This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: The SparkFile Podcast may contain profanity and other adult content.

[0:04] Laura Camien: Please use your discretion.

[0:09] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in in my spark file.

[0:17] Laura Camien: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my sparks.

[0:26] Laura Camien: Spark.

[0:28] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my sparks live.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:46] Laura Camien: If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[0:54] Susan Blackwell: Hey, hey, hey, where do I get one? What do I file in it?

[1:00] Laura Camien: These are such good questions, friends, and we actually do have answers. We're so full of questions today.

[1:03] Susan Blackwell: I know. A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations. And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:22] Laura Camien: We're here to refill it.

[1:24] Susan Blackwell: We are. We are on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this very podcast.

[1:38] Laura Camien: Or a nonprofit organization working to end harassment in all its forms.

[1:46] Susan Blackwell: Or a program to teach folks how to safely intervene in the presence of xenophobic harassment, online harassment, LGBTQ plus harassment, all the harassments, baby.

[1:57] Laura Camien: Or a science-based curriculum that provides concrete tools to help people better manage and make sense of pain and trauma in this moment.

[2:08] Susan Blackwell: On today's makersode, we're gonna talk to someone who truly sparks us about something that truly sparks us. And that's someone, and that something is Dax Valdes of Hollaback.

[2:21] Laura Camien: Dax, welcome to the Spark File.

[2:26] Dax Valdes: Hi, Dax.

[2:29] Dax Valdes: Thank you for having me. It's so good to connect in this space.

[2:33] Susan Blackwell: I know. We're so happy to hear your voice and to see your face through the magic of technology.

[2:39] Laura Camien: We're so fucking thrilled that you're joining us today. But we're gonna start with the basics.

[2:44] Susan Blackwell: We always start with the basics. Where are you right now and how are you right now?

[2:51] Dax Valdes: But for reals. I'm up in Washington Heights.

[3:01] Dax Valdes: Yes. Nice. Um, I am I'm good. I'm good. And then I will say, like on a scale of one to ten, I usually average like a nine. But it's pretty good. The weld is the weld is a little low right now. So I would say like six and three-quarter stars, all the Ed McMahon from Star Search.

[3:21] Laura Camien: But Ed McMahon!

[3:25] Susan Blackwell: We just like narrowed, narrowed this. Six or three quarters.

[3:29] Dax Valdes: Oh, I love it. We know that life life right now, both globally and individually, can be complicated. But we are happy that you're here. And it will be interesting to see during the course of your time in the Spark File virtual space. If we can get those numbers up, who knows?

[3:47] Laura Camien: We can't make any promises.

[3:49] Dax Valdes: We cannot make you any promises. I would say, you know, it's like the the gas gate, the gas gauge is filling up slowly. It is, I'm happy to be here and speaking with you both.

[3:59] Susan Blackwell: We'll keep checking in on those numbers.

[4:01] Laura Camien: Yeah. We will report back. Before we go any further, with those numbers or anything else, we do have a request. The Spark File price of admission. Can you tell us a creative risk that you have taken recently?

[4:21] Dax Valdes: Yeah. So in December, I was part of my friend Sarah Bryan's and her creative partner Charlotte Gooden. They launched what they call the Collectus Momentum Pod. So they have a group for artists flying solo to be accountable for the work. So setting the intention for and meeting weekly meetings for this pod, and then you have a project or an idea that you want to bring, you submit for feedback, you go back and iterate. And it was a couple of sessions. What I got out of it was the idea for a podcast, actually. And then I had my whole season lined up and then work really took over. So that is currently on the back burner. So I was going to be interviewing Filipino theater artists and then expand to Filipinos in all creative fields, not just um theater arts, but visual arts, culinary arts, and wherever those networking things would take me. It's still there, and hopefully I will be able to come back to it soon.

[5:38] Laura Camien: Yeah, you have to make this podcast. I mean, you don't have to. This is a must do. We hope that you make this podcast. We are rooting for you in this podcast.

[5:46] Dax Valdes: Thank you. I think you are officially admitted into the Spark File. Well done.

[5:52] Susan Blackwell: Well done. And for people who don't know you well, how do you identify creatively?

[6:00] Dax Valdes: Oh man, that is always like the stumper.

[6:04] Dax Valdes: The kicker, yeah, because then I am a theatrical multi-hyphenate. Um I I have my training as an actor, and then I moved to the city and I was auditioning. That was not fulfilling. So I started getting an opportunity to choreograph some things. So I started doing some kid shows and then some summer stock and then some regional theater. And then I also started being a teaching artist at the same time. Yes. Um, applying all of that. And that's where I met Susan at the vineyard. I was the education associate for a couple of seasons. I've had a like a lot of you know jobs at the same time. So just hopping from one place to another, the occasional acting gigs here and there, and then the next iteration of work was with Hollaback.

[7:00] Susan Blackwell: So, yes, Dax, can you tell us about Hollaback?

[7:03] Dax Valdes: Yes. What is Hollaback? Who created it? Why were they moved to create it? Start at the beginning. What is Hollaback?

[7:11] Dax Valdes: So Hollaback is a global people-powered movement, and our mission is to end harassment in all its forms. And we do believe that everyone deserves to be who they are wherever they are. So it was founded in 2005 by a group of folks in New York City who wanted to end harassment. And so they started this as a blog post and they were collecting and reading these stories of harassment and they were thinking, how can we end this? Wow. So they were mapping all of these reports. They found out a couple of things. One of them was that women tended to experience harassment more than men. And the common experience of people who experienced harassment, the only thing that provided relief when they experienced harassment was when somebody intervened on their behalf.

And they started training people to do that. And the methodology that we use is called the five D's. And over the last year, we've had this partnership with Asian Americans advancing justice, where we took our bystander intervention work and framed it through the lens of anti-Asian American harassment.

[8:27] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[8:28] Dax Valdes: And so with that partnership, we've hit 65,000 people trained in bystander intervention over the last year.

[8:35] Susan Blackwell: Amazing. I'm gonna turn back the hands of time to where I intersected with this. When this wave of violence towards Asian Americans began to really emerge, I was horrified, first of all. And then I was trying to figure out how to respond in a substantive way. And Javier Munoz, hi Javi, shared out this link on social media for Hollaback bystander training. And I was like, what is that? And I got in the website really quick and I signed up for free bystander training. And boy, am I glad I did. This free training, it took about one hour of my time. And friends, it is so high quality. And to my great surprise, one of the excellent facilitators was our very own Dax Valdes, who, as you just heard, I know from way back in the day. And Dax, I said this to you personally, but now I want the world to know that Hollaback training is so well designed. And you and your co-presenter, Marita, you were both so good.

[9:41] Dax Valdes: There is no question at the end of this. I just want you to bask in the glow of this praise.

[9:47] Dax Valdes: Thank you. I I receive that. I will pass that on. It really is a privilege to be doing this work right now.

[9:56] Dax Valdes: Right now, especially right now. Because, you know, you wonder sometimes if you're doing enough.

[10:04] Laura Camien: Sure.

[10:05] Dax Valdes: And that was answered for me in March when we were rolling out more of these trainings. And I was like, okay, I have the opportunity to hold space for folks. And that is not something I take lightly.

[10:17] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[10:18] Dax Valdes: It's powerful. And then you know what we teach and what we want to share is these are all actionable items. We are all capable of doing these strategies and taking care of each other. And a lot of people are hurting right now, and I I get it. What friends are sharing, what our attendees are sharing in the chat. It's it's it's nothing new, but it's like also they're not alone in their experience. So being able to be there and receive receive that is something.

[10:52] Laura Camien: It must also feel good to know that 65,000 people now, soon to be many more, are walking this earth with you know, with a new lens to see it through and with a new ability to help when they can. That has to feel significant.

[11:11] Dax Valdes: Absolutely. I want to speak for um myself and the listeners who are perhaps listening who attempted to sign up for these classes. And I mean, literally, like within I don't know, half an hour from when Susan told me about it. Um, and I had heard about it from two other people. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going, I'm going to sign up and done. Like there was no dunzo, no, no, no. Standing room only.

[11:39] Dax Valdes: So um, I have some questions about the training, but I also want for my own being. Can you tell us all like if we have we missed the boat on this?

[11:50] Dax Valdes: No, please check out our website, iHollaBack.org. We're working to roll out more public trainings. These trainings are free to anyone who wants to come and learn how to be a good bystander. So that is also one of the most amazing things about this organization. They're providing free training to the public.

[12:08] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[12:12] Dax Valdes: And I remember I remember taking it the first time, and I was I I was I was amazed. It's an action packed hour.

[12:21] Dax Valdes: Yeah, it really is. Like it goes by very quickly. It is beautifully crafted curriculum, and it's super interactive.

[12:29] Laura Camien: Yeah, it's really um there's a reason why there's a demand. It's really good.

[12:34] Dax Valdes: This is exciting. Can you like dig in and tell us a little bit more about that curriculum? You mentioned five D's.

[12:40] Dax Valdes: Yeah. So again, like these are all real simple strategies that we have available to us. They don't cost anything. TSA won't examine your bag for them. Um the first so the D doesn't stand for detaser, it stands for something else.

[12:58] Laura Camien: Okay.

[13:00] Dax Valdes: The first one is distract, and you're simply just creating a distraction to de escalate a situation. The second one is delegate, and this is just asking somebody for help. Third is document. So we always want you to prioritize your safety. So if you feel safe, you can consider taking a photo or a video of what's going on and then giving that footage to the person who experienced the harassment if it wasn't you. Uh-huh. And then delay. Delay is something that everyone can do. It is simply just checking in on the individual who is experiencing that disrespect and making an offer of how you can support them in that moment. And then direct is speaking up about the harassment or the disrespect when it's happening. Like directly to the harasser, potentially. And you know, in this current climate, everybody is thinking if I'm going to be engaging in direct, it's going to be some escalated physical moments, but it doesn't have to be.

[14:09] Dax Valdes: It can be a conversation. You overhear something inappropriate, and then you just address that statement or that joke in the moment, and hopefully it is like, oh yeah, that wasn't cool. Thank you. And then move on. Are these like steps or is it more like a menu of like assess the situation?

[14:26] Dax Valdes: It's a menu.

[14:35] Susan Blackwell: Okay. Interesting. And do you have you personally have a superpower? Like, do you have one that you like go to the one I feel most comfortable doing, or does it vary?

[14:46] Dax Valdes: I am a distract. I don't mind trying to break the tension, you know, if it's not too serious, something silly. But now I'm aware of all of these other strategies. I got to use delay last week. I was in Costco. Super crowded, the one on East 117th, and then there was an altercation by the front. Somebody got pushed, and then one of the employees got spat on. And I wasn't able to. She was fine, like bodily, she was fine. On the way out the warehouse, I saw her again. I just went up to her and said, Are you okay from earlier? And she looked at me for a minute and she goes, Oh yeah, I'm fine. She smiled and she said, Thank you for asking. So that was right. That's yeah, that was delay.

[15:42] Dax Valdes: Yeah. And that small, that small acknowledgement of what happened, and also just seeing her smile was also like, okay, yeah, she is good. I just want to, I just want to make sure you're good. I'm good. And that reinforces for that person that like the person who is harassing them was an anomaly, and the rest of us see what was wrong with that behavior.

[16:08] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. If there hadn't been a bunch of people crowded in that Costco, and you could have gotten to the sort of the situation faster. You said that you're a distract, you're a distractor. That's your superpower. How might you have played it differently if you hadn't been able to get there more quickly?

[16:29] Dax Valdes: If it was possible, maybe I would have maybe taken a shopping cart and maybe wedged my way through them. I'm sorry, excuse me, excuse me. You're blocking the way everything good, and then maybe just check in on what the person who is being harassed, maybe just give them a nod. Look at the person creating the conflict, just give them a nod. You know, uh-huh. You're good. Oh, you am I on the way? Let's oh, okay. So give me one second, let's move. And then maybe that is enough opportunity for the tension to diffuse the energy to change, yeah.

[17:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yeah. And then other people can step in and just like even create some more space, get the two parties apart. That would be my go-to in that situation if I was able to do that. But you know, you think about it afterwards in the moment, sometimes you're just like, oh, what do I do? Uh-huh. You know, so, but there are ways to overcome that moment. You're like, okay, acknowledge it and then take a deep breath and if you're comfortable, go for it.

[17:35] Dax Valdes: You were talking about in the training, you offered something that I was like, man, it almost sounds cinematic, but I can totally see how it would work. If you see something like that going down, like if you have a smoothie or something or a drink in your hand, dropping the drink, like if you're on the subway, like creating something, a kerfuffle that just redirects the energy. It's a little bit like a magician kind of being like, look over here, look over here for enough time to just sort of break that little harassment force field of energy. Or something like a Mr. Bean type situation where like if you were of course fully like confident in your physical presence and you're going through and you're disrupting things, and it's like, oh, that's me. Oh, sorry. Okay, well, you know, just gonna keep going. People are going to track that and then forget about like what was going on, or forget that I was mad at this person, or you know, yeah, something like that.

[18:37] Dax Valdes: Yeah, yeah. I don't have that kind of confidence to move through the world like that. But that is a great way to distract. And then I always say, like, if you've been on the subway in New York City, what time is it? It's showtime.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: So this reminds me of something, which is this is distinct from harassment. What you are doing is bystander training to intervene in harassment. But I remember being on a very crowded subway car, and there was a woman on the train, another woman got onto the train, and very quickly there was just sort of you're in my space, you're in my space, and it escalated into a physical fight quicker than you can blink. It escalated. Watched it all happen. And a man on the train essentially created this distraction, but he basically talked one of the women very quickly. It was amazing how quickly he did this. He talked her back out the still open door of the subway, got her onto the platform and the doors shut.

So he essentially separated the two people and broke the energy. It was one of the most masterful things I'd ever seen. And I watching it, I was like, this was a full-blown fight with people like they were falling into other passengers on the train. And I couldn't help but think this is not the first time this guy has done this. Like this guy is a professional distractor.

[20:13] Dax Valdes: Yeah.

[20:14] Susan Blackwell: And he was a stranger to them. It was amazing.

[20:18] Dax Valdes: Wow.

[20:20] Susan Blackwell: It was amazing. And I when you were teaching the other day, and you were going through DAX, these different Ds, I don't want to say them again, distract, delegate, document, delay, and direct. I was like, I am not. I don't, I wish I would I in my mind I would love to be that confident to be a distractor. I don't know, maybe if the moment was right, it really seemed like the right thing to do. But I was like, oh, I know I'm a delay. I know I can swing back and make space for people and care for them and let them know that the world isn't made up of harassing assholes. I know I can do that. I don't know if I'm a direct, I don't know if I could just step up and be like, I'm sorry, what did you say? Oh, tell me why that joke is funny. Oh yeah, like I don't know. I don't know if I'm that brave. But it was it was interesting to sort of test out like what those superpowers might be for the individual.

[21:18] Laura Camien: Dax, when you hear these, do you feel like you have a go-to superpower or superpowers?

[21:23] Laura Camien: Well, I'm just thinking about it, and I do think I'm no Mr. Bean, but I'm like, I could distract. I think that I have actually, I'm thinking of times that I may have done it like without being aware of what I've done. But when you describe that scenario, I think I would be able to walk up and be like, oh, excuse me. Like if that was someone who worked there, be like, can you help me find the whatever? Oh, I totally interrupted you guys. Sorry, but I just really need this can of beans or you know, whatever. I feel sometimes I don't know. It's a little Midwestern sort of quality that like some people kind of think I'm not up to any mischief, but maybe I am.

[22:04] Laura Camien: So I feel like I could probably pull off some distraction. But the other I do think I'm with you on document. I'm curious if this comes up for other people. Document gives me anxiety, even though we're living in a world where it is so important. Thank goodness people have documented things. And I feel like, oh my gosh, I don't know that I would think about let me get out my phone and take a photo or take a video. And I'm just curious, like if you have had discussions with people more, like can you say more about that document piece?

[22:41] Dax Valdes: I will say one instance that comes to mind that was Darnella Fraser.

[22:49] Laura Camien: Oh.

[22:50] Dax Valdes: Her video of what happened is bringing some justice to George Floyd's family. First of all, all hail Darnella Frazier. It is an amazing thing that a then 17 year old had the presence of mind to get that phone out. And I just want to say I'm thankful that she had that storage on her phone, that space that her phone was charged. I'm not kidding. That her phone was charged. Like there's so many ways this could have that her she could keep her hands steady. Like there's so many ways that this could have gone differently. So all hail.

[23:30] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:31] Dax Valdes: I just we've talked about her so much in our house this week and just how remarkable and world-changing what she did was. So I just want to say that. But I also want to say to bring it back to the work that Dax and Hollaback is doing, the thing that I love about it is Dax. I feel like what you're doing with Hollaback is giving people options in the cool light of day when we can take it in so that if slash when we are present to these circumstances, we can dig, take a breath, center, dig deep, and have superpowers at our disposal.

[24:13] Dax Valdes: Yeah.

[24:14] Laura Camien: Yes. And I actually mean this like in a positive way that with this menu now, my mind can work through these. Like what can I do? I can do this, this, this, this. If those are not available to me, I can do this. And that's so essential. It's so essential just to have those, just to have that realization that I have options.

[24:36] Dax Valdes: Yeah.

[24:37] Laura Camien: Could we go back and we'll go through the five D's again and just give us, we'll slow it down a little bit and give us a few examples. So we'll start again with distract.

[24:45] Dax Valdes: So we talked about you could Laura could be a Mr. Bean and reach for a candy. Did you help me get that box of scandal? I don't know why I'm putting this on like Costco now. Pull all of the cans down and be like, oops, yeah, oops. I'm just like, yeah. Sorry, but I need a clean up.

[25:07] Dax Valdes: But it would I mean that would we're laughing and we're joking. But if you like if something really was going down and you reached up, who gives a shit? If you reached up and cleared a shelf of beans or made a mess on the floor or made a big sound, that would change the energy in the moment.

[25:24] Laura Camien: That's right.

[25:25] Dax Valdes: Like no joke. But it takes a certain boldness. But I'll tell you, that who cares? Who cares if a bunch of beans fall? Why is it all about beans and Mr. Bean? But it's true. It's like there are these things that I think social nicety and even my shy, my own shyness. Yeah, I know people think when I say that, they think I'm full of beans, but I really am like a very shy person. And I think, well, what's the big deal if you like drop a Starbucks and it sprays everywhere and everybody jumps back and goes, Oh, that would change the course potentially of someone's life. Like pay some dry cleaning bills and have people think you're insane for a minute and change the course of somebody's life.

[26:10] Laura Camien: Okay, so what are some other examples of distraction that we can just put into our toolkit?

[26:16] Dax Valdes: I like to pretend I know somebody and be a see a stranger in public and if there's something happening, oh my gosh, hey, Laura, you you're on my online yoga class, right? How are you? Or you just strike up an immediate conversation. Oh my goodness, it's so great to see you again.

[26:36] Dax Valdes: You were experiencing the harassment. That way you're focusing positive energy on them. And you can also, if you're comfortable, move your body to block the person who's creating the harassment. And it's like, oh my gosh, thank you. Oh, hi, thanks. And then maybe, you know, the other person will catch on, do you need help? You want to want to get out of here? All right, let's go off to the corner. All right. Thanks. See you later. And then just, you know, get on out of there and make sure that person feels safe and cared for in that moment.

[27:11] Laura Camien: Yes.

[27:11] Dax Valdes: But then you know, you could also just like distract by, you know, if it's something that's happening like in a Zoom meeting, maybe you put up a silly filter, or you know, you blitz out or you make a loud sound so that it is like, wait, what's going on? If there is something happening in the chat, or if and then maybe other people will catch on, not necessarily distract, but maybe they will like directly address the behavior that's going on. Hey, you guys cut it out, let's let whatever it is, right? Let's be respectful in this space. Please call people by their requested titles. So again, that's super super creative. Get creative. I'm not even kidding when I say if you if a situation like that happened, this sounds so ludicrous, but if you made like a huge fart sound, I know that sounds stupid, but it's sort of just like breaking the energetic flow, disrupting it with something else. So that could be something silly and loud or something that just makes people's heads turn.

[28:19] Susan Blackwell: Or like you were saying, Dax, this is the part of me where I'm like, Susan, you're an actor, you know how to improvise. So to be able to walk up to somebody and say, Oh my gosh, I haven't seen you since the reunion. How hard you this jackass can do that. I can do this. And another layer of this that I just want to add that I'm sort of observing in myself. Look at me getting all excited. Um, another piece of this that I observe in myself is when I just think of myself as a human being, I am I think of myself as being introverted and shy and maybe not capable of these bolder moves that we're talking about. But when I think of myself as a teacher, somebody who makes space and is always looking to elevate people and protect them, when I think of myself of taking control of a room like a teacher or like a moderator, a facilitator, a teaching artist, then I'm like, I feel I feel like Clark Kent turns into Superman. So I'm like, then be your teacher self, Susan, be that version of you, show up that way. I think that is a distinction that I will also put in my toolkit.

[29:29] Dax Valdes: You're delegating to yourself. Essentially, delegating to yourself. Essentially, right? You're just giving yourself permission. I know what these are. Yeah, I can do it. Yeah. Here I go.

[29:40] Dax Valdes: I was just gonna add that um that also, so yes to the teacher energy, but I also am like, hey, if anyone grew up in a family environment where you know the adults at any point started to get, you know, rowdy and the energy was changing, like any number of things. Like kids do it so naturally, like that distract and change the energy to make sure that either parents aren't fighting or you know, Uncle Johnny who's come by isn't gonna disrupt, you know, the happy household. It's like it's almost second nature in kids who've grown up in families like that. And you know, having said what I said earlier, it's like that might be why that's something that feels kind of natural to me. Bystander intervention during the holidays, super crucial. All right. So it's just like all right. It might get a little tense right before dessert. So that's right. You could just drop the turkey on the case.

[30:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, exactly. Drop the turkey. Exactly. Yeah.

[30:41] Dax Valdes: So delegate, tell us some more examples of how we can delegate.

[30:45] Dax Valdes: So delegate is just basically asking people to help you out in the moment. So if you are not comfortable being direct, you could delegate to the big burly guy on public transportation. Hey, you see that block those doors. We don't want to let this guy get away. Hey, can you take a photo or a video of what's going on on the other side of the car? Hey, can you go tell the train conductor what's going on? Nice. And then, hey, you know what I mean? Like making sure that we're orchestrating success for the person who is being harassed that we are able to take care of them.

[31:21] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So speaking to what your reticence was, Laura earlier about like, I don't know if I could do that. But if you can tell people what to do, what you need them to do in the moment, yeah, because maybe you have a clearer head at that time and just be like, I can see all of this going out in the different variations like a chess master, but also just making sure that we're covering all our bases. And it doesn't have to be anything big, it could also be like super subtle. Hey, it looks like you know, that guy keeps staring at that woman. Hmm, hey, friend, do you think you can just go and drop your phone right between them and pick it up and stand in between them? I'm gonna see if we can just create a little space between them, and then I'm gonna go tell this guy over here to keep an eye out on him and tell him what's going on.

[32:11] Dax Valdes: And that doesn't have to be among if you're traveling with if you're with people, that doesn't have to be you delegating to strangers. It could be like if there's a little cluster of people that you know, you know, business colleagues or friends coming home after like a thing. That's so interesting. So if you can tap into the superpower of being that chess master and boss to be able to say that's that's great, delegate and then seeing other people do it. I think much like your subway story, Susan, and you're watching that guy be Captain Distractor, and you had that realization that's like, oh yeah, yeah, I could do that, and but that he's also been witness to so many similar things like that that that is his go-to.

[32:57] Susan Blackwell: It's like, hmm. But I will say, like, what works for one person may not work for another. So that's why there is this menu to choose from, and you can take as little or as much as you want from that and apply it to the situation.

[33:11] Dax Valdes: Yes. I like a combo planner, totally like a I'm gonna delegate, yeah, you document this, and I'm gonna distract. But I would I want you to get my distraction documented even. Yeah, shot. Yeah, yeah, you're in the shot. Back to one, back to one. Literally just like pretend you're filming something in the subway, and you're like, wait, what? Yeah. Hey, Mr. You're in the shot. Can you move away, please? Amazing. Thank you. All right. Action. Yes. It's my first time on the subway. I just wanted to get a really good photo.

[33:47] Dax Valdes: I'm from hands in. No, no shade to those who are like, you know, avid TikTokers. That's right. That's right. No shame. You're saving lives. You're saving lives. Um, so so document that includes it could be photographs of you know, harassers, perpetrators, it can be video. Everybody has a everybody has a video camera in their pocket now. Is there anything else to be said about document that we want to explore any further?

[34:19] Dax Valdes: You can also write stuff down. Write down exactly what happened. That's right. Who said what? The oldie pen and styley. Yield thumbs. Wow. Now that's thumbs on keyboards or your feather quills. However, you'd like to roll. Yes. Take it out of my the plume out of my hat. Um you're writing down everything that happened, like who was there, who said what, including like how you maybe felt if it happened to you. But if you're writing it down for somebody, it's like 59th and 8th men in red shirt yelled at woman in with the green bag. And then you could maybe just give that to the individual and as a reminder of like what that documentation, this is what happened for them there.

[35:10] Susan Blackwell: And any footage that you create, we encourage you to give it to the person who's experiencing the harassment so they can decide what to do with that. So essentially, we don't want to just be social justice warriors and share that without their consent. Because we want to be taking care of that person in that moment. So maybe they're not comfortable being displayed across all the social media channels. Or even having, as you were saying in the training, even having you think you might be doing a great thing by taking that footage straight to the police, but that may not be course in the NBC. I've got this. Yeah, you know, maybe maybe not the right thing for that person.

[35:57] Dax Valdes: Exactly, exactly. But also then you can screenshot what's going on if you're getting harassing like texts or emails, and then you have a record of what that has been looking like for you, if it is you who is being harassed. And also it looks the same, and then it's not the same for an individual. So we're all experiencing a range of disrespect and harassment. So screenshotting would be a useful tool with document.

[36:32] Dax Valdes: Yeah. Great, great. And then delay. So delay, tell I feel like delay, tell me if I'm right about this, is after the event, the harassment has occurred, circling back to the person who was on the receiving end of it and checking in with them, making sure they're okay, providing what support you are able to in that moment, what a feel feels appropriate. Am I getting that right?

[37:01] Dax Valdes: Exactly. This is like the it's that caring moment. This is every something that everyone can do. And you know, like thinking in like musical theater terms, right? This would be stacks, lay it out. This would be theater. This would be a song, you know, saying, like, I saw that, that wasn't right. How can I help you? Are you okay? Yeah. So it is like whatever that person needs in that moment. So, hey, you want me to wait with you until your friend comes, or yeah, you know, I always it was a great example from our executive director in a training that I was sat in on hers of using it with somebody who may not speak the same language as you. You can wait around with them, you can delegate to other people nearby. Maybe they speak the same language as the person who was just experiencing the harassment. Again, making sure that we're taking care of them at that moment.

[38:03] Susan Blackwell: Here's me. This is my go-to superpower here. Like, I feel like I'd be really good at this. I also I'm struck by we did a spark on the podcast recently, Dax, about the stress response cycle. And the stress response cycle is like when something stressful happens, in order to avoid burnout, you want to make sure that you continue moving through the stress response cycle. And there's a lot of different things that can complete the stress response cycle. It's hard to say stress response cycle many times in a row. But one of the things that can complete the stress response cycle is having just light, positive interaction. Doesn't have to be deep with strangers. Saying things like, um, uh it's a beautiful day today, isn't it?

I really love your jean jacket, things like that because it sends our nervous system a message that the world is actually that there are pockets of the world that are actually safe and kind and compassionate. And I feel like something like this. Now it may not completely resolve whatever trauma the person on the receiving end of the harassment experienced, but I do think there's something about that, just like very it doesn't even have to be prolonged, but just like that light acknowledgement and kindness that would begin repairing the nervous system after a stressful thing like that.

[39:37] Dax Valdes: Yeah, it's it's a validation, right? So even if you don't say anything and you and you know, maybe you like step off the train and the woman you turn to and you just maybe give a nod and a little wave as the doors close. She'll remember that as she continues on her subway ride. So, and it is just like, yeah. That didn't just happen to me in a vacuum. Somebody else saw that. Yeah, that's right. And it's just the acknowledgement of okay, then I am not, I am not alone in the world.

[40:14] Dax Valdes: That's right. You're being recognized. And even if you don't, even if there are no words, it's like, oh yeah, she did, she did chuck on me. Mm-hmm.

[40:23] Dax Valdes: And that takes us to the fifth D, direct. And direct means it's not direct as in like I'm a director who's delegating. It's direct, like directly addressing, communicating and addressing the harasser. Yes. Or the whatever the action is, whether it is the person creating the harassment or the behavior that they have exhibited.

[40:49] Dax Valdes: So there are ways to do this as well. Like, you know, hey, that's racist. Uh-huh. You could also just state it like that, but a lot of folks don't feel comfortable being that direct, right? Direct. You could also do it by naming the behavior that you observe. Hey, they look uncomfortable. Leave them alone. Uh-huh. Or again, in those intimate conversations, maybe it's something that you overhear in the grocery store, or maybe it's something that you're back in the office and you overhear an exchange, and your spidey sense tingles, and you're like, wait a minute, that didn't sound right. Then you can turn to them, hey. I you know, I heard you said this, I'm hearing it like this. Is that what you mean? And hopefully that's an opportunity for somebody to self-correct.

[41:46] Dax Valdes: Uh yeah. And you don't actually have to accuse them of anything. And also, that's also that's also a choice, you know. Is this do you want to have this conversation? Do you want to call in this person and have them sit in this moment with you? And if you do, then like more power to you. And that is an opportunity for growth through that discomfort. And hopefully, it is like growth for good.

[42:25] Dax Valdes: And then once you tell them what you need them to do and why they're doing is wrong, or whatever it is making you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to give them any more attention than that. You turn your attention to the person that they were disrespecting, and then you get them out of that situation and then get them to safety. And delay.

[42:52] Laura Camien: Yeah, leave them alone. How about you? Are you okay? Should we get out of here? Or if they say no, I'm fine, are you sure?

[43:00] Dax Valdes: Okay. And you know, like, because maybe it is an exchange between friends or partners, and we don't know their story, but we have done our bit as a bystander. We see something that we think might be wrong, we've asked, and in that instance, she said no, or they said no, and we have to take them at their word for that. But if it is something where it is uh harassment that is totally, totally unwanted, okay. You've set that boundary with that person, you're turning your attention to the other individual. Are you okay? Let's get out of here. I'll walk with you down the block, or I'll wait with you until your Uber comes, or whatever you need in that moment.

[43:47] Susan Blackwell: You know, I love that little addendum that you just shared, Dax, of Are You Sure? Just that little double check-in. And it reminds me of when, you know, when somebody falls down in public and like on the sidewalk in New York and uh, you know, a bunch of strangers turn and see them. I have developed this habit where I if I'm close by and I'm the first one there, I say, hold on, don't get up. Because people's tendency, they're in shock, they're embarrassed, and they want to pop back up, which is not always the best move. And I'm like, hold on a second, let's just take a breath and just can you do a quick just scan your body and just see if everything is okay before you get up. And that to me is another version of the double check, just because it's these events can be shocking, they can make people feel embarrassed, they can sort of take them out of their body and to just do that double check.

And once you've done everything that you can, like you were saying, Dax, then you can proceed from there. And like Laura was saying, do you circle back and have a delay moment with them? But I I'm a fan of that. Let's just take a breath. Are you sure? That are you sure? Let's take a breath. That is like delay direct and combination. Because you've gone to help them.

[45:15] Dax Valdes: Oh, so I can direct.

[45:16] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[45:17] Dax Valdes: Um, I was just gonna say that the double check is um is important because we are so habituated to say I'm fine. Um, you know, when people ask, are you fine? Like that knee-jerk reaction is I'm fine. But if you are gonna ask again and really seem to be open to me saying something other than I'm fine, then you may get a more, you know, um closer to the truth answer like maybe not so fine or not great, or yeah, I would like to get out of here, and I could use your help.

[45:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yeah. I hope that this is obvious to people, but just in case it's not, will you say a little bit more about why this work matters so much right now in the world that we're living in? Globally, we've all had this experience, and then in the US, the resurgence of Black Lives Matter under this global pandemic. That social justice movement was so hard to ignore. And yeah, knowing that humans have such a great capacity to care for one another, and it has just been, you know, we're losing sight of one another, I think. And then at the start of this year, with the rise in anti-Asian bias, it also makes it doubly hard to ignore that we do need to make change in all aspects of our life, and this is a great way to start doing that.

It is small actionable steps that everybody can do, no matter if you're black, no matter if you're Asian or part of the LGBTQ community, the Muslim or Jewish community, we have all experienced some form of harassment and discrimination, and knowing what that feels like and seeing it happen to somebody else, hopefully should activate that feeling within us of yeah this hurts. I don't want anybody else to hurt. So what can I do to help and support you in this moment? The empathy, the compassion.

[47:39] Dax Valdes: Yeah. You know, I I'll say it, I said it before, and I just want to say it again because it's sort of coming into focus in my mind as somebody who is um can be, and I know when people hear this, they're used to seeing me in a professional context. But when I'm not in a professional context, I can be very uh shy and withdrawn. I live on the side of a mountain. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So that version of me can sometimes find themselves in situations like this. And I think what I need to ask of myself is in situations like this, I must act, I must be my highest self. I must be acting from my bravest self, my most intuitive self, like that highest vibration version of myself. That's what I and when I think of being a teacher, that's what I think of. So I'm just kind of putting this together in real time. Thank you for going along on this journey with me. You ask about risks.

[48:45] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[48:45] Dax Valdes: So every time that you intervene, essentially it's a risk.

[48:50] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[48:51] Dax Valdes: Right. So we're taking a chance that we can make a difference, and we're taking a chance on helping this individual in need at this moment. So it is a brave thing to do. And we should give ourselves permission to use our voices. Dex, can you tell us again, tell us one more time. How can people find Hollaback?

[49:16] Dax Valdes: I holla back.org. I h o L L A B A C K dot O-R-G. Much like Gwen Stefani's song, but with the in front of it.

[49:32] Susan Blackwell: Great. Just how are your Ed McMahon numbers now, Dax? Just check it in. How are the numbers?

[49:36] Dax Valdes: Stormroll, please.

[49:38] Susan Blackwell: Drum, please.

[49:39] Dax Valdes: Three quarter stars.

[49:41] Susan Blackwell: On the neck, as you say.

[49:43] Dax Valdes: On the route. We'll call it the Spark File effect. I have a question for you both. What has made you happy in the last seven days?

[49:54] Laura Camien: Oh. One thing that's made happy. I know immediately. I know immediately what my answer is.

[50:00] Susan Blackwell: Go, go, Laura, go.

[50:02] Laura Camien: Well, uh all of our listeners know this already, but we teach this um we're teaching this six-month Spark File, like select group creativity coaching program. And so we've got about 25 or so incredible creative people from in all areas. We like we have an artistic director of uh her family farm, and we have people writing musicals, people creating podcasts. Um we have just hit the mark right now. I'm trying to think of when this episode's gonna air, but we just hit the mark in today's um as we film this or record this today, where people are sharing out like where they are in their creative project. And it is so thrilling. It's like having 25 additional projects that I'm working on that Suza's working on that we're like, oh my gosh, look at all of this creativity that is coming to life, like this kapowee moment where it is like bursting forth and starting to become real and tangible.

And it's thrilling. It's it's absolutely thrilling to be able to like link arms. This whole group is like linked together, and we're all like, we're crossing this finish line. We are getting our creative projects across this finish line, and we're doing it together. And it feels incredible.

[51:28] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[51:29] Laura Camien: I could go on, but I will stop. That's what's making me try to do that.

[51:32] Susan Blackwell: Not to steal, not to steal Laura's answer, but I'm gonna, I am going to piggyback on it and say I had a realization that it's like being, I feel like a delivery room nurse, and it's like being present for all these beautiful babies being born. And I literally, we sit in these creative shares, it's all on Zoom, but I just sit and cry because I'm just like this. I'm so moved by their work. I'm so proud of what they're doing. I'm so present to the risks that they're taking. And I feel so happy, Dax. I feel like so privileged that this is the work that we get to do in the world. So privileged to stand in the presence of people taking these.

[52:21] Dax Valdes: And if I can just add that that I know that we know that the work that they're doing is so good for the world, like this work getting out into the world will be good for the world.

[52:33] Laura Camien: So I'll yeah.

[52:34] Dax Valdes: Yeah. Because it's not going to do anybody any good inside.

[52:40] Susan Blackwell: That's right. And I think that's one of the beauties. You gotta share the light, baby.

[52:44] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's like one of the beautiful moments of being a facilitator is when folks have that aha.

[52:54] Dax Valdes: Yes.

[52:55] Laura Camien: Or that breakthrough, and you are present for that. And it's like not anything that we take credit for. We're just it's your journey. We're just you know, holding the door open, whether or not you are ready to step through is your choice, but also knowing that like come out into the world and create a baby, come on into the world. It feels great. All in all in your own time, just three little teaching artists sitting around with pride.

[53:26] Dax Valdes: Look at the three of us with like 2500 plus babies or so.

[53:31] Laura Camien: Yes, yes, Dax. Do you want to share something that has made you happy in the past seven days?

[53:39] Dax Valdes: I framed a lot of art. Um, and I picked it up today. I left my apartment. Oh, I um I got them all framed, and I'm super super stoked about each of them. I just don't know where we're gonna put them yet, but I really that's the next piece of fun.

[54:01] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, also like that is like so I was like, that's one of the most grown up things I've done in a while. So I really like it.

[54:10] Dax Valdes: I don't know, you're over there changing the world with holla back, yeah. You're you're a legit, you're creating important things.

[54:16] Susan Blackwell: Thank you. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Dax. We we just really appreciate it. What a joy.

[54:25] Dax Valdes: Thank you.

[54:26] Susan Blackwell: That I think is it. This episode of the Spark File was made on Muncie Lenape and Seminole Land, and we hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file. If there's a spark that you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, you can email us at thesparkfile at gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. We actually just today got this great email from I'm gonna shout her out. Hey Tillotson, thank you for that email. Thank you for that great spark. We're gonna rock that spark. Thank you, Joe.

[55:01] Laura Camien: Yeah, we are. And we will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently. And be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe, rate, five-star review it. You know the drill. If you like this podcast, share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, I don't know. Dax, what do you say to your critics?

[55:20] Dax Valdes: Share it with people you love anyways.

[55:35] Laura Camien: Yeah. Genius. If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame. You gotta take it and make it bye.

[55:59] Susan Blackwell: When I bumped into something that inspires me. I dump it in the spark files. Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in my spark files. I jump into my spark files. Let's open up the spark files.