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[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Sparks File, your one stop picnic basket for creative inspiration.

[0:42] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:43] Laura Camien: And I'm Laura Camien.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: If you're an OG listener, welcome back, Sparkler. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome to you.

[0:49] Laura Camien: You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it? These are such good questions, and we do have answers.

[0:56] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations. Here's the deal. We are makers and we are making all kinds of things. If you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, or you want to be making stuff all the time, you know that the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:14] Laura Camien: So we're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast or a daytime disco that rocks your socks off.

[1:34] Susan Blackwell: I'm optimistic about the spark. Or a way to creatively resolve the unresolved.

[1:39] Laura Camien: Ooh. Ooh. Interesting.

[1:41] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks. And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too. If you're not careful, you might just get through your creative to-do list. So without further ado, let's open up the spark file.

[1:58] Laura Camien: Cameo.

[1:59] Susan Blackwell: Blackwell. This is my favorite day of all the days. This is the day we ship.

[2:07] Laura Camien: I am looking forward to whatever it is you're about to.

[2:10] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm excited. I got a little ditty today that is like maybe a mini spark, like a bite-sized morsel.

[2:16] Laura Camien: Oh, well, that's good because I've got a full-bodied gonna take some time to whatever I get spark.

[2:22] Susan Blackwell: Oh, this is gonna work out. Maybe a wonderful compliment.

[2:25] Laura Camien: Well, we're about to find out. Are you gonna go fierce?

[2:28] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I'll go fierce. I welcome it. And this little spark I came across, it is small but mighty. It kind of packed a lot of emotional punch for me. So I thought it might be a little, but it's a lot.

[2:44] Laura Camien: She's a lot. Make sense of that.

[2:47] Susan Blackwell: So here's a little teaser that drew me in. When the music comes on, my body is immersed in it, and all my pain disappears.

[2:57] Laura Camien: Oh you know what that reminds me of, like right off the jump.

[3:01] Susan Blackwell: What?

[3:01] Laura Camien: We did that spark about the art of dying well, and there was a gentleman who was laying in hospice. The threshold singers came to visit. And when they sang to him, he said it relieved his pain.

[3:17] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it reminds me of that. I like this. I like it already. I just want to make sure everybody knows before we really launch that my dog Kitty Bunny is in my sweatshirt as we record this.

[3:30] Laura Camien: It's the best. And I just want to everyone jealous. I wanted to have said it because if she decides to liberate at some point.

[3:38] Susan Blackwell: Oh, oh we'll know. It's gonna be a thing.

[3:41] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah. But that's fair warning. There's peace in the kingdom right now, but we'll see. Listeners, I hope you're listening to this with a sweet little pup up your sweatshirt.

[3:53] Susan Blackwell: Okay. I stumbled. That's my wish for you all. Also, if anybody has just another, this is a side side, side, side, side spark. If anybody ever needs to get me a gift, make sure if it's clothing that you can fit two dogs inside of it.

[4:09] Laura Camien: Two small dogs.

[4:09] Susan Blackwell: Two small dogs. That's what I'm going for now. I've let go of fashion aspirations, and it's just about can it fit two small dogs gotta be washable too? Because when you fit two small dogs in your clothes, guess what you wash.

[4:23] Laura Camien: Yes.

[4:23] Susan Blackwell: Sorry to interrupt you.

[4:24] Laura Camien: You're gonna be able to do that.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: No, but I'm so glad I was where I was thinking. Now, what gifts do I need to do? My birthday's coming up.

[4:30] Laura Camien: That's right. That's right.

[4:31] Susan Blackwell: So this is good information for all.

[4:33] Laura Camien: There you go. Great. We got the important stuff out of the way. Let's get to some sparks.

[4:38] Susan Blackwell: Sounds good. So I stumbled upon this article in Vice this week, and it has brought me so much joy just thinking about it.

[4:45] Laura Camien: What was that Mary Oliver quote you said?

[4:48] Susan Blackwell: Um, it's hold the line. It's hold the line. I'm gonna get it for you. I need it in my life. Like I need to reference it. Killed me with delight.

[4:55] Laura Camien: It killed me with delight. Every day I see or hear something that more or less kills me with delight.

[5:00] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yes, this killed you with delight. Killed me with delight.

[5:04] Laura Camien: So here it is. Picture a rave club. It's dark, it's hot. Picture hair dyed, all kinds of colors, costume jewelry, capes and hats, full on, like artistic makeup that makes a statement.

[5:24] Susan Blackwell: Music so loud you can barely think.

[5:33] Laura Camien: Bodies moving to the beat, laughter and joy and ecstasy on the dance floor.

[5:33] Susan Blackwell: You said bodies moving to the beat for a second. I thought you said potties moving to the beat, which gave me this image of lots of dancing toilets.

[5:39] Laura Camien: That's not what you meant. You mean human bodies swaying and sweating and that is correct.

[5:45] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Slow motion raving out. To see on the dance floor.

[5:48] Laura Camien: Yes. Do you have a clear picture of it?

[5:51] Susan Blackwell: I'm with you.

[5:52] Laura Camien: Okay. Now imagine it's 2 p.m. on a weekday. Welcome to the Posh Club.

[6:03] Susan Blackwell: According to Vice, it's an outrageous weekly cabaret style party for people who, like the china, the afternoon tea is served on, are all of a certain vintage.

[6:18] Laura Camien: Every person in this room is 60 or older. Mostly much, much older.

[6:26] Susan Blackwell: Amazing, right? I thought I knew where you were headed. I thought we were headed into daybreakers.

[6:32] Laura Camien: No.

[6:33] Susan Blackwell: Like morning dance parties. This is you are taking me into territory I have never been in before.

[6:40] Laura Camien: I'm so excited about this. I can't even say. I am not even a dance club person, but I do know the joy of allowing yourself, allowing your body the freedom to move and express joy, however, the music moves you.

[7:00] Susan Blackwell: In there was a certain routine and things that she hadn't done in so long. Like the idea of doing them would bring on a lot of anxiety, you know. So when I read about the play, going to a rave.

[7:12] Laura Camien: Sure.

[7:10] Susan Blackwell: Going to a rave. But also, my mom used to talk at length. I mean, my mom was ill for a long time. So she had a lot of recollections of her body as a healthy, really healthy body.

[7:24] Laura Camien: Sure.

[7:25] Susan Blackwell: And she would often say to us as if she needed to remind herself as much as us, like, you know, when I was younger, I was like lithe and free, and I climbed trees and I danced and I ran.

[7:38] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[7:39] Susan Blackwell: And it was important to reconnect with that part of herself. So that's what I started to think about in terms of this. And when I read about the Posh Club, like I wish that there had been something like this for my mom to enjoy. I don't know if this exactly would be it, but let's find out.

[7:57] Laura Camien: Yeah, but just something for her to get out there and move and connect with people.

[8:02] Susan Blackwell: So, according to this Vice article, this event is so East London. There's a host like dressed in a bow tie, shirt and hot pants, flapper girl groups for entertainment, and Elvis impersonator.

[8:17] Laura Camien: In fact, that Elvis impersonator named Conrad Hamilton said, when I first started performing here, I thought, huh, retired people, relaxed gig, no problem. I could not have been more wrong.

[8:33] Susan Blackwell: It is the only place I've ever had underwear thrown at me.

[8:37] Laura Camien: There's a pause of recollection.

[8:39] Susan Blackwell: They were big granny panties, he said. I got such a kick out of that. Because of course, like when you hit a certain age, I think you can have more of a sense of humor. Like, there's just a freedom of like not having any more shits to give.

[8:55] Laura Camien: Like, you just don't. Just fuck it. You know what I mean? You can drop the pretenses, and everyone has been through some tough shit. Everyone's been through health issues. There's no denying that they're all experiencing the aging process. And there's no time or space left for pretense, you know?

[9:15] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So fuck it. Throw your granny panties. So there's a few reasons why this event is getting the attention that it is. First of all, it's completely legit. It's produced by one of London's premier party producers, Ducky. They've been promoting in London's top venues for over 20 years. It isn't a disco ball, like in the dining room of a nursing home. This is like the real deal, fully produced, legit club scene event.

[9:45] Laura Camien: Wow.

[9:46] Susan Blackwell: So the whole thing came about because two of the founders of Ducky, Simon Cassen and his sister Annie Bowden, dreamt it up as a way to help their mom. Their mom moved at age 80 to a new location, and she was really very lonely.

[10:01] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[10:02] Susan Blackwell: So they first pulled together a vintage tea party in her living room, like a small group of friends, all in their 80s or 90s, and they played 1940s records on an old phonograph while they ate sandwiches and scones and sang along.

[10:16] Laura Camien: That event was such a hit.

[10:18] Susan Blackwell: I'd be down with that. I'm like, I'm so good at that little event was such a hit that Simon and Annie went a step bigger. They booked the local church hall. They sent invites far and wide across the town. They asked friends of theirs, so much younger friends, to be like the wait staff. They got a few more records, they brought in a few performer pals to entertain, and it was just a smashing success.

[10:47] Laura Camien: And that is how the Posh Club was born.

[10:50] Susan Blackwell: Wow. So one of the producers of the event said, it's probably the most rewarding thing I've ever been involved with. What we're doing is really an anti-loneliness campaign presented as a club event. A lot of our guests maybe don't get out as much as they once did, don't see friends as often. Well, this provides a unique way to do both while also being part of something that's vibrant and exciting.

[11:16] Laura Camien: Just because you reach a certain age doesn't mean you don't want to have fun anymore. I think society has a habit of forgetting that. And a lot of what we as younger people do enjoy ourselves, these guys, they've not only seen it and done it all, they invented most of it.

[11:32] Susan Blackwell: Amazing. So that perspective is so crucial. Like just a reminder like whenever you think for a minute that our generation or the next generation is inventing everything. That's not really the case. But I just really loved how he described it as an anti-loneliness campaign. I love that more than I can say.

[11:53] Laura Camien: It's beyond. It got me thinking about so many things like your spark about forming a group of people like when we're younger that will stick together through the years, like a regular get together. And I thought about the times that I felt lonely when I was writing and I formed various writing groups or hosted writing dates with various configurations, which really is just an excuse to like be with people that I like.

[12:17] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[12:17] Laura Camien: All doing something that we enjoy doing. And that's really all it takes to take the lonelies away. And so that's all a social club is really an anti-loneliness club.

[12:28] Susan Blackwell: Now, the Posh Club has been running in various cities as much as possible, but they want to expand. And they've gotten just a ton of demand. Everyone wants to know why can't we have that in our city? They've gotten grants to subsidize the events, which is great, but they're limited on how far that funding will go.

[12:45] Laura Camien: But they estimate that more than 10,000 partygoers have been served by 200 volunteers across this little set of clubs that they've done each year.

[12:55] Susan Blackwell: It's that's a lot of people who've been positively affected.

[12:59] Laura Camien: A lot.

[12:59] Susan Blackwell: And it's volunteer. Like I think I'm just a registry.

[13:03] Laura Camien: Volunteers.

[13:04] Susan Blackwell: Yes. So producer Dickie Eaton says, we'd like to open more. We get people coming here from other cities while visiting friends or relatives. And they always say, Why can't we have something like this where we live? So that's an ambition. But we need it to be quality, have the right atmosphere and be done with love. Because if it doesn't have those things, it's not the Posh Club.

[13:26] Laura Camien: Yes.

[13:27] Susan Blackwell: And that stuck with me too. I love this. This is so done with love. Like they're so clear on like what are the elements that are important to us that it's quality, that it feels legit.

[13:40] Laura Camien: Yeah, that it has the right atmosphere, not a cheapy little half-assed, like we're just gathering people to make a buck.

[13:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. But true care and it has to be done with love.

[13:52] Laura Camien: Oh, this is so good. It makes me so happy.

[13:54] Susan Blackwell: I'm certain that that love can be felt, you know, at the event, that the event producers really care and want to make sure that the guests have a great time.

[14:03] Laura Camien: Like it's meaningful to them. So they do it with a lot of love and a bit of fun. Dickie Eaton also said, "We're probably the only club event in the world where someone was rushed to a hospital because they'd forgotten to take their drugs."

[14:18] Susan Blackwell: Oh, Dickie.

[14:19] Laura Camien: Oh, Dickie. Um, so yeah, they it seems like they have a sense of humor about it. It's just a good, good time. One of the attendees who's 74 years old said, "My mom was still dancing until she was 91. I want to beat that. Come back in 17 years, and I hope I'll still be here." It's all about staying glamorous.

[14:43] Susan Blackwell: It really is that thing about like staying engaged with your mind, a little bit of movement, a bit of so meaningful social engagement.

[14:52] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh. This is the antidote to I have this picture in my mind of a potential way of being for an older person that is like very solitary, like a lot of prior chapters of life have sort of concluded and shut down. And like a lot of time alone at home, a lot of time just like the TV keeping you company.

[15:16] Susan Blackwell: And as an introvert, I have to keep an eye on this. Like I have to keep an eye on this. And this, and I've never been like a big dance club person.

[15:23] Laura Camien: Right.

[15:27] Susan Blackwell: But this sounds I've so I have so many questions, but I don't want to jump your spar.

[15:32] Laura Camien: Well, I think like it interests me too because like I didn't love dance clubs as a young person. So it's hard to imagine like, will this be the answer for me when I'm 80? But even looking at the pictures, there's so much in it, like the self-expression, um getting out your fancy clothes again. Um, yeah, doing your hair, even if it's in a if it's in a vintage style or a new style or a punk rock style or whatever, like they're just giving themselves so much freedom.

[16:00] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it's just all about having fun. I love it. I just love it. Like just let loose. Do you talk about like what kind of music do they play?

[16:10] Laura Camien: I don't, I don't uh I don't know. I mean, in the in some of the events, they talked about playing music that these people would have listened to when they were younger.

[16:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[16:20] Laura Camien: Um, like the Elvis impersonator, you know what I mean?

[16:23] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yes.

[16:24] Laura Camien: But the people who are entertaining them are young people. So I think they've even had, you know, like ladies in pasties. I think they've had uh flapper girls, I think they've had all kinds of like Burlesque kind of things, burlesque things, yeah that anyone of uh any adult could go to.

[16:44] Susan Blackwell: So why not them?

[16:45] Laura Camien: Yeah, yes. God, this is a good thing. Not like they haven't seen it all. I feel like by the time I age up into the posh club, I feel like there's gonna be a lot of Duranda Ran being played.

[16:54] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[16:56] Laura Camien: Uh yeah, wham.

[16:57] Susan Blackwell: A lot of perhaps some wham.

[17:00] Laura Camien: Maybe some spandau ballet. We'll see. We'll get we'll see when we get there. I think there's gonna be some good stuff though.

[17:06] Susan Blackwell: This is so interesting. And so I started to poke around a little bit to see if anyone else is doing this sort of thing, you know, and I found a couple of interesting things to note. In South Korea, they are kind of um, they have these government funded, they call them daytime disco clubs, and they're being supported specifically in order to combat senior loneliness, isolation, and dementia.

[17:34] Laura Camien: Amazing.

[17:35] Susan Blackwell: So thank you, South Korea. Like, I love a government who will see like, hey, it's um worthwhile to put an investment in this. Um, according to an article in the Good News Network, South Korea currently has the fastest aging population of any developed nation in the world.

[17:54] Laura Camien: So they're getting a jump on it.

[17:56] Susan Blackwell: One South Korean gentleman told the BBC, "I have a bad back and legs, but when the music comes on, my body is immersed in it and my pain disappears. I'm full of energy for two or three days after this."

[18:10] Laura Camien: Yes, right? This is what I'm talking about.

[18:11] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[18:14] Laura Camien: I honestly, I just gotta say, it really does impress me when people in a country agree that our elderly have value and we should be continuing to tend to their needs, not just hit an age and then we're done with you.

[18:32] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[18:33] Laura Camien: Um, so I also read about a senior senior prom in Long Beach, California. Um, and this was fun. They had like a 16-piece orchestra and swing dancing lessons, like to take you all the way back.

[18:47] Susan Blackwell: But it seemed like a one-time deal.

[18:49] Laura Camien: It was just like a one-time event that someone did. So I just think there's a lot of potential here. There are so many sparks in this. There's a grocery store chain in the UK that put in what they called, quote, talking tables for conversations between strangers to happen.

[19:07] Susan Blackwell: Ooh.

[19:08] Laura Camien: Interesting, right? So you might go there and sit down and see if anyone joins you to have a conversation because you are, you know, and again, because grocery store is somewhere that presumably everyone needs to go at one time or another. Um, but if you're feeling lonely and you want to talk to someone about anything, sit there.

[19:25] Susan Blackwell: Um, but they also would bring in like local charities and volunteers uh for people to talk to anyone who comes over to sit down you know that is looking for some human connection this would be a good job for me to volunteer in this way so good I've often thought like that might be a good piece of volunteering for me even to go to like a nursing home or something like that and just like let people talk and and bring their stories up to be so good at that.

[19:25] Laura Camien: I know he's he's not like certified but to take POTUS my dog with me so he could just sit in people's labs I feel like it would be such a oh but I don't I don't know he's also he's not well trained and he would lick people's faces and they might not like that.

[20:07] Susan Blackwell: Yeah I don't know I'm sure there's rules about that sort of thing but I do know POTUS is a comfort to me that's for sure when he snuggles a cup of like there is nothing like it.

[20:17] Laura Camien: Yeah no offense to you kitty shoved in my sweatshirt right is awesome as well kitty's acting as my hot water bottle them equally whereas I think you show a preference.

[20:27] Susan Blackwell: Oh I'm teasing you you're like do I really no I think kitty buddy is equally snugly she is snugly but she also is mouthy so like the little take her to a like a a senior living facility that's right because she would just like maul some old lady's papery little hand.

[20:47] Laura Camien: Yeah that wouldn't be good yeah but but nonetheless I think that would be a great that's a great great spark.

[20:53] Susan Blackwell: So this is uh it in the U It's a grocery store chain in the UK that put in these quote talking tables.

[21:00] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:00] Susan Blackwell: I just think it's again, it's it's signs that people understanding what elderly people need, in this case, anyone, like it's a human connection. You know, everyone's craving it in some way. So, you know, pop in and sit down at a table and talk to a stranger, knowing that is the intention, you know.

[21:22] Laura Camien: But I also read about a program called Nuns and Nuns. This is the pairing of a nun, as in the Catholic Church, N-U-N, and a nun, millennial. These are defined as younger people who check none of the above in any religious preference questions.

[21:40] Susan Blackwell: So if they're asked, like, what you know, what do you believe in, or what are you in none, none of the above.

[21:47] Laura Camien: So they say they call it nuns and nuns, and they team up a nun with a millennial, and they share thoughts and ideas and companionships and form friendships, meaningful engagement. Again, this is in the UK.

[22:00] Susan Blackwell: And UK's got it going on.

[22:02] Laura Camien: They do. And in some places they're trying out a new idea where the younger person can actually get affordable housing in the convent.

[22:13] Susan Blackwell: Is that where they live?

[22:14] Laura Camien: They live in a convent, right?

[22:15] Susan Blackwell: Sure.

[22:15] Laura Camien: Um and uh what they can do in exchange is just help the elderly nuns in return. I mean, they're finding that like it's a benefit to everyone.

[22:25] Susan Blackwell: It makes so much sense.

[22:27] Laura Camien: Wow. So what do we make of all of this? First of all, if you write characters of all ages, it's just such a great reminder of the full humanity of a person, regardless of their age.

[22:43] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[22:44] Laura Camien: Amen. You know what I mean? Like we just don't often get characters of older people that are living a full experience. Um I think the Posh Club is a great setting for a scene. A comedy or a tragedy, frankly.

[23:02] Susan Blackwell: I think there's so much potential.

[23:06] Laura Camien: It's a great way to have characters meet, multi-generational characters. If there's other people that have posh club like ideas to create those uh happenings, like volunteer-based happenings.

[23:21] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[23:22] Laura Camien: For people in the community, that's an amazing spark. I just wrote, like, what about hosting a party yourself or check in on an older person that you know, find out if they're getting out enough. They might just crave more contact with others, but they might be afraid to ask for it, you know.

[23:38] Susan Blackwell: Um, if you have a skill to share, might you share that with people who are older or younger than you?

[23:46] Laura Camien: Um, oh, oh, you know what else you could do? You can celebrate someone older. A few weeks back, did you see this comment that was going around on social media? I'm so sorry, I cannot credit this woman because I don't remember. Um, but someone essentially posted something about the ridiculousness that we have all of these like 20 under 20 lists, 30 under 30.

[24:09] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[24:09] Laura Camien: And she pointed out that, you know, we're always celebrating the speed with which someone accomplishes something and how young they are is the focus. But there's no list to celebrate those who like figured it out after a certain age, or maybe kept pushing to accomplish something they'd always wanted, maybe switched careers and are now doing something worth noting.

[24:29] Susan Blackwell: Well, she posted this thought and it got a ton of traffic on social media.

[24:35] Laura Camien: Like I saw it in a number of places.

[24:37] Susan Blackwell: And I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, but you know, in my line of business, I don't believe in coincidence.

[24:44] Laura Camien: I'm kidding.

[24:45] Susan Blackwell: Sorry, I just isn't that in every bit of writing, any every bit of like uh FBI. You know, in my line of business. I don't believe in coincidence. And Kawinky Dinkesses.

[24:54] Laura Camien: So I don't know if this was a coincidence or not.

[24:57] Susan Blackwell: But Forbes just announced that they're partnering with the Know Your Worth initiative, and they are doing a list for the first time ever, 50 over 50.

[25:08] Laura Camien: Oh.

[25:08] Susan Blackwell: They say they're committed to shining a light on a group of 50 diverse women who have achieved significant success later in life, often by overcoming formidable challenges or odds. The nominations are open now. So honestly, if you are if you can think of someone, get out there and nominate some incredible woman that you know.

[25:28] Laura Camien: Wow.

[25:29] Susan Blackwell: Wern amazing. That is my mini spark. It's short and it's sweet, but it really moved me.

[25:35] Laura Camien: Sweet spark.

[25:35] Susan Blackwell: I'm moved by it too. And as you were talking, one of the things I make of this is I have an older friend who I was just thinking this morning, uh, noticeably not hearing back as much.

[25:51] Laura Camien: No, like a little bit less responsive to texts and emails.

[25:56] Susan Blackwell: Yep. And they don't live near me. So I it's gonna require a little more that I be a little more tenacious.

[26:03] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[26:04] Susan Blackwell: And even going to where they are to make sure that because I think there's a little bit of a uh struggle as they age with remaining engaged.

[26:16] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[26:16] Susan Blackwell: And so what can I do to have a positive impact on that person's life?

[26:22] Laura Camien: That's right.

[26:23] Susan Blackwell: There's a mini spark from your spark.

[26:25] Laura Camien: That's right.

[26:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[26:26] Laura Camien: That's great.

[26:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I just love, I love anything that like rearranges the furniture in my brain.

[26:31] Laura Camien: You know, that has been there for a long time.

[26:34] Susan Blackwell: And it's like, ooh, a fresh perspective on this.

[26:37] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[26:37] Susan Blackwell: Things I hadn't thought about before. What a great spark.

[26:42] Laura Camien: A little sparkly sparkler.

[26:44] Susan Blackwell: It really brought me a lot of delight. It killed me with delight this week.

[26:47] Laura Camien: It did.

[26:47] Susan Blackwell: This article really did.

[26:49] Laura Camien: Killed with delight. Should we take a little breaky pill?

[26:52] Susan Blackwell: Sure.

[26:54] Laura Camien: Ah, freshly peed.

[26:55] Susan Blackwell: Freshly peed. Cams, that was so good.

[26:58] Laura Camien: Oh, thank you.

[26:59] Susan Blackwell: Thank you so much. I love that.

[27:01] Laura Camien: I love that.

[27:02] Susan Blackwell: And it it I thought I knew where you were headed, and you totally took a left turn at Albuquerque.

[27:07] Laura Camien: I love that too.

[27:08] Susan Blackwell: Where did you think I was going?

[27:09] Laura Camien: I thought for sure you were headed. Do you know daybreakers?

[27:12] Susan Blackwell: I feel like I'm going to be able to do that.

[27:13] Laura Camien: Daybreakers is like that early morning dance, like sober dancing.

[27:20] Susan Blackwell: For like any age.

[27:21] Laura Camien: Like any age, you get up and you dance your pants off before you go to your job.

[27:26] Susan Blackwell: Is that sort of like aerobics?

[27:28] Laura Camien: I mean, maybe there's an exercise component, there's a social component, there's also a like breathe the day component.

[27:34] Susan Blackwell: Um instead of caffeine for anything.

[27:38] Laura Camien: Instead of a cup of coffee, yeah, go to daybreakers.

[27:40] Susan Blackwell: Daybreakers.

[27:41] Laura Camien: Um, I've got a spark for you, but it is it's a it's a big doozy. So let's get into it. Sit back and relax. My spark title. He had one question. My spark sources, the podcast Heavyweight, hosted by Jonathan Goldstein, an article by Jeffrey Lyle Siegel on T2conline.com, an article by Andrew Lappin on MomentMag.com, Eliza Story.org, an article in the New York Times by Karen Blankfeld, Trigger Warning, aka T W A K A T Dubs.

[28:19] Susan Blackwell: There's some heavy shit in the spark. Do what you gotta do to take care of yourself.

[28:23] Laura Camien: Camps.

[28:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Did you happen to see an article in the New York Times? It was published back in December, and the headline was Lovers in Auschwitz, reunited 72 years later. He had one question. Does that ring a bell?

[28:38] Laura Camien: Oh my God, no, but I am in there for this.

[28:43] Susan Blackwell: So this writer named Karen Blankfeld wrote a beautiful article for the New York Times about a man named David Wisnia and a woman named Helen Spitzer, her nickname Zippy, which is a spark. It's a great nickname, it's a great pet name, it's a great everything. In her article, Karen Blankfeld tells how David, who was then 17 and Zippy, who was then 25, met in 1943 by the Auschwitz crematory. And how David immediately knew that Zippy was no regular inmate. She was always neat and clean and smelled good.

[29:24] Laura Camien: Wait, wait, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Inmate.

[29:25] Susan Blackwell: Inmate.

[29:26] Laura Camien: Wait. What year is this?

[29:28] Susan Blackwell: 1943.

[29:29] Laura Camien: So they are in Auschwitz.

[29:30] Susan Blackwell: They're in Auschwitz.

[29:32] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh. Okay.

[29:33] Susan Blackwell: And they meet by the crematory. Okay, thank you for that. Clear it.

[29:36] Laura Camien: Yes. Thank you for shit. There's so much to cover. I'm probably a sound zippy myself. So thanks for let's break it down. Amazing.

[29:44] Susan Blackwell: So Zippy was David knew she was no regular inmate. She was always neat and clean and she smelled good. And she was a woman outside of the women's quarters, freely speaking to a male prisoner. Interesting. They were introduced by a fellow inmate at Zippy's request, and before David knew it, they were alone together. All the prisoners around them were gone. And he later realized that none of it was coincidental. It was all orchestrated by Zippy.

[30:10] Laura Camien: By Zippy.

[30:11] Susan Blackwell: Which I love. Go on and get what you need, Zippy girl. Wow. Anyway, they made a plan to meet again in a week. So a week later, David went as planned to meet between crematories four and five, and he climbed on top of a makeshift ladder that was made up of like packages and bundles of prisoners' clothes. So imagine the sort of like tower of prisoners' clothes arranged into this sort of an a ladder. Not in boxes, but just piles.

[30:40] Laura Camien: It sounded like bundles.

[30:42] Susan Blackwell: Okay. It sounded to me, it sounded like bundles. Wow. Again, Zippy had arranged it. She had arranged a space that they could crawl up into in the midst of hundreds of these bundles of clothing, and it was just large enough to fit the two of them. Like seated, standing, lying down. I'm so curious about it. I want to go with lying down.

[31:04] Laura Camien: So is our is what I'm picturing happening happening?

[31:07] Susan Blackwell: Is that why they're meeting?

[31:08] Laura Camien: Yep.

[31:09] Susan Blackwell: From the very first, from the jump.

[31:11] Laura Camien: Not the very first meeting.

[31:12] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[31:12] Laura Camien: The second meeting.

[31:13] Susan Blackwell: Okay. At the age of 93, David reminisced, I had no knowledge of what, when, where, she taught me everything.

[31:21] Laura Camien: Oh my.

[31:22] Susan Blackwell: So, yes, Cam's. If we are reading this correctly, Zippy saw David, was attracted to him and orchestrated a way for them to spend precious time alone together and enjoy each other in these very extreme circumstances.

[31:36] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[31:38] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. They became lovers and they would meet in their little space between the crematories amidst the bundles of clothing. Below the bundles of clothing down on the ground, Zippy had paid fellow prisoners with food to keep watch for 30 to 60 minutes, and they were prepared to warn David and Zippy if a Nazi guard was coming.

[31:59] Laura Camien: How did she get enough food to like pay off other people?

[32:04] Susan Blackwell: How are they? I'm sorry, but every time you say they're above the crematory, I'm just like I know. What the oh my god, there's so much going on here.

[32:13] Laura Camien: There, but we're gonna find a way to survive. This is survival skills. People find a way. It really reminds me of um, did you ever read the book in 1984, The Orwell book?

[32:24] Susan Blackwell: Ages ago, yeah.

[32:25] Laura Camien: It reminds me of how um the characters in that book would find a way to kind of create these escapes for each other and come together and just frankly have recreational sex. Like because what else can you do? Like it is a free, one of the free pleasurable things in this world when people have taken everything else from you.

[32:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, and if you're zippy, you'll find a way.

[32:49] Laura Camien: Oh my god. Get it, Zippy.

[32:51] Susan Blackwell: I love Zippy.

[32:52] Laura Camien: I love Zippy.

[32:53] Susan Blackwell: So they also knew they were putting their lives in danger, but they really look forward to their dates with each other. And David said he felt special that Zippy had chosen him.

[33:03] Laura Camien: Of course.

[33:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. While they were both Jewish inmates and Auschwitz, they were both also privileged prisoners. David's okay, trigger warning.

[33:12] Laura Camien: David's original job was this is so grim.

[33:16] Susan Blackwell: He was assigned to the corpse unit and forced to collect the bodies of prisoners who committed suicide by throwing themselves against the electric fences.

[33:25] Laura Camien: Can you even imagine?

[33:27] Susan Blackwell: Do you're just imagine yourself? Imagine myself being forced to do a job like that. But the Nazis soon discovered that he was a talented singer.

[33:40] Laura Camien: Zeppi had an even more high-powered position.

[33:44] Susan Blackwell: And this is amazing. And I never thought of this, but of course, she was the camp's graphic designer.

[33:52] Laura Camien: What?

[33:53] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[33:54] Laura Camien: What?

[33:55] Susan Blackwell: Yes. She had come from Slovakia where she had attended technical college and was the first woman in the region to finish an apprenticeship as a graphic artist.

[34:05] Laura Camien: So she had usable skills.

[34:08] Susan Blackwell: What are they like in need of graphic designer?

[34:13] Laura Camien: We're gonna get to it.

[34:14] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god! She was among the first Jewish women to arrive in Auschwitz in March of 1942, along with about 2,000 other unmarried women.

[34:25] Laura Camien: At first, she was assigned to this grueling demolition work at Birkenau where she was malnourished, perpetually ill, she had typhus, malaria, diarrhea.

[34:34] Susan Blackwell: Can you even imagine? And she's doing this grueling demolition work while sick. It's just the mind boggles.

[34:42] Laura Camien: If that wasn't hideous enough, a chimney collapsed on her while she was working and it injured her back.

[34:48] Susan Blackwell: But that accident might have been a blessing in disguise because through her connections, her ability to speak German, her graphic design skills, and sheer luck, Zippy got an office job.

[34:58] Laura Camien: Wow.

[34:59] Susan Blackwell: Here we go. What do you do if you're the graphic designer? One of her first assignments was mixing red paint and varnish to draw a vertical stripe on female prisoners' uniforms.

[35:11] Laura Camien: So somebody has to make signs, put stripes that indicate you know what I mean.

[35:16] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So that was um one of her first jobs. Then she had another piece of her job where she started registering all the females that arrived to the camp.

[35:26] Laura Camien: By the time Zippy met David, she was working in a shared office with another Jewish woman, and they were responsible for organizing Nazi paperwork and tracking the camp's labor force.

[35:37] Susan Blackwell: So they were doing, in addition to her graphic design work, they were doing administrative work.

[35:44] Laura Camien: And she's like, she had a she was sharing another office.

[35:47] Susan Blackwell: Amazing. I it's something I I mean, I don't have the deepest knowledge of history, as we all know, but I didn't, I just I hadn't thought of this.

[35:58] Laura Camien: I mean, uh again, we're repeating things here, but the things that people did, the mind needs, you know, a way to not be experiencing what they're experiencing.

[36:11] Susan Blackwell: Also to work to be creative, to be self-expressed, to make love, all of these things.

[36:16] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:17] Susan Blackwell: As her responsibilities grew, Zippy was free to move around within parts of the camp and sometimes was even allowed outside of the camps.

[36:26] Laura Camien: She showered regularly, she didn't have to wear an armband.

[36:30] Susan Blackwell: She the I love this. She used her position to help inmates and allies, and she used her design skills to manipulate paperwork and reassign prisoners to different job assignments and different barracks.

[36:43] Laura Camien: No, she was using her graphic design skills to like doctor and alter paperwork and also like help peep move people around and stuff like that.

[36:54] Susan Blackwell: Yes. She had act because of her position, she had access to official camp reports, which she shared with various resistance groups.

[37:01] Laura Camien: Zippy, fucking badass, a bucket of sparks.

[37:07] Susan Blackwell: A hero. In fact, she was the subject of a book edited by someone named I'm probably gonna get this wrong, Jürgen Mathaus of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

[37:17] Laura Camien: In the book, Zippy is interviewed by five different historians, each chronicling her life from a different perspective.

[37:25] Susan Blackwell: Whoa. I think this that in and of itself is an amazing spark where you give appropriate attention to an amazing subject like that.

[37:35] Laura Camien: Because Zippy was the shit, and she lived this very remarkable life.

[37:40] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And so I just this gives me that gives me full body chills, the thought of really examining a subject like that from five different perspectives and putting it in one book.

[37:53] Laura Camien: These are like the small heroic actions that people took during that war that didn't get you know all of the attention as like the big battles and the you know decisions that are made on a grand scale, but the subversive ways that every human being was fighting the battle day to day.

[38:15] Susan Blackwell: How about that graphic design spark? Use your use your skills to doctor the paperwork.

[38:19] Laura Camien: Come on.

[38:20] Susan Blackwell: That's incredible. So back to Zippy and David.

[38:22] Laura Camien: Okay.

[38:23] Susan Blackwell: Um, when they would meet up for their dates, which was about once a month, they didn't talk much.

[38:28] Laura Camien: They were busy, getting busy.

[38:30] Susan Blackwell: Um, but when they did talk, they should they would share brief snippets about themselves and their past.

[38:35] Laura Camien: David's father had loved opera, which had sparked his love of singing.

[38:41] Susan Blackwell: His dad and the rest of David's family died in the Warsaw ghetto.

[38:45] Laura Camien: Zippy also loved music, and she taught David this Hungarian folk song.

[38:49] Susan Blackwell: So they they spent their time together, I think mostly making love, but they would, you know, tell each other a little bit about each other.

[38:55] Laura Camien: Um this is from this article.

[38:59] Susan Blackwell: Karen Blank felt so good. For a few months they managed to be each other's escape, but they knew these visits wouldn't last.

[39:06] Laura Camien: One afternoon in 1944, they realized it would probably be their final climb up to their nook.

[39:12] Susan Blackwell: The Nazis were transporting the last of the camp prisoners on death marches and destroying evidence of their crimes.

[39:18] Laura Camien: Around them, death was everywhere.

[39:20] Susan Blackwell: Still, the lovers planned a life together, a future outside of Auschwitz.

[39:25] Laura Camien: They knew they would be separated, but they planned after the fighting was done to reunite.

[39:30] Susan Blackwell: During this last rendezvous, they made a promise to each other that they would meet in Warsaw when the war was over at a community center.

[39:38] Laura Camien: It took them 72 years.

[39:41] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God. Which leads me to my spark today finishing unfinished business.

[39:47] Laura Camien: Oh Cammy.

[39:49] Susan Blackwell: Cammy, and we you are crying, and we have so much more spark to go.

[39:54] Laura Camien: I don't even okay.

[39:56] Susan Blackwell: I have so many questions. But do you want to ask anything?

[39:59] Laura Camien: No, because it'll just, I'm sure you're gonna tell me.

[40:01] Susan Blackwell: So I'm gonna tell you.

[40:02] Laura Camien: I'll ask if you don't tell me.

[40:03] Susan Blackwell: Okay. So finishing unfinished business. My friend Tom Schulteis and I talk about the power of finishing unfinished business all the goddamn time.

[40:12] Laura Camien: We talk about it in life.

[40:14] Susan Blackwell: We talk about it in the context of a workshop we created called Let Me Try That Again, which is a workshop about how to process failure, perceived failure.

[40:22] Laura Camien: Um sparks on Sparks.

[40:24] Susan Blackwell: Let Me Try That Again is actually a benefit that our friends Jonathan Bernstein and Steve Pasquale dreamt up for the performing arts project, where Broadway performers get to revisit a moment in their creative or performative lives where they just totally shit the bed, and then they get to do um Let Me Try That Again, and they take another swing at the whole thing.

[40:43] Laura Camien: Um, the Let Me Try That Again concept and the workshop operate under the belief that as long as you're alive, you can clean things up, you can take another try at something, you can extend the story and write a new ending, you can finish some unfinished business.

[40:59] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it's best summed up in the words of John Lennon. Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.

[41:06] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[41:07] Susan Blackwell: So this touches on some of the stuff I talked about in my spark on the art of dying well. In her book, uh The Art of Dying Well, Katie Butler refers to a TED talk given by an EMT named Matthew O'Reilly.

[41:19] Laura Camien: In his work as an EMT, he has attended to many people dying on the side of the highway after automobile accidents.

[41:25] Susan Blackwell: And he says, Most people have three pieces of unfinished business. They have regrets and want to be forgiven. They fear they'll be forgotten and hope they'll be remembered, and they want to know that their lives had meaning.

[41:39] Laura Camien: Katie Butler in her book goes on to say, Ask yourself, what stands in the way right now of your dying in peace?

[41:46] Susan Blackwell: What do you regret? What do you fear? Do you feel that your life has meaning? I'll add to that, sometimes the unfinished business can be a question that you need to have answered, some sort of open loop that needs to be closed, or something that just you want to resolve for yourself.

[42:03] Susan Blackwell: I believe that finishing unfinished business can be a powerful creative spark. And I've seen it again and again and again in all those performances at Let Me Try That Again. Cam's, I'm sure I've told you the story. Please enjoy it again. There's this amazing Broadway performer named Betsy Wolf, who I just think is the shit. And at Let Me Try That Again, Betsy told this story about when she had her first audition for the esteemed Broadway director, James Lepine. I think it was for a Sondheim show. And the night before, she decided she wasn't going to sing a Sondheim song. She already knew she was gonna learn a new song. And not just any new song, but one of the fastest, most lyrically complicated of all of Sondheim's songs, which is saying so much.

So at Let Me Try That Again, Betsy gives, oh my God, she I wish there was a video of this. She gave this miraculous performance where she recreated her audition for Sondheim singing this butchered version of a song called Another Hundred People. Do you know that?

[43:11] Laura Camien: I don't know it.

[43:12] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God. It's really fast. It goes, and another hundred people just got off of the train and off of the plane, and they're looking on the bus and then up and her fuck-ups were crazy. She was like, and another hundred people just got off of the bus, and I'm riding the bus, and the bus is named Gus. And it was one of the it was so fucking funny. Because even if you're not a performer, you knew the pain of just fucking up in a super high-stakes situation. And then Betsy Wolf, let me try that again by singing the song with the benefit of the correct lyrics and full preparation. And oh my God, I can honestly say I understood that song for the first time. Wow. It was a masterclass. It was a revelation. It was it was first it was so hilarious and just like the hilarious, but also out of pain. And then this gorgeous example of finishing unfinished business.

[44:10] Susan Blackwell: I think of another example, Eliza Hamilton, who, after her husband Alexander, was killed in a duel, she set about to secure her husband's legacy. From the website ElizaStory.org. In 1806, Mrs. Isabella Graham, president of the Society for the Relief of Poor Widows with Small Children, needed help caring for six children whose widowed mothers had recently died. She enlisted the help of her recently widowed friend, Eliza Hamilton, whose husband, Alexander Hamilton, had been killed by Aaron Burr in a famous duel two years before. Eliza knew the hardship her husband had suffered as an orphan child of an unwed mother. In addition to raising their own seven children, the Hamiltons had adopted a daughter and opened their home to other orphaned or neglected children.

Eliza called them little Alexanders. Oh God. I know. Eliza joined forces with Mrs. Graham and other prominent women to create the Orphan Asylum Society in the city of New York, the city's first private orphanage. The orphanage, I think that is Eliza taking the opportunity to finish unfinished business. She might not be able to go back in time and ease the way for the orphan child that became her husband, but she can let me try that again in his honor and memory. And she's also finished the unfinished business of solidifying his legacy.

[45:34] Susan Blackwell: That's right. So that's right. That to me, she worked so hard in the chapters of her life after he passed away. And I think so much of it was about completing unfinished business. And she knew it was on her to do it. She wouldn't get done.

[45:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[45:52] Susan Blackwell: How are you doing over there, Cam?

[45:54] Laura Camien: I'm okay.

[45:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[45:55] Laura Camien: Taking me for a ride.

[45:57] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Sorry. Um, another example of finishing unfinished business. Oh, Cameon.

[46:03] Laura Camien: Camion.

[46:08] Susan Blackwell: This creative spark. Oh my gosh. There is a podcast called Heavyweight hosted by Jonathan Goldstein. You might recognize Jonathan as a contributor to This American Life. He also hosted a podcast called Wiretap. Heavyweight is a podcast that I love, wherein Jonathan Goldstein helps someone find closure on some sort of event from their past. This might happen. And it is crazy how diverse the topics are. So it could be something like Jonathan might help the victim of a car accident connect with a remorseful driver who struck that gas. Or um help a person who is not accustomed to saying it say the words, I love you to a parent. He helps people finish unfinished business. I'm thankful for him. He's a very good podcaster. He's a fantastic storyteller.

[47:11] Susan Blackwell: Um of the most powerful episodes of Heavyweight features a juror who regretted the vote that they cast during a trial, which sentenced a person to death. Oh gosh. Jonathan Goldstein brings together the man from the jury and the mother of the convicted man. And it is for that for the participants, especially the juror. It's intense. But I was gonna like sort of unpack the episode, but I would rather say just go listen to it. The title of the episode is Sven. Oh. Each person in the equation provides something for the other person. Each person is able to hear something that provides them peace or solace. And there is this Jonathan Goldstein is pulling off a magic trick. There is this visceral, palpable sense that this great burden has been lifted off of the subject of that episode of the podcast. In a podcast. And you can feel it in a podcast.

[48:13] Susan Blackwell: And thus the title of the podcast Heavyweight. Fun sidebar, host Jonathan Goldstein's wife Emily suggested that the title of the podcast be Jonathan Goldstein Medicine Woman, which I think is a fantastic spark. Um, in an interview on the New York Times podcast club, which is a spark, it's sort of like a book club, except everyone in the audience listens to a podcast episode, and then that audience convenes and a panel comes together to discuss the podcast, which I think is such a fun spark. Good job, New York Times.

[48:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[48:44] Susan Blackwell: Um, Jonathan said he created the heavyweight podcast around regret, and I think finishing unfinished business, and he does it all with this really phenomenal mix. It's my favorite blend of sincerity and humor. It is the best. In an article on MomentMag.com, Andrew Lapin, Le Pen, Le Pont, um writes: helping friends strangers alike find catharsis enclosure within themselves is no small task. That Goldstein gets there time and time again and makes his listeners feel the journey every step of the way is nothing short of a minor miracle. I'm honestly in awe.

[49:24] Susan Blackwell: It is so cool the way there's an episode, one of the first episodes I listened to, a really good friend of Jonathan's was the person who gave this Alan Lomax box set of recordings of sort of folk music that he gave it to this artist to be like, I think you would dig this. I think this would be a spark for you to make something out of. That artist was Moby, and he ended up making all of that really successful Moby music that samples the Alan Lomax recordings. Wow. And this friend, all he wanted, he's like, I want my box set back. I want my box set back. I think what he really wanted was to be acknowledged as the person who handed Moby the spark. But it's a really interesting they go and they taught they meet with Moby. Like they go and they wow.

[50:17] Laura Camien: Wow.

[50:17] Susan Blackwell: And it's that is a fascinating episode. It's a great example of what it looks like on the outside, what it feels like on the inside.

[50:24] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[50:24] Susan Blackwell: Because Moby talks about, gosh, this is sparks on sparks on sparks on tangent sparks, but Moby talks about how at the height of his success when he was when he was just like everywhere, everything, crushing it, top of the charts. He was um at it was one of the most depressed, isolated times of his life.

[50:42] Laura Camien: Oh god.

[50:43] Susan Blackwell: So it's a really interesting thing. Fascinating.

[50:45] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[50:46] Susan Blackwell: It's it's a I love this podcast. I love it.

[50:48] Laura Camien: Oh I can't wait to listen.

[50:50] Susan Blackwell: Listeners, you may feel differently. I really enjoyed it.

[50:52] Laura Camien: I can't wait to listen.

[50:54] Susan Blackwell: Because there's something about the satisfaction. It reminds me of your puzzle piece spark, the satisfaction of completing something.

[51:01] Laura Camien: Yes.

[51:02] Susan Blackwell: Is very satisfying. And the alleviating that nagging, you know, that I think is in your subconscious at every moment of every day when you have an unfinished thing.

[51:17] Laura Camien: Yes.

[51:17] Susan Blackwell: It's in there and you can quiet it. You can resolve it and it can rest. I love it. The thing I like about finishing unfinished business in our creativity is that you get to explore something, find peace with it, and then make something potentially awesome out of it. I think as humans, there's so much that needs to be done and completed. So it's super satisfying to even simply bear witness to completion, like like the heavyweight podcast. Um, so even if you're not finishing the unfinished business, you could be the artist or writer or documentarian who captures a piece of unfinished business being finished.

[51:57] Laura Camien: That's right.

[51:58] Susan Blackwell: Like the podcast.

[51:58] Laura Camien: That's right.

[51:59] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Um, but Jonathan Goldstein is also a catalyst. He's not just a passive observer, he's also really bringing people together and helping people get past some things that have kept them from finishing their business. To that end, let us return to Karen Blankfeld's story and the New York Times about Zippy and David.

[52:18] Susan Blackwell: It's an afternoon in 1944. Zippy and David are up in their nook for the final time. By this point, while most prisoners made it past a few months in Auschwitz, Zippy and David had survived for more than two years. Oh my god. In Auschwitz alone, 1.1 million people were murdered. So Zippy and David had beat extraordinary odds already. Oh my God. But now the Nazis are transporting the last of the camp prisoners on death marches and destroying evidence of their crimes. Zippy and David know they're going to be separated, but they promise each other that they will meet in Warsaw when the war is over at a community center. David leaves Auschwitz before Zippy on one of the last transports out of camp. He's transferred to the Dachau concentration camp. And soon after, during a death march from Dachau, he happens upon a hand shovel. He strikes an SS guard and he runs.

[52:33] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[53:17] Susan Blackwell: Yes. The next day. Can you imagine the fucking in the moment courage?

[53:22] Laura Camien: Oh God.

[53:23] Susan Blackwell: To see opportunity and take it. That's it. Take it. The next day, while hiding in a barn, he hears what he thinks are Soviet troops approaching. He again, the courage. He runs out to the tanks and hopes for the best, and it turns out to be Americans.

[53:41] Laura Camien: David cannot believe his good fortune since he is 10 years old. He has dreamt of singing opera in New York. His mother's two sisters had emigrated to the Bronx in the 30s and he had memorized their address.

[53:55] Susan Blackwell: And Karen Blankfeld describes it as it was almost like a prayer. Their address was like a prayer he recited while he was in the camp. Oh my God. And here he is face to face with soldiers from the 101st airborne. They hear his tale, they adopt him, they feed him, they give him a uniform, they hand him a machine gun, they teach him how to use it. And he decided Europe was his past. He didn't want anything to do with it anymore. He said at that moment he became 110% American.

[54:25] Laura Camien: Even though I know, I know, and I know you know and love this time period in history.

[54:31] Susan Blackwell: So well, my grandpa was 101st Airborne.

[54:34] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[54:35] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. That is an amazing. That's an amazing story.

[54:38] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[54:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. That really narrows down the numbers. How many people were members of the 101st Airborne?

[54:45] Laura Camien: I don't know. I'd have to look that up.

[54:47] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[54:47] Laura Camien: I don't have any sense of anything.

[54:49] Susan Blackwell: So is it like 10,000 people or is it like a hundred people?

[54:54] Laura Camien: It's somewhere in between, but somewhere definitely not 10,000.

[54:57] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[54:58] Laura Camien: Okay. I I am so bad. History, numbers, you name it.

[55:01] Susan Blackwell: Okay. So even though, as a pole, he couldn't become a full-fledged GI. David performed many jobs after the war with the American army. He sometimes, one of his jobs was he sometimes drove to the displaced persons camp in the city of Feldifing to deliver supplies. Once he joined the Americans, though, his plan to meet Zippy in Warsaw was no longer even a consideration for him. America was his future.

[55:27] Laura Camien: Yeah, it was America, America, America. Meanwhile, Zippy is among the last to leave the camp alive. She goes to other camps before being evacuated on a death march. She and a friend escape the march by removing the red stripe that she herself had once painted on their uniforms, which allowed them to blend in with the locals who were fleeing.

[55:50] Susan Blackwell: How about that?

[55:52] Laura Camien: You put the stripes upon you take the stripes. She knew how to take it off. I think she need to know that she I think she probably knew she had mixed the paint and the varnish to make the stripes. She probably was the best person. Wow. The most qualified person to remove it. Oh my God. So millions of survivors were displaced, and Europe was just teeming with displaced persons camps. Some 500 such camps materialized in Germany. Amidst all the chaos, Zippy makes it to the first all Jewish displaced persons camp in the American zone of occupied Germany, a camp called Feldefing, the same camp that David is delivering supplies to.

[56:35] Susan Blackwell: You're kidding.

[56:36] Laura Camien: The odds that they would be in the same place is incredible.

[56:42] Susan Blackwell: You are kidding.

[56:43] Laura Camien: That's and David said I would drive over there to Feldefing, but I had no idea she was there.

[56:50] Susan Blackwell: They didn't know.

[56:52] Laura Camien: They didn't know. Oh my God. Soon after she arrives in Feldefing, Zippy marries a man named Erwin Tyshauer. Now 27, Zippy is again running things. She's distributing food among the displaced people. She and her husband go on to devote, they devote years of their lives to humanitarian causes. They go on missions through the United Nations to Peru and Bolivia and Indonesia. Throughout their travels, she continues to learn new languages and use her design skills to help populations in need. There's a spark for you. Particularly pregnant women and new mothers. Her existence is not defined by her experience as a Holocaust survivor. She has this much richer life, and there is so much that she and her husband achieve together, and they end up in New York.

[57:41] Laura Camien: Meanwhile, David ends up in New York too.

[57:44] Susan Blackwell: What?

[57:45] Laura Camien: Yes. But in a rush to make up for lost time, he throws himself into New York City life and he's going to dances and he's going to parties and he gets this job selling encyclopedias. The story's got it all. In 1947, at a wedding, he meets his future wife, Hope, and they move to Pennsylvania, and he becomes vice president of sales for the encyclopedia company until his career as a professional cantor takes off. Um, years later, a mutual friend tells David that Zippy is in New York City. David, who had told his wife about Zippy, thought that this might be an opportunity to reconnect, and he could finally ask her the question he had always wanted to ask her.

[58:26] Laura Camien: Their mutual friend arranges a meeting. David drives two hours from Leva Town, Pennsylvania to Manhattan, and he waits at a hotel lobby across from Central Park, but Zippy never shows up. David says he found out afterwards that Zippy decided it wouldn't be smart. She was married, she had a husband. But David keeps tabs on Zippy, and his family continues to grow, four children, six grandchildren. In 2016, he again attempts to reconnect with Zippy, and finally she agrees to a visit. In August 2016, David takes two of his grandchildren. They drive two hours from Levitown to Manhattan. It's been 72 years since he's last seen.

[59:11] Susan Blackwell: 72 years.

[59:14] Laura Camien: David and his grandchildren arrive at Zippy's apartment. They find her lying in a hospital bed. She never had any kids. She's been alone since her husband died in 1996. She's been looked after by caretakers. She's become increasingly blind and deaf. At first, Zippy doesn't recognize David, and then he leans in real close and her eyes open wide. And there's this recognition and this flurry of conversation and catching up, and they tell each other where they've been since they parted. They talk for two hours. Then he finally asks the one question he has wanted to ask her all of these years. Did she have something to do with the fact that he'd managed to survive in Auschwitz all that time?

[1:00:01] Laura Camien: Zippy holds up five fingers and says, I saved you five times from bad shipment. And David says, I knew she would do that. And then she goes on. After she escaped the death march, she waited for him in Warsaw. Zippy had followed the plan, but David never came. Oh she tells David that she had loved him. He tells her that he had loved her too. After that visit, David and Zippy never saw each other again. She died in 2018 at 100 years old. But I think that by the time she died, it seems like they had finished what was unfinished between them.

[1:00:49] Susan Blackwell: So what has been made of it?

[1:00:51] Laura Camien: Oh. How are you doing over there, Cam?

[1:00:54] Susan Blackwell: Just don't mind me. Just over there, mopping it up with a rag.

[1:01:02] Laura Camien: Oh baby camps. Um, what has been made of it? Um, if you're Zippy, you use your design skills to help people. That's incredible. The ways that she helped people throughout her entire life with her yes, her intelligence and her language skills and her design skills. Uh it's just, it's really something. Um, if you're Karen Blankfeld, you write this gorgeous story in the New York Times that documents people finishing unfinished business. And I want to say I have only scratched the surface. Her writing takes it so much deeper. I encourage everyone to find the story and read it.

[1:01:45] Laura Camien: If you're Jonathan Goldstein, you make heavyweight and you surface and then help facilitate the completion of other people's unfinished business, and you document it so beautifully with humor and depth. Um, another idea, you can also transform unfinished business into gifts. So my friend Tom Schulteis, who I just mentioned, tells this story about his mom, Carol. Carol viewed her Aunt Rose as a mother figure, and Aunt Rose at some point made a tooth fairy pillow for Carol's daughter Michelle. The tooth fairy pillow was this little pillow, had a little pocket in it. And when Michelle would lose a tooth, they'd put the tooth in the pocket, and then the tooth fairy would come in the night, take the tooth, leave a little money in the pocket. In my day it was a quarter, I'm sure it's more now.

[1:02:35] Laura Camien: But um, many years later, Aunt Rose passed away, which was a great loss for Carol because she really viewed Aunt Rose as someone who loved her unconditionally. Um, many years later, Carol's kids were helping her clear stuff out of the house, and Carol was trying not to look at everything because she can have a hard time of letting go of material objects that she's sentimentally attached to. And her kids ended up throwing away the tooth fairy pillow. And Carol remembers lifting the lid of the trash can, seeing the pillow, and deciding in the moment she had to let it go, that she had too many things in her life. She had to let it go. She closed the lid, that was it. Then for the next, I'm not exaggerating, 13 years. Carol would bring up again and again and again and again the pain and regret of letting the pillow go and not just grabbing it.

[1:03:25] Laura Camien: So Tom had heard his mom Carol tell the story over and over again for 13 years. So one Mother's Day, Tom worked with his mother-in-law Winnie to make Carol a new tooth fairy pillow. He found similar fabric. He worked with Winnie on the design. He wrote a little poem and put it in the little pocket of the Tooth Fairy pillow. So Tom sent it to his mom Carol with the instructions that she had to be on the phone with him when she opened it. And when she opened it and saw what it was, she couldn't even speak. And though it wasn't the original pillow, Carol now had something to replace that painful loss. Yeah. And Tom acknowledged it, it was an object, and it's obviously much easier to replace than say a person.

But there was a lesson that he learned from it that there are opportunities to continue a story. It doesn't have to be final. His mother now has that pillow in one of her display cases, and he's never heard her talk about it in the same way again. He was glad he could bring some healing to her. He had extended the story and written a new ending for it.

[1:04:29] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Um that's beautiful.

[1:04:32] Laura Camien: So gifts are an idea. Uh, I think someone should make a film or a musical or something about Zippy and David.

[1:04:41] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god.

[1:04:41] Laura Camien: And these two characters that sort of like, you know, it starts with this, like literally starts with a bang, and it's like sort of like, and then history and time take them apart from each other, and then by the end, they make their way back to each other. It's so star-crossed. It's incredible. But also, I encourage people, if you're listening to this, it goes back to um, you know, if you're on the side of the highway and you're see feeling life drain out of you. You don't have to wait to that moment. Now ask yourself, what is unfinished? What would I like to resolve before I go? I think that's a good place to start with some sparks.

[1:05:24] Susan Blackwell: I think that um letters as well, I've found you know, and it's a use in therapy as well. So you can either send them or not send them, but the process of writing the letters and saying the things that you need to have said can also provide that similar sense of completion. Writing apologies, uh forgiving people forgiving, my gosh, forgiveness. That's uh so often the closure and completion that people need.

[1:05:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:05:55] Susan Blackwell: So Suze, what an amazing spark.

[1:05:59] Laura Camien: Oh cameo. I have to I can't I can't, I feel like I can't take credit for any of it. I feel like so much of it is about well, Zippy and David who lived this life, but Karen Blankfeld, who is just this gorgeous writer who takes basically lifetimes literally of information about people and coheses it into this beautiful narrative in this article. It's really gorgeous. And one of the rare stories that comes out of that time period that is it's still bittersweet, but there is sweetness in it that people found a way to have love amongst the destruction and the chaos.

[1:06:44] Laura Camien: I think the love is the only way that you survive any of that. It's like they gave themselves a little mental and emotional escape.

[1:06:53] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[1:06:54] Laura Camien: You know, yeah. Little escape hatch that they could go to for even minutes at a time.

[1:06:59] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[1:06:59] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:07:00] Susan Blackwell: Oh, uh Suze. Anything else about that? Any unfinished business about that business?

[1:07:07] Laura Camien: Yeah, no, but it does get me thinking about all right. So, what unfinished business do I have? And what should I, you know, complete? It's really thought provoking. I've got a few. I'm I've got a few that I'm percolating on, but I just am gonna keep my eyes open for it too. For myself, but also for others. Not to be a nude, not to get up in everybody's business. But just to let people know that sometimes the pain of unfinished business, there are ways to extend. Even if no other parties involved in the situation are still alive. I think as long as you live, there are ways to extend the story and find resolution in it.

[1:07:47] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[1:07:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[1:07:49] Susan Blackwell: I guess that's it.

[1:07:51] Laura Camien: Oh, Suze. We hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file. If there is a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, why don't you submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. And I will tell you, we are getting some good sparks coming into us to make up a new mailbag. So get in on that mailbag.

[1:08:11] Susan Blackwell: Get in.

[1:08:12] Laura Camien: We'll even take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[1:08:19] Susan Blackwell: Oh, and hey, here's another thing. Follow us on social media at the Sparks File and be sure to subscribe to this podcast.

[1:08:26] Laura Camien: There's so much homework with associated with this podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the video. Wherever you get your podcast, subscribe, rate, five star review it. If you like this podcast, share it with people you love. If you didn't like it, in the words of Zen Master Shunu Suzuki, not always so.

[1:08:46] Susan Blackwell: If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that has been knocking at your door.

[1:08:56] Laura Camien: It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame. You gotta conceive it. You gotta dream weave it. You gotta tell yourself you can create whatever you want. And then you gotta believe it. You gotta take it and make it.

[1:09:14] Susan Blackwell: Five friends and sparklers. When I bope into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files.

[1:09:27] Laura Camien: Could be something that I wanna pick or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark files.

[1:09:35] Susan Blackwell: Spark file.

[1:09:36] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark files.

[1:09:40] Susan Blackwell: Sparkfile.

[1:09:41] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark files.