. We've got answers.

[1:01] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:08] Laura Camien: Listen to me. Here's the deal. We are makers who make all kinds of things. If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or if you just want to be making stuff all the time, you know that the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:22] Susan Blackwell: So we're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this very podcast.

[1:34] Laura Camien: Or a creative space or gathering place designed for ideas and inspiration to blossom.

[1:42] Susan Blackwell: Huh. Or a whole life with creativity and laughter and hard work and activism flowing straight through the middle of it.

[1:51] Laura Camien: Oh.

[1:52] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into the spark file and exchange some sparks. And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:10] Laura Camien: And if you're not careful, you might just discover a deeper truth. So without further ado, let's open up the spark file.

[2:19] Susan Blackwell: Camien.

[2:19] Laura Camien: Blackwell.

[2:21] Susan Blackwell: I think we just need to bring the listener in on the fact that we don't typically, am I wrong? We don't typically record this late.

[2:30] Laura Camien: By this late.

[2:31] Susan Blackwell: Well, I'm embarrassed to say how this late is.

[2:33] Laura Camien: It's 1 a.m.

[2:34] Susan Blackwell: We don't usually turn on the recorder.

[2:38] Laura Camien: No, I guess I'm wrong.

[2:39] Susan Blackwell: Um, we sometimes have, but why does it seem like it's the middle of the night?

[2:44] Laura Camien: We're strung out and exhausted and loopy as a result, which I think we've been very busy.

[2:52] Susan Blackwell: Who hasn't? Holidays.

[2:54] Laura Camien: We all we just got through the holidays. Everybody's it's fine.

[3:01] Susan Blackwell: Where are we? And what are we doing?

[3:03] Laura Camien: Anyway, we're a little loop-de-loo, but we're gonna go with it.

[3:07] Susan Blackwell: We're riding the loop-de-loo wave.

[3:09] Laura Camien: That's right.

[3:10] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Love us as we are.

[3:12] Laura Camien: Love us.

[3:14] Susan Blackwell: As we are.

[3:15] Laura Camien: This is what you've got.

[3:17] Susan Blackwell: Um deal with it.

[3:19] Laura Camien: Blackwell.

[3:20] Susan Blackwell: Cams.

[3:21] Laura Camien: We talk a lot.

[3:23] Susan Blackwell: I'm jumping right in to my spark.

[3:25] Laura Camien: Huh?

[3:25] Susan Blackwell: Can I just say this to you?

[3:26] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[3:27] Susan Blackwell: Happy New Year.

[3:28] Laura Camien: Oh, happy new year.

[3:30] Susan Blackwell: Happy New Year to you too.

[3:32] Laura Camien: Unless we release this at a different time than the new year.

[3:37] Susan Blackwell: Happy February.

[3:40] Laura Camien: Um, and to all you listeners, happy, happy new year.

[3:43] Susan Blackwell: Um, you were gonna say.

[3:45] Laura Camien: Well, I was gonna say, I'm jumping right into my spark.

[3:48] Susan Blackwell: Great.

[3:49] Laura Camien: Um, and what I wanted to say is that we talk a lot about ideas on this podcast.

[3:56] Susan Blackwell: We do.

[3:57] Laura Camien: Obviously.

[3:58] Susan Blackwell: We do.

[3:59] Laura Camien: Um, and specifically the free exchange of ideas and the fearless exchange of ideas. I think we both believe that ideas are everywhere.

[4:08] Susan Blackwell: If you keep your eyes open, keep your mind open.

[4:12] Laura Camien: And one of our goals is to create a community of supportive makers and creators who want to discuss and share ideas and inspiration.

[4:20] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[4:20] Laura Camien: Correct.

[4:21] Susan Blackwell: Correct a mundo.

[4:23] Laura Camien: That's exactly what I was gonna say.

[4:25] Susan Blackwell: Did the fonts used to say that?

[4:27] Laura Camien: I don't know.

[4:27] Susan Blackwell: Maybe it wasn't the fonts.

[4:28] Laura Camien: Correct a mundo.

[4:32] Susan Blackwell: So back in the day, Suze, long before podcasts, one of the ways that people might have shared ideas and thoughts is through a salon.

[4:46] Laura Camien: What was called the salon.

[4:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[4:47] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[4:48] Susan Blackwell: You've heard of salons, right?

[4:49] Laura Camien: 100%.

[4:50] Susan Blackwell: I may have attended a salon or two.

[4:52] Laura Camien: Right. Am I right?

[4:53] Susan Blackwell: So the thing is, if you don't know, a salon is a gathering of people, but it is more than a party per se.

[5:02] Laura Camien: It's more than like a casual dinner party.

[5:04] Susan Blackwell: It is specifically intended to entertain and educate the participants of a salon.

[5:11] Laura Camien: I am already so excited about this part.

[5:14] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[5:14] Laura Camien: Yes.

[5:15] Susan Blackwell: Oh, Suze, thanks. What a this is great.

[5:18] Laura Camien: Well, I hope it fulfills every expectation.

[5:23] Susan Blackwell: Um thanks.

[5:24] Laura Camien: That got me excited.

[5:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yeah.

[5:26] Laura Camien: Um, so if you were invited to a salon back in the day, you would absolutely attend with the assumption that you were going to learn something new.

[5:26] Susan Blackwell: You were going to share ideas and opinions and discuss the most recent cultural developments.

[5:41] Laura Camien: And the discussion would have some structure to it.

[5:44] Susan Blackwell: Like there might be some debating.

[5:45] Laura Camien: It wasn't just a free-for-all.

[5:47] Susan Blackwell: It wasn't like a cocktail party.

[5:49] Laura Camien: You know.

[5:49] Susan Blackwell: Um, but people gathered to truly share ideas and listen to other people's ideas.

[5:55] Laura Camien: You may not know.

[5:57] Susan Blackwell: Salons date back to the 16th century.

[6:00] Laura Camien: Which is the 1500s.

[6:02] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[6:03] Laura Camien: Yes, Susan.

[6:05] Susan Blackwell: Seemed like a complete moron to people.

[6:07] Laura Camien: Oh, I just get the numbers confused.

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: I know it's easy to.

[6:11] Laura Camien: I'm not highly enumerate.

[6:12] Susan Blackwell: It's easy to more of a sparks kind of gal.

[6:16] Laura Camien: Yeah, tons of sparks.

[6:18] Susan Blackwell: Anyway, you got that. 16th century, which is the 1500s.

[6:22] Laura Camien: And they began in Italy, but from there they really took off in France.

[6:26] Susan Blackwell: So it's a lot of sorts of people say France.

[6:31] Laura Camien: That is correct.

[6:31] Susan Blackwell: A lot of people will say France is where they started.

[6:34] Laura Camien: But um some people in Italy might debate that, but really they became very popular in France for several hundred years, and they enjoyed their heyday.

[6:45] Susan Blackwell: They were a key component of the age of enlightenment, as that's not a big surprise.

[6:45] Laura Camien: The age of enlightenment, basically the 1700s, essentially.

[6:56] Susan Blackwell: Which are the seventeen hundreds, which is amazing.

[7:00] Laura Camien: That's so um, I don't know. That's a really smart way of naming them.

[7:06] Susan Blackwell: Thank you.

[7:07] Laura Camien: Um, but the age of enlightenment was a big uh it was a time of big ideas, big advancements in science, revolutions happened in both France and the United States.

[7:19] Susan Blackwell: Um, but salons have continued to play an important role in cultural dialogue throughout the years.

[7:27] Laura Camien: Thomas Jefferson was famous for curating an eclectic group of people over for dinner.

[7:34] Susan Blackwell: And um there's a there's a movement to sort of call them Jeffersonian dinners.

[7:40] Laura Camien: Um, but he would invite an eclectic group of people over and then insist that they would all have one conversation, which meant interesting.

[7:48] Susan Blackwell: Instead of like we're talking about what are you where are you vacationing and we're talking about everybody, there's one conversation.

[7:56] Laura Camien: That's right.

[7:59] Susan Blackwell: That's being passed, but I hope there was a gravy boat.

[7:59] Laura Camien: I hope there was a silver talking gravy boat.

[8:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that would be so Jefferson, wouldn't it?

[8:09] Laura Camien: Um in the 1920s, Gertrude Stein was famous for having salons.

[8:13] Susan Blackwell: People like Picasso would drop in and participate in her salons.

[8:18] Laura Camien: In the 1960s, Andy Warhol had the factory, which was kind of a hybrid of like salon and studio and party room.

[8:29] Susan Blackwell: Interesting, you know, but it definitely was a place for ideas and creativity to be exchanged.

[8:36] Laura Camien: Fun fact the origins of Blue Man Group began in the late 1980s with informal salons.

[8:45] Susan Blackwell: There were like 10 or 15 friends, and they would get together to discuss books and ideas, and eventually that led to a desire to like take action.

[8:53] Laura Camien: Like really, yeah, yeah.

[8:55] Susan Blackwell: I don't think I ever knew that origin story.

[8:57] Laura Camien: Really?

[8:57] Susan Blackwell: No.

[8:57] Laura Camien: They would take they would take a book and literally like rip up the book so that you take this chapter, you take this chapter, you take this chapter, and then like circle up and report in on your chapter.

[9:08] Susan Blackwell: Interesting.

[9:09] Laura Camien: It's a different way of taking in information.

[9:11] Susan Blackwell: That's a book club right there.

[9:13] Laura Camien: Um that is a spin on a book club.

[9:15] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[9:16] Laura Camien: But then they would, you know, after gathering for a while, then they wanted to really like take to the streets.

[9:16] Susan Blackwell: Take to the streets.

[9:23] Laura Camien: They created that character and then literally started to um see how that character would interact with people or how people would interact with with him.

[9:33] Susan Blackwell: So it all started with a salon.

[9:35] Laura Camien: There's a lot of people who believe that we're in we're at the beginning of a new era of salons, which is really interesting because now ideas can be shared so freaking quickly with the internet.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[9:50] Laura Camien: And whereas back when salon started, it was like a necessity if you wanted to know about the advancements in science or mathematics or astrology or what have you, you had to make an effort to get out there and have conversations.

[10:09] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[10:10] Laura Camien: But now we don't really need that.

[10:12] Susan Blackwell: But the hypothesis is that what people are craving is the human contact.

[10:17] Laura Camien: Sure.

[10:18] Susan Blackwell: So we can have access to ideas now, but we are craving being among people, discussing, sharing thoughts in real time.

[10:29] Laura Camien: You know, getting instant feedback, uh ping-ponging an idea back and forth with someone that you can't do so much.

[10:36] Susan Blackwell: I will say that as you're saying that this having this with you, when we just get to like throw an idea in the air and just uh volley it back and forth, yeah, is one of the great joys of my life.

[10:49] Laura Camien: Yay!

[10:50] Susan Blackwell: It really does something good for my brain.

[10:53] Laura Camien: Me too.

[10:53] Susan Blackwell: So I can understand why people would crave it if you don't have it.

[10:56] Laura Camien: That's right.

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[10:58] Laura Camien: That's right.

[10:58] Susan Blackwell: And I'm gonna talk more about that very idea in a little while.

[11:01] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[11:01] Susan Blackwell: Because I feel the same way.

[11:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[11:03] Susan Blackwell: Um, but the downside is that salons are typically invite only.

[11:08] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[11:09] Susan Blackwell: And the group of people is curated by the host, and they're groups of people who know each other, or maybe they can bring a person in who offers a new perspective.

[11:21] Laura Camien: Um, but it's typically a kind of a closed circle.

[11:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[11:26] Laura Camien: You can plan your own salon, which is awesome, and I'd be in full support of it, but it's not exactly like you can say on a random Saturday night, like, I feel like attending a salon.

[11:36] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[11:37] Laura Camien: Where's everybody at?

[11:38] Susan Blackwell: You know?

[11:39] Laura Camien: That's right.

[11:40] Susan Blackwell: So throughout history, people have endeavored to create spaces that would encourage the gathering of people, both friends and strangers alike, to inspire them, entertain, engage, educate, and encourage conversation and dialogue, right?

[11:59] Laura Camien: It could be the theater, it could be museums, or even a world fair, like the world expo.

[12:07] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[12:07] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah.

[12:08] Susan Blackwell: The first world expo, which I'm a little bit obsessed with just because um, because I learned about it, Prince Albert, um advocating for it.

[12:18] Laura Camien: I don't know, such a weirdo.

[12:20] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[12:20] Laura Camien: Anyway, I'm weirdo, totally niche, but um, the World expo was held in 1851 in London, and it was called the Great Exhibition of the Works of Industry of All Nations.

[12:32] Susan Blackwell: That just rolls right off the top.

[12:34] Susan Blackwell: A bit of a mouthful there. But it was branding, branding. It was a lofty idea, and it was a passion project of Prince Albert, like I said. He was the husband of Queen Victoria. From what I know about it, I'm going off-road here for a second. But you know, Queen Victoria was very popular and accomplished a lot in her life, and we the Victorian age, obviously. But there were times when Prince Albert felt like he wasn't contributing enough and he had a lot to offer. And one of his passions was um industry and science and mathematics. And so pulling this huge expo together for the first time when people thought he was crazy, and what the hell is he doing that for? Um, but he didn't. They thought it was Yieldie Fire Festival, and he was like, no, this is this is too legit to quit.

That's right. So yeah, so he um the intention was to show progress in architecture and engineering and industry, and of course, the not so secret agenda was to showcase the progress made in England specifically. Um, and to show themselves as the leader of industry. Many, many, many people thought that he was crazy, but he really wanted this event to be accessible to everyone, even the working class. So they had like Charles Darwin, Charlotte Bronte, Charles Dickens, Alfred Tennyson, and more mingling with the common people. Really? That's right. They're taking in ideas and marveling at the work of people from around the world. In the end, like six million people, equivalent to like a third of the entire population of Britain at that time visited this great exhibition.

Can you imagine though? This was before all of this sort of exposure to things and information was readily available. That's right. To have it all brought together and served to you in one place must have been amazing. I mean, I think mind-blowing for people.

[14:44] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[14:45] Susan Blackwell: And that was worth the trip. And he really succeeded at it. Um, the average daily attendance was 42,000 people. Jeez. That's right. It was a big wow. Big, big, big. Big, big. So today, in order to mingle among luminaries, you might consider going to like the Aspen Ideas Forum, or you might go to the annual TED Conference to listen to scientists and artists and activists and entrepreneurs who've come together to share ideas. Again, not incredibly accessible to everyone. You know?

[14:55] Laura Camien: That's right.

[15:23] Susan Blackwell: That's a pricey ticket. Yep. And a trip wherever they're, you know, to Aspen or wherever they're having uh Vancouver, I think, for Ted. And I don't even know if you can get a ticket if you want to. So again, it's like very um, I don't know, um exclusive.

[15:42] Laura Camien: Exclusive.

[15:43] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Recently I had the opportunity to attend a pre-opening event for a new space with similar goals. I think Prince Albert would approve. Um, it's a very accessible, it truly invites people in to do more than just see art. They've designed the entire space to inspire thought and discussion and collaboration. It's called Photographiska. It's in New York City. This is its second outpost, but they have plans for many, many more. The next one's gonna be in London. Where's number one? Um, the number the first one was created in Stockholm.

[16:19] Laura Camien: Oh photographiska, photographiska, and it's by two brothers, Jan and Perr Broman.

[16:27] Susan Blackwell: And it was such a huge success that they're opening in many other cities now. Wow. In New York City, they occupy six floors of a historical landmark building.

[16:37] Laura Camien: Oh my god, we're Park Avenue South.

[16:39] Susan Blackwell: Really? That's right. And you can expect like 20, 25 exhibitions per year. But first of all, it's not a museum, which is really interesting because it seems like it. Like they have these photography, you might say, Oh, it's a m museum of photography. It's like a giant gallery or kind of. But there's different things on every floor.

[17:01] Laura Camien: Okay.

[17:02] Susan Blackwell: Um, but they don't have a permanent collection. And their hours are like from 9 a.m. to midnight or 1 a.m. There's stuff going on all the time. So the space includes these photography installations, but also a restaurant, a really cool event space for like intimate concerts, live podcast recordings, hello.

[17:27] Laura Camien: Hello, um, events that connect with the installations.

[17:31] Susan Blackwell: There's a speakeasy type of bar, there's a coffee shop, a gift shop, of course. What do they call it? If it's not a museum and it's not exactly a culture?

[17:41] Laura Camien: Cultural center, um, a creative escape.

[17:44] Susan Blackwell: A salon.

[17:45] Laura Camien: A salon.

[17:46] Susan Blackwell: That's what I would say. Wow. I would say, so the whole feel of it is incredibly welcoming. Um, and you can see you can see photography masters and filmmakers discussing, you know, lenses and saturation and perspective and everything related to their art form. But you also see people of all types responding emotionally and creatively to all that moves them.

[18:16] Laura Camien: So you don't have to be like a professional photographer or photographer adjacent.

[18:21] Susan Blackwell: Nope. Nope. Or art world adjacent. You can just go and take it in.

[18:26] Laura Camien: That's right.

[18:27] Susan Blackwell: And the goal of Photographiska is to show the best photography in the world for sure, but to also focus on diversity, inclusion, and social issues.

[18:37] Laura Camien: Interesting.

[18:37] Susan Blackwell: So I decided I was gonna give you just a small taste, like a two-minute, two-minute taste of just sparks that I that I captured while I was there on my quick.

[18:49] Laura Camien: I love it visit.

[18:51] Susan Blackwell: Spark salad.

[18:52] Laura Camien: Spark salad.

[18:53] Susan Blackwell: Spark salad. Yes. So I just want to illustrate just how chock full of sparks this trip was. Okay. So I start you start on the sixth floor, and up there, that is an event space with this. It's it's the installation up there, is these like incredible rock concert, rock history photographs.

[19:12] Laura Camien: Oh.

[19:13] Susan Blackwell: The space is all like woodsy. It's all wood and windows, and it feels like an attic. Like there's because there's beams and you can see the rafters up above that's open up there. So it feels like an attic. When there's not something going on, you can sit and read a book. You can there's a a bar there for coffee during the day, drinks at night.

[19:35] Laura Camien: You can bring your computer, hang out.

[19:37] Susan Blackwell: It's like do you pay a mission to get into the building?

[19:41] Laura Camien: To go up into these floors, yes, but there's several floors that don't require really.

[19:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[19:46] Laura Camien: Yeah. Exactly.

[19:48] Susan Blackwell: It's so it's so cool. So my mind was spinning with all the things that could happen in that room, including a live recording of the spark file.

[19:55] Laura Camien: Hello.

[19:56] Susan Blackwell: Hello. Um, but I have seen just by the nature of my jobs over the years, I've seen many, many event spaces in New York City.

[20:04] Laura Camien: Of course.

[20:04] Susan Blackwell: And this one is really, really, really special. I just can't wait for you to see it. Um, all right. So then one floor down, fifth floor was super sexy photographs by Ellen Von Unworth.

[20:18] Laura Camien: Oh.

[20:19] Susan Blackwell: These are dazzling.

[20:21] Laura Camien: Fashion photography?

[20:22] Susan Blackwell: They are, yes, glossy, high fashion, but but sex. Like, do you remember Madonna's sex book?

[20:30] Laura Camien: Sure.

[20:31] Susan Blackwell: Kind of of that ilk.

[20:33] Laura Camien: Got it.

[20:33] Susan Blackwell: Um, they were super sexy, yes. Gave me all the tingly feelings that go along with sexy photos, but also it made me they smile, it made me laugh. I would turn a corner and just start laughing because they're so playful and fun.

[20:53] Laura Camien: Wow.

[20:53] Susan Blackwell: And that floor, I think made me think about how differently sex is represented when a female is behind the camera.

[21:02] Laura Camien: Sure.

[21:03] Susan Blackwell: Even for sex quote unquote sexy photographs, um, versus a male.

[21:07] Laura Camien: Sure.

[21:07] Susan Blackwell: So it was very powerful and very playful. So that's um total that floor was a total spark.

[21:14] Laura Camien: Spark salad.

[21:15] Susan Blackwell: Spark salad. Next floor down featured photographs by Helene Schmidt thinking like a mountain.

[21:21] Laura Camien: I like the name of that.

[21:24] Susan Blackwell: Right? Thinking like a mountain. Yeah. These were images of land ravaged by human beings. Like absolutely gorgeous landscapes. And then you look closer and you see what we've done to those landscapes.

[21:37] Laura Camien: Whoa.

[21:38] Susan Blackwell: She got me thinking about how the most beautiful places in the world are also often the most valuable to industry.

[21:45] Laura Camien: Sure.

[21:45] Susan Blackwell: She showed these pipelines and digs and described them and the foot and photographed them as open wounds on earth. It was amazing when you think about it like that.

[21:58] Laura Camien: Sparked.

[21:59] Susan Blackwell: Fucking sparked. I also learned about a plant called Kudsu. Do you know what this is?

[22:03] Laura Camien: Oh yeah.

[22:06] Susan Blackwell: Did you know? Had you not had that missed you, kudzu?

[22:10] Laura Camien: Well, I think it vaguely, but I didn't know the whole story.

[22:13] Susan Blackwell: Do you know where it comes from?

[22:14] Laura Camien: It was it from China?

[22:16] Susan Blackwell: No, it was from Japan.

[22:17] Laura Camien: Japan, sorry.

[22:18] Susan Blackwell: So it was a plant that was given to the United States on our 100th birthday from Japan. Happy birthday.

[22:25] Laura Camien: Happy birthday.

[22:27] Susan Blackwell: And it was meant to be a lovely gift.

[22:30] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[22:30] Susan Blackwell: Because it's known for its vitality and beautiful flowers.

[22:34] Laura Camien: It is, it has vitality that it does.

[22:36] Susan Blackwell: But it also grows like crazy and it spread across the south so rapidly it killed all other plant life.

[22:42] Laura Camien: It's crazy.

[22:42] Susan Blackwell: When you drive, I I guess I know of it because I've spent some time driving through the south. And as you're driving the highways where kudsu has infested, that's right.

[22:52] Laura Camien: It I bet you saw photographs.

[22:54] Susan Blackwell: Did you see photographs of it?

[22:55] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah.

[22:56] Susan Blackwell: It covers everything.

[22:58] Laura Camien: Yes.

[22:58] Susan Blackwell: It covers telephone poles.

[23:00] Laura Camien: It covers other trees.

[23:01] Susan Blackwell: It covers it.

[23:02] Laura Camien: It covers everything.

[23:03] Susan Blackwell: So it everything starts looking like topiary.

[23:06] Laura Camien: That's right.

[23:07] Susan Blackwell: It looks like the shapes, like you can see shapes within it.

[23:10] Laura Camien: And you're like, is it a dinosaur topiary?

[23:13] Susan Blackwell: It's really. When you mentioned the highway, it was planted intentionally along highways for soil erosion to stop that from happening.

[23:22] Laura Camien: And this is what we got.

[23:23] Susan Blackwell: It's so invasive. So she has a whole series of incredible photographs of it having taken over.

[23:30] Laura Camien: Wow.

[23:31] Susan Blackwell: Um they're beautiful, but it can grow at a rate of 12 inches in 24 hours.

[23:36] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:36] Susan Blackwell: Kudzu. Um, but they described it like a terrorist wildfire.

[23:43] Laura Camien: Like that's what it can do, and it kills all other plant life.

[23:46] Susan Blackwell: It's a good spark for a horror movie.

[23:48] Laura Camien: It is.

[23:49] Susan Blackwell: Is there a horror movie?

[23:50] Laura Camien: I know there's a cartoon strip called kudzu.

[23:53] Susan Blackwell: It seems to me like one like it could be more like a plot device in some kind of um, I don't know, outer space movie, or you know how sometimes they're like, oh, here's an amoeba that does this certain thing, and you can find it in this plant, you know.

[24:09] Laura Camien: Um that it is one of the most invasive species in the world.

[24:17] Susan Blackwell: This kudzu.

[24:18] Laura Camien: Yes.

[24:19] Susan Blackwell: So if you needed if a storyline that needed one of the most invasive whatever, you could base it off kudzu.

[24:25] Laura Camien: You can totally it also might be a good way, you know, sometimes in films and things like that, people struggle to find clever ways to show passage of time.

[24:34] Susan Blackwell: If it you could show like how much of ours time's house has been engulfed in kudzu in, you know, yeah.

[24:40] Laura Camien: And meanwhile, one year later, the house is covered in kudzu.

[24:43] Susan Blackwell: That's right, entirely. I also think that in retrospect, the whole gift from Japan thing also seems like it's a bad joke taken like from a bad comedy.

[24:53] Laura Camien: Like two suitors are trying to get Susan's attention, and one of them is like, hey, bring her these flowers. She loves these flowers.

[25:00] Susan Blackwell: And then turns out she's allergic. You know, it's like just a terrible turn of events. But this whole like, give the United States katsu.

[25:08] Susan Blackwell: This is the most lovely gift. This will be a hearty flower. United States. Yeah, like whose idea was that? And did someone have to pay for that decision? Curious. I don't know. Um, another floor down, Tawny Chapman. Oh, God. Her exhibit was called Inheritance. Our children inherit what we don't resolve. Oh. And I was like, well, there's a provocation right there. I don't even know if I need to see the photographs. I'm just gonna sit and think about that. What were the photos? So the photos are exquisite. She photographs her children, decorated and painted. It's not just traditional photography, but in ornate and gorgeous, like gold leaf. Her goal is to evoke feelings of grace, magnificence, and beauty.

Boy, does she do that? She does it in spades. She wants to start a conversation about race and the stereotypical way black bodies and people of color have been depicted through photographs versus how she's depicting them. It is so powerful and so beautiful. Wow. It's exquisite. Is every floor right now women photographers?

[26:20] Laura Camien: People who identify as women.

[26:22] Susan Blackwell: So far, you've said three women. I don't think they all are. Um the photographs in the on the top floor. I'm not sure. There's a few. Yeah, I'm not mentioning everyone. This is crazy. This is a highlight reel. So far, you're hitting the ladies. And I've got one more. Great. Anastasia Taylor Lind exhibit was called Other People's Children. It had her going on an assignment for Time magazine. She's a photojournalist. And she was embedded with New York City families and their caregivers for like five months. She documented the whole daycare industry and the invisible village required to raise a child, as they put it. It takes a village to raise a child, but we don't live in a village anymore. So most of the caregivers have children of their own that they can't afford to raise.

So they raise other people's children in order to make a living, to try to have their own family. Wow. Super powerful. Like I said, this is just like I just thought I would give you. Here's a quick trip through those um exhibits. Seven layer spark salad. It's incredible, but this is just one visit to photograph Iska. These exhibits will change, obviously, but this is just one, you know, sparks from one afternoon that I jotted down as I went through. Amazing.

[27:46] Susan Blackwell: Oh so all of this got me thinking do you have a space or spaces that you can go to that stimulate your mind, but also allow you room to reflect, discuss, and perhaps even get creative yourself. Curious. Because obviously we all need our office, our crafting room, our garage. But we also need to be among others from time to time. You know, and I'm not talking about like just a place to type, like a coffee shop. Those are great too. Or or like the Norwood Club or the Wing or all of these places that I think are doing a lot to um engage people. But again, access to them is more difficult.

[28:36] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:38] Susan Blackwell: So I'm talking about a space that will feed your soul, invite you to pour your heart out before you go. And maybe this isn't like an everyday space. You can't, you know, hang out there, but it could be your go-to to get refreshed, to knock some new ideas loose in your head, to challenge you in new ways. Personally, I would recommend having a short list of these places that really do it for you.

[29:01] Laura Camien: This is so interesting.

[29:03] Susan Blackwell: Yes. I don't because as you're asking the question, I'm like, I don't know that I have that space. I have one other I I didn't write this down, but I have another secret space. Um, the merchant house on 4th Street, it is Oh, I know that. Um, yeah. It's really cool because it is uh, first of all, it's like I live nearby, so it's easy and close. Um, but you see how people lived in the 1700s, 1800s, this remaining house. They've preserved it with all of their furniture, et cetera. And in the backyard, so when the weather is nice, they had a backyard that has a beautiful garden. And in the middle of the city, it's hard to find that. So if you go to a visit to the merchant house, which is like $10 for a ticket, um you can go sit in the backyard.

And I'm always like lit up, of course, by historically, there's always something new that I notice in there or think about in terms of like how they lived at that time. And this was this was a house of wealth and people who were doing well.

[30:11] Laura Camien: Um, and if you walked through and thought about it in terms of like, oh hey, me and my partner and maybe our two children live here, this is incredible.

[30:19] Susan Blackwell: But 11 people lived in those types of homes. Sure. And that was that was like the upper echelon, that was the upper class that lived that way. So just an example. But so I have a couple places like that, but Photographisca is definitely going to go on my personal list.

[30:40] Laura Camien: So there are places in Photographisca that you can, there's sort of like public access that's right.

[30:49] Susan Blackwell: That's right, access to other and I think that um admission is like $28, which is less than other like museums, but also membership I think is $150 for the year. And that includes other, you know, other um events and things. So but if you for when you put it that way, like to have a place where you could go in the hustle and the bustle of the city to like go and have your spark bucket filled and be refreshed and let's face it, use the bathroom. Like these are all that's that is that's not bad.

[31:28] Laura Camien: It sounds amazing.

[31:29] Susan Blackwell: Bad at all. And I think that it's great to know, you know, when you need to replenish, besides listening to The Spark File. Um, that there are places that you can go, or you can plan a regular outing there with your friends, you know. And if you don't have a space like this in your city or in your town, you could create one.

[31:54] Laura Camien: You know, I was at story gathering with you this year, and I don't think you were with me, but a young woman came up to me, she's from the South, very, very small town, and she told me that her spark that she was sparking on and really wanted to try to make, I think she's a single mom, like this is not an easy lift. But she wanted to create a space that was a storefront where it would have maybe a small stage in there, and there could be cultural events and room for songwriters and storytellers, and and she was telling me about wanting to build this space for her community and for her daughter, and and I said, That sounds amazing.

[32:50] Susan Blackwell: Do me a favor, just based on her introduction and what I knew about her in a very short conversation.

[32:55] Laura Camien: Yeah, I was like, do me a favor, and how about you also keep a little slice of the programming schedule, something so that you, in addition to creating space for other people, you also are creating a space for yourself and your own songs and stories.

[33:13] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Yeah, that's essential. But I was so knocked out by that spark, and that she was sort of like, I'm not sure exactly how I'm gonna get it done, but I just feel like I must get it done.

[33:24] Laura Camien: Well, I think like that's a big that you know, that's a bigger version of this. If you can find the space and you can, you know, find the funding and get that going. I think that is a dream.

[33:38] Susan Blackwell: But you can also start a salon in your living room.

[33:41] Laura Camien: Yes.

[33:42] Susan Blackwell: You know, you can also start with the people that you know. You can be the place where others gather together to discuss ideas. You can consider being the person who organizes a regular outing to a space like Photographisca and then leads a discussion.

[33:58] Laura Camien: You know, I love it. People are craving it.

[34:03] Susan Blackwell: It's funny because I've been to some Jeffersonian dinners where everyone has you know the same conversation. And you know, it's not for everyone. Some people will still be like, I've just got to turn to the person next to me and just have my own.

[34:17] Laura Camien: But I love it.

[34:19] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love it. You really hear from everyone, you get so many perspectives. And I do believe that people are craving having like a higher level conversation about deeper topics.

[34:35] Laura Camien: Yes.

[34:35] Susan Blackwell: So consider being that person that makes that happen and creating uh the the person that creates that opportunity for people. I think this podcast is sort of our version of a salon.

[34:48] Laura Camien: Um, and mostly it's you and me, and then occasionally we've got another maker or two with us um to have conversations.

[34:55] Susan Blackwell: But we would always love to hear from all of you. Like we love hearing your thoughts in email, yeah, the ideas that you want to share, what you're creating, because building this community of artists supporting each other is really important to us.

[35:10] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[35:11] Susan Blackwell: And our dream, I think, is for all of us to be creating despite fear, despite doubt, despite anxiety, to be sharing ideas with confidence and really pushing each other to grow. You know, we can be together virtually, but we also want you to find a place or create a place in real life.

[35:30] Laura Camien: I love this.

[35:30] Susan Blackwell: And it also reminds me of uh the art of dying well spark. One of the sparks I took away from that is how important meaningful human engagement is. And my thought that I think I presented was the idea of having a monthly sort of potluck.

[35:48] Laura Camien: That's right.

[35:48] Susan Blackwell: Open house kind of thing.

[35:50] Laura Camien: That's right.

[35:50] Susan Blackwell: You throw a little like you throw a little salon conversation in there.

[35:54] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[35:55] Susan Blackwell: And that's that's and you've got it all. If anybody does this, if anyone gathers their friends together for a salon type discussion, will you let us know? I just want to, I just want to know.

[36:05] Laura Camien: I want to to hear about it.

[36:10] Susan Blackwell: I think I can imagine that it's one of those things that the first time you did it, you might be like, um, okay. Um so this is it. Like it might you might be a little bashful because it is more structured. It's not just a free for all cocktail party pieces. And I think that's why you have to curate who's coming and and build your confidence there.

[36:31] Laura Camien: Like invite people that you know who are going to pay attention to the structure and then expand as you go.

[36:39] Susan Blackwell: My friend Geordy Coates for years did a uh salon in Brooklyn that they were pretty faithful to.

[36:44] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:45] Susan Blackwell: Um, and I've always admired it. I think it's a fantastic spark.

[36:49] Laura Camien: Yay.

[36:50] Susan Blackwell: I love it.

[36:50] Laura Camien: Yay. Good spark.

[36:52] Susan Blackwell: Thanks, Susan. I can't wait to hear yours. Do you want to take a break?

[36:55] Laura Camien: I do, but first I want to say this one last piece, which is as you're talking, I think it would be, and maybe the live podcast is this, but like spark salons where we have do that do this very thing, and then other people can do their own version.

[37:14] Susan Blackwell: Like well, I could see I could see a version like, for example, if you and friends went to like Photograph Huska or the Guggenheim or wherever.

[37:25] Laura Camien: And you go your own way and you come back and I love it.

[37:29] Susan Blackwell: Everyone share one spark that really got them going. What's one thing that you saw that really lit you up? And you listen to each other and engage in conversation, and everybody gets a moment to share, but you also then collect 10 different perspectives on 10 different sparks.

[37:46] Susan Blackwell: It's almost like the Blue Man Book Club that you were talking about earlier. We're gonna take this book, we're gonna rip it into 10 chunks. Everybody read your chunk and report like go forth, adventure out, come back and tell us what you've seen, heard, read, felt, discovered. That's fun. It's really cool. Good spark. Thanks, Susan. All right, let's take a little breaky poo.

[38:10] Laura Camien: Okay.

[38:12] Susan Blackwell: We're back.

[38:14] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[38:15] Susan Blackwell: I am excited to share this spark with you.

[38:19] Laura Camien: I'm excited.

[38:21] Susan Blackwell: Um since we very first decided to do this show and trade these sparks, I just knew that this was a spark that I was super excited to share. The spark summary is you can create your own spark. And if you have another woman to support you, you can be very, very powerful.

[38:42] Laura Camien: Oh, hello.

[38:45] Susan Blackwell: The individual at the center of the spark is a little someone that we all know and love.

[38:52] Laura Camien: Amy Poehler.

[38:53] Susan Blackwell: Oh, awesome. I know that people go nuts for Tina Fey, and I totally get it. And it's not a contest, and there's plenty of good sparks coming off all the ladies. There's plenty of room for all the awesomeness. But for me, I am just super over the top inspired by Amy Poehler. The things she makes, the things she's accomplished, the way she supports others in the things that they make, her own talents. Cams, there's just something about her. She is such a gifted, funny person. But reading her book, she also has enormous depth, and she likes those big feelings that we like, those big visceral feelings. And I think she really leans towards the center of them like we like. And she thinks about a lot of the things that I think about.

We'll get to some of those later. But she lives in that space that I really love between a poet and a truck driver. She's really sensitive, and she also seems super tough. And there's just this air of positivity and optimism that surrounds her work. So without further ado, I would like to offer you the spark that is Amy Poehler.

[40:04] Laura Camien: Um, sources of my spark.

[40:06] Susan Blackwell: The majority of it comes from her book, Yes Please, which was published in 2014. And some of this is from Wikipedia. Thanks, Wikipedia. Thanks, Mickey. Amy Poehler. Don't know her middle name.

[40:18] Laura Camien: That's all right.

[40:18] Susan Blackwell: Amy Poehler. Born September 16th, 1971 in Newton, Massachusetts. Her mom is Eileen Poehler. Her dad is Bill Poehler. I think they're both teachers. She grew up in what she calls a lower middle class household in Burlington, Massachusetts. Go lower middle class. She was the first child, and she has a younger brother named Greg, who was born three years later. Amy Poehler reported that her first laugh came when she was playing Dorothy in a Wildwood elementary school production of The Wizard of Oz.

[40:50] Laura Camien: Did you happen to catch that production?

[40:52] Susan Blackwell: I missed that. She was in fourth grade. She says it was then that she realized she could decide right then and there what the next moment would be. The power of improv. She could try something new. She could go off script and give it a shot. She could say whatever she wanted. So they're doing The Wizard of Oz. It's the second night of their two show run. And during the middle of the storm scene, she puts the dog down and she says, "Toto, where are you?" And she got this laugh. And she has been chasing that high ever since. She says, uh, this emboldened her to try out for her senior musical Once Upon a Mattress. She was cast in the role of Princess Winifred, which was the role originated by Carol Burnett, whom Amy loves.

She said that while doing the high school musical, she learned that she loved being in a theater, attending rehearsals, building sets, and that she had floated into the right social pool, which for a lot of us theater nerds is something we can really relate to.

[41:50] Laura Camien: That's right. Find your people.

[41:52] Susan Blackwell: That's right. She said she had already made a decision early on that she would be a plain girl with tons of personality and accepting it made everything a lot easier.

[42:01] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[42:02] Susan Blackwell: Words, truthful words. So much of her writing just puts words to these free-floating thoughts and feelings that I have had.

[42:11] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[42:11] Susan Blackwell: Which is always such a satisfying thing. You know.

[42:14] Laura Camien: So she graduated from Burlington High School in 1989. She attended Boston College and was part of the improv comedy group called My Mother's Flea Bag in 1993. She graduated with a bachelor's in media and communications, whatever that is. And then she moved to Chicago where she was waitressing and taking classes. And she says it was an awesome time. I was extremely poor and had little to do. I painted my tiny bedroom bango, starry night purple. I smoked a lot of pot. I would ride my bike to shows while listening to the Beastie Boys. I was 22 and I had found what I loved.

[42:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[42:50] Susan Blackwell: And I'm just like, good for you, Amy Poehler. I'm almost 52. And I'm just now finding what I love. That's not true. But I love that she, I don't know. I feel like she had some sort of clarity as a younger person that hats off to you, Amy Poehler. This I know this is a sidetrack, and I apologize in advance, but just even what she said about like determining early on that she was going to be a plain girl with a lot of personality. First of all, she's beautiful, she's beautiful, period. Full stop. But I envy, I do feel like sometimes when girls or women make a decision early on, like I'm not going to be able to do it. Yeah, I'm not trading on my looks. I'm not chasing beauty because you will spend your life chasing it. So I sometimes I fantasize about the amount of time and mental energy that gets freed up when you decide that's not for me.

[43:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[43:43] Susan Blackwell: That's I'm not going to focus on that. I'm not going to focus on that. I mean, she's beautiful. She doesn't need to focus on it. But when you're just like, hey, I'm gonna focus my energy on being really great at this. Or you know, I just I admire that a lot. So she's in Chicago. The first Second City show at the famous Second City Theater of Improv. The first Second City show she ever saw was Amy Sedaris's last show. And that cast included Stephen Colbert and Steve Carell. So slide into those DMs. Amazing. She was taking classes at the Improv Olympics, which was run by a woman named Charna Halpern. Charna is who connected Amy with Tina Fey, um, who is also new in town. Thank you, Tina. And taking improv classes at Improv Olympics and Side Spark. I think we need to open up a whole separate Sparkfile folder on Charna Halpern. It's amazing what this woman has created.

[44:38] Laura Camien: Okay.

[44:39] Susan Blackwell: Well, first of all, she gave us that combo. There you go. But and so much more. Okay. So Amy Poehler also took improv classes from Del Close, the famous lunatic improv guru, and from Matt Besser, who would end up being her boyfriend and also co-founder of the Upright Citizens Brigade, along with Ian Walsh and Matt Walsh. And that foursome is known as the UCB4.

[45:01] Laura Camien: Wow.

[45:02] Susan Blackwell: That original foursome, legendary. It sounds like Matt Besser was really just like a fascinating person, but is also was the engine of UCB. And he had the big vision that eventually led to higher visibility creations, like the UCB TV show, their book, their school, their theater. They wrote this thing called the UCB comedy improvisation manual. Like they were getting it done. Um, anywho, Tina and Amy auditioned separately for Second City's Touring Company and got cast together, and they traveled all over the United States in a van. They got paid $65 per show.

[45:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[45:44] Susan Blackwell: How about that? And Amy kept on improvising with all of these people and other greats like David Koechner and Horatio Sanz. And it just the comic legends, just crazy. Anyway, the Upright Citizens Brigade moved to New York City in 1996. And Amy writes, and I love this. It's easier to be brave when you're not alone. We were young and foolish and didn't know what we were up against. Thank God. We said goodbye to our friends in our cheap and beautiful apartment in the scary neighborhood. We packed all of our things and my yellow lab Suki and pulled away in a U-Haul truck. We had no apartment or job or place to perform in New York City. I didn't really know who I was, but improv had taught me that I could be anyone.

I didn't have to wait to be cast. I could give myself the part. I could be an old man or a teenage babysitter or a rodeo clown. In three short years, Chicago had taught me that I could decide who I was. My only job was to surround myself with people who respected and supported that choice. Being foolish was the smartest thing to do.

[46:52] Laura Camien: I freaking love it.

[46:54] Susan Blackwell: So good. I love that bravery. And I also love that dawning sense of personal agency.

[46:59] Laura Camien: Yes.

[47:00] Susan Blackwell: That I do not have to wait for external opportunity for somebody to give me a chance to play the fill in the blank.

[47:08] Laura Camien: It's everything.

[47:09] Susan Blackwell: Everything. You know, I have this ongoing conversation with Celia Keenan-Bolger that I don't think I've ever talked about on mic, which is when we were comparing notes about if I've still sorry if I've said this before, but we were talking about how you can scrilt to for the gods and you can kick so high that you kick your own face and you can be a triple threat. But really, confidence. There's nothing if you don't have confidence, which is hard to come by.

[47:39] Laura Camien: That's right.

[47:45] Susan Blackwell: Well, knowing that you can create your your own opportunities would give you confidence, would build your confidence. So it's like a it's a circle that feeds itself, you know, because when you're constantly waiting for someone to determine that you are good enough or that you are what they want. You're giving somebody else the measuring stick.

[48:03] Laura Camien: That's right.

[48:04] Susan Blackwell: No thanks. So when she got to New York City, she was making appearances on Conan as Andy Richter's little sister Stacy. And I don't know if you've ever seen any of them, but it is so funny. She's so little, and she's just got this mouthful of braces, and she's usually sitting in the audience, and it usually ends with her like running onto the stage and just like wrapping herself around Conan O'Brien. It's really funny. Um, she waited tables at this at that time. She was actually, I think she was actually living near me. She was on the corner of Bleaker in 10th Street by the old Kim's video.

[48:37] Laura Camien: Ring a bell.

[48:38] Susan Blackwell: Yep. I just walked by there. Yeah, and I was a little further south, uh, down by Murray's cheese shop and Corny Street Cafe. May it rest in peace. And I knew of Amy's work, but I didn't know her. Um, in 1996, she worked as a server and opened the restaurant Aqua Grill down in Soho, which is still down there on Spring Street. It may have been served by her there.

[49:00] Laura Camien: Right.

[49:00] Susan Blackwell: Totally. Um, I love this because I want people to hear that like Amy Poehler just didn't like pop out of the womb as the Amy Poehler that you know and love. She worked. Also, you can have a gig, um, a sometime gig on Conan O'Brien and still become serving at Aqua Grill.

[49:17] Laura Camien: That's right.

[49:18] Susan Blackwell: Um, Amy wanted to make her living as an actor. She wanted to pay off her student loans and get health insurance. She mentions that her first waitressing job was in the summer of 1989 before she left for college. She scooped ice cream at a place called Chadwick's to pay for her textbooks, which is to say she seems to have paid her way through school and supported herself throughout all of this, which is a huge badass accomplishment. Jumping back, so the UCB. So first it was the group, then it was a show on Comedy Central. It aired on Wednesday nights after another brand new show called South Park. Their show ran for three seasons. South Park is still on. And that's where Amy learned how to be in front of a camera and manage long work days. That group was also teaching improv classes and eventually secured their own theater on 22nd Street, and eventually they moved to that theater on 26th Street under the Christities.

[50:16] Susan Blackwell: I did my first Broadway play at that theater when it was it used to be the American Jewish Theater, but then the UCB opened and then it got cool.

[50:25] Laura Camien: Um in 2005, UCB opened their first theater in LA.

[50:30] Susan Blackwell: That same year, they shot a one-hour special for Bravo called AssCat, which was their improv show.

[50:35] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[50:36] Susan Blackwell: In 2008, they launched the comedy website UCB Comedy.com.

[50:40] Laura Camien: In 2010, they became an accredited theater school.

[50:44] Susan Blackwell: In 2014, they opened up a new UCB training center in New York City and a big new theater space in LA.

[50:50] Laura Camien: And the UCB has really trained some of the greatest comedic performers and writers of our day.

[50:56] Susan Blackwell: Their motto is don't think, just get out of your head, stop planning and go.

[51:01] Laura Camien: But listen, these are our contemporaries, and they built really like world class, a world class institution.

[51:10] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[51:11] Laura Camien: I just think it's wonderful.

[51:12] Susan Blackwell: And whenever we get cranky or tired, I just think suck it up, buttercup.

[51:18] Laura Camien: That's right.

[51:18] Susan Blackwell: We got work to do.

[51:19] Laura Camien: We got miles to go before we sleep.

[51:22] Susan Blackwell: Um jump forward to Saturday Night Live.

[51:25] Laura Camien: Amy Poehler, you know I love Saturday Night Live.

[51:28] Susan Blackwell: I really never miss it.

[51:30] Laura Camien: I've always loved it.

[51:31] Susan Blackwell: I've never been a hater on that show.

[51:33] Laura Camien: I've always been a lover of that show.

[51:35] Susan Blackwell: I found Amy to be so bold and so free and so fresh when she was on that show.

[51:41] Laura Camien: And she said that she wrote some of her favorite scenes with a writer named Emily Spivey, and that they would huddle together on Tuesday writing nights and would try to do what they called a jam out, which basically meant writing something fast and fun.

[51:55] Susan Blackwell: And one of the characters that came out of that was Caitlin, a hyperactive girl with a heart of gold, which is one of my favorite characters I've ever seen.

[52:05] Laura Camien: If you haven't seen it, just Google Caitlin.

[52:08] Susan Blackwell: It's her, it's Horatio Sands playing her stepdad.

[52:11] Laura Camien: And it is she's just free and delightful.

[52:15] Susan Blackwell: So thank you, Amy Poehler.

[52:17] Laura Camien: Thank you, Emily Spivey for that creation.

[52:19] Susan Blackwell: She also talked a lot about crying a great deal at SNL.

[52:25] Laura Camien: This is a quote from her.

[52:27] Susan Blackwell: I cried a lot in Maya Rudolph's office and Spivey's office and in elevators.

[52:31] Laura Camien: Some of the crying was from exhaustion or stress, and some of it was just the bitter burn of rejection.

[52:37] Susan Blackwell: And I just think of you and I, Cam's, I mean, I fully like, I will fully walk in on you having what we call a broadcast news moment where you're Holly Hunter and it's just stress coming out of your face.

[52:50] Laura Camien: Just gotta get it out.

[52:51] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[52:51] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[52:51] Susan Blackwell: And it just that made me laugh.

[52:53] Laura Camien: And there's nothing, just like cry it out, and then the clouds pass and then you move on.

[52:58] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[52:58] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[52:58] Susan Blackwell: Well, I think that my life changed the minute I realized like it's no big deal.

[53:03] Laura Camien: Just cry.

[53:03] Susan Blackwell: Just cry it out.

[53:04] Laura Camien: Yeah, you're gonna feel better.

[53:05] Susan Blackwell: It's it's not that different than like when you feel like you need to throw up and you don't want to, and then you do, and you're like, I feel so much better.

[53:13] Laura Camien: I've done that an hour ago.

[53:14] Susan Blackwell: Exactly.

[53:15] Laura Camien: Um this is a quote from Amy.

[53:18] Susan Blackwell: A lot of people ask me if I knew I was going to be on SNL.

[53:20] Laura Camien: I think the simple answer is yes.

[53:22] Susan Blackwell: I don't mean to sound cocky.

[53:24] Laura Camien: I don't know if I had the talent or drive.

[53:26] Susan Blackwell: I just had a tiny little voice whispering inside of me.

[53:29] Laura Camien: That same voice would tell me I would meet Carol Burnett someday.

[53:33] Susan Blackwell: I would find love, I would be okay.

[53:35] Laura Camien: We all have a tiny whispery voice inside of us, but the bad ones are usually at a lower register and come through a little clearer.

[53:43] Susan Blackwell: I don't know where the good voice came from.

[53:46] Laura Camien: It was a mix of loving parents, luck, and me.

[53:49] Susan Blackwell: But ever since I was a small child, I would look at places where I wanted to be and believe I would eventually be on the other side of the glass.

[53:59] Laura Camien: Yes.

[53:59] Susan Blackwell: There's that confidence again.

[54:01] Laura Camien: But there's also something, I don't know.

[54:04] Susan Blackwell: There's something about that sh that sh surety and that certainty about having a personal vision and knowing that you can that you can do it.

[54:14] Laura Camien: You can step into the vision.

[54:16] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[54:16] Laura Camien: I love it.

[54:17] Susan Blackwell: Uh you know, I think you and I have talked about this a little bit.

[54:21] Laura Camien: Um, just like growing up in the Midwest, I had this sensation, and I don't think I was alone, of just that like there was an impossibility to certain things.

[54:32] Susan Blackwell: And I had a still small voice as well that was very positive.

[54:36] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[54:36] Susan Blackwell: But it sounds crazy to other people if you say it out loud when you're you know in to be Kansas.

[54:42] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[54:42] Susan Blackwell: And um there was just a sensation of like, oh, that stuff is so unattainable and so far away.

[54:52] Laura Camien: And I gotta again, like commend her parents because I think that's a lot of it too.

[54:57] Susan Blackwell: To for you know, for her having this belief system of like, it might be far away, but I can get there.

[55:02] Laura Camien: Yeah, I'll be there and that's fine.

[55:03] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[55:04] Laura Camien: I don't know, it's pretty much.

[55:05] Susan Blackwell: I love it.

[55:06] Laura Camien: When I read it, I was simultaneously, I was impressed, I was inspired.

[55:10] Susan Blackwell: I was a little bit bummed because I don't know that my deserve levels have always been that high or well defined.

[55:17] Laura Camien: I don't know if I could always envision myself like that, especially as a younger person, the way that Amy Poehler is talking about it.

[55:23] Susan Blackwell: But I like now that I'm a little older and a little wiser.

[55:28] Laura Camien: I think I have cultivated those powers a little bit more clearly.

[55:32] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[55:33] Laura Camien: It's a it's a fun way to live.

[55:36] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[55:36] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[55:36] Susan Blackwell: I like it.

[55:37] Laura Camien: Jump forward, Sparks and Recreation.

[55:40] Susan Blackwell: Mike Schur was Amy's friend and co-worker at SNL, and he went on to create Sparks and Rec, I believe, with Greg Daniels.

[55:47] Laura Camien: He described the all of this is totally fact-checkable, just didn't do it.

[55:51] Susan Blackwell: So he described the character of Leslie Knope as being the embodiment of the yes we can spirit of the Obama election, which I think is a really interesting spark.

[56:00] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[56:00] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[56:02] Laura Camien: Um he said she believed it only took one person to make a difference.

[56:06] Susan Blackwell: She wanted to affect change.

[56:08] Laura Camien: She wanted to someday be president, but most importantly, she wanted to turn an empty lot in her town into a park.

[56:15] Susan Blackwell: Love that spark.

[56:16] Laura Camien: Um Amy said something about her Sparks and Rec co-star Chris Pratt that I think about all the time, which is he constantly reminds me to stay loose and have fun.

[56:27] Susan Blackwell: And I know that seems like a small penny word sentence.

[56:31] Laura Camien: Oh boy.

[56:32] Susan Blackwell: But it is a great thing to have a Chris Pratt living embodiment of that sort of like the reminder to stay loose and have fun.

[56:42] Laura Camien: I have to say that working at Blue Man Group for many, many years, those guys are professional clowns.

[56:50] Susan Blackwell: They are loose and in the moment, down to clown, ready to play.

[56:56] Laura Camien: Like I can't speak for all of them, but a good 80% of them any given day.

[57:02] Susan Blackwell: So you're stuck in your like office mode mindset and one encounter with any of them, and you're like, oh, that's right.

[57:11] Laura Camien: Life is fun.

[57:12] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[57:12] Laura Camien: Life is fun.

[57:13] Susan Blackwell: And this doesn't handle around like that.

[57:15] Laura Camien: Yeah, I can imagine Chris Pratt would just be a delight.

[57:19] Susan Blackwell: Love that.

[57:19] Laura Camien: Just before we move on from Sparks and Rec, uh Amy Poehler cites, I think in her book, she she lists like she talks about each cast member and she talks about one of her favorite memories from that.

[57:32] Susan Blackwell: Oh, how sweet.

[57:33] Laura Camien: Which is so fun.

[57:34] Susan Blackwell: But she cites the Jerry Fart attack moment in the Halloween surprise episode as the time she laughed the hardest.

[57:42] Laura Camien: I don't know if you've ever seen it.

[57:44] Susan Blackwell: It makes me laugh so hard.

[57:45] Laura Camien: We're at the Halloween party, they're all in costume, and Jerry is having a heart attack, and he's having a heart attack, and he it's I guess I don't know if this was based in medicine or if it's for pure comic effect, but he has terrible, terrible flatulence.

[58:04] Susan Blackwell: And some of the jokes are some of the funniest jokes I've ever seen on TV.

[58:08] Laura Camien: Anyway, check it out.

[58:11] Susan Blackwell: Spark attack.

[58:12] Laura Camien: So here's some here's a tossed.

[58:14] Susan Blackwell: Here's a seven bean salad of sparks.

[58:16] Laura Camien: Amy says she's not great at auditioning.

[58:19] Susan Blackwell: She says she would be nervous and then underprepare and act too cool for school.

[58:24] Laura Camien: Quote I would try to reject them before they rejected me, which was confusing since I had decided to audition and then acted angry to be there, which I completely 100% relate to regarding Tina Fey, whom Amy describes as her partner in crime and her comedy wife.

[58:42] Susan Blackwell: She says, We don't compete against each other, we compete against ourselves.

[58:47] Laura Camien: And she also said, and I love this more than I can tell you.

[58:51] Susan Blackwell: Tina shows her love for you by writing for you.

[58:55] Laura Camien: Oh Cam, you have shown your love for me by writing for me.

[58:58] Susan Blackwell: I think I'm gonna cry.

[59:00] Laura Camien: It's I what a beautiful thing to give the gift of your profound creativity and talent to somebody.

[59:09] Susan Blackwell: I have written for you soon.

[59:12] Laura Camien: Like, well, what is the point of doing any shows without Susan Blackwell?

[59:15] Susan Blackwell: But especially, but you're sweet.

[59:16] Laura Camien: But I'll tell you when I was like, I can't let this business is too hard.

[59:20] Susan Blackwell: Auditioning sucks my balls.

[59:22] Laura Camien: Like you kept me in the game.

[59:24] Susan Blackwell: You kept me in the game, kid.

[59:25] Laura Camien: I'm here for you.

[59:26] Susan Blackwell: There you go.

[59:27] Laura Camien: Um, Amy's motto has always been do work that you are proud of with your talented friends, which I relate to.

[59:35] Susan Blackwell: My motto has been do work that you love with people that you love, and make a shit ton of money doing it if you can.

[59:41] Laura Camien: But I but that's so I feel her, and she rejects the idea that creativity needs to come from chaos.

[59:48] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[59:48] Laura Camien: Which I also love.

[59:50] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[59:51] Laura Camien: Love, love, love, love, love.

[59:53] Susan Blackwell: Love.

[59:54] Laura Camien: I'm also deeply inspired by the spark that Amy Poehler has.

[59:58] Susan Blackwell: She's not afraid of confrontation.

[1:00:00] Laura Camien: Wow.

[1:00:01] Susan Blackwell: She tells the story in her book about being on a flight from New York to Toronto with Tina Fey and Anna Gasteyer on their way to shoot Mean Girls.

[1:00:07] Laura Camien: And there was some business dude in first class who was like tisking them for chatting and laughing.

[1:00:12] Susan Blackwell: When they got off the plane and were headed for the walkway, he pushed past her and jostled her a bit.

[1:00:17] Laura Camien: He bumped into her on purpose so he could scold her and then told her that they had been talking the whole time and shouldn't be in first class.

[1:00:24] Susan Blackwell: And her she said her lower middle class Boston-ness rose to the surface.

[1:00:29] Laura Camien: She just leaned back and yelled, fuck you.

[1:00:34] Susan Blackwell: And then chased him as he tried to get away from her.

[1:00:38] Laura Camien: And I wish I just had a little thimble, a little teeny tiny shot glass of that.

[1:00:45] Susan Blackwell: Because I think that fighting spirit.

[1:00:56] Laura Camien: That's like, hey, fuck you.

[1:00:57] Susan Blackwell: You don't get to, you don't get to scold me like I'm a child.

[1:00:59] Laura Camien: Yeah, but I feel like this next part I think is a continuation of that.

[1:01:03] Susan Blackwell: And I just love it.

[1:01:04] Laura Camien: She goes on to say that what people think of her doesn't bother her like it did when she was younger.

[1:01:08] Susan Blackwell: She says that kind of feeling would have been hard to hold in my heart and my stomach when I was in my 20s.

[1:01:14] Laura Camien: It was hard to feel like someone didn't like me.

[1:01:16] Susan Blackwell: It felt like such a failure.

[1:01:17] Laura Camien: I don't care as much now.

[1:01:19] Susan Blackwell: It's really great.

[1:01:20] Laura Camien: It's like I can finally eat spicy food without the gut ache later or something similar.

[1:01:24] Susan Blackwell: I have a stomach for other people not stomaching me, or at least I'm working on it.

[1:01:30] Laura Camien: I love that.

[1:01:31] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[1:01:33] Laura Camien: It's so important too because no, it's not imp it's just impossible.

[1:01:37] Susan Blackwell: Not everyone's gonna like it.

[1:01:38] Laura Camien: I know.

[1:01:39] Susan Blackwell: You better stomach it.

[1:01:40] Laura Camien: I know.

[1:01:41] Susan Blackwell: I just I love it.

[1:01:42] Laura Camien: And it's like so many people, guests makers that we've had on Microsoft.

[1:01:46] Susan Blackwell: I just remember when Sara Bareilles said this was after we were done, we'd packed up all the equipment, and she was like, Are you excited?

[1:01:53] Laura Camien: You're doing a podcast.

[1:01:54] Susan Blackwell: Have I talked about this on here?

[1:01:55] Laura Camien: I don't know.

[1:01:56] Susan Blackwell: I think so.

[1:01:56] Laura Camien: And shh, and I was like, I'll be honest with you, Sara Bareilles.

[1:02:01] Susan Blackwell: I'm so scared, they're going to come for us.

[1:02:04] Laura Camien: And she was like, Oh, they will, they will.

[1:02:07] Susan Blackwell: And I was like, huh?

[1:02:09] Laura Camien: And she was like, They absolutely will.

[1:02:11] Susan Blackwell: And I think it's that Sara Bareilles, that Amy Poehler sentiment of people's opinions about you.

[1:02:18] Laura Camien: It does, it just doesn't, it's none of your business.

[1:02:20] Susan Blackwell: It's none of your business.

[1:02:21] Laura Camien: People's opinions about you are none of your business.

[1:02:24] Susan Blackwell: The only way to not garner some negative attention from people is to be so inconsequential, not do anything or say anything.

[1:02:35] Laura Camien: Draw no attention to yourself.

[1:02:37] Susan Blackwell: I mean, really, make nothing.

[1:02:38] Laura Camien: That's no way to live that.

[1:02:40] Susan Blackwell: She also does this whole fantastic chapter on apologizing, leaning straight into big heartfelt apologies.

[1:02:48] Laura Camien: And I've just been thinking so much lately about apologies and other ways of cleaning up after ourselves and closing loops, little loops, big loops.

[1:02:56] Susan Blackwell: And I made up this new rule, and this is true for that relationships. It's true for, um, it's just a side spark objects like if I buy something at an estate sale or thrift store, whatever. Yeah, if you're going to bring it into your life, a pet, whatever, you've got to be ready to take care of it. Like the I know that's a weird jump, but it does. It's if you're gonna, if you're gonna bring it into your life, you have to be ready to take care of it. I think that might be a real non sequitur.

[1:03:29] Laura Camien: No, I think that makes sense.

[1:03:30] Susan Blackwell: Does it?

[1:03:31] Laura Camien: It does.

[1:03:31] Susan Blackwell: Great. Um, but we're also we have gone around the bend.

[1:03:36] Laura Camien: Okay.

[1:03:37] Susan Blackwell: So jump for it again.

[1:03:39] Laura Camien: Okay. I want to talk about Smart Girls at the Party. Founded in 2008, their motto, change the world by being yourself. It was founded by Amy Poehler, producer Meredith Walker. This is from their website. Amy Poehler's Smart Girls Organization is dedicated to helping young people cultivate their authentic selves. We emphasize intelligence and imagination over fitting in. We celebrate curiosity over gossip. We are a place where people can truly be their weird and wonderful selves. We are funny first and informative second.

[1:04:10] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[1:04:14] Laura Camien: Hosting the party you want to attend.

[1:04:16] Susan Blackwell: Hell yeah.

[1:04:17] Laura Camien: Hell yes. I wow. So I'm sorry, I'm just like the giving you a giant Amy Poehler 10,000 foot overview. I gave you a spark salad. Now you're giving me a spark salad.

[1:04:26] Susan Blackwell: It's good.

[1:04:28] Laura Camien: It's a ton of sparks. Did you come to the Sparks Salad buffet? Um that Susan, that gets me because I thought a lot about this. Um in my younger years, uh, you know, somewhere around fourth grade, I would say, um, I wasn't cognizant at the time, like I couldn't articulate why, but in retrospect, girls around that age would stop doing anything when they got together, except like wait for boys to call.

[1:04:54] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:04:55] Laura Camien: Um, or what could we do that could get the boys' attention? Or um, oh, let's ride by that boy's house on our bikes. And it stopped being about like what do we want to do or be. And meanwhile, the boys are getting together and they're playing sports or you know, doing things living life.

[1:05:15] Susan Blackwell: Living life, yeah, right.

[1:05:17] Laura Camien: And I, in retrospect, I just think, oh my God, if you can, if you could reach girls at that critical age and be like, the boys will be there. You will attract the boys, trust me. But what if you kept your mind on things that truly interested you beyond that?

[1:05:33] Susan Blackwell: It's interesting.

[1:05:34] Laura Camien: Yeah. I think I feel like Amy Poehler is on to that and Smart Girls is all about that. I also think it's ironic that Amy Poehler ended up having two boys.

[1:05:43] Susan Blackwell: She's raising two boys, which is also a great contribution to the world.

[1:05:46] Laura Camien: That's raising boys well. Um jump forward again. I want to talk about Amy's work with Dr. Jane Aronson and the Worldwide Orphans Foundation. Amy met Dr. Jane Aronson at this fancy event hosted by Glamour Magazine. Both of them were being given the Glamour Women of the Year Award. And I would just like to read this passage, which I love. Dr. Jane Aronson and I were at a fancy party thrown by Glamour Magazine when we fell in love. We were both given being given a Glamour Women of the Year award. This type of award is really nice to win and also slightly embarrassing. It's hard to be surrounded by women who stood up against a totalitarian regime and talk to them about my experiences writing sketches where a girl farts a lot.

Jane had founded the Worldwide Orphans Foundation, which addresses the medical, social, and educational needs of children living in orphanages in over 11 countries. But it wasn't until I heard Jane speak that the abstract idea of her work became real. She spoke plainly and openly about how every child in the world deserves the basic things in life: food, clothes, safety, shelter, and love. She was joined on stage by many orphans whose lives she had changed. She cried, I cried, we all cried. And then Bill Clinton introduced Maya Angelou. And I thought to myself, what the fuck am I doing here?

[1:07:09] Susan Blackwell: Love it.

[1:07:10] Laura Camien: So in 2013, right when she was in the middle of her divorce from Will Arnett, Amy traveled with Dr. Jane to Haiti. And it had been rocked by that devastating earthquake. And on that trip, Amy got rocked by the work that they were doing there. She goes on to talk about meeting the people and the children in Haiti and how it almost sounds like what I think of as like where the top of your head opens up and your world perspective opens up. Um it just seemed so, uh, like a profound life experience for her. And there's this little passage that night I read the deeply calm and at times sneakily funny Pema Chödrön, one of my favorite writers. And then she quotes Pema Chödrön. There are no promises. Look deeply at joy and sorrow, at laughing and crying, at hoping and fearing, at all that lives and dies. What truly heals is gratitude and tenderness. Which I thought was there's something about Amy Poehler being a girl who can really land a fart joke.

[1:08:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:08:21] Laura Camien: And I really think she lives in this space between poet and truck driver that I love with all my heart so much.

[1:08:31] Susan Blackwell: Yes. I'm also struck by the diversity of the work that Amy Poehler produces and how high the quality of that diverse work is. As an example, Amy helped make, uh, she co-wrote and executive produced, um, Russian Doll.

[1:08:49] Laura Camien: Oh, that's right.

[1:08:50] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And she also is involved in the making and the hosting of Making It, which is a like a crafting competition.

[1:08:59] Laura Camien: That's right.

[1:08:59] Susan Blackwell: DIY competition.

[1:09:01] Laura Camien: So different, these projects.

[1:09:04] Susan Blackwell: Yep.

[1:09:05] Laura Camien: So such different pieces of entertainment, both I love so much.

[1:09:10] Susan Blackwell: Just love.

[1:09:11] Laura Camien: Well, even the charity work that you just described, you know, the organizations that she has either founded or gotten involved with, it feels like she's living like the full spectrum. Like if something moves her or moves a part of her, um it doesn't have to be the end all be all of everything. This can be a show that appeals to crafters. And this can be a show of because it appeals to all of them.

[1:09:39] Susan Blackwell: Well, these parts of her.

[1:09:40] Laura Camien: That's right.

[1:09:41] Susan Blackwell: 100%.

[1:09:42] Laura Camien: That's right. One of the major sparks that I take away from Amy Poehler is about being free and seemingly fearless. It's that improv background, that swinging for the fences and then apologizing and cleaning up your shit later if need be. She seems to fight really hard for the powers of good, and she's not afraid of conflict or people not liking her. And I have to tell you, I aspire to all of that.

[1:10:06] Laura Camien: Shit, me too.

[1:10:07] Susan Blackwell: All of it.

[1:10:08] Laura Camien: Hey, can I ask you a question? Did she talk about fear in her book at all?

[1:10:14] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:10:15] Laura Camien: Because, like you had just you just mentioned seemingly fearless. And in so many of our conversations with makers, what we have discovered is like the fear does not go away.

[1:10:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:10:25] Laura Camien: You simply learn how to work despite feeling fear.

[1:10:30] Susan Blackwell: She uses these words to talk about Dr. Jane, but I would use these words to talk about her. I think she's a big wave rider. Like I just feel like, in even if it's in the realm of entertainment, I feel like she, yes, there's fear, but I also think she has in many ways mastered many kinds of fear, is what it seems like to me.

[1:10:50] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:10:51] Susan Blackwell: Um interesting. That's just that's just Susan's hot take. But I feel like that's right. Um from a New York Times article that came out when they were promoting their movie Sisters, written by Paula Pell and directed by my homeboy Jason Moore. Even in Sisters, Ms. Poehler said there's an underlying theme, if you will, about a sense of agency. The message is that you can create your own spark, and if you have another woman to support you, you can be very, very powerful.

[1:11:22] Laura Camien: Oh, which makes me fall in love with her yet again.

[1:11:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I don't like deifying people, and I never put people on pedestals because I don't roll like that. But I have I really But if I did now she'd be close. But I really there's so much when I dip into the pool of Amy Poehler, there's so much that I'm like, I just love it. I love what she makes. I love the way she carries herself in the world.

[1:11:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:11:52] Susan Blackwell: I, like all of us, I think she's an imperfect, flawed person. And then she cleans her fucking shit up. Like I just I love it. And I love her confidence and I love her. Like I like that she's not afraid of people not liking her. And I like that she is not afraid of if someone comes for her, she'll come for that. Like I I like it. I like it. I'm very sparked by it.

[1:12:17] Laura Camien: And I agree that if you have another woman to support you, you can be very powerful.

[1:12:21] Susan Blackwell: Lord Kimmy.

[1:12:24] Laura Camien: And other fine people in my life.

[1:12:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:12:27] Laura Camien: That's right.

[1:12:27] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Very, very thankful. Um, and for all of us to, you know, have the people cheering us on along the way.

[1:12:36] Laura Camien: Yeah, for sure.

[1:12:37] Susan Blackwell: That's my spark.

[1:12:39] Laura Camien: That's my spark.

[1:12:40] Susan Blackwell: I'm sticking to it.

[1:12:41] Laura Camien: That's gonna be my new sign off.

[1:12:43] Susan Blackwell: That's my spark, and I'm sticking to it. I'm Susan Blackwell, and this has been sparks.

[1:12:52] Laura Camien: That's it.

[1:12:53] Susan Blackwell: I think that's an incredible spark. I think she really lights up a lot of things. And I agree. I don't put people on pedestals, but I do think it's so exciting when you do discover or meet someone that you can admire.

[1:13:08] Laura Camien: Faults and all, you know, yeah.

[1:13:09] Susan Blackwell: It's not, it's not that they're without fault, but um people who can inspire you to be the fullest expression of yourself that you can be.

[1:13:20] Laura Camien: Love it.

[1:13:20] Susan Blackwell: Love her, love it. Thanks, Amy Poehler. Thanks for living it. Thanks for sharing it. That's it. I hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and you fed it into a flame and you'd like to share that, email us at thesparkfile@gmail.com or submit it through our fancy website. We've got a website, and that website address is thesparkfile.com. At that website address, we will even take your feedback. But you know the price of admission. First, you gotta share a creative risk that you have taken recently. And be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe, rate, five star review it. If you like this podcast, it would make a big difference to us if you would share it with people you love.

[1:14:05] Laura Camien: Yes, it would.

[1:14:05] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, in the words of NSYNC, bye bye, bye, bye, bye.

[1:14:11] Laura Camien: That's all I got.

[1:14:12] Susan Blackwell: That's all I could get the rights to.

[1:14:14] Laura Camien: That many notes.

[1:14:16] Susan Blackwell: Oh Lord, if something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame. You gotta scrawl it, you gotta draw it, you gotta invent a creative factory and totes and dewarhaul it.

[1:14:39] Laura Camien: Call back photographiska amazing.

[1:14:43] Susan Blackwell: You gotta take it and make it.

[1:14:46] Laura Camien: Bye, friends.

[1:14:49] Susan Blackwell: Loop de loo.

[1:14:51] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, dump it in the spark files. Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark files. I jump into my spark files. Sparkfiles. Let's open up the spark files.