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[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Laura Camien: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark file.

[0:23] Laura Camien: Spark file.

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark file.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:47] Laura Camien: If you're an OG listener, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:50] Susan Blackwell: If you're joining us for the first time, you should know that everybody's welcome here.

[0:53] Laura Camien: Whether you have put your creativity on pause during this time or you've clung to it like a lifeline, either way, welcome.

[1:00] Susan Blackwell: But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:03] Laura Camien: Where do I get one?

[1:05] Susan Blackwell: What do I file in it?

[1:06] Laura Camien: These are such good questions, listener.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: And we have got answers.

[1:10] Laura Camien: We do.

[1:11] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and your fascinations.

[1:18] Laura Camien: And here's the deal.

[1:19] Susan Blackwell: We are makers who make all kinds of things.

[1:22] Laura Camien: Mm-hmm.

[1:22] Susan Blackwell: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you just want to be making stuff all the time, you know that the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry, especially now.

[1:33] Laura Camien: But don't despair.

[1:34] Susan Blackwell: We're here for you, and we are on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity.

[1:42] Laura Camien: Things that inspire us to get up off our asses and make things like this podcast.

[1:47] Susan Blackwell: Or an even deeper dive into the recesses of your brains.

[1:55] Laura Camien: Every episode, we're gonna reach into the spark file and exchange some sparks.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:03] Laura Camien: And if you're not careful, you might just balance your noggin.

[2:07] Susan Blackwell: So without further ado, let's open up the Sparks file.

[2:13] Laura Camien: I think we should acknowledge Sparks Day.

[2:17] Susan Blackwell: It's Sparks Day.

[2:18] Laura Camien: It's Sparks Day.

[2:19] Susan Blackwell: And I was explaining to Nathan this morning.

[2:22] Laura Camien: I was saying this is all relevant to what we're about to discuss, but I was like, why I think Sparks Day is my favorite day.

[2:31] Susan Blackwell: Oh, oh, please say it.

[2:35] Laura Camien: I could guess.

[2:36] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[2:37] Laura Camien: Well, I'll we'll say it in just a second.

[2:39] Susan Blackwell: Okay, okay.

[2:40] Laura Camien: But I don't want to, you know, jump my own spark.

[2:42] Susan Blackwell: Don't jump your shark spark.

[2:44] Laura Camien: Spark shark.

[2:45] Susan Blackwell: To just quickly acknowledge we're continuing our experiment, and we're gonna do, I'm gonna spark Laura this episode, and she's gonna smark me back next episode.

[2:55] Laura Camien: Spark back.

[2:56] Susan Blackwell: You know, smack me across the face and smark me back next episode.

[3:01] Laura Camien: Yes, I am, and also just want to acknowledge there's a little work that's happening outside of Laura's house.

[3:07] Susan Blackwell: So if you hear chainsaws, know that it's just the gardeners, it's not people that are trying to kill Laura Camien.

[3:15] Laura Camien: I'm not in danger, they're not coming for her.

[3:17] Susan Blackwell: What is that movie?

[3:18] Laura Camien: What is the chain?

[3:19] Susan Blackwell: It's a Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[3:22] Laura Camien: So this is not the Florida Chainsaw Massacre.

[3:25] Susan Blackwell: That's not what is happening.

[3:27] Laura Camien: No, it definitely not.

[3:29] Susan Blackwell: You know, every time a podcaster says, I just have to acknowledge there's construction sounds in the background, I can never hear it.

[3:36] Laura Camien: So let's not make a big deal about it.

[3:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, we won't make a fuss.

[3:41] Laura Camien: Listen, we're gonna dive right in because we are my character one part of my brain is like we are on a schedule.

[3:47] Susan Blackwell: We gotta go.

[3:49] Laura Camien: But listen, hurry up and relax.

[3:51] Susan Blackwell: Hurry up and have fun.

[3:56] Laura Camien: Hurry up and relax, Zeus.

[3:58] Susan Blackwell: You've got to relax now.

[3:59] Laura Camien: It's funny because it's true, Susan Blackwell.

[4:02] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[4:04] Laura Camien: Uh Susan, you know this because I had to give you a little bit of a heads up.

[4:08] Susan Blackwell: I have a first for you all today.

[4:11] Laura Camien: I have to say, I was so seized by the spark that I did around the brain of Jill Bolte Taylor.

[4:18] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[4:19] Laura Camien: I couldn't put it down.

[4:21] Susan Blackwell: And you've actually witnessed this in real time, Cam.

[4:24] Laura Camien: I feel like I bring this up every 15 minutes.

[4:29] Susan Blackwell: We'll talking to each other.

[4:31] Laura Camien: We're talking to clients.

[4:32] Susan Blackwell: We're talking to our creativity coaches.

[4:34] Laura Camien: You're not alone.

[4:35] Susan Blackwell: If you don't bring it up, I'll bring it up.

[4:38] Laura Camien: It's so good.

[4:39] Susan Blackwell: I can't stop with it.

[4:41] Laura Camien: So now that we should say though, if you haven't listened to the episode from two weeks ago that is titled The Brain of Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, then you should probably listen to that one first.

[4:55] Susan Blackwell: Is that right?

[4:56] Laura Camien: If you want, I'm gonna give you a little like quick update, but it's really good.

[5:01] Susan Blackwell: So if you want to go back and listen to it, you can.

[5:03] Laura Camien: If you don't, then I'll catch up.

[5:05] Susan Blackwell: That's okay, too.

[5:06] Laura Camien: Okay.

[5:06] Susan Blackwell: But now that JBT, Jill Bolte Taylor has sparked this awareness in me.

[5:11] Laura Camien: I really do see the clear application of her work in so many places.

[5:16] Susan Blackwell: I see it in my own brain.

[5:18] Laura Camien: I see it in the way it functions in relationships with other people.

[5:21] Susan Blackwell: I see it in the way that you and I interact with each other, Laura, the way we interact with our partners, our family, our friends.

[5:27] Laura Camien: I see it in my dogs.

[5:30] Susan Blackwell: I see it in our clients.

[5:32] Laura Camien: I see it in plays.

[5:33] Susan Blackwell: I see it, I hear it in lyrics.

[5:35] Laura Camien: I see I see it so clearly in characters on film.

[5:39] Susan Blackwell: I see it in characters on the TV show I'm on.

[5:42] Laura Camien: I see it in the actors I work with and the crew.

[5:44] Susan Blackwell: And essentially, I see it everywhere.

[5:47] Laura Camien: Everywhere.

[5:48] Susan Blackwell: And it just really has captured my imagination, which on one hand is great, and I love it, and I love being lit up by new learning.

[5:57] Laura Camien: But I knew that I had to turn my attention to other sparks, but I couldn't stop myself from going back to it.

[6:04] Susan Blackwell: And I thought, well, why the fuck not?

[6:06] Laura Camien: Who says I have to move on?

[6:07] Susan Blackwell: This is our podcast.

[6:08] Laura Camien: That's right.

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: We make the rules, god damn it.

[6:11] Laura Camien: Whatever's sparking you.

[6:12] Susan Blackwell: So that's right.

[6:13] Laura Camien: So I said, I decided if I wanted to spend more time on the spark, then I was gonna do it.

[6:17] Susan Blackwell: And in the words of Walt Whitman, swim on, little spark to pus ever deeper into this sea of sparks.

[6:25] Laura Camien: Walt Whitman did not say that.

[6:28] Susan Blackwell: I swear to God, he did not say that.

[6:31] Laura Camien: He had nothing to do with that.

[6:34] Susan Blackwell: Swim on, little spark to pus ever deeper into the sea of sparks.

[6:38] Laura Camien: I think he did.

[6:39] Susan Blackwell: Uh I think he said that, Laura.

[6:41] Laura Camien: So, Cam, are you down with this little extension to our experiment?

[6:45] Susan Blackwell: I'm going to double spark you.

[6:48] Laura Camien: Uh double spark it up because I have not stopped thinking about it.

[6:51] Susan Blackwell: As you know, I ordered the books.

[6:53] Laura Camien: I ordered both The Whole Brain Living and her um stroke of insight.

[6:59] Susan Blackwell: My stroke of insight.

[7:01] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[7:01] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[7:02] Laura Camien: So I'm loving it.

[7:04] Susan Blackwell: I appreciate your support.

[7:05] Laura Camien: I'm excited.

[7:06] Susan Blackwell: Since the last time we recorded, I have continued to read and listen, and I filled in some gaps in my understanding.

[7:13] Laura Camien: And I'll just say, Jill Bolte Taylor, if by any chance you're listening to this and you ever want to be a guest on this podcast, I still have questions.

[7:21] Susan Blackwell: I feel like I've I've studied this work as in so much as she has presented it, I've studied it, and I still have questions.

[7:31] Laura Camien: But you know, maybe I'll note those in this episode.

[7:34] Susan Blackwell: So I'm I will probably have more as well.

[7:37] Laura Camien: And yeah, Dr. Bolte Taylor, please.

[7:40] Susan Blackwell: Please join us.

[7:41] Laura Camien: For the love of God.

[7:43] Susan Blackwell: For the love of God, join us.

[7:46] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[7:46] Susan Blackwell: So let me, I'd like, without further ado, I'd like to present my second spark on this topic, the brain of Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, part two, electric boogaloo.

[7:57] Laura Camien: Um, if you didn't want to go back and listen to that earlier episode, I'm gonna give you if you just want to keep riding this crazy train.

[8:05] Susan Blackwell: I'm gonna recap this for you.

[8:06] Laura Camien: Jill Bolte Taylor, aka JBT is a brain scientist who experienced her own stroke in 1996.

[8:14] Susan Blackwell: She remained lucid throughout the stroke, and because she's a brain scientist, she was able to understand and share about her experience with remarkable clarity and insight, which she did in her 2008 TED Talk and via her book, My Stroke of Insight, A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey, now sitting on Laura Camien's desk.

[8:33] Laura Camien: But as popular as her TED Talk was, it actually made her and TED famous.

[8:38] Susan Blackwell: She still felt it was a miss because her aim was to get people to understand what JBT had learned during her stroke journey.

[8:47] Laura Camien: We all have access to a deep reservoir of peace, which resides in the right slash feeling area of our brain, and we are all interconnected on an energetic level.

[8:57] Susan Blackwell: And as such, we want to be treating each other with reverence.

[9:02] Laura Camien: What she learned was that while people began treating her with great reverence, they didn't seem to be treating each other like the magnificent interconnected creatures that we all are.

[9:11] Susan Blackwell: So she set about to rectify this situation by writing her second book, Whole Brain Living, The Anatomy of Choice, and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life.

[9:21] Laura Camien: In that book, she provides incredibly detailed research and science-based insight on the four major areas of our brains and the thoughts and feelings those areas produce.

[9:33] Susan Blackwell: And further, she provides instructions on how to bring awareness to those thoughts and feelings to strengthen our sense of choice around which part of the brain, aka characters, she calls them characters, these different parts of our brains, which character is the most useful driver in any given situation, and how much freedom and peace can be attained via this awareness.

[9:54] Laura Camien: So that's your recap.

[9:56] Susan Blackwell: Amazing.

[9:57] Laura Camien: What I want to do today is to go a bit deeper on the four characters as JBT defines them and see how they relate to our creativity.

[10:07] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yes, yes.

[10:09] Laura Camien: And before I do this, I just have to say per the use, I'm still scratching the surface here.

[10:15] Susan Blackwell: JBT's work and her book, Whole Brain Living, goes so deep, crazy deep.

[10:22] Laura Camien: Like just when you think she can't go deeper, deeper she goes, dive deeper, little spark to pus.

[10:29] Susan Blackwell: She provides historical context.

[10:32] Laura Camien: She views this work through the lens of addiction and mental illness.

[10:36] Susan Blackwell: She views these parts of our brain when they interact with the brains of others.

[10:40] Laura Camien: How her work speaks to the work that precedes her, like Carl Jung's four major archetypes of the unconscious mind, how it correlates with the hero's journey.

[10:50] Susan Blackwell: Her work is it's really, really thorough and it's very deep.

[10:55] Laura Camien: And again, even though I'm going to be doing part two electric boogaloo, I'm still scratching the surface of the tip of the Sparkberg.

[11:02] Susan Blackwell: So get that book, y'all.

[11:04] Laura Camien: Oh learn, learn from the master, Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor.

[11:08] Susan Blackwell: Amazing.

[11:08] Laura Camien: So you ready, CamS?

[11:10] Susan Blackwell: I'm so ready.

[11:11] Laura Camien: I'm so excited.

[11:12] Susan Blackwell: Listeners, are you ready?

[11:14] Laura Camien: We're ready.

[11:15] Susan Blackwell: Okay, great.

[11:15] Laura Camien: Very excited, too.

[11:17] Susan Blackwell: So I want to reintroduce you all to the four characters or introduce you for the first time, maybe.

[11:23] Laura Camien: And as I mentioned, JBT recommends that you take some time to name each of these characters so that you can really identify them as distinct when they start producing thoughts and feelings.

[11:34] Susan Blackwell: So as I share these lists with you, consider that you might want to take some notes and maybe play with naming of each of these characters in your brain.

[11:45] Laura Camien: I will tell you, Susan, I have done some of my naming, but I have not settled on all my naming.

[11:50] Susan Blackwell: So I've been contemplating my naming, but also have not committed entirely to the names.

[11:57] Laura Camien: I have found titling things, anything that you make, is either the easiest thing in the world and it comes just like that.

[12:04] Susan Blackwell: Yep.

[12:04] Laura Camien: Or it is ponderous.

[12:06] Susan Blackwell: I agree so so wholeheartedly.

[12:10] Laura Camien: I agree completely.

[12:11] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[12:12] Laura Camien: So part of the I'm about half done here, but maybe maybe by the end of this podcast, I'll be done.

[12:18] Susan Blackwell: Okay, here we go.

[12:19] Laura Camien: Let's start with character one, left brain thinking.

[12:25] Susan Blackwell: So this is the left hemisphere of your brain.

[12:29] Laura Camien: This is the thinking part of your brain.

[12:31] Susan Blackwell: She calls this character one.

[12:33] Laura Camien: And here is a little recap.

[12:36] Susan Blackwell: This part of our brain is past and future based.

[12:40] Laura Camien: It thinks linearly and analytically.

[12:43] Susan Blackwell: It is verbal.

[12:44] Laura Camien: It thinks in language.

[12:46] Susan Blackwell: It focuses on details.

[12:48] Laura Camien: It seeks differences.

[12:50] Susan Blackwell: It is judgmental, punctual, individual, concise, precise, and fixed.

[12:57] Laura Camien: It is busy.

[12:58] Susan Blackwell: It is all about structure and order.

[13:01] Laura Camien: It is individuated and focused on me.

[13:05] Susan Blackwell: And it's a perfectionist.

[13:08] Laura Camien: So what a doozy.

[13:10] Susan Blackwell: That's where our um perfectionism lives.

[13:13] Laura Camien: And when you say busy, I'm just like, and this is like when we talk about the attention economy and the um productivity economy of like push, push, push.

[13:25] Susan Blackwell: This is character one.

[13:26] Laura Camien: Capitalism, baby.

[13:27] Susan Blackwell: Capitalism is really appealing to this character.

[13:31] Laura Camien: That's like the busier I am, the better I am as a human being.

[13:36] Susan Blackwell: And I'm better than you, frankly, because I'm also judgmental.

[13:39] Laura Camien: Yeah, I work.

[13:40] Susan Blackwell: Superiority, it's very high hierarchical.

[13:43] Laura Camien: So it understands like who's above me, who's below me.

[13:46] Susan Blackwell: So yes.

[13:47] Laura Camien: But when we talk about people at work who like are trying to win the suffering trophy, like I worked longer hours more than anyone else.

[13:55] Susan Blackwell: This is character one.

[13:56] Laura Camien: That seems to me like a combo platter, actually, of character one and character uh two, who is the suffering piece.

[14:04] Susan Blackwell: And the character one is like, did I win?

[14:04] Laura Camien: Did I win?

[14:08] Susan Blackwell: I think.

[14:09] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[14:09] Susan Blackwell: Sometimes when I uh sometimes I make these um assumptions or extrapolations on her work, and and I've I'm guessing.

[14:18] Laura Camien: I'm guessing here.

[14:19] Susan Blackwell: So that's like a question I would have.

[14:21] Laura Camien: Mark that down, Dr. Bolte Taylor.

[14:24] Laura Camien: What do we do with the suffering trophy?

[14:25] Susan Blackwell: Okay, great.

[14:26] Laura Camien: Where does the suffering trophy live in our brains?

[14:29] Susan Blackwell: So have you any thoughts about what you might name this character, Cams?

[14:33] Laura Camien: Not yet. I keep tripping myself on something you said last time, which was this part of our brain is like peanut-sized.

[14:42] Susan Blackwell: Is that this part of the brain or the whole, all of these peanuts?

[14:45] Laura Camien: All of these, all of these. Are they the, it's just a little cluster of cells that are producing these different character pieces in our brain.

[14:56] Susan Blackwell: Okay, great.

[14:56] Laura Camien: Okay.

[14:57] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[14:57] Laura Camien: So I kind of got stuck on this idea of like a peanut gallery.

[15:01] Susan Blackwell: But then I'm like, I don't think that's gonna suit.

[15:03] Laura Camien: That doesn't, because it applies to all of them.

[15:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[15:06] Laura Camien: So TBD. Also, my understanding of the anatomy.

[15:10] Susan Blackwell: Sometimes when JBT talks about the anatomy of it all, I'm just like, dooty do do, because I just can't picture it.

[15:17] Laura Camien: And I just, it's just sort of washes over me.

[15:21] Susan Blackwell: But it could, it's possible that there could be like four little peanuts.

[15:26] Laura Camien: You know what I mean?

[15:28] Susan Blackwell: Like the left amygdala, the right amygdala are two different peanuts.

[15:34] Laura Camien: Yes, dooty do.

[15:36] Susan Blackwell: Yes, it just, you know.

[15:38] Laura Camien: It's numbers, science, history.

[15:41] Susan Blackwell: I just go, I just go do do.

[15:43] Laura Camien: I have a confession because all my life, like writing reports and whatnot in school.

[15:49] Susan Blackwell: When I get to names, my brain will go do.

[15:53] Laura Camien: And I'll come back, because I just think like I'll come back and get and pick up that name.

[15:56] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[15:57] Laura Camien: Like writing a report.

[15:58] Susan Blackwell: And numbers as well, dooty doo.

[16:03] Laura Camien: And so I'm just laughing that that is your description of it because I've never quite named what's happening in my brain when I skip over stuff.

[16:12] Susan Blackwell: A little figure of flute music plays in my brain.

[16:14] Laura Camien: It's just doo-doo doo doo doo doo doo. It just skips right over it.

[16:17] Susan Blackwell: But so I don't think I have a good answer to your question. I think for my, the question I asked you, I think I am sticking with all business Susan, aka A B S.

[16:28] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[16:29] Susan Blackwell: Used in a sentence. I'm not trying to be a fun buster, but ABS wants us to get this done and get to bed on time so we can get enough sleep to wake up rested and get back to work early tomorrow morning.

[16:39] Laura Camien: That is so ABS.

[16:41] Susan Blackwell: Of course, ABS wants that. And I just want to, if I, if you didn't catch it before, fully admit this is the dominant piece of my brain.

[16:52] Laura Camien: Well, I think for so many of us, Seuss, it, it, I think again, to go back to like because capitalism, because of the world we live in, this is how a lot of us attribute our success to this.

[17:07] Susan Blackwell: So if we've built this up, it's that part that's difficult to let go of because it's like, oh God, but if I stop working this hard, that working this hard is what got me to where I am.

[17:18] Laura Camien: I can't like relinquish, I can't get out of this part of my brain for fear of terrible consequences.

[17:27] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[17:28] Laura Camien: Like drifting off into fun land.

[17:30] Susan Blackwell: It all sounds great, but this part of our brain is gonna be like, but you need to be rational and reasonable.

[17:37] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[17:38] Susan Blackwell: If you want to, you know, keep a roof over your head.

[17:40] Laura Camien: Again, Nathan and I were talking about this this morning, and we were laying in bed, and I was like, as much as I can be frustrated that this part of my brain is so strengthened that it always wants to run the show.

[17:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I was like, look around you.

[17:57] Laura Camien: Everything you see.

[17:59] Susan Blackwell: Well, no, not everything you see, but much of what you see is the result of the work of character one.

[18:05] Laura Camien: That is right.

[18:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[18:07] Laura Camien: That's right.

[18:07] Susan Blackwell: So it's not everything, yeah, but much of it.

[18:09] Laura Camien: And also, I do wonder.

[18:12] Susan Blackwell: I this is another question for Dr.

[18:14] Laura Camien: Uh Bolte Taylor.

[18:15] Susan Blackwell: Each character, is it part of their nature to try to convince you that they are the most important and the most useful part of your brain?

[18:23] Laura Camien: Because it definitely seems like character one would do that.

[18:27] Susan Blackwell: Like, I am the person for the job. I can get us through this.

[18:31] Laura Camien: And because they work in language and they're so organized, they would run a great campaign.

[18:36] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[18:37] Laura Camien: They would.

[18:38] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[18:39] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[18:40] Susan Blackwell: Very convincing.

[18:41] Laura Camien: I think it really depends on how you're wired, because I have known people who are like more straight up character twos or more dominant character threes, etc.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: And they make a great case for or aren't even making a case.

[18:59] Laura Camien: They're just like, I'm, I'm JK living over here. I don't need to give a few of anything.

[19:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[19:05] Laura Camien: Yeah, so true.

[19:06] Susan Blackwell: And I wonder if that's like those parts of our brains don't win out as much because they don't, they don't campaign to say, let me be in charge.

[19:14] Laura Camien: So I'm, I'm intrigued.

[19:16] Susan Blackwell: I just thought of a great name for a character one.

[19:18] Laura Camien: And this is a spark I'm not gonna use.

[19:21] Susan Blackwell: Tracy Flick.

[19:22] Laura Camien: Oh my God, yes.

[19:25] Susan Blackwell: Tracy Flick would be amazing.

[19:28] Laura Camien: Run a good campaign.

[19:30] Susan Blackwell: Okay. We have to keep moving, or we're just okay.

[19:33] Laura Camien: We're not going to be able to cover this all.

[19:34] Susan Blackwell: But so let's move into character two.

[19:36] Laura Camien: This is left brain emotional.

[19:39] Susan Blackwell: This is a part of our brain that developed long before we began thinking.

[19:44] Laura Camien: And this part of our brain has been keeping us safe from the jump.

[19:48] Susan Blackwell: And by jump, I mean like prehistoric times.

[19:52] Laura Camien: It is, well, it's also past and future based.

[19:56] Susan Blackwell: Specifically, this character speaks up for our hurts from the past and wants to keep us from getting hurt in the future.

[20:03] Laura Camien: It is fearful and cautious.

[20:05] Susan Blackwell: It experiences grief and pain.

[20:07] Laura Camien: It is stern, rigid, constricted, righteous, critical.

[20:12] Susan Blackwell: It loves conditionally.

[20:14] Laura Camien: It is doubtful and skeptical, manipulative, bullying, selfish.

[20:19] Susan Blackwell: She sounds like a real charmer.

[20:21] Laura Camien: Worrying, complaining, a victim of circumstance, helpless to getting its needs met.

[20:28] Susan Blackwell: It might be bold, loud, and biting or self-loathing, silent, pitiful, passive aggressive, awkward.

[20:37] Laura Camien: It's misery that loves other miserable company.

[20:40] Susan Blackwell: Oh this was something that JBT said that I thought was interesting.

[20:44] Laura Camien: Tried and true and independent.

[20:47] Susan Blackwell: And I understood the independent part because it is a very individuated me, me, me, not an us as us part of the brain.

[20:55] Laura Camien: But tried and true, I think that means it sticks to the known and sticks to what has worked in the past, potentially.

[21:02] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[21:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:03] Susan Blackwell: Um that makes sense.

[21:04] Laura Camien: It is an either or part of our brain who works in those concepts like superior, inferior, right, wrong, good, bad.

[21:11] Susan Blackwell: So it's very sort of black and white in that way.

[21:14] Laura Camien: Our character twos tend to explode onto the scene instantly and powerfully and bring with them negative feelings in our gut, a furrow in our brow, and an aggressive tone in our voice, which leads me to extrapolate.

[21:27] Susan Blackwell: It's not the most nuanced or developed part of our mind.

[21:31] Laura Camien: This is a, this is an older part of the brain that developed much, much earlier than the thinking part of our brain.

[21:45] Susan Blackwell: We are feeling beings who think because our feelings developed first, our thinking developed subsequently.

[21:53] Laura Camien: So this is a very feeling part of our brain.

[21:55] Susan Blackwell: What were we gonna say, Cammies?

[21:57] Laura Camien: Well, I was gonna say that I feel as though I have experienced people who have a very highly developed character too.

[22:05] Susan Blackwell: And it may come from, you know, spending a lot of time there and re-treading the past.

[22:12] Laura Camien: So as, yeah, you know, that yeah, if you keep sewing that ground and recycling it for fear for the future, and I also wonder, you know, the way that politics is working in our country at the moment and the media, our desire for fear, like to scare ourselves with the potential for terrible things to happen in the future, we gravitate towards it.

[22:38] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[22:38] Laura Camien: And I wonder if that is making our character twos, you know, giving us more time in those places.

[22:47] Susan Blackwell: I think that there are whole businesses, media conglomerates that are organized around activating our character twos.

[22:57] Laura Camien: The chainsaw's getting a little closer.

[22:59] Susan Blackwell: I'm not in the world.

[23:00] Laura Camien: Oh, they're coming for you.

[23:03] Susan Blackwell: Don't be worried.

[23:04] Laura Camien: That chainsaw is activating your character too.

[23:07] Susan Blackwell: You've seen the movies.

[23:08] Laura Camien: You know what's possible.

[23:10] Susan Blackwell: So just to return to the words of JBT, it is this audacious character too who faces our deepest fears and sounds the alarm for danger in the only way it knows how.

[23:22] Laura Camien: It wails, it whines, it cheats, it schemes, it self-loaths, it gets jealous, it gets angry, it feels guilt and shame, and it acts out in a million antisocial ways to get our attention.

[23:36] Susan Blackwell: Our left and right, now this I thought was interesting, Laura.

[23:36] Laura Camien: This I thought was interesting.

[23:41] Susan Blackwell: Our left and right brain emotional characters two and three both can throw a tempered tantrum at any age because the cellular networks of our emotional system never mature.

[23:54] Laura Camien: So that's that feeling parts of our brain.

[23:55] Susan Blackwell: So whether it's in two or three, so right brain or left brain, they can both get activated and they will not mature.

[24:03] Laura Camien: So let's keep that in mind about our little character three.

[24:06] Susan Blackwell: She can kick up some dust too.

[24:08] Laura Camien: Is that because, um again, because the past and we're going to, you know, the, uh like let's say trauma, trauma that happens when we're young, and we return to that to feel the pain to have the tantrum.

[24:24] Susan Blackwell: I'm just really curious about that.

[24:25] Laura Camien: And you don't have to say now because it might jump your spark, but I'm so curious to know if you found an answer to what does a healthy character two look like.

[24:35] Susan Blackwell: Is it possible?

[24:37] Laura Camien: Yes.

[24:38] Susan Blackwell: This part of our brain is, in the words of Gavin DeBecker, our gift of fear.

[24:44] Laura Camien: It is working to keep us safe.

[24:46] Susan Blackwell: And JBT describes her character too with so much appreciation.

[24:50] Laura Camien: She describes it as a lovely and vulnerable part of her.

[24:54] Susan Blackwell: And she says of character two, I have learned to value this character as my inner alarm and for the depth of my emotions as well as my potential for growth.

[25:06] Laura Camien: Yet every time this part of my brain goes negatively haywire, it means there is something going on that makes me feel unsafe deep inside.

[25:14] Susan Blackwell: When I am willing to explore what is at the core of my reaction, there are insights available to help me better understand my own fears and weaknesses.

[25:24] Laura Camien: So what she is describing is this is where our growth edge lives.

[25:29] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[25:29] Laura Camien: And this is where we gently lead the creatives we work with, Laura.

[25:34] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[25:34] Laura Camien: We are continually asking ourselves and our clients and our listeners to travel to the edge of their comfort so that they can identify good, healthy, constructive creative risks, sparks of inspiration, and the fuel that gets things made.

[25:48] Susan Blackwell: So in the language of JBT, we're talking about befriending our character two and thoughtfully, consciously journeying into that character two space in service of our creativity.

[25:59] Laura Camien: So that's a partial answer to your question, I feel.

[26:03] Susan Blackwell: So there is a passage in JBT's book, Whole Brain Living, that I really loved.

[26:08] Laura Camien: And I feel like it's so useful for artists and human beings regarding this character two.

[26:14] Susan Blackwell: Our character two is the source of our deepest and most profound emotions.

[26:19] Laura Camien: Among others, we have the capacity to feel overwhelming loneliness, become completely enveloped by grief, and love more deeply than we could ever imagine.

[26:28] Susan Blackwell: When we hurt or hate or feel completely possessed by jealousy or rage, these emotional experiences are both powerful and delicious.

[26:37] Laura Camien: I always share that I don't mind if someone is miserable as long as they remember to enjoy it.

[26:43] Susan Blackwell: The ability of our brain to manufacture an experience of misery is a total art.

[26:48] Laura Camien: We all hurt.

[26:50] Susan Blackwell: And having the emotional capacity to experience true suffering is an amazing part of being alive.

[26:56] Laura Camien: We just get into trouble when we spend too much time running that circuitry, believing that it is our truth rather than realizing that it is simply a group of cells running a circuit.

[27:08] Susan Blackwell: I feel pain.

[27:12] Laura Camien: I mean, come on.

[27:14] Susan Blackwell: Come on.

[27:15] Laura Camien: That is amazing.

[27:16] Susan Blackwell: That is like, that is literally everything.

[27:19] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[27:20] Susan Blackwell: Just like don't linger there.

[27:22] Laura Camien: It's not your identity.

[27:24] Susan Blackwell: It is simply a feeling.

[27:26] Laura Camien: Don't furnish the place and set up home there.

[27:28] Susan Blackwell: Like, but it is part of the human experience and therefore part of the creative experience.

[27:34] Laura Camien: And if we don't spend some time there, if we don't have some lived experience there, how do we make stuff?

[27:34] Susan Blackwell: How do we make stuff other than just things that are like read like a greeting card?

[27:44] Laura Camien: You know what I mean?

[27:45] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[27:45] Laura Camien: And as creatives, I'm sure you're going to get into this, but if we want to impact people, if we want to touch on those pieces of humanity that we all experience, like loneliness, things we experience but don't necessarily talk about all the time.

[28:03] Susan Blackwell: You have to touch on their character too.

[28:07] Laura Camien: Like you're literally reaching in, and you know, it doesn't mean that, again, that we're all as an audience collectively going into character two and staying there, but at least touching on it so it can trigger those feelings.

[28:21] Susan Blackwell: That's essentially like what most artists hope to do to some degree.

[28:25] Laura Camien: Like you want to touch on those deep, deep, deep feelings.

[28:29] Susan Blackwell: I fucking agree.

[28:30] Laura Camien: Yes.

[28:31] Susan Blackwell: Um, to answer your question that you asked last episode and just restated, Laura, talking about cultivating a healthy character two, JBT says the best way she has found to hold her character two in love while retaining deep inner peace is through an exercise that she calls the brain huddle.

[28:48] Susan Blackwell: And I'll talk briefly about that in just a moment. But first, I just want to consider what we want to name this character too. And as I said last time, I actually know I'm gonna say at least two living humans who completely embody the majority of these qualities. Um, I thought about naming this character after them, but it's hard sometimes for me to feel compassion for those folks because they're so unpleasant. So I thought I might call my character LSB, which could stand for little Susan Blackwell, because it's just like that little part of ourselves, but it could also stand for little scared bitey, because that's how it sometimes comes out. It gets scared and it gets bitey.

[29:29] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:30] Susan Blackwell: Um, I think about how fearful and anxious I was as a kid and how fearful and anxious I sometimes still am as an adult. And what things bring my character to, aka little scared bitey to the surface. When I'm in real danger, certainly, but also when I can't figure out how to learn something. I remember when up from the time that I was very young. Uh, I would just like, if I couldn't figure out how to learn the continents, like or how to learn a math thing, I would just like burst into tears. And I was just a mess. But now as an adult, when I'm in an unfamiliar environment, when I'm afraid I could appear imperfect, believe it or not. Like do you have, but do you, but yeah, have you thought at all about yeah?

[30:21] Laura Camien: I think about this.

[30:22] Susan Blackwell: Um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about this, but I'm thinking I might call this my sensitive soul because for me, sensitive soul, like I think that helps me to have compassion for it. And because it does go all the way back to my youth. My youth was spent being told I was too sensitive, as we know from previous episodes. Um, and both so there's a negative and positive association with it. But if I think of it collectively as my sensitive soul, I think I can have a warm appreciation for it more than because there's other names like you. There's someone in my life who like to be honest, my mom's, yeah. My, uh, most of the time, like you know, when you're talking to your therapist and they're like, where does that voice come from?

I'm like, well, it's my mom's voice. And I now know, of course, my mom was scared. My mom was a, uh, you know, essentially a small child who never, you know, who never got to heal certain parts of herself. So I have, and so I do have compassion for her as well. So I'm thinking, I'm trying on sensitive soul as I, you know, I like it.

[31:40] Laura Camien: Yeah, I like it.

[31:41] Susan Blackwell: Thank you. Yeah, I added bitey to mine because I was like, sometimes it doesn't come out just like I'm scared and sweet. It comes out bitey.

[31:50] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[31:50] Susan Blackwell: No, that makes sense. And mine doesn't capture that quality. So I'm not, I'm not sure if it's the whole enchilada or not yet, but it's what I'm playing with. Let's play with it for now.

[32:01] Laura Camien: Okay.

[32:02] Susan Blackwell: All right. So next up we've got character three. This is right brain emotional. These are words that JBT associates with this part of the brain: creative, innovative, open, expansive, fearless, risk taking, friendly, kind, sharing, trusting, unconditionally loving, supportive, grateful, goes with the flow, prizes equality. Speaking of her character three, JBT writes many of us compulsively express ourselves artistically, and few things are more beautiful than the feeling we get when we are completely lost in the flow. Some people proclaim that their creative process is an agonizingly painful experience that is in its own weird way uniquely delicious. Others just link up to their muse and genius pours right through.

I know that when I carve stone, I love that she's a stone carver. She's this woman is amazing. I become so caught up in the flow that I feel compelled to discover and release whatever figure is stuck inside the block. How lovely it is that we humans have this capacity through our right brains to reach deep inside and express ourselves in creative ways. What a bonus it is if our creation somehow touches the heart or the right brain of another.

[33:22] Laura Camien: So those were all the words of Jill Bolte Taylor. And I love she's a, like most people listening to this, she's in addition to being a brain scientist, is wildly creative. And this is what I was talking about with Nathan this morning. We do all this character one work. ABS did all this work to organize the recording of this podcast. You know, I did this research. I wrote up my book report. I, uh, got this, got you the Zencaster link. We conferred about whether the sound would be okay if there were chainsaws outside your window, like all of this like character one, all business Susan planning, so that when we show up here, we can just relax and have fun. And that's why I think podcasting day is my favorite day.

[34:11] Susan Blackwell: Yes. It's just like character three is off the leash. And I also have to say, I think it's true when I teach too.

[34:19] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[34:19] Susan Blackwell: I do all this planning, all this preparation so that when I get into the classroom, we can be ding-dongs. We can have fun. We can, I think I probably maybe I take it too far sometimes, but like just have fun and improv with the knowledge that the foundation of our curriculum is just spot on and solid.

[34:42] Laura Camien: So 100%.

[34:43] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Yes. Yes. That makes so much sense. Yeah, anyway, you get the picture. But I think this is why, this is why podcasting day is so fun, because it's just like character three in full effect. So JBT writes that this character three is her primary default setting. She wakes up in the morning as this part of herself with joy in her heart and curiosity about her day, and then consciously shifts into different characters as needed. Then once she checks out her scheduled commitments, she meanders from one thing to the next, pretty much without a plan, but problem solving as she goes. And then her character one pops in and keeps her on schedule. But her automatic impulse is to slip back into the freedom of the present moment, character three, unless there is some reason that she should allow a different character to take the wheel.

[35:33] Laura Camien: So this is so interesting to me. As you know, I struggle with my character one driving, driving, driving. And even when I have time to rest, my character one keeps popping online and telling me to be productive. And the only way I can allow myself to rest has been historically to work, work, work, work, work until I'm so worn out that I have to rest. And that's when I allow myself to rest when I'm so tired that there's no other option. So character one dominates my days. And I, you and I talk about this all the fucking time. I keep craving more what we have called unscheduled time on the calendar or more porous time on the calendar. But I think what I'm craving is more character three time.

[36:15] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[36:16] Laura Camien: Yes. And I tell all of, I'll tell you all of this because when I recently had a few days off in a row, I tried a different approach. I had, I had a lot of conversations leading up to this to try to get my brain right about it. But then I had my character one make a list of all the fun things that I wanted to do. So that was like painting, working with plants, working on the house, doing crafts. And then I did, I basically did what Jill Bolte Taylor described here. I just sort of followed charm throughout the day and I picked what I wanted to do next. And when that got, when I was sort of like, I don't want to do this anymore, I would put that down or wash, clean my paintbrushes and put them away, and I would flow on to the next thing.

And it was lovely. My character one still wanted to keep me moving. And I noticed that when I stop moving, when I sit too long, when I read a book for pleasure, when I watch TV during the day, I have a really hard time quieting my character one. But this JBT default setting that she describes is more of what I crave. I just have to figure out how to roll this way when I'm not on vacation. And I'm not sure yet how to keep this business running smoothly and character three it as much as I'd like to.

[37:34] Susan Blackwell: You know I couldn't agree more. I think it's really interesting that she wakes up in three. I'm, I want that. I want that.

[37:38] Laura Camien: You wake up in one.

[37:46] Susan Blackwell: I wake up in one or I mean or within 30 seconds it's shift into like wait what time is it? What time is my first meeting? What time is my first thing? What do I need to achieve before that first thing starts because then we're off and running so that kicks in immediately and almost like I can't, I can't actually get up in the morning and relax without checking in with character one and seeing like what's the situation what day is it and what do we have on the topic today.

[38:15] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[38:15] Susan Blackwell: But um, but I as you were talking I was thinking about like you know I've talked about it many times but my career at Blue Man Group surrounded by clowns. I mean literally these guys are it is their job to be in character three.

[38:28] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[38:36] Susan Blackwell: And they live their life there. And I like I definitely experienced um, well, then in contrast, the rest of us who sort of like run the show and get all of this other stuff done so that these guys can get on stage and play, you know, it it almost became like in contrast to that. We are our value comes from like what what do we get done and how efficiently and how accurately, boom, boom, boom.

[39:06] Laura Camien: That's right.

[39:07] Susan Blackwell: Right. So you start to define yourself that way.

[39:09] Laura Camien: That's right.

[39:11] Susan Blackwell: But the um attraction, the draw to, I could tell there were people who are like, I love being around these clowns because they are that way. I'm telling you, like 90% of the time. Yeah. It is again, it is their job, it is their livelihood to be that. They're there. So in their mind, their value might be associated with like my their ability to be in character three. And that's anytime from rehearsal time to meetings to actual show time. And there were those of us who are like, oh, yeah, that's amazing. And I want more of that. And then you could see there was others who were like very, very resentful of that. Like, well, I don't get to live my life as a clown, you know. Um, it really triggered a pulled them into their character too. Really pulled them in. And I always like I've always been like, no, I'd rather like be around it and um aspire toward it. I would choose it, you know.

[40:13] Laura Camien: I just can think of 12 people who like live in this state.

[40:16] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. You know, when we have conversations with clients and they're artists, they they want they aspire to living a more character three life, but necessity requires that they, you know, pay their rent and they make sure they have health insurance. And sometimes people will play around with the idea of taking a job that is in like you at Blue Man. You're in a creative space, but you're doing character one work.

[40:45] Laura Camien: That's right.

[40:46] Susan Blackwell: And the question we always ask people is based on what you know about yourself, will this feel like standing next to the fire and not getting warm? Will this feel like I'm so close to what I want? Yeah, but uh, why am I not warm? And another way of looking at that, or to use the thinking of Jill Bolte Taylor, it would sort of be I'm cast in the role of a character one. I'm standing right next to a character three. And I can lightly play around in character three it, but at, you know, in a moment's notice, I need to return to my desk and character one it.

[41:20] Laura Camien: So Suze, I can look back and tell you, I can tell you entire years, if not decades, when it was more than enough for me because I was playing, literally playing with all of them and sitting at my desk and doing it. At night, we were creating shows with some of them, you know, with some of the people, like it was more of that collective kind of feeling. So I was writing, uh, performing, creating shows, producing shows. Um, and then those years where I wasn't, then that's like, oh no, nope. That was not happy making this isn't gonna work.

[42:00] Susan Blackwell: It's not sustainable for you.

[42:02] Laura Camien: Yeah. Yeah. Need to get more of that play energy. I hear people, I hear clients talk about resistance to the necessary character one work that sets the stage for what they have called the juicy stuff. Do you know what I mean? AKA character three work. But I have to say, once I understood that my character one is absolutely essential to getting from me to getting to that yummy fun of character three, it makes me appreciate character one's hard work and organization so much more.

[42:37] Susan Blackwell: Me too.

[42:38] Laura Camien: And Suze, this is just coming to me right now. But this tragedy of um artists being taught essentially that they can't be good at character one. Like they that they're meant to be in three and they can't like uh I can't figure out the business stuff, or I can't. No, that's when people get like embezzled on, like when they're like, oh, I don't concern my, I don't like I'm not numerous either, but you've got to pay attention to your money.

[43:10] Susan Blackwell: Yes, and the way like the work of Jill Bolte Taylor, if anything, if we can take anything away from it, is that we all have within us the capacity for that's right, all four of these.

[43:22] Laura Camien: That's right. If you've been told differently, you are incorrect. You are still told yourself differently. That's right. If you've told yourself that I couldn't possibly understand how to stay on schedule or how to run my finances or run my business, or if you've told yourself I couldn't possibly be creative, I'm just not, I'm not creative. Probably you're not listening to this podcast, if that's something you think about yourself. But if you are and you've told yourself that story, it's simply not true. It's simply not true. We all have access to all these parts of our brains, and it's just about consciously strengthening them. Talking about this creative collaboration, that's essentially what we're talking about.

We're getting these different parts of our brains to collaborate with each other. JBT writes creatively, if you are a natural musician or visual artist, you use your right brain to express yourself. When your character three comes out and is dominant, we become uninhibited by the paralyzing fear of our left brain judgment. It is right here in the present moment when we find a beat, add a rhythm, pick out a melody, and hook up with our left brain lyric writing self to communicate a message that is a perfect combination of story, emotion, and feeling. But when we work it, study it, and perfect it, our left brain is the master of practice. And then our right brain makes magic happen during the performance.

So I mean, that's a sort of illustration of what you're talking about. And I think about that in God, our work as teachers, our work as creatives. My work as an interpretive artist, when I go, I learn my lines, I know how to hit my mark. It's that spark you did about preparation. You know, that left brain is like prepare, prepare, prepare, and then go have fun. And then let it rip. But even when you're letting it rip on camera, that's a really good example of you have to have your character one still has to hit marks.

[45:31] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And sometimes those marks are so subtle. It's literally like, can you shift your weight to the right stop? Like it's so, and you have to then let your character three come out and play while your character one is holding to holding you to that mark.

[45:46] Laura Camien: Yeah. And also like how, like when you do it, that's part of why how like how exhilarating it is, I think. I don't know what Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor will say about this, but to me, that multiple parts of the brain working together and lighting up leads to an incredible, like euphoric feeling to me when you require them to work together.

[46:16] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. That's exciting. I mean, that's well like Anthony Veneziale showing those brain scans of people where their whole brain is lit up.

[46:24] Laura Camien: Yes. That is a good time, Charlie. Whole brain collaboration. When I read JBT's words and her work, it really does help me appreciate how all the parts of my brain need to pull their weight when it comes to the creative process. And just to restate, character one, left brain thinking keeps us organized, meets deadlines, schedules rehearsals, makes sure we're off book, character fills out grant applications. Character two, left brain feeling tells us what scares us. It serves as our growth edge, it fleshes out the full range of emotions and the human experience. Character three, right brain feeling is creative, curious, playful, seeks adrenaline and adventure, which leads me to character four, right brain thinking.

A little bit about character four. This part of the brain lives in the present. She is nonverbal. She thinks in pictures. I think that's super important. She thinks in images. She is compassionate, flexible, resilient, open to possibilities, available, looks at the big picture and seeks similarities. So instead of the left brain seeking differences, this part of the brain is seeking similarities. She is experiential, lost in the flowing fluidity of time, body-based, kinesthetic. Jill Bolte Taylor says character four is always running just below the radar of the noise that is made by the other characters. And Jill says this is her authentic self that is all-knowing, all-loving, and connected to all that is.

[49:13] Laura Camien: Tell me that doesn't sound like the description of a great performer, like a great stage actor. Or a great, when I think about like Meryl Streep. When I've watched Meryl Streep work, both on screen, but also in person, I'm like, oh, you're going into a different space. And I've described it as flow. I've described it as trying to find words for it, sort of like when Michael Jordan talks about how when he's in flow, things go into slow motion. It's like everybody else is in slow motion and he is just in real time and he can, his brain is working faster or he's moving faster than other people. I observe that in Meryl Streep as well. And I just think, oh, they're living, I think their whole brain living actually with a big healthy dose of this character four flowing piece.

Of her character four JBT writes, consider the moments in your life when you have felt your heart expand or open. And I was like, I do know that feeling. I feel it in my chest. There's a Macklemore song where he talks about feeling a bubble in his chest. And I'm like, oh, I know that feeling. And that is our character four rising to the surface. She goes on to say, this portion of my brain knows that we are perfect, whole, and beautiful, regardless of what is spiraling around in me in this world or what circumstance I find myself in. And she writes a bit about how to consciously shift to get into your character four. And this is what she says. With practice, I shift my consciousness out of my normal focus, pushing the constant noise of the world into the background, and bring my attention to that which has no name.

When I focus on my breath, I shift out of the past or the future. Once in the present moment, I connect with my sense of gratitude and allow my consciousness to devolve into the babble of the babbling brook and empathetically experience the laughter, tears, and fears of others. I let myself expand, weaving my energy between the blades of wheat in that field over there, and I am in the movement of the grass and trees. This part of me is never far away as I vibrate in the hum of the hummingbirds and coo at the trail of a shooting star.

[51:44] Susan Blackwell: When she uses these words, Laura, this her description of character four, it's poetry. Her words and the natural interconnectedness she is describing remind me of a Rumi poem that we read each week at our creativity lab to get into the flow of our creative work. This poem was introduced to me by my writing teacher, Linda Barry, and Linda Barry uses it to ritualize the beginning of the writing process, which I think is essentially to tell the whole brain, and especially character four. We're going on a creative journey for the time being. And this is the poem. Tell me if this isn't the most character four thing you have ever heard. You are sitting here with us, but you are also out walking in a field at dawn.

You are yourself the animal we hunt when you come with us on the hunt. You are in your body, like a plant is solid in the ground, yet you are wind. You are the diver's clothes lying empty on the beach. You are the fish. In the ocean are many bright strands and many dark strands, like veins that are seen when a wing is lifted up. Your hidden self is blood in those, those veins that are loot strings that make ocean music, not the sad edge of surf, but the sound of no shore. Thank you, Rumi. Is that the most character four?

[53:13] Laura Camien: Yes. And when we when we read it at the top of our creativity lab, where people are preparing to immerse themselves into that character three, we're also signaling to them not only is it time to get creative, it is time to dip into that character four space. And it's like a magic spell, and it brings me into that interconnected space.

[53:42] Susan Blackwell: 100%. It's inviting character four. It's essentially saying to our brains. I invite you. You know, I like let's let's work together. Let's get into this space. Let's connect with all that is. Yeah, it occurs to me that I still don't have a name for my character three, just jumping back. I'm can I'm working with the name POTUS because POTUS is my dog, and POTUS has sort of embodies this energy that is so playful, that is so curious, that is so present moment. I don't think POTUS thinks in language, I think POTUS thinks in images, and also is an adrenaline seeker. Like I'm sort of playing with the name of POTUS. I'm not sure yet. I will, I don't know if I ever said this on the podcast. I might have, but a couple summers back, I was doing an encore at City Center.

And so I hadn't performed live in a musical in a while. And the first night of the performance when it was showtime, I was sitting on stage and I was getting ready to stand up and sing this big number. And I started to feel myself slip into the adrenaline of character three, which is great, but I could also feel myself maybe taking a turn into character two fear. And I imagined POTUS on my lap. And I was like, I don't think if POTUS was here, I don't think he'd be scared. I'm gonna embody that energy, just playful and and it helped me kind of just pull it back, pull it back into character three world. So I'm playing around with POTUS and character four, I'm not sure. Rumi, because it's you could spell it both ways. R-U-M-I, like the poet, but also roomy because it's so expansive. We're considering roomy, but we're welcome to any other input that you all may have.

[55:44] Laura Camien: So let's get into some what do we make of it. If you're a writer or an actor or you're seeking some character inspiration or clarity, I encourage you to try viewing your characters or their behaviors in certain situations through the lens of the four characters. For instance, if you have a character whose primary circuitry is that character two left brain emotional, and they might love verbally sparring with or bullying others, purposefully trying to make others feel bad. They might get upset about politics or not feel safe around people who are different from them. So that's just one example. And we also, because you know, the magic of so many art forms is creating change so that the viewer, whether that's the reader, the watcher, the listener, should we love to observe change.

Oh my gosh, we love it in all our art forms. So how does the character, how do the characters change? Like, does it change? Do you go from they started out as a tight-laced character one, and then through interacting with character three, they not only got to three, but they learned a lesson that took them all the way to character four. That's every movie poster or every trailer you've ever seen where there's some tight-laced guy in a suit with a necktie, and there's some crazy, like suddenly seeking Susan who's got their tie like wrapped around their hand, and they're like, come on, I'm gonna take you to the wild side. Like that's a character one being changed by a character three.

[57:18] Susan Blackwell: That's right. And then you also have like the trope of sort of the buffoonish guy who like can't get his life together because he's like always being a clown and goofing off my idiot brother. Yes, that's right. Absolutely. He needs to be pulled into character one to get his life together to show that he can be responsible, keep a job, and settle down.

[57:38] Susan Blackwell: But maybe in that interaction, everyone is changed for the better and arrives in a character four space.

[57:43] Laura Camien: Always.

[57:44] Susan Blackwell: Your peanut butter is in my chocolate.

[57:46] Laura Camien: My chocolate is in your peanut butter.

[57:48] Susan Blackwell: Two great tastes that taste great together. What do we make of this regarding collaboration and specifically conflict in the midst of collaboration?

[57:57] Laura Camien: According to JBT, any conflict between two character twos will never be resolved.

[58:04] Susan Blackwell: She actually repeats it in the book, so I'm gonna repeat it here. Any conflict between two character twos will never be resolved.

[58:12] Laura Camien: Okay. I'm sorry to take it again back into politics, but when we live in a world where the media, our politicians, people are appealing to our character twos in different ways.

[58:27] Susan Blackwell: Whether you're afraid of socialism or you're afraid of conservatism, if we're afraid and we're living in character two, we are not going to come together.

[58:38] Laura Camien: We'll never be resolved.

[58:41] Susan Blackwell: Whoa. Okay. So whether it's in the global or the national political arena, or if it's in a rehearsal room, if you are feeling disagreeable and ready to go on the attack, pay attention to which character the other person is starting out as.

[58:57] Laura Camien: What circuitry are they running?

[58:59] Susan Blackwell: Jill says, in order for any conflict between two character twos to be resolved and for any healing or agreement to happen, one of the parties must be willing to shift out of their character two.

[59:11] Laura Camien: Wow.

[59:12] Susan Blackwell: She says, it is really fun to watch this dynamic in action when people are in dispute. Once you gain an eye for it and learn to manage your own character two reactivity, your communication with others will surely become more agreeable.

[59:25] Laura Camien: Wow. I want to note that, and this is like this is just very day-to-day tactical. It's worth noting that your character two can splash to the surface when you are hungry, tired, when your blood sugar drops.

[59:39] Susan Blackwell: So if you're headed into the studio or rehearsal or a big writing session or a wood carving session, or Laura, if we're ideating about, I think we know this about ourselves, but we're going to be doing some big thought work about what we want the next six months of curriculum to look like. We need to come to that.

[59:55] Laura Camien: Rested, having eaten healthy, including having some light snacks available to sustain and fuel us.

[1:00:04] Susan Blackwell: I'm so proud to say uh and just acknowledge to you, like I feel like we're conscious of this. We're very considerate. If one of us is like, hey, I'm like, I just felt my blood sugar drop. I need to take a break and get a snack or drink some water, etc. Like we, there is never any judgment.

[1:00:25] Laura Camien: We snap immediately into yes, let us take care of ourselves so that we even see it in each other.

[1:00:31] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And you'll say to me, I'll I'll say, I just uh I just lost the thread. You said it last week and you were like, I saw it happen.

[1:00:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:00:40] Susan Blackwell: And there are times when I I've we have may have mentioned this on the podcast before. I'll come into a scheduled meeting that we have with each other and I'll say, I feel irritable and I can tell it's looking for something to attach to.

[1:00:55] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:00:56] Susan Blackwell: And basically to call myself out.

[1:00:58] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:00:58] Susan Blackwell: And also, if I'm a dick, that you can be like, don't splash it this way. You know what I mean?

[1:01:03] Laura Camien: Well, I love that level of consciousness, Zeus. Not many people that I know have it to the degree that you have.

[1:01:11] Susan Blackwell: Um, just to articulate that, my irritability is looking for something. That awareness, like a lot of people don't realize maybe until after they've snapped at someone, they're like, oh, actually, it wasn't that person at all. It started before that.

[1:01:25] Laura Camien: Um, so take that tip. It will change your life if you're able to get in front of it and say, Oh, my irritability is seeking, seeking, seeking, and and put your family members or friends on warning, that's what's happening right now. It can change everything.

[1:01:44] Susan Blackwell: Well, now, thanks to the work of JBT, we have this additional language, and we can say, Oh, my character two is on the hunt, or my character two has been kicked up.

[1:01:56] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:01:56] Susan Blackwell: Either I woke up like this and I'm not sure why. I don't know what I ate last night or what I was dreaming about, but my character two is on the hunt. We have we we can say that now and even take a pause and just let the other pieces of our brain, our character ones, our character threes and fours, appreciate and tend to that part of our brain, not just sort of castigate it or punish ourselves, double arrow for being in that space, but use the other parts of our brain to collaborate to help lift us on up out of that circuitry. Thank it, acknowledge it, and then make a different choice.

[1:02:37] Laura Camien: Uh, here's another what do we make of it? Great acting. JBT says, when it comes to assessing how safe we are in the presence of another person, our right brain character three is a well-honed truth detector. It reads body language, matches it with facial expression, and then interprets the emotional cues of inflection of voice and vocal intonation.

[1:03:00] Susan Blackwell: When all those pieces of the puzzle fit together appropriately, we interpret that behavior as truth. When the pieces do not fit together as they should, for example, if a person's body stance does not communicate openness when they are professing their love, we question the overall integrity of what they are saying.

[1:03:18] Laura Camien: Some people, for whatever reason, have mastered the fine art of deception. And they do this by consciously manipulating how they are perceived. They fly under other people's right brain radar. It is possible for us to train ourselves to do this, but to be a really good liar and all add actor, our left brain has to recruit our right brain to help pull off the trickery.

[1:03:39] Susan Blackwell: I'm gonna say that again. Our right brain would be responsible for holding our body just right and not giving the deception away with our mouth or eyes while manifesting appropriate vocal cues.

[1:03:56] Laura Camien: That's Joe Bolty Taylor. Now I say if you're interested in being a great actor, especially a great on-camera actor, get into your character three and working in collaboration with the rest of your characters.

[1:04:08] Susan Blackwell: It's so funny the way that she's talking about brain health and brain balance, but I'm like, this is the pathway to being a great actor.

[1:04:17] Laura Camien: Yes.

[1:04:18] Susan Blackwell: Speaking from experience, you need character one to show up off book, on point, ready to hit your marks, as I said earlier. You must access your character two in order to bring the full depth of human emotion to the work. And you must strengthen your character three so that you can appear authentic and unobserved.

[1:04:39] Laura Camien: So I think this there's stuff in here that is the key to great acting.

[1:04:43] Susan Blackwell: I would say great acting, I would also say great writing. I think that you need to know. I mean, because that what you just described is um, you know, working with a character who the idea that you want to be believable because you mean what you say. And then there's the character that you are writing who is not telling the truth. And so understanding those things that would indicate whether or not they are telling the truth.

[1:05:12] Laura Camien: I just think yes, yes is what I'm saying. It goes deep. And this understanding, I think helps us at every level of our creativity.

[1:05:22] Susan Blackwell: I do too. I do too. Phenomenal, Suze. I love this.

[1:05:25] Laura Camien: So I just want to share a few more. What do we make makes of its? What do we makes of it? Some of the most profound creativity rises out of the deepest wounds we have experienced that might look like people who have experienced or witnessed injustice or trauma and then worked and collaborated and organized to create change.

[1:05:44] Susan Blackwell: Or people who have been so moved by, I just think of some of our clients who have been so moved by the impact of arts and what the arts have brought to their lives that they are working to create advancements around art education. Or it could look like creatives who write their pain into their comedy or novels or TV shows or paint it onto canvases or incorporate it into their performance art.

[1:06:08] Laura Camien: It's the old, if you have to live it, you might as well get to make something out of it. Your character too can collaborate with your other characters. Character two, again, tells us where our growth edge is. It provides that visceral feeling to tell us that there's potential creative risk afoot. It provides us with raw source material and the fuel to get the project made.

[1:06:30] Susan Blackwell: And then character two can pass that spark to character three, who can utilize their creativity to make something out of it. And character one can project manage the fuck out of all of it. So to answer your earlier question in a different way, I think a healthy character two is our intrepid feeler who identifies the cave we fear to enter, which holds the creative treasure that we seek.

[1:06:53] Laura Camien: Yes, yes, yes.

[1:06:56] Susan Blackwell: And one more what do we make of it. Jill Bolte Taylor tells the story about how she became a river guide after graduating from college. Through the people that she learned from and the life that she lived that summer, she says she grew up and met the best part of herself, the part of her that she wanted to become her character four.

[1:07:19] Laura Camien: When she returned home, her mother recognized that she was now a different woman, and her mother never held her back to her smaller self.

[1:07:27] Susan Blackwell: I read that and I realized in my life, I have sometimes gotten scared, character two, that if I grow up into a more expansive version of myself, if I grow into my character four, it I will be too much for people. My character two fears rejection, so I revert back into smaller versions of myself that I guess people might feel more comfortable with.

[1:08:15] Laura Camien: I am reminded by Jill Bolte Taylor's work that in this moment we are perfect, we are whole, we are beautiful, and we are expansive beyond measure.

[1:08:28] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[1:08:30] Laura Camien: So in conclusion, again, I highly recommend this book. As I mentioned in part one of this spark, there's an exercise detailed in her book called The Brain Huddle that she uses to strengthen this collaboration between the four parts of her brain and to consciously decide which part of her brain she will call on at the appropriate time to respond.

[1:08:55] Susan Blackwell: It is a game-changing exercise. So check out Whole Brain Living, The Anatomy of Choice, and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life by the Great Jill Bolti Taylor. Thank you, Jill Bolte Taylor.

[1:09:06] Laura Camien: Thank you, JBT. For bringing it all to our attention and going on another deep dive of it. I love this stuff so much.

[1:09:18] Susan Blackwell: I'll say again, we our little Sparks to Puss dove ever deeper, and yet there's so much that I have not touched in this book. It is it's just life-changing.

[1:09:29] Laura Camien: Yes, I agree.

[1:09:31] Susan Blackwell: I completely agree. Oh, and that left brain of mine was like, oh, what if I had learned this when I was 25? What if I had learned this when I was 30? Because I really do believe it's life-changing, but I'm learning it now.

[1:09:45] Laura Camien: We get to learn it now.

[1:09:47] Susan Blackwell: That's a gift.

[1:09:48] Laura Camien: It is a gift.

[1:09:49] Susan Blackwell: All right, my character once telling me we've got to wrap this up. We've got to go. We've got we've got other spark to push to fry.

[1:09:58] Laura Camien: Oh my god, on the menu tonight, deep-fried spark to push.

[1:10:01] Susan Blackwell: Oh, God, no.

[1:10:02] Laura Camien: No.

[1:10:05] Susan Blackwell: No!

[1:10:06] Laura Camien: Oh no!

[1:10:07] Susan Blackwell: Swim deeper into this fryer, Sparks to Puss.

[1:10:11] Laura Camien: I guess that's it. What a note to end on. This episode of the Sparks File was made on the lands of the Lenape and Seminole people. And as always, we hope that this put another bunch of sparks in your deep spark fryer.

[1:10:26] Susan Blackwell: If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, email us at thesparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. We'll even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission.

[1:10:42] Laura Camien: First, you need to share a creative risk that you've taken recently.

[1:10:46] Susan Blackwell: You can follow us on social at The Sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review this podcast. It really does help other people to find us.

[1:10:56] Laura Camien: If you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, we still love you.

[1:11:02] Susan Blackwell: And your character too.

[1:11:03] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:11:04] Susan Blackwell: If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[1:11:15] Laura Camien: It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[1:11:19] Susan Blackwell: You gotta take it and make it.

[1:11:23] Laura Camien: Bye.

[1:11:25] Susan Blackwell: Bye, everybody.

[1:11:26] Laura Camien: Bye, little spark to pusses.

[1:11:37] Susan Blackwell: Could be something that I wanna take or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark file.

[1:11:42] Laura Camien: Sparkfile.

[1:11:45] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark file.

[1:11:50] Laura Camien: Sparkfile.

[1:11:52] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark flies.