This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:14] Laura Camien: Spark file!

[0:19] Susan Blackwell: To be something that I want to make or how I want to be, I pump it in my spark file.

[0:26] Laura Camien: Spark!

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my sparks.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:45] Laura Camien: And I'm Laura Camien. If you're an OG listener, welcome back, Sparkler. If you're joining us for the first time, you should know that all are welcome here. Whether you have put your creativity on pause during this time or you've clung to it like a lifeline. Either way, welcome. But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it? These are such good questions. And we actually do have answers.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: We do.

[1:08] Laura Camien: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations. Here's the deal. We're makers, we make all kinds of things. If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry, especially now. But don't despair because we are on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this very podcast. Or a creativity affirming, life changing TED Talk that is seen by more humans on earth than any other. Or a life in your element, applying your imagination and using your creativity. Or a definition that expands the very idea of creativity and its potential impact on the world.

[2:04] Susan Blackwell: As many of you know, every episode of The Spark File podcast, we reach into our Sparks File and we exchange some sparks. Spark, spark, sparks. And from time to time, we talk to folks who spark us too. But this is no ordinary episode of The Spark File. This episode is dedicated to the memory of one of our creative heroes, Sir Ken Robinson. Join me, gentle sparklers, as Laura Camien shares the tale of how Sir Ken walked into her life and ended up leaving an indelible impression. And spoiler alert, she also tells me about the Imagine If Festival going on now online at Imagine If.com, celebrating the life and legacy of Sir Ken Robinson. So without further ado, let's open up.

[2:53] Laura Camien: Suze, as you well know, I spent the first part of the pandemic set up at the dining room table.

[2:59] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[3:03] Laura Camien: So I just sort of like rooted in the dining room. But more recently, we made some room for me to set up like a dedicated office space. Talk about beauty.

[3:15] Susan Blackwell: So, oh, thank you. I feel very, very grateful and very privileged and you know, just just very thankful to have this little space.

[3:24] Laura Camien: It is, it does help you work when you're, you know, you're able to focus a little bit more. Wes isn't trying to like fry chicken during my presentation, you know, things like that. He come in for lunch, and I'm like, you can't eat right now.

[3:38] Susan Blackwell: Um so anyway, it's good.

[3:40] Laura Camien: You can't fry chicken, we're trying to podcast.

[3:45] Laura Camien: So I have been trying to like clean out and reorganize rather than just move things around. So it takes longer, but I also think it's more fun.

[3:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[3:56] Laura Camien: And in doing this, I stumbled across this box of like memorabilia from my Blue Man era that I have not opened in years. This particular box was dedicated to like ticket stubs and lanyards and like VIP passes and whatnot. Like just random things like the Royal Variety performance with the Queen of England or the Latin Grammys or the Tonight Show or whatever. It was just a walk down memory lane. It was ridiculous. And as I was sifting through this, I unearthed a memory of an event that I worked on that has a deep correlation to the work that we do now. It's like the bedrock of the creativity belief system we subscribe to now.

[4:48] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[4:48] Laura Camien: I almost couldn't believe the direct connections. It's like this event helped to shape or solidify my belief system around creativity and imagination. Shibbles. So I sat down, I was like, oh my God, this, I can't believe it. So 2009, two of the founders of Blue Man were asked to speak at the Vancouver Peace Summit. And as part of my job, I would help them like prepare for speaking engagements and then accompany them to said speaking engagements. And so this particular event was a panel titled Educating the Heart, Creativity and Well Being. The host of the event was His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who was also part of the panel discussion, along with Murray Gell-Mann, who is a Nobel Peace Prize winner in physics, Dr. Daniel Siegel, who I think I've talked about on the podcast previously. He's the author and director of Mindsight. I think I talked about him because he introduced me to VUGA, Volatile, you know, all of that.

[5:54] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[5:55] Laura Camien: Yep, yep. Eckhart Tolle, the spiritual teacher and author of The Power of Now. But wait, this was a panel discussion?

[6:03] Susan Blackwell: This was a panel discussion.

[6:05] Laura Camien: Jeez, how do you moderate that panel?

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: Very carefully.

[6:10] Laura Camien: And we're not done yet. Matt Goldman and Chris Wink, who not only founded Blue Man Group with Dill Stanton, but they also founded a private school in New York City called Blue School, that I also work for, and I think we've mentioned a few times. And Sir Ken Robinson, world-renowned educator and author of works on creativity and innovation. Pretty highly credentialed group of people, albeit all male.

[6:40] Susan Blackwell: I was gonna say that's a lot of dudes.

[6:42] Laura Camien: That's a lot of dudes. But it's more than a decade later. I don't think that would happen again.

[6:51] Susan Blackwell: I hope I think you I think you're right. I think there's some opportunities and things have changed. But this entire event was just one like creativity gem after another. So right off the bat, Murray Gell-Mann talked about his field of theoretical science and how we deal with the contradictions we encounter in our life and our creative process. The answers, he suggests, come as insights from deep within us. He says the creative mind holds on to unresolved contradictions and continues the search for answers. Then one day, while cooking or shaving or running, or sometimes by a slip of the tongue, the correct answer may come.

[7:41] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[7:42] Laura Camien: All right. And Eckhart Tolle jumped in and added, like, there is a vast, much vaster intelligence in every human being that is non-conceptual that I believe is the source of creativity. Suze, right? I was like, oh my God, we have talked so much. Um, like that concept of having written something and returned to it hours later or days later and had no recollection of writing those words, or when you meditate on something and you wake up in the morning with the answer. Remember, we talked with Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez about this too, like letting your brain work on it. Just let your brain work on it for a while.

[8:28] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[8:29] Laura Camien: Can I also say, okay, you know this. We've talked about this this very week. Sometimes when there is what I call a hanging chad, when there is an unclosed loop, when there is, and that can take the form of unresolved conflict, that can take the form of I can't figure this out. That can take the form of, how will I ever sleep when I don't know what happens after we die? Like that sort of like what I'm taking from what you're saying, one of the things I'm taking is that that actually, those hanging chads and unclosed loops can be a gift. And I just wrote down the gift of the unresolved, because that what was that phrase you just used? That Eckhart was like there's a this sort of vaster intelligence that is not conceptual that is the source of creativity. So that big old swirly soup that is just swirling within us is continuing to work on that, and it may produce future creativity and insight.

[9:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[9:40] Laura Camien: So it's the gift of the unresolved instead of being a torture, which is sometimes how I experience it. And awesome, yes, the physics, Murray Gell-Mann talked about it like as a contradiction. So in your mind, you've got these things that seemingly contradict each other and can't be resolved without some further insight from within. So yeah, the idea of when you say like the great unknown, he thinks of it as like contradictions, but I think it's one in the same. So then Dr. Daniel Siegel talked about the need to promote creativity through education. He believes, and I think this is really interesting, that the three basic R's in education instead of the old reading, writing, arithmetic. The three Rs should be reflection, relationships, and resilience.

[10:46] Laura Camien: He says, right. I'm like, oh my God, did this all like seep in through my pores? And then, like, this is like what we talk about all the time. Um, so he says, reflection prevents our brain from becoming fixed in its way of seeing things. He believes creativity emerges when we generate novelty for the brain. And I love this because it's a lot like searching for sparks, like keeping attuned to new things that resonate within us. Reflection, he says, is a form of mind training, one that takes us beyond fixed ways of thinking. Thus, it liberates creativity and keeps the brain young.

[11:28] Laura Camien: Yes. So I'm like, Suze, you could have been on this panel, like just do you understand like that's what everybody wanted. That's what the people are asking for. Less of Dalai Lama. Some diversity there, some gender diversity. Um, hey, listen to that car go by. Florida hot rods and muscle shirts. Oh, the smartphile booker. So relate and then relationships. Um, he believes that relationships with others who challenge our fixed ways of thinking and provoke us to discover new creative ways of thinking encourage compassion and creativity. Yeah, those two practices help us develop the third R, which is resilience by promoting the kind of training that allows us to look inward and connect with others in a deep, compassionate and kind way. Suze, I think about the spark you did on resilience and just how important it is during these challenging times. I mean really helping students cultivate a strong sense of resilience is one of the greatest things that they could learn.

[12:41] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I want to sidebar on this too for just a second. I think this is a related idea and it might be controversial, but I'm going to risk it. No boy. I'm nervous. Obviously, for years now, there's been a movement to try to teach people to be more conscious of the ways in which we hurt other people's feelings in the things we say or the things we do. And I am 100% for a high level of awareness, um, of personal awareness and a high level of compassion for others. But I also, I don't mean to be negative, but I don't think we're ever going to achieve a kind of utopia where no one ever says anything that hurts anyone's feelings. I just don't think it's a realistic goal. Um sometimes I think, shouldn't we be giving people the tools for how to cope when someone does hurt your feelings?

Like what how to resolve that conflict, what to say or do, how to not spin on it, you know, in your own mind. Like, shouldn't we be giving them those tools rather than trying to train everyone in the world to never hurt anyone's feelings?

[14:09] Laura Camien: I think it's a combo platter. I think it is important. I think as a combo platter, I think it's a combo platter. Yes, and I think it's missing. I think that piece is missing. And that's why it makes me very happy to hear like more conversations about resilience. Because it isn't just, hey, you know, that person hurt my feelings. They need to be fixed and they need to understand how not to do that anymore. But it is also, okay, that person hurt my feelings. And how, you know, how do we move forward? How do we move move forward? I am very sparked by this, and I see it in my work with, I'm gonna say this is just my world because this is my world, but college age students who are fighting hard for social justice, and I do believe the children are our future.

So I'm very thankful for their fight. Uh not to say it's all on their shoulders. Thank you, Laura Bananti, but that's right. I see how people they have this increasing sense of awareness about what is okay and what is not okay, and how that lives in language and how that lives in interpersonal communication and how that lives in the work, the creative work that we make. But what I see less of is, and I actually do try to bring a fair, healthy dose of this to the work that I do, but I this is sparking me even more to say directly kind of what you just said to us, me and the listeners, which is not only do we need to increase our awareness of you know what's okay, what's not okay, and continue to investigate that, but we also have to strengthen our toolkits around processing through. So when it happens, because it will, how do we how do we continue to process with each other so it doesn't create a divide that just keeps on that we actually could use it to come back together?

[16:34] Susan Blackwell: Love that, love that, love that it doesn't create a divide, so it doesn't take us out of the moment and keep us from enjoying whatever was happening or whatever opportunity is right in front of us. Like, can we deal with that and still be able to participate in the present moment? So I am glad I said that. It does feel risky to say though, but I just I do want to believe that we can get to where we're learning both skills, both skills at the same time. All right, so back to this panel, his holiness the Dalai Lama added the idea that creativity must be provoked. He said, if we have an easy, problem-free life, our creativity may be at rest or imprisoned. Challenges, experience, and contradictions increase creativity.

Um this reminds me of this idea of creative limitations, and in giving our brain a challenge, a problem to solve, it really does come to life. Neurons start popping. Like there's there's a problem to solve. Our brain wants to engage. And I think it also relates to this belief that if you have to live through something, you might as well make something of it. Your pain or your particular circumstances may be your superpower. It just may be so good. You know, it reminds me of a conversation we were recently having with a potential client. And we were we just we take, you know, we're just very discerning to make sure that we can really support the people that we teach and that we coach.

[18:15] Laura Camien: And will you just read that sentence again about what the Dalai Lama said? Who what did Dalai Lama say again? So again, now Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama added this idea. Creativity must be provoked. He said, if we have an easy, problem-free life, our creativity may be at rest or imprisoned. Challenges, experience, and contradictions increase creativity. Yeah. So sometimes when we're we we meet with clients, and you know, we want to work with people who are nine out of ten and ten out of ten ready to rock. And sometimes people just aren't there yet. No, and this is not a bad thing. It just is a thing. Yeah, it's a thing, a metric that we are we're using to discern who we feel like we can support. And I think sometimes it's exactly that. Like have yeah, I think it's a hundred percent. Amazing. Amazing.

[19:18] Laura Camien: So all of these ideas were exciting, and I obviously loved the entire panel, and it obviously influenced the. How long was this panel? Was it like seven hours long? No, I think they just I actually think they planned what tidbits they were gonna each add. Um, but it was very, very well curated and deliberate. Holy moly. So all this was this was amazing, but then oh my goodness, my heart developed the biggest crush on the next person to speak on the stage. We've spoken of this crush before. It's ridiculous. Sir Ken Robinson, Sir Ken Robinson, Sir Ken Robinson. I mean this person was Sir Ken Robinson was incredibly inspirational, charming, super smart, witty as hell, and right on the money when it comes to creativity.

He was one of the greatest advocates for creativity and imagination that we've had in the last hundred years, maybe thousand years. I mean, he was awarded a knighthood for his arts advocacy, for goodness sake. This man, this man is officially my spark today, and he is my spark on many, many days. That day in Vancouver turned out to be the first time I had the pleasure of meeting Sir Ken Robinson, but there were many others. And Suze, I think you know, like I really don't get too swoony over celebrities in general. Certainly not right, just like celebrities who are just for the sake of being celebrated celebrities. But I have discovered something about myself that like the people I do get swoony over the ones who really engage my brain, the ones that excite my brain.

That makes me literally giddy. And I mean, I remember Anthony uh Viniciale. It's uh like I was like mesmerized by this man, and it was because like gymnastics were happening in my brain as I'm listening to him talk. And yeah, and I think like Sir Ken Robinson is one of those people as well. And I get I yeah, I get I get swoony. Um to be honest, Suze. I I think you know this. Like I was hoping to have him on the podcast. I mean, yeah, it was not a it was not an impossibility. Um very sadly, in August of last year, after a short battle with cancer, the world lost this shining light of inspiration. I'm crying, I'm sorry. So Sir Ken once said, what you do for yourself dies when you leave this world. What you do for others lives on forever. Rock on.

[22:29] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, rock on. I have absolutely no doubt that we will forever be impacted and changed in incredible ways, thanks to the work that he did for others. So let me just give a tiny little background on Sir Ken Robinson. If you're not familiar with him, Sir Ken was not born a sir, by the way. He was just Ken Robinson, was born in Liverpool in 1950. Little Kenny Robinson.

[22:57] Laura Camien: He was one of seven children.

[22:59] Laura Camien: At age four, Sir Ken contracted polio.

[23:02] Laura Camien: And this set him on a course of being labeled different.

[23:06] Laura Camien: And unlike one of his brothers who became a professional footballer, aka soccer player.

[23:12] Laura Camien: Ken knew that he would need to use his intellect to get ahead in the world because he couldn't, you know, rely on his body.

[23:22] Laura Camien: And so uh he did just that.

[23:24] Laura Camien: In his 30s, Sir Ken was the director of the Arts and Schools Project, which was an initiative to develop and encourage arts education throughout England and Wales.

[23:33] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[23:34] Laura Camien: This was really the beginning of this enormous global advocacy for the arts and education.

[23:39] Laura Camien: He's been honored in a million different ways, won tons of awards, and ultimately, as I said, knighted by Queen Elizabeth for his contribution to the arts.

[23:48] Laura Camien: He's written best-selling books on creativity, finding your element, arts and education, and more.

[23:54] Laura Camien: One of his three TED talks is the most watched TED Talk of all time, titled Do Schools Kill Creativity, with over 63 million views.

[24:05] Laura Camien: It has also been translated into 62 languages.

[24:09] Laura Camien: For the purposes of today's spark, I just want to dig into a few of his popular ideas about the importance of creativity.

[24:15] Laura Camien: And these ideas are expressed in his TED Talks, his books, his books, The Element, Creative Schools, Out of Our Minds, and many more.

[24:27] Laura Camien: First of all, Sir Ken championed the idea that we are all innately creative.

[24:34] Laura Camien: Look at children.

[24:36] Laura Camien: Sir Ken literally delights.

[24:38] Laura Camien: I mean, he's this man is like full of stories.

[24:40] Laura Camien: Talk about storytellers.

[24:41] Laura Camien: He can pop out a story at any moment, but he delights in the creativity and innovation of children.

[24:50] Laura Camien: He often told the story of a little girl in kindergarten class who rarely paid attention in class, but one day they were having a drawing lesson, and she perked right up.

[25:01] Laura Camien: She was very focused all of a sudden.

[25:03] Laura Camien: The teacher was like, This is interesting.

[25:06] Laura Camien: Um, you know, wondering what's got this little girl's attention.

[25:10] Laura Camien: And she went over to check on her.

[25:12] Laura Camien: The teacher asked, What are you drawing?

[25:14] Laura Camien: And the girl answered, I'm drawing a picture of God.

[25:18] Laura Camien: And the teacher said, But no one knows what God looks like.

[25:23] Laura Camien: And the little girl replied, they will in a minute.

[25:31] Laura Camien: Just fucking love that kind of confidence.

[25:35] Laura Camien: Like, I wish I had that confidence.

[25:38] ⚠ About 3 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[28:30] Laura Camien: It's become painfully clear to us. I think if it's okay, I'll speak for both of us, but far too many people who are in fact incredibly talented do not believe they are. They question it, they spend precious time doubting rather than developing that story that they need to tell, the life-affirming, world-changing story that needs to be told. Instead, they're taking space, like taking up space in their minds. They have the sound of a vampire telling them to be realistic. Sir Ken believed that the imagination is a defining aspect of human nature. It's what sets us apart from other animals. We're able to imagine things in the past, in the future, we can imagine living a different life. We can imagine life on another planet.

There's no limit to our imagination. With our imaginations, we can consider things that we've not personally experienced. We can revisit the past. We can look at the present moment through different lenses. We can analyze possible routes to take in the future and anticipate various possible outcomes. Sir Ken begins his definition of creativity as the process of having original ideas that have value, which differs from imagination, which is the ability to bring to mind things that aren't present to your senses. He says, I think of creativity as putting your imagination to work, applied imagination. After all, you can be imaginative all day long and never do anything. So it is about applying that imagination.

And if you've ever taken one of our workshops, you know that at the Sparks File, we love this definition. And Susan Blackwell would add, that fights for the power of good. Creativity is applied imagination that fights for the power of good. And to clarify, you can be wildly creative with just the definition applied imagination. We add that because we want to be around artists who fight for the powers of good, as opposed to somebody who's like, for instance, a serial criminal who is wildly creative, but they're not fighting for the powers of good. So that's I that's that's why I like that distinction. Though Sir Ken Robinson, I think is correct. Applied imagination is one of the best definitions of creativity that we've ever heard.

But I like your addition, Suze, because I was also thinking about um, I had a therapist once that told me that I was experiencing future pain. And I asked, like, what is that? And she said, you're using your imagination, you're putting yourself in the future, you're imagining if this particular bad thing happened, but you're experiencing the pain now, as if it's happening. But those things haven't happened yet and may never happen. So of course I realize, oh my gosh, that's not how I want to apply my imagination.

[31:44] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it changed it changed my life entirely. I was like, oh my gosh. So now if I am, you know, if I am experiencing pain, I will like check myself and say, well, that's I'm experiencing pain about something that's not even happened. Uh, that is great. That's great. Interesting, right? So applied imagination. I think it is, I really think your addition to the definition is important. It's a really great distinction to make, keep us focused on what the purpose of it all is. So a really interesting thing to note about Sir Ken's advocacy is that applying your imagination doesn't have to be in the service of the arts.

[32:26] Laura Camien: It can be in business and math.

[32:28] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely, yes. Absolutely. Creativity is essential to these industries as well. And that's part of what his point is that he's like, I I like I think some people devalued his work even because they would write it off as like, oh, that's just about the arts. And so in an interview with the creative director of Ted, Sir Ken is very clear. He says, I most certainly do not want to conflate creativity with quote the arts. The arts are not only important because they are creative, but through the arts, we express deep issues of cultural value. We express the fabric of our relationships with other people, our connection to the world around us as well as the world within us. They are forms of language in their own right, and among the most profound ways we come to know ourselves.

They are deeply important, but creativity isn't exclusive to a particular field. It is a function of intelligence, science, math, technology, humanities, engineering, all are scenes of potential creative achievement.

[33:32] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[33:33] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Creativity is diverse. And as he mentions, like it can it can use a material, it can take form like using a material like fabric or wood or food or concrete. It can involve your senses like sound and voice and light. It can be a more cognitive medium like numbers or words. It can also be a creative act simply to ask new questions that reframe an idea or question an outdated idea, pushing an industry into a new direction or bringing together different ideas that have never been combined before, which is so much like creation by recombination.

[34:16] Laura Camien: Yeah. Like, yes. And you know what? I love that because it's also a positive way to frame this assertion that there's nothing new in the world anymore.

[34:29] Laura Camien: Like there's no new ideas, there's a prevalent misconception. There's plenty of new ideas. There's fresh combinations of old ideas that unite to make something new. And that is a creative act. Yeah. Making art out of art. Um, so in his book, The Element, Sir Ken emphasizes the need for each of us to find the sweet spot between our natural abilities and our passions. This is finding your element. He says we're all born with immense natural creative abilities. Children demonstrate them all. We all feel them, but we feel they slip away from us as we get older. And I think it's vitally important for personal and every other kind of reason that we focus on them and try to develop them. He says what you're doing now or have done in the past need not determine what you can do next and in the future.

He believed, and I agree, we can alter the course of our lives. We can create our own lives. Life is not linear. When you follow your own true north, you create new opportunities, meet new different people, have different experiences, and create a different life. He says, if we create our life, we can recreate it. We owe it to ourselves to look deep inside and see what talents we really do have. So this man, what do we make of it? What do we make of all of all of the all of it that he left us? Um number one, I think we can commit to understanding how you've come to believe you are creative or not creative. If you think I'm not a creative person, please, we implore you, make a commitment to unpack that idea, question it, and go about the business of unlearning it.

Get back to that childlike wonder and self-expression. Wow. I think we should really go deep. I think consider the life that you want to create. What is the intersection of your natural ability and your passion? That gives me chills. Yes. If you have any influence over any children in your life, please. This one gets me, but just encourage them. Say yes. Tell them they are creative. Tell them they can do this. And keep an eye out for the forces that might creep in and discourage them. I think we can notice when and where creativity is required in our life. Like just acknowledge. We've talked about this before. Just realizing that, you know, when you're out of an ingredient in a recipe and you improvise, that's a creative act.

You know, a presentation at work is a creative act. Coming up with a creative solution to something that needs doing, creative act. Creating the next, we talk about this so frequently, but envisioning what you want the next chapter of your life to be. Creative, professional, personal. That is a creative act. That is a creative act. Yeah. And finally, I want to encourage people to make a contribution to the Imagine If celebration of Sir Ken's life, which happens to be going on right now.

[38:03] Susan Blackwell: This is the imaginative celebration, you say? Well, Suze, it's a weeklong online celebration happening this week. It starts today, and it is honoring the life and work of Sir Ken Robinson for the next three days, March one, two, and three. There are a variety of virtual events that champion our diversity of talents, performances, talks, and discussions. And then on March 4th, Thursday, which is Ken's birthday, there are official events, panel events, and discussions. And you can register for free. It's all free, which is what's amazing. Oh my gosh. Register at Imagine if.com. The event is organized by Sir Ken's daughter Kate, among many, many, many others. And it feels like an incredible global celebration of Sir Ken and his work.

The um one of the things they did is issue this provocation, Imagine If, and they sent it around the world, and people could send in their ideas in any medium, any format, sing it, paint it, write it, et cetera. Wow. And some of the ideas. What's that? Architect it. Architect it. So some of the ideas they shared. Imagine if we valued dance as much as math. Imagine if we weren't afraid of ourselves of all of the thoughts and ideas racing around in our heads. Imagine if we gave young people a say in our future. And that got me thinking. So I'll just add a couple of my own. Imagine if we spent zero time on self-doubt and fear of failure and applied our imagination instead to the possibilities and opportunities in our life.

Imagine if every school district in the world truly took to heart the belief, the beliefs of Sir Ken Robinson. We raised a generation of fearless creative thinkers ready to create the world. Wow. Imagine if we cared for ourselves the way we care for our most precious loved ones. Do you have an imaginative that comes to mind, Suze? Not to put you on the spot. Just wondering.

[40:23] Laura Camien: It sort of circles back to something that you said at the beginning of your spark. Imagine if I haven't figured it out yet, means that the possibility of future creativity remains.

[40:39] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I love it. I love it. Instead of being a torment or a torture, it can mean that there's still possible creative possibility afoot. Yes. I like that.

[40:55] Laura Camien: Yeah. So all of this, Suze, is just a reflection looking back to that fateful day in 2009 in Vancouver. If you had told me, Holy shit. That I would have internalized the ideas and concepts surrounding creativity so much that I would start a business with my dear sweet friend Susan Blackwell, and we would focus solely on unleashing creative potential. I don't know if I would have believed it. I don't know, like my mind wasn't prepared to contain that. But in the years since, thanks to Sir Ken Robinson and his work, like the book Finding Your Element, I've been able to do just that. And I am forever grateful. Rest in peace.

[41:47] Susan Blackwell: Oh, so good cams. Oh, thanks. That's that is so rich and so deep. And your entire spark could have been about that one panel discussion. I mean, that was ridiculous. And then you're so right. If people don't know the work of Sir Ken Robinson, I'm I'm thinking of teachers, I'm thinking of parents, and I'm just thinking of human beings who would be interested in this podcast. There is treasure. There's a treasure trove of candy awaiting you in the work of Sir Ken Robinson.

[42:25] Laura Camien: Yeah, I would I would start with the videos. He's such a great speaker. I mean, his wit and humor is like my favorite, favorite, favorite. He's really funny.

[42:37] Susan Blackwell: I totally forgot that story about that little girl.

[42:39] Laura Camien: We'll know in a minute. Little know in a minute. So good. Camps, that was wonderful. And and I it also makes me feel so happy and so proud to uh be doing this spark file stuff with you and so privileged and so lucky. Like that we get to in our own little way advance work like that. It's amazing. That we feel passionate about and and feel frankly that we were put here to do. It feels purposeful. And the idea of helping others unleash their creative possibility is I mean, it's dynamite. It's I love Sparks Day. It's my favorite day.

[43:31] Susan Blackwell: Favorite day of Sparks Day. Um, I think that's it. I think that's it. I was a little sad. It's the end of the episode. Um, this episode of the Sparks File was made on Muncie Lenape and Seminole Land. And as always, we hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file.

[43:46] Laura Camien: Hey, listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, and people have been so Ooh, Julianne Guffrey sent us a good spark the other day. Thank you, Julianne. Um, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or you've taken a spark and you fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like us to share the light of that. Email us at the sparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you get to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[44:17] Laura Camien: Yes, you do. Follow us on social media at the sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review this podcast. It really does help other listeners to find us.

[44:27] Susan Blackwell: Hey, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people you love. And if you didn't like it, we're kind of into the idea of you hate listening to us, so keep it up.

[44:39] Laura Camien: Let's check to tune in next week.

[44:45] Susan Blackwell: So keep coming back. If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[44:56] Laura Camien: It is your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame. You know, you gotta take it and make it make it.

[45:08] Susan Blackwell: I love the delay and make it a make it make it and make, make, make, make, make, make it.

[45:19] Laura Camien: When I bumped into something that inspires me, dump it in the spark files.

[45:28] Susan Blackwell: Spark could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[45:34] Laura Camien: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[45:34] Susan Blackwell: Spark files.

[45:39] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark files.

[45:44] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark files.