This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: SparkFile podcast may contain profanity and other adult content. Please use your discretion.

[0:09] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Susan Blackwell: Spark to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Laura Camien: I pump it in my spark spa.

[0:26] Susan Blackwell: Spark.

[0:28] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark slide.

[0:32] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:36] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:42] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien and I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:50] Laura Camien: You should know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[0:57] Susan Blackwell: But you might also be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:01] Laura Camien: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations, all of your fascinations.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our personal sparkfiles and exchange some sparks.

[1:14] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:18] Susan Blackwell: And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:25] Laura Camien: So without further ado, let's open up the Spark File.

[1:30] Susan Blackwell: Oh Suze, how are you doing?

[1:35] Laura Camien: I'm well. Am I to understand that you shall be sharing a spark with me?

[1:40] Susan Blackwell: I shall be sharing a spark with you.

[1:43] Laura Camien: And today it's really I don't know. I'm excited to share this with you because this spark has been kind of rattling around in my brain for many months now.

[1:54] Susan Blackwell: But in recent weeks and due to recent events, it has kind of come into full focus and full feeling.

[2:04] Laura Camien: Exactly. It was one of those like, um, here's a half of a spark, and now I see now I see the whole picture.

[2:13] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm excited.

[2:14] Laura Camien: Yeah, I'm excited to tell you about it because I think I mentioned this little bit. A few months ago, two of my lovely friends at Little Island in New York City invited me to a talk by playwright Susan Laurie Parks.

[2:30] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[2:30] Laura Camien: Yeah, and I think I told you, like, there was about 14 different things that she said that sparked me. It was she was incredible.

[2:37] Susan Blackwell: Incredible.

[2:39] Laura Camien: And on this particular day, she was talking with Mayorah Carter, a real estate developer, an urban revitalization strategy consultant, also a MacArthur fellow, and Peabody Award-winning broadcaster.

[2:54] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[2:54] Laura Camien: So wow. There were some accomplished ladies on the stage.

[3:01] Susan Blackwell: And I did not realize that in addition to being a Tony Award Pulitzer Prize winning playwright, Susan Laurie Parks is also hugely into urban revitalization.

[3:13] Laura Camien: Wow.

[3:14] Susan Blackwell: And she's working on various projects to revitalize her neighborhood.

[3:19] Laura Camien: And she was talking among other things, but the one that relates to this spark is that she was talking about the value of communal spaces, like places where people gather, how these places literally save lives.

[3:38] Susan Blackwell: For example, if there is a community with a vibrant community center, a YMCA, a library, and the like, if and when a natural disaster hits, statistically, fewer people die in those neighborhoods than in the neighborhoods that do not have a community center.

[3:59] Laura Camien: And the reasons, like one seems obvious. Of course, there's a place to go if you need to go somewhere.

[4:05] Susan Blackwell: But number two, even when you are not there, those people who see you on a regular basis, who you gather with, they're the ones who will say, Hey, we haven't seen Joe in a day or two. Let's go check on Joe.

[4:21] Laura Camien: So knowing the people in your neighborhood can literally save your life. And she said so much more, but that little seed started to grow inside of me.

[4:33] Susan Blackwell: And it turns out that various studies show that social isolation can increase the risk of premature death by like 29%.

[4:45] Laura Camien: Which is on par with like the effects of smoking or obesity.

[4:51] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[4:51] Laura Camien: So if you're like a lifelong smoker, or you're socially isolated, same risk.

[4:59] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[5:00] Laura Camien: Yes. But in contrast, people who engage with their communities tend to live longer.

[5:07] Susan Blackwell: One long-term study found that strong social connections can boost life expectancy by as much as 50%.

[5:15] Laura Camien: And then so that's been rattling around for a little while. And then more recently, when the news of the election results arrived, and you and I felt a very real need to connect with each other and connect with our Sparkfile community.

[5:30] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[5:31] Laura Camien: And our community members started to reach out, checking on us, checking on each other, and expressing a desire to be together.

[5:40] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[5:40] Laura Camien: Once we gathered, even online, we all made space for each other's really, really big feelings.

[5:49] Susan Blackwell: And there was no feeling that was wrong or unacceptable. Some people were numb in denial or disassociation.

[5:59] Laura Camien: Some were angry, ready to take up the fight, get to work, some might like myself, weepy and sleepy, like I just want to cry it out, and then I want to get some good sleep.

[6:11] Susan Blackwell: That's it. I always feel better after that.

[6:13] Laura Camien: I just also have to add that when you announced that you felt weepy and sleepy, there emerged in the chat a whole host of other dwarves.

[6:25] Susan Blackwell: There was weeping and sleepy Disney and like groggy and foggy. Like there were all these other ones.

[6:34] Laura Camien: So clever.

[6:35] Susan Blackwell: But yeah, I always sometimes it's just very intentional. Like I need to figure out can I watch something or listen to something that will make me cry, and then I then I go to sleep.

[6:44] Laura Camien: Just weep a little and sleep a little.

[6:47] Susan Blackwell: But the point is we were all together and validating all of the human emotions that come up and supporting each other.

[6:58] Laura Camien: And I was once again reminded of the value and the vital nature of community.

[7:05] Susan Blackwell: And it's not just a nice to have, it's essential.

[7:10] Laura Camien: Yeah. So as it turns out, I'm learning that being a part of a community can not only save our individual lives and increase our well-being, it can actually save democracy.

[7:25] Susan Blackwell: I'm interested.

[7:27] Laura Camien: Okay. Lean in, Suze.

[7:30] Susan Blackwell: So I learned a lot of this from the documentary Join or Die, which is currently on Netflix.

[7:37] Laura Camien: I don't know if you've seen it or not.

[7:39] Susan Blackwell: I have not.

[7:40] Laura Camien: Oh my goodness. So it turns out that way back in the mid-90s, a social scientist, and I fucking love that there are social scientists. Can I just say?

[7:49] Susan Blackwell: Come on.

[7:52] Laura Camien: A social scientist. Who would you rather make out with? A social scientist or a historian?

[7:57] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God, why do you give me these tough choices?

[8:04] Laura Camien: Tough choices. You think about that. It's gonna come down to sense of humor, which one of them can actually like have a laugh about sense of humor, fresh breath. Then we'll see about it.

[8:15] Susan Blackwell: Great. So a social scientist named Bob Putnam started to sound the alarm about our democracy. This is in the mid-90s.

[8:22] Laura Camien: In the mid-90s, Suze, he wrote a paper about how Americans were joining fewer and fewer clubs.

[8:31] Susan Blackwell: And by clubs, he meant everything from book clubs, yeah, ring a bell, bowling clubs, religious clubs, the Elks Lodge, the Optimist Club, all the rest of them.

[8:44] Laura Camien: And then it's funny because in the documentary, they talk about how he wrote this paper, it made a big splash. People, you know, he was all over the news.

[8:53] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[8:54] Laura Camien: Then people, a little backlash, they were like, oh, that's not true. You didn't think about this, this, and this. And so he was like truly bothered by this criticism.

[9:04] Susan Blackwell: And he was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig in further.

[9:08] Laura Camien: He spent five more years researching, doubling down on like all of his outcomes were like, no, it's actually happening and it's still happening.

[9:18] Susan Blackwell: The decline is still, you know, in the works.

[9:21] Laura Camien: So in 2000, he published the book, Bowling Alone.

[9:25] Susan Blackwell: And Bowling Alone is all about the decline in America's social capital.

[9:29] Laura Camien: Susan Blackwell, I heard him being interviewed on NPR, and I am so so excited you're doing the spark.

[9:40] Susan Blackwell: Listen, I'm I was just like, wow, this is a hot topic, and it's resonating within me.

[9:50] Laura Camien: So what is social capital?

[9:52] Susan Blackwell: You say social capital refers to the networks, norms, and social trust that enable society to function effectively.

[10:02] Laura Camien: Whether that is joining a bowling league, participating in local organizations, volunteering, or simply engaging in face-to-face interactions, these activities weave the bonds that form communities.

[10:18] Susan Blackwell: And Bob Putnam tried to warn people.

[10:21] Laura Camien: Yeah. Many people took notice.

[10:23] Susan Blackwell: Susan, in this documentary, the Clintons, Pete Buttigieg, Priya Parker, they're all in this documentary.

[10:30] Laura Camien: Like his work really moved that.

[10:33] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And all of them understood the significance of this decline.

[10:39] Laura Camien: One of the most poignant stories in the documentary that he tells is um Bob talks about seeing JFK speak and his inauguration in the 1960s, and he heard him say live, you know, on stage with his own ears, he heard JFK say, Ask not what your country can do for you.

[11:04] Laura Camien: Ask what you can do for your country.

[11:06] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[11:06] Laura Camien: And this is gonna get me a little bit choked up because Bob talks about how he heard that as like, I thought he was speaking right to me. I have skills, and I need to ask myself, how can I use them to, you know, for the powers of good.

[11:22] Laura Camien: And he said that he heard it as reverie, you know, that music that's like um, oh chard. He was like, it felt to me like he's saying, We're moving forward, we're going out there to get it done, we're doing it like it's a call to a new era.

[11:40] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that's how he heard it.

[11:43] Laura Camien: And he dedicates his life to it, right? And he applies his skills in the best way he knows how, and what things he believes can help America.

[11:57] Laura Camien: And he then in this documentary is like in retrospect, what happened right after that is Martin Luther King was shot. People fought against integration and civil rights and consumerism and individualism grew, and what's in it for me grew, and you know, we continued down a really dark path to where we are today.

[12:26] Susan Blackwell: And he says, looking at it now, it wasn't reverie, it was taps.

[12:32] Laura Camien: Oh, it was you know the end of an idea. It was signaling like the decline of our country.

[12:41] Susan Blackwell: Ooh, that was it was to me like the most powerful moment in this documentary because he gets really choked up talking about it too.

[12:48] Laura Camien: Yeah, I've heard when I heard him speak, he was so filled. I don't know if he actually said this or if I thought this. It's been a minute since I heard it, but he either said or I thought he's like the person in a scary movie who's trying to warn everybody of what's coming, and nobody will listen, nobody will pay attention, and it's like attempts are futile.

[13:15] Susan Blackwell: Yes, and he really did make a splash on multiple occasions over the last 25, 30 years, and yet here we are.

[13:24] Laura Camien: Yeah. And I want to stress something because I'm going to talk about how he talks about clubs and the heyday of clubs and associations, et cetera. He isn't over romanticizing like the 1950s.

[13:42] Laura Camien: He's not advocating like we get women back in the kitchen and men back in the Elks Club. He's advocating for all kinds of gatherings because they are all useful.

[13:54] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Again, he's saying our participation in communal activities isn't just nice to have, it's the lifeblood of a healthy, functioning democracy.

[14:08] Laura Camien: So, why does community hold this power? Like how, why is it so influential?

[14:14] Laura Camien: Bob laid out all this evidence in the book, and it's all talked about in the documentary. But the evidence shows that this decline in civic engagement was making people unhappier and increasing their distrust in the government.

[14:32] Laura Camien: Put simply, the data showed that the more we withdraw from communal life, the more we fracture the very fabric that holds us together.

[14:43] Susan Blackwell: Why is that?

[14:44] Laura Camien: Here's a few reasons. One is how we treat each other is based on social agreement. As they explain it, like if you cheat someone and that someone has a social network, people are gonna hear about it.

[14:59] Laura Camien: And because I have more to lose by people hearing that I'm a cheat, I'm more likely to be honest. It will keep me honest. But it grows from there.

[15:05] Laura Camien: When you're part of a community, I'm not gonna cheat you. I'm gonna be nice to you, even if I don't know you simply because I know that you're a member of this community.

[15:16] Laura Camien: You're also a member of the same community that I'm a member of, and it produces trust.

[15:22] Susan Blackwell: And the knowing of each other, oh, Suze, it just made me think. And this documentary doesn't go, it does not go into all of the nooks and crannies of the online nature of our lives now.

[15:38] Laura Camien: Um I think there's other documentaries that do that well enough. But it makes me think about like the cruel things that people say and do online because there's no consequence.

[15:51] Laura Camien: You know, we're not a member of the same community online. Your people are never gonna know me. I might not even have my real name there, you know.

[16:00] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[16:01] Laura Camien: Um, but when you and your neighbors, you know, are meeting up for a book club or um a religious gathering, a picnic, anything, people are gonna know.

[16:14] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, and I'll and I could be ousted if I don't treat people well.

[16:21] Laura Camien: So clubs teach us how to treat each other, and in many cases, they teach us, they actually teach us how democracy works.

[16:30] Laura Camien: Voting on things as a group, speaking in front of the group, making a case for things. The skills that we need to engage in civic life are practiced and polished in communal spaces.

[16:43] Laura Camien: We learn to debate, compromise, empathize, and collaborate, not on grand stages, but within our local meetups, our hobby groups, our volunteer efforts.

[16:56] Laura Camien: And a society that lacks these touch points risks becoming polarized, mistrustful, and disengaged.

[17:05] Laura Camien: Research has shown that individuals who participate in community activities are more likely to vote, volunteer, and engage in civic duties.

[17:22] Laura Camien: And when we don't participate in these things and learn how to engage with each other, a distrust of the government can set in.

[17:31] Laura Camien: I do want to acknowledge that some of the clubs of the past did not have values that we would like to continue. I think it's good that they died out.

[17:38] Laura Camien: There's a few more, I wouldn't mind seeing die out. But many of the clubs that go back decades stood for values that we could use more of now, I think.

[17:53] Susan Blackwell: I don't know if I ever told you this, Suze, but when Wes and I had our mid-century home, which we loved so much, um, I went in search of original like mission and value statements from some of the clubs and organizations that existed in the 50s.

[18:11] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[18:12] Laura Camien: I did. And I framed them and I put them up. So I had the 4-H Club, the Optimus Club, the Rotary Club, and I found them and I framed them and they were up in the house.

[18:24] Laura Camien: I still have them, I'm sure, but I don't have the wall space right now.

[18:27] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[18:28] Laura Camien: But just to share, and I love them. Like they were meaningful to me. And I remember being young, and I wasn't a member of, I was a member of 4-H, but I wasn't a member of those like older man's clubs, obviously, but I was aware of them.

[18:43] Laura Camien: And there was a heightened sense, I guess, for me, of these values.

[18:50] Susan Blackwell: So just as an example, um, just values that were once agreed upon and upheld among groups of people.

[18:58] Laura Camien: I want to share with you the four-way test that they used in the Rotary Club.

[19:03] Susan Blackwell: This is the one that I have framed.

[19:05] Laura Camien: This Rotary Club, when they were deciding the most ethical way to act or speak, the four questions of the Rotary Club's four way test are is it the truth?

[19:19] Laura Camien: Is it fair to all concerned? Will it build goodwill and better friendships? Will it be beneficial to all concerned?

[19:31] Susan Blackwell: Huh.

[19:31] Laura Camien: And if it did not pass that four-way test, you did not speak it or proceed.

[19:39] Laura Camien: And as I read like this crap that I'm seeing people post online, I think, my God, we have fallen down a dark hole.

[19:50] Laura Camien: It does not pass the Rotary Club four-way test.

[19:53] Susan Blackwell: Does not pass it.

[19:55] Laura Camien: I mean, can you imagine what our lives how different our lives would be if we checked even with ourselves? Just check in.

[20:01] Laura Camien: Is it the truth? Will it benefit all involved? Is it fair to everybody involved?

[20:08] Laura Camien: Again, I don't love that some of these clubs began as men only, but I am inspired by the idea of some of the values that they attempted to uphold.

[20:18] Laura Camien: And without clubs and organizations with bylaws and agreed upon missions, we are missing something.

[20:26] Susan Blackwell: What's fantasizing?

[20:27] Laura Camien: Whoops. What is fascinating is to go back further in time when our country was just being established? Alexis de Coqueville, a Frenchman that came to study America in the nine in the 1830s, reported back, this is a quote wherever at the head of some new undertaking you see the government in France or a man of rank in England, in the United States, you would be sure to find an association.

[21:00] Laura Camien: Clubs and associations literally built our country.

[21:04] Susan Blackwell: So how did we get to the place where people became more individualized and less likely to be joiners?

[21:13] Laura Camien: I have an idea.

[21:14] Susan Blackwell: You do?

[21:15] Laura Camien: I've got some and I'm gonna share. And I also reflected on like when did I stop? I was in high school, I was a member of everything. I really president of everything.

[21:24] Susan Blackwell: Well, or the secretary or the vice president or something of everything.

[21:28] Laura Camien: Same, yeah, same, same thing.

[21:29] Susan Blackwell: Exactly.

[21:29] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:30] Susan Blackwell: Um, but I do know there was a time where I can I totally feel that I was like, I don't know, I'm not really a joiner. I'm I don't want to join things like that. One, I was busy with my work, real busy, and when I wasn't busy working, I was busy creating things.

[21:48] Laura Camien: No, which is a community in and of itself.

[21:50] Susan Blackwell: Which is a community, yes, yes, yes, for sure.

[21:53] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:54] Susan Blackwell: But do you want to say your theory before I...

[21:56] Laura Camien: Well, I think the introduction, the invention of the internet and social media, yeah, and people being sort of more isolated and more inclined to have their, and I am not judging, I am as guilty as anybody else.

[22:18] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[22:18] Laura Camien: Engaging in that way where it's almost like a faux sense of community.

[22:27] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[22:30] Laura Camien: Some people are absolutely certain that the problem is technology.

[22:34] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[22:35] Laura Camien: Now it goes back even further before the internet, because the decline in engagement really coincides with televisions arriving in everyone's home.

[22:47] Susan Blackwell: Another kind of technology.

[22:48] Laura Camien: Yep.

[22:49] Susan Blackwell: Exactly. So television, shining internet, social media.

[22:53] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[22:54] Susan Blackwell: So the decline began in the 60s and it continues to this day.

[22:58] Laura Camien: And as we well know, technology has only increased and only absorbed more of our time.

[23:06] Susan Blackwell: The issue could also be attributed to increased work pressures, time at work, expectations, urban sprawl, suburban growth, gaps in income, fragmentation, polarization, all of that.

[23:23] Laura Camien: One person in the documentary mentioned, they didn't expand on this too much. Again, it doesn't go super dark. Um, but one person mentioned the very real possibility that the government wanted these clubs and gatherings to lessen because they were increasing the power of the groups involved.

[23:45] Susan Blackwell: When people gather, they gain power.

[23:48] Laura Camien: So civil rights were increasing, women's rights were increasing, labor unions were increasing. They were all gaining ground, thanks in part by the strength of their organizations.

[24:03] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[24:04] Laura Camien: So whether it was intentionally discouraged or whether we got seduced into thinking that our social media connections would be enough, I don't know. We don't really know.

[24:30] Susan Blackwell: Community connection can be small. It can be intimate, it can be spontaneous, it can be the neighbor who checks on you when you're sick.

[24:39] Laura Camien: Yes.

[24:39] Susan Blackwell: It could be the book club that becomes a safe space for connection, art class where strangers bond over shared creative frustrations and creative joys. It's logging into the Zoom and seeing your spark file community of creators supporting each other. Like every bit of participation counts.

[25:02] Laura Camien: So what do we make of it, Suze?

[25:04] Susan Blackwell: The answer might lie in small deliberate acts of reconnection, starting a conversation with a neighbor.

[25:14] Laura Camien: Yes.

[25:15] Susan Blackwell: Join a class or a group that interests you or start a group.

[25:20] Laura Camien: Yes.

[25:21] Susan Blackwell: Sign up to volunteer, invite others into spaces where they can contribute and feel seen. These actions really are the threads that weave us back into a collective. They remind us that in joining, we are also choosing to live more fully.

[26:03] Laura Camien: And we want them to stay open and we want them to be able to offer clubs and associations.

[26:14] Susan Blackwell: Technology, busy schedules, the very structure of our modern lives. We do have the power to choose differently.

[26:23] Laura Camien: And I feel like this is a moment where it is essential for us to listen to Bob Putnam. Really listen to the warnings. Like we're already, we've seen what's happened. I think that we've got to recognize community is not optional. It's a cornerstone of our existence.

[26:43] Susan Blackwell: And when we engage, we don't just gain support for ourselves, we contribute to a society capable of preserving democracy and nurturing the members of our society.

[26:58] Laura Camien: In the spirit of join or die, I want to say, let's choose to join. Let's be joiners. Let's build, share, sustain the spaces that keep us alive and thriving. And remember that in community, we don't just survive, we flourish.

[27:18] Susan Blackwell: Laura, I love this. I cannot wait to watch this documentary. And it is further reminder and evidence how critical this is, what you're talking about, both to our individual well-being and health, but also to the well-being and health of our social fabric of the nation.

[27:45] Laura Camien: I think about when even the conversation we had about moral distress and the powerlessness, um, the element of powerlessness, that comes from all of us feeling like we're our own little island. We're individuals and we don't have any power to do anything, but collectively we do.

[28:05] Susan Blackwell: Margaret Mead said, never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.

[28:14] Laura Camien: Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

[28:18] Susan Blackwell: Fabulous.

[28:20] Laura Camien: Fabulous.

[28:21] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I think maybe like the most important thing we can do right now is remind ourselves that we are not alone and let other people know that they are not alone.

[28:31] Laura Camien: All right. I'll take that up.

[28:32] Susan Blackwell: Ditto. I'll take that up. I've been thinking a lot about like, all right, Cammy, and what are you gonna do?

[28:39] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:40] Susan Blackwell: We'll report in on what clubs we've joined. I feel like it's so interesting because at the outset of any season of The Spark File, there's sort of a you and I are just surprising each other with sparks.

[28:54] Laura Camien: And I feel like this season I am really seeing a trend, maybe of what's on our mind and what's, do you know what I mean?

[29:05] Susan Blackwell: I do know what you mean because I had a list of sparks that I'm like, great, I've got plenty here when it comes time to write for this season. And so much has transpired that has blown us sideways, flaming. And that we feel like we need to respond to, that's right, first for ourselves and then maybe bring it here. But that's, yeah, it's, it really is, um, it does feel like it's responsive to kind of the things that are happening around us.

[29:37] Laura Camien: The moment.

[29:38] Susan Blackwell: The moment, Laura Camien.

[29:40] Laura Camien: That was wonderful. Thank you for that.

[29:42] Susan Blackwell: And I maybe I'm gonna go watch that documentary.

[29:44] Laura Camien: Watch that documentary. It's um, it is interesting. There are plenty of places where I feel like it could go deeper, but also I could name other documentaries who've all already done that deep work. This really stays on track talking about this thing.

[30:01] Susan Blackwell: But also, if we want to go deeper, we can dive into Bob Putnam's work.

[30:05] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah, he has several books. Making Democracy Work, uh, Bowling Alone.

[30:10] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, all of it.

[30:12] Laura Camien: Yeah. Thank you for that, Laura. That's wonderful.

[30:14] Susan Blackwell: Oh, friends, that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people. And as always, we hope it put another big old bunch of sparks in your file.

[30:26] Laura Camien: Listen to me. If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email getcreative@thesparkfile.com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback.

[30:44] Susan Blackwell: Please send it in. But no, there is a price of admission. First, you've got to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[30:52] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at The Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast. It really helps other listeners to find us.

[31:01] Susan Blackwell: Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, go join a different club.

[31:10] Laura Camien: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It is your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[31:25] Susan Blackwell: You know, you gotta take it and make it and join it.

[31:32] Laura Camien: Join us.

[31:34] Susan Blackwell: When I bumped into something that inspires me.

[31:39] Laura Camien: I dump it in my spark files.

[31:43] Susan Blackwell: Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[31:49] Laura Camien: I pump it in my spark files.

[31:53] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[31:58] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.