This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in my spark files.

[0:14] Laura Camien: Spark files to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark style.

[0:26] Laura Camien: Spark.

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark slide.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, where we believe that everyone is creative.

[0:41] Susan Blackwell: But smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Laura Camien: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:47] Laura Camien: We are creativity coaches who help people fear less, create more, and bring their creative visions to life.

[0:53] Susan Blackwell: If you're an OG member of the Sparks File community, welcome back, Sparkler.

[0:57] Laura Camien: If you're joining us for the first time, hubba huba hubba, welcome.

[1:02] Susan Blackwell: Hubba Hubba.

[1:04] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're gonna join a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[1:10] Susan Blackwell: But you might be asking yourself, what exactly is a Sparks File?

[1:10] Laura Camien: A Spark File is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:19] Susan Blackwell: If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you wanna be making stuff all the time, you know if you're not careful, your campfire of creativity can flicker out.

[1:28] Laura Camien: But don't despair.

[1:30] Susan Blackwell: We're collecting kindling in the form of fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity to light a fire under our collective asses to make things like this podcast.

[1:44] Laura Camien: Or some of the no joke, no exaggeration, greatest writing of our time.

[1:49] Susan Blackwell: Ooh.

[1:51] Laura Camien: Oh, oh, I can't wait.

[1:52] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[1:56] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: That means we have more sparks than we can possibly use in this lifetime.

[2:04] Laura Camien: Do we ever?

[2:06] Susan Blackwell: So if something lights you up, we encourage you to take that thing and make something out of it.

[2:12] Laura Camien: Without further ado, let's open up the Sparks File.

[2:17] Susan Blackwell: Laura Camien.

[2:19] Laura Camien: Susie Q.

[2:20] Susan Blackwell: How are you doing?

[2:21] Laura Camien: I'm happy.

[2:22] Susan Blackwell: I love a spark day.

[2:24] Laura Camien: I love a spark day.

[2:26] Susan Blackwell: I can't wait because you are sparking me today.

[2:29] Laura Camien: And by the indication that you gave in that little intro there, I think I'm gonna be intrigued.

[2:34] Susan Blackwell: I'm so excited about the spark, Laura.

[2:37] Laura Camien: And it has been everything.

[2:40] Susan Blackwell: I have had to harness all my powers of restraint to not tell you everything about the spark really for this recording.

[2:51] Laura Camien: I've just been bursting with this spark.

[2:54] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm so excited.

[2:56] Laura Camien: Yeah, it's good that we haven't had time to talk.

[2:59] Susan Blackwell: We were just telling someone the other day, like we're such nerds.

[3:02] Laura Camien: Like, we talk all day as we're working on the Sparks File business, which is joyful and fun, and then at the end of all that talking, we're like, do you want to talk some more for like two more hours?

[3:13] Susan Blackwell: Because these other things are happening.

[3:16] Laura Camien: And it's like we always need a slumber party at the end of the week to talk about all the things we talked about.

[3:21] Susan Blackwell: Fun life stuff.

[3:22] Laura Camien: You'll be like, I got a piece of furniture a week and a half ago, and I'm like, a week and a half ago.

[3:27] Susan Blackwell: How did you hold that in?

[3:29] Laura Camien: Very the lead, but now you get to tell me everything.

[3:34] Susan Blackwell: I'm so excited.

[3:35] Laura Camien: So I'm gonna jump in. Is that okay?

[3:37] Susan Blackwell: Yes, please jump in.

[3:39] Laura Camien: I'm doing it. So, one of my favorite quotes of all time is from a commencement address that Toni Morrison delivered at Barnard College in 1979.

[3:49] Susan Blackwell: In that address, she shared many wonderful concepts, and because she's Toni Morrison, those concepts were shared via wonderful language.

[3:58] Laura Camien: The quote that I have returned to and repeated time and time again is something she said to those graduates and to all those assembled at Barnard in 1979.

[4:10] Susan Blackwell: She said, You are moving in the direction of freedom, and the function of freedom is to free somebody else.

[4:10] Laura Camien: The function of freedom is to free somebody else.

[4:27] Susan Blackwell: Those words, Laura Camien.

[4:29] Laura Camien: Yes.

[4:30] Susan Blackwell: This is one of my favorite assemblages of words that are pearls that are strung into a beautiful necklace.

[4:41] Laura Camien: The function of freedom is to free somebody else.

[4:44] Susan Blackwell: Those words speak to my deepest purpose to free myself and anyone who wants to come along for the ride.

[4:52] Laura Camien: If you've spent any time with me, you know that I love Toni Morrison's words.

[4:58] Susan Blackwell: I love the sentiment behind them.

[5:00] Laura Camien: I love how depending on the human being, how the application can vary, just the dimension of that sentence.

[5:10] Susan Blackwell: But so eloquently stated, so that it means so much to every ear that receives it.

[5:18] Laura Camien: I just, uh, I could eat those words.

[5:22] Susan Blackwell: So good.

[5:24] Laura Camien: So I feel like those words are the subtext of so much of what I have made and written.

[5:37] Susan Blackwell: Things like Die Vampire Die and The Golden Palace.

[5:41] Laura Camien: And there's the subtext for so much of what we do here at The Spark File, giving people the tools and information and support they need to free themselves as creatives so that they can create the things that they want to create in this lifetime.

[5:56] Susan Blackwell: So you know I love Toni Morrison.

[5:59] Laura Camien: Yes.

[5:59] Susan Blackwell: And recently I got really sparked when I saw that there was a documentary up on Netflix called Pieces That I Am and it is all about Toni Morrison.

[5:59] Laura Camien: Pieces that I am, pieces that I am, which is those are some other beautiful words that are pulled from the writing of Toni Morrison.

[6:21] Susan Blackwell: The documentary was directed by Timothy Greenfield Sanders, who in addition to being a documentary filmmaker is also a portrait photographer who primarily works in large format, which made sense because in the interviews with Toni Morrison and I'm pretty sure they also used an interatron which you may have heard me talk about before on this so that she's looking directly at the camera.

[6:50] Laura Camien: Oh, that's powerful.

[6:51] Susan Blackwell: And in these interviews she is shot so beautifully, is she like luminescent.

[6:58] Laura Camien: She is, Laura, she is not to objectify Toni Morrison, but speaking to her radiance and also the work of Timothy Greenfield Sanders and the way that he lights and shoots his subjects.

[7:13] Susan Blackwell: It was so beautiful to me.

[7:14] Laura Camien: Her voice is beautiful.

[7:15] Susan Blackwell: I'll talk more about that.

[7:17] Laura Camien: Her sentiments, the way her brain works in concert with her heart and her mouth and the way she looked.

[7:24] Susan Blackwell: I was just like, I just wanted to eat this movie.

[7:27] Laura Camien: I wanted to eat her words.

[7:29] Susan Blackwell: I wanted to eat this movie.

[7:31] Laura Camien: So this documentary was the gateway drug to my spark today.

[7:35] Susan Blackwell: And that is Toni Morrison.

[7:37] Laura Camien: Toni Morrison.

[7:39] Susan Blackwell: Demon Sparks.

[7:41] Laura Camien: Oh, wow.

[7:42] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[7:42] Laura Camien: For the past weeks, I have been happily reading, eating, breathing, and sleeping Toni Morrison.

[7:51] Susan Blackwell: That's consuming.

[7:52] Laura Camien: Listeners, Laura, have you ever wished you had something good to listen to or something good to binge?

[7:59] Susan Blackwell: And there's no new episodes of your favorite podcast, or there are 1,000 streamers, but nothing is grabbing your interest.

[8:06] Laura Camien: Yes.

[8:06] Susan Blackwell: Next time you have that experience, I want you to remember two words, Toni Morrison.

[8:14] Laura Camien: If you are a reader, read Toni Morrison.

[8:17] Susan Blackwell: If you're a listener, listen.

[8:19] Laura Camien: Oh, listen to one of her audiobooks because she reads her own audiobooks.

[8:26] Susan Blackwell: Oh God, yeah.

[8:27] Laura Camien: And I'm gonna say something on this mic, I'm gonna make a public statement.

[8:31] Susan Blackwell: I said this to Nathan the other day.

[8:33] Laura Camien: Okay.

[8:34] Susan Blackwell: And when I said it, he was like, oh, like he, it's gonna be big, this statement.

[8:38] Laura Camien: Yeah, to my ear.

[8:40] Susan Blackwell: Now you should understand to contextualize this.

[8:44] Laura Camien: I listen to so much content.

[8:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, podcasts, audiobooks.

[8:50] Laura Camien: If I am doing something where I can be listening to something, I am listening to something.

[8:54] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, if I am cleaning, if I am cooking, if I am showering, I have a speaker in the shower so I can listen.

[9:02] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[9:03] Susan Blackwell: I am listening frequently to my ear.

[9:06] Laura Camien: She is the single best audiobook reader I have ever heard.

[9:12] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[9:13] Laura Camien: Her voice is so pleasing, Laura.

[9:17] Susan Blackwell: It is so dynamic.

[9:18] Laura Camien: It is.

[9:19] Susan Blackwell: And when she was in college at Howard University, she did stuff with the acting department with the theater department.

[9:26] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[9:26] Susan Blackwell: And she's good.

[9:28] Laura Camien: She's really, really good at interpreting her own work.

[9:32] Susan Blackwell: And you get to hear the flavor of the subtext that she has infused into the writing and into her voice as she reads that writing.

[9:41] Laura Camien: Yes.

[9:41] Susan Blackwell: And I'm telling you, listening to Toni Morrison read Toni Morrison's writing is one of the great pleasures of life.

[9:48] Laura Camien: Come on.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: The fact that like her voice is as exquisite as it is.

[9:53] Laura Camien: And then the content that she is reading is some of the best writing of our time.

[9:59] Susan Blackwell: It is so good.

[10:00] Laura Camien: So there's this podcaster I love who said, My house is never cleaner than when I'm listening to a good audiobook.

[10:07] Susan Blackwell: Oh, but that's so you.

[10:09] Laura Camien: And that is so me.

[10:11] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god.

[10:12] Laura Camien: It spoke to me.

[10:13] Susan Blackwell: And we have this huge snowstorm.

[10:16] Laura Camien: And I have had to shovel snow for hours.

[10:21] Susan Blackwell: But Laura, believe me when I tell you, I bundled up, I put on my headphones instead of earmuffs, and I happily shoveled for hours because I was in the dark.

[10:33] Laura Camien: Yes.

[10:34] Susan Blackwell: It was snowing on me.

[10:35] Laura Camien: And I was just like listening to Toni Morrison and shoveling.

[10:40] Susan Blackwell: No, Suze, I'm sorry, this is off topic, but a question.

[10:43] Laura Camien: You don't worry, like you've got wolves up there.

[10:46] Susan Blackwell: You've got animals and critters.

[10:48] Laura Camien: You don't worry about it.

[10:49] Susan Blackwell: You're like, you can't hear them.

[10:50] Laura Camien: You've got your headphones on.

[10:52] Susan Blackwell: There was literally, I could hear, even over the sound of Toni Morrison's beautiful voice.

[10:58] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[10:58] Susan Blackwell: I could hear something that was either a wolf or a very large dog howling for hours, howling, howling, howling near the tree line of the forest.

[11:11] Laura Camien: And I was just shoveling and I was like, well, I got this shovel.

[11:14] Susan Blackwell: I can always like bop it.

[11:15] Laura Camien: Wow.

[11:16] Susan Blackwell: Don't mess with me.

[11:17] Laura Camien: I will bop you in the head with a snow shovel.

[11:20] Susan Blackwell: Don't mess with Susie and a shovel.

[11:23] Laura Camien: And then I'll use it to bury your body.

[11:25] Susan Blackwell: Just kidding. Don't use that as evidence in court.

[11:29] Laura Camien: But um in any event, that is all to say.

[11:32] Susan Blackwell: Like, if you want something to lift you up and carry you through your day, whether you're commuting, you're exercising, Toni Morrison, mark my words.

[11:43] Laura Camien: Toni Morrison.

[11:45] Susan Blackwell: What a gift.

[11:46] Laura Camien: So here's more.

[11:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[11:48] Laura Camien: I listened to one of her books, her first book, The Bluest Eye.

[11:51] Susan Blackwell: I finished it, and I immediately, immediately began listening to it again.

[11:58] Laura Camien: I don't remember ever having done this, but I had a suspicion, and my suspicions were confirmed, that things that I didn't fully not only understand, but also I was like, I think there's additional meaning in this, but I can't put my finger on it yet.

[12:15] Susan Blackwell: I didn't fully understand it until the end of the book.

[12:18] Laura Camien: I had a suspicion those things would come into sharper focus on the second listening.

[12:23] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[12:24] Laura Camien: And they totally did.

[12:26] Susan Blackwell: If Toni Morrison wrote mysteries, everything would be a clue.

[12:32] Susan Blackwell: Even things that seemingly mean one thing on the first read, you get that there are deeper layers of significance on subsequent readings.

[12:43] Laura Camien: Yes.

[12:43] Susan Blackwell: And I bet if I listened a third time and a fourth time, that onion would keep just opening up and layers would be peeled.

[12:52] Laura Camien: I bet you're right.

[12:53] Susan Blackwell: It's funny. I don't want to spoil. I almost have to say, I loved having this experience with this book, The Bluest Eye, that I could take it in and be like, I know that there is deep meaning in this, and I'm playing right on the surface with this.

[13:14] Laura Camien: But I'm gonna give it time. I'm just gonna let this open up and unfold, and then to subsequently go back, re-listen, start to have the pieces of the puzzle click into place, and then subsequently to go and start to read some discussions and the kind of interpretation and drilling down that you would experience like in a good literature class.

[13:40] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[13:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[13:41] Susan Blackwell: To then go and dig into that and be like, oh M F G. It is a pleasure.

[13:47] Laura Camien: It is a pleasure.

[13:52] Susan Blackwell: Oh. So I wanted to share just a bit more about my spark, Toni Morrison.

[13:58] Laura Camien: Please.

[13:59] Susan Blackwell: Because there's so much that I did not know that I take additional sparkage from. So you may already know that these are the things at the top of her Wikipedia entry. So here we go. Toni Morrison is an American novelist. She lived from 1931 to 2019. It's just crazy to me that Toni Morrison completely missed the whole pandemic because I think she would have had a lot to say about the pandemic.

[14:29] Laura Camien: But she lived to 2019.

[14:31] Susan Blackwell: Her first novel, The Bluest Eye, which is the one I was just uh listening to and talking about, was published in 1970. The critically acclaimed Song of Solomon, which was published in 1977, brought her national attention and won the National Book Critics Circle Award. In 1988, she won the Pulitzer Prize for Beloved. Yes, which was published in '87. She was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1993. And President Barack Obama presented her with the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2012.

[15:08] Laura Camien: Yeah, baby.

[15:09] Susan Blackwell: So those are the things that you could just read right off the top in Wikipedia. I had this vague understanding, obviously, that Toni Morrison was a legend. But then through the documentary, I started learning some other things about her.

[15:21] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[15:22] Susan Blackwell: Things that sparked me, things that I will carry with me, things that I'm certain that we're gonna be talking about in the Sparks File for years to come. So here's some things that I learned about Toni Morrison that I thought were particularly sparky.

[15:36] Laura Camien: Okay.

[15:37] Susan Blackwell: She was born and raised in Lorraine, Ohio. I had no idea.

[15:42] Laura Camien: Hey, baby.

[15:43] Susan Blackwell: Toni Morrison is a fellow Ohio girl.

[15:47] Laura Camien: Wow.

[15:48] Susan Blackwell: She was born and raised up near Akron. So on the up near the shores of Lake Erie. Uh-huh. Highly mixed culturally and racially, this area where she grew up. She said it truly was a melting pot. They were very poor and they moved a lot because they couldn't afford the $4 in rent. Her mom did cooking and washing. Her dad worked in the steel mills. She described her neighborhood as calm and boring.

[16:17] Laura Camien: Huh.

[16:18] Susan Blackwell: So just wow. Just note that. Just note that. Okay. Okay. Got it. Her work, The Bluest Eye, is set in Lorraine, Ohio. So there's a she writes fiction, uh-huh, but she borrows heavily from, you know, in that I'm sure your ingredients.

[16:38] Laura Camien: Your life experience.

[16:40] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And just is partially like your understanding of the world comes from how you've lived it. And you can change lots of details, obviously. That's where the imagination comes in.

[16:50] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[16:50] Susan Blackwell: That makes sense. Yeah. So her sister taught her to read when she was three years old.

[16:55] Laura Camien: Oh, wow.

[16:56] Susan Blackwell: They would practice writing words and phrases on the sidewalk with a pebble. Like they would write cat. Or they would write, I hat you because they didn't know to put an E on the end. They didn't know how to spell H. And she was describing in the documentary, she describes where they a little further down the sidewalk, they saw a word on the sidewalk and they started copying it and writing it out. And she wrote F. You. And then her mother tore out of the house and yelled at them and demanded that they wash the sidewalk. And her mother never explained why she had gotten so upset. And what about that word that they were writing on the sidewalk? Elicited that response but even not knowing that that's when Toni connected that words and language have real power.

[17:53] Laura Camien: Oh wow that's such a clear lesson and such a clear moment.

[18:00] Susan Blackwell: Yes amazing clear and that clear moment Laura pointed to something else about Toni Morrison. Toni Morrison clearly had this very distinct recollection of childhood and you can hear it in the specificity of the way the children in her writing the way they think the way they feel the way they behave yes she never forgot she never forgot.

[18:28] Laura Camien: They're like full human beings which they are but so many adults write kids as though they're you know one dimensional little cuties.

[18:38] Susan Blackwell: That's it and they're not like fully engaged observing living feeling yeah we're gonna we're gonna revisit that in just a second. So as a kid Toni read all the time and her parents and grandparents were eager that she and her sister kept that reading up right at the beginning of the documentary the very first thing actually she tells the story about her grand how her grandfather was very proud that he had read the Bible cover to cover multiple times which she didn't quite understand as a kid, but as an adult, she came to realize that it was a big deal because her grandfather lived during a time when it was illegal for black people to read in his lifetime.

[19:26] Laura Camien: Oh, that is huge.

[19:28] Susan Blackwell: So it was a subversive, it was a confrontative thing that he had known how to read, number one, but also and read it, read it cover to cover. It was also during his lifetime illegal for white people to teach black people to read.

[19:44] Laura Camien: That's right.

[19:45] Susan Blackwell: So this love of books and reading and the value of it was instilled in her from a young age. And I feel like that love and that value and that power took root in her clearly, and then just like grew like a tree.

[20:04] Laura Camien: My God, yes, to the benefit, you know, with the fruits that we could all eat from.

[20:09] Susan Blackwell: I mean, yeah, how astonishing.

[20:12] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[20:12] Susan Blackwell: And I also just want to sidebar and say it makes me very angry, like when I think about now how how common it is for people to be like, ugh, I don't like to read. I didn't grow up reading. Families don't hand down that appreciation for reading. But when you tell a story about how it was illegal for you to read, uh-huh. This is not something to be taken for granted or or given. And now we're generations from that. And reading and voting.

[20:45] Laura Camien: Reading and voting.

[20:46] Susan Blackwell: People had to fight for the right to do that. Reproductive rights. These things that we have become complacent and we assume that it's just like our our God-given right, our privilege.

[20:58] Laura Camien: Education in general.

[20:59] Susan Blackwell: Education. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I'm inspired by this family that encouraged, you know, the a love of reading, and then wow, Toni's.

[21:09] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:10] Susan Blackwell: It reminded me, it's funny because uh, you know, again, Toni Morrison is not thinking about me in her writing, nor should she be. And at the same time, I felt this, you know, I admire her so much, and I'm drawn to her. And so I also feel this connection to her because I'm like, oh, we have that in common.

[21:35] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[21:36] Susan Blackwell: I don't think that would be that meaningful to her. But one of the things that I so appreciated about her is as I discussed in the spark that I wrote about my mom and how sparkish I find my mom. My mom is one of those people who grew up not having a lot, and books for her, books were for her, and reading were so important because they became a bridge, a portal, kind of a way out.

[22:06] Laura Camien: Yes.

[22:06] Susan Blackwell: And when I hear Toni Morrison talk about the importance of books and reading and the library, yes. I'm like, for a certain kind of person who doesn't have a lot, it can offer you a lot. It's worlds, it's a glimpse into books were interesting to her, and she read everything in the library that reminded me so much of my mom. She was intrigued by language, different ways to say the same things, choices that the authors were making in order to tell me something or make me see something.

[22:46] Laura Camien: That was what was fantastic, Toni says in the documentary.

[22:51] Susan Blackwell: And it makes sense to me that she says that because her use of language in her writing and in her interviews and in her commencement addresses, etc., her use of language is extraordinary. Like it gives me such a visceral feeling the way that she utilizes words.

[23:11] Laura Camien: So it makes sense to me that she had that experience first.

[23:14] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And then she made a career of providing that experience to other people.

[23:21] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:21] Susan Blackwell: So her sister got her a job at the local library as what was called a pusher, which is someone who pushed the cart that you know those special library carts that contain all the books that need to be returned to the shelves.

[23:34] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:35] Susan Blackwell: So Toni said that she was slow at her job because you know, she would go to put a book back and then she would open the book and kept reading.

[23:43] Laura Camien: I mean, just take a look at this book.

[23:44] Susan Blackwell: Exactly. She would read them before putting them back first.

[23:47] Laura Camien: I love it.

[23:48] Susan Blackwell: So she eventually was she was promoted to a job where she was like doing like card catalog work or something like that. So she went on to college, and there's something this is so specific, but it sparked me and delighted me. She said in the documentary. She was loose in college. She was loose and she did not regret it. And I have to say, I loved her for it. It was so sex positive. And it was so I just loved it because they showed all these pictures of her in college. And you know, she's like beautifully put together, beautiful person, beautifully put together, surrounded like by guys from the football team. And I was just like, get it, Toni Morrison, get it.

[24:29] Laura Camien: Wow.

[24:29] Susan Blackwell: She was also known for her cakes, especially her carrot cake. And in school, she would make cakes, and people would buy her cakes for $25 a cake.

[24:42] Laura Camien: What?

[24:43] Susan Blackwell: That's a lot of money in the 50s. $25 per cake. I mean, that's a lot.

[24:50] Laura Camien: Known for her cakes.

[24:51] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So after undergrad at Howard University and graduate school at Cornell, Toni started her career as a teacher back at Howard University.

[25:02] Susan Blackwell: She started teaching.

[25:03] Laura Camien: Oh wow.

[25:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[25:05] Laura Camien: I didn't know that.

[25:06] Susan Blackwell: So even after this whole spark, I'll share all of it. I feel like she led such a rich life and made so much that one could devote their entire life to studying and trying to know Toni Morrison.

[25:23] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[25:24] Susan Blackwell: And there would still be more to learn about Toni Morrison.

[25:27] Laura Camien: More to know and more to learn.

[25:29] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So in the documentary, she talked about something that we have talked about, which is how sometimes the spark or the work comes to you. Just it just comes, you know, like it bubbles up or trickles down. And sometimes you have to seek it out, and then by writing, figure it out.

[25:49] Laura Camien: Yes.

[25:50] Susan Blackwell: Yes. In her words, she said sometimes the writing nudged her, but sometimes it was about searching, sort of, I don't know, but I have to find out. And in the writing, she would explore all the characters' attitudes and so on. She said, I have to know. And the only way I can know and own what I know is to write it and then let you read it so we both know. So that idea makes so much sense to me. And I feel like I have a piece of this too. Writing, I've said this several times, writing helps me to order and understand my world and my experience and to get my arms around it and even know my mind and my feelings about something.

[26:35] Laura Camien: But what is interesting to me is that Toni Morrison is talking about fiction here. She's talking about fiction. You know, for me, I'm talking about how to understand and make sense of my life.

[26:40] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[26:40] Laura Camien: She's talking about fiction, which I thought was fascinating. And it leads me to something that she would tell her students. She said, I don't want you to write anything about your life. I know that you've been taught, right? What you know, but you don't know anything. So I want you to invent. I want you to, she says this in the documentary. I want you to write about a Mexican girl who doesn't speak English, who has a job in Houston as a waitress, a counter girl.

[27:19] Susan Blackwell: Okay, listen, I have to stop you there because I'm fascinated by this departure that it seems like the world has taken in terms of writing and creativity, and there's this message that you can't, that's not your story to tell.

[27:33] Laura Camien: That's right.

[27:34] Susan Blackwell: You can't write that story because you were not a young Mexican girl working as a waitress at a gas station off the beaten path.

[27:45] Laura Camien: No, you can't.

[27:47] Susan Blackwell: And Toni Morrison's thoughts may have evolved since the time that, you know, I feel like Toni Morrison has been so far ahead of most of us in terms of her awareness of what it is to be Black and the Black experience, and is sort of a documenter, not she's not a documentarian, but like a documenter of that and the underpinnings of that. And so her thinking may have changed. If one could have a conversation with Toni Morrison, and students of Toni Morrison may have more information about this. This may have been an exercise she gave to her 18 and 19-year-old freshman writers, right?

[28:30] Laura Camien: That's right.

[28:31] Susan Blackwell: That if she was working with an advanced novel writing cohort, a doctorate students or master's students, she may have said, maybe this isn't your story to tell. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But I think that she was a real advocate, to your point, Laura, of imagination. And it's evidenced in her fiction work.

[28:55] Laura Camien: That's right.

[28:56] Susan Blackwell: I feel like the stories that she tells are her stories to tell, and they are also incredibly nuanced imaginative flights of fiction.

[29:07] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[29:09] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely. I'm not advocating for people writing something that it wouldn't be appropriate for them to write, but I am a huge advocate for imagination.

[29:19] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:19] Susan Blackwell: And that not everything comes from our own life experience.

[29:22] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:23] Susan Blackwell: And I think if you surveyed lots of different writers will say, but all artists and the consumers of that art and that writing, a lot of people would have a lot of varying opinions about whose story is whose to tell.

[29:39] Laura Camien: I know.

[29:40] Susan Blackwell: And I still like should Chekhov not have written The Three Sisters? Like what we're talking about works of art that move people, move their hearts, and move their minds. And if we're just a blanket statement, if you didn't live it, you can't write about it, we are missing a whole lot of incredibly powerful stories that came out of people's imaginations.

[30:08] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[30:08] Susan Blackwell: Well, speaking of imaginations, she said that she would throw out these sort of prompts and ideas that were far distant from anything in those students' lives. And she said those students would take it and they would run with it.

[30:22] Laura Camien: So do without what you will.

[30:25] Susan Blackwell: Amen. Early in her career, Toni got married, had two babies, got divorced, and moved back home to live with her mom in Lorraine, Ohio. And then she's living with her mom in Lorraine, Ohio, and she saw an ad in the back of the New York Review of Books, and it said, I freeze the screen during the documentary and transcribed. A major publisher requires an executive editor, male or female, to assume complete responsibility for all present and proposed literature and English programs at all grade levels from K through high school. What? Originality and imagination are necessary. The position offers an opportunity to influence the literature and English programs presented in elementary and high schools throughout the country between the ages of 35 and 45 with a master's degree in English, some experience in teaching is desirable.

[31:24] Laura Camien: And Toni remembers reading that and saying, that sounds like me.

[31:30] Susan Blackwell: And she applied and got the job as an editor at a publishing house. She relocated to Syracuse and eventually to New York City when that publishing house was later purchased by Random House.

[31:43] Laura Camien: Wow.

[31:44] Susan Blackwell: So Toni got this job as an editor. I find this so rich and interesting because she in this position was influencing the literature that students across the country were taking in. Later as an author, she would be influencing it because her work is taught, you know, was and is taught in schools across the country. And also I think it's very interesting because her books are sometimes banned from being taught in high schools, which I have strong feelings about.

[32:24] Laura Camien: Yes.

[32:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So I just thought that was so interesting that she held that position. And then she continues to rise up like through the ranks as a book editor. And there's this interview with a writer named Paula Giddings, who goes Paula Giddings went on to be, you know, a great writer and educator in her own right. But Paula Giddings had been in the secretarial pool at Random House. And she tells this story about how one day Toni came in and was talking to the women in the secretarial pool at Random House, and Toni asked them to do some typing for her. And in exchange, Toni said that she would make them the best carrot cake they ever had.

[33:06] Laura Camien: The carrot cake.

[33:07] Susan Blackwell: And then she did. She made Paula Giddings the best carrot cake Paula had ever had. And later, Paula Giddings figured out that what she was typing was part of Toni Morrison's first novel, The Bluest Eye.

[33:20] Laura Camien: What?

[33:22] Susan Blackwell: Can you imagine being able to tell that story? That you had been working in the secretarial pool at Random House, and not only had you typed part of Toni Morrison's first novel, The Bluest Eye, you got carrot cake in exchange.

[33:38] Laura Camien: Wow.

[33:38] Susan Blackwell: That is a win-win win-win win-win-win. The infamous carrot cake.

[33:44] Laura Camien: Amazing.

[33:45] Susan Blackwell: To even say, like I had my hands on those words.

[33:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[33:50] Susan Blackwell: It was fun too to I again. I paused the documentary and I read what I believe were those typewritten pages. And then it had the markings, the editing markings of what the language would eventually move towards. So to see that, for instance, on those typed pages anyway, the central character in The Bluest Eye had a different first name. Things like that, where it was just like the way that she played with language and the changes that she had made. I love, you know, I love pulling back the curtain and looking at the creative process. So I was just, I was just like, wow, in heaven with that documentary.

[34:29] Laura Camien: Oh.

[34:30] Susan Blackwell: So that is awesome. Toni was 39 working at Random House as an editor, raising two boys as a single mom. And Random House did not know that Toni was a writer.

[34:43] Laura Camien: And Toni wanted to keep it that way.

[34:45] Susan Blackwell: She intuited that what they wanted was an editor, not a writer. So she didn't tell anyone, and clearly she was sneaking, she was bribing the secretarial pool to type her with those carrot cakes, but she didn't really tell anyone. And they became aware of her as a writer only when she published her first novel.

[35:07] Laura Camien: With someone else.

[35:09] Susan Blackwell: With someone else. But that got the attention of a revered editor at Random House. The Random House Literary Arm was Knopf. And that editor read that first novel, thought it was wonderful. And with the exception of one novel, he went on to edit all of her books subsequently.

[35:32] Laura Camien: Really?

[35:32] Susan Blackwell: Yep. So they brought her in-house basically and was like, hang on. Did she remain an editor while she was writing the other books?

[35:41] Laura Camien: Yes.

[35:41] Susan Blackwell: Wow. Listen to this. Listen to this. And this one goes out to all the people who are working jobs. You might be a parent. You might not be a parent. You might just be figuring out how to pay your rent in New York City where you work or wherever you live. Oh my God. Toni was working downstairs as an editor while also working upstairs as an author, collaborating with a great editor.

[36:12] Laura Camien: Oh wow.

[36:13] Susan Blackwell: And raising two boys as a single mom. And she said she could do both well because she could make the distinction. She could work well as an editor because she had been a teacher for so long, so she could comment on the work without inserting her work or her words or her writing into that other author's work.

[36:37] Laura Camien: Yes.

[36:37] Susan Blackwell: And she made the distinction between those two crafts: the craft of being an editor and the craft of being a writer. And you know what is so fascinating about that in terms of the creative process. We have to know for ourselves when we're doing which thing. Because if we're trying to be in flow, yes, just let the words come. Some of it's gonna be crappy, some of it's gonna be genius, let it rip. And then at a later date, or an hour later, or whenever you switch your hats, yeah. Then editing your own work, looking at it through the lens of, well, this should go here, that should go there, this needs to be cut entirely. That's a different part of your brain. It's a different hat. And if you let that brain in while you're trying to be in flow, guess what happens? No work gets written.

[37:31] Laura Camien: Yeah, nothing happens.

[37:34] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that's a real skill. That's that's incredible that she had mastered that. That she could do that. I have some thoughts about how she might have pulled that off, but we'll get to that in a second. So *The Bluest Eye*, this is her first novel, and what a way to kick off your career as a published author. She did something in that book that I thought was extraordinary. In the documentary, she says, "I started my career with *The Bluest Eye*, putting the entire plot on the first page." So the reader reads the first page, he knows exactly what happened. And if he turns the page, it's because he wants either to find out how it happened, or he loves the language. And it's really cool. The other thing that's fun about Toni Morrison is she'll pull back the curtain and she'll say, "I had an idea," or a spark came to me, my language, not hers, but I had an idea of something I wanted to explore, or the spark of this image came to me.

And then you realize that that spark became a foundational image in *Beloved*, or that central idea became the central idea explored in *The Bluest Eye*. And it is oh, I have chills just talking about it. Like it is so I don't know. I just think it's so exciting. Skill. That's seriously skilled.

[38:58] Laura Camien: So in *The Bluest Eye*, which I cannot wait for you to read it, so we can have a two-person book club. Or readers, if you all want to read it, we can have a Sparkfile community book club. The first thing in the book, the very first words that we hear, she introduces us to this framing device that she keeps calling back to throughout the whole book. The very first thing we hear is remember the Dick and Jane books, see Dick run, see Jane play, play Jane play. Throughout *The Bluest Eye*, Toni repeats and distorts the "see Dick run, see Jane play." She repeats it and she distorts it. And you see how something as familiar to us as a Dick and Jane story, you see some of us. I'm talking about myself here. You see really clearly for the first time how the Dick and Jane story centers and privileges whiteness, uh-huh, and how potentially damaging that would be to a black child whose identity is still forming.

[40:03] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And what I didn't realize, and this is a light, it's the lightest spoiler, but my hope is that it will be delicious for you, Laura, or you listeners as you take in *The Bluest Eye*. What I didn't realize until my second listen to the book is that framing device of the Dick and Jane story also serves as the lightest synopsis of the story that is to follow. In the first pages of *The Bluest Eye*, she tells you everything that's gonna happen. And then just like she said, she spends the rest of the book telling you how it happened. Wow. In the most exquisite prose. So I don't want to say too much more about that, but by the end of the book, I was like, wait a second. Did she? And I like counted it off. I was like, see Jane play, play Jane play. I went back through it and I was like, oh, MG. She basically gave you like the high-level bullets of the major action points in the story. Wow. Oh, I can't wait. Oh, it's so good.

[41:10] Laura Camien: So, how did Toni do the things she did and produce all that exquisite writing? I think it's important to understand that while Toni Morrison clearly possessed gifts, she also consistently did the work. It is laid out in this documentary that Toni Morrison was meticulous in her forethought regarding character and location, down to the layout of an apartment or like a hairstyle that she describes in the writing. Toni talks about her writing practice, and she says that she would get up before the sun rose. She got up early, consistently before the sun came up. She was this I loved and I identified with deeply. It was another point of identification and connection that I felt with her. She said that she was very smart early in the day, but later, not so much.

But early in the day, she was very good, very sensitive. And she would work about three or four hours every morning. And one of the main reasons she did that was because she was a single mom raising two small kids. And if she got up at 5 a.m. before they did, yeah, she could get some writing done.

[42:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. She went on to say she was unable, unwilling, and unenthusiastic about writing after lunch or writing at night. And the only time she wanted to do it or was good at it was very early in the day. So I'm gonna say it one more time to recap, Toni Morrison was a single mother of two boys working a very high-powered full-time job at a huge Park Avenue publishing house. And she found time to write some of the greatest books of our time. And the way that she did it was to identify precisely what time of day worked for her busy schedule and for her metabolism as a writer. And then she showed up and she put in the work. She did. And it's just good to remember like it wasn't like she was free of all the other bullshit that everyone has. She found ways to work in spite of it.

[43:23] Laura Camien: Yeah. She still got the work done. I mean, she I'm gonna misquote this, but I know she has another popular quote about like if you want to fly, you have to rid yourself of the shit that weighs you down. Yeah. And that tells me she had shit that weighed her down too. She says in an interview, Laura, first of all, I love that quote. And I actually grabbed that what I was doing research for this because it reminded me so much of our beloved Tammy Evans. Oh gosh. It reminded me of Tammy Evans and the work that she is doing. And I just love that. I love that quote. So thank you for bringing that up.

[43:57] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. But also, she says in an interview, she's like, it was, she talks about how hard it was. She pulls no punches. She's like, "Yeah, it sounds like it was really hard." Yeah. It isn't just like, oh, well, I guess if you're Toni Morrison, this genius just flows out of you and it gets published, and there you go. Yeah. She was every day making the choice. This is important to me to tell these stories. And similar to your like the quote about the meaning of freedom is to free someone else. She has another thing that she said, which is like if you have any power, it is your job to empower someone else. And in addition to everything that she did, she shared with all of us this belief system that you have got to reach over to the next person and help them along. You've got to reach down and help lift someone else up. She did that as an editor. She brought on authors and championed authors.

[44:59] Laura Camien: Yes. She had some power and empowered others. Oh my God. Yes. Another thing that I find incredibly sparkish is this. Toni said, "I didn't want to speak for black people. I wanted to speak to and be among us," meaning black people. So the first thing I had to do was to eliminate the white gaze. James Baldwin used to talk about that. The little white man that sits on your shoulder and checks out everything you do and say, sort of knock him off. And you know, you're free. Now I won the world. I mean, I can write about anything to anyone for anyone. I don't have to have this white judgmental eye checking me, editing me, approving of me. This is key, I think, to Toni Morrison and to her life's work.

Hinton Owls, who the New Yorker critic said she was doing something that a lot of black writers who had come up in the 70s weren't doing. And she didn't do it in a way that was about saying that the white world was wrong. The white world was just peripheral, if it existed at all.

[46:11] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Center her world, not this white world. That's yes, yes to that. I feel like Toni Morrison, though I was never a student in her classroom, I have been a student of her teaching, and I've learned a lot from her about this very thing. Yeah. There was a long time when I would hear that, the male gaze or the white gaze, and I honestly I didn't know what it meant. And now I know what it means. And I learned from her this very concept of not writing as if some white man is your primary reader, listener. Watching over you and every word you write. Yeah. If you want to read it, these are my words, not Toni Morrison's, but essentially, I feel like you know, Toni Morrison could be saying to me, if you want to read it, enjoy. But you are not my primary audience. I'm not thinking about you, Susan. And I respect it deeply.

[47:11] Laura Camien: Yes. So Toni said, "I have had reviews in the past that have accused me of not writing about white people. I remember a reviewer said one day she will have to face up to the real responsibilities and get mature and write about the real confrontation for black people, which is white people." As though our lives have no meaning and no depth without the white gaze. And I've spent my entire writing life trying to make sure that the white gaze was not the dominant one in any of my books. Wow. In this country, many books, particularly in the 40s, 50s, you could feel the address of the narrator talking to somebody white. I could tell because they were explaining things that they didn't have to explain if they were talking to me. The assumption is that the reader is a white person, and that troubled me. She said, "I wanted to read a book that had no codes, no little notes explaining things to white people." I love this.

[48:17] Susan Blackwell: Something that you said earlier, Laura, about children, the way children are depicted in writing was also very sparkish to me. Toni Morrison talked about how stories that featured young black girls, that they were props, they were jokes. She wanted to write a book that she wanted to read. She hadn't seen a book in which black girls were center stage. And she said, "I had a major question in my mind at the time, which was how does a child learn self-loathing? Where does it come from? Who enables it? How is it infectious? And then what might be the consequences?" And when you read *The Bluest Eye*, you will see all of that unpacked and explored in such depth and the way that it is passed down historically, the way so many things are just passed down, trauma, myths about beauty and what is the ideal beauty, et cetera.

[49:25] Laura Camien: Yeah. And how those things can be so damaging. It's amazing to me that not only she's a great example of somebody who can take a concept or an image that sparks her. I'm repeating myself, but I'm just blown away by taking a concept or image that sparks her. And then she has the skill to bring it to life in storytelling in a way that is so alive and engaging and deep and nuanced and specific. And I just marvel at it. I just absolutely marvel at it. We all have so much to learn from Toni Morrison.

[50:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. A about the skill and the talent of writing for emotional impact, but also about the creative process, about also about how to live our lives and how to give back to other people, how to be a human being.

[50:24] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[50:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I could go on and on. I have barely scratched the surface here. But her life, her work, her collaborations, her friendships, clearly I'm mildly obsessed. But with good reason, with good reason. I mostly want to let you know or to remind you that Toni Morrison existed. She left behind some of the greatest writing of our generation. And in order so we're not here for an entire graduate level survey on Toni Morrison, I'll jump to what do we make of it.

[50:59] Laura Camien: Oh.

[51:00] Susan Blackwell: So this is a friendly reminder. Toni Morrison grew up natural growth. She was a natural growth kid in Ohio in a boring neighborhood, modest means. She did not come from or live in the Golden Palace. And she went on to become one of the greatest writers of our lifetime. I just want to remind you the Golden Palace is anywhere you make it, friends. It is anywhere you make it, and you can make anything you want to make. And Toni Morrison is one of the greatest pieces of evidence to support that. Just knowing I know Lorraine, Ohio, like I know Dayton, Ohio.

[51:41] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[51:41] Susan Blackwell: And I know, I just know in my bones that she is evidence that there's a great, there's a great quote in the documentary where somebody, there's another great poet from that area, Rita Dove, and somebody goes, What was in the water in Lorraine, Ohio?

[52:00] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[52:01] Susan Blackwell: The Golden Palace is anywhere we make it, friends. That's right. And I still think like goes back to that tree that you described there that is her imagination, that it was allowed to through reading and books, it and her parents like allowing it to flourish and grow, and we all are reaping the benefits.

[52:25] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[52:25] Susan Blackwell: Here's another what do we make of it? No matter what kind of work you make, consider this question, who are you making this work for? Who are you painting for? Who are you writing for? See if you can identify it. If there is a gaze inherent in your work, see if you can identify it. And then you get to make a conscious decision about who you want to be creating for. And maybe it's yourself.

[52:52] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[52:54] Susan Blackwell: Maybe you're making the work that you want to consume.

[52:57] Laura Camien: Absolutely. Because when you say gaze, yes, white gaze, male gaze, it could be your parents' gaze.

[53:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that's right. I love what you said that Toni Morrison said, which was like if there's an explanation in there, like that's how you know that it's that you're just speaking to the gaze.

[53:15] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[53:16] Susan Blackwell: Because the people who this was meant for don't need that explanation. Now there is a distinction in there. When you're telling a story, you need to always think of it again, it's like a string of pearls. And you need to make sure that you include the necessary information in the order that allows the listener or the reader to step into the story. But that's different than decoding things for people.

[53:42] Laura Camien: That's right.

[53:43] Susan Blackwell: Providing an explanation for something that people they just know. If they're your people, if they're the people who you are writing this for, they just they know that. And you need to tell them.

[53:51] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[53:53] Susan Blackwell: When we talk about freedom, when Toni Morrison talks about the function of freedom is to free somebody else. One way of stepping towards your freedom is to identify if there is implicit gaze in your work, and then making a conscious decision about whether you want that to be in place or not in your work. Free yourself from it. Free yourself.

[54:15] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[54:18] Susan Blackwell: Here's another what do we make of it? A carrot cake. I could not find the recipe for Toni Morrison's famous carrot cake. Who do you think it could be? What's the secret?

[54:27] Laura Camien: Well, listen, first of all, if anyone has Toni Morrison's carrot cake recipe, please come forward. Here's a fun fact I didn't know. Fran Liebowitz was a really, really close friend of Toni Morrison's for decades.

[54:39] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[54:40] Laura Camien: I don't know that Fran Liebowitz is a great baker, but if you have access, Fran Liebowitz, to that recipe card, we would happily we would love to take a peek. While I couldn't find the recipe for Toni's carrot cake, she did drop this hint. She said, no one puts in enough carrots. So maybe find a good carrot cake recipe and then double the amount of carrots. And as you make it, I just I offer you this, take it or leave it. As you make that carrot cake, listen to the audiobook of any of her novels, and then enjoy a big slice of that carrot cake. And while you're doing it, while that fork is cutting through that cream cheese frosting and that carrot cake, just send up some gratitude to Toni Morrison.

[55:25] Laura Camien: Toni Morrison. You know, we have a client who we adore. Hi, Katherine.

[55:31] Susan Blackwell: Catherine Gwynn! Extraordinaire.

[55:34] Laura Camien: Yes, and she talked to us about this belief that um, and and historically, you know, women would be known for a dish that they created or a cake, etc. And at all family functions and community functions, it was their everyone's looking forward just to the signature rice crispy treats. Yeah, and that thing for so many people was and could be a legacy. That recipe for a lot of women, yes, for many, many years, was their legacy. And I just love knowing that Toni Morrison, in addition to all of her incredible work that we know of, she also left another legacy in her carrot cake.

[56:20] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I want that carrot cake.

[56:22] Laura Camien: I want that.

[56:23] Susan Blackwell: I want it. I'm my mouth is watering. I'm so like, I want it. This isn't my spark, but another potential what do we make of it. And I meant to communicate this. Maybe I'm doing it now through this podcast. Another one of our wonderful clients, Hannah Marie Marcus, makes olfactory.

[56:40] Laura Camien: How would you describe it?

[56:41] Susan Blackwell: She does almost like olfactory studies.

[56:43] Laura Camien: Yes.

[56:44] Susan Blackwell: So makes fragrances that are sparked by and inspired by it could be a piece of writing, it could be something in literature. And there is a description in The Bluest Eye where a new person comes into the children's lives. Uh-huh. And they remark on how wonderful this person smells. And then they start talking through the notes of what this person smells like. Oh, Hannah Marie could totally create that.

[57:15] Laura Camien: I think the troublesome thing, they it sounds like they smell wonderful, but the troublesome thing is they are a troublesome character.

[57:23] Susan Blackwell: So it is not without strings attached. Trying to cover up the stench of their dark soul, Susan.

[57:35] Laura Camien: That's exactly right, Laura Camien. And you don't know the half of it. No spoilers. Um, my hope with all of this, this entire spark, is that it will inspire you, listener, to go read or reread or listen or revisit some Toni Morrison because the storytelling and the language and the composition of her work is so rich. And you will learn things about life and language and love and race and racism that no kidding, you may not have known otherwise.

[58:09] Susan Blackwell: Wow. I again I say, I feel like I have learned I believe it so much from Toni Morrison because of her storytelling. I have was able to take in concepts that I could not completely wrap my mind around before. So get your Toni Morrison on. I'm watching this documentary and I'm reading, I'm starting with her first book and I'm reading. This is my plan. And if you want to get on this book club, here's another what do we make of it. I think it would be really fun to go chronologically in the order that they were written and take in those books.

[58:47] Laura Camien: Let's do it.

[58:48] Susan Blackwell: Let's do it. They're so good, Laura. I don't ever want to hear any of us saying I'm bored, there's nothing to listen to. There's nothing to read. Because I'm telling you, if you haven't cracked into or haven't lately cracked into the works of Toni Morrison, you're in for a treat. There's a treasure trove that awaits you. I'm so excited. And if you can get past the vampires telling you you couldn't possibly be a writer because Toni Morrison's work exists in the world, and move through that and move on to being inspired to tell the stories that you want to tell, to consistently put in the time to hone your craft. If I could leave you with that spark.

[59:30] Laura Camien: Absolutely.

[59:31] Susan Blackwell: Then my work is done here. And Toni Morrison would be right there saying, You in fact, doesn't she say, like if there is a book that you want to read that has not been written yet, right? You're the person to write it.

[59:46] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[59:47] Susan Blackwell: You're the person to write it. You're the person to write it.

[59:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[59:50] Susan Blackwell: What a gift. Susie Blackwell, this spark is a gift. Toni Morrison is a gift to us all.

[59:58] Laura Camien: She is.

[59:59] Susan Blackwell: And that writing and the way she lived, and there's so much more. I have barely scratched the surface. Other things that she has made and written. Crack into a commencement address. She will not disappoint. She's so good.

[1:00:14] Laura Camien: She's so good.

[1:00:15] Susan Blackwell: Wow. But that's my spark, and I'm sticking to it.

[1:00:18] Laura Camien: Oh, Suze, thank you.

[1:00:21] Susan Blackwell: The carrot cake of Toni Morrison. I mean, I think that should be the official title of the Sparks.

[1:00:26] Laura Camien: All right, we're hearing it.

[1:00:30] Susan Blackwell: And nutritious.

[1:00:32] Laura Camien: And nutritious, because it's got double the carrots.

[1:00:34] Susan Blackwell: It's got double the carrots. Friends, that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape people. And as always, we hope that this put another bunch of sparks in your file. If there is a spark that you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to bring your creative ideas to life, email us at thesparkfile@gmail.com or submit through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback. But you know, there is a price of admission. First, you got to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[1:01:09] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at The Sparkfile and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five star review. This podcast, these are not idle words. It actually helps other listeners to find us.

[1:01:19] Susan Blackwell: It really does. Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, that's probably a strong indication that it was not meant for you to begin with.

[1:01:30] Laura Camien: Oh, nice, Suze.

[1:01:33] Susan Blackwell: That was a good one. If something lights you up, come on. How could Toni Morrison not light you up? Something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying. We are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame. You know you gotta take it and make it.

[1:01:59] Laura Camien: Thank you, Toni Morrison.

[1:02:01] Susan Blackwell: Thank you, Toni Morrison. The greatest of all time. When I bope into something that inspires me, I dump it in the sparkfile. Spark could be something that I wanna pick or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the sparkfest. I jump into my sparkfest. Let's open up the sparkfall.