This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: This is part one of our interview with Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez.

[0:04] Laura Camien: Recorded right before we all went into quarantine.

[0:06] Susan Blackwell: As always, the Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content.

[0:11] Laura Camien: Please use your discretion.

[0:17] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me.

[0:22] Laura Camien: I jump in in my spark file.

[0:22] Susan Blackwell: Spark files will be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:31] Laura Camien: I pump it in my spark file.

[0:34] Susan Blackwell: Spark files.

[0:35] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark style.

[0:39] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:44] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, your bouncy castle for creative inspiration. I'm Laura Camien.

[0:49] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome.

[0:52] Laura Camien: You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it?

[0:56] Susan Blackwell: These are good questions, and we've got answers. The spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:06] Laura Camien: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:13] Susan Blackwell: We're here to refill it.

[1:15] Laura Camien: Yes, we're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity, things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast.

[1:27] Susan Blackwell: Or a whole host of musicals that feature fish, princesses, poo bears, commuters, Mormons, and mariachi.

[1:35] Laura Camien: Or a collaboration that balances love, professionalism, productivity, and creativity.

[1:41] Susan Blackwell: Or a home filled with music.

[1:43] Laura Camien: Or a musical anthem that will outlive all of us.

[1:46] Susan Blackwell: On today's MakerSode, we're gonna talk with some folks who truly spark us.

[1:50] Laura Camien: And those folks are Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez. Bobby, Kristen, welcome to The Spark File.

[1:59] Bobby Lopez: Oh my god. We're so happy to be here.

[2:00] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We're so happy you're here.

[2:05] Laura Camien: But wait.

[2:07] Susan Blackwell: Wait.

[2:07] Laura Camien: But wait. The Spark File Prize of Admission, real quick, each of you have to tell us a creative risk that you have taken recently. Just something that felt like progress but not perfection.

[2:19] Susan Blackwell: Something that made you shit your pants a little bit. Just a tiny bit.

[2:23] Bobby Lopez: Well, I guess mine happened because we got a chance to collaborate with Lin-Manuel on something that's coming up. And he's, you know, he's Lin-Manuel.

[2:35] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We've been friends for a long time.

[2:38] Bobby Lopez: We've been friends, but we had to collaborate in front of each other. That's new and different.

[2:43] Laura Camien: You know, all three of us. How'd you approach that?

[2:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um, with bravery, with bravery and sunny afternoons and a sense of humor, and also permission to fail. Like permission to just be like, I might just really shift my pants.

[3:04] Susan Blackwell: Did you when were you like, uh oh, this requires bravery?

[3:09] Bobby Lopez: Um, I didn't realize it until he showed up, and then I didn't when I'm nervous with somebody I lose my words, which is a bad thing if you're a lyricist.

[3:20] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Oh, tell them about the pool.

[3:23] Bobby Lopez: About the pool. So um, so he came. We were renting this amazing house in Connecticut somewhere to try and take a look at the case.

[3:31] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Give the address.

[3:32] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, give the address. Um and it had this pool that was far away from the house, and we worked and we were sort of talking about the problem, and then we were like, you know, let's go and we'll have some lunch and we'll go in the pool.

[3:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And as we were walking over, I said I know, I know. As we're walking over, I said, I'm just gonna take a quick dump in the pool and then I'll go get the lunch.

[3:59] Bobby Lopez: I didn't let it go. I this is one of those things like, do I just do we just let that lie there like a dump in the pool? It was it was either like I'll go jump in the pool or a quick dip in the pool. But I combined the two and told him I was gonna poop in the pool and then go get him lunch.

[4:20] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And that's when I realized, um, there's something in me that feels scared too.

[4:25] Bobby Lopez: Yes, yes, to collaborate with someone who has inspired me and you know, done what he has done.

[4:34] Laura Camien: And what do you do in that moment? Like when you recognize that, oh shit, this is what's happening. What do you do to like calm yourself down or change your mindset? Do you have a process?

[4:45] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, one of the processes I did is after he left, because we didn't we didn't do too much in front of each other that day. After he left, I told Bobby, I was like, I felt like such an asshole.

[4:56] Bobby Lopez: And I lost it. And you know, there was it was a fair amount of like when you said this in front of Lin-Manuel about when you called me out for saying dump in the pool, I felt a little bit called out.

[5:11] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, and I was like, I can I can understand that and I'm sorry, and I won't do that the next time you say that.

[5:18] Bobby Lopez: Yes.

[5:19] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: But I will giggle into the case. But this is where the creative relationship and the couple marriage relationship intersects, right?

[5:27] Bobby Lopez: Right.

[5:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We have a wonderful safety most of the time. We have a great, you know, and if we aren't safe in that moment, we have a great ability to say, you know, when this thing happened, here's what I was feeling.

[5:41] Bobby Lopez: Um it's gotten much better as we've learned to use the right language so that it doesn't sound accusatory.

[5:47] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: A way of talking to one another that we learned from a professional that that is very actually very helpful. When you did X, I felt Y.

[5:58] Bobby Lopez: We knew that one already, but the one that we learned is like oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to like look at each other.

[6:04] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah. And then when the person is done talking, then the other person has to basically repeat everything that that person said.

[6:11] Bobby Lopez: Did you go to English?

[6:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: It's called conscious dialogue out of Imago therapy.

[6:16] Bobby Lopez: Yeah.

[6:16] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um then and then you say, like, did I get that right? And then they get a chance to edit basically what they intended. And so it's like all about um hearing the really hearing each other, not just waiting for your turn to talk.

[6:31] Susan Blackwell: Okay, I have my counterargument right now. I hear what you're saying, but what I want to say is she shut up here.

[6:38] Bobby Lopez: Here we go.

[6:39] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: You know, it's so funny because I actually took that modality and I started teaching it to creatives, to collaborators, to actors, so that they could calm down and actually because we hear that so much when if you ask Meryl Streep, like, what's the secret of great acting?

[6:57] Bobby Lopez: Meryl Streep acts like she hasn't been asked that question three million times, and then she says, I think it's listening, but nobody ever really teaches you how to do it, and that is the fastest way, even though sometimes it can seem like a slow way.

[7:10] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I think it's the fastest way to get to that real deep bionic sort of listening. And I love that you do it, and it makes sense to me because I see the health of your relationship.

[7:23] Bobby Lopez: We didn't always have it, like we definitely today.

[7:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I see the health of your relationship today. Evolved that um out of out of you know, constant growth and all of that.

[7:34] Bobby Lopez: Um, and just circling back to pulling Lin-Manuel into all of that.

[7:39] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, uh it was interesting, I think that first time that he came and he came to our rental house and he was so busy and um we were really nervous.

[7:52] Bobby Lopez: And then the next time we got together, it was much more casual and much more like let's let's collaborate, let's really let's have fun and let's share our experiences as writers for um you know under a lot of pressure from various people, and yeah, with mutual respect, I'm sure.

[8:10] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Like I'm sure he has similar thoughts about the two.

[8:12] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't know where it would come from because he's freaking Lin-Manuel.

[8:18] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We had it was a um it was a love fest.

[8:21] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, yeah.

[8:22] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And it's become it got safer and easier and easier to the point where I was able to like, you know, just create right in front of him and record things and make up music in front of him without feeling like I'm creating in front of Lin-Manuel.

[8:36] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, but it sounds like you to in answer to Cammy's question. It sounds like you really as soon as you could, the next available appointment that you had, you were able to like turn to each other and say, and just process it out.

[8:50] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Like, I didn't feel great when you repeated it and laughed, and everybody laughed.

[8:56] Bobby Lopez: Like, like you know, not to not be able to admit I wasn't wearing it in clothes all of a sudden at school.

[9:02] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, but it sounds like you processed it as quickly as you could, and that's what mm yeah helps you get to that place where you can be like, and now we can sit in a room together and make with Lin-Manuel and relax.

[9:13] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, yeah.

[9:14] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I think they had to tell the story to several other friends too about the time that I told Lin-Manuel I was gonna poop in the pool.

[9:20] Bobby Lopez: I mean taking a dump in the pool. That's a really good price of admission.

[9:27] Laura Camien: What you got?

[9:29] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, um, we were just in Los Angeles for the Oscars, and we for the first time um we went to this particular dinner, which we had always missed.

[9:39] Bobby Lopez: And it was this year it was gonna be all of the music nominees at one dinner and all the acting nominees as well.

[9:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: The same dinner. Everyone that could make it anyway.

[9:48] Bobby Lopez: Nice, amazing. Um, and they they made it very clear, they said, and last year Lady Gaga played there's a piano, and Lady Gaga just played the night away, and we hope that that happens too.

[10:02] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um wow, just spontaneously sing for your supper.

[10:05] Bobby Lopez: And I was so excited and so terrified.

[10:08] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And I was super terrified because you know, I don't I don't do a lot of that. I don't do a lot of playing piano in front of people, and I don't do a lot of with a brandy sniffed or tip jar on it.

[10:19] Bobby Lopez: I'm not used to being compared to Lady Gaga or Elton John or any of that.

[10:22] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I just think of you as a young Lady Gaga.

[10:24] Bobby Lopez: Go ahead, okay.

[10:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I mean, I actually were about the same age, actually.

[10:29] Bobby Lopez: You do play piano in front of our friends a lot and in front of our family, but you can't play it, but I play it all the time.

[10:35] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, but yeah, but you know, it's just not like a different stage in the moment, or how how long did you have to we knew it was coming?

[10:42] Bobby Lopez: Okay, um, we it was like two weeks, and it was really one of the reasons that we left our children a day early to get to this party because it sounded like the your dream, you know, super memory like yeah, no, it was my childhood dream, obviously.

[10:56] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I mean, it was like oh, to be in a room with stars and get to play the piano and they sing and I sing each other. It's gonna be amazing.

[11:04] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, they um so but then as soon as the reality sets in, I have like a week to worry about it, and um and just and just feel like how did that live in you for that week?

[11:13] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: It was just dread.

[11:14] Bobby Lopez: It just felt like dread.

[11:16] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Oh like like always. You weren't like going through fake books and being like, oh, I can't get my shit together.

[11:21] Bobby Lopez: Really? I did a little I mean I tried to I was like uh I tried to learn some some of everybody's music just in case that came up.

[11:28] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And as it turned out, uh we didn't play our own stuff at all.

[11:32] Bobby Lopez: I played, I ended up all the young'uns would play all of the the you know the their heroes stuff.

[11:38] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Right.

[11:39] Bobby Lopez: Um so you know, we didn't we I played Tiny Dancer.

[11:42] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Uh-huh.

[11:43] Bobby Lopez: As Elton John was leaving, because he left a little early.

[11:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[11:48] Bobby Lopez: Um, wait, how was it actually when you were living it?

[11:52] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And well, it was it was more drunken, so I was like, self-medication.

[11:57] Bobby Lopez: There were a lot of drinks liquid.

[11:59] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I was gonna ask, how does the dread turn? Like, when does that turn for you before right before, or you in the middle of doing it, you suddenly realize that hey, I think I'm having fun.

[12:10] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, I think there's a little bit of you know, just any perfor like you guys perform, you know what how how it is a little bit, and it was a and you know, there was a little bit of like, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die.

[12:23] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That sort of thing.

[12:24] Bobby Lopez: Uh but then at that moment, you use that that energy to walk over to the piano confidently and just wrong.

[12:30] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: So and they you know, I think he played all night.

[12:33] Bobby Lopez: Oh they were they were grateful that someone was there that that could play.

[12:37] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, tell them you're Quincy Jones.

[12:39] Bobby Lopez: So Quincy Jones was there. Quincy Jones walked in, and I had just read an article where Quincy Jones said Paul McCartney was a shitty bass player. And I was like, oh no. Oh god. Judgy. By the way, all of this was going on. Um, and Bobby was not communicating any of that to me.

[12:59] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Right. Did you tell me? The week before he had said, like, I'm a little nervous about playing the piano in front of like Elton John, and we knew we were gonna be with our fellow nominees, and so it's Elton John, it was Randy Newman. Jesus Christ, and but I was like, Cindy Arriva will be there, and she'll sing fine fine line.

[13:15] Bobby Lopez: But she ended up um, which is a song that got her into the Royal Academy of the Bible.

[13:21] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: You're kidding.

[13:21] Bobby Lopez: Uh she sang that song to get into graduate school. And so I was like, You can hold on to that. Let's just focus on that.

[13:28] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, that was my life raft, but then she wasn't there.

[13:31] Bobby Lopez: Oh no, no. Um, but and st and and in walks Quincy Jones and my heart skips a beat because I've he's he's a legend of music, like a shit.

[13:43] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Oh yeah, yeah.

[13:44] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, and he's like, and he's not afraid to hold to just say, You suck, man, like shitty. Suck so man. But but Joaquin Phoenix was also messing with Bobby at the time. Joaquin Phoenix was was jokering around with him too.

[13:56] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Of course, yeah, he was like, There was this nice person from the academy who said, Can I get you got can I get you a drink? And I was like, Oh, that's very nice of you. Yes, I would like a scotch on the rocks, please. And then she walked over to the bar and Joaquin said, Man, she's not your assistant, that's not cool.

[14:16] Bobby Lopez: And then he was like, I'm fucking with you. And then she came back and delivered the drink and smiled and walked away. And he was like, You weren't gonna like tip her two dollars, man? Like, it's not cool. Like just two dollars. She's a big thing. Walking Phoenix is pulling a hole. Hollywood is Joker thing on him. Tough room, tough room. Bobby's like Quincy Jones, Quincy Jones, he doesn't like pomics.

[14:40] Bobby Lopez: So I walked over to Quincy Jones and I was like, This is a really impressive room, but as soon as you walked in, that's when I lost it. Sorry, like you're amazing. My name's Bobby Lopez. He's like, I know who you are, I know what's going on. Um so super warm.

[14:55] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, yeah.

[14:56] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, and no, and then I and then Kristen walked over and and um and she's like, I'm his wife. And Quincy Jones says, I know, he was just bragging on you. And um and then he winked at me. I thought, oh, that's so nice. What was he saying? I was like, this guy is awesome. I love Quincy Jones. Wow and and you know, the post note to that is that Quincy Jones told somebody, like, that kid's a good piano player.

[15:25] Bobby Lopez: So hey Yeah, he he he came up to me, gave me a fist bump, he was like, You're good. Did you did you sleep like an angel?

[15:33] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, that was good.

[15:34] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, but then and then uh as I was playing, Margot Robbie came and sat down next to me on the piano bench.

[15:39] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Oh my god, and said, Will you play me something?

[15:42] Bobby Lopez: And so he played She's always a woman to me. And then I saw what was going on, and she was like sitting next to him, and um I was like, Oh, she takes care of some big Elmer full musical theater. Amazing, amazing.

[16:00] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I think we are officially admitted into the Spark room.

[16:03] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, I think you're in good risks.

[16:06] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um thank you for inviting us to your office slash musictorium.

[16:10] Bobby Lopez: Thank you. It's just us talking now, but um, this aside, is there ever not music going on in your home in your life and you're it seems like in your head, in your head when Kristen says please be quiet, um, then I stop.

[16:26] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, he does so. I have a lot of music in my head, and I have a lot of like sometimes I'll I'll get caught, and I do think there's a little bit of an OCD thing that happens on certain phrases that just happen around and around. And then when I finally get it quiet, if Bobby like gets on the piano and starts playing Billy Joel or something, opens a can of earworms, yeah.

[16:48] Bobby Lopez: Yes, yes, um, but then I I take a second and I I like to remind myself like what if the day comes and he's not there to play the piano, so you better appreciate it. But but coronavirus is making me think a lot about uh I was gonna ask if you are when you're when you have an earworm and you're perseverating on that.

[17:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um New York is coming for us, everybody.

[17:14] Bobby Lopez: Um, is that problems that you're trying to solve musically, or is it like a Billy Joel song that's stuck in your head?

[17:21] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um, when we're writing a song, it's definitely I'm solving it. I notice when we're writing these songs, I will go home with it and dream it all night long, and all throughout my dream, I will be completely working on it. I'll even be writing lyrics to it, and I'll wake up in the morning and it'll like go.

[17:40] Bobby Lopez: Um, that definitely happens, and so whenever people come up to us and like, you and your earworms, I've been hearing remember me in my head for three months. And I'm like, I was there first.

[17:52] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That's right. I didn't. No, no pities. Try writing, yeah.

[17:57] Bobby Lopez: What strikes me about that is is you know, uh, with all the people that we talk to, we find these sort of like recurring themes. And one of them seems to be like really prolific creative people trust their brain. Meaning, like, I'm not necessarily working on this right now, but I trust that my brain is.

[18:17] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: So whether I'm sleeping or meditating or doing a puzzle or whatnot, like just let my brain do it. It's gonna solve it.

[18:24] Bobby Lopez: I really love hearing you talk about it that way because you seem to have a real like healthy relationship with your brain.

[18:30] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: You know, I'm sorry that you didn't I didn't get this done in time. But what I really wanted to have on the wall here was a sign that says, do not bang head on wall.

[18:41] Bobby Lopez: Don't do it. There's things happening in there, you might disrupt it.

[18:44] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, I mean, like, that's right. If you get a problem and you're really stuck on it, the better thing to do than just keep trying and getting getting angry and getting upset is just to walk away and let your brain figure it out for you.

[18:57] Bobby Lopez: I find the shower uh the shower and the bathroom. Um I call them epiphanies.

[19:04] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um when you're when you're just you're just like, I can't, I can't do this. I'm going to the bathroom, and then you're sitting on the toilet and you're like, ah, I got it.

[19:16] Bobby Lopez: So good.

[19:17] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: So good. Um, before we get too far down this road, we do have this question for people, you know, who maybe for the woodworkers. I'm talking to you woodworkers out there.

[19:27] Bobby Lopez: So for the woodworkers, here's a two-parter. Creatively speaking, when people ask, what do you do? How do you answer that?

[19:34] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And part two, what are the things that you're most well known for? And please don't be shy, because we will name them if you don't.

[19:42] Bobby Lopez: We usually say, I usually say, you know, I'm a songwriter.

[19:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um I felt compelled to say what I used to say and now what I do say.

[19:51] Bobby Lopez: Oh, good, good.

[19:52] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Because um, first in my twenties, there was always that problem of when I was a performer of feeling like you couldn't say, I'm an actress, especially if you were spending the bulk of your time temping.

[20:04] Bobby Lopez: So that was always the hard part.

[20:06] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah. And then when I transitioned from performer to writer, that got even more confusing.

[20:12] Bobby Lopez: And it got like I found myself saying, like, well, you know, I work with schizophrenic patients during the day, but I am learning to write musicals at night.

[20:23] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And that's what I want to do.

[20:25] Bobby Lopez: Um, and wow, you know, I now I'm very lucky that things have worked out in a way that I'm able to do it.

[20:32] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: So I'm I'm allowed to say, like, I'm a songwriter.

[20:36] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, legit.

[20:37] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And but even now I still like we do so much story. We do so much uh like executive producing and song producing but and huge amounts of dramaturgy.

[20:49] Bobby Lopez: Saying you're a songwriter doesn't feel like it covers.

[20:52] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: It's not a big container.

[20:54] Bobby Lopez: Yeah. Can can you we just hop back?

[20:57] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I'm gonna jump.

[20:58] Bobby Lopez: Um you were a performer. I you came to New York to be an actress, and then you made a transition.

[21:06] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: You changed a choice. Can you talk a little bit about changing that choice?

[21:10] Bobby Lopez: It sounds like it took some time and you had to figure out the language and that evolved as you figured it out.

[21:16] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: But talk a little bit about changing your choice.

[21:19] Bobby Lopez: I'm gonna give you the 30 second pitch of something that I've done as like a 20 minute talk. But the the thing is I started um in that follow your bliss way when I was like six years old loved theater love story and I would make up musicals in my backyard and direct them and cast them and design them and star them and for good shows.

[21:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Claudine and Matthew Thomas and Alexandra you weren't bossy were I had leadership skills and uh and the message I got out of that out of all of that was you're an actress.

[22:04] Bobby Lopez: You like musical theater you must be an actress and nobody thought oh she's a director or she's a writer or a songwriter or a composer.

[22:14] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And I think I swallowed that message in a big way so much so that when a fortune teller looked at my hand or no it was like a hand reading manual with my friends and they were like your hand is a writer I cried and I was like this book is wrong.

[22:31] Bobby Lopez: Um because I mean those books are wrong sorry and cut to you know did did well in high school got into Williams College, got got the BA degree um in theater and psychology, but it didn't prepare me to be an actress and to audition for like nonsense.

[22:55] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Right.

[22:56] Bobby Lopez: Um, I had to figure that out myself.

[22:59] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um, and played a lot of nuns in New Hampshire for my 20s.

[23:03] Bobby Lopez: Um, but I I was temping most of the time to be able to afford to play those nuns in New Hampshire.

[23:09] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Which nun?

[23:12] Bobby Lopez: Uh I was I was the one for Brooklyn.

[23:14] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um I think I played that nun. Sorry, go ahead.

[23:17] Bobby Lopez: Um, and then I was also Maria.

[23:20] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And then I was also nun, like I played a lot of the nuns.

[23:23] Bobby Lopez: I did all the nuns.

[23:25] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um Robert Ann, Sister Robert.

[23:27] Bobby Lopez: Sister Robert Ann, that's right.

[23:28] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um anyway, cut to uh things are just I'm getting I'm turning 27, which I think is a really key moment for everybody.

[23:38] Bobby Lopez: There's some sort of number 27.

[23:41] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That's right. That you go on the handwriting and the numerology and all of it.

[23:46] Bobby Lopez: Yeah.

[23:47] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: But I noticed like that's when many of us take stock of it's maybe it's the five-year plan has not worked out for out of college.

[23:55] Bobby Lopez: And I I thought this isn't working.

[23:58] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um that ain't it, kid.

[23:59] Bobby Lopez: That ain't it.

[24:01] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That ain't it, kid.

[24:02] Bobby Lopez: Sorry.

[24:05] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Uh tried a lot of things, worked for schizophrenic patients, did a did a lot of different things for real.

[24:09] Bobby Lopez: Oh, I thought you were just talking about actors.

[24:11] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: No.

[24:11] Bobby Lopez: You met actual schizophrenic.

[24:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I was actually working at the Bronx VA hospital.

[24:14] Bobby Lopez: Um, this is going long. I'm gonna try and cut to the short one thing.

[24:18] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um I was I ended up saying, well, gosh, working it with schizophrenic patients is just as hard as playing nuns in New Hampshire.

[24:26] Bobby Lopez: Right.

[24:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And uh like it feels just as not quite right.

[24:30] Bobby Lopez: Went back to the show.

[24:31] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I wonder if you're the only person with that perspective.

[24:36] Bobby Lopez: Does that feel just right for I mean, there's some people that like it, yeah.

[24:42] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, for sure.

[24:43] Bobby Lopez: Psychiatry is really their calling.

[24:45] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[24:46] Bobby Lopez: Um, for me, I I just was missing the creative side of things.

[24:50] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[24:51] Bobby Lopez: Uh did a little cabaret where I rewrote some Sondheim lyrics, and someone who had been through the BMI workshop, I rewrote opening doors um from Merrily We Roll Along to be our opening of this show called Opening Doors.

[25:06] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And someone said, You're a lyricist.

[25:08] Bobby Lopez: And I and I realized I had been rewriting lyrics and doing like forbidden Broadway things in all of my shows.

[25:16] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And then I was in Urinetown. Um, also I was temping during the day, but I was in the original Urinetown. And Mark Holman had been through the BMI workshop, and also was like, "You're a lyricist." I applied to BMI. Wow. Um, and it was I wrote my first show, my first song and performed it. And that was when it was truly like that magical, the skies opened. I was like, this is the thing. I don't know that it was the greatest song. I could tell you it wasn't, but I could tell you that feeling that connection, feeling the audience laugh at what I did and knowing that like this was performing and knowing the human voice and knowing story, all happening. And then the crazy thing is I met this guy two weeks later. Like, so I found being my workshop was like one stop shopping for my purpose and my soulmate. So ladies, that's not a best advertisement for BMI.

[26:21] Susan Blackwell: Am I my god? Damn, I love hearing that story because what we talk with so many people that I think they lock into a choice at a young age, and then they just are so tormented by the idea of changing their choice, and it's like no, like you can change your choice. It is hard, and there is grief, and but I think there's also a lot of sorting through. I say this to especially female audiences and female artists all the time. We still have this message that if you're a woman in musical theater, that you're an actress. We don't see all of the different ways you can love and be a part of this life of stories and music, um, and not have to go through the crazy stuff that the actresses go through.

[27:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah. Um, and that it's okay to go back to where you fell in love, like trace your steps back to that moment that you were like, I love this. And it might have been a cast album, it might have been a, you know, a play you did when you're in second grade that you wrote about the dwarves, yeah. Um, whites, dwarves or whatever dwarfs, or any dwarfs, yes. Um, you know, that might lead you to where you actually want to. I love that's right. I love that. It's okay to change your choice, everybody.

[27:46] Bobby Lopez: It is and part two, what are the things that you're most well known for?

[27:49] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, Bobby. I think you should take that. I've been talking a lot. Take it, Bobby.

[27:51] Bobby Lopez: Well, I did want to say I did want to say one thing that came to mind was when you were talking about changing your choice, which was that that also applies on the micro level all the time of when you're collaborating. When you're, you know, because for me, I so often had that like I had this idea for this song or with this whatever this moment, and I have to stay to this true north, and it's stopping me. I'm something's not quite right, but I'm not I don't care. I'm just gonna make it work. And so many, so much the answer so often is relax about that and try something else, or listen to your collaborator, or just become an audience member and just forget that true north for a moment and say, like, where would I put true north now if I had to change? If I was in the audience, what would I want to see?

[28:41] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, right. If I wanted to, yeah, if I wanted this to be good, what would I do? Yeah, sometimes you do have to do that um and just put yourself in the audience. And I just feel like I'm starting to learn that lesson like now. I really I've been so often like been the let's stick, let's stay on target, everybody. You can be like a dog with a bone, and sometimes I love that, and sometimes I'm like down, down does release it. Um I and just one more thing that I think about uh you're allowed to change your choice. I think so much of it also has to do with feeling like you're letting down teachers and parents and the narrative and the narrative like school debt that to pay for that choice, right? Things like that. Maybe you made a declaration at some point, this is what I'm gonna do, and then it's all like embarrassing, or you carry with it, you know, uh perceived.

[29:39] Bobby Lopez: Uh but I would also say it like if you did were the leads in your high school musical, so much codifying comes with that that everyone's like, you're going to Broadway. Um, but no one says like you're going to Broadway as the writer.

[29:54] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That's right. That's right.

[29:56] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, so often when you say this to young people, they're like, nah, you mean I'm not good enough to be an actress. Nobody wants to hear it because I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with what's sexy too to the partners uh that you are seeking at age 16.

[30:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That's right.

[30:13] Bobby Lopez: Um, because and I I've talked about this before too. Bobby at age 16, if he sat down and started to play Billy Joel, a bunch of girls would come over and be like, Oh my god, Margot. Margot Varga, Margaret. It still happens. If a girl sits down and starts playing the piano, it's a it's not like the football players come over and they're like, I love the interval rules. Whoa, that's so cool.

[30:42] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Right.

[30:43] Bobby Lopez: Like there is some real gender things around this.

[30:50] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um, and you're lucky if you get, you know, the clarinetist saying, like, oh, I really love that.

[30:55] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, I think it is changing. I see my daughter, um, my daughter just wrote a song and put it on TikTok. Yes, um, on her ukulele, and I it's it was I was so proud of her, and she got all this like and love from it. Yes, instant. Um, I mean, that has its own problems, of course. Right, but I think that TikTok universe is making it safer for girls to find their maker voice and not just have to be Marianne in the high school musical of music band.

[31:25] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: That's right, and better to be getting likes for having written a song or done something creative than all the other ways that kids are getting likes online, you know.

[31:35] Bobby Lopez: That's pretty impressive. But I think that is creating some of the gender inequality around songwriting happens really early in that adolescent space because of will it attract a partner or not.

[31:48] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yes, yes.

[31:50] Bobby Lopez: Isn't that the overriding question we get taught as women from day one? Will this or will this not lead to a ring on my finger? You know, and it's so there's so much of that that's just sewn into the way people talk to young ladies.

[32:06] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I also think maybe I I could I yes to all of this, but also I was thinking, I don't know as a young person, like as a like say you in your backyard, like making the show run, if you could necessarily conceptualize what a songwriter does in the way that you know what an actor does. There's so many, you know, picture books and examples of what a uh actor does, but it's a little more sophisticated.

[32:32] Bobby Lopez: Well, that's why I try to be really vocal about it. Because to me, what a songwriter did was like in those cast albums, they were records then. It was just like angry men around a piano smoking, like pictures of pictures of men who looked really upset.

[32:48] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yes.

[32:48] Bobby Lopez: Um that's what a songwriter was.

[32:51] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, black and white in black and white pictures.

[32:54] Bobby Lopez: And and now I try to I try to be out there as much as I can as like this is fun. Look, I'm wearing a shiny green dress and I'm sitting behind Parasite.

[33:05] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yes.

[33:06] Bobby Lopez: Oh my god, yes, yes.

[33:08] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Which is what I that's a I was just at the Oscars in a very shiny green dress.

[33:12] Bobby Lopez: Yes.

[33:13] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Being all fancy, yeah. For songwriting. We just did a spark about um Hedy Lamar and the filmmaker who did this great documentary called Bombshell about Hedy Lamar, who, in addition to being a beautiful, physically beautiful movie star, was also an amazing scientist. The reason why she wanted to, the filmmaker wanted to make the movie is because she was like, when you say scientist, you picture uh usually a white guy with a pocket protector, da-da-da-da-da. And she was like, That can't be it, kid.

[33:44] Bobby Lopez: And it's what you're saying, too. You want to create a new model. This is what a songwriter looks like.

[33:50] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Right. And I do think there's a lot of uh momentum behind this with Georgia Stitt founding Mice Job, this new organization, and um Janine Tesori and Lisa Crohn, and um oh, there's Amanda Green, like there Lynn Ahrens um like there's a lot more models of how you can be a songwriter and not be an angry white guy smoking a cigarette from the 1960s.

[34:20] Bobby Lopez: Some of those guys are my heroes.

[34:22] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: It can look so many more ways.

[34:24] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, and it can look more ways, and it can look more ways.

[34:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, so what have you written?

[34:28] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, we gotta get back to this question.

[34:31] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And then I want to add to that, and then I want to hear your origin story as well, your creative journey.

[34:38] Bobby Lopez: Um, well, Avenue Q is my first big show.

[34:41] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, heard of that in Broadway.

[34:43] Bobby Lopez: Uh-huh. And then um then uh Finding Nemo the musical.

[34:46] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: A lot of people that's their favorite show of ours in uh Disney World.

[34:50] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, it runs like five to six times a day, 365 days a year. A little fishy, and then Book of Mormon.

[34:55] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Book of Mormon.

[34:59] Bobby Lopez: Um and uh then um uh well we did yeah, Winnie the Pooh, nobody knows that one. Winnie the Pooh came out the last the same day as the final Harry Potter. I think it was like July 11th, uh 2011. Um so that was like three people saw it, but it was a sweet one.

[35:18] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[35:18] Bobby Lopez: Um Frozen.

[35:21] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, you're right.

[35:21] Bobby Lopez: And I had In Transit, which was like an a cappella of the Broadway movie. That was a hard one. Um then we had Up Here after Frozen in the movie.

[35:28] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We had Up Here in La Jolla.

[35:34] Bobby Lopez: Closed out of town.

[35:35] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: On the closed out of town, and then we were really busy doing Frozen Broadway while also writing Frozen 2.

[35:43] Bobby Lopez: Yes.

[35:43] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Um pretty much brings and Coco.

[35:48] Bobby Lopez: Which was a bigger project for us. We ended up with just one song in it in a bunch of different reprises.

[35:54] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Great song.

[35:55] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, great fucking song.

[35:58] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Do that one.

[35:59] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, it's fine. It was a beautiful movie. And we worked a lot on the story um for Coco. Like we were involved in the beautiful storytelling.

[36:08] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I mean, it's an incredible.

[36:10] Bobby Lopez: Well, we just love that.

[36:12] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I just gonna say, ooh, ooh.

[36:16] Bobby Lopez: I didn't want to, I didn't want to interrupt that.

[36:18] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Do you have any other syllables for those?

[36:20] Bobby Lopez: Ooh, I do. The wonderful thing about working for Pixar and Disney is that um you as a songwriter, you get to sit in and be part of the brain trust on um, which is an incredible experience.

[36:34] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Is that unique?

[36:35] Bobby Lopez: That's storytelling. I feel like that storytelling from those studios is extraordinary.

[36:41] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And it's the thing that elevates those movies to be sort of just like several cuts above the storytelling, the way that those stories are honed.

[36:51] Bobby Lopez: I don't I but is that part of why maybe? Because it seems they're inclusive of the whole creative team?

[36:57] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, it's a brutal, brutal process, but in that brutality, uh you you we find pleasure. I mean always it's it's you're getting you're getting the forces of of the like your most critical audience early stages.

[37:17] Bobby Lopez: Yes.

[37:17] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And over and over again in an iterative way. So I mean, just watching it from as songwriters and and being part of it for the last decade now, it was like grad school, better than anything we could have experienced in grad school.

[37:33] Bobby Lopez: It seems a depth story and arc and character and and process.

[37:39] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[37:40] Bobby Lopez: And trusting the process.

[37:43] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, it's just so devastating.

[37:44] Bobby Lopez: Every time you put this movie together, it's been a huge push.

[37:59] Bobby Lopez: Executing the storyboards. And then of course, you know, there's a little wiggle room here and there, but basically you get these three weeks, and then they have to board it all, and then after three months has passed, you put it up again, and it's another devastating, um, you know, terrible day. The metaphor I like to use is you build a giant Lego city in like an acre-long gymnasium, and then every three months someone comes and smashes your Lego city, and then you take whatever buildings are left standing, and then you start building a new Lego city, and you do this seven to eight times, and hopefully by the end, you've got a beautiful Lego city, or so that's literally years for one of these.

That's that process that's sort of the screening process, which is that iterative every three to four months, is about three and a half years. But before that, you've got two to three years of development where you're researching and you're like we started Frozen 2 in 2015. Wow. Um, and that was on a fast track. Like a lot of these movies that come out. I think it's why the st I I must be painful. And it must be a lot of things to have the Lego City sort of broken down and have to rebuild it and have it broken down and have to be and have it rebuilt. But those stories are structured so beautifully, like that that's what you get. That's what you get.

[39:32] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, exactly. And and one of the nice things is like the um as much as as cool as these storyboard artists are, and as talented as they are in envisioning a movie and executing it in this kind of rough way, it's not acting, like you can't see the acting on the screen. So they I guess the idea is if you still feel the story in this terrible, um, you know, inadequate medium, yeah. Then once it's animated, it'll only work better. And that those animators, you start to, I mean, this time around, was kind of like this is our last one, probably. And we really, really saw the immense magic created by the animators. It wow continues to just baffle us how how amazing these people are. It I mean, it's true.

Now we have, I think the first time around with Frozen, we were um uh so busy being worried about our own stuff and like deer in the headlights that we didn't fully acknowledge how every step of the way the animators and what each each level of artist at Disney adds each time you get the storyboards and then you get the backgrounds, and then you get the animators animating like every little eyebrow twitch and the facial expression, and then you get the dress and you get the hair, and then you get the lighting, and the voice artists like the right. Oh, them too. The whole thing, the what's really cool about Disney is like it's a building when it's going right, it's a building full of passionate artists who are all fired up, excited, and working together. Like it's amazing, it's really amazing.

[41:11] Bobby Lopez: Right. And and I mean, the uh I I only just at this at this Oscar party got a chance to talk to the casting director who put together Josh and Kristen and Adina and John. Wow. Who is that person? Her name is Jamie, Jamie. Um Jamie Spearer Roberts. Yes, yes, nice. Um brain at work there. And I, you know, it was the first time that I got to really go, hey, human being who made my life better. Thank you for bringing these four incredible people because I do think that Josh and Kristen and Nadina and Jonathan and the the way that they work as as the toolbox of incredible talent that we get to use there, and they're so different. Yeah, and they're so much like their characters, or their characters have grown to be so much like them.

[42:10] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah. How early in the process? I'm sorry, Bobby. How early in the process do you know, like for the first time around when were they cast so that you like voices you were working with?

[42:21] Bobby Lopez: We didn't know at first. Well Kristen and Edina were there for the first table read we ever saw. Right. And they sang, they wheeled in this piano like a keyboard, and Bobby and I were like, what's happening? We didn't write a song for it. And they sang You Are the Wind Beneath My Wings. Well in harmony after the table read um just to hear their voices. I guess it was sort of as a as a way to pitch it. Yeah. But they hadn't they hadn't told no one had told us that was happening we were suddenly anyway that continues to be there's a little preview of the songs you're going to write for us. Awesome.

[43:07] Laura Camien: Bobby I don't think we actually got your origin story out of you. Did you always know? Like we did were you clear headed this is what I'm gonna do.

[43:11] Bobby Lopez: Yeah tell them your Tevia story.

[43:17] Bobby Lopez: Oh well that that I that comes later I think because I started writing I I was um my parents were both I don't know I think they were sort of frustrated artists themselves. My dad was a writer and I guess I felt like uh there was some element of him that wished that he had had that job and um that they always really wanted me to to have that opportunity and will you say what type of writer was he? He he was he wrote um, you know he journalism and short stories and stuff like that. And what specific job did he wish maybe that he might have had, like as a musician? No, I think he wanted to, I wouldn't think he wanted to write stories, but he was he ended up in PR and um and stuff like that, marketing.

[44:02] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[44:02] Bobby Lopez: Um but so I there was nobody musical in my family, but my for some reason my mother um was really excited that I might be musical. She wanted me to be. She willed it into you. And um, so there was one story where I I told them that I wanted a guitar, and they were like, they were excited to hear that. I was four years old, and they said, We're gonna get you a good guitar. And I was like, no, I I just want the plastic one, the Mickey Mouse guitar from the drugstore. Um a little needy with his toys.

[44:40] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: He loves toys.

[44:41] Bobby Lopez: I just want toy because I do love toys. There are uh many of his toys are not here anymore because we had to clear them out, and they're in a sort of a special toy room toy vault. Like it led them to the toy car.

[44:58] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah, they're going to play with the others.

[45:01] Bobby Lopez: Um, so then um, so then we we moved, our family moved to Massachusetts and then moved very suddenly back to New York City, uh, because it Massachusetts didn't work out. And we moved into a sublet which had an upright piano.

[45:18] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: And uh wow.

[45:19] Bobby Lopez: And so they they said you should really take piano lessons, and I was really excited to see this thing. And um, and that's when it that's when it started. And I had this amazing teacher who for a six-year old um assigned me, started signing me like right away every week to go home and write uh four bars of a piece.

[45:40] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: You're kidding.

[45:41] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, wow. Um I've never given it. It was crazy. It was it was a huge gift. I mean, just the I remember thinking like that, you're you're, you know, you're fucking with us. Like that's that's not something that I can't like mean write it on the page.

[45:54] Laura Camien: Where did you go to school? Did you go to piano lessons in the village?

[46:02] Bobby Lopez: Yes.

[46:02] Laura Camien: Where?

[46:03] Bobby Lopez: The Greenwich House Music School.

[46:04] Laura Camien: So I used to live down there, and every time I would walk down the street, you would hear piano music floating out of the windows.

[46:13] Bobby Lopez: It was always delightful, and it always made me think of you. Because I think I had heard that you went there. And so every time I pass by there and there's music floating out, I always think of you.

[46:24] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: I have another question, sort of a follow-up, even though you probably haven't told us your entire story, your entire origin story, but did you sometimes I just think it's easy to from the outside look at someone who had certainty at an early age, followed by success, and just wonder like, did you have any doubt in there? Were there nights, dark nights of the soul, where you questioned? You just like I don't know my Lessons. Did you have those? I want to hear about those. What did how does that live for you?

[46:56] Bobby Lopez: Well, I had I had um, you know, in my early adolescence, really come to the realization I wanted to write musicals. Um, because I got I got into Sondheim, yeah, and I was able to write all, you know, I was in a um drama group that had an original show every messenger, and I think I wrote them. So um and so by the time I was um in college, I was pretty burned out already because I would have been writing all these.

[47:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Just a cigarette danger.

[47:29] Bobby Lopez: He did wear a lot of black turtlenecks. And you start. It was a like his he was very alienated. Like all these pictures sort of showed him just being like a duck. It didn't actually smoke. I mean the podcast. Can't see everybody's gesture, but um, no.

[47:48] Bobby Lopez: I um anyway. But you were kind of burnt out in college. I felt that way because you know, when you start out and you're this kid with an aptitude, it's very cute and it's really impressive, and you get a lot out of it.

[48:00] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[48:01] Bobby Lopez: Um, and then as you get older and older, not so cute. It gets less cute, it gets less impressive, especially if you're have no money in sight.

[48:08] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah.

[48:09] Bobby Lopez: There's no there's no um and I was I really didn't have any kind of plan or any shows that anybody wanted to do. Interesting. So for me, it was um a lot of doubt, and and I there was a moment I joined the BMI workshop um and Alan Mencking came and did a um master class.

[48:28] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Did a masterclass and I did a couple of songs from this project that I was doing, and he just I don't know, it's the the mood wasn't right, it didn't spark, and he kind of laid into them the way you do when you're a master class, you know, and you have to be the master up there, you gotta you gotta entertain the crowd.

[48:44] Bobby Lopez: Yeah, nobody brings a master in to just be like Amazing! Oh my god, that is what you were hoping for. That's what everyone's hoping for, and that's what nobody gets out of a master class. Anyway, so that was my moment of like should I I can't even I can't do this. I'm not good. I'm I threw that project away. And that's when I started collaborating. Um, you know, in fact, it is kind of like a story of giving up. But that's I think that is the the key lesson is like when you are stuck, give up, let yourself off the hook, and then let your creativity come out.

[49:19] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yes.

[49:20] Bobby Lopez: That's interesting. I mean, like that's I feel like that's what really the essence of what we've been talking about from the start of this conversation. Don't bang your head on the wall.

[49:27] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Don't bang your head against walls.

[49:29] Bobby Lopez: Don't if we're gonna talk about like taking a dump in the pool.

[49:37] Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Don't push too hard.

[49:39] Bobby Lopez: Just let it come out naturally. When I bumped into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark fire. Spark could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in the spark fire. Spark. I jump into my spark flies. Spark. Let's open up the spark fire.

[50:16] Laura Camien: That was part one of our interview with Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez. Part two will be available next week, unless it's the future, then it's available now. So go on, give it a listen, and find out what's sparking Bobby and Kristen these days.