This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Laura Camien: Spark file!

[0:19] Susan Blackwell: To be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be, I pump it in my spark file.

[0:23] Laura Camien: Spark!

[0:26] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark file.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up this spark file!

[0:36] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:53] Laura Camien: If you are an OG member of the Sparkfile community, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:58] Susan Blackwell: If you're joining us for the first time, hi.

[1:01] Laura Camien: Hi.

[1:02] Susan Blackwell: Hi, welcome.

[1:03] Laura Camien: Welcome, welcome.

[1:04] Susan Blackwell: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:11] Laura Camien: But hold the phones, Ease. You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a Sparkphile?

[1:16] Susan Blackwell: A Sparkfile is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:22] Laura Camien: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you wanna be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:32] Susan Blackwell: But don't despair. We're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity.

[1:42] Laura Camien: To light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:48] Susan Blackwell: Or an outrageous scheme to build the home of your dreams.

[1:54] Laura Camien: I am so fucking excited about whatever's about to come out of your mouth.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: Oh every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[2:06] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:10] Susan Blackwell: That means friends, we have more sparks than we're ever going to possibly be able to use in this lifetime.

[2:16] Laura Camien: So we are begging you, if something lights you up, we encourage you to take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:24] Susan Blackwell: Without further ado, let's open up the Sparkle, Laura Cambian.

[2:34] Laura Camien: I don't know, Suze. This may not be anything that you're expecting, but I'm fascinated with it. So I'm gonna share it today.

[2:42] Susan Blackwell: I love the sentence that you just said got me really, really boned up as well.

[2:49] Laura Camien: You just wait. I'm boned up about just simply the fact that we are sharing sparks today.

[2:56] Susan Blackwell: We have been busy little beavers, all very happy, all good stuff, but it is always a joy when we get to just talk sparks and creativity and stir up some stuff.

[3:07] Laura Camien: Before we turned, hit the record button, turned on the microphones. Why I was saying to Laura Cammy, this is just an ideal day.

[3:17] Susan Blackwell: Let's paint a picture, shall we?

[3:19] Laura Camien: Okay. So it has been snowing for about the past 26 hours here on the mountainside, on the mountainside, and I shoveled and shoveled and shoveled and shoveled, and then literally I would shovel our driveway, which is steep and significant. I would shovel it and then I would go back up to the top of the driveway, and I was like, let's do another pass because it was already collecting again.

[3:48] Susan Blackwell: Wow. And so I did that twice last night. The whole time I was preparing for the spark that I will spark you with on the next episode on another episode. But I um through my headphones, I was listening to research doing some research.

[4:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[4:03] Susan Blackwell: But I have to say, knowing that we were sparking today, drinking in through my ears, this fantastic research that I was doing in preparation for these sparks and for this recording. And now the coziness of being here. The snow continues to fall outside. Oh my gosh. I gave up on the shoveling. I was like, I can't keep up with it. And so I'm completely snowed in.

[4:26] Laura Camien: Yes. And you know that what you can look forward to is putting a log on the fireplace.

[4:31] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Which, like, what's dreamier than that? Well, it's snowing outside and it's quiet. Do you know that movie Minority Report, that Tom Cruise movie?

[4:40] Laura Camien: Yes, I do.

[4:42] Susan Blackwell: Spoiler alert. So the very final scene of that movie, I think it's the final scene of that movie, is in a cabin. I don't live in a cabin, but let's it's in its this beautiful, charming cabin, and there's sunlight coming through the windows. And I think there's like a hot drink with like steam rising off of it. And there are people sitting in front of a fire reading or something.

[5:10] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[5:11] Susan Blackwell: And this is the magic that I want to create today.

[5:16] Laura Camien: Suze, I love that. And I want to just contrast it with life in the city this morning.

[5:24] Susan Blackwell: So did it snow or did you just slush it?

[5:28] Laura Camien: It's just it's not the weather report. It was just like rainy and blustery. It was like blowing umbrellas and did you have to go out?

[5:39] Susan Blackwell: Um I didn't have to, but I chose to because I wanted to work on my spark, and sometimes there's a little cafe that I love to go to. And so they know me there now too. Like, this is that lady who's gonna sit here for like three hours. Um that's me. And so I got in there, and there was a man sitting at the next table over. He was facing out, looking out the windows. When the windows also have like trees and sort of a line of bushes out. So so even if you were on the outside, you couldn't see this. This man would be sort of obscured a bit.

[6:12] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[6:13] Susan Blackwell: So I was seated at my, you know, four-person table that I've taken up with myself and my laptop, and I'm working on my spark.

[6:19] Laura Camien: Oh my shit.

[6:20] Susan Blackwell: Oh my shit. And I was about to put my own headphones on. They have music playing, of course, but I'm like, I'm gonna choose my own adventure music-wise. So I go to put my headphones on, but right before I do, I hear the man say something to the waitress. And I was like, that delicious voice belongs to Robert Downey Jr.

[6:45] Laura Camien: Really?

[6:46] Susan Blackwell: And I look and I can only see him from the side, and I'm like, I'm not gonna stare. That's not my way. But I was like, I'm pretty damn sure. I'm sitting next to Iron Man this morning.

[6:56] Laura Camien: That was this morning?

[6:57] Susan Blackwell: That was this morning, this very morning.

[6:59] Laura Camien: On this blustery New York Street Day.

[7:02] Susan Blackwell: Cold, wet, rainy day. Yeah, but he was kind and lovely to the waitress who I also like. Her name is Colette, which I love her, I love her name. I tell her that every time. And um, anyway, I sat there and I was working on my spark, and I just thought, no, if that man right there can do the things he's done, you know, bounding over buildings and whatnot as a superhero. I can finish this spark this morning. I can do that.

[7:30] Laura Camien: I like that you borrowed that inspiration.

[7:34] Susan Blackwell: And in real life, if that man can get sober and stay sober, like you you can finish a fucking spark.

[7:42] Laura Camien: That is correct. I can finish a spark.

[7:44] Susan Blackwell: So I've just gleaned some energetic inspiration from him. I didn't bug him. Fun, a little star sighting. Can I just say that there's a new um documentary that he slash his father made called Senior?

[8:00] Laura Camien: He made it about his dad, right?

[8:02] Susan Blackwell: But his dad is a filmmaker, so his dad took a heavy hand. So but uh I was saying to we were we were uh flipping through Netflix the other day, and I was recollecting to Nathan, I was like, I spent years of my life talk about boned up having such a lady boner for Robert Downing Jr.

[8:24] Laura Camien: Oh what I mean, he's so charismatic, so dynamic. But like in weird science, he played a douche in that, and I was still like, oh my god, look at his eyelashes. And he was so he was so quick witted, clearly, he was improvising very, very quickly. He's one of those people.

[8:42] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, and that is such a charming thing to me when when anybody can improvise quickly.

[8:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[8:49] Susan Blackwell: Taylor Trench, I don't know if you're listening to this podcast right now, Taylor Trench is one of the fastest improvisers I've ever seen. And it blows my mind because my mind doesn't work that fast, let alone my mouth. And so whenever I see it, I'm just like, ooh, baby.

[9:05] Laura Camien: Oh, hello. What a fun stuff.

[9:09] Susan Blackwell: Yummy Nug Nug you had this morning. Yeah, the other day I was there. Um, and who was there? Um Keegan Michael Key was there the other day. And I don't know, maybe it's starting to get around that that's where I write. I don't know.

[9:25] Laura Camien: Following you.

[9:25] Susan Blackwell: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I'm not, I don't go there because of any star sightings. I it's everyone is like incredibly normal. And if it was Robert Downey Jr., no one bothered him at all today. And no one bothered uh Keegan. It was just all like everyone's just normal.

[9:45] Laura Camien: What was he asking the waitress for? Do you remember?

[9:47] Susan Blackwell: The check. Just he was ready to get the check. And he was there. Like he was reading a newspaper and a magazine. And he also had spread out to like own his space. His jacket was on a different chair. You know, it was like just taking over the joint.

[10:04] Laura Camien: That is fun.

[10:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it was delightful and super fun. I enjoy a good star sighting.

[10:08] Laura Camien: I also enjoy a good hummingbird sighting. It's like it's like those little things that give you a little like zing in your day.

[10:15] Susan Blackwell: Little things, especially when it's kind and lovely. Like he seemed really lovely with the waitress.

[10:20] Laura Camien: No mean hummingbirds, please.

[10:22] Susan Blackwell: No mean hummingbirds. None.

[10:24] Laura Camien: Yeah. It was just nice. And just a reminder like, yeah, extraordinary things can be done by individual humans.

[10:32] Susan Blackwell: It's true. Like you, this spark that did you wrote that you're about to serve me up. I'm so ready to share this with you.

[10:40] Laura Camien: Can I just say the spark that I'm going to share today has been in my Sparks file for actually when this airs, almost exactly 18 years.

[10:51] Susan Blackwell: You are fucking kidding.

[10:53] Laura Camien: I'm not fucking kidding. I'm not exaggerating. That makes it a vintage spark.

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: It's a vintage, it's a very fine flashback, vintage sparks.

[11:02] Laura Camien: Fun. We need a sound effect.

[11:05] Susan Blackwell: Um we have one.

[11:07] Laura Camien: That's it.

[11:08] Susan Blackwell: It's a hydraulic.

[11:10] Laura Camien: Okay, that's good.

[11:11] Susan Blackwell: That's it. That's all you get.

[11:13] Laura Camien: That's all we have the budget for.

[11:15] Susan Blackwell: I love it. It's perfect.

[11:18] Laura Camien: So I printed out the spark. I mean it, tangible, on paper, printed it out 18 years ago. This sparks me. I've been keeping sparks long before you introduced the term the spark file to me.

[11:31] Susan Blackwell: I have been keeping a binder and I still have it.

[11:34] Laura Camien: And Susan, it is it's a binder that I procured from one of the offices where I used to work. They were gonna throw it away. And I was like, I'll take that binder because I knew if I tried to purchase it, number one, I wouldn't be able to find such a thing because it was so old.

[11:50] Susan Blackwell: Oh, and it was one of those ones where like the um the thing on the spine that holds the card that tells you what's inside the binder is metal.

[11:59] Laura Camien: That's how old it is.

[12:00] Susan Blackwell: And it's literally, I'm gonna say seven inches wide, the binder. It's huge and it's filled with articles and sparks.

[12:11] Laura Camien: And this is what you're giving me. You're giving me vintage printed out spark.

[12:17] Susan Blackwell: Yes, because listen, when the internet first came into our lives, like we didn't know you could find your way back to that article anytime.

[12:25] Laura Camien: Sometimes exactly.

[12:27] Susan Blackwell: You might get 40 bored on that shit. Well, Suze, the thing is, this spark, I have lost track of it, searched for it on numerous occasions, tried to go online. There were no words. You'll hear when we get into it, you'll see why. Like there were no unique enough words that could find it.

[12:45] Laura Camien: Oh my God, I'm so excited.

[12:47] Susan Blackwell: And more recently, I found it when I was going through an old like box of sparks. And I thought, oh my God, here you are. I'm gonna put you somewhere really, really special where I will not lose you again. And then this week, when I plan to write a spark about this article for this very podcast, I spent hours trying to find the very special spot that I put it.

[13:16] Laura Camien: And turns out I put it back in that very same box of sparks, thinking I won't lose it now that I know where it is.

[13:23] Susan Blackwell: So I was very excited when I found it again. And I was like, okay, I can tell you this story. But over the years, like in different screenwriting classes and stuff, I've been like, I think I want to write a screenplay about this, and I just never have. And so now I invite someone else to do it. Here's the thing this spark comes completely and entirely from a single article in the New York magazine by Robert Culker. It was published on January 28th in 2005, and it is titled How Far Would You Go for a Piece of Real Estate.

[14:04] Laura Camien: I do not think I'm alone in admitting that I love to walk around New York.

[14:10] Susan Blackwell: I love to look inside people's apartments.

[14:13] Laura Camien: Yes, probably in a creepy way.

[14:15] Susan Blackwell: I love to stand there.

[14:16] Laura Camien: It doesn't.

[14:17] Susan Blackwell: And just peek in, right?

[14:18] Laura Camien: It's great when the after the sun has set because then the interior lights are on.

[14:23] Susan Blackwell: And people just leave their blinds open.

[14:26] Laura Camien: Listen, it's the best.

[14:28] Susan Blackwell: You get to just fantasize about like what's it like to live in there?

[14:28] Laura Camien: What's it like to have their interior designer?

[14:36] Susan Blackwell: How many doorbells are there?

[14:38] Laura Camien: Because that indicates if it's a single family dwelling, that whole townhouse.

[14:42] Susan Blackwell: Or has it been cut up into like 20 apartments?

[14:45] Laura Camien: That's right.

[14:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[14:46] Laura Camien: What is life like in this brownstone?

[14:49] Susan Blackwell: Or what is life like in this industrial loft?

[14:53] Laura Camien: My favorite, Susan, is when I see what looks like a house that is built on top of a building.

[15:00] Susan Blackwell: I'm obsessed with those.

[15:02] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[15:02] Susan Blackwell: House on a building.

[15:04] Laura Camien: House on a building.

[15:05] Susan Blackwell: I want a mid-century house on top of a building in New York City.

[15:09] Laura Camien: And I want the top of the building to be my front yard and my backyard.

[15:13] Susan Blackwell: Bring in trees and grass, all of it.

[15:16] Laura Camien: Croquet on the roof.

[15:17] Susan Blackwell: And I will live inside of it.

[15:19] Laura Camien: Like it feels like a real house.

[15:22] Susan Blackwell: There's one of those on 2nd Avenue, I think.

[15:24] Laura Camien: And there's one down on Houston.

[15:27] Susan Blackwell: You probably have seen that one.

[15:28] Laura Camien: It looks like a little tiny lighthouse.

[15:30] Susan Blackwell: It's built on top of a building, probably like about a 12 story building or so.

[15:34] Laura Camien: It's Houston in what ish?

[15:36] Susan Blackwell: Oh, probably around East.

[15:40] Laura Camien: Probably around A or B.

[15:43] Susan Blackwell: Amazing.

[15:44] Laura Camien: And then there's that one over in the West Village that is a little yieldie wood house that is built off the side of a typical New York apartment building.

[15:55] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[15:56] Laura Camien: And so they have, if my understanding is correct, they have the little house, and then it goes into the building.

[16:05] Susan Blackwell: And they have a yard and they have a fence around the yard.

[16:09] Laura Camien: And every time I would go for a walk in the West Village for the 20 years that I lived there, we would always stop and think, what if we had something like that?

[16:20] Susan Blackwell: And there was a place to park a car.

[16:22] Laura Camien: You could pull into the fence.

[16:24] Susan Blackwell: You're like living in the city and feeling like you're living in the suburbs.

[16:28] Laura Camien: It's just everything.

[16:30] Susan Blackwell: There would be like kids, yeah, kids' toys in the front yard.

[16:33] Laura Camien: And I was just like, Ivy.

[16:35] Susan Blackwell: It's unbelievable.

[16:36] Laura Camien: It's too special.

[16:37] Susan Blackwell: It's unbelievable.

[16:38] Laura Camien: Yeah, it's amazing.

[16:39] Susan Blackwell: So I also know that like this idea of fantasizing about other people's homes, this is not unique to New York by any means.

[16:46] Laura Camien: I'm sure it's true everywhere.

[16:48] Susan Blackwell: Wes and I literally, any and every city we vacation in or visit for any reason, we start to Zillow and we start to like just imagine life in a different home.

[16:59] Laura Camien: Yes.

[17:00] Susan Blackwell: And I think a lot of us like to walk around or drive around and just dream about home and the possibility of home.

[17:07] Laura Camien: What it could look like and what it could feel like.

[17:11] Susan Blackwell: So this spark that I want to share today is a story.

[17:15] Laura Camien: Just sit back, relax by your cozy fireplace.

[17:18] Susan Blackwell: Oh, this is the best.

[17:19] Laura Camien: It's just gonna be a little story about a man who some would say took his obsession for acquiring a home a bit too far.

[17:28] Susan Blackwell: In his pursuit to own a home, he lost relationships.

[17:33] Laura Camien: People thought he was crazy, but in the end, was it worth it?

[17:39] Susan Blackwell: So, Suze, I tell you, your job as I tell you this story is to simply stop me when our hero goes too far.

[17:48] Laura Camien: All right.

[17:48] Susan Blackwell: If and when he does something that you wouldn't do, you can stop and say, now that's a bit too far.

[17:55] Laura Camien: Good.

[17:55] Susan Blackwell: So I'm gonna stop you when he does something I would not do.

[18:00] Laura Camien: That's right.

[18:01] Susan Blackwell: Okay, here we go.

[18:03] Laura Camien: This is a good game.

[18:04] Susan Blackwell: Okay, here we go.

[18:05] Susan Blackwell: Again, all of this is from an article written by Robert Colker.

[18:09] Laura Camien: I'm gonna paraphrase and tell you in my own words.

[18:12] Susan Blackwell: And honestly, I'm probably gonna embellish a little bit and take my own wonderings a little further than Robert Colker did, but I will try to tell you when I'm departing from the story that he wrote.

[18:21] Laura Camien: And also let's invite listeners, listeners when when our protagonist does something that you would not do.

[18:29] Susan Blackwell: Maybe just scream real loud wherever you're at.

[18:32] Laura Camien: Are you at the laundromat?

[18:33] Susan Blackwell: Scream real loud.

[18:34] Laura Camien: Scream real loud.

[18:35] Susan Blackwell: Driving down the highway, scream real loud.

[18:36] Laura Camien: Are you sitting next to a loved one?

[18:38] Susan Blackwell: Maybe you're in your grandma's hospital room.

[18:41] Laura Camien: Just scream, scream real loud.

[18:44] Susan Blackwell: Okay, our story begins sometime in 2001.

[18:50] Laura Camien: Our hero's name is David Kirchner.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: Ah, would have never just kidding, keep going.

[18:56] Laura Camien: Susan.

[18:58] Susan Blackwell: I'm just gonna call him David throughout.

[19:00] Laura Camien: He is a 32-year-old film editor, or was at the time.

[19:05] Susan Blackwell: He had moved with his girlfriend Courtney to Park Slope, Brooklyn, just a few years earlier.

[19:12] Laura Camien: They were living in a neighborhood that they loved but could not afford to buy in, which is true for oh so many New Yorkers who can't relate.

[19:22] Susan Blackwell: So they lived on Fifth Avenue in Brooklyn in a three-story brick building.

[19:28] Laura Camien: It wasn't a particularly pleasing from the outside.

[19:32] Susan Blackwell: It wasn't like a cute brownstone or anything.

[19:34] Laura Camien: It was just one of those simple three-story buildings.

[19:37] Susan Blackwell: There's entire blocks of them in Brooklyn, where there's like a storefront on the ground floor and then two apartments above the store.

[19:45] Laura Camien: And they had the whole thing.

[19:47] Susan Blackwell: No, they were living in one apartment in one of those buildings.

[19:51] Laura Camien: Got it, got it, got it.

[19:52] Susan Blackwell: Next door to the building that they lived in was another building, nearly identical to their building.

[19:59] Laura Camien: But that building was boarded up.

[20:01] Susan Blackwell: The front door was covered in graffiti, the building looked abandoned.

[20:07] Laura Camien: And every day, David would walk by that building and wonder, what if he wondered who owned that building?

[20:17] Susan Blackwell: Where were they?

[20:19] Laura Camien: What were their plans for that building?

[20:21] Susan Blackwell: And David would sit next door in an apartment that he couldn't even afford to buy.

[20:27] Laura Camien: And yet he began to fantasize about owning that building, the entire building next door.

[20:37] Susan Blackwell: He would spend hours on end dreaming about how he would fix it up.

[20:43] Laura Camien: Since the floor plan was very likely similar to the building he was currently in.

[20:48] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[20:48] Laura Camien: He made floor plans in his head, how he'd build a chef's kitchen, a bathroom with a hot tub, all of it.

[20:57] Susan Blackwell: He could even see the backyard from his bedroom window.

[21:01] Laura Camien: So he had dreams of how he would build out that space, you know, room to entertain, enjoy his own private patch of greenery in the city.

[21:10] Susan Blackwell: He dreamt of how he could live personally in one of the apartments, rent the other, and rent the storefront so he could just kick back, living the landlord life, bringing in money to pay his mortgage while enjoying living in his custom built home, designed to his specifications and all of it owned by him.

[21:34] Laura Camien: This fantasy was fed even further by the development of the neighborhood at the time.

[21:40] Susan Blackwell: In 2003, Fifth Avenue in Brooklyn was changing.

[21:44] Laura Camien: There was a renaissance of sorts going on, and it was progressing closer and closer to his street.

[21:51] Susan Blackwell: Property values were going up, and to top it off, there were rumors that Bruce Ratner wanted to build an arena for the Brooklyn Nets in the area.

[22:01] Laura Camien: Things were only going to go up from here.

[22:04] Susan Blackwell: If only David could get in on that action before it was too late for him to even ever dream of owning property in the neighborhood.

[22:13] Laura Camien: Fun fact, indeed, they eventually did build the Barclay Center for the Brooklyn Nets, which transformed the area to say the least.

[22:21] Susan Blackwell: So all of this fantasizing was well and good, but the reality was David had $20,000 in the bank.

[22:21] Laura Camien: $20,000.

[22:30] Susan Blackwell: That's not enough.

[22:31] Laura Camien: In 2003, that might have been enough for a 10% deposit on a studio that cost 200,000.

[22:43] Susan Blackwell: Maybe.

[22:46] Laura Camien: But it certainly wasn't going to get him into a three-story multi-use commercial building in Brooklyn.

[22:53] Susan Blackwell: To add to the challenge, David was a film editor who worked freelance from job to job.

[22:58] Laura Camien: So he wasn't gonna better.

[23:00] Susan Blackwell: We'll need that W2, baby.

[23:03] Laura Camien: Not going to get approved for a big mortgage.

[23:05] Susan Blackwell: His girlfriend Courtney was going back to school.

[23:08] Laura Camien: So it seemed incredibly unlikely that David could get into this building.

[23:14] Susan Blackwell: And to be honest, most people in his life told him, you probably should set your sights on something a bit more realistic.

[23:23] Laura Camien: But every day, David would wonder, why is this building just sitting empty?

[23:30] Susan Blackwell: Why would the owners just give up this building?

[23:34] Laura Camien: He started to quietly inquire with other neighbors.

[23:39] Susan Blackwell: And he learned that no one had really seen Jose or Pauline, the older couple who owned the building, for at least three years.

[23:49] Laura Camien: Like no sign of them.

[23:52] Susan Blackwell: Now, an interesting thing to note is that around this time, like after 9 11, there were certainly abandoned buildings and frankly abandoned apartments.

[24:03] Laura Camien: There were people missing, as we know.

[24:06] Susan Blackwell: Oh, sure.

[24:07] Laura Camien: But again, it had been three years since anyone had seen him.

[24:13] Susan Blackwell: So it was nothing to do with 9 11.

[24:16] Laura Camien: Where my mind goes, either it's something, and this is all the true crime I listen to, like it's either something like very sinister or in our neighborhood on Cornelia Street.

[24:29] Susan Blackwell: Uh so I for like 20 years lived on one of the greatest streets in New York City, Cornelia Street.

[24:35] Laura Camien: Which where, by the way, if you are a fan of Zillow Gone Wild, they just posted Taylor Swift's apartment on Cornelia Street that is like for rent.

[24:44] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[24:45] Laura Camien: That was right across the street from so I lived there the whole time they were renovating that uh home, which included them digging out like the sub-sub basement to put in an indoor pool.

[25:00] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[25:00] Laura Camien: So what I was there through all of the big amazing, like what do they call those, those big shipping containers where they take refuse away from all of that.

[25:10] Susan Blackwell: But wow.

[25:11] Laura Camien: So there was Taylor Swift's, what we'll call Taylor Swift's place.

[25:15] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[25:15] Laura Camien: Then the Cornelia Street Cafe.

[25:18] Susan Blackwell: There was a restaurant called Babo, and and that was Mario Batali's restaurant.

[25:22] Laura Camien: And nestled right in there, there was a little one-story building.

[25:27] Susan Blackwell: It wasn't a carriage house because it wasn't back behind the other buildings.

[25:32] Laura Camien: It had frontage right on Cornelia Street.

[25:35] Susan Blackwell: But the entrance looked like a carriage house, right?

[25:38] Laura Camien: Didn't it have one of those doors like the entrance, it was a little more nondescript.

[25:42] Susan Blackwell: Like the building that Taylor Swift rented for a time was a beautiful old firehouse, I think, where it had big arches where the the carriages or the vehicles could come in and out.

[25:55] Laura Camien: Um I think it had a that building had a parking space.

[25:58] Susan Blackwell: This was a much more modest brick building, but it sat empty the entire time that I lived on Cornelia Street.

[26:06] Laura Camien: So for decades.

[26:07] Susan Blackwell: Oh and we would ask people who had lived in the neighborhood longer than we had, like what is going on?

[26:13] Laura Camien: And there was a uh when I lived in Inwood, next to our building, there was a beautiful big, grassy vacant lot.

[26:21] Susan Blackwell: Oh, a vacant lot in Manhattan.

[26:24] Laura Camien: And we would be like, Hey, what's the story with that?

[26:27] Susan Blackwell: And I remember the real estate agent saying the woman that owns that just she doesn't want to mess with selling it.

[26:33] Laura Camien: And I was just like, What kind of deep pockets must you have to have Manhattan real estate and just selling it would be an inconvenience?

[26:44] Susan Blackwell: But I think with that little place on Cornelia Street.

[26:46] Laura Camien: Yeah, what was that?

[26:47] Susan Blackwell: It was pretty entangled.

[26:49] Laura Camien: And I got the feeling that place is not to be touched.

[26:53] Susan Blackwell: Like, like it was too nefarious and entangled.

[26:57] Laura Camien: And I was like, Oh, if nobody can make that real estate transaction work on a Cornelia Street, like it's a hot mess.

[27:07] Susan Blackwell: How sad is that that it's just gonna sit there empty because of whatever that can't be untangled.

[27:14] Laura Camien: I know, but this is giving me that feeling vibes, right?

[27:18] Susan Blackwell: Those vibes.

[27:19] Laura Camien: All right.

[27:19] Susan Blackwell: So so far, you're right, you're right there with David.

[27:22] Laura Camien: You're like, Yeah, I would do the same thing.

[27:24] Susan Blackwell: I would start to inquire with neighbors, right?

[27:26] Laura Camien: So David starts asking his neighbors and people, just subtly, and there were some rumors that maybe Jose and Pauline had moved back to Spain, but nobody really knew for sure.

[27:38] Susan Blackwell: Not only that, David learned that there were other people in the neighborhood who had approached Jose and Pauline about maybe buying the building.

[27:47] Laura Camien: Oh no, your household, we call that another rooster in the hen house.

[27:53] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[27:54] Laura Camien: So he learned there were some other roosters in the hen house, but apparently at the last minute, supposedly, Pauline had demanded more money, so the deal didn't go through, things like that.

[28:07] Laura Camien: Just some sort of stories that he started to hear, and then the couple vanished.

[28:13] Susan Blackwell: Now, most of the neighbors agreed that the city would most likely get around to foreclosing on the building and then it would be auctioned.

[28:22] Laura Camien: And at auction, bidding would likely start at around half a million dollars.

[28:27] Susan Blackwell: So 500,000 and would go up from there depending on how much interest there was.

[28:33] Laura Camien: So that number still was not going to be low enough for David, even if he got it at the starting price and no one bid it up, it was still way out of his range.

[28:44] Susan Blackwell: Say the number one more time.

[28:46] Laura Camien: 500K.

[28:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, no.

[28:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:49] Susan Blackwell: We'd probably start at half a mil and then go up from there.

[28:52] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah, of course.

[28:54] Susan Blackwell: David needed the building to be a steal.

[28:57] Laura Camien: In his head, he made up a story that it would be possible to track down Jose and Pauline. And what if, you know, maybe they're highly motivated, like, like desperate to sell. Maybe he could make them a really low ball offer and they would go for it. And also, maybe I always have those fantasies like maybe if they just like David's like, if they just really like me and they want the best for this entrepreneurial young man, they'll they'll practically give it to me.

[29:28] Susan Blackwell: Just you wait, Seuss.

[29:29] Laura Camien: Just David, no, David, no.

[29:33] Susan Blackwell: So this dream was so unlikely and frankly, somewhat delusional, that it seems like his girlfriend Courtney began to doubt that David was living in reality.

[29:46] Laura Camien: That is not how it was worded in the article, but it felt implied to me.

[29:50] Susan Blackwell: What the article said was, and I quote, Courtney started worrying that he wasn't ready to think about having a normal future. Why couldn't he walk into one of the neighborhoods, dozens of real estate offices and find a place that was actually for sale or one that he could actually afford?

[30:11] Laura Camien: So despite the tension with his girlfriend, David began to do more research and recon on the building.

[30:18] Susan Blackwell: He went to the Kings County Courthouse and looked into the building.

[30:23] Laura Camien: Turns out the city had not scheduled an auction for the building yet, which was good.

[30:29] Susan Blackwell: But Jose and Pauline owed a few hundred thousand dollars in back taxes.

[30:34] Laura Camien: Oh.

[30:35] Susan Blackwell: So it felt like only a matter of time before the city would want to auction it and make back some of their owed taxes.

[30:44] Laura Camien: Oh yeah.

[30:45] Susan Blackwell: But until an auction date was set, the owners on the deed still have possession, which means Pauline and Jose could still sell the building. And since the building was worth much more than they owed, they could pay back the city, clear their debts, and still come out ahead.

[31:03] Laura Camien: David started to feel like maybe, maybe I have a chance. In looking up the records, now he had last names.

[31:14] Susan Blackwell: Before this, he only knew Jose and Pauline. Now he knew the building was owned by Jose Barrero and Pauline Dean.

[31:23] Laura Camien: This was a thrilling development. David was beginning to go deep in his investigation.

[31:30] Susan Blackwell: He got on the internet, he searched the phone listings in Spain to see if he might track them down and talk to them.

[31:37] Laura Camien: But it turns out to find someone in Spain, you need a second surname. You need the matrilineal name on the mother's side, the third name, those names don't appear on any of the paperwork in the courthouse.

[31:54] Susan Blackwell: So David hits a dead end.

[31:57] Laura Camien: Wait a second. I just have to say, ah, because I don't think I'd have it in me to even go to the courthouse.

[32:04] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[32:04] Laura Camien: You already are out.

[32:05] Susan Blackwell: Like I don't think.

[32:06] Laura Camien: I have admired friends who have done things like this where they uh there's there's somebody that I know and love and admire greatly who is really good with their money.

[32:18] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[32:19] Laura Camien: They're really, really good with their money. And they figured out that a piece of land that was adjacent to a piece of land that they owned was going to come up for sale at a really, really deep discount if they moved quickly, if they could pay cash, blubby blah. And the amount of research and preparedness that they had in place to like strike when the iron was hot and to even know that that was that there was a piece of land next to them and figure out like how it would be for sale and where to go to find out about. I was like, you are 17 paces ahead of me. And so at this juncture, I would say I probably couldn't have gotten my shit together to get down to King's Courthouse. But I'd like to tip my tiny invisible hat to David for his investigative efforts.

[33:13] Susan Blackwell: He was on it and he was going these very legal routes.

[33:16] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[33:17] Susan Blackwell: You can go to the courthouse.

[33:18] Laura Camien: Foreshadowing came in.

[33:22] Susan Blackwell: So you can do that. And that's all on the up and up. You can go and look those things up. And he did, but now he has hit a dead end because he does not have their third surname.

[33:34] Laura Camien: The matrilineal name.

[33:36] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[33:37] Laura Camien: Mm-hmm.

[33:37] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. But now that David had inquired about the building at the courthouse, he worried that he might have called attention to the building and to the unpaid taxes and was hoping and praying that he himself had not expedited the auction process.

[33:52] Laura Camien: But here's the thing that is the thinking of somebody who has a real B in their bonnet to the point of being obsessive that they're worried that their comings and goings are going to flat. You know what I mean?

[34:03] Susan Blackwell: Like I do, but it's not unheard of. Like to myself accidentally on the phone with Con Edison or something. And they're like, oh, look at that. You had an account here. I'm like, damn it.

[34:16] Laura Camien: That's not I get it. Like I've also, when I've wanted to be specific, like a piece of real estate. And I'm just like, I'm not talking about this. I'm not, because I don't want any other interests to get peaked.

[34:29] Susan Blackwell: So listen. So he what he unearthed was 200,000 worth of unpaid back taxes, which I'm sure the city's gonna want. That's not insignificant. And he knew that other people wanted the building, and his asking questions only got them thinking about the building again.

[34:46] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[34:46] Susan Blackwell: And it was adamant that if he did not find Jose and Pauline, this deal was gonna slip through his fingers.

[34:54] Laura Camien: Somebody else is gonna find them somehow.

[34:56] Susan Blackwell: It's yes, yes, yes. But what deal exactly? We're talking about a fantasy deal that he had made up in his mind.

[35:04] Laura Camien: That deal, the fantasy deal would slip through his fingers.

[35:07] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[35:08] Laura Camien: There is no deal.

[35:09] Susan Blackwell: But nonetheless, we're not gonna get stuck in the fact that there is no deal. By this time, it's January 2003. A few years has gone by of this, and it was just after the new year that Courtney, David's girlfriend, moved out.

[35:26] Laura Camien: Oh, Courtney.

[35:27] Susan Blackwell: She had had enough of this.

[35:29] Laura Camien: Oh baby, sweet baby. Listen, the article did not give a lot of detail, but enough for my mind to fill in the blanks. The article said simply that Courtney said they'd grown apart.

[35:41] Susan Blackwell: But it is so clear that Courtney was like, and I'm out. This is just your obsession with this has gone too far.

[35:48] Laura Camien: I'm sure there were other things, but yes.

[35:51] Susan Blackwell: No, in my version of this story, it was this and only this, Susan.

[35:55] Laura Camien: Just the obsession.

[35:56] Susan Blackwell: The obsession with the building next door. This is a great story. I'm with you. I'll buy that.

[36:01] Laura Camien: And also I would say potentially his detachment from reality.

[36:05] Susan Blackwell: Because you're like I said, you're worrying about a deal that only exists in your mind.

[36:09] Laura Camien: But it's like the promise of a deal.

[36:11] Susan Blackwell: It's the possibility.

[36:14] Laura Camien: It's the possibility.

[36:15] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[36:16] Laura Camien: So according to the article, when Courtney moved out, David was quote, crestfallen. But he was also now free to pursue the building without anyone questioning his sanity.

[36:28] Susan Blackwell: So the very next day after Courtney moved out, David did something he had wanted to do for months.

[36:37] Laura Camien: Did he build a murder wall of like all the connections between?

[36:41] Susan Blackwell: No, Suze. He broke into the building.

[36:43] Laura Camien: He broke into the building.

[36:45] Susan Blackwell: He broke into the building.

[36:47] Laura Camien: He climbed up his fire escape on his building, leapt over on the roof to the building next door. There was a hatch, which was secured by these pretty simple pins, and he shimmied it open without much effort at all, frankly. With Courtney gone, he was untethered.

[38:03] Laura Camien: Yes. Right. Oh my god, thank you.

[38:03] Susan Blackwell: He was unlike I'm free to do this now.

[38:05] Susan Blackwell: You had me at steak knife.

[38:07] Laura Camien: You had me at like lowering himself down into a dark, yeah.

[38:07] Laura Camien: So here we go.

[38:07] Susan Blackwell: Here we go.

[38:07] Laura Camien: He thought about jumping down into the space immediately, but then he worried, what if I break a leg? If I starve to death in this building and no one ever finds me. So he goes back to his place. He called his friend Fabian.

[38:07] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[38:12] Laura Camien: And guess what? When he gets inside the building, it's so eerie.

[38:19] Susan Blackwell: It's like Pompeii.

[38:21] Laura Camien: It was frozen in time.

[38:21] Susan Blackwell: You want to remember Fabian, because Fabian plays a role in all of this.

[38:25] Susan Blackwell: The top two floors were under construction in the midst of being framed out. But according to the article, it looked like a construction site where the workers had just left for the day and never returned.

[38:25] Laura Camien: Oh, Fabian, don't do it. What if don't bring the ladder? Don't do whatever you're about to do, Fabian.

[38:25] Susan Blackwell: Fabian, wait till you hear what Fabian does. So Fabian, who he was gonna go have dinner with that night, he told him, Hey, if I don't show up for any reason tonight, come look for me in the building next door. He grabbed a flashlight and a steak knife because you know there could be squatters or drug dealers or whatever. So and down through the hatch.

[38:25] Laura Camien: Can I just say when you talk about wanting to have made a screenplay out of this? This is quality.

[38:25] Susan Blackwell: Yes, right?

[38:38] Laura Camien: And then he made his way all the way down to the ground floor, which was completely unrenovated. Piles of dust, like thick, thick dust covered literally everything.

[38:51] Susan Blackwell: There's gonna be a real good jump scare in the sequence.

[38:54] Laura Camien: No, I promise.

[38:54] Susan Blackwell: No, no, it could in the film.

[38:56] Laura Camien: Oh, in the film.

[38:57] Susan Blackwell: It can be a cat, it can be a rat, but a rat.

[39:00] Laura Camien: It's gotta be a rat.

[39:01] Susan Blackwell: A paint can clatters to the floor.

[39:04] Laura Camien: Yes.

[39:05] Susan Blackwell: By the front door, there was a pile of envelopes beneath the mail slot, like tons of mail that had come in completely untouched.

[39:14] Laura Camien: There's gonna be a lot of information of that mail.

[39:16] Susan Blackwell: Well, we're not breaking that law just yet.

[39:19] Laura Camien: We're breaking one law at a time.

[39:23] Susan Blackwell: So, from what he could tell, Pauline and Jose had been living on the ground floor while attempting to renovate upstairs. They did not live really well.

[39:34] Laura Camien: Uh he saw like makeshift racks for their clothes, a tiny kitchen, a living space with a day bed.

[39:41] Susan Blackwell: I can picture it. He described the mattress as so worn that you could see the body-shaped imprint on it.

[39:48] Laura Camien: I have chills.

[39:50] Susan Blackwell: Eerie and untouched, dusty.

[39:54] Laura Camien: So he leaves through the roof hatch. Again, being careful not to be seen by anyone. I'm reminded of a spark that you did previously about self-reliance and the ability to pull one's body weight up through a window hatch.

[40:09] Susan Blackwell: I know. Very impressive.

[40:11] Laura Camien: Very impressive.

[40:12] Susan Blackwell: Although it was a construction site, he might have found a ladder.

[40:15] Laura Camien: Or he has killer abs. Get it, David.

[40:18] Susan Blackwell: Hey, David. Listen, that night, David told his friend Fabian all about it.

[40:25] Laura Camien: And of course, Fabian was like, you're fucking crazy.

[40:29] Susan Blackwell: Like completely crazy.

[40:32] Laura Camien: But also, please keep me posted because this is fascinating.

[40:36] Susan Blackwell: Who's gonna play baby?

[40:38] Laura Camien: Who's gonna play David?

[40:39] Susan Blackwell: Who's gonna get Courtney?

[40:41] Laura Camien: Who's gonna book that one?

[40:43] Susan Blackwell: Well, we'll see. I need to tell you more, and then we'll cast after that.

[40:47] Laura Camien: So our man David started to go into the building almost every single day after that.

[40:53] Susan Blackwell: He found keys to the building in a bowl in the kitchen.

[40:57] Laura Camien: And he eventually worked up the nerve to start going in and out through the montage, montage.

[41:02] Susan Blackwell: Can you imagine?

[41:04] Laura Camien: Montage.

[41:05] Susan Blackwell: But he said, in a way, I now have possession of the building.

[41:10] Laura Camien: Squatters rights.

[41:11] Susan Blackwell: And you know what they say. Possession is nine-tenths of the law.

[41:15] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[41:16] Susan Blackwell: So, as exciting as all of this was, it felt like a development, but no, the clock is still ticking.

[41:22] Laura Camien: Any day now, the city could announce the auction date.

[41:25] Susan Blackwell: He wasn't any closer to finding Jose and Pauline.

[41:29] Laura Camien: So he really needs to double down here.

[41:32] Susan Blackwell: He decides he's already broken one or two laws. What's another one really?

[41:36] Laura Camien: So he decides to open and read all the mail that has piled up at the building.

[41:43] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[41:45] Laura Camien: He sifted through takeout menus, of course.

[41:48] Susan Blackwell: He found a warning letter from a city marshal.

[41:51] Laura Camien: He found several letters from agencies that warned about foreclosure and offered cash for the building.

[41:56] Susan Blackwell: And get this, competitors is what David called them. He also found notes from neighbors making similar offers. And this is a direct quote from the article. David says, It was ironic now. Now I have this kind of disgust for that whole approach, shark circling a wounded seal or something, but I'm on the inside, kind of snickering. These people were idiots. You've got to get in the building. Oh my God, he's unhinged. He's unhinged. So he has disrespect or you know, like sort of this ill will towards people that slid a note through the mail slot saying, listen, I'd like to buy your building. If they were interested in selling, I would be available. Yeah. He has, he's got he's thinking suckers. He's throwing shade at that.

Just get inside the building. He's nuts. Right now, at this point in the article, I'm thinking Courtney probably made the right move. Just spacing my information on this article. I also like visualizing how the filmmaker who gets this film made is going to represent the undoing of his sanity. I think there's like you could do it a number of ways. Like you could we'll get we'll get we could talk about this later or right now. Let's stop and talk about it. Like you could do it as a film of like becoming unhinged and this man who loses his shit. Yeah, you could do it as like a rom-com and a sweet home Alabama, a guy with if you give him a strong enough need for a home, you can justify so much of what he does because like he's driven by this need to create a home. You could do this in a number of ways. Pick your genre, pick your genre.

[43:40] Laura Camien: Listen, David continues his quest in the kitchen trash. He found a significant clue, a 1998 wall calendar that covered the last six months of Pauline and Jose's life in New York. Susan, it had doctor's appointments, including doctors' names and phone numbers on the calendar. David, relentless, called all the doctors and continued to pester them. He would say things like, I'm a concerned neighbor. I'm worried. I just I'm just worried something might have happened to them. Was he trying to figure out if what the malady was or like he was trying to get just any information he could? He's got to find them. He has to find them. What a creep. Finally, someone in one doctor's office relented. This I can't believe.

I'm like, this person. Oh God. This person told David that Pauline had indeed been ill with breast cancer that had metastasized to her brain. Why the fuck? In 1998, apparently this person told David that they told Pauline she did not have long to live. I cannot believe somebody at some person at a doctor's office provided that information. It's so in-depth and it's so personal.

[45:09] Susan Blackwell: I can't either. It's so personal. It's so that has got to violate HIPAA. Come on. I mean, and just rack up the violations. Also, around this time, I'm starting to wonder, David, you let someone write all of this down and publish it in a magazine. Like this isn't great. But even that quote that you just read from David, I'm like, David can't hear David rationally. Like he's he's maybe, but they talked to like the interview with David about this is after all of this has transpired. It's not while he's in the midst of it. That's telling too. That's telling too that he David plays by David's rules. Yes, he does. He's he's a somebody who thinks that the rules don't apply to him, essentially. Correct.

Yeah. Correct. Now I'm gonna speed because we're not even halfway through what David has done. So we get this information from the doctor's office. It's still not enough to point to where are they? Where's Pauline and Jose? Somehow, behind the oven, question mark. I'm like, David really left no stone unturned. Uh he I'm like, wow, you really crawled through every inch of space there. But behind the oven, David found a half-burned letter. It was from a Madrid branch of a Spanish bank called Vanesto. The letter had an account number and Pauline's second last name, which was Garcia. Fuck. Pauline Dean Garcia. The letter also showed a transfer of 125,000 into this account just a few months before Jose and Pauline disappeared. On the calendar, September 3rd, 1998, in someone's handwriting, it says flight 904 to Spain, and then nothing else.

[47:14] Laura Camien: David, of course, had no other choice but to call the bank. This teller, I have to say, seemed to have more integrity than the doctor's office because they would not share any information about Pauline. So here we are, another dead end. David continued to make his way through the apartment looking for anything that might point him in the right direction. Buried under a pile of newspapers in a back bedroom. It was sort of shaped like a deformed rabbit. It was kind of a circle with two sort of rabbit ears. I'm nervous. There was a kind of postcard image attached to it, and it was an aerial view of a little village nestled in a green valley. David thought the deformed rabbit must be like a souvenir of some kind.

On a sticker on this souvenir were the words Pola de Alande. And according to the article, it made David think about the end of the Sha Shank Redemption when Morgan Freeman's view of the postcards beach scene becomes an actual view of the beach. Spoilers, Laura. Jeez. Listen, if you haven't seen the Shawshank Redemption, go check it out. And shame on you.

[48:54] Susan Blackwell: That's right, and shame on you. So David sees this. He thinks of the Sha Shank Redemption, and he is like, this is where they went. This is where they went. So he does some research on where Pola de Alande is. It's in an area of Spain called Asturias, west of Basque Country. It's an incredibly remote part of the country, apparently so remote, according to the article. It was one of the only parts of Spain not invaded by the Moors. So David tells his friend Fabian what he found. And you will never believe, Susan, what Fabian said. You should go there. Better. Fabian said, Dave, you've got to be kidding me. That's where my family is from. God, what? This are the eyes. This story is crazy, Laura.

The story is crazy. Who's writing the screenplay right now? Let's get it done. You can really see how David has cast himself in his mind as the hero of this film. And this is a quest. It's a it's a passionate quest at this point. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a really great example of this is going to really help the actor who plays this part. I keep seeing Brad Pitt, but I think Brad Pitt's I a young Brad Pitt is what I see.

[50:17] Laura Camien: A young Brad Pitt is what you see. Yeah, because he was only David was only 32 when all this happened. Exactly. But but you can see how that he, David, really believed, and the actor will really believe they are like doing God's work. Like they are the hero of the story. And when you get little signs like this, you're just like, it's destiny. Oh, yes. Magical thinking, like all of it. It's it's so this is good. Please keep it. All right. So sure enough, Pola de Alande is 44 miles from the town of Pravia where Fabian's grandmother was born. They hatch a plan. They will go there. They will find Jose and Pauline. They booked two plane tickets to Madrid. Fabian is going to meet family he's never met before, and he will serve as an interpreter for David.

But before they go, remember the bank teller? The one I thought had integrity? Ah. David finally wore them down. And that bank teller told him that Pauline's account was closed. The bank teller gave David an old address.

[51:31] Susan Blackwell: Jeez! Give out the address. Gave out the address from a town called Ovido. According to the article, using a reverse directory on the web, David found six phone numbers at that address. He called each number one by one, using Fabian as an interpreter. They would ask, did anybody know an old man with a mustache and a pork pie hat who had a sick wife? One person remembered. Oh my god. That person said, Oh, yeah, I know them. They used to go downstairs to Manolo's Tapas Bar every single day. So David and Fabian called Manolo's Tapas Bar. And guess what? Manolo knew them. Oh my God. But Manolo told them sadly, Pauline had died two years ago. And at that point, Jose went back to his hometown. Pola de Alande.

And Manolo even knew Jose's second matrilineal last name. It was Alvarez. So now we have David with Jose's full name, Jose Barrero Alvarez. He looks on the Spanish internet, the white pages, he gets two names. The first one they reached was Jose's nephew. I'm really sorry.

[53:06] Laura Camien: Jose's nephew told Baby and over the phone. Oh no. Oh no. Six weeks ago. Just six weeks ago, David had broken into the building for the first time. It was sad to me at this point in the article, Suze. I was sad that he would not ever get to talk to Jose or Pauline, the two people he had been searching for, learning all that he could about. I just I just felt sad about that. I'm having a different feeling than sad right now. I'm I'm getting nervous. I'm getting nervous. Well, good David's next turn. We'll keep you there. So David was then put in touch with a niece named Isabel, who had taken care of Pauline and Jose before they died. In her will, Pauline had specified that the money that she made from the sale of another building they owned should go to Isabel.

But it didn't say anything about the building on Fifth Avenue. Oh no. Not one word. In fact, Isabel, she was aware of that building, and she said when they spoke of that building, they said, give it back to the city. Just give it back to the city. But once Pauline died, technically, Jose owned the building, and he didn't have a will. So therefore, the building would go to his siblings. Jose had two brothers and five sisters. Oh. They would all need to agree about what to do with the building. No. They were all in their 70s and 80s. Six of them lived in the area. One of them lived in Barcelona. David now needed to negotiate with seven different people navigating a foreign country, a foreign language, two sets of real estate, and inheritance laws.

Uh-uh. Uh uh. Oh, do you think is that when you would back off? Is that the point you would be like, you know what? This is too much. I couldn't find the address for the Kings County Courthouse. So not our fearless David. He has come too far to back down now. He decides to cancel his trip to Spain. He did not want to give them the impression that he was some wealthy American throwing his money around. He thought that they would just see him potentially as someone who had vast resources. And that they would be like, well, then pay us more for the building. So again, the situation was that the city could auction or announce an auction at any time. He could use that as a bargaining tool with the family.

[55:57] Susan Blackwell: Because if the building went into foreclosure, they would make zero money.

[56:01] Laura Camien: So what he realized he had to do is make an offer that would make it easy for them.

[56:09] Susan Blackwell: He would deal with all the bureaucratic baloney.

[56:13] Laura Camien: He would cover any unseen tax and land transfer issues, et cetera.

[56:17] Susan Blackwell: If he could just offer it to them so that they did not have to lift a finger, maybe he had a shot.

[56:25] Laura Camien: He's got $20,000.

[56:28] Susan Blackwell: Easy is cash.

[56:29] Laura Camien: Easy is no mortgage, no financing, easy as cash.

[56:33] Susan Blackwell: Yes, but easy to them.

[56:36] Laura Camien: They didn't have to do if he could make it easy on them.

[56:40] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, but still, yeah.

[56:41] Laura Camien: Okay.

[56:43] Susan Blackwell: So here's what here's what he his new plan, plan C or plan D, I don't know.

[56:49] Laura Camien: So he makes a low ball offer of $290,000 for the building.

[56:55] Susan Blackwell: That's probably just a third of the value of the building, honestly.

[56:58] Laura Camien: Right.

[56:59] Susan Blackwell: But he figured since the city was owed $240,000 in taxes and liens, that would give Jose's brothers and sisters $50K to split.

[57:09] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[57:09] Susan Blackwell: David told all of this to Fabian.

[57:11] Laura Camien: Fabian told all of this to Isabel.

[57:14] Susan Blackwell: Isabel told all of this to the family.

[57:16] Laura Camien: And the family seemed responsive.

[57:20] Susan Blackwell: But how's this going to work?

[57:21] Laura Camien: You ask.

[57:22] Susan Blackwell: I hear you asking this.

[57:23] Laura Camien: He only had 20K in the bank.

[57:25] Susan Blackwell: That is true.

[57:26] Laura Camien: But David believed that he could scrape together the other 9,000 from friends and family and then get a construction loan against future rental income from the store and one of the apartments.

[57:37] Susan Blackwell: Once the building was done and reappraised at market value, he could refinance the loan, use the rental income to pay the mortgage.

[57:45] Laura Camien: And as we know, rents on Fifth Avenue were exploding.

[57:48] Susan Blackwell: So any lender would know that and want in on this deal.

[57:52] Laura Camien: Easy peasy.

[57:53] Susan Blackwell: Easy peasy.

[57:55] Laura Camien: Lemon squeezy.

[57:57] Susan Blackwell: So if you're thinking now he must really be crazy.

[58:03] Laura Camien: Well, that's what his lawyers told him.

[58:06] Susan Blackwell: So many things could go wrong, they said.

[58:09] Laura Camien: Like, what if the renovation costs spiral out of control?

[58:12] Susan Blackwell: What if the title search reveals a problem of some kind?

[58:15] Laura Camien: What if the family backs out at the last minute?

[58:17] Susan Blackwell: Like this is nuts.

[58:19] Laura Camien: Well, that is almost exactly what happened.

[58:23] Susan Blackwell: After the family agreed to the deal, about a week later, David gets a call from their lawyer in Spain.

[58:31] Laura Camien: The lawyer says, according to this article, you're not gonna believe this.

[58:35] Susan Blackwell: The offer was being declined by Maria.

[58:39] Laura Camien: Not one of the siblings, but a new person in the equation, one of the children of the siblings.

[58:46] Susan Blackwell: And Maria was coming to Brooklyn in a week to sell the place.

[58:52] Laura Camien: Maybe to David, maybe to one of the other buyers who wanted the building.

[58:56] Susan Blackwell: His greatest fears, his greatest fears.

[59:00] Laura Camien: Coming true.

[59:00] Susan Blackwell: But also, if we're doing a rom com, I smell, I smell a love interest.

[59:05] Laura Camien: Oh, interesting.

[59:06] Susan Blackwell: That's not how this story went, but you know, I I also thought Isabel, like I was like, oh.

[59:11] Laura Camien: Oh, interesting.

[59:12] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, okay.

[59:13] Laura Camien: That's okay.

[59:13] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[59:14] Laura Camien: Or Fabian, come on.

[59:15] Susan Blackwell: Or Fabian.

[59:17] Laura Camien: Or Fabian could really come through here.

[59:19] Susan Blackwell: So Maria lived and worked in Barcelona.

[59:22] Laura Camien: She'd gone to good schools.

[59:23] Susan Blackwell: The family saw her as a leader.

[59:25] Laura Camien: And Maria was suspicious.

[59:28] Susan Blackwell: She knew damn well they could do better than 290,000.

[59:32] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[59:33] Susan Blackwell: And wouldn't you do the same if you knew that your elderly family members were about to sell the farm?

[59:39] Laura Camien: Now David books a flight to Spain.

[59:41] Susan Blackwell: And this time he gets on the flight.

[59:45] Laura Camien: He had to get to the family before Maria got to that building.

[59:50] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[59:51] Laura Camien: He thought if he could show them pictures of just how run down the building was, maybe show them the old rabbit souvenir with the postcard.

[1:00:00] Susan Blackwell: Tell the story of how he tracked them down and make them believe what he believed, which is he was meant to own this building.

[1:00:10] Laura Camien: It was Kismet.

[1:00:13] Susan Blackwell: Of course, he had to do all of that without breaking a sweat.

[1:00:17] Laura Camien: He did not want them to sense desperation or panic.

[1:00:22] Susan Blackwell: So David and Fabian flew to Madrid, drove to Ovido, and then on to Polo de Adelante.

[1:00:28] Laura Camien: They met with the two brothers.

[1:00:30] Susan Blackwell: One of the brothers, the older one, stayed completely out of the conversation.

[1:00:36] Laura Camien: He stayed out of the room, actually.

[1:00:38] Susan Blackwell: They were told that he gets very upset at the very mention of Jose's name.

[1:00:43] Laura Camien: So please don't even say Jose's name around him.

[1:00:48] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[1:00:49] Laura Camien: So they went into the next room with the other brother, Constantino and his wife Valentina.

[1:00:55] Susan Blackwell: And it was very clear from the start, Valentina wore the pants.

[1:01:00] Laura Camien: She asked question after question.

[1:01:05] Susan Blackwell: Fabian, the fearless friend, translated everything.

[1:01:08] Laura Camien: She asked more questions.

[1:01:10] Susan Blackwell: She was tough, but eventually they started to laugh.

[1:01:14] Laura Camien: She gave them a tour.

[1:01:15] Susan Blackwell: They seemed to start to connect.

[1:01:18] Laura Camien: And at the end of it, when they left, Fabian was like, wow, there was a lot going on there.

[1:01:26] Susan Blackwell: But you made a good impression, they want you to buy the house.

[1:01:32] Laura Camien: But you have to go through Maria.

[1:01:36] Susan Blackwell: We're back to Maria.

[1:01:38] Laura Camien: David and Fabian drove through the night to get to her the entire time David is running the numbers in his head.

[1:01:44] Susan Blackwell: He knows Maria is going to drive the price up, but he just can't have it go up all the way to market value.

[1:01:51] Laura Camien: He has to get a deal, a steal, you might say.

[1:01:55] Susan Blackwell: And he has to make sure that no one else gets in on this.

[1:02:00] Laura Camien: When they get there, they have a long dinner with Maria, and she was tough.

[1:02:06] Susan Blackwell: She felt it was her duty to protect her family and make sure they got the best deal possible.

[1:02:12] Laura Camien: They spent a long time talking, she admitted.

[1:02:15] Susan Blackwell: Frankly, she didn't really want the hassle of starting from scratch.

[1:02:19] Laura Camien: And David visiting the family had really made a difference.

[1:02:23] Susan Blackwell: A week later, Maria and her husband visit New York.

[1:02:27] Laura Camien: They see the building, and she agrees to sell to him, but for 400,000, which is still unbelievable.

[1:02:38] Susan Blackwell: A three-story commercial building.

[1:02:41] Laura Camien: Fucking believable.

[1:02:42] Susan Blackwell: Even in 2003, 2003?

[1:02:46] Laura Camien: It's unbelievable.

[1:02:47] Susan Blackwell: Even in 2003.

[1:02:48] Laura Camien: It's worth a million.

[1:02:49] Susan Blackwell: You know, it's definitely worth a million dollars.

[1:02:52] Laura Camien: But the thing is, even though it was a good deal, as we know, David doesn't have enough to put down a deposit and get a mortgage on $400,000.

[1:03:02] Susan Blackwell: He has come so far.

[1:03:05] Laura Camien: And yet he is still so short.

[1:03:08] Susan Blackwell: Enter the real hero of this story.

[1:03:11] Laura Camien: Remember ex-girlfriend Courtney?

[1:03:13] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:03:15] Laura Camien: Courtney has another ex-boyfriend who is looking for a home.

[1:03:20] Susan Blackwell: He's a DJ.

[1:03:21] Laura Camien: He has the money, but he doesn't have the time to deal with it all.

[1:03:26] Susan Blackwell: So Courtney connects the two guys.

[1:03:29] Laura Camien: The DJ puts in the money.

[1:03:32] Susan Blackwell: David puts in his money and they co-own the building.

[1:03:37] Laura Camien: David has the top floor apartment.

[1:03:39] Susan Blackwell: The DJ has the second floor, and they split the rental money from the first floor, which at the time was a wine store, but I have since looked it up.

[1:03:47] Laura Camien: It is no longer a wine store.

[1:03:49] Susan Blackwell: It looks like a bagel shop now from Google Maps.

[1:03:52] Laura Camien: So David had to give up a little of his dream, but he went on to renovate the apartment, build out his dream space.

[1:04:01] Susan Blackwell: And in the end, in the end of this article, David told a story of a photograph of Fabian and David taken while they're on their adventure in Pula de Adelante, standing in front of windmills.

[1:04:16] Laura Camien: Apparently, a friend of theirs saw it and said, David, you're Don Quixote.

[1:04:23] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:04:24] Laura Camien: Huh.

[1:04:25] Susan Blackwell: He did have the ability to imagine something that other people couldn't.

[1:04:30] Laura Camien: Maybe everything he did was worth it, but maybe it wasn't.

[1:04:34] Susan Blackwell: At the time the article was written, David had mixed feelings.

[1:04:37] Laura Camien: He said, Well, now that he owns it, he worries about all the realities.

[1:04:42] Susan Blackwell: The noise of the buses going by, the trash cans on his block, and how everything affects his property value.

[1:04:48] Laura Camien: Turns out the fairy tale turned into reality.

[1:04:52] Susan Blackwell: And I'm not sure David liked living in the realness of it.

[1:04:56] Laura Camien: But I tried to do a follow-up, and all I could find was information on Zillow that the building was sold in 2021 for 2.3 million dollars.

[1:05:09] Susan Blackwell: Oh, David.

[1:05:11] Laura Camien: So I think it all turned out okay in the end.

[1:05:14] Susan Blackwell: And thanks to Zillow, I did get to take a peek into that apartment and imagine living there.

[1:05:21] Laura Camien: Oh MG.

[1:05:24] Susan Blackwell: Laura Camien as a lover of real estate and intrigue.

[1:05:30] Laura Camien: That story is so good.

[1:05:31] Susan Blackwell: I can see why it's been in your Sparks File forever.

[1:05:35] Laura Camien: Congratulations to Robert Culker.

[1:05:37] Susan Blackwell: Robert Calker, thank you so much for this story.

[1:05:41] Laura Camien: Great writing.

[1:05:42] Susan Blackwell: Really do read his, like, look up his.

[1:05:44] Laura Camien: Oh, we'll we'll send a link out with his article because I I said it all in my words, but he really wrote a lovely article.

[1:05:51] Susan Blackwell: Get on the Sparkfile mailing list if you want that link.

[1:05:54] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[1:05:55] Susan Blackwell: I at every turn I was like, he's about to murder someone.

[1:05:57] Laura Camien: He's about to murder someone.

[1:05:59] Susan Blackwell: Well, that's one way to tell it.

[1:06:01] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:06:01] Susan Blackwell: It's it's a real estate thriller.

[1:06:03] Laura Camien: It is a real estate thriller.

[1:06:05] Susan Blackwell: And when we think, like, what do we make of it?

[1:06:07] Laura Camien: And I, you know, we we stopped to talk about a screenplay about home.

[1:06:12] Susan Blackwell: Like you could do sort of the rom-com, the character of David falls in love with Maria, they build a home together.

[1:06:18] Laura Camien: These are the characters, not the real people who I do recognize exist, and their actual names are like in that article, which is weird.

[1:06:25] Susan Blackwell: But like right now, but it could be a thriller, like you're saying, Suze, and ideas, story ideas are everywhere, even in the real estate section of your favorite media outlet.

[1:06:38] Laura Camien: The idea of home is so top of mind for everyone right now.

[1:06:42] Susan Blackwell: Like just having been forced to stay in our homes during the pandemic.

[1:06:46] Laura Camien: I think everyone's really given a lot of thought.

[1:06:48] Susan Blackwell: And I love reading about how like there's architects who have said home design has been changed by the pandemic because priorities have changed, no more open spaces, people want doors, rooms, rooms now.

[1:07:02] Laura Camien: Let me just leave you with this because I know we are really going over.

[1:07:06] Susan Blackwell: If David's story sounds crazy, I offer you this quote from Don Quixote.

[1:07:12] Laura Camien: When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies?

[1:07:17] Susan Blackwell: Perhaps to be too practical is madness.

[1:07:20] Laura Camien: To surrender dreams, this may be madness.

[1:07:24] Susan Blackwell: Too much sanity, maybe madness.

[1:07:28] Laura Camien: And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.

[1:07:37] Susan Blackwell: Who's crazy now?

[1:07:39] Laura Camien: Laura, please send me that address so I can look it up on Zillow.

[1:07:43] Susan Blackwell: I totally will.

[1:07:45] Laura Camien: The address, you know, the address is in the article.

[1:07:47] Susan Blackwell: What's amazing is like all of this is in the article.

[1:07:50] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah, of course.

[1:07:51] Susan Blackwell: Friends, we took you over a little bit today.

[1:07:54] Laura Camien: That was so fun.

[1:07:56] Susan Blackwell: That is that's where it's at.

[1:08:00] Laura Camien: This episode of the Sparks Pile was made on the lands of the Lenape people.

[1:08:04] Susan Blackwell: And as always, we hope it put a bunch of sparks in your file.

[1:08:07] Laura Camien: And if it didn't, well, I don't know what to tell you.

[1:08:11] Susan Blackwell: If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life.

[1:08:18] Laura Camien: Email us at the sparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[1:08:25] Susan Blackwell: We will even happily take your feedback.

[1:08:27] Laura Camien: But you know the price of admission.

[1:08:28] Susan Blackwell: First, you got to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[1:08:33] Laura Camien: Follow us on social at the sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review this podcast.

[1:08:39] Susan Blackwell: It really, really, really helps other listeners to find us.

[1:08:42] Laura Camien: Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love who you know love a good story.

[1:08:48] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, we foreclose you.

[1:08:53] Laura Camien: The city is gonna sell you for tax money.

[1:08:57] Susan Blackwell: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[1:09:06] Laura Camien: It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[1:09:10] Susan Blackwell: You know, you gotta take it and make it into a real estate therilla.

[1:09:18] Laura Camien: So good.

[1:09:19] Susan Blackwell: Home baby.

[1:09:21] Laura Camien: Bye!

[1:09:21] Susan Blackwell: Bye.

[1:09:22] Laura Camien: We're not bogging into something that inspires me.

[1:09:27] Susan Blackwell: I dump it in the spark files.

[1:09:31] Laura Camien: Spark could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[1:09:37] Susan Blackwell: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[1:09:40] Laura Camien: Sparkfile.

[1:09:42] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[1:09:47] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.