This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: The SparkFile Podcast may contain profanity and other adult content. Please use your discretion.

[0:10] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Susan Blackwell: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Laura Camien: I pump it in my sparks.

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my sparks.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:36] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:51] Laura Camien: If you're an OG member of the Sparkfile community, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:56] Susan Blackwell: If you're joining us for the first time, hi, welcome, friend.

[0:59] Laura Camien: Welcome.

[1:00] Susan Blackwell: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:05] Laura Camien: But hold up one second. You may be asking yourself, ladies, what exactly is a sparkfile?

[1:11] Susan Blackwell: Well, I'll tell you, a sparkfile is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:17] Laura Camien: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know that if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:25] Susan Blackwell: But don't despair. We're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity to light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:41] Laura Camien: Or a life of vocal self-expression, including a fight to honor not just your own voice, but the voices of countless creatives who follow after you.

[1:52] Susan Blackwell: Shabapa.

[1:54] Laura Camien: Ooh, shabaps.

[1:57] Susan Blackwell: Every single episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[2:02] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:05] Susan Blackwell: You know what that means?

[2:06] Laura Camien: What?

[2:07] Susan Blackwell: It means we have more sparks than we can possibly use in this lifetime.

[2:11] Laura Camien: Yes, it does.

[2:12] Susan Blackwell: So if something lights you up, we encourage you, strongly encourage you, to take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:20] Laura Camien: So without further ado, let's open up the spark file.

[2:20] Susan Blackwell: The spark file.

[2:26] Laura Camien: Cammy in Susie Q.

[2:28] Susan Blackwell: Hi.

[2:29] Laura Camien: Spark Day.

[2:30] Susan Blackwell: My favorite day.

[2:31] Laura Camien: Hey, Sparks Day.

[2:33] Susan Blackwell: That is gonna be a chart-topping dance hit.

[2:36] Laura Camien: Hey, thank you. I just realized as I'm getting ready to launch into the spark, there was something I wanted to include, but maybe I can do it.

[2:43] Susan Blackwell: Maybe I can just remember it when the moment comes.

[2:48] Laura Camien: On the fly.

[2:49] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I can't wait. This has been a joyous spark to put together, but it's also like I was like, I want to do it justice, and I want it to be complete and I want it to be like a big spider web of like you could follow down many routes or more dense.

[3:07] Laura Camien: I just want to get the details right and I want it to really honor the spark at the center of it all.

[3:13] Susan Blackwell: So I respect that.

[3:14] Laura Camien: Yeah, I just as we were doing the intro. I thought, oh my god, I forgot about the thing. There's something else.

[3:22] Susan Blackwell: But maybe I'll be able to.

[3:23] Laura Camien: Listen, I also just want to remind you and anyone listening. You know, these episodes are like an hour-ish.

[3:30] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[3:31] Laura Camien: We can't always fit every single thing in them.

[3:34] Susan Blackwell: We're just scratching the tip of the spark bird.

[3:38] Laura Camien: It's up to you, listener. If something tickles your fancy, like we say, you have to like you go spark it up.

[3:44] Susan Blackwell: Run with it and then tell us about it.

[3:46] Laura Camien: Set it on fire.

[3:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[3:48] Laura Camien: So love that. Nothing pleases me more. Should I jump in?

[3:52] Susan Blackwell: Is there anything you want to say to me before we launch?

[3:54] Laura Camien: I don't know. I just feel like today, let's just go right into it.

[3:57] Susan Blackwell: Let's do it.

[3:58] Laura Camien: Let's do it.

[3:58] Susan Blackwell: None of your typical bullshit up top.

[4:01] Laura Camien: Just easy on the bullshit, Laura.

[4:04] Susan Blackwell: Right off the top. Here we go. So, Laura, you know almost as well as anybody how much I love podcasts.

[4:13] Laura Camien: It is amazing to me that there are people in the world, people who have said to us, I don't really, I love you guys. I don't really do podcasts.

[4:21] Susan Blackwell: And I'm like, oh my God, you're missing out on just like well, I mean, not just us, but podcasts in general.

[4:26] Laura Camien: I no, no. That's what I mean.

[4:28] Susan Blackwell: I know. It's just like this whole bounty of free goodness, away to, and it's on any subject matter.

[4:37] Laura Camien: And it can be so niche, and you will find a podcast or more than one dedicated to it.

[4:42] Susan Blackwell: So even better, niche.

[4:45] Laura Camien: I like it.

[4:45] Susan Blackwell: It is niche and the niche with a twist.

[4:48] Laura Camien: So I love a good podcast, and many of you know I also love some true crime, which is something I actually don't talk a lot about on this podcast, because while so many of those true crime stories could certainly spark interesting creative projects, I don't think it would really serve our listeners if I just kept serving up creativity sparks about murders and weird unsolved disappearances.

[5:11] Susan Blackwell: It's like there's some sort other sources that like dedicate themselves to that.

[5:16] Laura Camien: That's right.

[5:16] Susan Blackwell: But it is something that I do enjoy consuming in my downtime, like when I'm cleaning or commuting or whatever.

[5:22] Laura Camien: Yes.

[5:22] Susan Blackwell: And if you're sparked by it, it qualifies.

[5:24] Laura Camien: We can sprinkle, sprinkle some of these throughout.

[5:28] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[5:28] Laura Camien: That's right. You know, when I think about it, baby cams, I'm sure somebody's written their doctoral thesis on why true crime is having such a period.

[5:37] Susan Blackwell: It's not even a moment. Like people are so into true crime.

[5:41] Laura Camien: Mostly I think I just like a good story well told.

[5:45] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[5:46] Laura Camien: Because I have a different theory, not about you in particular, but overall, I think that depending on how it's presented, true crime stories engage our brains and the problem-solving parts of our brains.

[6:00] Susan Blackwell: And I think there are many people who are like really got into or just wanting to potentially solve it.

[6:07] Laura Camien: Like remember when serial came out and everybody had like a point of view about But did they talk to this person? But what did they did?

[6:13] Susan Blackwell: I remember there's a couple whom we adore, and one party in that couple was like, I absolutely think he's guilty, and the other was like, I absolutely think he's innocent.

[6:27] Laura Camien: And so I think you have a point there. For me, I don't know that it activates my little Sherlock Holmes. It's more like if something is too scary for me to take in visually, taking it in through my ears is just easier for me.

[6:43] Susan Blackwell: And so I can still enjoy a broader range of stories, including things that might be a little bit like scary or upsetting. But if I just listen to them, it's a little easier for me to take in.

[6:53] Laura Camien: Can I pose a question? I don't mean to like disrupt your spark flow or anything, but I completely believe you in regard to like I love a story well told.

[7:03] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[7:04] Laura Camien: But my question for you is so you don't need to know the ending of a story. Because a lot of these are like unsolved, or do you like it better when it's solved?

[7:15] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I don't need to know the ending if it's a good story well told.

[7:19] Laura Camien: Oh, fascinating.

[7:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's satisfaction that comes when you sort of get the penny drop moment, but you know, that doesn't always happen, especially when you're talking about true crime stories where and maybe a cold case that's never been solved.

[7:35] Laura Camien: In summary, I like true crime. I don't talk a lot about it on here because it it's not always appropriate. But because of that, I stumbled onto a great true crime podcast.

[7:47] Susan Blackwell: It's called Crime Show.

[7:49] Laura Camien: It's hosted and produced by a person named Emma Cortland, and I found it refreshing and interesting because it's it's sort of a different kind of true crime show.

[8:00] Susan Blackwell: First of all, it's incredibly well produced, and the stories are very well told, which in the wide wide world of podcasts, you know that's not always the case.

[8:09] Laura Camien: What makes it so like different? Do you just think the stories are just that much better told?

[8:14] Susan Blackwell: The stories are totally well curated, the production values are extremely high. They feature an enormous amount of interview sound footage with the people that were involved in the crime.

[8:28] Laura Camien: So it really focuses on the people involved and their experiences with the crime.

[8:33] Susan Blackwell: It's told in their words. The research is journalistic and you know, fairly deep, but it's still like the stories are told in a really, really compelling way.

[8:43] Laura Camien: Smart way.

[8:44] Susan Blackwell: Okay, great. I love this. It's really good. And also the diversity of the crimes they're talking about is interesting. It's not just sort of like murder and kidnap, it's not just that, it's a whole range of things.

[8:57] Laura Camien: So I just really I highly recommend it if you're into such things. But the episode that got me hooked is the spark that I want to share today.

[9:05] Susan Blackwell: It is a story that I knew a bit about, but this episode of Crime Show sort of opened a door.

[9:10] Laura Camien: It provided a depth of understanding that I didn't have before, and it also brought me to do my own further research on it and to learn a lot more about something that I already knew a little bit about and was interested in.

[9:22] Susan Blackwell: So this particular spark and this particular crime feel particularly relevant to the Sparkfile podcast because it centers on creativity and creatives, and one creative in particular, and what it means to maintain the ownership of your voice.

[9:40] Laura Camien: So sources for this spark include the aforementioned crime show podcast, an article on rxmusic.com by Michael Primiani, an article on Stereo Gum by Nate Patrin or Patrine, a podcast called Culture Dump, and a BBC News podcast called The Documentary.

[9:59] Susan Blackwell: The voice that's at the center of this story is a singing voice that you know well because you Laura Camien, and most likely you listeners, unless you've been living in a taco shell, you have heard this voice so much over the past decades.

[10:17] Laura Camien: And I am not talking about Cher's voice or Barbara's voice or Judy's voice or Elton's voice or Madonna's voice or Freddie's voice or Aretha's voice.

[10:25] Susan Blackwell: Oh my gosh.

[10:26] Laura Camien: You may not know the name attached to this voice, but oh my god, do you know this voice?

[10:32] Susan Blackwell: You have heard this voice when you have danced at clubs and at wedding receptions. You've heard it when you are working out on the treadmill.

[10:41] Laura Camien: You've heard it in commercials for Chevy Trucks and Uber Eats and Pringles and Downey.

[10:46] Susan Blackwell: You have heard it during the halftime shows at sporting events, and you have heard it playing under music videos.

[10:53] Laura Camien: But if you haven't been paying close attention, you may not have realized that the voice you've heard in all those disparate places actually belongs to the same person.

[11:03] Susan Blackwell: Oh my gosh. That's quite an introduction, isn't it?

[11:07] Laura Camien: Who is this person?

[11:10] Susan Blackwell: That extraordinary voice is generated by a person named Martha Wash.

[11:16] Laura Camien: Laura Camien, does the name Martha Wash ring a bell?

[11:20] Laura Camien: Not a single ringtone.

[11:24] Susan Blackwell: I'm guessing, which is fun. This is fun for me because I feel like I get to introduce you to the world of Martha Wash.

[11:30] Laura Camien: But for many people who are listening to this, who even saw the title of this in their podcast feed, you know Martha Wash.

[11:37] Susan Blackwell: There are people on this planet who know and love Martha Wash.

[11:41] Laura Camien: I believe it. Laura, you might know Martha Wash from The Weather Girls, their song, It's Raining Men.

[11:48] Susan Blackwell: Oh my gosh.

[11:49] Laura Camien: You know that big beautiful voice that sings the central chorus.

[11:53] Susan Blackwell: I can't, I'm sorry.

[11:54] Laura Camien: Oh yeah. I'm not going to be able to sample it or sound like it, but that's Raining Men.

[12:01] Susan Blackwell: I know that voice.

[12:02] Laura Camien: Beautiful voice is Martha Wash.

[12:04] Susan Blackwell: Oh my gosh.

[12:06] Laura Camien: But you might also know her voice from I mean crazy iconic musical phrases. Here's probably the most famous Martha Wash.

[12:16] Susan Blackwell: I'm gonna sing it many octaves down, and I am not gonna sing it well. But the moment I sing it, you're gonna be like, I know Martha Wash.

[12:25] Laura Camien: Sorry, everybody.

[12:26] Susan Blackwell: Everybody dance now.

[12:28] Laura Camien: Now I mean, come on.

[12:30] Susan Blackwell: Now, but that's Martha in your imagination. That big, big full voice that sings that. There's so many dance hits. Um, there's one.

[12:39] Susan Blackwell: This may, I don't know if you'll remember this, but there's this song called "Everybody, Everybody" that goes, everybody, everybody, everybody. There's a song called "Strike It Up," but strike it up. That's sort of all of those club land hits. I will not go on singing it. But her voice is unbelievable and it is all her own. It is so distinct, it is so unique. But if I were gonna compare it to a sound that might be familiar to other people, the closest that I personally could come is Aretha Franklin. It is that big, the range is that wide, it is that nuanced and influenced by so much, like so many styles, it's capable of so much. I mean that with the highest praise, but I'm so struck by how once you key into the sound of Martha Wash, you realize how much her voice and how many of those musical phrases are threaded into the fabric of our culture.

It becomes so recognizable. After this, I want you to Google Martha Wash and then notice how once you have identified her voice, you will hear it everywhere. Oh my gosh. But why don't we know more about her? Why is it that when I say the name Martha Wash, a clear visual image doesn't pop into your mind? This is at the heart of the spark that I want to get into today.

[14:12] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh, I'm on the edge of my seat.

[14:15] Susan Blackwell: We're gonna turn back the hands of time. It's 1990. The year is 1990. I think I would have been in college then.

[14:27] Laura Camien: You're in your first year of college.

[14:27] Susan Blackwell: You're in college. Martha Wash is in a hotel room. She is relaxing before a gig that she has. The TV is on, music videos are playing. And then all of a sudden, from across the room, Martha hears this amazing voice coming out of her hotel room TV. She perks up and she starts watching this music video. And the amazing voice that she hears is coming out of this thin 90s model type looking woman. But you know that song.

[15:01] Laura Camien: Nope.

[15:02] Susan Blackwell: It's a 90s dance club jam that I just sang a little bit of for you called "Everybody, Everybody." Everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody by an outfit called Black Box. And Martha hears this voice, and Martha gets really mad because the image on the TV is of this French model. But the voice coming out of that model's face belonged to Martha Wash.

[15:29] Laura Camien: No way.

[15:31] Susan Blackwell: So she gets on the phone, she calls her manager and says, "You will not believe this. Black Box has got a video of this girl. My vocals are being heard, and she is lip syncing to it." Can you imagine? Like you're this striving background singer. You've had some hits with the Weather Girls, and all of a sudden you are sitting in a hotel room and you hear your voice coming out of the television, but out of somebody else's face.

[16:00] Laura Camien: I would lose my mind.

[16:03] Susan Blackwell: You just lose your fucking shit.

[16:04] Laura Camien: Yes.

[16:05] Susan Blackwell: So when that happened, it felt like a crime had been perpetrated against her. Like her voice had been stolen from her. But here's the fucked up thing. It wasn't a crime.

[16:16] Laura Camien: Did the agent sell it?

[16:17] Susan Blackwell: No, but it's a good guess. At the time, there weren't any explicit laws about stealing vocals. This is right at the beginning of sampling and all that stuff.

[16:30] Laura Camien: No way.

[16:31] Susan Blackwell: But here's the even more fucked up thing. It wasn't the first time this had happened to her, and it wouldn't be the last. So, Laura Camien, if you do an internet search for Martha Wash, just like casually quickly, you will pull up several music videos of MTV and club hits that feature Martha Wash's voice lip-synced by women who appear to be these sort of like skinny 90s models. Did they make those videos and credit Martha's voice? Or were they trying to genuinely pass off this is the woman who's singing this?

[17:10] Laura Camien: Oh my god.

[17:11] Susan Blackwell: Door number two.

[17:12] Laura Camien: Door number two.

[17:14] Susan Blackwell: And Martha even says, I this isn't on my spark, but she even says, "Did they think that they would just slide this one by? Did they think that they would just like no one would notice and they'd get away with this?" It is fucking upsetting.

[17:28] Laura Camien: It's gonna get worse.

[17:29] Susan Blackwell: Okay. Before it gets better. So on the Crime Show podcast, host Emma Cortland talks about how for Martha Wash, that day in that hotel room where she sat and watched her voice coming out of somebody else's face may have been one of the worst days of Martha's life. But what Martha couldn't see yet is that that experience was going to be the part of something much bigger. And it really was. Martha Wash became a central figure in the fight for vocalists to receive credit and participate in the profit made from recordings of their voices.

[18:05] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[18:06] Susan Blackwell: And this is the nineties.

[18:07] Laura Camien: This is the nineties.

[18:10] Susan Blackwell: This is the nineties.

[18:12] Laura Camien: This is the nineties.

[18:14] Susan Blackwell: So just a little bit more about Martha and her journey. On rxmusic.com, Michael Primiani wrote about how in the 80s Martha experienced success with the Weather Girls, especially that song, "It's Raining Men."

[18:28] Laura Camien: That was so bad.

[18:29] Susan Blackwell: Sorry, everybody. Fun side spark, "It's Raining Men." Here's a little piece of trivia for Trivia Night. If we ever get to go back to the pub for Trivia Night. Co-written by Paul Schaefer. David Letterman's band leader co-wrote "It's Raining Men."

[18:42] Laura Camien: I never knew that.

[18:43] Susan Blackwell: Good job. Isn't that fun job? Good job, Paul Schaefer. I just want to say fun fact. Upon moving to New York, I auditioned for a show and got cast in um it was a Tony and Tina's wedding ripoff.

[18:55] Laura Camien: Yes.

[18:55] Susan Blackwell: So it was the Godfather's Michigana wedding. So it was like um a Jewish groom and the Godfather's daughter getting married.

[19:03] Laura Camien: I would pay money to have a ticket to that tonight with you in it.

[19:06] Susan Blackwell: Zeus, I'm telling you. But the penultimate moment in the show was when the bride's sister sang "It's Raining Men."

[19:16] Laura Camien: So you know that song well.

[19:18] Susan Blackwell: So I know that song very, very well. And I have vivid images of from this show.

[19:24] Laura Camien: I bet you attached to that song.

[19:26] Susan Blackwell: But I hope there was strong choreo.

[19:28] Laura Camien: It is no joke.

[19:30] Susan Blackwell: And it's the wedding dance floor song. I mean, like it gets everybody up and moving.

[19:35] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[19:35] Susan Blackwell: And to the credit of the people who wrote and produced "It's Raining Men," that was a fully sanctioned, like Martha Wash was recognized and compensated for her contribution to that song. I just want to have said that. So she has that success with the Weather Girls. And then in 1988, the Weather Girls disbanded, and Martha began working as a solo vocalist. And in 1989, she was recruited by this Italian house music group called Black Box to demo six house music tracks. And for those not familiar with the term demo, to demo something is when a vocalist is paid a flat fee, say about a thousand dollars sometimes to lay down a sample lead track. And then that song can be shopped around, and then that lead vocal track is ultimately replaced by your star vocalist.

[20:29] Laura Camien: So demos are intended to be used as examples or guide tracks for other singers.

[20:36] Susan Blackwell: Like a sales tool of like we're trying to sell this song to someone. We need it sung well. So that's it. Sung really well, and then they'll find the replacement. And so vocalists do this a lot, and most series vocalists that I know, they have a set fee that they do for demos and it happens all the time. So this is part of Martha's day-to-day butter and bread income. Black Box pay Martha this little fee. I think it was probably about a thousand dollars. And then, without her consent, the group used all six of Martha's demoed vocals on their debut album entitled "Dreamland." And many of those tracks charted, including "Everybody, Everybody." And since Martha was only paid a flat fee to be a session vocalist, she is not credited.

She was not credited for any of the songs, nor was she paid royalties for their airplay and usage. So basically, Black Box was rocking a loophole. The understanding was we're just using these as sample tracks, as guide tracks, they'll be removed and replaced. And then they didn't remove and replace them. They released them. This album did really well. And she's like not credited or acknowledged or paid for any of it.

[21:53] Laura Camien: No way.

[21:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And it wasn't illegal. It was in this weird gray area because it was a little bit wild west. It hadn't been codified or, you know, litigated yet. So Martha was furious and hurt and upset, as you can imagine. It can be argued that the popularity of these songs, it's largely due to her unbelievably special vocals.

[22:19] Laura Camien: Yes.

[22:20] Susan Blackwell: But again, not given proper credit or the remuneration that she deserved. And I'm sorry to say it was not the last time it would happen. When Martha was working with the Weather Girls, the accompanyers, the music director, the pianist was this guy named David Cole. And Cole and his partner, Robert Clavelis, recognized Martha's undeniable talent and recorded a variety of vocal demos. Now remember, imagine you've worked with these people before. This was a guy who was a musical director on a project that you worked on. And then they're like, "Hey, can you just record some demos?" And they're like, "Yeah, I'll come over Saturday. I'll record those." Like you make a little bit of, you know, pocket money. So they take this variety of vocal demos, and then under the name CNC Music Factory, they kicked off 1990 with one of the biggest dance hits of all time. It's called "Gonna Make You Sweat," but you probably know it as "Everybody Dance Now."

[23:14] Laura Camien: Everybody dance now.

[23:16] Susan Blackwell: Uh huh. And she's not in their video, and she's not in that band, and she's not any part of it. We're gonna get to it.

[23:23] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[23:24] Susan Blackwell: We're gonna get to it. I'll tell you though, I this isn't in my spark, but again, I love celebrating Martha Wash. And there's a great interview with her on the Crime Show podcast.

[23:35] Laura Camien: Is she still alive?

[23:37] Susan Blackwell: Oh, she's alive and creating, and we are gonna get into it.

[23:41] Laura Camien: Oh, Martha Wash!

[23:42] Susan Blackwell: Okay, great. So she's talked about how when she went into that recording session where they did "Everybody Dance Now," aka "Gonna Make You Sweat," it was above even her range, like her gigantic range. She said it was so high for her. She felt like she was hanging by her fingertips from the ceiling to get those notes out. And now when you go back and listen to it, uh huh, and they even solo it, like where they just play her track on the Crime Show podcast.

[24:11] Laura Camien: Oh, it is like talk about sparks flying.

[24:17] Susan Blackwell: It is so hot. It is crazy. And I really don't believe there's many people on the planet who could produce that sound.

[24:26] Laura Camien: Wow.

[24:27] Susan Blackwell: At those pitches, I mean, come on. And then she continues singing with that energy throughout that track. It is a super feat that she pulls off.

[24:38] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh.

[24:40] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it's amazing. So that mega hit, "Everybody Dance Now," was produced by splicing together a bunch of different demo tracks that Martha had recorded for David Cole five months earlier for that flat fee. Martha had no knowledge as to what would become of the vocal session. And to add insult to injury and further rob Martha of her visibility, the music video starred a tall, thin, 90s modely looking woman lip syncing to Martha's vocals again.

[25:09] Laura Camien: Again.

[25:10] Susan Blackwell: Again. And this done by someone who presumably she trusted at least a little bit, a friend, someone she worked with before.

[25:17] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[25:18] Susan Blackwell: Wow. So it was after that video came out that Martha was sitting in her hotel room and saw the Black Box video for "Everybody, Everybody" with a different French model lip syncing those vocals.

[25:29] Laura Camien: And then they did it again and again and again in the videos for "Strike It Up," "I Don't Know Anybody Else," and "Fantasy."

[25:38] Susan Blackwell: This is CNC Music Factory.

[25:40] Laura Camien: This is a combo platter between all of them.

[25:44] Susan Blackwell: It's three groups that did this to her over a series of several songs.

[25:49] Laura Camien: Oh my god.

[25:50] Susan Blackwell: Can you imagine you are this athlete? You are this gift to the world.

[25:57] Laura Camien: And time and time again, and she says that in interviews, she's like, it's like they wanted my voice, but they didn't want me.

[26:04] Susan Blackwell: And she talks about how it's like when you're a little kid on the playground, you're passed over, you're not picked, like again and again and again.

[26:13] Laura Camien: And it's crazy, Laura. When you watch these videos back to back and you're just like, this playbook is crazy of these really, really like famous chart-topping dance hits, and it's a different model in each one.

[26:29] Susan Blackwell: It's crazy.

[26:31] Laura Camien: It's so weird.

[26:32] Susan Blackwell: It is just bizarre.

[26:33] Laura Camien: It makes my blood boil.

[26:35] Susan Blackwell: I'm just feeling I'm just sitting here feeling angry. I just want to recognize that.

[26:39] Laura Camien: Well, let's lean into it. Let's lead into it. Tell me more.

[26:42] Susan Blackwell: When writer Michael Premiani asked Martha why she believed these groups chose to have models lip-syncing her vocals, she said it could have possibly been my size.

[26:53] Laura Camien: And she said they wanted a different person to be at the forefront.

[26:57] Susan Blackwell: She went on to say, I've dealt with this all my life. I wasn't going to let it get in the way of everything that I was doing.

[27:03] Laura Camien: But to the music industry, sometimes image is everything.

[27:07] Susan Blackwell: It's just so fucked up. Like we were discussing that just this week.

[27:11] Laura Camien: And this is a big topic to unpack, and it's woven through our culture.

[27:15] Susan Blackwell: But this pressure put on, especially women to make themselves physically smaller.

[27:22] Laura Camien: The expectation of thinness and this ubiquitous diet culture is such a big old bag of bullshit.

[27:31] Susan Blackwell: And it's a big bag of bullshit that's particularly prevalent in the entertainment industry.

[27:36] Laura Camien: It really is. And I'm sitting here astonished because I almost did a spark, Suze, I almost did a spark on the anti-diet riot club.

[27:44] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[27:45] Laura Camien: And this entire movement. So please, please know that I'm 100% with you.

[27:52] Susan Blackwell: We were talking about this with one of our beloved clients, and we were talking about how for many people this is a blind spot and how fat phobia is rooted in racism.

[28:05] Laura Camien: It's a big topic and it's another spark for another day.

[28:08] Susan Blackwell: And in the words of Sonia Renee Taylor, the body is not an apology, but this is the culture and the industry that Martha Wash was contending with.

[28:16] Laura Camien: I mean, it's so angering.

[28:18] Susan Blackwell: It is so blood boiling.

[28:20] Laura Camien: It's so angering.

[28:21] Susan Blackwell: I'm so thankful to know that we seem to be working collectively or a group of people working collectively to move us into a new way of thinking, but for so long it has been.

[28:35] Laura Camien: It is so again, in the same way that Martha Wash's vocals are woven into the fabric of our culture.

[28:43] Susan Blackwell: This is also woven into the fabric of our culture.

[28:46] Laura Camien: And I loved it when our clients said this is a real blind spot for a lot of people.

[28:51] Susan Blackwell: And I think that's true.

[28:53] Laura Camien: But I'm super interested in discussing it.

[28:56] Susan Blackwell: I think maybe I will do a spark about it.

[28:58] Laura Camien: Do Anti Diet Riot Club, the beauty myth that traces the history back through feminism and pornography, and yeah, all I mean, all of it.

[29:09] Susan Blackwell: It's everywhere. Spark, spark, sparks.

[29:11] Laura Camien: It's enraging to think that a woman with this talent and skill could have been held back based on perception.

[29:21] Susan Blackwell: And it's really just a few gatekeepers' ideas of what they think other people will think of this body size.

[29:28] Laura Camien: I mean, we've talked a lot on this podcast about like what we consume, but that messaging gets ingested by many of us.

[29:37] Susan Blackwell: And then we just assume it to be, yeah, that's how it is.

[29:41] Laura Camien: And it is bull fucking shit.

[29:44] Susan Blackwell: It's bullfunk shit.

[29:45] Laura Camien: That's another spark for another day.

[29:47] Susan Blackwell: Back to Martha Wash. On the Crime Story podcast, Emma Cortland talks about how businesses of all kinds rely on a certain amount of consistency and predictability.

[29:58] Laura Camien: But people and creative people in particular are neither consistent nor predictable.

[30:02] Susan Blackwell: Creatives, musicians, vocalists have thoughts and ideas and feelings, and they're not always obedient puppets.

[30:09] Laura Camien: They want to try new things. They want to grow and expand.

[30:12] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[30:12] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[30:13] Susan Blackwell: And so I think in the music industry, like in many industries, including, you know, some industries that we are closely involved in, talent is often a dime a dozen.

[30:21] Laura Camien: So it's sort of like if you're not working, we'll replace you, Cog.

[30:25] Susan Blackwell: Like we'll replace you.

[30:26] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[30:26] Susan Blackwell: So if you an artist's humanity gets in the way, we'll just replace him.

[30:30] Laura Camien: But if you have undeniable, irreplaceable talent, maybe you would never be entirely disposable.

[30:38] Susan Blackwell: And Martha Walsh has the goods.

[30:41] Laura Camien: Martha Wash has that undeniable voice.

[30:45] Susan Blackwell: And also Martha Wash has a very good lawyer.

[30:54] Laura Camien: Please tell me.

[30:56] Susan Blackwell: This is what we call the turn, Laura Camien.

[30:59] Laura Camien: This is the turn you've been craving.

[31:01] Susan Blackwell: Yes, you really left me in the pain point for a long time.

[31:05] Laura Camien: But I'm happy about the turn.

[31:07] Susan Blackwell: So one of Martha's oldest friends was a veteran music attorney named Stephen Brown.

[31:13] Laura Camien: When Martha called Steven and told him about these music videos, he said, not only are we going to get them, but you're going to be famous because I'm going to do this publicly.

[31:25] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[31:25] Laura Camien: Which I think is really interesting because he's not just saying money, yes, credit, yes, but also visibility and you getting your due.

[31:35] Susan Blackwell: Take up your space.

[31:38] Laura Camien: Take up the space.

[31:40] Susan Blackwell: Stephen Brown, they were old friends, like from the 70s.

[31:45] Laura Camien: What a good friend.

[31:46] Susan Blackwell: We're gonna do this.

[31:48] Laura Camien: What a good friend.

[31:50] Susan Blackwell: He also had been, it sounds like an entertainment lawyer with a real bone to pick with the music industry and had gone to bat as a lawyer for some real, real famous singers.

[32:02] Laura Camien: So he was not fucking around.

[32:04] Susan Blackwell: Martha and Steven also had the advantage of all of this happening hot on the heels of a lot of public outrage towards the music industry, served up in the form of the Millie Vanilli lip syncing scandal.

[32:20] Laura Camien: So that's the backdrop.

[32:22] Susan Blackwell: And for those of you who weren't alive then, Millie Vanilli was a European duo.

[32:26] Laura Camien: There were two guys who looked like you guessed it, 90s models.

[32:32] Susan Blackwell: And these two guys who they had won Grammys, they had won Grammys.

[32:38] Laura Camien: They had just been caught lip syncing during a live televised outdoor concert when their recording skipped.

[32:46] Susan Blackwell: So I don't know if you remember this.

[32:48] Laura Camien: Remember this footage, Laura Camien?

[32:50] Susan Blackwell: I remember it well.

[32:51] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[32:51] Susan Blackwell: If you're a certain age, you remember it well.

[32:54] Laura Camien: But I think that for some people listening, we may even have to explain.

[32:58] Susan Blackwell: Okay. There was a time, not even just Millie Vanilli, but there was a time when the expectation was if we are buying your music for the sound of your voice, your voice better sound like your voice.

[33:12] Laura Camien: And you better be able to deliver the goods.

[33:14] Susan Blackwell: If we are paying money to attend your concert and you're up there, that is the expectation.

[33:19] Laura Camien: Now I just want to like point counterpoint this by saying if you're Janet Jackson and you are up there dancing your ass off, y'all are high if you think a vocalist can dance that hard and maintain exactly.

[33:33] Susan Blackwell: Some can. Our little baby Sutton Foster is an example of somebody who can do that, but she can like just tap her ass off and then take a breath and sing.

[33:41] Laura Camien: But it is that's a that those are athletes.

[33:44] Susan Blackwell: But these are the times of like, wasn't it um Ashley Simpson who went on Saturday Night Live and had they played the wrong track?

[33:44] Laura Camien: They played the wrong track.

[33:52] Susan Blackwell: She was gonna lip sync, and the world was completely shocked and appalled.

[33:57] Laura Camien: And her career took an enormous hit.

[34:00] Susan Blackwell: Some might even say a death blow from it.

[34:03] Laura Camien: Yeah, I was thinking about that when I was writing The Spark because the name Saturday Night Live implies that what we are seeing is live television, live music.

[34:14] Susan Blackwell: And I remember I think it was the very next show that they did. You too was the musical guest, and they made a point of demonstrating that they were singing live.

[34:24] Laura Camien: Uh was a thing.

[34:26] Susan Blackwell: I think it's important to point out because now we have become accustomed to normalizing lip syncing, and also potentially with auto-tune, your voice may not even be capable of sounding like this.

[34:40] Laura Camien: We're in a whole other era.

[34:42] Susan Blackwell: We're in a different world that which makes it all the more relevant that Martha Wash could do what Martha Wash could do.

[34:49] Laura Camien: Yes, because we are not talking about a time when everyone could manipulate their voice and make it sound like they could do things that they couldn't do.

[34:59] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yeah.

[34:59] Laura Camien: For the youngsters who weren't around for it, Millie Vanilli was on stage live at this concert.

[35:04] Susan Blackwell: I think it was an MTV sponsored event.

[35:07] Laura Camien: And if you can picture it, they look like two, they were beautiful, beautiful, model-y looking dudes.

[35:14] Susan Blackwell: And they're doing they're like sort of like dancing to the like the running man, that dance, and their biggest hit, the chorus went, girl, you know it's true.

[35:25] Laura Camien: Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, I love you.

[35:27] Susan Blackwell: And the track skipped.

[35:29] Laura Camien: And so it went, girl, you know it's girl, you know it's girl, you know it's girl, you know it's always painful.

[35:35] Susan Blackwell: Remember, it was painful.

[35:37] Laura Camien: And they one of them just running manned right off the stage.

[35:41] Susan Blackwell: And in that moment, people discovered not only that Millie Vanilli didn't sing alive, they didn't actually sing at all.

[35:49] Laura Camien: They were just attractive lip syncers.

[35:52] Susan Blackwell: According to Rolling Stone, the voices of Millie Vanilli were actually uncredited studio musicians.

[35:59] Laura Camien: And when that happened, not only was their Grammy for Best New Artist revoked, I don't know if you remember this, Laura, but fans filed a class action civil suit against the group for fraud.

[36:13] Susan Blackwell: I did not remember that.

[36:15] Laura Camien: Well, that happened, and that public outrage was the backdrop for the lawsuit that Martha and her attorney Steven Brown filed in the Los Angeles Superior Court against the producers behind CNC Music Factory and Sony Music Entertainment for fraud, deceptive packaging, and commercial appropriation.

[36:35] Susan Blackwell: I think this is like where they first were defining if I record a demo for you, and it's just meant to be used for internal use only, so that you can have it as a guide or a sample so that artists can decide if they want to purchase that song or not, and then you put it on a commercial album and you release it.

[36:54] Laura Camien: That is called commercial appropriation.

[36:56] Susan Blackwell: So essentially, talk about a spark.

[36:59] Laura Camien: Wow.

[36:59] Susan Blackwell: Steven took the pain and anger that was sparking off of Martha Wash, the pain and anger that she was feeling in response to this recurring misuse of her voice.

[37:10] Laura Camien: And in his words, he drafted up an incendiary lawsuit.

[37:15] Susan Blackwell: How's that for a fire metaphor?

[37:18] Laura Camien: And he says it was true.

[37:20] Susan Blackwell: I mean, there was no hyperbole in it, but I knew how to write it in a way that it would read like a press release.

[37:27] Laura Camien: And then just for good measure, he also issued a hell of a press release.

[37:32] Susan Blackwell: So he essentially let the justice system and the public know that the voice that was making their booties bounce was none other than Martha Wash.

[37:42] Laura Camien: And I just want to underscore this point, Laura Camien.

[37:45] Susan Blackwell: It is all about great storytelling.

[37:48] Laura Camien: In a screenplay, in a novel, on a website, when it comes to describing scientific matters in a lawsuit, in a press release, it is storytelling.

[37:59] Susan Blackwell: It's storytelling. Now they have the truth on their side, which is a beautiful thing, but it's storytelling. Here's a little more goodness for you. According to an article on Rxmusic.com, Martha and her lawyer also sued RCA Records and Black Box for similar charges. The RCA case was settled out of court with RCA agreeing to pay Martha Wash a substantial fee for lost wages, sign her to an eight-album recording contract, and finance her national tour. Additionally, new released copies of Black Box's album credited Martha. Martha and her lawyer also won the Sony case for an undisclosed amount of money. And one of the results of the Sony settlement was that a disclaimer had to be affixed to the airings of "Everybody Dance Now" music video, correcting that the singer of the song was Martha Wash.

The visualization you are seeing is Zelma Davis. So if you go and you look at her videos online, all of them in the captions, they say, "This is the voice of Martha Wash," and the other, "this is a lip syncer." You are seeing a lip syncer. Wow. So Martha fought for credit and she won in several ways. For herself, she got paid what she was owed. She received credit. She got herself a record deal. She got her tour financed. But for others, for others, she changed the landscape of the recording industry. Martha's lawsuits spawned a crackdown on fraud in the music industry. Oh my God. Her groundbreaking legal cases set an important precedent for intellectual property. According to Rolling Stone, federal legislation was introduced following the settlements to mandate vocal credits on all albums and music videos.

Further legislation aimed to seal the door on stolen vocals for good. Legislators in New York and New Jersey passed laws requiring musical performances to disclose if a performer is lip syncing. And all of this is rooted in Martha's fight for proper credit. She said, "We fought for it, and now it is the standard as opposed to someone singing in the background and not getting any credit." And many artists and journalists trace all of this project and protection for creatives back to Martha and her courage to use her voice. Woo! Get it, Martha Wash. What a powerful person? So these days, Martha is doing all sorts of creative things. She's making music. She's got a great interview show on YouTube called "10 Minutes with Martha Wash."

She hosted a BBC documentary podcast about the amazing women who contributed to club music. In 2020, she released an album called "Love and Conflict." She is known as the queen of club land with, I think it's 12 or 13 chart toppers. She is a creative lighthouse. Wow. Holy shit. Holy Martha Wash. And finally, she's been unleashed and allowed to shine her light at everywhere in any way that she seems, you know, interested in doing.

[41:22] Laura Camien: Yeah. Thank fucking God. She's one of those people that she's been in the entertainment industry her entire life, like since she was a kid. She's been in the entertainment industry, and she's seen the ups, the downs, and she says she's like, "It is a bitch." Like show business is a bitch. But I feel like through all of it, everything that I've seen of her and everything I've read of her, she is just like undeniably gifted. Yes. But also, she just seems like a really great person, and she seems like she'd be fun to be around, even after all of that bullshitery. Like she seems like she's got a great spirit, and she's just amazing.

[42:01] Susan Blackwell: Well, and the like the balls that it takes to go up against those behemoths. That's no small feat. And I'm glad she had a good friend, a trusted friend at her side and skilled lawyer. But not everyone would take on the job of like, "I'm gonna set this right for me and pave the way." Yeah, I'm gonna correct this wrong for everyone. And she did. That takes it takes some moxie.

[42:28] Laura Camien: Yeah. She's got life force.

[42:30] Susan Blackwell: She has got life force. Oh my god, life. And I think that life force is what we hear. That we respond to vibrationally, you know, in her in her voice.

[42:40] Laura Camien: Yeah. It's amazing. So what do we make of it, Laura Camien?

[42:44] Susan Blackwell: I posit this. Use your voice. Use it. Maybe you use it to make your own beautiful music. Maybe you use it to make music that you own. That you own. Use your voice to stand up for yourself and for others and for what is right, which God, when I hear and listen and read about what Martha and her lawyer Steven did, the amount of capacity it would take, and the time and the years and the energy and the worry and the intellect to navigate a situation like that seems like an overwhelming project to me. But what an amazing thing they accomplished by using their voices. By using their voices. By standing up. Just amazing.

[43:34] Laura Camien: Amen. And thank goodness that they did. I want to say, creatives, read your contracts. Know what you're entering into. I'm guilty of, you know, it's like, can you sign your contract before you go to set? And I'm just like, uh, I don't have time to read a five-page small print contract. Sometimes I don't really know what I'm signing, and that's not good. So I'm saying this to you, but I'm saying this to me too. Let's all read our contracts. Get paid what you're owed. Value yourself, get paid what you're owed. It's akin to valuing yourself, but have integrity. I mean, I know we're not always in a position to turn down jobs, but if you are asked to take a job wherein you know your work cancels out another person's artistic gift, maybe think about turning that down and saying that's just not right.

[44:26] Susan Blackwell: I mean, I think about those guys, CNC Music Factory producers, and I'm like, you had to know what you were doing was so shady. And they went on national TV and accepted awards and were like, "We want to thank you guys for not believing all this lip-syncing bullshit." Like they did that. Oh my God. Then I stand firm with have integrity.

[44:49] Laura Camien: Yeah. Fucking have integrity.

[44:52] Susan Blackwell: It's interesting though, because at the end of the day, I feel like they found their way, they made peace. That lawsuit got settled, and I feel like they found their way back to each other because I think she has toured with them. So maybe they all put on their big boy and big girl panties and also realized it would be mutually beneficial if they all work together.

[45:11] Laura Camien: Well, we're not incapable of forgiveness and the ability to see, yeah, could this could this work out favorably for everyone?

[45:19] Susan Blackwell: Everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody. No one would mistake those sounds for the sounds of Martha Wash. Another thing that I thought was interesting about all of this is with technology developing, as you were saying, Laura, there's always sort of this uncharted territory that the law hasn't caught up with. And on the crime show podcast, they actually conclude with this really interesting moment where they share a deep fake of a voice we all recognize, which is Jay-Z, but it's a computer mimicking Jay-Z's voice reading a Hamlet soliloquy. And Jay-Z has gone to YouTube and said, "Please take that down." And YouTube is like, "Present a better case about why we should take it down." Because the law hasn't reached there yet.

The law is not covering that yet. Deep fakes and recognizable voices being mimicked by deep fakes. If there's enough recorded audio footage out there that the computer can like listen to it and then recreate it right now, that is not against the law in the same way that it wasn't against the law when these guys did this to Martha Wash's vocal recordings.

[46:38] Laura Camien: So you're saying we need Jay-Z to use his voice to change that law.

[46:43] Susan Blackwell: Well, it's gonna have to be somebody who is really willing to take a stand and fight for change. I mean, this can't be understated. Choosing to go to court over anything, it's an agreement like, "Okay, this is gonna be years of my life. This is going to be time consuming. This is going to have ups and downs. This is going to exhaust me emotionally and be expensive." And not everybody has those deep pockets.

[47:12] Laura Camien: That's right.

[47:13] Susan Blackwell: And yet I am willing to do it.

[47:15] Laura Camien: Yeah. That's part of what it takes. And I'm sure that's only part of it.

[47:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So anyway, I guess I want to leave with this. I wanna, after all of that, the ups and downs of all of it, I just would love for everybody to Google Martha Wash or use the search engine of your choosing and just bask in the glory of the Martha Wash of it all.

[47:39] Laura Camien: I already did it, and she's stunning.

[47:41] Susan Blackwell: Amazing. I believe she's also featured in the "20 Feet from Stardom" documentary about studio background singers, which is a great documentary. She's really something special. So go take a big drink of Martha Wash. She is wonderful. And that voice do it. Is undeniable.

[47:58] Laura Camien: Yeah, I'm gonna check out some of her newer albums as well.

[48:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, she's really special. That's my takeaway.

[48:07] Laura Camien: Oh my god. Her story needs to be shared, Suze.

[48:11] Susan Blackwell: Thank you so much for the spark.

[48:15] Laura Camien: It is my joy. It is my joy. Brain is sparking off about this.

[48:20] Susan Blackwell: I know. I wanted to do it justice because she's amazing.

[48:20] Laura Camien: She's amazing.

[48:25] Susan Blackwell: Ah, Camien. Well done, Suze.

[48:28] Laura Camien: I guess that's it.

[48:32] Susan Blackwell: Oh okay. I'm gonna be thinking about Martha Wash for a long time, but that's it for now. I'm gonna go listen to some Martha Wash.

[48:39] Laura Camien: Just listen to that.

[48:41] Susan Blackwell: Just oh my god. Have a body. Like it is crazy.

[48:44] Laura Camien: Amazing.

[48:49] Susan Blackwell: She's amazing.

[48:50] Laura Camien: All right. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape people. And as always, we hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file.

[48:58] Susan Blackwell: Listen to us. If there is a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life, you can email us at thesparkfile@gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[49:12] Laura Camien: That's right. And we'll even take your feedback if you have any. But you know the price of admission. First, you gotta share a creative risk that you've taken recently.

[49:21] Susan Blackwell: You can follow us on social at The Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and come on. You know you want a five-star review. This podcast. It really helps other listeners to find us.

[49:33] Laura Camien: Also, if you like this podcast, we do hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, you'll be hearing from our lawyer.

[49:40] Susan Blackwell: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[49:50] Laura Camien: It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[49:55] Susan Blackwell: You know you gotta take it and make it.

[50:00] Laura Camien: Everybody dance now.

[50:07] Susan Blackwell: When I boge into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files. Could be something that I wanna take or how I want to be.

[50:22] Laura Camien: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[50:26] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[50:31] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.