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[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:14] Laura Camien: Spark file.

[0:18] Susan Blackwell: To be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be, I pump it in my spark style.

[0:23] Laura Camien: Spark.

[0:26] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark slip.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camille.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:52] Laura Camien: If you're an OG member of the Sparkfile community, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:56] Susan Blackwell: If you're joining us for the first time, well, welcome, friend.

[1:00] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:06] Susan Blackwell: But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a Sparkfile?

[1:09] Laura Camien: A Sparkfile is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:15] Susan Blackwell: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your little campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:24] Laura Camien: But don't despair, we're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity.

[1:33] Susan Blackwell: To light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:39] Laura Camien: Or a commitment to continual discomfort for the sake of personal growth and creativity.

[1:48] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[1:52] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:55] Susan Blackwell: That means we have more sparks than we can possibly use in this lifetime.

[1:59] Laura Camien: So if something lights you up, we encourage you, we beg you, we implore you to take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:08] Susan Blackwell: Without further ado, let's open up the Sparks file.

[2:14] Laura Camien: Susie B.

[2:16] Susan Blackwell: Laura Cammy, I started telling you about this off mic, but I'm bringing it onto the mic.

[2:22] Laura Camien: Oh, I hope, oh, I hope it's what I think it is. Please tell me more.

[2:38] Susan Blackwell: And it is a small club of animals that toss things at other members of their own species.

[2:45] Laura Camien: Oh my god.

[2:46] Susan Blackwell: Literally, the URL is NewYorkTimes.com slash 2022 11 nut slash octopus throwing silt.

[2:58] Laura Camien: And I was reading this last night on my phone before I went to sleep.

[3:04] Susan Blackwell: And they have these beautiful little videos, and the little, what do they call it at the bottom of this one video says someone fooled around and found out, which is the New York Times way of saying someone fucked around and found out.

[3:20] Laura Camien: And it shows this pissed off, gloomy little octopus just spitting silt at his little neighbor octopus who I don't know if the neighbor is too close.

[3:31] Susan Blackwell: Fucking love it. It's also throwing um like empty shells at its little friend who it's pissed off at.

[3:40] Laura Camien: But they're not spit too, or is it just throw stuff?

[3:43] Susan Blackwell: It does, it does all manner of things, but they're trying to determine if it's actually throwing it at its little neighbor there, or like what it's doing.

[3:55] Laura Camien: This is amazing. And I feel like it like is resonating so much. Because remember, did that spark my octopus teacher?

[4:03] Susan Blackwell: That documentary.

[4:04] Laura Camien: This is why I thought of you, but of course. And then fuck around and find find out. Was it another uh episode? I'm just like this has you written all over it.

[4:14] Susan Blackwell: How did they know? How do they know Laura Cammy and also I love because you and I, I'm gonna share a little bit, uh listeners. We are uh committed to our collaboration, and we always are talking about like learnings and observations, and one thing like this relates to we talk about like there are people who when irritated about potentially anything, kind of go around just chucking shit at other people who are completely unrelated to why they're they're gloomy or grouchy, yeah, can just squirt out sideways, just like gloomy octopus on on other people just going around that that fart sound you made, yeah, completely it just synced up perfectly with this video of the gloomy octopus rising up out of the the floor of the ocean and just going one, two, three, on his friend.

[5:11] Laura Camien: That was beautiful. But this is like this little guy is like a lesson in like people don't crap on your friends, don't crap on the your loved ones just because you're you know having a bad day.

[5:26] Susan Blackwell: Try to articulate what's going on, you know, you don't have to swoop on people.

[5:31] Laura Camien: Don't be a gloomy octopus.

[5:32] Susan Blackwell: Don't be a gloomy octopus.

[5:34] Laura Camien: I love this so much, Suze.

[5:36] Susan Blackwell: Thank you. You're on my mind all the time, Laura Cammy.

[5:40] Laura Camien: Laura, you got anything for me from over there?

[5:43] Susan Blackwell: Oh, Suze, I got a big old spark is what I have.

[5:47] Laura Camien: I got a big old one.

[5:48] Susan Blackwell: So I feel like I better get into that.

[5:51] Laura Camien: It's got side sparks, it's got it all.

[5:54] Susan Blackwell: All right, all right, I'm into it.

[5:56] Laura Camien: So I had um, well, first of all, I've been having like seriously social weeks because a lot of our sparklers are traveling to New York, dropping in, or uh doing performances and whatnot.

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: So I've been out and about you have been sparking it up, and one of our dear sparklers, Alex Gardner.

[6:17] Laura Camien: Hi, Alex.

[6:18] Susan Blackwell: We had coffee when she was in town, and she shared a spark with me that was so spot on.

[6:26] Laura Camien: It was one of those sparks where you just immediately know, like, oh, this is for me. I need to hear this.

[6:30] Susan Blackwell: And also, your brain is already like my brain was like three beats ahead. Like, I need to run with this idea and make this idea my own, which is what I instantly did.

[6:41] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh. So I can't wait to tell you.

[6:44] Susan Blackwell: When she when Alex shared it, was she like, I think this might be a spark?

[6:48] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah, she was.

[6:49] Susan Blackwell: Oh, she knew.

[6:50] Laura Camien: Yeah, and also I'll just say it was so delightful because she was talking about the podcast.

[6:56] Susan Blackwell: And let me tell you, friends, Suze and I can't remember half of the things that we have said on this podcast.

[7:01] Laura Camien: But when someone is like, you know what, Sparks I loved? I love this spark. It jogs a memory.

[7:07] Susan Blackwell: And Alex was like, I loved that breakfast cereal spark.

[7:12] Laura Camien: And I was like, I'd forgotten all about it.

[7:15] Susan Blackwell: And I am still convinced that someone needs to write a screenplay about about the champions of breakfast.

[7:21] Laura Camien: Champions of Breakfast, but also specifically post his daughter, who then became like really like one of the early female CEOs of Marjorie?

[7:33] Susan Blackwell: Was that her name?

[7:33] Laura Camien: Marjorie Post.

[7:35] Susan Blackwell: Marjorie Post, friends, go back and listen if you if you want like a really great story idea.

[7:41] Laura Camien: She's something else.

[7:42] Susan Blackwell: Anyway, Alex reminded me of that.

[7:44] Laura Camien: So it was it was great.

[7:45] Susan Blackwell: It was really delightful to revisit that spark.

[7:49] Laura Camien: And then Alex slid this juicy spark.

[7:57] Susan Blackwell: Thank you, Alex. I'm so excited.

[8:00] Laura Camien: So Alex told me about this book, The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter's.

[8:06] Susan Blackwell: And this book is about embracing discomfort in order to reclaim your wild, happy, healthy self.

[8:14] Laura Camien: And I was like, I'm interested in this.

[8:18] Susan Blackwell: I'm excited to tell you about this book because this book is interesting.

[8:21] Laura Camien: But I also want to go a step further because my immediate interest, of course, was like, do these analogies extend to the world of creativity?

[8:32] Susan Blackwell: Because I think we have a comfort crisis in creativity as well.

[8:36] Laura Camien: And the book barely touches that.

[8:39] Susan Blackwell: So what I'm gonna do is take the sparks that Michael Easter's gave me, and I'm gonna weave my creativity thoughts and theories throughout.

[8:47] Laura Camien: I love it.

[8:48] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[8:49] Laura Camien: Okay.

[8:49] Susan Blackwell: Okay, so here it is.

[8:51] Laura Camien: The premise of the book, really, is that the comforts that we assume so easily in our day today have existed really for the tiniest fraction of time in terms of humanity.

[9:03] Susan Blackwell: Like for hundreds of thousands of years, every single day was a fight for survival for humans and most of history.

[9:10] Laura Camien: Humans spent every waking moment in movement, literally on the search for food or on the search for shelter.

[9:18] Susan Blackwell: Suze, did you see this video? You might have, because I sent it to one of our sparklers because it reminded me of Chris Pappas.

[9:24] Laura Camien: Chris Papas, hi if you're listening.

[9:26] Susan Blackwell: But I sent it on Boxer, so you might see it there.

[9:30] Laura Camien: But it is the author John Green posted it on his socials, like his TikToks, and basically he described a really fun way to think about human history, kind of a terrifying way, but humans have been around for 300,000 years, which is just kind of too big of a number to comprehend.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: So John Green is like if you condense all of human history down to one calendar year, and just imagine that on January 1st, humans emerged on Earth, and today is December 31st at 1159 p.m.

[9:49] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: All of human history happens between January 1st and you know, 1159.

[10:14] Laura Camien: Yep.

[10:14] Susan Blackwell: And he goes on to this is like a the quickest video, but he's like in January, we know that long distance trade in South Africa happened and the use of fire happened in January.

[10:26] Laura Camien: By April, we know that humans were using grass and insect repellent plants for bedding.

[10:35] Susan Blackwell: By May, clothing was common.

[10:38] Laura Camien: By July, August, humans were making symbolic art and paintings and cave drawings, etc.

[10:46] Susan Blackwell: By December 15th, the first evidence of consistent use of agriculture.

[10:52] Laura Camien: Huh.

[10:53] Susan Blackwell: December 25, the Great Pyramid of Giza is built.

[10:57] Laura Camien: Okay.

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: December 28, Julius Caesar it becomes Emperor of Rome.

[11:02] Laura Camien: December 28, Mongolian Empire, the Magna Carta, the emergence of nation states, the industrial revolution, the invention of the novel, the microscope, the scientific method, the awareness that we are in a vast and possibly infinite universe.

[11:17] Susan Blackwell: Hamlet, the printing press, the black plague, all happened today, December 31st.

[11:26] Laura Camien: Wow.

[11:27] Susan Blackwell: And he tells us that in this calendar of human history, photography, recorded music, two world wars, space travel, computers, the internet, automobiles, social media, light bulbs, the atom bomb, all happened in the last five hours.

[11:44] Laura Camien: Wow.

[11:44] Susan Blackwell: So it kind of puts in perspective.

[11:47] Laura Camien: I thought that little video did so like a lot to help wrap my brain around like what Michael Easter's is talking about in the comfort crisis.

[11:57] Susan Blackwell: He's really asking us to think about how comfortable human beings have become in a very short period of time.

[12:03] Susan Blackwell: And on this calendar, we're really talking about like in the last 15 minutes of human history.

[12:09] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[12:10] Susan Blackwell: Refrigeration has only been around for a hundred years.

[12:13] Laura Camien: I mean, before that, even if you had food, it wasn't going to last long.

[12:16] Susan Blackwell: Like you had to concern yourself with where the next meal was going to come from.

[12:20] Laura Camien: Of course, now our next meal can be delivered any hour of day or night.

[12:25] Susan Blackwell: George Ash it, baby.

[12:26] Laura Camien: And I understand this is also this is a very privileged conversation. This is not true of all humans on Earth.

[12:31] Susan Blackwell: Correct.

[12:32] Laura Camien: This happens to be true of the majority of Americans.

[12:36] Susan Blackwell: So I don't want to, I don't want to say this is true for everyone.

[12:41] Laura Camien: But humans in general have come a long, long way.

[12:45] Susan Blackwell: As for comfort in our homes, heating our homes has only been around for 150 years.

[12:51] Laura Camien: Even then, you had to continually feed the system coal or have firewood.

[12:57] Susan Blackwell: You had to put an ongoing effort into staying warm or thinking about where you might be able to stay warm.

[13:05] Laura Camien: Air conditioning wasn't widely used until the 1960s.

[13:09] Susan Blackwell: So thinking about how you were going to cool off or stay out of the heat was a constant.

[13:13] Laura Camien: The point is, all this comfort that we now enjoy, it's new to humans.

[13:21] Susan Blackwell: It's very new.

[13:22] Laura Camien: But what scientists and sociologists and anthropologists are all finding is that this comfort does not make us happier.

[13:30] Susan Blackwell: In fact, our ancestors, who were always on the run, were likely much happier than we are.

[13:36] Laura Camien: They were naturally mindful and always living in the moment.

[13:40] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, because they thought they were going to get eaten by a saber-toothed tiger.

[13:44] Laura Camien: That'll bring you into the moment.

[13:45] Susan Blackwell: That'll bring you into the present moment, but like just did not have time to deal with existential examinations, like criticisms about the past and dread about the future.

[13:56] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[13:57] Susan Blackwell: What we've done with all this extra time we've given ourselves with these comforts is fill it with worry.

[14:04] Laura Camien: We have filled it with anxiety about things that frankly we don't need to worry.

[14:10] Susan Blackwell: We're actually not going to get eaten by a saber-toothed tiger.

[14:14] Laura Camien: But we are going to sit around in our comfortable homes thinking about the past, worrying about the past, dreading the future, etc.

[14:27] Susan Blackwell: We have created so many technological advances in order to free up our time.

[14:31] Laura Camien: And instead of using the newly acquired time to truly live, you could argue, as he does in this book, that we have used this time to numb ourselves.

[14:41] Susan Blackwell: Overworking food, alcohol, screen time, which has led to more mental health challenges such as anxiety and burnout.

[14:51] Laura Camien: As this relates to creatives specifically, I will add this.

[14:55] Susan Blackwell: Does any of this feel true?

[14:57] Laura Camien: Maybe you do have more time in your schedule than you realize currently, or you specifically free up some time.

[15:04] Susan Blackwell: And instead of creating, we worry about what people might think about our creation.

[15:10] Laura Camien: If we make it, we worry about how it compares to other creations and on and on.

[15:16] Susan Blackwell: And isn't it just more comfortable to stay on the couch, what you and I might call status quo street, than it is to get up and try something new?

[15:26] Laura Camien: One of the huge takeaways that I took from this book is about how our brain works in regard to problems.

[15:34] Susan Blackwell: It's called problem creep.

[15:36] Laura Camien: Well, scientifically, it's called prevalence induced concept change, but that's sort of a mouthful.

[15:42] Susan Blackwell: So we'll go with problem creep.

[15:45] Laura Camien: And what it means is that as we experience fewer problems, we don't become more satisfied.

[15:52] Susan Blackwell: Instead, we lower our threshold for what we consider a problem.

[15:57] Laura Camien: And we end up with the same number of troubles, except our new problems are progressively more hollow.

[16:04] Susan Blackwell: What it means is that when there are no problems, our brains are programmed to look for more problems.

[16:12] Laura Camien: Michael Easter's says the same thing happens with our comfort levels.

[16:15] Susan Blackwell: Today's comfort is tomorrow's discomfort.

[16:18] Laura Camien: So as we solve one comfort issue, our brain looks for the next one.

[16:23] Susan Blackwell: As we do that, we keep shrinking our comfort zone.

[16:26] Laura Camien: And the problem is that all of this happens unconsciously.

[16:30] Susan Blackwell: We're not reliable at noticing that comfort creep is consuming us and what it's doing to us.

[16:38] Laura Camien: So again, I'm gonna pause and really think about how this relates to our creativity.

[16:43] Susan Blackwell: Think back to a time when perhaps we used to run and play and put on shows and draw and paint and pluck away at the piano and build stuff, invent games, sing, dance.

[16:56] Laura Camien: When did we start narrowing and narrowing and narrowing what we allowed ourselves to do creatively?

[17:05] Susan Blackwell: One by one, many of these things became uncomfortable to us.

[17:09] Laura Camien: Why?

[17:10] Susan Blackwell: Maybe because we compared ourselves to others, someone made a mean comment, didn't understand our work.

[17:18] Laura Camien: Maybe a teacher told us we weren't cut out for it.

[17:21] Susan Blackwell: We were told our gender didn't sew, our gender didn't take woodwork classes.

[17:26] Laura Camien: What potential sources of joy have you cut out of your life because pursuing them brought some discomfort?

[17:34] Susan Blackwell: But do you also think that some of those things fell away because responsibility amps up as you age?

[17:42] Laura Camien: Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[17:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm giving an ex like an extreme example.

[17:48] Laura Camien: But the point is any of those things.

[17:52] Susan Blackwell: If you're if you have a free afternoon, you are not likely to reach for any of those things that you gave up at age 12.

[18:00] Laura Camien: It feels uncomfortable, is the point.

[18:02] Susan Blackwell: It feels uncomfortable.

[18:04] Laura Camien: Maybe because we are not good enough at it, maybe because of some comment in the past or some criticism, but we stopped giving ourselves permission to pursue a lot of creative activities.

[18:17] Susan Blackwell: And I'm just curious for all of us to think about like how many things we back away from for fear that we're gonna be uncomfortable.

[18:25] Laura Camien: That is what this whole book is about.

[18:28] Susan Blackwell: This book is questioning what would happen if we could become more consciously aware of the comfort creep that's happening in our lives and how we're narrowing and narrowing what we feel comfortable doing.

[18:41] Laura Camien: So Michael Easter approached it in this way.

[18:44] Susan Blackwell: He gave himself a challenge.

[18:46] Laura Camien: He decided to give up all the comforts of his modern life and go for a month-long hunting trip in the Alaskan wilderness, sleeping in a tent, hunting or scavenging for food, staying warm by a fire.

[18:59] Susan Blackwell: I mean, this book was really a fun read because so much of it was through the lens of this like Alaskan adventure.

[19:05] Laura Camien: And you do love alone.

[19:07] Susan Blackwell: I do love alone.

[19:09] Laura Camien: I do love those survival skills.

[19:12] Susan Blackwell: Um, but it's also not very practical that we're all gonna scrap our lives for a month and go live in the Alaskan wilderness.

[19:20] Laura Camien: Right.

[19:20] Susan Blackwell: Although, with our dear client Carrie Seward there in Alaska, maybe we could at least visit.

[19:26] Laura Camien: Hey Carrie, night nine.

[19:30] Susan Blackwell: But we don't have to spend, you know, we don't have to go that extreme.

[19:34] Laura Camien: But I would like to dissect some of the discomforts that Michael Easter's put himself through and the learnings that he came away with.

[19:41] Susan Blackwell: Because I think, again, we can take these and apply them to our creative lives as well.

[19:47] Laura Camien: But first up is the idea that allowing ourselves to experience solitude and boredom, particularly in nature, can rewire our brains and recharge our bodies.

[20:01] Susan Blackwell: I know we have talked about this idea a few times on the podcast, and we are both believers in spending time in nature.

[20:07] Laura Camien: But Suze, this book goes deep.

[20:12] Susan Blackwell: I I won't even get into all of it.

[20:14] Laura Camien: I'm gonna give you some, but I got a level of understanding about this topic that I had not previously reached before.

[20:22] Susan Blackwell: Specifically about being in nature or being bored in nature.

[20:26] Laura Camien: Both.

[20:27] Susan Blackwell: So we know there's benefits to being alone in solitude without technology.

[20:32] Laura Camien: We know that despite all this technology that allows us to stay connected at all times, even with that, nearly 50% of Americans report feeling lonely.

[20:42] Susan Blackwell: Some have even called it a loneliness epidemic.

[20:46] Laura Camien: But it turns out, even though this might seem counterintuitive, one of the best ways to combat loneliness is to spend more time alone.

[20:56] Susan Blackwell: It builds our relationship to ourselves like a deep trusting relationship with yourself.

[21:03] Laura Camien: And it can actually lead to a feeling of never really being alone because you are with yourself.

[21:11] Susan Blackwell: Does that make sense?

[21:12] Laura Camien: It does make sense, but uh my when you said that my eyes went because I was like the antidote potentially to loneliness is practicing being alone.

[21:25] Susan Blackwell: Pretty much.

[21:26] Laura Camien: Think about this.

[21:26] Susan Blackwell: And this all relates to comfort as well.

[21:28] Laura Camien: So when we're like, oh no, I'm by myself, I feel uncomfortable.

[21:33] Susan Blackwell: I need to call someone, I need to go out and do something, I need to be with people.

[21:37] Laura Camien: We're reacting to that discomfort.

[21:40] Susan Blackwell: Instead of what if you could hang with the discomfort and get to the other side of it, you would establish potentially a great relationship with yourself.

[21:52] Laura Camien: And you may find that you know what?

[21:54] Susan Blackwell: Once I can get past a little bit of discomfort, I really like being with me.

[21:59] Laura Camien: I like listening to music or reading a book or dancing in the living room or what have you.

[22:05] Susan Blackwell: I would never know that if the minute that discomfort shows up, I get scared and call someone or do something quick, do something fast.

[22:15] Laura Camien: Yeah, I just uh my mind goes is going to a couple of places.

[22:20] Susan Blackwell: One is something that I learned from a documentary about the human emotion is one of the the greatest predictors of happiness is meaningful connection with other people.

[22:32] Laura Camien: So I my mind goes to that, and I also think about maybe it's all about moderation.

[22:39] Susan Blackwell: It feels like the critical piece is hanging in with yourself long enough to get over the speed bump of discomfort.

[22:48] Laura Camien: That's right.

[22:49] Susan Blackwell: No, we're no cases being made here that we don't need other people or you know, meaningful connections.

[22:55] Laura Camien: Of course we do, but we're specifically addressing the discomfort of being alone.

[23:03] Susan Blackwell: It's funny, I'm a person who meditates so I can sit and be alone.

[23:09] Laura Camien: And but if I'm not doing that, I want to be on my phone, like screens or that boredom thing.

[23:17] Susan Blackwell: I think about it all the time.

[23:18] Laura Camien: You did a spark about it, and you talked about how boredom is good for creativity.

[23:23] Susan Blackwell: Guess what?

[23:24] Laura Camien: I'm about to tell you about it again.

[23:26] Susan Blackwell: It blows my butt off because I'm like, I find my tolerance for it is very low.

[23:32] Laura Camien: It's just uncomfortable.

[23:33] Susan Blackwell: It is uncomfortable.

[23:35] Laura Camien: So all of this, like being alone with yourself can increase your creativity.

[23:42] Susan Blackwell: It can increase your empathy.

[23:44] Laura Camien: And then as it relates to nature, truly being alone in nature without any screens can cause that sense of boredom.

[23:51] Susan Blackwell: Of course, like really get you to that boredom place real quick.

[23:55] Laura Camien: As you said, we talked about this on the podcast.

[23:58] Susan Blackwell: Boredom can be incredible for your brain.

[24:01] Laura Camien: It can increase creativity exponentially.

[24:04] Susan Blackwell: Right now, again, the moment we feel the tiniest bit bored, we reach for that bone. It's got everything, and we're constantly cramming in more input, but we're never letting it rest. Like truly rest. Time in nature will do that. And like I said, in this book, he goes deep. I'm gonna tell you a little bit more. Tip of the iceberg here. But according to Michael Easter's, the famed biologist E.O. Wilson developed a theory called biophilia hypothesis, which says that we have an ingrained call to be in nature that is in direct competition with our desire to control our environment. We want both of these things. Dr. Judson Brewer from the Brown University Medical School, he's a psychiatrist, says if given a choice, human brains are going to say, give me something I can control or predict.

This has to do with survival. Tracking information so we can predict the outcome helps us to survive. But Dr. Wilson's theory goes like this. We evolved in nature and therefore have programmed within our genes a need to be in and connect with nature and living things. And if we don't, we go a little haywire as if we are missing a necessary nutrient in our body, mind, and sense of self. I feel that. I've never thought about this, but this book points out many, many civilizations have built nature into their daily lives as they considered it a necessary ingredient. Or as Wilson says, nature holds the key to our aesthetic, intellectual, cognitive, and even spiritual satisfaction. Think about it.

And they didn't have scientific proof of this, but the Egyptians built a complex network of pleasure gardens. Cyrus the Great in 500 BC commissioned gardens in the capital of Persia to improve the health and the sense of calm in his city. There's a ton of examples in this book, but leave it to Japan to take this to the next level. In the early 1980s, as the country was becoming more urban and tech focused, the country's forest agency created a nature-based wellness program and came up with a marketing term, essentially, Shinrin Yoku, which means forest bathing. And they prompted and promoted this sitting in or walking in the woods and taking in nature. Forest bathing. Since then, the country of Japan has done more than a hundred studies of the effects of time in nature.

Long story short, people who spend about 15 minutes sitting in and then walking through nature expressed all kinds of drops in blood pressure, heart rates, stress hormones, blood sugar, anxiety, depression, and on and on. Truly, there is now so much scientific evidence to support what we just naturally feel. We feel better when we spend time in nature. Of course, you have to go without your phone. This is not let me sit up and look at my phone while sitting in nature. Right. This is being in nature. The University of Michigan discovered that 20 minutes outside three times a week is enough of a dose of nature to reduce the stress hormone cortisol in our bodies. Again, you have to go without your phone.

A neuroscientist named David Strayer at the University of Utah studied the three-day effect, which is a theory that just three days in nature without your cell phone will literally reset your brain. They took groups of kids, like 18 to 22 year olds, I think, into the wilderness for three-day trips. They let them bring their phones, but they did not tell them there will be no cell service where you are going. Oh my god. But you can bring your phones.

[27:55] Laura Camien: Oh.

[27:57] Susan Blackwell: So the kids arrived. But that was a hell of a reveal. Honestly, this made me laugh so hard. The kids arrived, and day one, they would realize that they were not going to be able to post and message and be on their phone. So they went through all the stages of grief. Denial, where they're like walking around, holding their phones into the air, trying to find like it has to be here somewhere. Anger, throwing their phones in their tents, just being pissed about it, bargaining. Can I just drive back to the last town we were in to get a signal? Depression and finally acceptance. And literally, Suze, they were testing the brain waves throughout this whole process. Oh my God. On the first day, their brain waves were beta waves, frenetic type A, go, go, go, go, go brain waves.

By day three, they were coasting along with alpha and theta brain waves, as I'm sure you know. These are the brain waves that you experience when you are an experienced meditator. Huh. Or when you are in flow state. Alpha and theta waves literally reset your brain. They reset your thinking, they fight burnout, they revive you. I want to plan. I talked to Wes. I'm like, uh, we need to plan a just like a little three-day retreat. And I'll tell Suze, I'm not gonna have my phone on. We're just gonna go, we'll bring puzzles, we'll go for walks, we'll do what have you. But seriously, this book made me question like how soon can you get yourself outdoors? Can you bring a journal or your watercolors and just be open to any creative ideas that come to you while you simply bathe in the forest? Forest bathing.

[29:47] Laura Camien: I'm thinking about how I live in a very pastoral setting.

[29:53] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[29:54] Laura Camien: And there are extended periods of time. We've talked about this before that go by with where I don't even think to lift up my head and look out to see the clouds rolling by, the wind moving through the trees.

[30:11] Susan Blackwell: I mean you need it, Suze. It is good for your brain.

[30:15] Laura Camien: I know, but it's insane because literally, if I walked 12 feet and opened a door, I would be not just outside, but it's just like spectacular nature. And I have my head so far up my computer most of the time that I just walk by these picture windows and I just don't even see it.

[30:37] Susan Blackwell: Well, I say we're gonna set some new goals.

[30:40] Laura Camien: It's good for your brain.

[30:42] Susan Blackwell: It's good for your brain.

[30:43] Laura Camien: I believe it. I believe it. I believe it. And I I um I'm just observing myself and how I am failing at this.

[30:51] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[30:52] Laura Camien: Well, I don't want you to feel like a failure because there's opportunity. But let me continue on to some other things. Next up, Michael Easter's delves into how physical challenges and new experiences improve our well-being. Obviously. This was really interesting though. Like this is the thing, like some of the concepts. I'm like, yeah, I know. But his research and his experiences in the Alaskan wilderness is just like, whoa, this was fascinating. There are many societies that build a physical challenge into a cultural rite of passage. And honestly, there's a lot of people that question why we don't have anything at all like this in American culture. And I don't mean these the crazy ones, but I mean even a rite of passage of like doing like habitat for humanity or something like build do a physical challenge, like build a house or whatever.

[31:42] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[31:43] Laura Camien: But I'll give you a few examples of these cultural rites of passage from uh history. So the young men of the Aboriginal people in Australia, these are Australian natives who lived on the continent for like 65,000 years. They would go on what they call a walkabout. They venture out alone into the Australian Outback for up to six months. Now, this is land it is incredibly hard to survive in. The temperature is over 100 degrees every day. The snakes are venomous and among the deadliest in the world. If you do not prepare for your quest by honing your skills and building shelter, hunting and foraging, understanding the plant life, what can be used as medicine, what will kill you, you're not gonna make it back to camp, possibly at all. But if you did make it back, it was understood by everyone that you had grown from the experience, that you were physically and mentally tougher, and that you had a greater understanding of the world and your place in it.

[32:47] Susan Blackwell: The Inuit in Northern Canada have a similar tradition.

[32:52] Laura Camien: When their children were 12 years old, the elders would lead them out into the Arctic for their first hunt, and they'd have to learn all the survival skills as they go. There's also the Masai, a tribe of people who live in Kenya and Tanzania. Their young men were sent into the savannah alone to hunt a male lion with only a spear. Many different Native Americans would go on vision quests. They would go into the mountains alone, unarmed without food, or sometimes or into the desert alone, unarmed without food, and spend about a week in complete solitude. There are some cultures that still have rights of passage. The Dutch have a scouting tradition called dropping, where blindfolded kids are dropped in the woods at night with limited resources and they have to find their way home.

[33:45] Susan Blackwell: Now that reminds me of like um, you know, Boy Scouts or Eagle Scouts.

[33:50] Laura Camien: I think they have some sort of thing that it culminates to called like wilderness survival skills or something to get that badge, but otherwise we don't really have it. He compares all of this with the modern day sort of the, I don't know if it's just in America, but certainly in America, this cultural phenomenon known as helicopter parenting. And he cites the 1990s as the beginning of the helicopter parent in the US, according to a scientist at NYU. They say that that is when a wide swath of parents in the US stopped allowing their children to go outside unsupervised because of a fear of kidnapping. He says it is now turned into snowplow parenting, a term I had not heard before, which describes the way that parents are now literally shoving any obstacles out of their child's path.

[34:45] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[34:45] Laura Camien: The fact is, and of course, remember, we're talking about comfort and discomfort. This is a parent being like, I do not want my child to feel uncomfortably challenged by anything. The fact is all of these rights of passage help forge a strong sense of self, of confidence, of identity. We might think we're helping someone if we help them avoid discomfort or pain, but in actuality, we're limiting their learning and limiting their overall potential. And our overall, you know, our individual potential. There's this phenomenon called toughening theory. Long story short, researchers at the University of Buffalo studied a large group of Americans with a variety of backgrounds, mixed genders. They found in a nutshell that people who have faced some stressors and some challenges in life, not an overwhelming amount, but multiple stressors, maybe a loss of a job, a loss of a loved one, a physical injury.

These people became more resilient. They have an increased self-esteem, they tend to see challenges as opportunities, and frankly, have better life satisfaction overall. Again, I'm not talking about people who've experienced an overwhelming amount of trauma. Just talking about stress and challenges are far better for us than absolute smooth sailing.

[36:07] Laura Camien: I have to say, I agree. I understand the movement and this moment that we're in in time where we're trying to train people not to hurt others and become more aware of their behavior and the things that they say and do that might cause discomfort in other people. But I think that at the same time, we should be preparing people for how to deal with their discomfort. Because imagining a world where we all walk through life and no one ever causes us any discomfort is not realistic. You know, I had this thought the other day. As you just pointed out at the top of the spark, humanity has been rocketed for hundreds of thousands of years. And I was like, in all that time, there has to have been people who made it out that were just like, no, nothing, nothing real bad ever happened.

It was all pretty smooth sailing. And then I was like, no, that couldn't possibly be true. And then I was like, there's a lot of people that have moved through this life. There's a lot of people that have moved through, but also I guess I would question, and so is that the ideal? According to this book, it would not be. I do believe that's true. And another thing I was thinking about this week is, and I was saying of saying to Nathan, my dear sweet Nathan, that some of the most challenging things that I've experienced in life are the things that make me. That's right. And while at the time they were incredibly uncomfortable for extended periods of time, they are now the things that have made me me. So I'm thankful for them.

[37:51] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely. And I think you and I both agree, they're often a place for us to create from.

[37:57] Laura Camien: Yeah. In an effort to heal that, but to help others heal. And I actually do know people who are like, oh, I don't know. Nothing's really happened to me. I don't know what I would write about. And have felt a little sense of like, I wish I had something, you know, some sort of challenge. I would probably argue that if you look deep enough, there are things, there are always things to write about. But in terms of a hero's journey, it's more interesting hero's journey when there is a big boulder in the road. If there's been a dragon, yeah, and you conquer it. Yeah. So I really believe that it is important to learn to grow from our discomfort. And I think it's necessary in order to be a creative person to embrace discomfort. I don't know creative people who don't feel discomfort.

[38:46] Laura Camien: Yeah. That's for sure. So, next up, Michael Easter's talks about how thinking about death and impermanence can make us happier and help us to live more meaningful lives. Now, this is interesting as it relates to discomfort. And Susie, I know, like you've done a whole spark on this talking about the book The Art of Dying Well. This is a topic, and we talk about it a lot, so I'm gonna keep this short because you can find other episodes of The Spark File and maybe more soon to come. Who knows? But I think it's fascinating to know that thinking about death can make us happier people. In his trip into the wilderness, he was literally facing the possibility of death every single day, maybe multiple times a day, like it was uncomfortable.

But if we look to other cultures, they are taught to actively think about their own deaths. So he traveled to the kingdom of Bhutan in the eastern Himalayas, and he learned there that the ashes of the deceased are turned into clay pyramids, put on display in public areas, like death is a part of life, and they embrace it. And studies have shown that Bhutan ranks as one of the happiest countries in the world, really, yes, and it doesn't have anything to do with their comfort of living, like these creature comforts that we all have, yeah. But it actually relates to actively thinking about death and impermanence can make people happier, and here I think artists do have a bit of a leg up. I think that part of what creatives do naturally is examine the meaning of life and death. Not all artists, obviously, but I think we're examining what it means to be human, what mark we want to leave on the world. It is good to know that leaning into that is good for you.

[40:42] Laura Camien: And the last bit of learning I want to highlight from The Comfort Crisis is how important it is to seek out new experiences. And I was just like, come on, here we go. You know, in case I haven't mentioned it on this podcast, my sweet love Wesley did something magical recently that wholeheartedly embraced this theory. Wes enrolled in this three-week course to become a Bob Ross painting instructor. And he took himself out of New York City, went to Muncie, Indiana, where he knew no one. So rad. And he was not an expert in this painting technique. He had tried it a little bit, but he arrives there, and there are people who are like, they've been painting with this painting technique for 20 years.

Wow. So he puts himself in the center of this like completely new environment, completely new people, having to have a beginner's mind every day, having to be like, okay, I am not going to compare my work to their work over and over again. Just keep showing up for three weeks. He learned to paint, and he learned how to teach it. Oh. It was like learning new skills that involved physical coordination, visual, mental coordination, all of the emotions that came up through all of this. And he got certified. He's a Bob Ross instructor. I'm so proud of him.

[42:18] Laura Camien: My mind is blown by what he did. He now has a skill. No one can take that away from you ever. You can't take that experience away. You can't take that skill away. We were talking on the phone yesterday. I guess we were talking over the phone. And I was like, I it's the first time I've heard his voice since he got back. And I was like, hey, how are you doing? And Wes always has a pretty positive sort of disposition. He is. He's a happy being. I was like, oh, this is somebody who has faced beginners mountain a rite of passage and done something extraordinary and come back to tell the tale of it. And I have experienced that firsthand myself as well. When you tackle something like that, that's a really good example of something because it doesn't, you don't have to put yourself into the Arctic wilderness for three months or something.

You can do something like that, which is joyous, but you're gonna be a beginner. You're gonna be a beginner. Yeah. Which is uncomfortable. That is the discomfort. And we're like, because we're constantly avoiding discomfort, we don't think to do these things. So Wes's achievement got me thinking about how often I put myself in an entirely new situation that might scare the crap out of me. And the answer is not often enough. I mean, I've done a fair amount of new stuff in the last few years, but this book has me passionately believing that it's not optional for human growth. And I think for our creativity, I think it's absolutely necessary.

[43:58] Laura Camien: So I'm gonna roll into a little bit of what do we make of it. Okay. I think we immediately consider how comfortable we have gotten in our creative process. Do we notice ourselves avoiding doing anything creatively that feels a little scary or uncomfortable? Or do we let ourselves think about it? In this book, Michael Easter's talks about a Japanese concept called Misogi. Now, in Japanese, it means ritual purification. It might mean, for example, traditionally like sitting in freezing cold water or standing under an icy waterfall to cleanse yourself. Oh my god. Yeah, it goes back a long way, but the underlying belief is that doing something one day a year, doing this ritual one day can profoundly impact the other 364.

It's part of a mental and physical and spiritual renewal. Wow. So the idea of Misogi has inspired a Harvard-trained physician named Dr. Marcus Elliott to adapt this idea. So for him and many, many followers of this idea, they use the term Misogi to refer to using epic challenges, often in nature and often physical, to reset the mind, body, and spirit, and expand your capabilities. They treat it with a lot of honor. They treat it like it's something you do for yourself. You're not to post about it or brag about it. You must truly challenge yourself, really explore your limits, explore that like where are the edges of my comfort zone. And this whole idea of this Misoge, his Masogi was the Alaskan wilderness.

It's woven throughout the book. And in particular, like I said, he really focuses on our physical comfort. But I kept thinking time and time again how this pertains to our creativity. What if we push ourselves to explore those areas where we don't feel comfortable? Like something as simple as, you know, being asked to draw a picture with our left hand or write a haiku if you're right-handed, sorry, or your right hand if you're left-handed. Or write a haiku in two minutes. Like if you instantly feel discomfort, you found your edge. Wow. Your edges right there.

[46:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So we can make a habit out of doing small things that get us out of our comfort zone. That's great. We can also challenge ourselves with a creative Misogi once per year. Something big. His rules for a Masogi are one, it has to be really hard with only a 50% chance of success. And two, you can't die. In other words, it has to be relatively safe. So this isn't about like, you know, jumping out of a plane kind of risk taking. It could be that, but it is not about like 50% chance of living or dying. It is about just, you know, it's okay to not succeed if you push yourself and found your boundary. He says the idea is if you have picked an appropriately hard task, you're going to hit a point where you think you cannot keep going, where you have reached your edge.

But if you are able to keep going, you are going to have a moment where you can look back and say, huh, I thought my edge was back there, but now I'm clearly past it. So I've sold myself short here. And that leads to the bigger question, which is I've sold myself short here. Where else in my life am I selling myself short?

[48:03] Susan Blackwell: So what if we embarked on creative Masogis each year? You could choose something new that like would make you feel uncomfortable and see if you can even like enjoy the discomfort. How far can you push yourself? Take a cooking class, learn a new language, immerse yourself in a different culture, join a roller derby club, become a nude model for an art class, take an improv class, solo travel to a new place and figure it out. Create a silent writing retreat for yourself and see how you do. Any, like please send in more ideas. I'll take all the ideas because I'm pretty certain what I want to do once a year is set a creative Masogi for myself and just keep expanding as a human being and keep expanding as a creative.

All of it is going to stretch our personal limits and stretch our creative limits. But it requires that you let yourself be a beginner, let yourself be bad at it. Who cares? Just be bad at it. It's fine. You're gonna survive. It's not life or death. Fuck around and find out. Like you just might realize you are capable of so much more than you allow yourself to be right now.

[49:25] Laura Camien: Now, baby Camps, when you were giving that list out, yeah. You were saying this, a little bit of that, and you gestured to yourself when you said like roller derby. Suze, you know, I think I mentioned this a long time. Like I wish I would have done this younger when I was younger. I don't think I can do it now only because I think it would be dangerous to my back. But I fucking love roller derby. And I think it would be so much fun, and I think I would have been good at it. Yeah. Like you know, like when I'm playing cards and I turn into like super competitive. I feel like in roller derby, that's an asset, and you like want people on your team who are like, they're a beast. Yeah, they're gonna take you down. Yeah. I think I would have done that. So what's with those things that you listed, or maybe something that you didn't say, is there something that you have in your mind already that you would want to tackle?

[50:19] Susan Blackwell: Um, I've been wanting to take a drawing class. I've not, I have never studied drawing at all. And I've been thinking about that. Um doing improv, which I have done, but it's been a long fucking time. That would scare me in a fun way. I have not done that, and that is something I've been meaning to do literally for decades. Yeah. But I think it's so scary to me.

[50:46] Laura Camien: Yeah, it's scary. But it is the best training in who cares? Okay, so that moment, a moment ago wasn't funny. I'm on to the next. I can't obsess with the next moment, you know. You know, I can't obsess. It's such a great lesson in so many things. You know, this is an amazing spark. And as you were talking, I was like, oh man, on one hand, I feel like we it could be argued that we you and I are like trying new stuff.

[51:17] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[51:18] Laura Camien: All the time. All the time. All the time. And we don't have time for it to be uncomfortable. But it does sometimes we'll be like, okay, this feels uncomfortable. But clock's ticking. Here we go.

[51:28] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[51:29] Laura Camien: So we do that. But then I think about things like cold water plunges.

[51:33] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[51:34] Laura Camien: Yes. Delora, that is to me, I'm just like, I don't want to do that. And I've had the health benefits and the emotional benefits of that explained to me by people who do it.

[51:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[51:46] Laura Camien: I don't even want to do like the cold water rinse at the end of a shower. You know what, Suze? I think that's okay. I think that's like that's not that one's not for you then.

[51:58] Susan Blackwell: I think that it should be something that, like in the back of your mind has like tink tink on your I think the improv class is that for me.

[52:06] Laura Camien: Yeah, for sure. Um, but I also, as you were talking, I was like, these days, like in the last few months, I have observed myself where Laura, if you our house is a total disaster area right now because we have renovations going on all over the place. But if you look at the things that I have accumulated, it's all about comfort. It's like puffy, big, soft, puffy sweaters and big puffy vests, and like puffy slippers. And I am just like, I'm a comfort holic right now.

[52:45] Susan Blackwell: And so this spark is it's really challenging.

[52:49] Laura Camien: You feel called out.

[52:51] Susan Blackwell: Listen, I think that it is fine to be comfortable. It's fine to winter. It's fine to all those things. It's just like you said, it's everything in moderation. We don't have to be living in the Alaskan wilderness, challenging ourselves like in life or death situations daily. But I do think that like once a year or once every so often to ask yourself, what's a growth opportunity for me?

[53:21] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[53:21] Susan Blackwell: That might expand the way, like you know, I don't cook. I mean, I don't cook. I don't cook so much that like I get nervous around people who do, and they'll just be like, Can you chop that onion? And I'm like, I don't remember how to chop an onion.

[53:36] Laura Camien: What?

[53:37] Susan Blackwell: I've observed it.

[53:38] Laura Camien: Yes.

[53:41] Susan Blackwell: You came to our house, and my mom was like, Can you just uh butter these pieces of bread? We're making garlic bread. Will you just like put some butter on each piece of bread? And that's sort of like, will you tell me uh I just want to do it exactly the way you want? I think it is because well, I won't name names, but I have been highly criticized, like when I was younger, and it was like I was shamed for except I was young, I was you know, 16, but someone like completely shamed me for not knowing certain things in the kitchen, and you're like, bye.

[54:17] Laura Camien: It wasn't a partner, it was a family.

[54:20] Susan Blackwell: I couldn't, I couldn't be to the kitchen.

[54:21] Laura Camien: I mean bye to the kitchen, like when we like bye to the kitchen, bye to the kitchen, yeah.

[54:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, so a cooking thing would might be good for you.

[54:29] Laura Camien: A cooking thing would scare me and would be super fun.

[54:31] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Will you say the word again?

[54:33] Laura Camien: An annual misogy.

[54:35] Susan Blackwell: Misogee.

[54:36] Laura Camien: M-I-S-O-G-I. The word has been, you know, has evolved to mean other things and now we'll evolve it further to call it a creative Missogee.

[54:48] Susan Blackwell: Well, I don't want to culturally appropriate, but I do I love the idea.

[54:53] Laura Camien: Call it what you will, but I do love the idea, you know, now that the world has reopened and the spark file gets back together for retreats and things like that, to have a day of creative discomfort. Here's the tricky thing though. I feel like every person it's going to be different.

[55:13] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[55:14] Laura Camien: What's uncomfortable for me will not be uncomfortable for you, and vice versa.

[55:19] Susan Blackwell: Well, that's why it's not a misogynist in that we're not standing under an icy waterfall.

[55:26] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[55:27] Susan Blackwell: But it should be personal.

[55:29] Laura Camien: It is spiritual renewal.

[55:32] Susan Blackwell: It's renewal. And we're just choosing to do it in a creative way. But you it's not one size fits all.

[55:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[55:40] Susan Blackwell: And it's not to be, it's not even for public consumption. It's like between you and you.

[55:46] Laura Camien: Yeah, I love that.

[55:48] Susan Blackwell: And I also love the idea of these I this is why I love this fucking podcast. I love the this now. I will carry these this challenge with me to note when I am feeling and subsequently rushing to avoid discomfort and see if I can just be like, why don't you hang in?

[56:10] Laura Camien: I feel like this is a theme on this podcast.

[56:13] Susan Blackwell: Why don't you just hang in and just look at the sky? Or you know, just sit still and hang with that discomfort.

[56:23] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[56:23] Susan Blackwell: I want to say that Cesare A. Cruz said, art should disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed.

[56:33] Laura Camien: I agree with that.

[56:35] Susan Blackwell: And I say let's push through our discomfort so that we can create things that heal and comfort others.

[56:44] Laura Camien: All right, Sparker.

[56:48] Susan Blackwell: Let's do it.

[56:49] Laura Camien: Let's do it.

[56:50] Susan Blackwell: And say the name of the book again.

[56:51] Laura Camien: The comfort crisis.

[56:53] Susan Blackwell: The comfort crisis by Michael Easter's.

[56:57] Laura Camien: That is correct.

[56:58] Susan Blackwell: Thanks for that spark, Alex.

[57:00] Laura Camien: And thank you, and fuck you.

[57:02] Susan Blackwell: Now I have to face it.

[57:04] Laura Camien: You have to face the discomfort, but you in little and big ways.

[57:08] Susan Blackwell: We do it, we do do it all the time.

[57:10] Laura Camien: And I do that. Part of like our coursework is really about, and we've said it before, it is about normalizing what that discomfort feels like in our body as it relates to creativity and uh being able to hang with it.

[57:27] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, and just training yourself that it's tolerable and it does yield beautiful things.

[57:34] Laura Camien: It sure does.

[57:35] Susan Blackwell: Oh Laura, thank you for the spark.

[57:38] Laura Camien: You're welcome.

[57:39] Susan Blackwell: I learned so much today.

[57:41] Laura Camien: You're welcome. There's so much more in the book, friends.

[57:44] Susan Blackwell: I am telling you, there's so much more.

[57:46] Laura Camien: All right. The comfort crisis, Michael Easter's.

[57:49] Susan Blackwell: Get into it.

[57:50] Laura Camien: Oh, Miss Soogee.

[57:52] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[57:54] Laura Camien: So I think that's it.

[57:55] Susan Blackwell: I think you're right. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape people. And as always, we hope to put another bunch of sparks in your file. If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, unless it makes me uncomfortable.

[58:09] Laura Camien: Or if you send those in.

[58:11] Susan Blackwell: Send those in especially. If you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life, you can email us at thesparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[58:24] Laura Camien: We'll even take your feedback. But you know the price of admission.

[58:29] Susan Blackwell: First, we expect you to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[58:35] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at the Sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast.

[58:42] Susan Blackwell: It really does help other listeners to find us.

[58:44] Laura Camien: Also, if you like this podcast, we hope that you will share it with people that you love.

[58:48] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, we are gonna Masogi you.

[58:52] Laura Camien: We're gonna put you under a freezing waterfall.

[58:56] Susan Blackwell: And that shelf.

[59:00] Laura Camien: It's not punitive.

[59:01] Susan Blackwell: It's not punitive at all.

[59:03] Laura Camien: No, not at all. If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[59:13] Susan Blackwell: It is your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[59:19] Laura Camien: Oh friends, you know you gotta take it and make it by friends.

[59:28] Susan Blackwell: What's your Masogi gonna be?

[59:30] Laura Camien: It's a secret.

[59:32] Susan Blackwell: When I bope into something that inspires me, I dump it in my spark files.

[59:42] Laura Camien: Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[59:47] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark files.

[59:51] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark files.

[59:56] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark fire.