This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Susan Blackwell: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Laura Camien: I pump it in my spark style. Spark!

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark slide!

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Susan Blackwell: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Laura Camien: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:52] Laura Camien: If you're an OG member of the Sparks File community, hey, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:58] Susan Blackwell: Hey, if you're joining us for the first time, hey, welcome, friend.

[1:02] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:07] Susan Blackwell: But but but you might be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:07] Laura Camien: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:16] Susan Blackwell: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:25] Laura Camien: But don't despair.

[1:26] Susan Blackwell: We're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity to light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:42] Laura Camien: Or an understanding of those sparky aha moments and how we can create the opportunity for more of them.

[1:50] Susan Blackwell: Ooh, I love this spark already.

[1:53] Laura Camien: Every episode.

[1:53] Susan Blackwell: That's the spirit, this is it.

[1:56] Laura Camien: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[2:01] Susan Blackwell: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:05] Laura Camien: That means we have more sparks, friends, than we can possibly use in this lifetime.

[2:10] Susan Blackwell: I'll say.

[2:11] Laura Camien: So if something lights you up, we encourage you to take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:16] Susan Blackwell: Without further ado, let's open up the Sparks file.

[2:21] Laura Camien: Suzy Q, I can't wait for this Sparks.

[2:25] Susan Blackwell: You know, Laura, the reason why I wanted to do this Sparks, and I think this might be a part one.

[2:25] Laura Camien: This might be a part one.

[2:32] Susan Blackwell: Because, hey, spoiler everybody, I have been so curious lately.

[2:38] Laura Camien: You and I eat, sleep, and breathe creativity.

[2:42] Susan Blackwell: And we've talked a lot about the brain.

[2:45] Laura Camien: We talk about the nervous system, but I was like, what is happening in our brains when we make stuff?

[2:53] Susan Blackwell: And I got into this spark and I kind of went down a wormhole of something very specific.

[3:01] Laura Camien: But I was like, I think that there is more learning and exploring and spelunking to do in this topic of sort of like what is happening in our bodies and in our brains when we create.

[3:13] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm so excited about this.

[3:15] Laura Camien: And also I'm wondering, are you going to make a distinction between when we begin a creative project versus when we're months into that creative project or we're about to finish it?

[3:26] Susan Blackwell: Because are there different things going on?

[3:28] Laura Camien: Yeah, I think so.

[3:29] Susan Blackwell: And my spark organically made that decision to segment it.

[3:33] Laura Camien: So Suze, do you want to jump right in?

[3:35] Susan Blackwell: Because I'm so in this already.

[3:38] Laura Camien: Well, I appreciate your enthusiasm, Susan Blackwell.

[3:41] Susan Blackwell: I feel like you're sounding you're getting better and better with each passing day.

[3:44] Laura Camien: Thank you so much.

[3:46] Susan Blackwell: I also want to say, for the record, Your Honor.

[3:49] Laura Camien: I like the way your voice sounds right now.

[3:51] Susan Blackwell: And I know that you talk about like the more excited you get, the squeakier you get.

[3:55] Laura Camien: Squeak.

[3:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[3:56] Laura Camien: But I've always loved that sort of Demi Moore, Cherry Jones, Brenda Vicaro, like when there's a little husk in a woman's voice.

[4:06] Susan Blackwell: Natasha Lyonne has it.

[4:08] Laura Camien: I've always loved that.

[4:10] Susan Blackwell: And I remember being in graduate school, and I was doing a production of As You Like It with my dear friend Miriam Lauba.

[4:18] Laura Camien: Hi, Miriam. If you're listening.

[4:20] Susan Blackwell: Hi, Miriam.

[4:20] Laura Camien: And I said to the person who was doing the speech and voice coaching on the show.

[4:26] Susan Blackwell: I was like, I would really love to have sort of like a husky Cherry Jones type.

[4:31] Laura Camien: And she was like, no.

[4:33] Susan Blackwell: Not gonna happen.

[4:34] Laura Camien: Not gonna happen.

[4:36] Susan Blackwell: Like that is something that you have it or you don't.

[4:38] Laura Camien: What you would have to do to your voice to get to that.

[4:41] Susan Blackwell: She's like, I can't condone that.

[4:43] Laura Camien: I won't, I won't do it.

[4:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm not signing off on it.

[4:46] Laura Camien: So, but I do remember I've always loved that sound.

[4:49] Susan Blackwell: I'm laughing because everybody I've been seeing like online, people teasing like Austin Butler because he just played Elvis.

[4:56] Laura Camien: Right.

[4:56] Susan Blackwell: And his voice, he's maintaining a bit of this Elvis sound.

[5:00] Laura Camien: And you know, there's some people that are like eye rolling, and then there's some people that are just like, it's awesome, keep it.

[5:06] Susan Blackwell: And he's like, look, I just I lived with this for a year.

[5:09] Laura Camien: Right.

[5:09] Susan Blackwell: I don't know what to say except that it's not just gonna go away in a second.

[5:14] Laura Camien: Because I because he really worked to kind of make it his own.

[5:19] Susan Blackwell: And so I'm thinking, you know, we'll see.

[5:22] Laura Camien: Maybe I'll keep maybe of this respiratory infection.

[5:25] Susan Blackwell: Maybe I'll keep this part.

[5:27] Laura Camien: This is your Elvis.

[5:29] Susan Blackwell: This is my Elvis, right?

[5:31] Laura Camien: In any event, let me spark you.

[5:33] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm here for it.

[5:35] Laura Camien: Thank you, Susan.

[5:36] Susan Blackwell: You're so welcome.

[5:37] Laura Camien: I'm so glad you're here.

[5:38] Susan Blackwell: Because you've been sick, and I'm glad you're back, baby.

[5:38] Laura Camien: You're back.

[5:42] Susan Blackwell: So back when I was exploring my recent Toni Morrison spark, and I was listening to The Bluest Eye talk about a voice on that one.

[5:52] Laura Camien: I read a story about this aha moment that Toni Morrison experienced while watching a young girl playing with her baby dolls.

[6:03] Susan Blackwell: And in that moment, Morrison realized that she had never read a book with a black girl as the main character.

[6:10] Laura Camien: And that was what inspired her to write that first novel, The Bluest Eye.

[6:16] Susan Blackwell: And clearly that aha moment not only transformed her career, but also helped to break down barriers in the publishing industry.

[6:24] Laura Camien: So when we make these sparks for you, for each other and for you all, there's so much that lands on the cutting room floor.

[6:32] Susan Blackwell: So here's another piece that landed on the cutting room floor.

[6:35] Laura Camien: There was this story about how Toni Morrison was struggling with a particular scene in her book, Song of Solomon.

[6:42] Susan Blackwell: And after many attempts, she just couldn't get it right until one day she was ironing her clothes and she had this aha moment.

[6:52] Laura Camien: She suddenly realized that the scene needed to be told from a different character's point of view.

[6:57] Susan Blackwell: And Morrison, because she's a great fucking writer, said the idea came to her in a kind of fluid rush, and she felt like she had swallowed light.

[7:08] Laura Camien: What?

[7:09] Susan Blackwell: After making the change, Morrison was thrilled with the results, and she said, I laughed for a whole week.

[7:15] Laura Camien: I kept looking at the pages, and every time I looked at them, I would start to laugh because it was like somebody else had written it.

[7:22] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[7:23] Laura Camien: Just gorgeous.

[7:24] Susan Blackwell: She felt like she had swallowed light.

[7:27] Laura Camien: Love that.

[7:28] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[7:29] Laura Camien: And I also love that feeling.

[7:31] Susan Blackwell: I've not felt this on the Toni Morrison level, so I don't mean to be comparing myself to her in any way, but I have had that sensation of like going back to read pages and be like, who wrote this?

[7:42] Laura Camien: I don't remember writing this.

[7:44] Susan Blackwell: And it's such a magical feeling.

[7:47] Laura Camien: I love the feeling when it's like, oh, elves cobbled it in the night.

[7:50] Susan Blackwell: Every once in a while now, and I always attribute this to a function of an aging brain, where I'll go back and I'll read something that you or I or you and I had written like a year ago.

[8:03] Laura Camien: And I'm like, oh my God, how did this come to be?

[8:06] Susan Blackwell: I bet that took a lot of time to write.

[8:08] Laura Camien: And I'm so pleased that we have this treasure trove of like talks we've given and curriculum we've written and just like all of this great material.

[8:16] Susan Blackwell: And I'm like, who wrote that?

[8:18] Laura Camien: I'm curious.

[8:19] Susan Blackwell: As I talked, I want you to be thinking about this.

[8:21] Laura Camien: I'm gonna ask you in a second.

[8:22] Susan Blackwell: Okay, if you can recall when you have experienced one of these aha moments in your creativity.

[8:29] Laura Camien: So I'm gonna give you a few more examples.

[8:31] Susan Blackwell: So when Lin-Manuel Miranda was writing the musical Hamilton, apparently he spent countless hours working on that opening number, trying to find the right words and melody to sort of capture the essence of the show.

[8:45] Laura Camien: And after months of struggling, he finally had this breakthrough moment when he wrote the line How does a bastard orphan, son of a whore, and a Scotsman dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean by Providence, impoverished in squalor, grow up to be a hero and a scholar?

[9:06] Susan Blackwell: Lin felt an incredible sense of joy and relief.

[9:10] Laura Camien: And he later described the moment as the most satisfying creative moment of his life.

[9:16] Susan Blackwell: Oh, wow.

[9:18] Laura Camien: And that is a hell of a line.

[9:20] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[9:22] Laura Camien: Internal rhymes, like it's amazing.

[9:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[9:26] Laura Camien: And sums up the whole thing.

[9:29] Susan Blackwell: Unbelievable.

[9:29] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[9:30] Susan Blackwell: In another example, in 1905, a young patent clerk in Bern, Switzerland, named Albert Einstein, was walking home from work when he had a sudden insight.

[9:41] Laura Camien: I've heard this described as if he was imagining himself like basically riding on a beam of light.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: And he described this experience of feeling like a storm broke loose in his mind and said that all of a sudden everything fell into place.

[10:00] Laura Camien: And that moment, that aha led him to develop the theory of special relativity, which fundamentally changed our understanding of space and time.

[10:10] Susan Blackwell: It also led him to develop the famous equation E equals M C squared, which relates mass and energy and has important implications for nuclear physics.

[10:20] Laura Camien: And that was just him, a young patent clerk, 1905, Bern, Switzerland, just do do do do do walking home from work.

[10:27] Susan Blackwell: So Camps, as I describe these to you, and I know you don't, it doesn't have to be like on the level of Toni Morrison or Albert Einstein, but have you ever had, even in a small way, that moment when an idea suddenly just pops into place?

[10:41] Laura Camien: Yeah, it feels like the clouds have parted.

[10:43] Susan Blackwell: Maybe you've swallowed a little light.

[10:45] Laura Camien: Yeah, I have.

[10:47] Susan Blackwell: I mean, in much smaller ways, and they're yet to be like life-defining or career defining, like some of the examples that you just gave.

[10:55] Laura Camien: But, you know, I remember in writing Echo Speaks, which Susan was in, and it's, I would say, one of the things that I've written that I've like so close to my heart.

[11:08] Susan Blackwell: But in the end, I don't know how to explain this to people who don't know the show, but in the end, this woman is she's speaking about herself in the third person.

[11:16] Laura Camien: But when it kind of came down to the truth is she's a liar, that is the whole piece in the shortest sentence in the clearest way.

[11:27] Susan Blackwell: And did it just flow out of your hands as you were?

[11:30] Laura Camien: Where were you when that came to you?

[11:32] Susan Blackwell: Do you remember?

[11:33] Laura Camien: I was writing just in a journal, and as much of that show was written just in bits and pieces in a journal.

[11:41] Susan Blackwell: And I mean, sometimes those moments happen for me when I'm asking my question, just like, what's this all about?

[11:48] Laura Camien: And I might already have a hundred pages of something, like, but what's it all about?

[11:53] Susan Blackwell: And it's this like clarity when that can come through, like it's this.

[11:58] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[11:59] Susan Blackwell: The truth is she's a liar.

[12:02] Laura Camien: And those moments are so thrilling.

[12:05] Susan Blackwell: I don't know what else to say.

[12:06] Laura Camien: I want to hear yours too.

[12:08] Susan Blackwell: I've heard you describe it as like a puzzle piece clicking into place.

[12:12] Laura Camien: When we're in our creativity groups and we're doing feedback sessions, we talk about how it's not as responders, it's not our job to suggest to the artist how they might rewrite their work.

[12:26] Susan Blackwell: It really is supporting them as they are helping them find that puzzle piece to click into place.

[12:33] Laura Camien: That something happens in their mind.

[12:35] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[12:36] Laura Camien: That helps them see their work and understand their work with more clarity.

[12:40] Susan Blackwell: That's exactly right.

[12:41] Laura Camien: That's exactly right.

[12:42] Susan Blackwell: So this moment is often called the aha moment or a breakthrough moment.

[12:48] Laura Camien: And it's an incredible feeling that artists, writers, musicians, scientists, creatives of all kinds have experienced throughout history.

[12:58] Susan Blackwell: Um, would you like to hear some more aha's from different artists?

[13:01] Laura Camien: I do, yes.

[13:03] Susan Blackwell: I had so much fun seeking these out and finding these.

[13:06] Laura Camien: And spoiler alert, if you look at the circumstances of each one, you can learn a thing or two about how to get your mind right to set the stage for aha's.

[13:19] Susan Blackwell: So Lady Gaga had been struggling with writer's block and feeling frustrated with the creative process.

[13:26] Laura Camien: And one day she was taking a break from working on the album and she had an idea.

[13:31] Susan Blackwell: In an interview with Oprah Winfrey, Lady Gaga said that she was in the shower and she suddenly heard a melody in her head.

[13:39] Laura Camien: She immediately jumped out of the shower, dripping wet, ran to the piano to record the melody before she lost it.

[13:47] Susan Blackwell: And that melody became the basis for her song, The Edge of Glory, which went on to become a huge hit.

[13:55] Laura Camien: She described this moment as one of the most amazing experiences of her life.

[14:01] Susan Blackwell: She said that she felt a rush of energy and excitement as the melody came to her.

[14:06] Laura Camien: She knew it was something special.

[14:08] Susan Blackwell: She felt like she had unlocked a part of herself that she didn't even know existed, and it filled her with a sense of joy and purpose.

[14:16] Laura Camien: Or as Toni Morrison would say, she felt like she swallowed light.

[14:20] Susan Blackwell: I mean, I just keep having this image of like learning to be a lightning rod and welcoming that light, welcoming that bolt of energy and channeling it onto the page or onto the piano or or wherever.

[14:37] Susan Blackwell: I want more of this, and I want to leave here knowing how to be even more of this lightning rod.

[14:42] Laura Camien: So there's this visual artist named Michaeline Thomas, and Michaeline does these big art pieces. She's a fine artist, and she's inspired by art history and popular culture. And she tells of this aha moment when she discovered how to incorporate rhinestones into her art, which led to her signature style of using glitter and rhinestones to add dimension and texture to her portraits.

[15:12] Susan Blackwell: And in this interview on NPR, Michaeline Thomas described the moment when she found this solution. She said, I was like, oh my God, this is it. This is the missing piece. This is the thing that I was looking for. Oh, I love that. Like straight up puzzle piece. Paul McCartney woke up with a melody in his head and assumed it was a song that he had heard before. And after realizing it was new, he immediately wrote down the lyrics and music for "Yesterday," which is now considered to be one of the greatest songs of all time. Unbelievable.

[15:48] Laura Camien: I've always wondered like how musicians do it. Like I would question myself, have I heard this before? Is that why it's coming to me?

[15:56] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, exactly. Lizzo. Sparks are everywhere, people. Lizzo experienced a creative breakthrough while working on her hit song "Truth Hurts." She had been struggling to come up with the perfect lyrics for the chorus, had written, rewritten several versions that didn't feel right. One day, taking a break from the songwriting process, stepping away, scrolling through social media, came across a meme that said, I just took a DNA test. Turns out I'm a hundred percent that bitch. And immediately she knew it was the missing piece of her chorus.

[16:33] Laura Camien: It right there. In an interview with Rolling Stone, Lizzo described the moment as a spiritual awakening. Oh my gosh. And said that she felt a rush of energy and excitement when she realized that she had finally found the right words for the song. She quickly recorded the new version of the chorus, and the rest is history. "Truth Hurts" went on to become one of the biggest hits of the year, earning Lizzo multiple Grammy nominations and catapulting her to super super super stardom. Incredible.

[17:01] Susan Blackwell: Incredible. These are world-class artists, and they know they've got to get it down. Whether you're Lady Gaga or your Lizzo or your Paul McCartney, you know things that seem like a bolt of lightning and so indelible can shimmer away if you don't get them in your Sparks file or in your computer or down in your journal.

[17:33] Laura Camien: That's right. So word to the wise. But Suze, you have not said a moment of yours when you've had that.

[17:39] Susan Blackwell: One that I thought of, and again, like you were saying, none of these are on the scale of the ones that I'm citing here. I'm using these to make a point, but if I can just share something that you had said, we do what we call a spark round, which is essentially a name game at the top of each time our creativity group meets. And I feel like it was a creative win you've experienced recently or something, but you said that you had been really rumbling and kind of struggling with this piece of the screenplay that you're writing now. And you had recently like cracked it. You had made a breakthrough with it.

[18:18] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[18:19] Susan Blackwell: And I think that that is as significant in the lives of us as creatives.

[18:26] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[18:26] Susan Blackwell: You don't have to always go on to win multiple Grammys, is all I'm saying.

[18:30] Laura Camien: Yes, and also like to that end to create one bit of work. It isn't like Lin-Manuel wrote that lyric and was like, and I'm done. This thing is perfect. Oh my God. It's like a series of those moments. A series of breakthroughs. But I say all of that to manage your expectations about what I'm about to share.

[18:53] Laura Camien: Okay, gotcha.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: So Hunter Bell and I co-wrote this piece together called "My First Time." And the prompt was they had asked us to perform at a benefit. This was years and years ago. We were asked to perform at a benefit for people with autism. And the theme was my first time. And the idea was that performers would tell stories about the first time they had been on Broadway. Hunter and I had yet to be on Broadway at that time. And so we were like, We don't have anything for you. But how we interpreted the prompt is we'll tell the stories of the first time we went to see Broadway shows.

[19:32] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[19:32] Susan Blackwell: And further, we decided that we would intertwine them. So his was "Annie," and mine was "Angels in America." So we simultaneously told the story of him as a child going to see "Annie" and me as a young adult going to see "Angels in America." So we juxtaposed those two against each other. Sometimes it was very funny, and then sometimes it was very poignant. And as we were sitting, I remember clearly, we were sitting on the very same couch where we wrote "Title of Show," and we were sitting on the brown couch. He had his back against one arm. I had my back against the other arm. And he was sort of making, we both were journaling about really indelible images from those first Broadway shows we had never seen, and the, you know, just like the impact they had made on us. And then literally in one afternoon, very quickly, that piece just like came together.

[20:33] Laura Camien: Wow.

[20:33] Susan Blackwell: And the way that I've described it is it was like an aha for me. He took his deck of cards and I took my deck of cards. And we just like a Las Vegas poker dealer just shuffled them together like brp, and it just came together. And that gives me a feeling my body just telling you. It was like an ah that's a little bit more process-y, but I remember the first time I had that feeling with Jeff Bowen. He and I were collaborating on the first thing we ever made together, sitting next to him on the piano, and I felt this it's like an energy rises up in my body, and puzzle pieces just start to fall into place, and it just goes click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. And that to me is what it feels like. Those are the moments. That's what I think keeps us going.

[21:22] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:23] Susan Blackwell: You want to hear you want to hear another one?

[21:24] Laura Camien: I want to hear more. I'm so into it.

[21:26] Susan Blackwell: Okay, let's hear from the greats. So, filmmaker James Cameron was struggling to come up with the design for the alien queen in his movie "Aliens." So he decided to take a break and go for a walk in the woods, put a star next to that. And as he was walking, he came across a log that had been split open, revealing the inside of the log. And the image of the exposed wood gave him an idea for the design of the alien queen's head. And he immediately went back to the studio to sketch out his idea.

[22:06] Laura Camien: Wow.

[22:06] Susan Blackwell: And he later described the moment as a feeling like a bolt of lightning. Yes. It was the breakthrough he needed to move forward with the project. He felt a sense of excitement and energy that fueled his creativity and allowed him to continue and complete the movie. So those are just a few examples of the incredible power of the aha moment and how it can live in the arts, in science. It could be there's an idea that comes to you for a cake that you want to bake or decorate. Like it can it can live in so many forms. But this is what is curious to me. What is happening in our brains?

[22:46] Laura Camien: Yes.

[22:47] Susan Blackwell: When we experience this sudden burst of insight. What is it?

[22:51] Laura Camien: What is it?

[22:52] Susan Blackwell: Thanks to researchers Mark Beaman and John Cunios at Northwestern University, because those fine fellows did a study on creativity and found that when people are being creative, their brains go into a special mode where they use both the right and the left sides of their brain at the same time. And these aha moments happen when people obviously they're trying to solve a problem and then suddenly they're struck with the solution. So in the study, Mark Beaman and John Cunios gave people word puzzles and monitored their brain activity with an EEG machine. So basically, they would give people three seemingly unrelated words, and the task was to come up with a fourth word that would combine with each of those three words to make a new meaningful word or phrase.

[23:43] Laura Camien: So for example, they might give people the words pine, crab, and sauce. And if you're looking for that fourth word that can connect and combine to all of them pine, pine, crab, crab, sauce, sauce, listeners, anything? Just restrict, don't just take a breath, don't concentrate too hard. Pine, crab, sauce, the answer would be apple. Because it can be combined with each of the three words to make pineapple, crab apple, and applesauce.

[24:19] Susan Blackwell: So these puzzles are called CRA tasks. CRA stands for cognitive reconstruction of associations. It is a theory that suggests that creative insights or aha moments occur when our brains make unexpected connections between previously unrelated pieces of information. And these connections occur through the reconstruction of our cognitive associations, leading to the creation of new and innovative ideas. The CRA theory is often used to explain how creativity works and how people can cultivate more creative insights.

[24:56] Laura Camien: So CRA tasks are interesting because they require people to make creative connections similar to the kind of creative thinking required in many real life situations.

[25:06] Susan Blackwell: What you might call creation through recombination, Cam.

[25:11] Laura Camien: That is a term that I have heard you use.

[25:13] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And I think that is exactly what they're talking about with these, not only with these CRA tasks, but also what's happening in Lady Gaga's mind or what's happening in Lizzo's mind. One million other people probably saw that meme. I just took a DNA test, found out I'm 100% that bitch, and we're just like, ha ha, and kept on scrolling.

[25:36] Laura Camien: Move on by.

[25:36] Susan Blackwell: They might have tapped a tapped like, but they just moved on by. But she combined it with, you know, she might have had a musical figure sampled in her computer that she had been listening to a lot. And, you know, she combined something in that moment, I think.

[25:53] Laura Camien: That's right.

[25:54] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Also, Susan, I have to stop you and ask, do you know something that I don't know about the pronunciation of lady?

[26:02] Laura Camien: No, I'm just being a fool.

[26:04] Susan Blackwell: Oh no, okay, good. I like you being a fool.

[26:06] Laura Camien: I just was like, gosh, I wonder if I've been saying it wrong all this.

[26:13] Susan Blackwell: I'm just being an idiot. There's a very old Steve Martin joke that I love about teaching babies to talk wrong. Just like a long grift where you teach babies to talk wrong. And I think it would be amazing if I just completely gaslit you.

[26:29] Laura Camien: Didn't you see it was all over the headlines that we're all saying Lady Gaga or she'll answer to Gaga?

[26:36] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God. Please keep going. Please forever and ever keep going.

[26:42] Laura Camien: So back to these CRA tasks and these connections that happen when creative thinking is occurring. By monitoring people's brain activity while they solve these puzzles, these researchers, Beeman and Cunios, were able to see how the brain processes creativity in real time.

[27:03] Susan Blackwell: And the reason why I keep poking, like as I talk to Camille and I keep poking behind my ear. It's because right back here. That's where shit's going down.

[27:12] Laura Camien: Oh amazing.

[27:13] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[27:14] Laura Camien: Is that your left side?

[27:15] Susan Blackwell: That's your right side. I forget if it's my left or my right, but I know it's something that's popping off like right behind the ear.

[27:16] Laura Camien: Right behind the ear on one of the sides.

[27:21] Susan Blackwell: On one of the sides.

[27:24] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[27:25] Susan Blackwell: So maybe this is not science-based, but maybe just massage behind your just kidding, it's not science-based. I just I thought this was a super interesting sidebar. And when I came across this thing that I'm about to share, I was like, oh, I recognize this in myself.

[27:46] Laura Camien: Oh, do I recognize this in my creative processes?

[27:49] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I can't wait. Beeman and Cunios identified two different types of thinking that people use when trying to solve problems creatively. Analytical thinking and insight thinking. Analytical thinking is the kind of thinking we use when we break a problem down into smaller parts and try to solve it step by step. This type of thinking is often deliberate, focused. It involves a lot of mental effort. Insight thinking, on the other hand, is more spontaneous and intuitive. It often happens when we're not actively trying to solve a problem. So it's that sudden aha moment when a solution seems to come out of nowhere like a bolt of lightning. Insight thinking often involves making unexpected connections between seemingly unrelated pieces of information.

You know what's funny, Suze, as you say that, I think I've thought of a couple things. One is like I took philosophy in college to fulfill some, you know, requirement. And I ended up getting like an A plus in the class, which was hilarious to me and my like roommates at the time because I didn't study or anything.

[29:02] Susan Blackwell: But part of it is that insight thinking, because there isn't a wrong answer.

[29:07] Laura Camien: Oh.

[29:08] Susan Blackwell: Another thing it reminds me of is if you've ever played a game of like in a museum, which I know you don't go to, but if you did and you just pass by artwork, you're like, what does this say to you?

[29:17] Laura Camien: And if you've ever just played sort of a little improv game of like, well, I think the red, yeah, the red is clearly standing for the blood and the depth of the agony, the generations, generational pain of this family.

[29:30] Susan Blackwell: And like you're just making, you're making it up. It's not wrong, but it's also not right. It doesn't matter because there isn't a right or wrong. Does that make sense? It's just creative expression.

[29:42] Laura Camien: It's just creative expression.

[29:44] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And you're not so worried about like, I'm not solving a problem of like, will this bridge withstand the weight of a thousand cars on it?

[29:54] Laura Camien: Right.

[29:55] Susan Blackwell: Right. That's a different problem solving. That's a different spark for a different day. But I think where my mind goes with this analytical thinking versus insight thinking is this. I don't actually write about this in my Sparks, but I observe in myself and in others that people really get addicted to the aha and swallowing light, that feeling that comes when a spark, and sometimes they lose steam when it comes to following through on a creative project.

[30:33] Laura Camien: And sometimes when analytical thinking is required, it really falls apart for them.

[30:39] Susan Blackwell: Okay. So can I interject with two questions for you?

[30:42] Laura Camien: Sure.

[30:43] Susan Blackwell: The first question is so in that first, like where you're saying uh the experience like behind our ears here of this spark of insight and aha. Do they talk about dopamine being involved and a burst of dopamine happening?

[31:02] Laura Camien: They don't in the materials that I was looking at.

[31:05] Susan Blackwell: Okay. But I'm certain there is a strong chemical cascade in the body. If Tony Morrison is saying, I feel like I swallowed light and James Cameron feels like he was struck by lightning, there's a strong chemical response in the body. I just don't know what the makeup is.

[31:21] Laura Camien: Okay, okay. I didn't know if they if they talked about that. And then I wondered uh question number two is the experiment you described captures like the neurological activity around that spark and that aha.

[31:38] Susan Blackwell: Now now cut to more challenging analytical work needs to get done for the next answer and what's going on in the brain. This is why I said I at the top, I think I have to do a part two on this because I got so into this aha moment and I was also like, we could spark all night on this one. But I think it's so fascinating, Sus, you're really onto something because as we work with clients, we have witnessed it. We've experienced it personally, but we've witnessed it with clients.

[32:14] Laura Camien: And trying to get to how to be of service and support to someone who wants to abandon their creative project because they've hit this moment.

[32:26] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Now there's a different kind of work that needs to get done, and it feels hard, and you're slugging through it, and you'd rather switch to a brand new project. Because you might be addicted to the aha.

[32:40] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[32:41] Susan Blackwell: So here's an example ripped from the headlines of your own life. You are a screenwriter, and you know, and you're in the thick of it right now that it requires, I'm certain you probably had when you decided what you were going to spend what you knew would be months of your life writing a screenplay. There was like a, I'm sure, a thrill of like landing on what the subject matter was going to be.

[33:10] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[33:10] Susan Blackwell: And that's your insight moment, your insight thinking. This analytical thinking that is required when real there's real craft, learned craft that goes in, practiced craft that goes into screenwriting. And that analytical thinking can also lead to a haas when you're parsing something analytically, and you can be like, Eureka, I got it.

[33:37] Laura Camien: And the cycle continues, and the cycle continues.

[33:40] Susan Blackwell: What you're saying is really interesting, Suze, because I look back at projects in my early life started and unfinished. And what I now see likely happened was exactly that burst of excitement around the original spark, the original aha. A lot of work goes into it. Next level of like sharing it, and then discovering there's more work to be done.

[34:10] Laura Camien: And then being like, oh, I'm overwhelmed by that, and it's not as fun anymore, and set it aside.

[34:17] Susan Blackwell: And just recently with this screenplay, what I it all of this like learning has taken many years and many decades. But what I have learned now, I literally just on Sunday did a little just a gathering of friends to do a table read. It's like draft 1.5, one and a half. Like I had had a draft, and then I reworked the second act. And so I know it's not that far along, but you still have the excitement and the rush of like, yeah, this is this moment.

[34:51] Laura Camien: And both of these things can be true.

[34:54] Susan Blackwell: It was an incredibly successful table read, and I have a lot more work to do.

[35:01] Laura Camien: Sure.

[35:01] Susan Blackwell: And now you repeat the process. And the learning that not giving up in this moment is how you get to great work.

[35:13] Laura Camien: I think as creatives, we owe it to ourselves to learn how to think both ways that you're talking about.

[35:20] Susan Blackwell: You know, that is one of my what do we make of this?

[35:24] Laura Camien: Oh yes.

[35:25] Susan Blackwell: It has to be. And I mean, just to jump my own spark, like it is my observation of self and others that when somebody lives too much in either insight thinking or analytical thinking, it's a tough road ahoe when you're trying to be creative, when you're trying to, you know, put it out there as a creative artist.

[35:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[35:49] Susan Blackwell: I think we have all seen, and I know I am actually guilty of being someone who from time to time I get that thrill sitting on Hunter Bell's couch and feeling like it's as easily as shuffling a deck of cards.

[36:06] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:07] Susan Blackwell: And a lot of the time it's like overworked, sweaty, like because I couldn't figure it out via insight thinking.

[36:17] Laura Camien: And so I had to rely on analytical thinking.

[36:20] Susan Blackwell: And the longer form thing that you're working on, the more absolute certainty. It's not going to happen in an afternoon.

[36:29] Laura Camien: Oh God.

[36:29] Susan Blackwell: It's as if like if you took that piece that you created and then decided we would like to make an entire musical built around this idea. Well, you may have a free-flowing process, but you're not going to create a musical an entire night perfectly structured evening in one sitting.

[36:50] Laura Camien: It's just not gonna happen.

[36:52] Susan Blackwell: First of all, I just want to say congratulations on having that table read. We haven't even had time to talk about it. So proud of you.

[36:58] Laura Camien: We love it. Keep going.

[36:59] Susan Blackwell: And I also want to say that thing that you just said about these two things. We hold these two truths to be evident, that it can be a really satisfying, wildly successful table read, and you can know the truth that you have a lot of work to do on the piece.

[37:19] Laura Camien: I think that when we were younger, and I'm talking specifically about you and I, we wanted those early drafts so badly to come out fully formed and perfect.

[37:30] Susan Blackwell: Yes, that we would abandon stuff in the midst of the process.

[37:35] Laura Camien: But what you just described is so healthy.

[37:38] Susan Blackwell: It's a positive prognosis for your piece because it's such a healthy thing that you could be there, be present, enjoy it, not be completely tormented that it wasn't a fully formed perfect thing, that it scares you off of working on it.

[37:38] Laura Camien: That you could be like, that was fun and great, and I have miles to go on this.

[37:57] Susan Blackwell: I love that. I mean, I guess I've just really come to understand if you want a multi-layered, complex work of art, you cannot create layers in one sitting.

[38:11] Laura Camien: Do you know what I mean?

[38:12] Susan Blackwell: Think of a paint.

[38:13] Laura Camien: Yes.

[38:13] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. You gotta let that first layer dry, and now you're ready to put on another layer.

[38:18] Laura Camien: You might be able to if it's a shorter piece.

[38:20] Susan Blackwell: So for instance, that piece that I was describing, that I'm very, I was very pleased with that piece, very proud of it. It was a six-minute piece. You know what I mean? And there are sections of longer form pieces that same I've had, like, oh my God, I just wrote that in one setting, and I don't know that I would change that much of it.

[38:40] Laura Camien: That was like a little free write, and it came out pretty close to baked, and I love it.

[38:45] Susan Blackwell: But it was a piece of something, right?

[38:46] Laura Camien: Yep.

[38:47] Susan Blackwell: That's why we call it a piece.

[38:48] Laura Camien: A piece of a piece.

[38:50] Susan Blackwell: Um, okay. So you were asking a little bit about what's happening in the brain and why am I massaging behind my ears.

[38:57] Laura Camien: I think that this might address this a little bit.

[38:59] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[39:00] Susan Blackwell: So in their study, Beaman and Cunios found that the people who solved the word puzzles with a sudden insight, who were using insight thinking, or had that aha moment, there was a burst of activity in the right hemisphere of their brain just before they solved the puzzle.

[39:19] Laura Camien: Wow.

[39:20] Susan Blackwell: So there's this discovery that they made that when people are primed for this aha moment, they tend to be more relaxed and less focused on the task at hand.

[39:31] Laura Camien: And this is because their brains are busy making connections and associations that lead to the insight.

[39:37] Susan Blackwell: So essentially, if I understand the research correctly, a second before the aha happens, there's this burst of alpha wave activity that occurs.

[39:37] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[39:50] Susan Blackwell: So there's this sort of alpha wave. I'm waving my hands in the air as if this is what alpha waves look like. But this is how I pictured it. It's like and then the spark sparks.

[40:00] Laura Camien: And again, it's typically associated with a relaxed, unfocused state, which suggests a certain level of mental relaxation.

[40:10] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[40:13] Laura Camien: And this is why many people find that taking a break or stepping away from a problem can often lead to the creative breakthrough.

[40:20] Susan Blackwell: So, Cam's, this reminds me of sparks you've done about how creativity thrives when we are bored, how creativity thrives when we are in nature.

[40:30] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[40:30] Susan Blackwell: We've talked about meditating. So many things come to me as I meditate, like problem solving, walking in the shower, driving, just like mindlessly mind wandering while we're driving.

[40:44] Laura Camien: I feel like when we walk our brains into this state, it's like we are prepping the soil for the papawi for the seedling to burst through.

[40:56] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[40:57] Laura Camien: Yes. Papae is a word I learned from Laura Camien on the Sparks File. I hope I'm pronouncing it right, Lady Gaga.

[41:02] Susan Blackwell: I love wee.

[41:04] Laura Camien: And Suze, one other thing that I want to say, this reminds me of when we're talking about past sparks and stuff. So the puzzle piece, Sparks, it reminds me of this because if you've ever worked on a puzzle that is going to take you longer than one afternoon to do, sometimes you go to bed and the next morning you're walking by, and that little section that you had been agonizing over, you walk by and you're like, ah, I see it.

[41:34] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[41:34] Laura Camien: You have the aha moment.

[41:36] Susan Blackwell: That's a real aha moment.

[41:39] Laura Camien: That's a real aha moment.

[41:40] Susan Blackwell: Now, putting together a puzzle also develops the analytical because also if you've been working on a puzzle and you're literally at a standstill, you're like, okay, I'm not seeing it. I'm going to go piece by piece, and I'm going to organize the pieces by this shape, this shape, and this shape.

[42:03] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[42:03] Susan Blackwell: And I will try these shapes until I find the one.

[42:06] Laura Camien: Yep.

[42:07] Susan Blackwell: So when we have talked before about doing puzzles being so good for the brain, it's developing both of those things, I think.

[42:14] Laura Camien: It's working both sides.

[42:16] Susan Blackwell: Bingo.

[42:17] Laura Camien: I might start a puzzle tonight.

[42:19] Susan Blackwell: There's your aha.

[42:20] Laura Camien: This spark, I have to tell you, helped me to integrate some things that you have shared with me before in those aforementioned sparks.

[42:30] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[42:30] Laura Camien: I had my own aha with it where I was like, oh, that's the boredom spark. That's the nature spark. That's the like, why does it matter that we go and sit and just watch the clouds roll by or watch a fire burn? You're cultivating a brain space that can do this.

[42:50] Susan Blackwell: I also just have to say, this is helping me for this reason as well.

[42:54] Laura Camien: I observe in myself sometimes how I try to use one thinking when the other would be more beneficial.

[43:02] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[43:03] Laura Camien: So for instance, I just pulled all my tax materials together for the accountant to do my taxes. And that's a moment where I feel like analytical thinking is super helpful in order to make sure I was cross-checking, cross-referencing, like here's my American Express bill, here's the receipts that I have documented as hard copy receipts, making sure that nothing fell through the cracks.

[43:29] Laura Camien: And that to me is super analytical. And sometimes when I'm fatigued, I'm just like, oh, I'm just gonna use a softer kind of thinking where I'm like, I'm just gonna eyeball this. I'm just gonna see if I pick up anything that seems like it might have fallen through the cracks when really that's a time when analytical thinking would serve me, and vice versa. I'm sure there are times when I try to apply analytical thinking to what I think of as like softer creative problem solving.

[43:59] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[44:00] Laura Camien: And I'm like, it may not be the inspired choice in those situations, if that makes sense.

[44:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And are you conscious of that choice?

[44:09] Laura Camien: Well, I am now. I am actually. And it usually, and in all honesty, it usually is tied to fatigue. So for instance, there are times when I know when my analytical thinking is required, those are things I should. I've said this on the podcast before, I should do them in the morning.

[44:28] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[44:29] Laura Camien: I have a greater capacity for analytical thinking in the morning. And insight thinking, I feel like can occur when my brain is a little more wandering.

[44:41] Susan Blackwell: Makes sense.

[44:42] Laura Camien: But at the same time, I'm very creatively fertile in the morning. So what does that say? I don't know.

[44:47] Susan Blackwell: Oh, your brain, your brain is rested and ready to go on either task that you require of it.

[44:55] Laura Camien: I love that the spark brought you back to, I think I'm gonna do a puzzle tonight. Keep that brain sharp, Cammy in. We need it. The spark file needs it.

[45:03] Susan Blackwell: The more thank you. The more conscious I become of the benefits, the more aware I am that like even while doing a puzzle, then my brain might be putting together the pieces of like the sequence of scenes in a screenplay that has been troubling me.

[45:20] Laura Camien: Because you're sort of distracting your conscious brain. I remember my teacher Linda Berry talking about this, how she would, when she was painting and drawing, she would put on old television shows in the background, and she wasn't paying attention to them, but she said, I remember this clearly, this gives this certain part of my brain, it is engaging with the TV show, and it's just sort of like keeping it company and keeping it busy so that this insightful part of the brain can be making the painting.

[45:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[45:53] Laura Camien: So there's a lot of ways to get to the papawi, I think.

[45:56] Susan Blackwell: I think so too.

[45:57] Laura Camien: Yeah. I love this.

[45:59] Susan Blackwell: I love this.

[46:00] Laura Camien: There's this John Cleese quote that I love, and I refer to it. I didn't even know this is what I'm aiming at when I shared it. But I think you've probably heard me say to clients from time to time when we're in coaching situations, where I'll say, I think the best approach would be to gently rest your thoughts against this thing that you are trying to solve and see what your brain delivers back to you. Instead of looking at it directly and like trying to solve for it.

[46:32] Susan Blackwell: I think what I'm trying to say is, I think that insight thinking may serve you better here than analytical thinking. Now I have more language for it. But there's just John Cleese quote that I love that has informed that. And this is it. John Cleese was one of um the Monty Pythons, and uh he's a great artist, but and also really as obsessed with creativity as Laura and I are.

[46:55] Laura Camien: And you know, Suze, I just read his little book last year.

[46:58] Susan Blackwell: I was gonna do a spark on it, but I haven't gotten around to it.

[47:01] Laura Camien: But it's just a little book that came out last year.

[47:03] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[47:04] Laura Camien: With a lot of his creative thoughts.

[47:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I like a lot of his creative thoughts. He said, This is the extraordinary thing about creativity. If you just keep your mind resting against the subject in a friendly but persistent way, sooner or later, you will get a reward from your unconscious.

[47:21] Laura Camien: To me, that quote is a great description of insight thinking.

[47:25] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[47:26] Laura Camien: Yes.

[47:27] Susan Blackwell: Okay, so we've explored what it feels like to have an aha moment and what is happening in our brain when it occurs, but why are aha's so beneficial?

[47:39] Laura Camien: I think I'm probably stating the obvious and preaching to the choir. But experiencing creative aha moments can be beneficial for a number of reasons. It can provide a sense of accomplishment and boost self-esteem. I know I have had that feeling. Like it feels like a reason to live. It feels like, you know, it feels like life is moving through you. As the person has solved the problem or created something new, it can lead to increased motivation and inspiration to continue creating.

[48:11] Additionally, experiencing creative breakthroughs has been linked to improved cognitive function and mental flexibility. It can also help reduce stress and improve overall well-being by providing a sense of purpose and fulfillment. Finally, creative breakthroughs can lead to new opportunities and discoveries, whether in art, science, or other fields.

[48:32] So we've referred to it, but how can we increase the aha moments in our life?

[48:37] Susan Blackwell: Let's get the ratio of aha moments up.

[48:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[48:41] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[48:42] Laura Camien: There are several ways you can cultivate alpha wave activity in your brain to increase the likelihood of experiencing aha's. Here are a few suggestions.

[48:51] Meditation. Meditation is a great way to calm your mind and increase alpha wave activity. Try to meditate for at least 10 to 15 minutes a day to clear your mind and improve your focus.

[49:02] Exercise. You've heard us say all of these things before. Just a gentle reminder regular exercise has been shown to increase alpha wave activity. Engage in activities that you enjoy, like yoga, swimming, walking to boost your brain activity.

[49:16] Listening to music, listening to music can help relax your mind and increase alpha wave activity. Choose music that you enjoy, or find calming to help get your brain in a creative state, or like rip it up with some.

[49:30] Laura Camien: I feel like that is so personal. Like maybe listening to speed metal, like does something that you know, yeah.

[49:38] Laura Camien: Mindfulness, practicing mindfulness throughout the day could help keep your mind calm and focused. Try to stay present and aware of your surroundings, paying attention to the sights, sounds, and sensations and broken logs around you, James Cameron.

[49:53] Susan Blackwell: I also say, I think nature, I don't always remember to do it, even though I have an abundance of nature around me, but being in nature, I feel like is a big one.

[50:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[50:02] Susan Blackwell: And remember, everyone's brain is unique. So what works for one person, what works for Lizzo may not work for James Cameron, may not work for Toni Morrison.

[50:13] Laura Camien: Yeah, may work for you.

[50:14] Susan Blackwell: So experiment with different approaches, find what works best for you to cultivate that alpha wave activity and increase your chances of experiencing creative breakthroughs.

[50:26] Laura Camien: I love all of those ideas.

[50:29] Susan Blackwell: There's just no downside to taking on more of that.

[50:33] Laura Camien: It's so funny because I feel like all roads lead to Rome with creativity, self-care, mental health, physical health.

[50:44] Susan Blackwell: And we know it.

[50:45] Laura Camien: And it's just whether we choose to engage with it or not. And I'm listening I'm I'm talking myself here. Like, like we know that exercise, nature, meditation, like we know.

[50:59] Susan Blackwell: And that's why, like, I really believe like find those things that you actually enjoy doing and worry less about like does this have to mean 90 minutes in the gym?

[51:10] Laura Camien: No.

[51:11] Susan Blackwell: No, no, no, no, no. It doesn't. It can mean a walk around the block.

[51:14] Laura Camien: Yeah, a walk in the park.

[51:16] Susan Blackwell: It can mean like going and taking a bath. It can mean chopping vegetables.

[51:21] Laura Camien: I love it. If this means more aha moments, I'm totally into it.

[51:27] Susan Blackwell: I think it does. And I also just want to stress again when the aha moment comes to you, because it seems like that lightning strike is gonna always be so sharp and clear in your mind. Just write it down.

[51:40] Laura Camien: Just write it down.

[51:41] Susan Blackwell: Just pop it in your scarc.

[51:42] Laura Camien: Yes, write it down.

[51:44] Susan Blackwell: Just write it down.

[51:45] Laura Camien: I think I'm gonna close with this bit about William Wordsworth's poem The Prelude. This is an autobiographical poem, and in it Wordsworth describes a moment of epiphany that he experienced while walking through the countryside, which led to the composition of the prelude.

[52:05] This passage is often cited as an example of the kind of transcendent, interconnected feeling that can be associated with creative breakthroughs. A sense sublime of something far more deeply interfused, whose dwelling is the light of setting suns and the round ocean and the living air and the blue sky and in the mind of man, emotion and a spirit that impels all thinking things, all objects of all thought, and rolls through all things.

[52:44] Laura Camien: That sounds like swallowing light to me when you and that's my spec, Laura Cammy.

[52:51] Susan Blackwell: Suze, I love this spark.

[52:54] Laura Camien: I love this spark.

[52:55] Susan Blackwell: I do too.

[52:56] Laura Camien: Yes, thank you so much for this. But as I said earlier, I have so many more questions about what else is happening.

[53:05] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[53:05] Laura Camien: When what happens next?

[53:07] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[53:08] Laura Camien: I mean, I'm right on time. And I also feel like a tiny bit remiss because we sleep, eat, and breathe creativity. We talk about it all the time, but I'm like, why?

[53:19] Susan Blackwell: Why does it feel so good?

[53:21] Laura Camien: That was really the question I was asking. Why does creativity feel so good?

[53:27] Susan Blackwell: And I think this is part of the answer.

[53:29] Laura Camien: I don't think it's all of it, but I think it's part of it.

[53:31] Susan Blackwell: Because part of it.

[53:32] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[53:32] Susan Blackwell: Part of it.

[53:33] Laura Camien: And also learning that it doesn't always feel like that.

[53:38] Susan Blackwell: It sure does.

[53:39] Laura Camien: Like that's at its peak. And yet, if we have the expectation that I'm gonna get into a project and it's gonna feel that way start to finish.

[53:48] Susan Blackwell: We're setting ourselves up for disappointment.

[53:50] Laura Camien: That's right. And then it's there's all sorts of other complications, resistance and uh hidden counter commitments. And that's frankly, not to I didn't think I would take it here, but I think that's why having somebody on the outside, like a creativity coach or creativity group is super helpful because when the going gets tough, they can help and support and look for those things where have you thought about this might be a play?

[54:18] Susan Blackwell: Because it isn't, it isn't as easy as flipping a switch and being like, I'll be analytical in this moment, I'll be insightful in this moment.

[54:26] Laura Camien: That's right.

[54:27] Susan Blackwell: It's more complicated than that. And I think that when you're not getting the dopamine from your project itself, it can be helpful to have that support system around you that helps to feed you and create some dopamine hits that you need to keep going until your project can get feed you those again.

[54:48] Laura Camien: I'll definitely do a part two. And when I do that part two, I will do some research and find out what's the chemical cascade that's happening in the body.

[54:56] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I would love what it happens.

[54:58] Laura Camien: You've got it's gotta be dopamine.

[55:00] Susan Blackwell: There's gotta be it's gotta be in there somewhere.

[55:02] Laura Camien: There might be others as well.

[55:03] Susan Blackwell: But yeah, but that's that leads to dot dot dot. My non-scientific assumption that consumption, like consumption of whether it's television, media, whatever it is, is a cheap counterfeit for creativity because I'm chasing dopamine.

[55:21] Laura Camien: I'm chasing the dopamine, whether it's tick scrolling through TikTok, buying shit like I'm chasing, I'm chasing cheap dopamine instead of manufacturing it in that little spot behind my ear in the right hemisphere of my brain.

[55:34] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[55:35] Laura Camien: That's right. Dopamining that's Laura Cammy's new trademark biohack.

[55:43] Susan Blackwell: Well, that's a surprising what do we make of it?

[55:46] Laura Camien: Dopamine.

[55:48] Susan Blackwell: That's amazing.

[55:49] Laura Camien: Oh, friends, that's it. This episode of the Sparks File was made on the lands of the Lenape people.

[55:54] Susan Blackwell: And as always, we hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen to me, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life, you can email us at the sparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[56:13] Laura Camien: We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you've got to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[56:21] Susan Blackwell: You can follow us on social at the sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review this podcast.

[56:28] Laura Camien: If you are so moved, it really does help other listeners to find us. Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love.

[56:36] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, that's interesting because we just took this DNA test.

[56:41] Laura Camien: Turns out we're 100% those bitches.

[56:44] Susan Blackwell: And you can pick yourself.

[56:45] Laura Camien: You just go straight up like yourself.

[56:48] Susan Blackwell: That's the energy we want to close on, right?

[56:50] Laura Camien: Oh, sure.

[56:51] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that's very us.

[56:53] Laura Camien: It's very on brand.

[56:55] Susan Blackwell: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that has been knocking at your door.

[57:05] Laura Camien: It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[57:09] Susan Blackwell: You know, you gotta take it and make it.

[57:14] Laura Camien: Bye.

[57:15] Susan Blackwell: Bye, everybody.

[57:16] Laura Camien: We're not open into something that inspires me.

[57:21] Susan Blackwell: I dump it in the spark files.

[57:26] Laura Camien: Could be something that I wanna pick or how I wanna be.

[57:31] Susan Blackwell: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[57:35] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark files.

[57:40] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the sparkfiles.