This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:32] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:52] Laura Camien: If you're an OG member of the Sparkfile community, welcome back, Sparkler. If you're joining us for the first time, hey, welcome, friends.

[1:00] Susan Blackwell: Hey. Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:07] Laura Camien: Ooh, but you might be asking yourself, what exactly is a Sparkfile? A Sparkfile is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:17] Susan Blackwell: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:26] Laura Camien: But please don't despair. We are collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that sparks creativity and piques curiosity to light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:44] Susan Blackwell: Or a conscious, crucial, often overlooked step in the creative process.

[1:51] Laura Camien: Ooh. Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks. And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:01] Susan Blackwell: That means we have more sparks than we can possibly use in this lifetime, friends. So if something lights you up, we encourage you, we implore you to please take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:15] Laura Camien: Without further ado, let's open up the spark.

[2:18] Susan Blackwell: The spark file Laura Cayenne, Suzy Blackwell, Laura.

[2:27] Laura Camien: Yes, your voice is a little bit back to normal.

[2:30] Susan Blackwell: You sound good.

[2:32] Laura Camien: Uh thanks. If you're gonna give it a percentage, where are you at? Are you at 100? You at 97?

[2:39] Susan Blackwell: Um, I would say I'm probably about like 98%. Occasionally, like a squeak will happen, particularly like if I'm laughing or if I get excited, and then like some strange sound will emerge.

[2:52] Laura Camien: That little thing really got you. Whatever the hell that was, it really really got you.

[2:57] Susan Blackwell: But I'm healing from it, and that is the important thing. Every day when I brush my teeth, I'm like, man, how great is this? I'm not like coughing. I didn't spend the whole night coughing. Yeah, I'm grateful.

[3:12] Laura Camien: I think I'm I'm gonna miss little squeaks though. I'm gonna see if I can get just a few last little squeaks out of you today. Wish me luck.

[3:21] Susan Blackwell: Okay, we'll see. Hey, you mentioned before we started recording, you might have a mini sparkle sparklet.

[3:28] Laura Camien: Suze, I have two little mini sparklets um that I wanted to say. One is I noticed this based on a deeper awareness, I guess, of AI all around us now, thanks to your spark last week, um, or two weeks ago, whenever that was.

[3:46] Susan Blackwell: Adobe just launched Firefly, which is their AI that lets you edit images just by typing quick edits in the text. Like, like, let's say there's an image of like a tiny house in a field that looks maybe springtime. You can just write change to winter scene, and then suddenly like snow on the ground and all like everything is done that you want done to make it like the winter scene.

[4:11] Laura Camien: Oh my god. So that's Adobe's answer there. And then on a completely different note, here's what I read on Instagram. And then I took a tiny little deep dive into it.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: In Denmark, there are libraries where you can borrow a person instead of a book to listen to their life story for 30 minutes. The goal is to fight prejudice. Each person has a title, unemployed, refugee, bipolar, etc.

[4:42] Laura Camien: But listening to their story, you realize how much you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. This innovative, brilliant project is active in 50 countries. It is called the Human Library.

[4:55] Susan Blackwell: Wow. And if you're on Instagram, you can go to @HumanLibraryOrganization. And the way they describe themselves is this.

[5:15] Laura Camien: To challenge stereotypes and prejudice through dialogue. Every open book is drawn from a group in society who are negatively marginalized or targeted with prejudice and discrimination because of their identity, lifestyle, occupation, social status, religious belief, sexuality, ethnic origin, or something similar.

[5:37] Susan Blackwell: I love this project. I'm fascinated. May I ask when they say you can borrow a person as opposed to a book, do they mean a recording of a person telegraph?

[5:49] Laura Camien: No, it's a live person.

[5:51] Susan Blackwell: What?

[5:52] Laura Camien: And you meet them like in the library, and you sit in a corner and you know you find a little space in the library.

[5:58] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god.

[5:59] Laura Camien: And you listen to them tell their story.

[6:02] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God. And so and it's so powerful because I can imagine that like you're looking at the human being, the fully formed human being in front of you that is telling you their life experience.

[6:17] Laura Camien: It takes it from that, like, you know, our news cycles and the like, well, I know people who this and that and the other thing. So here is this live person right in front of you telling you what they experienced.

[6:31] Susan Blackwell: Wow. Yeah, I think it's so cool. Say again the name of the project.

[6:37] Laura Camien: Human Library Organization.

[6:39] Susan Blackwell: Is it in the United States?

[6:41] Laura Camien: I I have not found an answer to that yet. And I'm sure one exists. I just haven't found it yet. Because that was my question, too. I'm like, 50 countries, it sure as heck should be here, but I don't know.

[6:53] Susan Blackwell: If someone finds that out, will you let us know?

[6:55] Laura Camien: That's amazing.

[6:57] Susan Blackwell: That is amazing.

[6:58] Laura Camien: Yeah. That's amazing. That's a that's a little mini spark for Yes Suze.

[7:02] Susan Blackwell: I'll take that mini spark and I'll see your mini spark with this. I have a little um cleanup and correction.

[7:10] Laura Camien: Oh, okay.

[7:11] Susan Blackwell: Before we get started, related to, as you were mentioning, the AI. So I recently did a spark on aha moments, how we can set the stage for them, invite them in. I shared the brain science behind it. I gave examples from some notable artists and scientists and their big aha's.

[7:31] Laura Camien: And then on the following spark that I did, I shared that I conducted some of the research for that aha spark using AI, namely Chat GPT.

[7:43] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[7:44] Laura Camien: So I said on the episode that I found it to be flawed. Like a it's like a very fast researcher who is not 100% accurate.

[7:54] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[7:55] Laura Camien: And I just recently went back to fact check some of that chat GPT generated stuff, specifically the notable artists' ahas. And I think that chat GPT made a bunch of it up.

[8:10] Susan Blackwell: Like the quotes, like the who you attributed it to.

[8:14] Laura Camien: Uh-huh. Some of the anecdotes.

[8:17] Susan Blackwell: Oh no.

[8:18] Laura Camien: I kept pressing chat GPT to produce sources. And again, I I mentioned this on the AI spark that I did, but some of the sources they produced would be linked to dead ends, to broken URLs.

[8:35] Susan Blackwell: Oh no.

[8:35] Laura Camien: And I kept pressing it and pressing it, and it would say some version of I'm gonna read this is directly from Chat GPT. I apologized for the confusion earlier. After searching extensively, I couldn't find any reliable sources that confirm that Toni Morrison shared the specific anecdote about her aha moment while ironing in any interviews or articles.

[8:56] Susan Blackwell: Oh no.

[8:56] Laura Camien: It's possible that the story is apocryphal or that it has been misattributed to her. As an AI language model, I strive to provide accurate and trustworthy information based on reliable sources. However, in this case, it seems that the anecdote cannot be confirmed. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused, which makes it sound like like that corporate talk.

[9:17] Susan Blackwell: It's not my fault. I'm just a robot.

[9:19] Laura Camien: So first of all, I just want to say, let this be a cautionary tale. I felt so embarrassed because I was like, well, I don't want to put more of this into the like these false stories and anecdotes into the mix.

[9:35] Susan Blackwell: And I didn't get all the way through my fact checking on that. I mean, clearly I should have fact checked before the episode. But I apologize for resharing uh some apocryphal or flat out inaccurate bull crap.

[9:48] Laura Camien: And I'll tell you the reason why I went back and I double-checked was because I was asking for a resource for something else. And ChatGPT spit out this poem that it attributed to Rilke and a link to that poem.

[10:04] Susan Blackwell: But the link didn't work, and the poem wasn't coming up. I put it into a Google search. The poem wasn't coming up, and I kept pressing and I was like, Chat GPT, did you write that poem? Like, where did that poem come from? Where did this poem come from?

[10:19] Laura Camien: And I just kept pressing and pressing, and it was all like Chat GPT was just like I think it I think it wrote it and then attributed it to Rilke and even gave me Yes.

[10:35] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[10:35] Laura Camien: Oh my God. But I was like, God damn, like, just admit that you wrote it or that you Wow. Anyway, I just want to say apologies, and it's a cautionary tale, and this technology is far from foolproof. So before you go letting it write your term paper.

[10:54] Susan Blackwell: I think your spark lit a fire because we have had a lot of people write in or boxer us or you know send us messages about this AI episode.

[11:06] Laura Camien: And there was a very kind person named David Young who wrote to us about your episode.

[11:15] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[11:15] Laura Camien: Hi, David Young.

[11:17] Susan Blackwell: Hi, David Young.

[11:18] Laura Camien: He's a teaching assistant for a music history class for non-music majors. And he mentioned, like just last week, he got his first chat GPT generated essay.

[11:32] Susan Blackwell: You know what? I want to write back, or David, if you're listening, answer this. Answer us this. How do you know it was chat GPT generated?

[11:41] Laura Camien: Um, just as a teacher, like, how do you what what gave you gave it away?

[11:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[11:47] Laura Camien: I'm guessing he put it through there are sites that have software that you can basically copy and paste the essay in, and it tells you the likelihood that it's been generated by AI.

[11:58] Susan Blackwell: Well, I just wonder, as a teacher, do you do that every single essay? Do you like, okay, I'm gonna cut and paste and put this in and run it through? Or was there something about this one that was like, I'm gonna check. I'm gonna check on this one.

[12:10] Susan Blackwell: I'll tell you, my experience, and I was saying this to one of our uh to Sean Gregory.

[12:18] Laura Camien: Hi, Sean.

[12:18] Susan Blackwell: Um, because he had thoughts about this whole thing, he heard the episode, he had thoughts about this whole AI thing. And I will say that there's something sort of slick and cold.

[12:30] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[12:30] Susan Blackwell: There's just sort of like a grammatic perfection.

[12:33] Laura Camien: And yeah.

[12:34] Susan Blackwell: Also, there's like a homogeneity about it. It just feels like it's scraped the internet and given you like there's nothing that feels deeply inspired about it.

[12:46] Susan Blackwell: And the things that it does produce, I give you Tony Morrison's aha moment.

[12:51] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[12:51] Susan Blackwell: May be total bullshit. The things that actually are like, oh my God, what a warm and wonderful rich story. It's like missing like a life force behind it or like life experience or something.

[13:05] Laura Camien: AI is a sociopath.

[13:07] Susan Blackwell: It has dead eyes. It has dead shark eyes. And it might be, it might be like super smart. But I was I was saying to Sean Gregory, I was like, if one would start utilizing this like for work, like if we were gonna use this to help us generate ideas for like social posts, or you really need to, it really needs to be warmed up because it's just so smooth and bland.

[13:37] Laura Camien: It's like bland is my experience of it.

[13:41] Susan Blackwell: Mm-hmm.

[13:42] Laura Camien: Thanks, perfect sense.

[13:43] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[13:44] Laura Camien: Uh David Young, let us know.

[13:46] Susan Blackwell: Let us know how you identified that.

[13:48] Laura Camien: Yeah, tell us more, David Young. Amazing.

[13:50] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, and thank you for the first time. Tell us more.

[13:52] Laura Camien: And thanks for writing.

[13:53] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[13:53] Laura Camien: Thanks for all the messages that yeah, people really are. I don't know, either excited about the robots coming or nervous about the robots coming.

[14:02] Susan Blackwell: I can't blame them no matter how they feel about the robots coming. But hey, listen, may I interest you in a fresh spot?

[14:09] Laura Camien: I want a freshie.

[14:10] Susan Blackwell: I've got one for you.

[14:12] Laura Camien: Okay, I'm ready.

[14:13] Susan Blackwell: I feel like I'm trying to think if you were in our creativity share room when this happened. You may not have been, but I may have told you about it. So one of our coaching clients, Tammy Evans, has spent the last, I'm gonna say year plus working on a big creative goal, developing a solo show called Off the Rails, and not only writing it, but producing it, pursuing performance opportunities at venues and festivals.

[14:41] Laura Camien: Recently she did a mini East Coast tour of the show in New York City and New Jersey.

[14:47] Susan Blackwell: And after a little time passed at a meeting of our Illum mastermind group, of which Tammy is a member. She talked about how she did the show. She felt super proud of it, proud of the produceral work she had done to get the show placed in a variety of venues and festivals, proud of the content of the show. So grateful to all of us who had come out to see the show.

[15:11] Laura Camien: And she sensed that there was a piece of the creative process that felt unfinished for her.

[15:18] Susan Blackwell: Oh yes. I thought this was like really, really uh perceptive, intuitive of her needs. And I loved her for uh surfacing this. Bringing it up.

[15:29] Laura Camien: So flashback, Laura, flashback to that time when we were interviewing Lynn Manuel Miranda when he was a guest on this very podcast.

[15:39] Susan Blackwell: This podcast.

[15:40] Laura Camien: This podcast.

[15:43] Susan Blackwell: We talked to Lynn about how Hamilton was this tremendous cultural event for everybody. And it was also a huge, huge life event for him personally. And we asked him what advice he would give to anyone who is finishing a big creative chapter and how he dealt with those types of conclusions and that sort of liminal space that exists between when you're not exactly you're not exactly in Hamilton and you're not exactly onto the next thing yet.

[16:14] Laura Camien: And do you remember?

[16:16] Susan Blackwell: Do you remember that conversation, little baby camps?

[16:18] Laura Camien: Yeah, I do.

[16:19] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[16:19] Laura Camien: You were there.

[16:20] Susan Blackwell: I was there. He talked first about his high school musicals. When he was in high school, they had a tradition of putting up the show posters for whatever show they were doing on sort of like the back wall of the theater.

[16:35] Laura Camien: And then everybody would sign everybody else's poster.

[16:39] Susan Blackwell: So they would do the show on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then on Sunday, the day after the musical closed, he would get in bed and read the messages that everyone had signed on his poster.

[16:51] Laura Camien: And he said he'd be so sad it was over, and he'd read messages from the girls he had crushes on and from the graduating seniors that he looked up to, which is to say he took downtime, he grieved, he reflected, reflect, he sat in it.

[17:07] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, he celebrated it. And then he said specifically, have a plan for a week from then.

[17:15] Laura Camien: So that was an example from his high school time, but he also shared that as an adult, he described a time where after several months of he was doing Mary Poppins Press, which had him all around the world.

[17:29] Susan Blackwell: He did Hamilton in Puerto Rico.

[17:33] Laura Camien: He, while he was on all those travels, they got a new home.

[17:38] Susan Blackwell: And you know, he got he moved into a new home.

[17:42] Laura Camien: Oh, that's right.

[17:42] Susan Blackwell: And that kind of happened while he was away.

[17:45] Laura Camien: That's that's right.

[17:46] Susan Blackwell: So he had this big, big like months and months of activity. And then he said he and his wife left their kids with their folks and they went to an undisclosed location for five days to talk and reconnect and process these big life events.

[18:04] Laura Camien: So good.

[18:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, they processed what had happened for the past several months, things that they hadn't had time to process when they were living it. And they also talked about what the next year wanted to be.

[18:17] Laura Camien: Yes.

[18:18] Susan Blackwell: So they took some time together to look back, they took some time together to look forward. They took some time together just to be in the present with each other.

[18:25] Laura Camien: Yes.

[18:26] Susan Blackwell: This all leads me to my Sparks du jour, which is I wish I had like maybe by the end of this, we'll come up with a zippy way to say this, but processing creative conclusions and milestones.

[19:05] Laura Camien: So in Tammy's case, which we just talked about, she's continuing to do her show off the rails in other iterations, at other venues, etc. But in order to feel peaceful and reinvigorated and strengthened to go into that next chapter, she needed to process this significant creative milestone of getting that version of the show up and into the world in a big way.

[19:28] Susan Blackwell: So until we come up with a better name for it processing creative conclusions and milestones creative conclusions and milestones yeah I like it so just before I go any further I know I'm about just so you know in a little bit I'm gonna share some ways that you have processed creative conclusions and milestones.

[19:50] Laura Camien: Please remind me when when we talk about this like what comes up for you have there been big pro you've done so many big projects Laura Cambian you know a few things come up for me one is like there were years and years on and up Blue Man where we were working so fast and furious that literally the day after opening in one city you know we might have time to fly back to New York switch our luggage and fly to the next city where we're about to open something oh my God and I can remember feeling like everything was kind of in disarray and it was yeah we not taking that time to kind of process and assess like what we had just achieved and I think that now over time when I think about like my personal work too I think I wasn't always able to articulate what's happening what am I feeling because it could be like an extraordinary night of you know Broadway opening or yeah you know a play being published or something and and feeling a sense of sadness.

[21:06] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[21:07] Susan Blackwell: And then I think in my younger years, feeling like, well, you're not supposed to be sad. Like, and instead of processing all of those emotions, kind of trying to force myself to feel the one I felt I was supposed to be feeling.

[21:20] Laura Camien: Oh, Laura, you bring up such a good point.

[21:24] Susan Blackwell: I want to make sure I'm going to ask a clarifying question and lead the witness a little bit. When you say that you felt sadness, it wasn't because necessarily that the show was poorly received.

[21:37] Laura Camien: Like the show may have been a huge hit.

[21:40] Susan Blackwell: Oh yeah.

[21:40] Laura Camien: Both critically and personally, professionally, but a sadness which can be so confusing.

[21:49] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[21:50] Laura Camien: I sometimes attribute that to, and I think it's really important, like you were saying, to be present with it and to process it and not be like, no, what I'm no, no, no, no, no. According to legend, what I'm supposed to be feeling is exuberance and gratitude.

[22:08] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[22:09] Laura Camien: 100% effervescence.

[22:11] Susan Blackwell: But I feel like my sadness has come when I have achieved big creative milestones. Sometimes it's just like pure fatigue, mental and physical fatigue.

[22:21] Laura Camien: Yes.

[22:22] Susan Blackwell: Just collapsing over the finish line. It's all this deferred processing of all sorts of pieces of things related to the creative process and things that have been deferred because I've been so busy.

[22:35] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[22:35] Susan Blackwell: It's like there's just wide open space for all of the feelings to rush in.

[22:40] Laura Camien: Another one that I will add to this list is I can distinctly recall feeling a loss of a sense of purpose.

[22:51] Susan Blackwell: Because when and also a loss of people, even though I'm like, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna see them again in a few weeks. Like we're gonna get on to the next thing. But when you get up every day, you are quote unquote, like in the trenches with a group of people with a singular goal.

[23:10] Laura Camien: We are going to get this show up.

[23:12] Susan Blackwell: We are going to be, we're gonna, you know, do these national television appearances, we're gonna have a big red carpet event, we're gonna read the incredible reviews the next day.

[23:23] Laura Camien: And all of it happens, and then like I remember just feeling like a sense of like sort of inexplicable loneliness.

[23:32] Susan Blackwell: Like, well, where am I pe am I like we're we're not getting up today to to do that again because it's done because we did it, and this feeling of like, but that purpose was driving me forward, it was propelling me forward through time, and it was singular in my mind.

[23:53] Laura Camien: It was like this is what we are all moving towards, and then poof, it goes away.

[24:01] Susan Blackwell: Now, the thing I just said about Blue Man, then it was quite convenient to be like, and tomorrow hair purpose again, and our purpose is now this.

[24:23] Laura Camien: Like, okay, welcome.

[24:25] Susan Blackwell: This is the next step, this is the next part of it, and the the next moment that happens, and you're safe, and it is a sign that all went well, and now and now we imagine what's next.

[24:40] Laura Camien: But I didn't have that time or that awareness, yeah, to do that for myself.

[24:47] Susan Blackwell: I think it is really important. I feel like it is an as I said in the intro, sort of a really crucial but often overlooked step in the creative process.

[25:01] Laura Camien: You know, Laura and I think of the creative process as a cycle, like one of the natural cycles of life. You have your igniting sparks, and then you have your fanning flames, which is the making of the actual thing, and then you have the the shining and the sharing of the light, which is where you share that creative work out into the world.

[25:24] Susan Blackwell: And I think that this piece, this processing creative conclusions and milestones nestles into that. It's part of sharing the light.

[25:35] Laura Camien: Yes. It's a super super important part of the creative life cycle.

[25:40] Susan Blackwell: I love that you are talking about it in terms of milestones too, because it can be like, well, I'm driving towards like having this reading or whatever the next step in the project is, and that deadline is great to be there to motivate you and you know, give you that sense of purpose. And then the next day, it may be entirely up to you to take the pieces of what happened and what you learned and incorporate them in and create the next step for yourself, especially when you're, you know, when you're not working on a project that is at that place where you've got other producers and other people dictating timelines and motivating you when you're self-motivating and you need to okay, I just I did the fringe festival, and now it's going to be on me to generate the next opportunity or what I determine the next milestone is for my project.

[26:47] Laura Camien: Yeah. Makes it even more essential that you process this.

[26:51] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I feel like there's a number of reasons why we do it. I feel like as creatives, we pour our hearts and our souls into our work and we invest countless hours of time and energy and emotion into bringing our ideas to life. And then we reach these major milestones or conclusions, and it can feel to your point about the sadness rushing, it can feel like the end of a long and sometimes arduous journey. But just because the show has closed or the book has launched or the paint has dried, it doesn't mean that the process is completely complete. This piece of processing these big creative milestones and conclusions is I think essential for several reasons. First and foremost, it allows us to take stock of what we've accomplished so we can celebrate our successes, acknowledge our challenges, gain a sense if it is a closure to gain a sense of that closure of the project.

[28:01] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah.

[28:02] Susan Blackwell: If you aren't aware of what's happening to you and what all of these feelings are and how to process them, the fear that I have is that it can be a feeling that's so intense that might keep you from taking the next step.

[28:20] Laura Camien: Yes.

[28:20] Susan Blackwell: And I'm going to talk about that in a little bit. Like if it isn't processed and it goes underground inside of you, it can become a subconscious narrative that you tell yourself, a counter commitment that you make to yourself, a piece of evidence that you hold against yourself about future creative acts.

[28:42] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:42] Susan Blackwell: If it you're like, oh no, crossing the finish line makes me feel really sad.

[28:47] Laura Camien: That's right.

[28:48] Susan Blackwell: Like if you don't process through that, you can be like, I don't want to cross any finish lines. I don't want to get to a finish line because it feels bad afterwards.

[28:57] Laura Camien: Yeah. That's real.

[28:58] Susan Blackwell: I think processing, it also helps us learn from our experiences. And by reflecting on the creative process and our own actions within that process, we can identify what worked well, what didn't work, what we would do differently in the future. And this can help us refine our creative process and determine what new skills might serve us, what might help us grow as creatives. My sister Julie said something to me a while back, and it really stuck with me. Hi Julie.

[29:28] Laura Camien: Hi, Julie.

[29:30] Susan Blackwell: It was something that she had learned from a colleague of hers. And the idea is basically that people who are experts, those folks who are experts are the practitioners that reflect on their previous work. So a person can be very good at something, but they may not achieve expert level without consistent reflection on their work. Now, when Julie told me that, I was like, oh no, because you know, sometimes I find it sometimes painful and sad to reflect back, not always, but sometimes. If it didn't go great, if there was some hard criticism involved, there are times when I've gotten better at it though. But I was like, when she told me that, I was like, oh, if I want to really gain mastery of something, I'm gonna have to consciously process it.

[30:24] Laura Camien: Must reflect.

[30:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, must reflect.

[30:27] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's an interesting idea.

[30:29] Susan Blackwell: I'm living with that for a minute because that does feel very, very true. Because there's something that experts, if you're an expert in your field, you don't shy away from a part of the process.

[30:41] Laura Camien: Right.

[30:42] Susan Blackwell: You were like, I'm here to learn this, I'm here to learn all of this. And this is part of it. And if there is some sort of a, in my case, it can be like a discomfort. In other cases, it can just sort of be like, oh, I haven't opened the door to this wing of the mansion. And so it's an opportunity to start, you know, looking at some area that you have not yet examined carefully.

[31:09] Laura Camien: Yes, agreed.

[31:11] Susan Blackwell: I also think that some of what we're talking about, those feelings that we're convinced we feel the next day, like I want to cry to sadness to I think I feel good about what happened. I can't recall what it's like. Creative hangover being wrung out.

[31:31] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[31:31] Susan Blackwell: All of that. That's the thing. Like, there's all of that. And as you and I would talk about to anyone, it's also the chemicals. Like the flood of chemicals is has not left your body yet.

[31:45] Laura Camien: It is a juicy chemical cascade.

[31:48] Susan Blackwell: It's a chemical cascade. And until they until you literally rinse them out.

[31:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[31:55] Susan Blackwell: And in my younger years, I did not understand what was happening, why I felt that way.

[32:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[32:02] Susan Blackwell: And I also had a tendency to believe every thought that I had.

[32:06] Laura Camien: Yes.

[32:07] Susan Blackwell: And believe every feeling that I had. And so it took years to realize like I shouldn't believe every thought that I have. Sometimes it's the chemicals talking.

[32:14] Laura Camien: So frequently it's the chemicals talking.

[32:20] Susan Blackwell: And this I think is another great reason that processing big creative milestones and conclusions is really useful because it can help us deal with the challenging emotions that may arise. As creatives, we are often deeply invested in our work. And the completion of a project can trigger a chemical cascade that feels like a range of emotions excitement, pride, disappointment, sadness, grief. But by taking the time to process these emotions, we can acknowledge them, we can learn from them, we can ultimately move forward with a sense of clarity and sort of I think of like peace from having processed them. And as I just said a moment ago, if left unprocessed, I really think we can harbor some of these feelings, store them away in our subconscious, and they can turn into narratives and evidence and counter commitments that can keep us from going for our future creative endeavors.

[33:20] Laura Camien: Yes, maybe you make a commitment literally, I never want to feel like that again.

[33:25] Susan Blackwell: And that commitment is living inside of you.

[33:27] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[33:27] Susan Blackwell: If you're one of our clients, and you're listening to this, and that and you know, you know that when you get into the shining of the light, even if you're not one of our clients, if you know intuitively that when you get near the shining of the light phase of the creative process, and it's time to take the thing you created out to the people, take your wares to market, whatever it is, and you're like, uh, I'm resisting, I'm resisting, I'm doing everything but that. No. Ask yourself is it because I have felt some sort of way in the past when I cross a finish line or check off a big creative milestone. Just ask yourself.

[34:07] Laura Camien: It's so interesting, Suze. I keep thinking about something that you said early on in this spark, and just to underscore it, we're talking about the need to process whether it was what you would consider a negative experience.

[34:23] Susan Blackwell: Yes, if it was the most extraordinary, unbelievably incredible experience.

[34:31] Laura Camien: Ding ding ding ding ding.

[34:32] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yes, yes. Either way, these feelings come and these chemicals come both in both scenarios and everything in between. So the awareness, first of all, to expect that, and then I mean, if you can enjoy it, what a crazy idea. Like literally learn to be like, and here it is. I'm this is I'm in the like I'm bubbling over with chemicals. Right on time. Running through my body, right on time. And this is all part of it.

[35:03] Laura Camien: This is all part of it.

[35:08] Susan Blackwell: I also think processing can help us build a sense of community and connection with other creatives, depending on how we process. By sharing our experiences and our insights, we can learn from others. We can offer support and encouragement, we can inspire others to pursue their own creative dreams. We do what we call a spark ground, essentially a name game at the top of most gatherings of the Sparks File where you know each person, their face pops up on the Zoom, you say your name, pronouns if you wish, and then you respond to a question or a prompt. And recently with our current Blaze cohort, we asked them to share one action they take or a reward they give themselves to celebrate or process significant creative output.

And in a second, I want to share some of their answers nestled into a list of ways creatives can process the completion of a significant creative project or milestone. The reason why I share this now is because I really experienced this processing to build a sense of community and connection.

[36:15] Laura Camien: It happens in our feedback process as well.

[36:18] Susan Blackwell: It's all the things, it's fun, it's stimulating, it's vulnerable, and it's like it is bonding, and we learn from each other.

[36:29] Laura Camien: Yes, it is.

[36:45] Susan Blackwell: Gregory and Anne-Marie Petersma's basement readings are basically reading series friends. And what I love, both of them, as dear what I consider dear friends, will email or I mean text me the next day and just be like, How are we feeling today? Checking in. And it's like when you're amongst people who know, like I we both know what you're full of today, and it's a mixed bag of nuts and it's a bunch of chemicals, and yeah, and everything went well last night, but we're just checking in to say, How are you feeling today?

[37:25] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[37:26] Susan Blackwell: It's wonderful. It's incredible to be with people that can, but like acknowledge together, like you're saying, Suze, and in community of like, we all know what this is. It's like it's like that just idea of being in the arena with people who know what it's like to be in the arena is part of it.

[37:44] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[37:44] Susan Blackwell: And we can acknowledge, like, yep, no matter how great it went last night, we know shit's going on inside of you today. Checking in. I love a good checking in.

[37:54] Susan Blackwell: It's so good.

[37:56] Laura Camien: It is so thoughtful.

[37:57] Susan Blackwell: If you're ever wondering what you can do for your creative friends, yes, you sent them a happy opening or a congratulations, like you sent that yesterday.

[38:08] Laura Camien: The next day, you can write to them and say, How are you feeling today? How are you doing over there?

[38:14] Susan Blackwell: I love that, Laura. That's a good what do we make of it.

[38:17] Laura Camien: Yeah. So I'm gonna share this list of ways that you could potentially process the completion of a significant creative project or a big milestone. And if you're someone and you there's there are a fair number of people who are like, I don't really do this.

[38:36] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[38:36] Laura Camien: I encourage you to listen to this list, see any of these things speak to you. Because when we say process, we don't necessarily mean it has to be some big old like therapy session. You don't have to take a session. There's lots of ways to do this. And here's a few of them. So try them on. See if any of these speak to you. You know my favorite.

[38:57] Susan Blackwell: The first one, and actually this one I'm curious about because I think though you haven't said it expressly, this might be a Laura Camien jam. Let's find out.

[39:06] Laura Camien: Okay.

[39:07] Susan Blackwell: Journaling. Writing down your thoughts and feelings about the completed project in a journal to reflect on the creative process, identify what worked well, explore any challenges you faced, what you might do differently going forward.

[39:21] Laura Camien: Cams, you journal a lot. Do you do this?

[39:24] Laura Camien: Well, ironically, sort of the hotter the feelings, the less I like will write in that moment, which is exactly when I need to.

[39:32] Susan Blackwell: Interesting.

[39:33] Laura Camien: Why?

[39:34] Laura Camien: I just don't think I learned to do that. It just wasn't like a muscle reflex, but it's starting to become one.

[39:42] Susan Blackwell: Because remember when we spoke in Nashville?

[39:45] Laura Camien: Yes.

[39:45] Laura Camien: And um, hey everybody, guess what? We shared a room. Suze and I shared a room, and every night we were there for like three nights before we did our big thing.

[39:53] Susan Blackwell: It was a really, really big, beautiful room, just so you know.

[39:56] Laura Camien: It was a really big, beautiful room. So don't feel bad for us.

[39:59] Susan Blackwell: But it was also happily, I'll happily share a platonic bed with Laura Camien and Suze.

[40:04] Laura Camien: Well, and don't get it twisted. Let me tell you, there aren't a lot of people that I would let do that.

[40:09] Laura Camien: And Suze is one of them.

[40:10] Laura Camien: Um, but we weren't sharing a bed.

[40:12] Susan Blackwell: We do have our own bed.

[40:14] Laura Camien: This has gone a weird way now. Um we were not sharing beds, but we were sharing a room.

[40:20] Laura Camien: And we were there for like three days before our big event.

[40:24] Laura Camien: And every night around 3 a.m., I would wake up and I would be like, I am wide awake and I'm full of feelings.

[40:34] Laura Camien: And I would go to my journal.

[40:37] Laura Camien: And I would journal and I would tap and then I would go back to bed feeling great.

[40:43] Laura Camien: Honestly, like feeling great.

[40:44] Susan Blackwell: What is it again?

[40:45] Laura Camien: It's EFT.

[40:47] Susan Blackwell: EFT emotional freedom tapping.

[40:49] Laura Camien: Yes, yes, yes.

[40:50] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[40:51] Laura Camien: So you did a combo of the EFT tapping and journaling.

[40:54] Susan Blackwell: Journaling.

[40:55] Laura Camien: Yes.

[40:55] Laura Camien: Yes.

[40:56] Laura Camien: And so since then, I would say I try to remind myself in the heat of any moment, go to the journal and tap.

[41:04] Susan Blackwell: I like it.

[41:05] Laura Camien: Either one or both.

[41:06] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[41:07] Laura Camien: That I'm so sorry about that long, long answer because you are just beginning this list of things.

[41:12] Susan Blackwell: Listen, let's hear some more of them.

[41:14] Laura Camien: I love it.

[41:15] Laura Camien: Um, meditation and mindfulness, taking some time to meditate or practice mindfulness to help clear your mind and process any emotions that may have arisen during the creative process.

[41:25] Susan Blackwell: I totally do this just as a feature of my life, and I definitely flow this type of processing, creative processing into my meditation.

[41:35] Susan Blackwell: And in fact, when the heat is really on, that's when I go to meditation because I know I can just process through some of the stuff that comes up when you're making stuff and sharing it.

[41:46] Laura Camien: Yeah, I think that is great.

[41:48] Laura Camien: I feel like we've both been in the room where you're journaling on meditating.

[41:53] Susan Blackwell: I'm empty tapping, you're meditating.

[41:55] Laura Camien: Um, and yes to that.

[41:57] Laura Camien: And I think of like how you told me, and I've heard her say, Emily Fletcher, like we don't meditate to become better at meditation, but to become better at life.

[42:08] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, exactly.

[42:09] Laura Camien: And this is part of that.

[42:10] Laura Camien: And creativity is such a big part of my life.

[42:12] Laura Camien: It's a real big part of that.

[42:13] Susan Blackwell: Take a shot, Emily Fletcher.

[42:15] Laura Camien: Tammy Evans always says when you hear Emily Fletcher's name on the podcast, take a shot.

[42:19] Susan Blackwell: Just Emily Fletcher, Emily Fletcher, Emily Fletcher.

[42:23] Laura Camien: So y'all are drunk.

[42:26] Laura Camien: Creative visualization is another thing you can do using creative visualization techniques to imagine yourself revisiting the completed project and exploring any new ideas or directions that may have emerged.

[42:39] Laura Camien: And this is something that our pal Seth Marquette talked about, taking the energy, for instance, of what he did in a creative share in the spark file and using that to visualize what he, the project can become, how he can progress it.

[42:56] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[42:58] Laura Camien: Yeah, absolutely.

[42:59] Laura Camien: I think this is so powerful, especially because there's so many of us who won't, can't dare to dream, quote, dare to dream.

[43:10] Laura Camien: So meaning, like, if I even start to imagine, like, oh my gosh, my show might be at the public.

[43:18] Laura Camien: Oh my god, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't even think about it.

[43:21] Laura Camien: Like, you see people do that all the time, and just like very quickly negate it because it feels too scary to even imagine it.

[43:29] Laura Camien: And we know this from um, gosh, we talked about it in that episode about like the comfort crisis and those sports psychologists who are like athletes train and they imagine themselves time and time again, going to the hoop and hitting or hitting that shot, yeah, or championship games or Super Bowls or whatnot, and they see themselves there and really truly feel the sensations, imagine it's that it is possible.

[44:03] Laura Camien: And I have to say thank you, Seth Marquette, for bringing this up and bringing it to the group, and thank you, Susan, for reminding us all, because I would be so thrilled if more and more creatives would allow themselves to imagine what is possible for themselves.

[44:21] Susan Blackwell: I love that Laura Camien.

[44:23] Laura Camien: Dare to Dream by Laura Camien.

[44:25] Laura Camien: Um another one on this list, and this is something that we've talked to a friend or mentor, reach out to a trusted friend or mentor to discuss your completed project, any thoughts or feelings that have come up.

[44:39] Laura Camien: Sometimes talking it out with someone else could help bring clarity and new insights.

[44:43] Susan Blackwell: I think this is what Lynn was referring to with his wife.

[44:48] Laura Camien: I think we have Catherine Gwynne in our group who is a baker, and she shares bakes with her mom, who is also a baker.

[44:59] Laura Camien: So if you have a creative peer who can speak to the more nuanced aspects of your work, yes, I find that helps somebody who can in the way that I can talk to you, Laura.

[45:11] Laura Camien: We now have a whole community of people in the Sparks File.

[45:14] Susan Blackwell: I love, love, love my family.

[45:17] Laura Camien: But with the exception of hi Julie, maybe my sister Julie, sometimes my mom on specific topics, there's they don't always get the nuance of some of the things that I'm talking about.

[45:33] Laura Camien: So to speak to somebody who has the experience and is sort of like a peer with you or like a good mentor or a coach, I think is super duper helpful.

[45:43] Susan Blackwell: Agreed.

[45:44] Laura Camien: Another big one is to process it through the body via movement or sweat.

[45:51] Laura Camien: This, as we know from the Nagoskies, completes the stress response cycle, often associated with big projects and milestones.

[45:58] Susan Blackwell: Laura Camien is raising the roof because what?

[46:00] Laura Camien: Here's some examples.

[46:01] Laura Camien: I gave deep tissue massage.

[46:04] Laura Camien: You love for somebody to just like just like Lucy in that vat of grapes, just like stomp it out of you, right?

[46:11] Susan Blackwell: I'm talking about pain.

[46:12] Laura Camien: Yeah, like truly, like dig in deep.

[46:15] Laura Camien: And I will combo that with some creative visualization and literally imagine things draining from my body, like stuff that I don't want or need anymore, draining from my body.

[46:32] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[46:32] Laura Camien: And then, you know, getting up and filling back up again.

[46:36] Susan Blackwell: And it's oof, so good.

[46:38] Laura Camien: That is good.

[46:39] Laura Camien: And here's some other ways that that can manifest.

[46:42] Laura Camien: Brett Schufer takes a hot yoga class and sweats it all out.

[46:46] Laura Camien: Emma Callis, sweet Emma Callis kickboxing workout to calm her anxiety so she doesn't overthink the aforementioned creative achievement or milestone.

[46:57] Laura Camien: Carrie Seward going up to the hot springs, Peter Petralia getting a massage, taking a bath and walking in nature.

[47:05] Laura Camien: Like these are all physical.

[47:08] Laura Camien: I don't know about you, but oftentimes after a big creative output or a milestone, no matter how it went, I feel like somebody just pulled me out of the wash cycle.

[47:20] Susan Blackwell: Like I was in the extended clothes washer.

[47:26] Laura Camien: And it's nice to have somebody like to do something like this to sort of reset you physically.

[47:35] Susan Blackwell: I think it's great.

[47:36] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[47:37] Laura Camien: Now here's one that may be obvious, but it can manifest in different ways.

[47:41] Laura Camien: Celebrating, taking some time to celebrate your accomplishments and acknowledge the hard work that you've put into a creative project or a milestone.

[47:51] Laura Camien: Celebrating can help you feel proud and grateful for what you've accomplished.

[47:54] Laura Camien: So this can be, this could be a closing night or an opening night party.

[47:54] Laura Camien: This could be a book launch party.

[48:00] Laura Camien: But it can also be our client and Sparks Scribe.

[48:04] Laura Camien: If you like our art, thank Jill Dryer.

[48:06] Susan Blackwell: Jill Dryer turns the music up super loud and she becomes what she calls the middle-aged hype girl dancing like an idiot.

[48:14] Laura Camien: And her family joins her.

[48:16] Laura Camien: And that is a way of there's all sorts of ways to celebrate.

[48:20] Susan Blackwell: That's a way to celebrate.

[48:21] Laura Camien: That's absolutely a way to celebrate.

[48:23] Laura Camien: But I think it's about intentionality.

[48:26] Laura Camien: Like I want to celebrate truly what I've accomplished, how far I've come, all the things that went right.

[48:33] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[48:34] Laura Camien: You know, I keep thinking, Suze, we talked recently about um, I had like a table read of a script, and we were talking about processing it afterwards, and I was like, you know, younger me, even when you go into something, you know, like this is a draft, and I'm gonna get notes.

[48:52] Susan Blackwell: That's what we're doing, that's why we're doing it.

[48:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[48:55] Laura Camien: Younger me would hear like all the accolades of like, this is amazing, this is so good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[49:04] Laura Camien: And then hear the feedback that's like, you know, we this could be tweaked, we could change this, this needs to be amplified, whatever.

[49:12] Laura Camien: And I couldn't hold in my mind that both things were true.

[49:17] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[49:18] Laura Camien: That yeah, uh, you know, yes, I'm a good writer, and all these things are amazing about it, and there's these things that I want to work on.

[49:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[49:27] Laura Camien: So I couldn't celebrate.

[49:28] Laura Camien: That's the whole point of this.

[49:30] Laura Camien: I couldn't celebrate all those things that went right because I wasn't capable of understanding both things being true.

[49:40] Susan Blackwell: All those things are worthy of celebrating.

[49:42] Laura Camien: And tomorrow I'll get back to my desk and I'll start my rewrite.

[49:46] Laura Camien: And I'll work on those things that like those notes aren't scary.

[49:50] Susan Blackwell: And I that's how I feel now.

[49:51] Laura Camien: I'm like, notes aren't scary, but I didn't know I didn't know it years ago.

[49:55] Susan Blackwell: And so I love this idea of celebrating.

[49:58] Laura Camien: I think that's a sign of a mature, more evolved mind, or an example of an emotional intelligence where you're able to hold two seemingly contradictory or multiple contradictory ideas simultaneously.

[50:13] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[50:13] Laura Camien: And they can all coexist and all be true, and you can party on while you're doing it.

[50:18] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[50:19] Laura Camien: Another big one for a lot of people in our group was rewards, marking the moment with some type of reward.

[50:27] Laura Camien: So these ran the gamut.

[50:29] Laura Camien: Scott Barnhart talked about like naps and desserts.

[50:33] Susan Blackwell: Mark Lingenfelter talked about giving high fives to himself and to colleagues.

[50:38] Laura Camien: Kevin Weinbold talked about getting an Airbnb or a hotel to pamper and reflect.

[50:43] Susan Blackwell: Diane Innes talked about a combo platter of a physical one where she strikes a strong gesture, like a strong pose to mark the moment, and also a scoop of praline ice cream.

[50:56] Laura Camien: Ice cream, I think, figured largely in the rewards.

[50:59] Susan Blackwell: Ice cream was a big reward section, but also Bradley Beerman bringing it strong with a craft cocktail and maybe a little bit of Animal Crossing.

[51:08] Laura Camien: Julian Godfrey with a great chocolate chip cookie.

[51:11] Susan Blackwell: And there was even some recreational or psychotherapeutic drugs tossed in there.

[51:17] Laura Camien: There's a little bit of that too.

[51:18] Susan Blackwell: Just like something fun.

[51:20] Laura Camien: I think it ties to celebration.

[51:22] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[51:23] Laura Camien: That sort of reward and celebration.

[51:25] Susan Blackwell: Another popular one was taking a break, allowing yourself.

[51:29] Laura Camien: I think this is critical.

[51:32] Susan Blackwell: Oh, per Lin-Manuel Miranda's going to the undisclosed location, allowing yourself to take a break from creative work for a period of time to rest, recharge, process your thoughts and feelings without the pressure of starting a new project immediately.

[51:46] Laura Camien: So Sam Johnson talked about allowing herself to get away from a screen, whether it was a mani-pedi or a hike, just not working was a reward.

[51:46] Susan Blackwell: Just not working.

[51:56] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[51:56] Susan Blackwell: Sarah Shibes talked about no responsibilities for 24 hours plus a giant plate of vegan nachos.

[52:04] Laura Camien: I mean, these were some really, really good ideas.

[52:06] Susan Blackwell: Oh boy. I love this.

[52:07] Laura Camien: Kelly Laterno, this spoke to my heart. Deep cleaning the apartment, fresh sheets, showered, and just getting into that fresh clean bed.

[52:15] Susan Blackwell: So a little rest tossed in there. I mean, talk about setting the stage for the next chapter fresh.

[52:21] Laura Camien: We're just fresh.

[52:22] Susan Blackwell: Fresh.

[52:23] Laura Camien: I loved that. Light a candle, baby.

[52:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Another one, which this is actually my, I would say, number one. This is my number one self-reflection, taking time to reflect on the creative process, identifying what worked well, what could be improved upon in the future.

[52:39] Laura Camien: Um, it really does help me and I think others to grow and develop as a creative and refine the process.

[52:47] Susan Blackwell: So I have talked to you about this before, Laura. How like when I'm driving home from like if I've spent a day filming on set, or if I have given a talk or we've given a talk, I like to consciously think through moment by moment, whatever just happened.

[53:07] Laura Camien: If there's footage, like if it's something that's been filmed, I'll watch it sometimes multiple times for my own pleasure to feel my feelings.

[53:19] Susan Blackwell: I use it to think through, oh, that happened there. I thought that thought there, that didn't feel great. Why didn't it feel great? And consider like what I loved about it, what I might do differently next time.

[53:32] Laura Camien: And this is something that Sean Gregory does as well.

[53:34] Susan Blackwell: Sean. Oh my god. Take a shot every time you hear Sean Gregory's.

[53:51] Laura Camien: Yeah, what he felt like could go better, just sort of taking it all in.

[53:55] Susan Blackwell: Um, Monica Kelly rereads poetry and writing that she has done, which I think is a version of this as well.

[54:03] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[54:05] Susan Blackwell: For me, it's a little bit of some of it is enjoyment, some of it's like processing the painful parts.

[54:11] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[54:12] Susan Blackwell: Uh, but this is that's probably my number one is self-reflection.

[54:16] Laura Camien: I love that, Suze. I would say that I usually combine that, you know, with a massage or with a walk or something.

[54:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[54:25] Laura Camien: So like self-reflection and physical, like this sort of combo.

[54:29] Susan Blackwell: But I love the intentionality of that and how you describe doing it.

[54:35] Laura Camien: And also for our listeners, like one thing we really advocate is writing down, especially like those positive moments, those good things that happened.

[54:44] Susan Blackwell: The Hall of Famers, yeah.

[54:46] Laura Camien: Yeah, because your brain is going to want to replay the negative.

[54:51] Susan Blackwell: It just does because it's trained to protect you.

[54:56] Laura Camien: And so it wants to sear into the back of your eyeballs. This moment happened. Don't let it happen again. You'll die if it happens.

[55:07] Susan Blackwell: Sear is the right verb.

[55:09] Laura Camien: Yeah. A, you won't die, but B, your brain is just doing what it is supposed to do.

[55:15] Susan Blackwell: So we actually have to work hard to be like, hey, remember these 14 fabulous moments that we weren't gonna die at all. You know, like we have to force our brain to also sear those into the back of our mind.

[55:32] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah.

[55:33] Susan Blackwell: That chemical burn, it literally feels like a chemical burn when there's just like a big injection of like adrenaline and cortisol.

[55:41] Laura Camien: It is a killer cocktail.

[55:43] Susan Blackwell: And you know, when you're laying in bed and that thought is like a lightning bolt through your brain. That's the like I it's like a hot poker, and you're like searing it, and it's I always feel like I experience it like a cigarette business moment happens.

[55:57] Laura Camien: It's like yes, yes, exactly.

[56:00] Susan Blackwell: And I'd like to use the word jump up out of bed of like, oh my God. Like there will be no more sleep in this moment.

[56:07] Laura Camien: Somebody gave me a massage.

[56:07] Susan Blackwell: Because somebody just poked me with a hot poker.

[56:10] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah.

[56:12] Susan Blackwell: So just a few more in case these are helpful. Seeking feedback, asking for feedback from others on your completed project or your milestone can provide new perspectives and help you see your work in a different way.

[56:25] Laura Camien: We do this on the regulars in the Sparks File.

[56:28] Susan Blackwell: And this is what Tammy did. This is specifically what Tammy did with us. I'm going to share it because I think it's so brilliant. After Tammy's mini East Coast tour of her show, she used one of her creativity share slots in the Illum mastermind to ask her fellow Sparkfile masterminders if you saw the show. Could I have some affirmations on it? Could you share your favorite part? And if it impacted you in any way, could you name it?

[56:55] Laura Camien: And I thought brilliant.

[56:57] Susan Blackwell: It's brilliant. And it's what she needed.

[56:59] Laura Camien: That's right.

[57:00] Susan Blackwell: So that she could move on to the next iteration of the show.

[57:04] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[57:05] Susan Blackwell: And, you know, process through. I just thought it was brilliant that she, as an artist, defined what she needed and she asked for it.

[57:13] Laura Camien: I'm a big fan.

[57:14] Susan Blackwell: The clarity of that. Like, yes, we are big proponents of the artist determining what I need and not just a blanket. What'd you guys think?

[57:22] Laura Camien: Not never just a blanket. What did you think about it?

[57:24] Susan Blackwell: Please never.

[57:25] Laura Camien: Please never.

[57:27] Susan Blackwell: Banish it.

[57:28] Laura Camien: Banish it.

[57:29] Susan Blackwell: Be more specific and ask for what you need.

[57:32] Laura Camien: Um, just a few more. Experiment and play, allowing yourself to experiment and play with new techniques, mediums, styles. This can help you explore new ideas and directions while also processing your thoughts and feelings about the completed project or milestone.

[57:48] Susan Blackwell: So with Neski, I'm talking to you. Neski was talking about taking an artist date, going somewhere new.

[57:55] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[57:56] Susan Blackwell: Suwa was talking about getting silly and playing with her kids, specifically after a big creative output.

[58:03] Laura Camien: And I was like, that's all experiment and play.

[58:05] Susan Blackwell: That's great. Like getting into a different brain gear.

[58:09] Laura Camien: Loved that.

[58:10] Susan Blackwell: And finally taking action, using what you have learned from the completed project or milestone to set new goals and take action towards your next creative endeavor. Taking that action can help you move forward and build upon what you've learned.

[58:24] Laura Camien: And I think this is what Lynn was talking about when he said, take that break, sit in it, feel it, and then have a plan for a week from now.

[58:32] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I was gonna say that action comes after it's like the final step of the processing. So you have rested, you have reflected, you have moved your body, you have done what you've rewarded yourself, celebrated yourself.

[58:50] Laura Camien: Pick, you know, pick two or three of those.

[58:53] Susan Blackwell: You've done those, and then comes action.

[58:57] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[58:57] Susan Blackwell: I love it, Suze.

[58:58] Laura Camien: I love it.

[58:59] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love this. I love this clarity for us.

[59:03] Laura Camien: I love offering this as a resource to our listeners and to the people in the Sparks file.

[59:09] Susan Blackwell: And to all you creatives out there, we really encourage you to take the time to, and it doesn't have to be a long time. What I was just describing about where I go through moment by moment, that's on a car ride home from someplace.

[59:22] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[59:23] Susan Blackwell: And I'll literally, I've said to you sometimes when I'm on long car rides, I like to have, in addition to sharing a bed with Laura Camien, I like to have long, long phone conversations with her because we just don't talk enough at work.

[59:36] Laura Camien: Show them.

[59:36] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Those are the outside of work conversations. But I remember being on long car rides and having conversations with you and being like, okay, I'm going to get off the phone now because I just want to think through what happened today.

[59:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[59:49] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And that's what I was doing. Love it. So I just we encourage you to take that time. Doesn't have to be a long time, but process your big creative milestones and conclusions. Celebrate your successes, process the wins, process the pain, learn from your experiences, grow as a creative, become a master.

[1:00:10] Laura Camien: And keep going.

[1:00:12] Susan Blackwell: And keep going.

[1:00:13] Laura Camien: Keep going.

[1:00:15] Susan Blackwell: A creative milestone signals not just the end of a creative chapter, but it can herald the beginning of the new and the next. But by taking that time to reflect and learn, you really will be better prepared to swing back around the spark cycle to generate some fresh sparks and to move forward.

[1:00:37] Laura Camien: And that is my spark.

[1:00:39] Susan Blackwell: Suze, I love this.

[1:00:41] Laura Camien: Thanks, Kim. And I love that like so many of our clients, our beloved clients, contributed to this because of that spark round.

[1:00:52] Susan Blackwell: And thank you so much, everybody, for sharing these incredible ideas.

[1:00:56] Laura Camien: Yes, thank you.

[1:00:58] Susan Blackwell: We adore you. And look, you helped us make a podcast today.

[1:01:02] Laura Camien: Yay!

[1:01:02] Susan Blackwell: So I guess that's it.

[1:01:04] Laura Camien: That's it.

[1:01:04] Susan Blackwell: This episode of the Sparks File was made on the lands of the Lenape people. And as always, we hope it put another bunch of sparks in your file.

[1:01:12] Laura Camien: Hey, listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us and be a member of the Sparkfile community to bring your creative ideas to life, you can email us at the sparkfile at gmail.com or you can submit through our website, the sparkfile.com.

[1:01:31] Susan Blackwell: We will even happily take your feedback. But you know the price of admission. First, you gotta share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[1:01:40] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at the Sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review this podcast. It really does help other listeners to find us.

[1:01:50] Susan Blackwell: Also, if you like this podcast, we do hope you'll share it with people that you love, maybe people who could use it.

[1:01:56] Laura Camien: And if you didn't like it, why don't you go process a milestone?

[1:02:00] Susan Blackwell: Why don't you do that? Process this.

[1:02:04] Laura Camien: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[1:02:13] Susan Blackwell: It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[1:02:19] Laura Camien: You know you gotta take it and make it.

[1:02:24] Susan Blackwell: Bye.

[1:02:24] Laura Camien: Bye, friends.

[1:02:26] Susan Blackwell: Go process your creative conclusions and milestones.

[1:02:30] Laura Camien: Celebrate yourself.

[1:02:31] Susan Blackwell: I celebrate myself.

[1:02:32] Laura Camien: I celebrate myself.

[1:02:33] Susan Blackwell: I celebrate myself by eating pizza is a song I heard once.

[1:02:38] Laura Camien: When I boke into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files.

[1:02:47] Susan Blackwell: Could be something that I wanna take or how I wanna be.

[1:02:52] Laura Camien: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[1:02:57] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[1:03:02] Laura Camien: Let's open up the sparkfile.