This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file. Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in my spark spa. Spark! I jump into my sparks. Let's open up the spark file.

[0:36] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File where we believe that everyone is creative, but smack creative people don't go it alone.

[0:47] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:45] Laura Camien: And I'm Laura Camien.

[0:47] Susan Blackwell: And we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life. If you are an OG member of the Sparks File community, hey, welcome back, Sparkler.

[1:00] Laura Camien: Peep peep poo!

[1:01] Susan Blackwell: If you're joining us for the first time, welcome, friend. Know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives. But hold the phone. You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a Sparks File? A Spark File is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and all of your fascinations.

[1:22] Laura Camien: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out. But don't despair. We're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity to light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:46] Susan Blackwell: Or a series of courses designed to support people as they clarify their creative vision and bring that bad boy to life. Or a soon-to-be-delivered keynote address that shares the essence of your creative ethos. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks. And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too. You know what that means, friends? That means we have more sparks than we can possibly use in this lifetime.

[2:16] Laura Camien: True, Susan. True. So if something lights you up, we encourage you to take that thing and make something out of it. Without further ado, let's open up the Sparks File.

[2:23] Susan Blackwell: The Sparks File.

[2:32] Laura Camien: Laura Camien.

[2:34] Susan Blackwell: Susie Blackwell. Guess what day it is, Laura Camien.

[2:38] Laura Camien: Well, I can tell you it's the day we record the final episode of season three of the Sparks File Podcast.

[2:48] Susan Blackwell: That's what day it is. It's the season three finale recording day, baby. So not only is it podcast recording day, which you know I love, but it's also season three, three seasons, Laura Camien.

[3:03] Laura Camien: So exciting.

[3:04] Susan Blackwell: And I just think back to when we started this, it was pre-pandemic.

[3:08] Laura Camien: Yep.

[3:09] Susan Blackwell: And we kept this going. Or shall I say, this kept us going.

[3:15] Laura Camien: That might be more accurate.

[3:19] Susan Blackwell: It kept us going.

[3:20] Laura Camien: That's right. Having this little creative baby to focus on.

[3:24] Susan Blackwell: We used to record live together all the time.

[3:28] Laura Camien: Makersodes.

[3:29] Susan Blackwell: Think your sows is like arranging a quiet place in the city, first of all. Good luck.

[3:35] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[3:36] Susan Blackwell: And with busy people's schedules, busy lives and professional people doing their things, trying to arrange for that in a quiet space, make that recording happen. That was some running around.

[3:52] Laura Camien: That's how we used to do this.

[3:52] Susan Blackwell: And then that pandemic normalized things like Zencaster, where you can get on video.

[4:01] Laura Camien: Not a sponsor.

[4:02] Susan Blackwell: Wish they were.

[4:02] Laura Camien: Wish they were.

[4:03] Susan Blackwell: But we could still see like the beautiful faces of our guests, but be seated at our own desks at home.

[4:11] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[4:12] Susan Blackwell: A beautiful thing.

[4:13] Laura Camien: It's a beautiful thing.

[4:14] Susan Blackwell: I'm thankful for it.

[4:15] Laura Camien: I'm thankful for the technology that has allowed us to continue making this podcast for three seasons through a pandemic.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I liked that little jingle scene.

[4:26] Laura Camien: Did you?

[4:26] Susan Blackwell: I feel like it sounds like most of the jingles I sing. I think I feel like I just sing the same three tunes, but just put different words.

[4:34] Laura Camien: And you might know that if you've been listening to this podcast for three seasons.

[4:37] Susan Blackwell: Well, I still like it.

[4:38] Laura Camien: Well, thank you. I'd love to talk a little bit about the past. I'd love to reflect. I'd love to talk a little bit about the future.

[4:44] Susan Blackwell: Are you game?

[4:45] Laura Camien: I'm here for it.

[4:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Do you want to look back first?

[4:49] Laura Camien: Let's reflect.

[4:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Let's reflect. Where to begin? Well, I feel like we just did some of it. Three seasons of this podcast.

[5:00] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[5:01] Susan Blackwell: This last season was pretty much last fall to now, right?

[5:06] Laura Camien: November, November to April.

[5:09] Susan Blackwell: We're gonna take a short break and then we'll be back again. Not to worry. Don't worry. Don't want to cause any anxiety. We'll be right back.

[5:17] Laura Camien: Yeah, but we did some good stuff. Do you want to talk about like what about your favorites? Do you want to focus on a favorite?

[5:24] Susan Blackwell: I love this game. I think this is how we should play this game. I don't remember what we did last time we concluded a season, but maybe this is what we'll do this time.

[5:32] Laura Camien: I don't think anyone else remembers.

[5:34] Susan Blackwell: I don't think so. How about I share a spark that you did that I loved?

[5:39] Laura Camien: Okay.

[5:40] Susan Blackwell: And vice versa. And then maybe we can each share a spark that we did.

[5:45] Laura Camien: So I'll share Susan's spark that I really enjoyed doing, and vice versa.

[5:49] Susan Blackwell: I like it. Do you like it?

[5:50] Laura Camien: This is great reflection.

[5:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I love this game. Okay. I'm gonna start by sharing a spark that you did that I loved, and that has really stayed with me. And I'm going to praise you, and you just have to take it.

[6:08] Laura Camien: Oh, I like this game too. You ready? Tell me great things about me.

[6:12] Susan Blackwell: Okay. Here's a great thing about you. You did a spark on creative resistance.

[6:17] Laura Camien: Oh.

[6:18] Susan Blackwell: Remember that spark?

[6:19] Laura Camien: I do.

[6:20] Susan Blackwell: I liked that spark. AKA The Monster at the End of This Episode, where you used, which I the more I thought about it, the more I was like, this is a genius metaphor for creative resistance. The children's book, The Monster at the End of This Book, featuring our furry beloved Grover. And you sparked the hell out of that spark. And it's such a powerful for creatives. Stephen Pressfield's The War of Art and just that resistance that can the more important something is to us, the higher the stakes, the more resistance can be attached to it.

[6:59] Laura Camien: And I feel like you described it either in the podcast, or you subsequently made curriculum out of it for the Sparks File creativity coaching courses.

[7:10] Susan Blackwell: That was fun.

[7:11] Laura Camien: Oh, beautiful. So this is a double scoop, but I feel like in one of those places, and I can't remember where it was exactly, but you talked, I believe, about how if our creativity or our creative project that we're interested in doing is a tree, that shadow is the resistance. And the bigger the tree, the bigger the swing you want to take, the bigger the creative project, the bigger and longer that shadow can be. And I just I think of it whenever resistance rises up for me in small, medium, or large ways. And I just felt like that episode of the podcast. I feel like it resonated with me, but I feel like it resonated with a lot of other people as well. So that was a real, that was a real fave for me.

[7:53] Susan Blackwell: Thank you, Suze. Thank you so much. That was a lot of fun to do. Kind of shocked me in doing some of the research that that Stephen Pressfield, I mean, he totally gets credit for kind of coining the term creative resistance, which I was aware of and had read all of his books years ago, but didn't realize that truly no one else has kind of touched the subject. They were just like, well, Stephen Pressfield covered that. Until strangely, this intersected with something I'd done a spark with seasons ago, which was the book My Friend Fear.

[8:29] Laura Camien: Right.

[8:29] Susan Blackwell: So for me, I was like, oh, there are some people writing about a different option. You don't have to see resistance as your mortal enemy to be fought to the death, but you could choose to see it as a friend that's there to kind of light the path and show you like how important this is. What's important to you, and also a friend who's just trying to keep you safe.

[8:52] Laura Camien: That is correct.

[8:54] Susan Blackwell: Well intentioned, but and sometimes it's sort of like, bib, you need to sit down. I got this. You talked about something, I think in the episode, and then you brought it to life in the Sparks File Creativity Coaching, which is writing a letter to our resistance. And I actually did it. I actually did what you proposed, and it's a powerful exercise because it really helps you articulate how resistance can show up and live for you, and then you can tell it to fuck straight off, or you can just so compassionately be like, come on, little resistance. You can you can sit on my shoulder. I'm gonna get this done. You can sit and watch me do it if you want. But you can be right here if you want.

[9:39] Laura Camien: Yeah, and all different shades in between. So I love that podcast and the subsequent curriculum you generated out of it. So that was real favorite.

[9:46] Susan Blackwell: Thank you. That was super fun. I would like to say that you have had many, many a great episodes during this season.

[9:58] Laura Camien: Well, thank you, Laura Gibbon. It makes it a bit difficult to decide, but I think I'm going to go. Mine might be a double scoop as well, because I think I'm gonna go with one of my favorites that you shared this season, is a recent one, Dead Eyes.

[10:19] Susan Blackwell: Oh, Dead Eyes.

[10:20] Laura Camien: It's about the Dead Eyes podcast. And I think one of the many reasons that I love it and why it's a double scoop is that you also have developed this curriculum along with Thomas Schultzheis called Let Me Try That Again.

[10:35] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[10:36] Laura Camien: And if you haven't taken one of our workshops or been present when Susan has delivered this curriculum, it really is a beautiful opportunity to take one of those moments of perceived failure in our life and rewrite the ending to that story to offer ourselves some forgiveness and to know that as John Lennon has said, and we have shared, I'm sure before, everything is okay in the end. And if it's not okay, it's not the end.

[11:06] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[11:06] Laura Camien: So your curriculum around that concept allows us to kind of extend the story. It's not over yet. We can rewrite that ending, and then we can complete it and put it to bed. And the beauty of this Dead Eyes podcast that you shared with us is like it's such a beautiful example of someone who took this thing from 15, 20 years ago. This painful, like flaming curveball that came at them when they were just like, oh my God, it's so painful during an audition process.

[11:42] Susan Blackwell: Uh yeah.

[11:43] Laura Camien: Yeah. So painful. And although they have obviously gone on with their lives, they have lived full and wonderful lives, that thing had been stuck in their mind, maybe possibly blocking the flow of some of their creativity. And so what they decided to do was take it, what we call putting the pain in the light, take that pain point, put it right in the spotlight, and say, all right, what do we need to do with this? And he created a whole podcast out of this moment that had been so painful for him. And it's now, I think there's gonna be a season four. I mean, it's just brilliant.

[12:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love that one too.

[12:27] Laura Camien: I love what Connor Ratliff did with this feedback that made its way back to him from Tom Hanks to a casting director to an agent and back to him. This young actor was given the feedback that he was going to be fired from this job that he was so excited to have on Band of Brothers because he had dead eyes. And how something like that can stick with you. We were actually talking with a client who listened to the podcast and said, I've got to tell you, I was in a casting situation. All I wanted was this role. All I wanted was this part. And the casting director said to their face, your teeth are too big, they're not proportionate with the rest of your face. And that's why you can't. And they, this client said, I have thought about that at least once a month for a couple decades now.

[13:22] Susan Blackwell: And it's just amazing how those it's almost like, well, it's not almost like, I think it is just like these small, medium, and large size creative wounds.

[13:33] Laura Camien: And if we don't process through them in whether it's a let me try that again exercise or, you know, three episodes of the Dead Eyes podcast, like if we don't process through them, they will continue to not just persist but inform us.

[13:50] Susan Blackwell: Connor Ratliff, he stopped acting for years and years and years, 12 or 13 years, worked in a bookstore, and then kind of got back on that path and is now doing just great.

[13:50] Laura Camien: Doing just great.

[14:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, but I think it's wonderful that he could take what was a wound that became scars and then make something wildly, wildly creative out of it.

[14:16] Laura Camien: So awesome.

[14:17] Susan Blackwell: I love, love, love, loved.

[14:20] Laura Camien: I love preparing for that spark.

[14:22] Susan Blackwell: I loved writing that spark.

[14:23] Laura Camien: I loved sharing that spark.

[14:25] Susan Blackwell: I love, I love that spark, and I'm so thankful to Connor Ratliff for serving it up.

[14:30] Laura Camien: Serve up them sparks.

[14:32] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I loved it too.

[14:34] Laura Camien: You did a beautiful job with that.

[14:36] Susan Blackwell: Thank you.

[14:37] Laura Camien: Do you want to share one of your favorite sparks that you did?

[14:41] Susan Blackwell: Oh, a favorite that I did.

[14:44] Laura Camien: Um, I do, Suze, I do.

[14:48] Susan Blackwell: And I'm going to say one of the favorites that I did was it's really inexplicable, but the art of the con.

[14:48] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah.

[14:48] Susan Blackwell: The art of the con was really fun.

[15:04] Laura Camien: And maybe that's because my quote unquote research for that spark involved watching a lot of Netflix.

[15:13] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[15:14] Laura Camien: Watching the Tinder swindler, watching the inventing Anna, and kind of getting immersed in this cultural moment we're having where we're like fascinated with cons.

[15:29] Susan Blackwell: But it was fun to really learn about why cons, you know, when when cons become really prolific and why, and oftentimes it is in times of uncertainty, um, cultural and economic uncertainty and political uncertainty, and we're certainly in the midst of those times and have been for a while now.

[15:51] Laura Camien: So it helps me to really make sense of like I'm not imagining that there's more of this stuff going on right now, but that's been true throughout history.

[16:00] Susan Blackwell: When times have been tough, we can count on the confidence game to show up and for people to take advantage of it.

[16:09] Laura Camien: Yeah, that was a super, super fun spark.

[16:14] Susan Blackwell: And we ended up like that.

[16:17] Laura Camien: We finished recording the episode.

[16:19] Susan Blackwell: I feel like that was one of those episodes where we finished recording it and then we talked for another hour afterwards.

[16:25] Laura Camien: We stayed on the line and just kept talking and talking about it.

[16:29] Susan Blackwell: And then I hung up with you and then went out into my life and could not stop talking about that goddamn spark.

[16:37] Laura Camien: It was so delicious.

[16:39] Susan Blackwell: It was a good one.

[16:40] Laura Camien: Super fun.

[16:41] Susan Blackwell: What about you? Do you have one that you did that you particularly liked?

[16:45] Laura Camien: This sounds like it's the douchebaggiest thing to say, but it's like I loved so many of the sparks that I did this season.

[16:51] Susan Blackwell: No, that's good.

[16:52] Laura Camien: That's really good.

[16:53] Susan Blackwell: I know that we did less maker soads this season, but I love like I love talking to Lynn Cox.

[16:57] Laura Camien: That was just like a dream come true.

[16:58] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[16:59] Laura Camien: I loved uh this isn't my choice.

[17:02] Susan Blackwell: These are my runners up.

[17:03] Laura Camien: I loved the Florida Highwaymen Sparks.

[17:05] Susan Blackwell: It had been in my Sparks file for a long time.

[17:07] Laura Camien: And I loved uh learning more about what those folks did and what they made.

[17:14] Susan Blackwell: And I was very inspired as a painter and an entrepreneur.

[17:17] Laura Camien: Like I just love that one.

[17:18] Susan Blackwell: I loved the one about Martha Wash.

[17:21] Laura Camien: Yes.

[17:21] Susan Blackwell: And how people had just continued to use her voice.

[17:25] Laura Camien: That was amazing.

[17:26] Susan Blackwell: And what we all owe Martha Wash for making a difference, taking them to court.

[17:32] Laura Camien: She took her voice back and set precedent that, you know, protects a lot of artists.

[17:37] Susan Blackwell: I so I love that.

[17:38] Laura Camien: But I think the one, I love the one about creatives and money, and I really look forward to creating curriculum around it because I am a real champion of creatives really processing and coming to terms with their relationship to money.

[17:52] Susan Blackwell: Yes, capitalism is an incredibly flawed system that we live within.

[17:57] Laura Camien: And I'm like, okay, so this is where we're at, and how can we still, even if you feel that way, face like your relationship to money and improve it?

[18:08] Susan Blackwell: But I have to say, maybe the thing that was the most useful to me as a human being was the spark that I did on wintering.

[18:17] Laura Camien: So wintering is that book by Katherine May where she talks about the power of rest and retreat.

[18:25] Susan Blackwell: And that book and that spark, really living with that book and preparing it and sharing the spark of it, I think was really healing.

[18:36] Laura Camien: And I don't feel like I'm in a wintering place anymore.

[18:41] Susan Blackwell: Even at the end of like a big podcast season, and even with like we're sort of concluding some of the courses, and we'll take a little break and then we'll gear back up again.

[18:53] Laura Camien: I feel differently.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: And I think a lot of it has to do, some of it has to do with some of the changes that we've made, just working a little bit smarter, not harder with our schedule, et cetera.

[19:04] Laura Camien: But also there was something just about the permission that Catherine May provides in that book to be like sometimes I need to winter, and sometimes I need to return to essential things.

[19:19] Susan Blackwell: And some of the things I talked about on that episode of the podcast, like I just want to like cozy up on the couch and like read ghost stories.

[19:28] Laura Camien: And you know, I did those things and it was super fun.

[19:32] Susan Blackwell: And now I don't think it always has to align with the seasons, like Catherine says in her book, you can be wintering when it is 90 degrees out and the sun is beating down.

[19:41] Laura Camien: That's right.

[19:41] Susan Blackwell: But there's something about giving myself permission to be where I was at, and then now emerging into a spring season, literally and figuratively, yeah, that I just feel great and excited and optimistic.

[19:55] Laura Camien: And you know, there will always be things that we're working through, but I feel good.

[20:00] Susan Blackwell: Well, I'm glad to hear that.

[20:02] Laura Camien: A, and I'm thankful that you shared that with all of us because I feel like you then passed on that permission to me for sure.

[20:11] Susan Blackwell: And I know we've talked to many clients that have felt a difference from this um concept as well.

[20:19] Laura Camien: And it does have to do with like the permission to take the time that you need.

[20:25] Susan Blackwell: Just giving yourself that permission can shorten the time that you need, if that makes sense.

[20:29] Laura Camien: Because oh my god, Laura.

[20:30] Susan Blackwell: Right?

[20:31] Laura Camien: You're not spending any of it battling against it.

[20:33] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[20:34] Laura Camien: We'll often talk about those those times where you're like, well, you know, how was last night?

[20:39] Susan Blackwell: Do you have the night off?

[20:40] Laura Camien: Yes.

[20:41] Susan Blackwell: I neither did anything I wanted to, and I did not relax.

[20:45] Laura Camien: And so trying to find ways to not use our time that way.

[20:50] Susan Blackwell: To allow ourselves to be present to what we're feeling fully.

[20:55] Laura Camien: Yeah, there's that.

[20:56] Susan Blackwell: And there's also boundaries that I set.

[20:59] Laura Camien: I did a real study of boundaries and what they mean and defining them internally for myself.

[21:06] Susan Blackwell: It's an internal game.

[21:07] Laura Camien: It's such an inside job setting them and um, and then like really being in integrity about abiding by them.

[21:17] Susan Blackwell: So there was that, and also I let go of some work life choices that I just feel it just gives me a lighter feeling.

[21:28] Laura Camien: And that feels good.

[21:29] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[21:30] Laura Camien: I feel great as well.

[21:31] Susan Blackwell: This has really been thus far, and it is but April right now, and it feels like it has been a year of growth already and expansion in the biggest sense of it, like in the heart sense of expansion.

[21:48] Laura Camien: And I'm very, very excited for the future.

[21:51] Susan Blackwell: I will say, Laura, I have seen this is a total tangent, but please enjoy it.

[21:55] Laura Camien: I have seen, and let's take a moment to celebrate this.

[21:59] Susan Blackwell: I have seen how there's some like internal work that you have been doing, and I have seen a change within you.

[22:08] Laura Camien: Thank you.

[22:09] Susan Blackwell: I have seen this change where you can articulate when like when your thoughts are trying to pull you into that Jill Bolty Taylor character to part of the brain circuitry that wants to be um scared or wants to, you know, that sort of like little little sweet baby bitey.

[22:28] Laura Camien: What do you call your character two?

[22:29] Susan Blackwell: I can't remember.

[22:30] Laura Camien: Sometimes I the twister, yeah, twister.

[22:33] Susan Blackwell: And I've seen how you now can recognize it and like steer right out of it.

[22:41] Laura Camien: It's fun, it's fun to know somebody so long.

[22:45] Susan Blackwell: I mean decades long, where you can see them grow.

[22:49] Laura Camien: And I remember I haven't heard this a lot lately, but when I was younger, I remember hearing a lot people say, people don't change.

[22:56] Susan Blackwell: Oh, people don't change.

[22:58] Laura Camien: And I was like, really?

[22:59] Susan Blackwell: Because I feel like I'm changing all the goddamn time.

[23:01] Laura Camien: That's right.

[23:02] Susan Blackwell: And I was like, oh, that says more about the person who's saying it than people.

[23:07] Laura Camien: But like you up the hook, doesn't it?

[23:10] Susan Blackwell: But it's fun to see somebody that I've known and loved for so long like doing continuing to do that work and making those good changes.

[23:19] Laura Camien: You and I have both always been people who are, I think, doing the inner work in different ways.

[23:26] Susan Blackwell: So it could be therapists, you know, it could be therapy, it could be through our creativity.

[23:31] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[23:31] Susan Blackwell: And this past year, uh, one, I have a great therapist, but two.

[23:36] Laura Camien: Do you think your therapist listens to this podcast?

[23:39] Susan Blackwell: I don't know if she does, but I will I always tell her when I talk about her.

[23:43] Laura Camien: I'll tell her again.

[23:44] Susan Blackwell: When we meet on Mondays, Mondays, everybody therapy.

[23:49] Laura Camien: But I also began EFT tapping, emotional freedom tapping with Jenny Clift, who we have had on this podcast, and that has been extraordinary.

[24:02] Susan Blackwell: But also, in addition to all of that, Suze, I a lot of it has been this the Sparkfile work that we are doing because in the past year I stepped away from full-time work on anything else besides the Sparkfile.

[24:18] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[24:19] Susan Blackwell: And one of the things that people talk about is how having a life that is so busy, busy, busy, busy, busy.

[24:27] Laura Camien: Crisis, crisis, crisis, crisis, and a job that requires that from you.

[24:32] Susan Blackwell: It actually is a way to avoid doing some of the emotional work that you need to do because there's never time for it.

[24:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[24:41] Susan Blackwell: And so it was one of those things, like it was a change I knew I needed to make, but life circumstances, obviously.

[24:50] Laura Camien: But getting the privilege of, and it truly is a privilege to get to like build a business with you and step away from that lifestyle.

[25:01] Susan Blackwell: Like I feel like I'll be changing and growing for quite some time simply from that seismic shift in my life.

[25:11] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah.

[25:13] Susan Blackwell: Uh that makes sense to me.

[25:14] Laura Camien: And I feel that.

[25:15] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[25:16] Laura Camien: I feel that uh in myself, in my own experience.

[25:19] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[25:20] Laura Camien: Oh so what else?

[25:21] Susan Blackwell: Do you want to reflect on um what about our courses and the curriculum that we've done?

[25:26] Laura Camien: Do you have like a fave?

[25:28] Susan Blackwell: Do you want me to say a fave?

[25:30] Laura Camien: You say a fave.

[25:30] Susan Blackwell: I've got one.

[25:31] Laura Camien: I got one.

[25:32] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[25:33] Laura Camien: Well, I already mentioned the let me try that again curriculum that you have, that I just think about it all the time.

[25:42] Susan Blackwell: I think about it anytime like a little painful moment comes up for me from a show that I did or review that I read or uh comments someone made offhand.

[25:54] Laura Camien: And I think about how useful that curriculum is.

[25:58] Susan Blackwell: I just can't even tell you.

[26:00] Laura Camien: It's life changing.

[26:01] Susan Blackwell: I not to be like a weirdo because Thomas Schultz and I made it, so it's weird to speak this way about something you've made, but I love that curriculum.

[26:11] Laura Camien: I love it and I use it in my own life all the time.

[26:14] Susan Blackwell: And sometimes when we teach it, I'm sort of like, I don't know how to tell impress upon people.

[26:19] Laura Camien: I'm just like, for real, if you actually do this, if the minute like this, you're like, oh, flaming curveball, like the minute you can be like, okay, I'm gonna take a breath and then I'm gonna start initiating the sequence, the let me try that again sequence.

[26:36] Susan Blackwell: It has helped me to so much more quickly, like just take the thing, feel the feel, feel all the fucking feelings around it, like feel the pain of it, feel the anger, feel the suffering, like feel all of it, and then metabolize it into okay, how am I going to extend this story and rewrite the ending?

[26:59] Susan Blackwell: It really, if you rock it, sometimes it takes multiple passes, but if you rock it, I'm telling you, it works. So I stand by your pick.

[27:05] Laura Camien: Yeah, I appreciate that. Um, can I pick? Can I say a pick?

[27:11] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[27:12] Laura Camien: Laura Cammyan.

[27:14] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[27:14] Laura Camien: Laura Marie Francis, Lynn Cammyan.

[27:19] Susan Blackwell: Not my name, but I'll take it. You crafted and delivered curriculum on essentially art versus commerce or art and commerce being beautiful, intertwined friends. And Laura Cammy, I loved it for so many reasons. I loved it because I think it can be of great use to creatives as they share their light. I loved it because it was a real opportunity for people, like you have said, and we have said, and we talk about like your bona fides and how you know you've spent decades of your life, like starting as an intern and all the way up to the what was your title?

[28:01] Laura Camien: VP of communications.

[28:02] Susan Blackwell: VP of communications for Blue Man Group globally. And it's we've we talk about it, but you know, it could go by pretty quickly in an introduction, but it was just an opportunity for you to in a way that may have made your cheeks hot because it might feel like bragging, but it's just straight up motherfucking facts. Like you basically told the story of that arc of your experience sharing the light with Blue Man Group and how you developed, you sort of took what was in the air there and distilled it into marketing philosophies and then talked with our clients about how they can distill their own marketing philosophies, but also kind of this central idea emerged around for so many people the idea of self-promotion, so many artists, the idea of self-promotion and marketing and whether that's social media or whatever it is, press releases, interviews, it can feel or even just when somebody says, "What are you working on now?" responding to that can just make you want to crawl inside your own butt.

Like it gives you that sort of blurbal shutdown feeling. And what I was left with, sorry, I'm so sparked by this, Laura. I was so crazy sparked by that. You're like, say more great things about me. How great was I? Where I by the end of the session, I was like, oh my God, this sharing the light as an artist, this like getting your work out there and talking about it and marketing it and advertising it and publicizing it can be a real act of creativity and of love. Because I've got my own hang ups about all that stuff, and I just sat back, and first of all, I just was beaming because I was just like, that's my partner, and you're so smart, and you have so many years of experience and just like a depth of knowledge that you're drawing from.

And you have, I'm sure there's been trial and error, like you have arrived at these ideas from decades of experience. And so to hear you just serve it up on a silver platter and help people draw corollaries about how this can live in their creativity. You don't have to be like a global creative phenomenon. You can be somebody who is like, I am making a one woman show. I am doing work with my Dunkin' Donuts franchise. And I want to share the light of it in a way that is filled with creativity and love and authenticity and integrity. And I just thought that you knocked it out of the park and scratched the surface of your knowledge about that. So I was crazy proud of you. I thought the curriculum was excellented. And so that is my pick.

[30:58] Laura Camien: Thank you, Suze. I have to say that it was super fun to do. It was super fun to share all of that. My hot cheeks, I will tell you. Hot cheeks. My cheeks were hot because I was realizing like I am not a person who likes to talk about my achievements. I feel like I was raised very, very, very much under the work will speak for itself. Uh huh. The work speaks for itself. And so I don't lack confidence. I actually moved through the world knowing the people who know me and know my work know that it's quality. But the world has also changed. And it feels like now, if we let our work speak for itself, it does, but it might be a whisper. It might need you to just put a microphone in front of its little face.

[31:51] Susan Blackwell: That is correct.

[31:51] Laura Camien: We need to be the microphone. It's little creative mouth. A megaphone because there's just so much noise out there.

[31:58] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[31:58] Laura Camien: So everyone can be forgiven for not noticing that your work is speaking for itself because there's so much distraction. You've got to give your work a fighting chance to be heard and seen by others. So that's one thing I realized like, yeah, that's me adjusting to okay, all right. Maybe I do need to say these things out loud. And the other thing today, when we were talking about this, this idea that so many people have a fantasy that they will get their work up and out and get to a level of success where they can then pass off all the marketing, the promotions of it to someone else.

[32:41] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[32:42] Laura Camien: And that marketing and PR night in shining armor is not coming. I don't know of anyone who can actually stop concerning themselves with it. Because no one's ever going to care about your work as much as you do. Or be able to potentially articulate it as well as you can.

[33:02] Susan Blackwell: That is correct.

[33:03] Laura Camien: So we can have help and we can have support. We can have a huge team of people helping us, but we still want to stay in the driver's seat and be the person who's making the ultimate decisions in terms of what we're conveying to the world. And it can be wildly creative and full of love and full of authenticity. That idea that marketing and promotions can and should be an extension of your creativity, not something separate from and different from your creativity.

[33:34] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[33:35] Laura Camien: And I know that one of the feelings that it can bring up for people is that it gives me that slimy feeling. Like I need to take a shower. And I'm sort of like, what if you did it with enormous integrity?

[33:47] Susan Blackwell: That is correct.

[33:48] Laura Camien: What if you whatever you're trying to connect what you have to offer, whatever it is, whether it's a course, a show, whatever it is, that you're trying to bring it to the audience that wants it and needs it.

[34:03] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[34:03] Laura Camien: And you can. You can absolutely promote your show with your personal integrity intact.

[34:10] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[34:11] Laura Camien: Your personal values intact. Those values can guide you. So yeah, this is I love talking about it because I really truly believe it's possible. I don't know any other way, honestly.

[34:22] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:23] Laura Camien: Because of the work at Blue Man, I don't know of, I can't speak to this idea of like, I'll just pass that off and some marketing person somewhere will create an ad and post it. Well, I've seen it at work in Blue Man Group when Title of the Show was off and on Broadway. And now with The Spark File, and I feel so lucky to, I just feel so lucky to be your partner.

[34:48] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:49] Laura Camien: Because you've got mad wisdom about that stuff. And I feel super stoked that we have you as a resource for our clients because I was just like watching those faces today, and I was like, this is so useful. Because a lot of us do have not only hang ups about it, but also it requires real tools and skills that we don't just emerge from the womb knowing. So to have somebody like you who has that expertise and can just say, yeah, no, here's the steps that you need to take. Laura, I freaking loved it. I was crazy proud of you. And I just thought it was beautiful. And I think there's so much more. I was like part two and part three, like there's so much more to talk about. We just we just scratched the surface there, but I'm so happy that you and so good.

[35:42] Laura Camien: And speaking of like highlights, course and curriculum highlights, friends, we have made some super duper exciting additions to our course roster this year. This is something Laura and I have been like dreaming about and cre be like really putting on our creativity pants and like figuring out all of these pieces and what would be of the most use to address the needs of clients and potential clients. So we've talked to so many people at this point, many who have become clients, others who have not yet become clients because we did not offer at that time what it is you know they needed, but in these conversations, we've learned so much about how we can actually serve and what's needed.

[36:35] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[36:35] Laura Camien: And so can I say, can I say one of the things that we added?

[36:38] Susan Blackwell: Say it.

[36:39] Laura Camien: So we added this year what we call Ignite, which is an eight-session creativity jump start. This program is really for people who are craving an immediate infusion of creativity in their life and an opportunity to reconnect with their creativity right away. And it is straight up an infusion of creativity. We've had one Ignite course already. We'll have another later in the year. This group of incredible people, all we should say all of our programs are curated. So when we say select group, that now applies actually to all of our programs because we're trying very much to curate a group of people who are kind and generous and talented and open-hearted and vulnerable. So this group of people was no disappointment.

They were fucking phenomenal. And in just eight weeks or eight sessions, they wrote drafts of plays, one person shows, albums were completed, TV pilots are started, career paths were envisioned, memoirs were started or advanced, you name it. And we're so, so proud. We're proud of that group.

[38:00] Susan Blackwell: Oh, that group.

[38:02] Laura Camien: And we're proud of we're proud of what they accomplished. And frankly, we're really proud that we were able to deliver a program that really did light a fire under them. I do feel proud of that. And just restoring people's faith in humanity. When we were talking with people after it was over, I just was like, I think that the content was good for just turbo boosting people's creativity. But I was also like, I think we've also restored your faith in humanity a little bit, which was very gratifying.

[38:30] Susan Blackwell: Well, that is true because we did have several members say, to be honest, I thought I was someone who did not like people. I didn't like other people. But then I realized I just didn't like the people I was around. I love these people. So that was really joyful when you bring together a group of great people and they can recognize, you know, Game Sease Game.

[38:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[38:54] Susan Blackwell: They're all like, wow, I'm among great people.

[38:58] Laura Camien: Yeah. So yeah, that we're really, really proud of that. We'll have another Ignite session again later in the year, but love it. Another thing that we are gearing up to add is a new program in the fall. Can I take this one, Laura Camien?

[39:12] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[39:14] Susan Blackwell: Oh, please do. Share, share, share.

[39:16] Laura Camien: It is called Illum. Uh Illum is it's a mastermind. It is a brain trust of high-functioning, experienced makers that are going to be working across several disciplines. These Illumineers, I guess, is what it's better than Illuminati.

[39:37] Susan Blackwell: I guess so.

[39:37] Laura Camien: These Illumineers have they've processed through a lot of the fears and challenges that we all experience around creativity, and they've demonstrated an ability to complete creative projects and they possess a very strong, clear creative vision for what they want to make next. And we are going to support these artists as they tackle big projects and work with them to effectively share their creativity on a larger scale, or as we say around The Spark File, we're going to support these creatives as they share the light of their work with the world.

[40:12] Susan Blackwell: And that is already shaping up to be we're yeah, we're opening up. We'll probably be announcing that very soon if we haven't already by the time we're going to be. I think we just announced it on this podcast. Oh, we're announcing it now. Hey, I mean, we'll be opening up for enrollment. We're enrolling now, is what I'll say there. We're enrolling now for that program. And it's a year long. So it is it is truly an investment in getting that work completed and out into the world.

[40:44] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[40:45] Susan Blackwell: And then, of course, of course, we have our the cornerstone. The cornerstone, the select group, which we are now calling what's us? Blaze.

[40:55] Laura Camien: Blaze.

[40:56] Susan Blackwell: Blaze. Like a blazing star. This is a sticker that we have on our desk from our wonderful client, Jenny Steingart. She made us, she made these stickers and sent them to us. And it's from which one of the stoics said this. It's Marcus Aurelius.

[41:09] Laura Camien: Oh, it's Marcus Aurelius.

[41:11] Susan Blackwell: Look how Laura just pulled that out of her butt. Super classy. A blazing fire makes flame and brightness out of everything that is thrown into it. And that is true of these blazers. Uh I think during our transition time, because this is a new branding, a new name, we'll call it the Select Group Colon Blaze. And this is our six-month creative adventure where we support people as they really hone in on their creative vision and take prolonged regular creative action.

[41:47] Laura Camien: It is because on a regular basis, these blazers are taking big creative swings. They're normalizing that cadence of creative output and normalizing creative risk. And all along the way, we're providing accountability and a little bit of good pressure and giving people the tools to process some of those tough, like creative vampires and negative repetitive thoughts that so many creatives struggle with.

[42:16] Susan Blackwell: And I have to say, I just want to take a second to say these select group colon blazers absolutely killed it this round. I've been like jaw on the ground, floored, floored by what people have gotten done. It's been amazing. Amazing. Like ideas that people have been sitting with, those what if ideas, like I, you know, what if I could write that musical, like sitting with for 10 years.

[42:47] Laura Camien: For years.

[42:48] Susan Blackwell: We've had we like cabarets that not only have been written but now performed live here in New York City. Yeah. Concerts, concerts, social media strategies. There have been people who have like be gotten very creative, very creative with the way they share that social media light, songwriting, photography projects, amazing business plans. One person shows. Yes. Coming to a festival near you.

[43:14] Laura Camien: The analogy that you made to like training for a marathon, like the reason I got so excited is because um, let's not forget Bob Cammy, long distance coach, long distance track coach and cross-country coach. And so when I talk to him about what I do, you know, he's he's very he's all into athletics, but he being the wonderful dad that he is, he'll he'll ask me, he's like, I I want to ask you like what you do. I don't know what questions to ask. Can you help me out a little bit? I'll be like, Yeah, dad, it makes sense. But what we do is not that different from what you do because you would never just send someone out and say, Hey, you're gonna run that marathon this weekend. Good luck to you. You got this.

You would have them train slowly over time, you would have them normalize what it feels like in your body to get to a complete, you know, the complete exhaustion, yeah, rebuild those muscles, yeah, run a little bit more the next week, run a little bit more. And so, like it has actually been a common language for us to talk about what we do. It's been really fun.

[44:18] Susan Blackwell: That's awesome. That's really, really cool. I love it. I feel super proud about the very conscious ways that we have been crafting and delivering these programs. I just want I know that because we're wrapping up season three, I do think it's important to reflect and to celebrate. And what I learned from a spark that you did recently that I loved is the bittersweet feelings of endings. You know, sometimes we have to experience the bitter in order to savor the sweet. Um, but I'm I'm proud of these things that we're making in the world. Too. And I'm so proud of our clients. I'm proud of our clients. And I think it's important to say that with these different courses and the podcast, all of it is designed to meet people where they're at.

So if you're like, I like I like hanging with you ladies, and you never need to get out your checkbook, you keep listening to this podcast. But if you're sort of like, I need that infusion of creativity, or I'm still wrestling with clarify my vision or those vampires, and I need those tools, then blaze it up, Blazer. Or if you're like, I am ready to take it to market or take it to the world, yeah, and turn on the lighthouse like I am ready. I feel like we're meeting people just exactly where they are, and I just, I just feel I feel proud of us. And I am so thankful and honored to get to do this work with our clients who have entrusted us and invested with us. And I'm so thankful and honored to get to work with you, Laura Camien.

[46:01] Laura Camien: Oh, Susie B.

[46:03] Susan Blackwell: Now see, you think I'm gonna get through an episode without crying. And there you go. Not possible. Thank you. I feel the same. I feel the same. I feel very, very lucky. We get to work with extraordinary people who are showing up and doing the work. They are bravely facing those vampires. They are bravely, you know, stepping forward even when they feel fear or resistance. And then to get to build this, build this giant castle with you is amazing. In addition to our client community, and they are so very rad. Then we have like these people around us. Andrew Nielsen, who edits this podcast and serves as a SparkFile team captain. Don't cut this part out, Andrew. Don't Andrew, I swear to Christ, do not cut this part out.

Vanessa Rosas, who rocks our social media. Juliet Gray, who has helped us with our merch store. And is also going to help us with social media. Lucha Kowski, who writes beautiful words that we get to say sometimes. So amazing. And Thomas Schultz. And Thomas Captain. T-Bone Schultz. Spark Bell Team Captain, can we please get that trending? Don't call him teaching artist Thomas Schulteis, which is his preferred branding. Just call him T-Bone. And let's all chip in for that tattoo. We're going to get him that tattoo, that T-bone tattoo. It's gonna be amazing. You're so thoughtful. Right across his neck in like a big gothic font. Right? Am I right? Did I leave anybody out?

[47:40] Laura Camien: Well, I mean everyone, every day, honestly. And to our partners who support us, thank you, partners. All of our sponsors, all of our sponsors, which I guess is us. But honestly, to our listeners, I would say to everybody who tunes in every week. I mean, come on, you listeners. I it's so joyful to know that someone is out there listening and and that this might be helpful to someone.

[48:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[48:06] Laura Camien: Yeah. I feel very, very privileged and very thankful.

[48:10] Susan Blackwell: Me too. I also feel in the mood for a poem by Rumi. Should we close this out?

[48:17] Laura Camien: Yeah, so I just want to say that we have developed a tradition around the spark file. When we conclude something like a course where people have left it all on the dance floor, or a season of a podcast, we do think it's important to reflect and to process a little bit and to even look forward. And we've taken to closing out when we're looking at an ending. We close it out with the words of the poet Rumi, whom we love. Shall we?

[48:49] Susan Blackwell: Let's do it.

[48:50] Laura Camien: All right. I know you're tired, but come, this is the way. In your light, I learn how to love. In your beauty, how to make poems. You dance inside my chest where no one sees you, but sometimes I do. And that sight becomes this art. You and I have spoken all these words, but for the way we have to go, words are no preparation. I have one small drop of knowing in my soul. Let it dissolve in your ocean. A mountain keeps an echo deep inside. That is how I hold your voice. Do not feel lonely. Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion. Set your life on fire. Seek those who fan your flames.

[49:54] Susan Blackwell: I love that last line. Seek those who fan your flames. Laura Camien, you fan my flames.

[49:59] Laura Camien: You fan my flames.

[50:04] Susan Blackwell: Right? Am I right? Guess what? Does this conclude season three of the Sparkfile podcast?

[50:13] Laura Camien: It does.

[50:14] Susan Blackwell: It does. You know what? I have a hope. I have a wish for everyone. I hope that everyone listening stands proud in the knowledge that you are strong, talented, capable creatives who have everything you need to make your vision a reality. If you're listening to this and anything that we said sounds, I don't know, vaguely appealing and supportive to you. Reach out to us. Learn more about this Sparkfile community. It is the shit. No matter what your path is, we look forward to seeing you soon. I don't know how to say it when you're a podcaster. We look forward to you listening to us soon when we return for seasoning inside your ear. We look forward to crawling inside your cochlea. Up inside your ear.

[51:06] Laura Camien: Oh, that's it.

[51:07] Susan Blackwell: This episode of the Sparks File was made on the lands of the Lenape people. And as always, we hope, hope, hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there is a spark you'd like us to explore, or you if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life, you can email us at thesparkfile at gmail.com. No pressure. Or you can submit a little inquiry through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback. You know we will.

[52:41] Laura Camien: Bye.

[52:42] Susan Blackwell: Bye.

[52:45] Laura Camien: I'm still a Kennedy. When I bumped into something that inspires me, I dump it in my spark fire.

[52:56] Susan Blackwell: Spark could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in the spark fire. I jump into my spark fire. Let's open up the spark fire.