This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: Hi friends, Susan here.

[0:02] Susan Blackwell: In this episode of The Spark File, we talked to my meditation instructor, Emily Fletcher of Ziva Meditation.

[0:08] Susan Blackwell: As you're about to hear, when we recorded this episode earlier in the pandemic, Emily was smack dab in the middle of a big creative risk.

[0:15] Susan Blackwell: She was making an online meditation program for kids.

[0:19] Susan Blackwell: That program, Ziva Kids, is out now.

[0:22] Susan Blackwell: You can find out more about Emily's work for kids and adults at zivameditation.com slash spark.

[0:30] Susan Blackwell: By using that link, you'll be doing yourself a solid by accessing a treasure trove of resources and you'll be supporting the Spark File too.

[0:38] Susan Blackwell: That's Z-I-V-A-meditation.com slash spark.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: Enjoy the show.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: The Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content.

[0:48] Susan Blackwell: Please use your discretion.

[0:54] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me.

[0:59] Susan Blackwell: I jump in in my spark file.

[1:02] Susan Blackwell: Spark file to be something that I want to make or how I wanna be.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark file.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: Spark file.

[1:12] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark file.

[1:17] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[1:22] Susan Blackwell: Welcome to the spark file, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[1:29] Laura Camien: I'm Laura Camien.

[1:30] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[1:31] Susan Blackwell: If you're an OG listener, welcome back.

[1:33] Susan Blackwell: Sparkler, if you're joining us for the first time, welcome, new friend.

[1:38] Susan Blackwell: But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:41] Susan Blackwell: Where do I get one?

[1:42] Susan Blackwell: What do I file in it?

[1:43] Susan Blackwell: These are such good questions, and we do have answers.

[1:46] Laura Camien: Mm-hmm.

[1:47] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is the place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:52] Susan Blackwell: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: We are here to refill it.

[2:02] Susan Blackwell: We're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity.

[2:09] Susan Blackwell: Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast.

[2:14] Susan Blackwell: Or an entire practice built around making the world a better place, one meditator at a time.

[2:22] Susan Blackwell: Or a book that helps people stress less and accomplish more.

[2:26] Susan Blackwell: Or a treasure trove of free online resources to support anyone who needs them.

[2:32] Susan Blackwell: Or a beautiful home and a beautiful workspace.

[2:35] Susan Blackwell: On today's Makersode, we're gonna talk to someone who truly sparks us.

[2:39] Susan Blackwell: And that special someone is someone who has influenced my brain, maybe more than anyone else on the planet.

[2:46] Susan Blackwell: Please welcome Emily Fletcher.

[2:48] Susan Blackwell: Emily, welcome to the Spark File.

[2:54] Emily Fletcher: Emily.

[2:57] Emily Fletcher: I sing your opening song.

[2:59] Emily Fletcher: I sing your podcast intro oftentimes in my shower and my for your auditions.

[3:04] Emily Fletcher: For my 16 bars.

[3:07] Emily Fletcher: It's a great 16-bar cutting.

[3:09] Susan Blackwell: Emily, before we get too far into the Spark File, can you tell us where you are now?

[3:15] Susan Blackwell: How you're doing, and what you look like right now.

[3:20] Emily Fletcher: Wow.

[3:21] Emily Fletcher: I'm in Brooklyn, New York.

[3:24] Emily Fletcher: I am in my office.

[3:26] Emily Fletcher: And I look like I'm I have half of my makeup done because I'm doing a video thing right after this.

[3:34] Emily Fletcher: And I have 15 minutes in between.

[3:35] Emily Fletcher: So I'm half done makeup-wise.

[3:37] Emily Fletcher: I'm a little sweaty because I did some cardio dance movement weird stuff this morning.

[3:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm so curious whether when you say half of your makeup's done, is it like the top half of your face or the right side of your face?

[3:50] Emily Fletcher: So it's it's liner and shadow and lipstick, no lashes.

[3:56] Emily Fletcher: And so since I'm very, very pale and have very blonde eyelashes, if my mascara is not done and everything else is, I look like a little albino bunny.

[4:06] Susan Blackwell: When you said lashes, I was like, oh, three sets on the top and two on the bottom.

[4:10] Susan Blackwell: Come on.

[4:11] Susan Blackwell: Do it Liza style.

[4:13] Emily Fletcher: Um if only.

[4:14] Emily Fletcher: Oh, I do have a Liza Minnelli story for later.

[4:17] Emily Fletcher: Let's let's pop that away in the Spark File.

[4:20] Emily Fletcher: I have to write it down because I'll forget.

[4:21] Emily Fletcher: Okay.

[4:21] Emily Fletcher: Where were we?

[4:22] Emily Fletcher: Oh, yeah, that's right.

[4:24] Emily Fletcher: Back to business as usual.

[4:25] Emily Fletcher: The Spark File Price of Admission, real quick, Emily Fletcher.

[4:29] Emily Fletcher: You have to tell us a creative risk you've taken recently.

[4:34] Emily Fletcher: Well, it's a big one.

[4:36] Emily Fletcher: I am in the middle of developing what I hope to be the world's best kids' meditation training.

[4:43] Emily Fletcher: And wow.

[4:44] Emily Fletcher: Yeah.

[4:44] Emily Fletcher: And so you guys put me in touch with the sweet, your sweet friend from Sesame Street.

[4:48] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[4:49] Emily Fletcher: And he amazing touch.

[4:51] Emily Fletcher: Yes.

[4:52] Emily Fletcher: And he put me in touch with some other folks.

[4:55] Emily Fletcher: And it turns out that I had a Ziva graduate who was a puppeteer at Sesame Street.

[4:59] Emily Fletcher: And then he introduced me to this amazing woman named Liz.

[5:02] Emily Fletcher: And so anyway, it's just like a whole Sesame Street Fiesta up in here.

[5:05] Emily Fletcher: And now we're working with like Harvard Child Brain Psychologists and Dr.

[5:10] Emily Fletcher: Shafali who wrote The Conscious Parent and The Awakened Family.

[5:14] Emily Fletcher: So anyway, point of the story is I've been teaching adults to meditate my whole dang career.

[5:18] Emily Fletcher: And I've I've taught I've taught kids occasionally, like once or twice a year for the past 10 years, but it is by no means my area of expertise.

[5:26] Susan Blackwell: And for you're making it your area of expertise, yes, but it's it feels like a real risk like I I'm building a frickin' puppet I'm like I don't know anything about puppets you're like oh it costs how much money to make their eyes blink you're like how many people does it take it's like a real whole deal it's like a car yes um and it takes a long time to build so anyway I'm learning a lot about puppeteering and I'm learning a lot about child psychology where will this appear will this be online or it'll be a Ziva course so it'll just be on our on our website um but I mean from your lips to God's ears like I do feel like this so we have a character we're creating this whole character and he's training to be a superhero and I'm teaching him all these tools to unlock his superpowers and um his name is Z Bunny and he's adorable and so I was just thinking it'd be really cool if he does get on Sesame Street.

[6:15] Emily Fletcher: But you know what we might even make our who knows we might make our own like Netflix thing like who knows we'll see where it goes.

[6:21] Emily Fletcher: But right now my job is just to make the best course possible but it feels scary and new and I've been saying this stuff I've been talking about the neuroscience of stress and performance for a decade now to adults and I'm I'm someone who kind of fancies myself um erudite and I like proving how smart I am with big vocab words like that one and now I can't use any of that those skills.

[6:45] Emily Fletcher: You know like the biggest piece of criticism I'm getting is like what is that word they were like what is inhale mean what is exhale mean I'm like oh shit I gotta really I gotta I can't say shit in my kids course.

[6:58] Susan Blackwell: No I gotta really go back to the case.

[7:00] Emily Fletcher: And you can on this podcast.

[7:02] Susan Blackwell: That's so your brain is growing in so many different directions.

[7:07] Susan Blackwell: I love this thing.

[7:08] Susan Blackwell: You are officially admitted to the Spark File.

[7:11] Susan Blackwell: That is a good one.

[7:13] Susan Blackwell: That is amazing.

[7:14] Susan Blackwell: Before we get too far ahead, Emily, for people who don't know you, how do you identify yourself professionally?

[7:23] Emily Fletcher: I would identify myself as the founder of Ziva Meditation and a meditation teacher.

[7:32] Emily Fletcher: And I would say I'm most well known for making meditation attractive and accessible to high performers.

[7:41] Susan Blackwell: I would concur with that.

[7:43] Susan Blackwell: I remember when we were looking for uh a meditation instructor, not the Royal We, the company that I was working for at the time, we were looking for a meditation instructor.

[7:52] Susan Blackwell: And that's why we were drawn to you.

[7:57] Susan Blackwell: Because it you do have a different sort of um, I don't know.

[8:02] Susan Blackwell: There's just a different sort of flavor about the work that you do that felt uh accessible and appealing.

[8:09] Susan Blackwell: And uh the the thing I believe I said to you on the phone was I don't smell patchouli just like wafting out of my computer when I'm on your website.

[8:17] Emily Fletcher: Um it smells great, but it just smells different, and yeah, that makes that's good.

[8:23] Emily Fletcher: Well, yeah, I do not like patchouli.

[8:25] Emily Fletcher: Not one, not one part of me makes.

[8:27] Emily Fletcher: But if you do like patchouli, that that's great too.

[8:31] Emily Fletcher: Everybody gets to like what they like.

[8:32] Emily Fletcher: Everybody gets they're allowed to like it, but you're not allowed to wear it, Ziva.

[8:36] Emily Fletcher: It's like a hard roll.

[8:38] Emily Fletcher: I really like I really hate it.

[8:39] Emily Fletcher: Do you really?

[8:40] Emily Fletcher: Yeah, it makes me angry.

[8:41] Emily Fletcher: The color red and the smell of patchouli and and men spitting in front of me all incite immediate rage, despite my 12 years of meditating.

[8:49] Susan Blackwell: Isn't that interesting?

[8:50] Susan Blackwell: Well, you know, you know your trigger points.

[8:53] Susan Blackwell: That's that's good.

[8:54] Susan Blackwell: We are obsessed with this work of this uh author named Meta Wagner and this educator.

[9:00] Susan Blackwell: She created these five creative types, Emily.

[9:02] Susan Blackwell: So I'm going to read you the list of creative types and tell us which best describes your creative driver.

[9:11] Susan Blackwell: The A-lister.

[9:12] Susan Blackwell: You live to make an audience laugh or cry.

[9:15] Susan Blackwell: You love applause and adoration, or maybe to move your students.

[9:19] Susan Blackwell: The artisan, you become so immersed in your creative work, you lose all track of time and space.

[9:25] Susan Blackwell: The game changer, you thrive on breaking boundaries and crashing conventions.

[9:30] Susan Blackwell: The sensitive soul, you need to express yourself, and you hope your art will help others, or your work will help others.

[9:38] Susan Blackwell: And the activist, you have a fiery desire to write wrongs and change the world with your work.

[9:44] Susan Blackwell: When you hear those descriptions, is there one that feels like the driver for the work that you're doing?

[9:49] Emily Fletcher: See, yeah, sadly, it's the A-lister.

[9:51] Emily Fletcher: It's so embarrassing, but it's true.

[9:53] Susan Blackwell: Listen, Emily Fletcher, if I could squeeze you and distill it and drink it, I would drink some of that.

[10:00] Emily Fletcher: Emily Fletcher, A-Lister.

[10:02] Susan Blackwell: So you like to, you like to move your listener, your audience.

[10:07] Susan Blackwell: You love that applause and that adoration.

[10:10] Emily Fletcher: Yeah, it's just so, it's just so like embarrassingly nauseating as a meditation teacher, someone who's helping people to identify and connect with the thing that is bigger than their ego, the thing that is connected to everyone and everything, that thing that lives beyond the death of this body.

[10:26] Emily Fletcher: And yet I'm like, I want to be famous and I want to be on Oprah and I wanna like sell a million books.

[10:31] Emily Fletcher: It's it's just uh but here we are.

[10:33] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[10:34] Susan Blackwell: I am so loving your honesty and your authenticity and how well you know yourself.

[10:41] Susan Blackwell: We will have like we'll ask this question, and sometimes people will like inside they might be like, I'm leaning towards the A-lister, but I don't feel like I can say that.

[10:50] Susan Blackwell: So I I'm gonna pick something else.

[10:52] Susan Blackwell: And we're like, no, of course you can say that.

[10:54] Susan Blackwell: That is absolutely a driver and there's no judgment.

[10:57] Emily Fletcher: Um, and yet, of course, we're subconscious.

[11:01] Susan Blackwell: I'm yeah, my God.

[11:03] Susan Blackwell: But it's so funny, like it uh Cam said this before.

[11:07] Susan Blackwell: I think sometimes people perceive that as being pejorative, and we don't.

[11:11] Susan Blackwell: We actually don't.

[11:12] Susan Blackwell: We think that's a totally uh legitimate creative driver to to have those aspirations.

[11:18] Susan Blackwell: And I think it makes you an amazing entrepreneur.

[11:24] Susan Blackwell: And I think it also makes you it get it, it gets the word out.

[11:28] Susan Blackwell: Like you it gets it, it you're a big wave rider and a world changer.

[11:33] Susan Blackwell: So I say huzzah.

[11:36] Emily Fletcher: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a side dish of activists and boundary breaker.

[11:40] Emily Fletcher: You know, like that's definitely in there.

[11:41] Emily Fletcher: And that really, if you get to the root of the route, I mean, I could have gone a lot of different routes to, you know, reach for, you know, moving audiences and you know, feeling that connection.

[11:51] Emily Fletcher: I could have stayed in acting, but you know, at the end of the day, yes, I do want to change the world.

[11:56] Emily Fletcher: Climate change is, you know, like I think that we have this beautiful opportunity to build a whole new reality because our current one is changing.

[12:04] Emily Fletcher: And so, yes, that's really the the core driving force.

[12:09] Emily Fletcher: But there's definitely, but like the icing, you know, that's the uh that's the A-lister.

[12:15] Emily Fletcher: I'll take it.

[12:16] Susan Blackwell: Can you um can you tell us a little bit about like your origin story?

[12:20] Susan Blackwell: How did you end up doing what you're doing and where you are now?

[12:24] Emily Fletcher: So I was on Broadway for about 10 years, singing, dancing, acting, and is the what I wanted to do since I was a little girl. And I think this story will be relevant for your audience, but you know, I definitely was deep in the I'll be happy when syndrome. Like I thought since I was in fourth grade, like, oh, once I get on Broadway, then I will be happy. And I was so single focused, and I loved, you know, I went to school for musical theater and start, you know, was in my high school musicals and all of that, and it was amazing. And then three weeks after my Broadway debut was the saddest I had ever been. I remember like I remember like the dramatic, like slow melt down the kitchen wall, like sobbing into tears, clapping into a ball of tears, and like not understanding why I was so sad.

And what it felt like my dream had been taken away from me. And so I realized at a pretty early age that I was more interested in the happiness of pursuit than I was the pursuit of happiness. Like I was happiest when I was working towards this big goal, but I didn't really fully cognize that because I just thought, oh, well, my happiness will be in my next show, my next boyfriend, my next agent. And I did that for 10 years and then cut to chorus line where I'm understudying three of the lead roles, which means you have no idea which character you're gonna play each night. You know, it's very anxiety inducing. And I um, long story short, like I stopped being able to sleep. I had insomnia for 18 months.

I was going gray in my 20s, I was getting sick and injured, and it was very confusing why I was doing the thing I had wanted to do since I was a child. And at this point I'm full-blown miserable. Like I'm having dreams about being possessed by the devil and having like panic attacks in between shows, like rocking myself in fetal position, listening to Eckhart Tolle on repeat, and being like, this is not my dream. And then finally, this girl sitting next to me in the dressing room who was understudying five of the leads, including Cassie, and crushing. And I was like, Lady, what do you know that I don't know? And she said, I meditate. And I was like, Oh god, one of you. This was 12 years ago, you know.

And there's more of us now, but 12 years ago, there was it was sneakier, right? Like we were a little bit harder to come by, we meditators. And so I didn't believe her. I just rolled my eyes and I was like, oh god. And I just kept having insomnia, kept going gray, kept sucking at my job. And then finally I was so embarrassed about my performance that I was like, I gotta try something. So I went along this meditation course. First day of the first course, I was meditating. I didn't know what that meant, but I was in a different state of consciousness that I had ever been in. And then that night I slept through the night for the first time in 18 months, and I have every night since, and that was 12 years ago.

And then I stopped going gray. I'm 41 now. I have like two gray hairs, which I promptly pluck out. I then I didn't get sick for eight and a half years. I stopped getting injured. But the main thing that happened is that I started enjoying my performance again. And I just thought, why does everyone not do this? And so I left Broadway, I went to India, and I started what became a three-year training process to teach. And then since graduating, I have taught 25,000 people to meditate. I have had a best-selling book that sold over 50,000 copies. I breastfed my way to a bestseller. I have a studio at Brook and Mortar Studio in New York, and I created the world's first online meditation training, which is why I said there's a little bit of that like boundary breaker.

Because when I did that, yeah, like the sort of esoteric forces that be in the meditation world were very angry with me that I create that I dared create an online course. This was before Headspace, it was before Oprah Chopra. And I just I didn't know if it was gonna work. That was a big risk too. I was just kind of cobbling it together, and uh, and here we are. And so it's been just the most wild, wonderful, rewarding ride I've ever wow.

[16:15] Susan Blackwell: That is incredible. Whoezy. How long? So you kept performing after you found meditation, you kept performing and and began to enjoy it again. And when did you make the transition out of performing and fully into entrepreneur land?

[16:34] Emily Fletcher: Okay, great question. Because it's a it's a and this is the this will hit our check our lies of an L box. Um thank God. Um, so I okay, so I learned to meditate. I had four days off between Chorus Line Broadway and starting rehearsals for chorus line tour. And in those four days is when I took um when I took the meditation training. And so course line Broadway, worst job I've ever had. Course line tour was the best job I had ever had until I started Ziva. And then when I was in Los Angeles, there's a couple cool stories here. So I'm in Los Angeles, it's our second city on tour, and I knew there was a bunch of meditation teachers there. So I was like, oh, let me just do some research and find a group meditation.

So I show up at this guy's house, he's like, Yeah, Wednesday, 6 p.m. Come on over. I show up, it's just him and his girlfriend, and I'm like, well, this is not the group meditation experience I was really looking for. And I walk inside, I'm meditating with like my purse on my lap, one eye open, and finally, I'm like, okay, they're not serial killers. So I close my eyes, I meditate. Afterwards. I open my eyes and I see this beautiful photo of a bridge with a light at the end of it. And I didn't, I didn't know if it was a photo or painting or what, but I couldn't stop looking at it. And I said, What is that? And they said, Oh, that's Rishikesh. And I was like, What's a Rishakesh? And they go, Oh, that's this town in India.

We go there every couple years for a retreat. Are you coming? And I was like, No. And I looked back at the picture and I looked at them and I said, Yeah, I'm gonna go. And so cut to six months later, I take myself to India for my 30th birthday. And I am we wake up every morning at dawn to meditate on the Ganges River at sunrise. And so we're crossing this bridge as the sun is rising on the other side, and I stop in my tracks and I get goosebumps every time I tell this story. I have them all over my body right now. I stop in my tracks, I start sobbing crying because it's the exact same snapshot from that photo of the bridge with the light at the end of it that was in this guy's place in LA, and I'm sobbing crying, and I know that the me in that moment has gone back to the me in Los Angeles and said, You have to come to India, you have to be a teacher. Oh, yes. Yeah, it was like this beautiful, like time folding in on itself moment. And then did you turn back around and Liza Minelli was standing there?

[18:42] Susan Blackwell: That's it. Liza was in the ashram. Okay, so then I was like, all right, I come back, I start my teacher training in earnest, and and to be honest, my teacher training was very intense. It was like 18 hours a week of meditating, hundreds of hours of transcribing books by hand and Sanskrit, thousands of hours of apprenticing. Like it was not a joke. And if you're meditating 18 hours a week, like you're basically purging every stress that you've ever had. Like it is this massive catharsis, and the flavor of my catharsis was mourning the loss of my identity as an actress. It was just like something I'd been since I was eight. Yeah, and this thing that I had done for my whole career, and it there was just this immense sadness of leaving that part of the city.

And it was a significant 30th birthday. Like there's a there's a lot in there. Yeah. And I was like single and 30, which I'm southern, so I was like, certainly I'm gonna dial them with Cassie in my face. So, you know, it's all of that. And so I then so I'm mourning the loss of my identity as an actress, and then I come back to New York, but then I get a call. I'm in New York, I start teaching acting, which we should probably talk about at some point. Um, and I get a call from Bayork Lee. And Bayork is if you don't know her, she was the original Connie Wong in original chorus line, and then she directed and choreographed, or she choreographed the Broadway revival, and she directed and choreographed the tour.

So anyway, I'd worked with Bayorc a lot, and she calls me up and she said, Emily, I would really love for you to sing at Marvin Hamlish's memorial concert. So sadly, Marvin Hamlish had died. If you don't know him, he has he's one of the few um peagot winners. So Pulitzer Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony. And he was the lyricist. Uh oh, I'm gonna get in trouble with the music theater police. He was either the composer or the lyricist for chorus line, maybe both. Don't be mad at me, everybody. Musical theaters raising their pitchforks and their torches. How very dare you, Emily Fletcher. Yep. So anyway, he sadly passed away, and they were doing a memorial concert for him. And Bayork Lee called me up and asked me if I wanted to sing at the ballet, which is the song that Sheila sings in a chorus line, which is the role that I played.

And apparently that was Marvin's favorite song. And so I was like, of course, I would be honored and delighted. But no, I haven't really like sung or performed in a long time. But I'm like, okay. So I asked my husband to come, and he was like, no, I'm not going to someone's funeral that I don't even know. I'm picturing like 200 Broadway performers in a church somewhere. So I show up for a rehearsal. So first of all, there's a rehearsal for this. I get there, Mike Nichols is directing. He's on the God mic. And I don't know. I'm on stage. And he goes, Um, Emily, I need you to bring on your microphone because we don't know what Liza's gonna do. And I was like, Liza Manelli? And he said, Yeah, he's performing right before you.

And I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool. And so then I go up in the dressing room and and I hear this amazing voice. And I said, Who is that? And they said, Oh, that's Aretha's stand in. And I said, Aretha Franklin? And they said, Yeah, she never does mic checks. And then we're walking out of the backstage, and I see a star, like dressing room star number one, and it says Strisand on it. And I was like, You gotta be kidding me. What is going on? Oh my god. Call my husband, and I'm like, babe, you are coming to this. And so it turns out I'm sandwiched, no joke, in between Liza Minelli and Aretha Franklin. Barbara Streisand is the closing number. And like that was it. That was my swan song. I never performed.

[22:14] Susan Blackwell: Amazing way to go out, and good thing you've been meditating.

[22:17] Emily Fletcher: No, no crap. I remember standing backstage and seeing Liza Manelli like on the backstage monitor and being like, is this real life? Like I'm seeing her on a screen. Like I have been since I was a child, and I'm looking at her on screen. For so many of us, when you're sort of like, uh, I don't really need to perform anymore. That's when like you get in a rocket ship.

[22:38] Susan Blackwell: That's right. All those things that you sort of are like dreamed of the minute that you're ready to be like, peace out, everybody. That's when Aretha Franklin and Liza Manelli show up.

[22:48] Emily Fletcher: That is crazy. That's why I want to write a book called Quit Your Way to Success. And not kidding at all. Because I made these t-shirts. Um, like when the book launch came out, I've made t-shirts that say detachment is sexy, and on the other side it says neediness is not. So, like, because detachment is so sexy. The second you're over it, like we have to have you. We had I had a little touch of that last year. We did a, it was sort of a 10-year anniversary thing of title of show, and we did one night on Broadway. And I was like, I don't really need or want any of that anymore. And I've never, I would say it's probably one of the greatest performances I've ever given in my life because I was just like not needing or wanting something and still having the chops to do it, is a remarkable position to find yourself in.

[23:40] Susan Blackwell: I'm so sad I didn't see that. I'm I would love to see that.

[23:43] Emily Fletcher: I'll come over to your house and I'll do it with puppets.

[23:46] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[23:47] Emily Fletcher: Well, I've got one handy. I'm gonna take that little Z Bunny puppet. Um is there now you may have just answered it, but it in your personal life, is there a demarcation line? This sort of before this thing or event or chapter happened and after. Is it that bridge and Rishakesh? Like, what is your demarcation line in your personal life where you're like, I divide my life before this happened and after this happened?

[24:12] Emily Fletcher: Oh, fascinating. I have a few of those. I would say the first is when I started therapy when I was 24. Fantastic. And the second would be when I learned to meditate. There's definitely a big before and after. I do think that moment in Rishakesh was significant. And then there was another moment in when in 2015. I got married in 2015, and I made a conscious. No, there was one before then.

[24:40] Emily Fletcher: Okay, so this is it. So this is really to answering your question that you asked a million years ago. Um, was when did I like what was that transition from acting to entrepreneurship? And in 2013 is when I was launching the world's first online meditation training. And now that might seem easy because there's like white labeled things that you can just like here's my videos. But back in 2013, you had to like cobble this together with chewing gum and yeah, like floss. It was not, it was it was very, very challenging. Yes. And I and I had no business like creating a tech platform. I could count to eight many times in a row, but you know, like that. It was just anyway. So I'm building that. I was also opening up the East Coast division of the number one acting school in Los Angeles.

It was Anthony Mindel's actor workshop. So I was training a bunch of teachers to teach this style of acting, and I was also in final callbacks to play Velma in Chicago, the musical on Broadway, all in this one week. And I was like, nobody wins here. Like this is I'm failing at everything. And I'd say one of my big flaws, maybe every entrepreneur, but certainly one of mine is that I'm just arrogant AF. Like, I just think that I can do everything. I'm like, yeah, I can launch, I can launch this course and be in final callbacks and open an acting studio studio in the same week. So anyway, that was a week that I decided to stop acting, where I was like, I am so much more passionate about teaching than I am acting.

So I called my agents and I was like, I love you guys, but I'm gonna I'm gonna mail you back my time. You know, I I this leads to a point that I am so fascinated with, which is changing your choice. I think for many people, um, they make a choice when they're very young. Sometimes they make it when they're a kid, sometimes they make it at 18 when they declare their major at school, and then they get into, you know, a lot of educational debt and things like that. And I just feel like sometimes it's really hard for people to declare that they're changing their choice. And your story illustrates beautifully is that it really is okay to change your choice. There comes those, there come those moments in life where you're sort of like, I'm changing my choice, and I'm calling my agents and saying, I love you, but I'm gonna walk a different path.

Please return my headshots and resumes. Thank you. Mm-hmm. And and there's a couple, I mean, there's so many different flavors and ways that this can unfold. And I want to be like honest about it, in that I mean, I had already gone through this mourning process. Like I prematurely mourned it for over a year. Um, and then I had this gift of you know, doing it one more time. Uh and I think thankfully in my case, I was moving towards something that I loved more and not moving away from acting. And if I'm being honest, I think that if I was solely moving away from acting, it likely would have haunted me for the rest of my life. I would have felt somehow guilty or I would have felt abandoned or betrayed, or like I had abandoned or betrayed myself.

And and I I feel like deep in my bones, I can say I didn't I didn't leave acting because I was mad at the business. I left because I found something that I loved more. And I think that the tricky part is where you feel like, oh, I'm mad at this business. It hasn't, it hasn't been fair to me. And so I'm walking away. It's like leaving a relationship with it without cleaning it up. Yeah. It's like you allowed your, you gave yourself permission to continue the search, right? Instead of like continuing to try to shoehorn yourself into something that wasn't feeling right. You kept doing it, obviously, but at the same time, you allowed yourself to keep your eyes open for a thing that you would feel more passionate about.

And once you like that, I'm thinking about that week that you identified, like it's so easy when you're like looking at, I've got the next seven days and I've got these 42 things. What's really important to me? And to like in those moments when the things really rise to the top, it's easier to see, like, oh, I wouldn't mind if this other stuff fell away and all I was doing was this. Yeah. And I think that a good litmus test is to look where you're voting with your time and your attention. And that's not your forward-facing calendar, that's your backward-facing calendar. Look at what are you doing. What does that mean? Oh, so like so. Don't look at next week's calendar. Look at last week's calendar and the week before that.

Where have you been voting with your time and attention? That's how you can tell what your priorities are. This is why I love Emily Fletcher. Every time I freaking talk to you, I get like this little spark, these gems. And it's a conversation I've been having my with myself recently, where I'm like, my life is changing, my priorities are changing. And not just because of external circumstances or the pandemic, though that in some cases has been a catalyst out of necessity to pivot and innovate and adapt. But really, even before that happened, uh, I've just been having this conversation with myself about observing how I'm voting with my time and how that has shifted and how I how feeling good about it.

I love that. Um, but I have an amazing coach, um, like a life coach. I work with Lauren Xander and and Laurie Gerber at the Hendel group. And Lauren Xander is not a joke. She's not for the faint of heart. Um, but she I had a session with her recently, and she was like, You have to take a pledge of allegiance to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And and that I'm not like an outright liar. I'm not choosing to lie necessarily. Like, I'm not like, oh no, I didn't steal that and I stole it. It's not that flavor of lying. It's it's the codependent flavor of lying, where I uh have a tendency to people please and put other people's happiness above my own. So I'll say what I think people want to hear instead of speaking my full truth.

And that was already like a huge thing to um acknowledge because you'll do that, like people pleasers will even do that with their time, right? Like, especially as moms, you'll be like, oh, well, I just have to take care of everyone else, and everyone else has to be happy, and I'll just write that book later, or I'll just work on the kids' course next month, or I'll just won't sleep this week. And that's it's just it's a form of lying. And the other real, like real doozy that got me was she said people pleasers don't believe in their dreams because they're willing to put other people's preferences above their own dreams. And I was like, oh, that gets me in the in the in a soft hearts. Oh, this is so this is yeah, this is like new.

I haven't heard you talk about this before, and it's maybe something that's sort of like coming to you freshly, Emily, but this is next level. This seems like next level shit for you. This is great. Yeah, it is. It's new. And this is also what so Lauren Xander, this is all PS from straight out of Lauren Xander's mouth. She's a freaking genius. But she's been saying for a long time. She's like, Emily, you have more to teach, you have more to teach, you have more to teach. But like step one is like you gotta like you gotta clean up your own house. Like I have to deal with my own codependency. I have to deal with my own people pleasing and just be so brutally honest with myself and everyone else because if I can't teach it if I'm not fully owning it.

And so I'm just in that process right now. So one thing she's having me do, which I think could be a fun creative spark for folks, is um purging. And this could be take a lot of different aspects. I mean, some people even do it, use their morning pages as a purge. But the way I'm doing it is that I do voice to text. So I have one note in my phone and it's just called a purge. And I usually have to do it before I meditate, because after I meditate, I'm like, everything's amazing, and I have nothing to purge. Um before I meditate, I can be like, I am sick of my husband's face. It's the only face I've seen in 10 freaking weeks, and I'm tired of working all the time. Like I can really rant it out before my meditations, and I just do voice to text, and then I have to mail them to her, like I have to email them to her.

But you could do it with a yeah. Um, so I but you could do it with a buddy, or you could even do morning pages in a journal. But I'm I find that like to catch that dark side, like I'm trying to use my dark side as my teacher right now, because my other assignment is that I'm trying to kill little Miss Sunshine, which is that people pleasing, it's fine, it's fine. It's fine, it's totally fine. Um so I've gotta like kill her. And I gotta, and and then I'm doing it by having full compassion for both the light and the dark. So that's the work that I'm in right now, which I'm really in no position to speak about except for what I'm working on personally. It's so inspiring though. It's like you're what what you're describing when I say this feels like next level shit, when you have processed further along on this and you start to gain mastery of it, I feel like what you're gonna be so in the center of your personal power, it's gonna be banana bread.

Like it's it's gonna be amazing for like all of us like recovering people pleasers to if you can lead the way and we'll be like great, feed us because uh getting to the next step of like clearing that need to make others happy is so essential. Like so many people are stuck on that, and and there aren't real easy ways around it except through. And I think especially actors, you know, because as an actor, so many of us go into acting because our childhoods maybe were like our imaginary lives were better than our real lives. And so acting specifically oftentimes and lots of forms of art, but I've I mean I know actors the best, so I see it the most in actors, but we where the art almost becomes a form of escapism.

And if you don't actually heal the original wound, if you don't stop that lineage of trauma, then oftentimes there is some sort of uh neediness. And that could be like I need the audience's approval, or I need this person to like me, or I need this person to hire me to feel validated. And while that might be a necessary evil on the business side of the job, it is the exact same thing that kills the creativity and the artistry and the bravery to be a vulnerable performer, to be uh like ugly and unliked and nasty, and like the whole human range of emotions that is required of good artists is is the exact antithesis of this people pleasing that so many actors I think are healing from. God, that is the truth.

Um, so please keep us posted on your work with that. Because I know I'm thinking I feel like that with you, Emily, you're such a remarkable teacher. I really have learned, I would say, as much or more from you than any other teacher on the planet. So good job, and hats off to you. But it's striking me as you're speaking that you are always your own first student. You're your first you like you practice on yourself, you learn something, you practice on yourself, you gain some mastery of it, and then you metabolize it into teaching. And I'm so sparked by that. I'm so inspired by that, and uh I aspire to that. So I don't know. There you go. Thank you for that. I I hear that, and I that rings true, and so I want to receive that.

And I that feels like a good title for a book, like be your own first student. Um, also I want to shoot your horn for a moment because I'm sure uh I'm sure everybody, if they're listening to this podcast, they know how genius and brilliant you are. But I just want everyone else to know that Susan is the person that I call when I have to do a big talk somewhere or give a speech or write something new. And actually, just now that we're like coming to this part of the kids' course, I'm like, I should call Susan and see if she could just you know share some of her magic on this. Um, but oh my god, I just so honored. Oh, great, great. You're hired.

[37:03] Emily Fletcher: You helped me to name, which still is just such a good title of a talk. And it was funny and it was scary and it was inspiring and it was uplifting and also sobering. And you really just like helped me craft every single part of that. And you started from asking me like the simplest question of like what upsets you? Like what makes you mad? What do you what are you most passionate about right now? And I don't know that I ever would have written that talk if you hadn't asked me those inspiring questions. And it certainly would not have been as funny if you hadn't helped me with it. So thank you.

[37:40] Susan Blackwell: It's my honor and it's also my privilege to get to take the brilliant things that you say and your brilliant teaching and then take and turn them around and put them into big dopey I've made musical numbers. I've made episodes of the Sparkfile podcast based on your teaching like it's a it really is a cycle of inspiration. And I um I'm privileged to steal your very good work and put it into my very silly work. So thanks for that.

[38:07] Emily Fletcher: True but you're welcome so for our listeners are there um you're just so accomplished not just as a creative but as an entrepreneur and as we mentioned before like making that leap do you have any nuggets of advice for our listeners who might be in that same space or a similar headspace?

[38:33] Emily Fletcher: Well, I think that it's important to remember that with any job, there's going to be pieces of it that you love and pieces of it that you don't love. And that's why it's called a job. And you know, I think sometimes when we get real precious about whatever it is, like if it's your art, or even sometimes people turn their hobby into a business and they and then it's tricky because then your ego is wrapped up in it, your identity is wrapped up in it, your income can be wrapped up in it. And so then it gets uh just more layered. And so I think just remembering that it can be it's like to protecting the 15 or 20% of your time in your life that's actually the hobby or the art and keeping that part sacred, but knowing that the other, likely the other 85% of your time and job is gonna be a job, you know.

[39:22] Emily Fletcher: I I spend probably 10 to 15% of my time actually teaching. You know, the rest of it is hiring and funnels and websites and engineers and you know, am I filed properly for new New Jersey state taxes? And do I have workers' comp correct in California? And that's be I'm not really doing that stuff, but I have people that are doing those things now. But in the beginning I was doing that stuff, and um, and I have an amazing team, and so that I guess that would be the next step is as soon as you possibly can, and maybe just before you can afford it, start outsourcing. You know, like you gotta really value your own time and you have to be um honest with yourself about what your time is worth, what's that creative time worth, what's your you know, if you're like the face of something, or if it's you're the only one that can make these woodwind pipes or whatever, you know, then if there's anything you can outsource for someone that costs less money than you do hourly, do that.

[40:22] Emily Fletcher: You know, and I'm not suggesting that you get yourself in debt, but if there's something that costs you a lot of time and energy that you know you're not good at, you gotta get help. You know, you gotta I can't see Laura Camien right now, but I can see her in my mind's eyes shaking her head.

[40:37] Laura Camien: Yeah, yes.

[40:38] Emily Fletcher: Yeah, it's just so true. We had we were met with an interesting concept recently. We were um taking a class and they were talking about um, you know, strengths and weaknesses and this idea of like you don't need to focus on your weaknesses and try like super super hard to get better at all the things that you're weak at, you can outsource. It was like, what? Um because we've spent our professional careers like trying to identify weaknesses and strengthen them and get better at them. And they were like, make somebody else do it. And we were like, oh yeah.

[41:15] Emily Fletcher: There's this, there's this guy, um, his name is Dan Sullivan, and he has a company called Strategic Coach. I've never worked with him personally, but a bunch of my friends have. And like the big brilliant theme of his whole work is like it's not what you're going to do, it's who is going to do it. It's like constant like who's gonna do that, who's gonna do that, who's gonna do that. And that is it, it's a transition. And even as a solopreneur, like, look, you're gonna need someone to do your taxes. You're gonna need someone to maybe clean your house, or you're gonna need someone like you cannot do all of it by yourself. And if you try to, you're either gonna feel like you're failing at a lot of things all the time, or you're gonna exhaust yourself, or it's gonna be tricky for you to really become the world's leading expert in whatever the thing is that you started the business around.

[42:01] Emily Fletcher: Yeah. And there's a beautiful, like just to get it a little hippie-dippy and esoteric for a moment, but in the Vedas, they so in the Vedas, which is this beautiful, beautiful ancient body of knowledge, um, from whence we have acupuncture and yoga and feng shui and meditation. Um, so in the Vedas, they like to anthropomorphize different qualities. And so, and these are this is not a story about like Hindu gods and goddesses, because this is is predates Hinduism, and anyways, it's too already too complicated. But there's like a fable. Imagine it's like a fairy tale about two ladies. Um, one is name Lakshmi and one is name Sarasvati.

[42:40] Emily Fletcher: Okay, and Lakshmi is all about money. She's like all about abundance and money, and Sarasvati is all about knowledge. And the fable is that if you want Lakshmi's attention, put your attention on Sarasvati. Like you want money, get to be an expert at something. Like put all your attention on Sarasvati, and then Lakshmi gets jealous, right? But it's like if you aren't becoming an expert in something, if you're not really doing deep and becoming your own first student, then you don't have much to offer or to teach. And so then what why would the abundance follow? This makes a lot of sense.

[43:19] Susan Blackwell: This is why I love it. She's always blown my mind with fables and knowledge bombs. As somebody who I have looked to, as um, you've set my mind right on a lot of different things. I'm just curious, how are you seeing the world right now? And how are how are you supporting people? And also, do you have any thoughts for us and for the listeners about how they can um be supporting people and themselves?

[43:52] Emily Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah. So I'll talk big picture first, and again, I will go back to the Vedas, which is just the most beautiful holistic system of thought that I've ever come across. It's just a human interpretation of natural law. And there are some universal truths that have really guided me and helped shape my perspective and the way that I metabolize the world and certainly big events like this. But there's this beautiful concept in the Vedas, and it is that there is no such thing as good or bad. There is no such thing as right or wrong. There is simply creation, maintenance, and destruction. And if we lead with creation, which good thing there's this podcast, if we lead with creation, then maintenance is in second place and destruction is in third.

And life flows pretty elegantly. Now, where we humans tend to mess it up is that we create, we like the results of our creativity, and then we want to maintain, we want to hold on. And so then accidentally we start leading with maintenance. Creativity has gone to the back burner and destruction is nipping at our heels. And then we all know what it looks like when destruction moves into pole position. It's not bad, but it is not elegant.

[45:05] Emily Fletcher: Okay. Then creativity is right behind. Okay. So this is the beautiful part of the story. Because obviously, right now we are in a massive time of destruction. Human lives are being destroyed, entire systems are being destroyed. You know, the school systems, real estate, higher education, Broadway. I mean, there's a lot of things that are changing quickly. And so the thing that is bringing me comfort is just coming back to this universal truth that it is a cycle. It is creation, maintenance, and then destruction. And so right behind destruction is creation. And it will be up to us. And by us, I mean the three of us and everyone listening to this podcast. Because if you have subscribed to a podcast called The Spark Files, then you have clearly raised your hand and said, like, I'm awake, I'm willing to lead with creation.

I am willing to be used as a vessel for nature to create things through me. And so it is up to us to architect not only what our lives want to look like, but also this new reality that we want to live in. And I think that as you architect your life, you build the confidence to architect a new world. And I'm not even being a little bit facetious or a little bit dramatic when I say that it is up to us to dream into existence the new world that we want to live in. And that means one that is not mired with systemic racism. That means one where people do have access to healthy food and soil. That means one where we're not hurtling our planet towards, you know, apocalyptic climate change. And that means one where we're not dealing with political and economic divides.

And that's yes, it will take meditation. Yes, it will take creativity, but will also take work and diligence and bravery. And we won't have the stamina to do that if we are mired in worry and anxiety and stress. And so this is the time for self-care to not be negotiable. It is, it is not a luxury. It is not just for rich white ladies to take bubble baths. This is like, no, we need all hands on deck to be marinating our brains in bliss chemistry, to be giving our bodies the rest that they need so that we have the stamina to rebuild the world that it would be fun to live in.

[47:19] Emily Fletcher: And to support people to do that. Um I'm sure there are many ways. That was my esoteric answer. This is a good one. That was my esoteric answer. Here's some practical stuff. And I got a lot of practical stuff. And like you guys mentioned earlier, I have a whole website full of this stuff. There's a free self-care center that has guided visualizations. It has an interview with my therapist, has an interview with my coach. We have child psychologists. I have breath breathing techniques. It's a whole library. It's a full resource library, free to anyone who wants to access it.

[47:50] Laura Camien: Incredible.

[47:51] Emily Fletcher: It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So that's just our self-care center at zevameditation.com. But what else? Okay, so step one, and this is really just the foundation is we we gotta be meditating. And yes, I'm biased, but um meditation doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be scary, but it is a skill. And most people are not meditating because they think that it is hard, or they think that they have to clear their minds, or they think that they don't have time. And it's fascinating how people are like still not finding time, even though you know many people are quarantined at home, which really speaks to the fact that it was never about time, it was always about the fear of feeling our emotions.

And and that is the beautiful and challenging thing about this practice is that it will ring you out, it will it will make you sit in your feelings and move through your feelings. So I would say step one foundation is meditation. If you don't like me and you think I'm a ding dong, go find someone else. But I do teach a technique in the book. I have an online course, like there's I do these free, like all that free stuff we just mentioned. But I would say, you know, start a practice every day, twice a day. Um, and then on top of that, it's listening to your own body. And one of the beautiful benefits of meditation is it will it will afford you the ability to listen to your body. Because on Tuesday, you might want to write a play, and on Wednesday, you might need a nap. You know, on Thursday, you might want to start a petition to keep composting alive in your city. And on Friday, you might need an ugly cry.

[49:21] Emily Fletcher: And that's all okay. Like you don't have to just have one persona of like the pandemic warrior, you know, which is what I was doing in the beginning. For the first like six or seven weeks, I definitely like my workaholism is my like working is my drug of choice. And I just went into overdrive mode. I was like, I'm gonna give and heal and save the whole world. And I got and my back went out, and then I got that was actually that was probably the worst of it, is that my back went out, and then I just got like my was just fun starved. Like I just wasn't seeing my friends and I wasn't making time for myself, and I just got a little depleted. And so, and I just really realized that like a week and a half ago.

So I'm making changes, I'm doing more cardio just for to get endorphins. I'm um, I did this beautiful Zoom with like 10 of my college girlfriends last night, which there's also um there's some like rules around the for me for the zooming that it feels regenerative and not um exhausting. Because like there, you if you get too many people on there, it's just it's just a performance. And if it's not enough people, I don't know, I just feel like eight-ish was like the sweet spot of people that I love because you can hear each other, you can talk over each other a little bit, and um, because I had convinced myself of a story of like I'm on Zoom calls all day for work. The last thing I want to do is be on a Zoom call for fun, but it was actually fun and it did feed my soul.

I did that last night. Um, what else am I doing? I'm oh, so I'm sleeping about eight hours, I'm meditating twice a day, I'm working out about three times a week, and I am doing some ridiculously deep, dark shadow work where I'm like writing down every lie I've ever told. I'm writing down 30 of my hauntings. I'm like in coaching with my like I have a relationship coach that I see every two weeks, and I'm seeing my therapist every two weeks, and then my other coach once a month, which I know sounds like overkill, but I'm definitely in doing the work. Yeah, I'm doing the work. Like I know there's like a phase two for Ziva that's gonna be like meditation plus, like this holistic life system, and I'm just in that work for myself right now. Because you're the student first.

[51:28] Susan Blackwell: That's right. I love that. I love that. You do so much, Emily. Is there anything creative you need to do before you're done?

[51:38] Emily Fletcher: Like in my life?

[51:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[51:41] Emily Fletcher: Ooh. I mean, I really I'm I'm not kidding. Like, I really want to work with Oprah. Like, I want to be on Oprah, I want to be, I want to collaborate with her. I am. Yes. And this, I it's and now I have like two of my friends were on tour with her on her most recent tour, and one of my students was like leading meditations, and I was really trying hard not to be jealous, but I was. Um and so I'm just choosing to see that as a sign that I'm like one step closer. Yeah. Yeah. I want to work with her, and yeah, I think I I don't know what this thing is yet. It's whatever is is like it's just like getting uh fertilized right now. This new sort of step two for Ziva, but I think it's gonna be big.

[52:26] Susan Blackwell: I love it. God, I'm so excited. You dream big and you work hard. It's really, really incredible. What's it all for in your mind?

[52:34] Emily Fletcher: What's it all for?

[52:40] Susan Blackwell: Well, I I would like to eradicate the planet of unnecessary suffering.

[52:47] Emily Fletcher: Oh. That's a hell of a what's it all for? Just that.

[52:56] Emily Fletcher: I mean, but but notice that I'm saying unnecessary, right? Because I do think that some suffering is part of the human experience. People are gonna die. You know, like there is pain. You stub your toe, you break your leg, like you have a kid, like it hurts. Um, and there's so much suffering that is unnecessary. Have you guys seen that meme floating around the internet of like it's a it's a little boy, he's a toddler boy. I don't know, is it's like uh country of origin, but he's Asian and he's like holding onto a pole, and the water is like rushing by him, and he's screaming, crying, screaming, crying, and then like all of a sudden, like 30 seconds into this video, he just puts his feet down and stands up.

Yeah, and it looks like he's gonna be like whooshed away in the water, and then he's like, oh, it was just he was like in two inches of water, but it looks like he's drowning. And I I often feel like that's what so much of the world is doing. Like we are suffering so hard from solvable problems. Insomnia is solvable, stress is solvable, anxiety is solvable. Your immune system is strengthened, it is a it has the ability to be strengthened, and and yet we're just like, well, well, here I am. Like we're just choosing this victim mentality, and we're so addicted to the suffering that we need more and more of it to even feel alive. And we've got to flip this on its head. It is solvable.

[54:18] Susan Blackwell: I love this distinction. It's I love it so much. And that visual is perfection.

[54:24] Emily Fletcher: That's great. Emily, finally, who or what is sparking you these days?

[54:31] Emily Fletcher: Well, I'm sure y'all have talked about it, but if not, let me start my rant on Glenn Doyle's Untamed. It is, I mean, it is a freaking work of genius. Glennon Doyle is my new spirit animal. This book, it I have listened to it three times in a row on Audible. And might I remind you that I have a toddler and I'm running a multi-million dollar company and I listened to this book three effing times. That's how good it is. Like it's so good. I mean, it's when here, I'll tell you why, because I've been doing a lot of thinking about this because I'm I'm working on I'm working on book two. So I'm really like, like, what's lighting me up and what do I want to birth? And here's why I think untamed is so good.

One, writing is Glennon's form of artistry. She's not like a meditation teacher hacking her way to a book like I am. She's actually a writer. You know, she's just like, oh, that is her, like cobbling words together is her form of creative expression, and it shows. Two, just like any good actor who is uh able to take extremely specific things and make them super universal, you know, like the that was the weird paradox that I never really fully understood how to execute on as an actress that the more specific you are, the more universal the reach. And that is what Glennon has done in this book. Her story is so hyper specific, where she leaves a man to go marry an Olympic athlete woman, and the whole story of her life in unfolding with her kids, it's hyper-specific and yet it rings so universally true.

And she manages to use like she manages to alchemize so much darkness in her life into light. And it it really truly, it's it's number one on all of the lists for many weeks in a row for a reason. Please read it. It's so good. Damn.

[56:19] Susan Blackwell: My God. I'm literally like, okay, as soon as we hang up, I'm getting this button. I'm getting this button.

[56:26] Emily Fletcher: Amazing. Oh, Emily. Thank you so much.

[56:31] Susan Blackwell: Emily Fletcher. Thank you. I would like to give us a quick shout out for the fact that we basically did not talk about meditation or the science of meditation this whole time. I think it's because Susan's done it for us, probably like preemptively. You've talked about it so much. I feel like you you there's so much on your website. You've talked about it so much. And we also are super interested in knowing you as a creative person, which I feel like you get less of a chance to talk about, which is very interesting to us, I think, and to our listeners. So joke, your meditation practice has woven itself through multiple episodes of the Spark File. Like it is a through line. So this is just like this is a bonus episode to get to really talk to you.

[57:15] Emily Fletcher: It really is. It really is.

[57:19] Susan Blackwell: Take a shot when you hear the name Emily Fletcher. It is we've got a lot of drunken sparklers out there. Um but but all of that is to say, and I've said it before, uh I know I say it uh ad nauseum in my private life and in my teaching life, and certainly in my podcast life, but the benefit that I have gained from the practice of meditation that you taught me, which I continue to do to this day. Emily, how long has it been? I can never remember, but you can.

[57:50] Emily Fletcher: I mean, I want to say like seven or eight years. I think it's eight or nine. I don't know. Um yeah.

[57:56] Susan Blackwell: Okay. But that has changed the course of my life, without a doubt. Changed it for the better. Uh made my life so much better, made my work, my relationships, all of it, my stress levels, like all of it, so so so much better. And I cannot thank you enough for that. And I love you and I love the work you do and the way that you're changing the world. We're so happy to have you here.

[58:23] Emily Fletcher: So I'll be back tomorrow. I'll be on the back tomorrow and the next day and the next day because this has been so nourishing for my soul.

[58:30] Susan Blackwell: It's all really it's all true. It's all true. Cannot recommend this work highly enough. So I people and people ask me, they're like, how not to be self-aggrandizing, but when people are like, How are you so how can how are you so awesome? Like, or how are you so calm under pressure? How are you so? But it really is. It's like, how are you you? And the the, you know, so Emily sort of laid out her map for it, but mine was similar, like a lot of therapy and a lot of meditation. Though those foundational pieces are it really, so there's your two-step process, a lot of therapy and a lot of meditation. Um that's just that's just one Susan's journey. There you go, easy peasy. Um, but your work has made my life joyous, and you are a joy. And we're so happy that you're here. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[59:25] Emily Fletcher: We'll do. This episode of the Spark File was recorded on Muncy Lenape and Seminole Land, and we hope it put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, email us at the sparkfile at gmail.com, or you can submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[59:54] Susan Blackwell: It is true. And if you need us, you can find us on social media at the Sparkfile. And if you want more sparky nomnums, be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review the hell out of this podcast. Hey, hey, if you liked what you just heard, share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, I don't know, Emily. What do you say to your critics?

[1:00:15] Emily Fletcher: I see. I'll see you. I'll see you when you're ready.

[1:00:18] Susan Blackwell: See you at the perfect time.

[1:00:23] Emily Fletcher: See you at the time.

[1:00:25] Susan Blackwell: Bucket A. If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[1:00:39] Emily Fletcher: Oh my god, yes. You gotta take it and make it.

[1:00:45] Susan Blackwell: Thank you, Emily Fletcher.

[1:00:48] Emily Fletcher: Love y'all.

[1:00:49] Susan Blackwell: Okay. We're not open to something that inspires me. Dump it in the spark files.

[1:00:55] Emily Fletcher: Spark files.

[1:00:59] Susan Blackwell: Could be something that I wanna pick or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark files.

[1:01:04] Emily Fletcher: Spark.

[1:01:09] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[1:01:12] Emily Fletcher: Sparkfiles.

[1:01:14] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[1:01:19] Emily Fletcher: We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Spark File. Once again, you can find out more about Emily's work for kids and adults at zivameditation.com/slash spark. By using that link, you will access a treasure trove of resources and you'll be supporting the Spark File too. That's Z I V A Meditation.com slash Spark.