This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Laura Camien: Spark.

[0:19] Susan Blackwell: Something that I wanna make or how I wanna be, I pump it in my spark spot.

[0:28] Laura Camien: I jump into my sparks.

[0:32] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart, creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:46] Laura Camien: If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. But you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it? These are such good questions.

[0:55] Susan Blackwell: We actually have an answer for you.

[0:57] Laura Camien: We do.

[0:58] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:04] Laura Camien: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:12] Susan Blackwell: We're here to refill it.

[1:14] Laura Camien: We are. And we are on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark creativity and pique curiosity, things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast.

[1:27] Susan Blackwell: Or a Tony nominated show that you write and star in all the way to Broadway, baby. Or a big bold piece of musical theater that takes us inside other worlds.

[1:40] Laura Camien: Or a TV pilot script that puts your broken yet whole heart on the page. On today's Maker Soad, we're gonna talk with somebody who really, and I mean, really sparks us.

[1:53] Susan Blackwell: Really sparks us. And that someone is Hunter Bell. Hunter, welcome to the Spark File.

[2:06] Hunter Bell: Hi everybody.

[2:06] Hunter Bell: Hi, Susie.

[2:07] Hunter Bell: Hi, Laura.

[2:08] Susan Blackwell: Hi, Hunter. We're so, so happy that you're joining us today.

[2:13] Hunter Bell: I'm happy to be here. You're two of my favorite sparks.

[2:16] Laura Camien: You're a favorite spark of ours.

[2:18] Hunter Bell: I am super excited. For those of you who haven't had the pleasure, Hunter Bell is a Tony nominated Broadway writer and actor. He's also just a grade A human being, one of our nearest and dearest.

[2:31] Susan Blackwell: And as if that wasn't enough, he is also a Sparkfile creativity coaching client, which is to say, we are all up in his creative business, and we like him so much.

[2:42] Hunter Bell: All of that is true.

[2:44] Laura Camien: Our peanut butter, his chocolate, his chocolate, our peanut butter.

[2:48] Hunter Bell: Delicious.

[2:49] Susan Blackwell: It's obscene.

[2:50] Hunter Bell: I'm a long time listener, first time guest.

[2:57] Laura Camien: You already know then what question's coming at you. We like to start with the basics. Where are you right now? How are you right now?

[3:04] Hunter Bell: For reels. I am in New York City right now. And right now, I'm really excited to have time with you both. I love you both as human beings.

[3:15] Hunter Bell: And as creative beings.

[3:18] Hunter Bell: Not beings, beings. Like pinto beans. And uh so I'm excited to be with you. I just have come off a good time with my brother.

[3:29] Hunter Bell: I had not seen my brother. Shout out to Deaton Bell, who is a creative spark in my life. I know he'll listen to this. And so I had not seen my brother in like quite some long time based on pandemic times.

[3:41] Hunter Bell: And I got to be with him. And I will share the honest truth in the spark about honesty. Um I was with him, we had time together, but his sweet dog passed away, this 12-year-old pup.

[3:53] Hunter Bell: So shout out to Remy, who was a beautiful sweet soul. And we were together. We were together as a family. I was with my brother. So I'm a little like um just coming off of being with family and losses in my brain and heart and being present because nothing will make it more present than you know uh transitioning.

[4:14] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that is true, and that is real.

[4:16] Laura Camien: That was an honest answer. Thank you for being honest.

[4:20] Susan Blackwell: I love that. I love that there's like no need to fake it on that first question.

[4:25] Hunter Bell: You might fake it later, but on that first question, totally legit realness.

[4:29] Laura Camien: Well, I like to think lots of listeners have little fluffs or pets in their lives who are like family members, and so I think a lot of people might relate to um to having that energy around you, and when that changes a little bit too.

[4:43] Hunter Bell: So, shout out to all the spark listeners with little four-legged and I don't know, floofs, floops and floofs.

[4:52] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[4:54] Hunter Bell: I think that's really sweet. Wes and I were just talking because we just moved back to New York, and we got in our new place, and we were like, um, this is the first apartment that we haven't had our kitty.

[5:06] Laura Camien: Yeah, you know, kitty moved with us from apartment to apartment and then passed away in Florida. And so we're thinking of our little fluff ball too.

[5:15] Hunter Bell: I think about a lot too, how the world is and folks are at home, you know, a lot, and how that energy and that time of bonding with a little um pup, maybe uh has been nice. But yeah, so that's the honest answer. I have a lot of gratitude and a lot of awareness of presence and of and I don't know, just in the world today, gratitude to be here and safe and with you guys, and I feel um a lot of gratitude.

[5:43] Laura Camien: Group hug.

[5:45] Susan Blackwell: We're glad you're here. But listen, before you go any further, trying to muscle into the Spark File, we must request the Spark File price of admission. Can you tell us a creative risk that you have taken recently and you can't get past the bouncer until you do?

[6:01] Hunter Bell: Laura is the bouncer.

[6:03] Laura Camien: That's right.

[6:04] Hunter Bell: Fake ID. I got my Spark fake ID. Um I have recently been taking a creative risk, um, truly based on the work I've happily been doing with you all for many months now, and my Spark file group.

[6:20] Hunter Bell: Two things coming on. The first is working on a pilot, jumping back in on a television pilot and putting some energy and thought into what story I'd want to tell through that medium.

[6:30] Laura Camien: Nice.

[6:31] Hunter Bell: Uh that has been a creative risk, and also the creative risk of how to navigate having a live theatrical show, Otherworld, the musical I'm working on, be taken away and be and gonna happen, then not happen, then gonna happen, not happen, how to build and take kind of creative risks around that when you don't have certainty around when it may be.

[6:56] Hunter Bell: We're starting to have more certainty with that project. So those are two risks: TV pilot and how to give creative lift and energy to my live theater project.

[7:05] Susan Blackwell: Well done.

[7:06] Laura Camien: I'd say that you are officially admitted into the Spark File.

[7:10] Hunter Bell: I'm in the club.

[7:11] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, you're in the club. 21 to drink, 18 to party.

[7:17] Laura Camien: Hunter Bell, for people who don't know you, how do you identify creatively? Like when people ask, what do you do? How do you answer that question?

[7:24] Hunter Bell: I'm laughing because I'm gonna also be super honest about this. So it's called maker sode, right?

[7:33] Laura Camien: It is.

[7:34] Hunter Bell: So the word maker has an interesting place based in my head and heart the past few months. And I uh I recently turned 50 and fabulous. Um I made a decision to take myself to Cherry Grove, Fire Island. I've never been there.

[7:52] Hunter Bell: I was like, that would be a great place. I had a vision, I want to turn 50, be by the ocean. Wasn't really feeling a lot of like plane travel, so that's close. I could get there by train and ferry. Felt really great.

[8:03] Hunter Bell: And I was really moved by the history of the island of what was made there. And I go to a restaurant and I walk in, and a very sweet hot guy named Anthony is like, Hunter Bell, I know your name. How do I know you?

[8:18] Hunter Bell: And I say, Oh, well, I'm a maker.

[8:18] Hunter Bell: I'm a maker.

[8:26] Laura Camien: Yeah, you did.

[8:27] Hunter Bell: He's like, What what? I was like, Well, I wrote this show. He's like, Oh my god, title show. I know that show. I it was very complimentary of it, and was like, Oh, you wrote title show. I'm like, Yeah, I wrote that. And I was like, why don't I just say I wrote it?

[8:39] Hunter Bell: So I but I think it goes to the heart. Sometimes I've had trouble owning or having some feelings around when people ask me what I do, I was like, Oh, I'm a writer. And they're like, Well, what do you write? And I'm like, uh, a Broadway show. And I'm like, a title show, maybe you know it, nine people's favorite thing.

[8:54] Hunter Bell: So it is exposing, and I will expose to you on it. Why don't you just say I wrote Wicked?

[8:58] Laura Camien: I'm glad I can't do that now.

[8:59] Hunter Bell: I was like, a Vita, ever heard of it? It's amazing. Um, but so I that's why maker makes me laugh. I told Anthony I was a maker. Um, and which I am a maker, and this is a maker sode, but the long answer to land the plane, I'm a writer. I'm a writer and a creative producer of things.

[9:17] Hunter Bell: I don't necessarily mean like line producer, budget financial, but I produce ideas and producer can be in a lot of different things.

[9:26] Laura Camien: That's right.

[9:27] Hunter Bell: Yeah, I produce things, and I'm a creative imaginative uh guy.

[9:31] Susan Blackwell: You certainly are, and I'll also say you're not the first person to express um that they have difficulty like owning the title. I think especially like when you have such reverence for that thing that it sometimes it can be it can be scary slash weird slash something to say, like I am that, yeah.

[9:53] Hunter Bell: But you very much are that.

[9:55] Hunter Bell: I am really working hard to like own it, to be like, oh wait, no, I am a writer, and I'm the very successful one, and I'm really proud of what I write. And I think some of it has to do with the ideas of the fear of what the question comes after it, like what did you write, and like the worth around that too? And then sometimes, you know, I just want to be like, um, be anonymous in the world.

[10:17] Hunter Bell: Um, but that was an example of I said I was a maker, and I think I sounded odd, but I'm a writer.

[10:25] Laura Camien: I like it.

[10:27] Laura Camien: So, Hunter, to all of this, let's turn back the hands of time a little bit. You actually started your creative career as an interpretive artist, but you've almost completely transitioned to being an originating artist. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey from interpretive artist to originating artist?

[10:48] Hunter Bell: Yeah, I think I did what I knew how to do. I always like my brother and I wrote things and we made movies and we did plays and movies in my aunt's basement with the camera, video camera for my uncle, and we made all that kind of stuff.

[11:04] Hunter Bell: So we were like writing, producing, we didn't even know. We were just playing, playing, playing, and we were put on the Grease album and dancing in my cousin's backyard. Um, a way back to them. So I did plays, I did community theater, I did high school theater, I was all into high school despians, I loved all that.

[11:21] Hunter Bell: And then I went to college for musical theater happily at Webster University. So I knew I was like, oh, that's what I know in the world. That's what I know how to do. So that's what I did. And I got a degree in musical theater from Webster University and worked regionally and worked as an actor and auditioned all around.

[11:39] Hunter Bell: And I never got like a Broadway show's actor uh for a long, long time. I did eventually, but my Broadway debut was I was in the ensemble of um How the Grinch Stole Christmas, a musical adaptation at the St. James Theater, which was amazing and it was historic, and I loved it.

[11:56] Hunter Bell: It was a felt like a dream come true to be able to perform in that theater as an actor. It was fantastic. So fun. It's a really special show.

[12:03] Hunter Bell: Starring Patrick Page.

[12:04] Hunter Bell: So good. He was amazing. It was a really, really special show. I was incredibly proud of being a part of that, mainly because it was Jack O'Brien was the director. For those listening, he's a, you know, great director of plays and musicals on Broadway and around the world and helped the Old Globe Theater start. But Jack said to us, this is a lot of young people's first show. And so let's knock it out of the park and give them wonder and make them fall in love with theater. And that's all I needed because I was like, oh yeah. And you do the show four times a day. It was incredible. It was really fun, people. Patrick's amazing. So that was my Broadway debut as an actor. But I'd always been writing.

And so the transition was kind of honestly came through knowing Jeff Bowen and Susan Blackwell. I met Jeff Bowen as an actor. We were in a production of Good News together and as performers. And then through Jeff, I met Susan Blackwell, and through Susan Blackwell, I met Laura Camien. And friends, I hear they're great. It's fortuitous. Everybody involved is on this call. Laura Camien had a theater space and said, hey, do you want to write something? And we did. Is that right, Laura? Isn't that right?

[13:16] Laura Camien: That is absolutely correct. You saying, hey, I have this space. Do you want to have a couple nights paralleled with me getting an email about the New York Music Theater Festival saying we're taking submissions, and that's how title of show started.

[13:31] Hunter Bell: And so that energy. Thanks, James Compton. Thanks, James Compton listener. I was working with James at a place called Book Smart for many years. Shout out to Book Smart packing book boxes. Oh, Book Smart. This feels like a squirrely answer, but it came from I was a music theater lover and performer, and then I worked in a book warehouse packing books by day. And then I met people like Susan Blackwell and Jeff Bowen, who kind of gave me permission. Susan, at that time, you were doing Wonder Twins with Rebecca Finnegan. I was like, wait, Susan, you can write your own stuff. You don't have to just go to auditions, and you can make your own things and put it up and have a space. And then Laura Camien's like, I have a space.

And so you guys truly both introduced me to this idea in New York that you could do that. I didn't think that was an option. I knew how to do it like in my backyard with my brother and my aunt's basement. But then I did high school shows and college shows and regional theater shows and off-Broadway shows. And I was like, oh, you can make your own stuff and put it up. So thanks, guys.

[13:36] Laura Camien: Yes.

[14:37] Hunter Bell: I think sometimes we buy into this idea that there is a system. We have to work within the system. There are gatekeepers, and we have to collaborate with or move through those gatekeepers in order to make things happen. But frankly, you can just totally go rogue.

[14:37] Laura Camien: You can.

[14:56] Hunter Bell: I love it. You both were, you truly are both people who kind of opened those gates for me because I was like, wait, Laura's a producer? Oh yeah, she's producing. Wait, Susan is a writer, director, creator? Oh, yeah, that's what they look like. They don't look like whatever cartoon version I learned from Bugs Bunny or the Muppets, or you know. Yeah, and I mean, you don't even have to have it all figured out because, like, for me, I was just frankly, it was vanity projects. I was producing my own stuff written by me with my friends in it, and I had like signed up for, I got a residency at a theater space accidentally, and then was like, sure, sign me up for like five shows this year. And did not know how those five shows were going to materialize or happen.

[14:56] Laura Camien: Wow.

[15:44] Hunter Bell: I was like, I've got one that I've written, but I must know some talented friends who can write the others. And Susan Blackwell, I remember Susan being like, oh man, I think my dance card is full right now, but I know some people, and I specifically remember being at your kitchen table.

[16:03] Laura Camien: Me too, Laura.

[16:04] Hunter Bell: Punch so viscerally. I can shut my eyes. I remember it clear as day. I'm so thankful. I remember looking at that calendar, and you're like, have it. And it was game changing. It was because I was like, wait, we get to put this on. And what was game changing, but too, not just the permission and the geography and the space and the time and the like opening the door to say do this, was how fun it was, and how much I loved it, and how much like that it's truly sparked joy and creativity, be making things I love with people that I love, as Susan Blackwell says. And I was like, wait, oh, this is an option. I know I keep repeating that too, but again, you're right, Susan. I think we get conditioned of like, well, this is how it works.

And I truly think I know I joke, I was like, I guess I learned it from TV and movies, and I'm like the producer at MGM or whatever, you know, like our Bugs Bunny trying to sell a song on Tin Pan Alley. I was like, oh, you have to. There's that Golden Palace idea from Now Hear This, Susan Blackwell, of like, oh, that's for others, and it wasn't. And like you both made space to learn that. So that was the key of kind of going from like, oh, I have an idea for a thing to like, wait, well, I have a show that goes on tonight in New York City. And it feels like you took that, ran with it, and just never looked back. Like you have been since that moment just continuing to originate work. Am I wrong about that?

[17:37] Hunter Bell: You're not. I credit it to like surrounding myself with a lot of great people. You, Susan, Jeff Bowen, Larry Prescrove, Heidi Buckenstaff, Michael Barress, Lee Overtree, Eli Boland, Marcy Heisler, Zena Goldrich, Julie Andrews, John and Al Kaplan, who I did science with. These are all people, and this is what I love about musicals so much too, that I surrounded myself with two kind of almost like floaties on my arm as I'm learning to swim. And those people helped keep me buoyant. And on paper, they're sometimes like I'm built as like book and those folks are built as like director or choreographer or music and lyrics. But those were people creatively I was surrounding myself with to learn from, to listen from.

I don't assume that they didn't learn and listen from me, but I was as I was kind of finding my way, because I didn't have formal training as a writer. Not that I think you need that at all, but I think I held on to that idea of like, oh, I didn't go to playwright or I didn't go to a screenwriting school. I'm just telling stories. And so I surrounded myself with a lot of amazing collaborators that helped me never look back.

[18:50] Laura Camien: It's amazing. Can you tell us a little bit, just bringing it into the present moment now? Can you tell us a little bit about Other World?

[19:01] Hunter Bell: Yeah, I'm happy to. Otherworld is an original musical I am currently working on with Jeff Bowen and Ann McNamy. Jeff and Ann are on music and lyrics. I'm on book. And it tells the story of two characters, three Lorraine, that are magically transported into a video game. Specifically for my game nerds out there, MMOR-P-G, massive multiplayer online role-playing game, sort of games people might know listening, like World of Warcraft. That's not necessarily the style of our world, but that gives an idea of like where you create an avatar and you go and you have adventures and people love living in those worlds. I am not an avid gamer. I was a kid of Atari 2600, so I'm a gamer and, you know, arcade kid.

Jeff Bowen is a big gamer. I started, I met Ann McNamy. We were working on a project, and then I was like, do you want to do some original Anne? And she's like, yeah, sure. And we landed upon this gaming idea. And I had watched Jeff Bowen game. Jeff and I worked on a project for Disney called Villains Tonight. If you took a case, you might enjoy that. We were working on that in Toronto, Canada, and I would watch him play a game called City of Heroes. And he would be like all into it. That was kind of his winding down. And he would be talking to people on headsets. And I'm like, what are you doing? Who are you talking to? Do they know you? Who are what? And they didn't know him, but they didn't know Jeff.

They knew the avatar. Shout out to Loctic Prince and Jeff Bowen. But I watched him and I was fascinated by how people connect in this game world and what that world brings. I also was obsessed with like, you know, Alice in Wonderland and those Narnia Chronicles. I, you know, I, Susan, you talked about this. We'd have dreams where like you had like a closet and it was a wardrobe, and you know, you'd open the door and there's a whole magical land. So I love, I think that was more about living in New York in a studio and open and wanting more space. I would open the closet and there would be like, oh my god, there's a room that I didn't even realize I had that I now get to decorate. I had the clearest dream ever that I still remember.

Again, same thing, studio, but the magical doors were like under the sink. Yes. And in this dream, I'm like, under the sink? You had more space. There is another room. What if I just changed Otherworld? Otherworld is a new musical about finding out your apartment is bigger than you think it is. We'd be a hit. We run forever in New York. New Yorkers would love it. No, it's about gaming world, but it's about exploring a fictional gaming world that is not based on any kind of existing game. It's all original ideas of a game and IP, but truly it's an exploration of how we connect. That's a lot about loss. When I was writing this show, I lost my mom, Jeff lost his dad, and lost my brother. So we're, I think we're exploring loss and chosen family, biological family.

I'm really excited by it. So we had a production, we were out of town at a theater called Bucks County Playhouse. We were in a rehearsal, pandemic hit, we shut down. We were supposed to come back, we shut down again, and now we are slated to happen at the Delaware Theater Company happily and explore that in the coming year. But it's been interesting to work on a live theatrical piece, like I said, and sort of like, we're gonna do it. No, we're not. We're gonna do it. No, we're not. And part of my journey, as you guys know, is what do you do around that property? And how do you keep people interested and creative with that too? So Jeff and Ann have written a great score. Adrian Campbell Holt is a director, and she's wonderful.

Carla Garcia, our choreographer. And we have a really phenomenal cast of people who've been developing this for years. Disabled actors, non-disabled actors, LGBTQIA, you know, like we're so we're really trying to build a cast that is representative of the gaming community. And that's been exciting too because you see a lot of gamers with disabilities. There's an incredible convention called GamerX, G-A-A-Y-M-E-R-X that we would go to a while and see safe spaces for folks to experience games in game world themselves. You know, gaming is a complicated world, obviously, and there's darker sides to all kinds of bullying and online things too. But we are a musical piece that hopefully is going to celebrate a lot of inclusion and celebrate how people do connect and find chosen family in that gaming world. So I'm super excited because I haven't seen anything like it. And that's another thing I'm excited about of how do I use musical theater mediums to show stories that we haven't seen before.

[23:37] Laura Camien: Hunter B, I'm gonna ask you something. You are so clearly a seasoned creative, but one of the many things to love about you is that you are still down to clown when it comes to personal growth, as evidenced by your participation in the Spark File Creativity Coaching program, we might add.

[23:58] Hunter Bell: Yes.

[23:59] Laura Camien: But you're always, you know, fully present and ready for it. We're curious when you decided to begin coaching with us.

[24:08] Hunter Bell: Were there specific creative challenges that you were experiencing that you wanted to tackle or dig into?

[24:15] Hunter Bell: Yeah, absolutely, 100%.

[24:18] Hunter Bell: I feel like I don't know a lot about horoscopes. I mean, Gene Dixon aside. Um, but I'm a Gemini. And I guess from Gemini there too, like, I mean, I like to read the horoscope and then you know, be like, oh, that's totally what my day is like. I feel like I'm holding space for like I'm productive, creative, and make a lot of cool stuff that people love and that I love. And it was experiencing a lot of anxiety around creating, having feelings of self-doubt, having feelings of feeling like a fraud, having feelings like, could I produce something else that moves people, like other things I had done? And specifically, I remember I think I said to you both of I was seeking to find joy in my creative process.

[25:00] Laura Camien: Yes, that's right.

[25:02] Hunter Bell: And when I work and happily at the level I do, and there are specific demands on what you make. Not every moment is, you know, like skipping through the fields, but I was missing some joy, and I was not moved to create as freely and as openly as I wanted to. And so that's why I sought you out, and also kind of a community of like-minded creatives, as well as some discipline, to be honest, too, because I feel sometimes very undisciplined in my work.

[25:33] Susan Blackwell: We've been really inspired by how much you've gotten done in the past six months that we've been working together. Can you talk about what you've accomplished and what's changed for you during this this time with the Sparkfile Select Group creativity coaching program?

[25:48] Hunter Bell: Oh, the name just trips off the top. Um, yeah, happy to. I joined like for the reasons I mentioned about you know, wanting some joy, wanting some better practice, um, better tools in my toolkit creatively, because I can get the job done, but sometimes it's a little squirrely to get there, and it's like a little like taking a kid that doesn't want to go to school. I'm dragging myself. I'm like, I don't want to, I don't wanna, you know, like please, and looking for excuses, like I feel sick today and I want to stay home and watch Prices Right and have ginger ale and crackers, and it's like like a long way, you know. How do we get some more joy, ease, and struggle, uh less struggle? I went around a couple things to think about because Otherworld was on pause because we weren't able to open based on pandemic rules in the world.

And how do I use that time to make that show the best it can be to do rewrites? And to think about, I've been thinking a lot about that show and also theater in general, of when your experience starts with the storytelling. Uh specifically, like when you buy the ticket, when you enter the building, when you leave the building. And so I had some ideas that I wanted to accomplish and work with my collaborators about telling stories about that story on social media, and especially because we have this time, and how do you build an audience for an unknown original musical? You know, it's not based on anything, so you gotta build a brand, essentially. So that was a lot of times I was thinking about that, and also thinking about reacting to the world.

How and why are we telling stories and how can they matter in the world we live in, you know, based on everything that's happening, and how do we make stories feel useful, inclusive, open-hearted, connected, connected to community. And since the show's so much about community, a lot of the work I'm trying to do in my time with Sparkfile is connecting that show to communities and and how it spills off the stage and how shows can have impact, not just as the show themselves, but can the show affect communities and bring people together as a collective mind too? So that is one thing. And then you all challenge me too of like um what else you got, you know, to really like to be disciplined. And I thought about that.

And in this time too, I uh began a TV pilot idea. And Jeff and myself were very fortunate to have a run around the track uh with an incredible producer, Sabrina Wind around Title Showtime and had a little dance in LA. And it was incredible and also terrifying and anxiety making is the honest answer. I loved making it. I loved working with Sabrina, and I was terrified the whole time around it. There was like a lot of fear and anxiety of imposter syndrome around that. And so consequently, it made me not lean into using that medium to tell stories. Happily I filled my days making awesome musicals, but I think I had a lot of fear. So a lot of it was tackling those stories and using this time to build my toolbox because I love that medium. I love television, I love me some TV. And I want to do that. And I was like, how do we remove the blocks both creatively and emotionally? So I can do that.

[28:57] Laura Camien: Love that. It's so inspiring, you know, to hear you talk about that and everything that we know about you. Um, just like giving yourself permission to take another fucking swing at it. Like, I'm not gonna shy away from this or you know, run in the other direction, but rather let me like step back up to the plate and take a crack at it.

[29:21] Hunter Bell: Yeah, and not constantly go to the file of evidence that would say it would be hard and it would feel exactly like it did before.

[29:30] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, exactly. I feel like we've watched you step by step really redefine what you wanted your experience to be around your creativity, so not just making things, which is a heavy lift in and of itself, but also what is the flavor around the activity of making things?

[29:52] Hunter Bell: And you really, I feel like you are really redefining that on a day-by-day basis.

[29:58] Hunter Bell: I think so. Thanks.

[29:59] Susan Blackwell: It's nice to hear for reflected like that. I I've been thinking a lot about how I make stuff, why I make stuff, and what happens when I make that stuff and it goes out to the world. Look, I have a lot of privilege. I got to do an amazing show on Broadway with people I love that changed my life and changed a lot of other people's lives. And I'm so proud of that. And you know, great power comes great responsibility, Spider-Man. And how do I how do I use the privilege of that experience and who I am and the way I look and make things that hopefully are not just awesome but make the world a better place. I'm really kind of consciously thinking about how we make them and uh how we gather to make them and what it feels like in the making of them.

And I think I'm not alone in that. I think lots of people are happily questioning um practices and processes in in the making of things and and taking seriously the responsibility of holding a megaphone of what I put out into the world.

[31:01] Laura Camien: Yeah, you're um I know there are a lot of people, you know, uh us included who are thinking about these things, but one of the other things I love about you is you're so clear about your intention and your ability to articulate it is very inspiring.

[31:19] Hunter Bell: Um thank you. I just I just love it.

[31:21] Laura Camien: Thanks. I think that's coming to focus in the past year, honestly, and the work through you help with you all. I'm gonna do a shout out to Jenny Clift who you featured on the Spark File. And for those listeners who haven't listened to that episode, take a dive. Jenny's been amazing and to refresh uh uh emotional freedom tapping is connected to creativity and processing life and past traumas so that you can be not just the fullest artist you can be, open-hearted artist and live up to your creative potential, but fullest human being possible too. So Jenny, Marilyn, my therapist, my friends, you guys, family, like truly taking some time working out fitness. Shout out to Mark Fisher Fitness. Shout out to Meditation Tool, Emily Fletcher. Like there is a team I'm collectively putting together, I think, to really help me be my best self so I can make really cool stuff and change the world.

[32:15] Hunter Bell: You know, you bring up a point that is, I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Obviously, we're coaches. So in a way, what I'm about to say is a bit self-serving, but it's it has been my personal experience as well that having that carefully selected team of coaches and guides has totally changed my life.

[32:37] Laura Camien: 100%.

[32:38] Hunter Bell: Uh a million percent for me too. It took me a while to kind of get to a place I was to been tied to to ask for help. I was like, just do it alone, like put on my Superman cape and just like don't bother other people. It tapped into like people pleasing and like just lift, just bootstrap this and figure yourself out and up and lift it up and out. And I have re more recently than that, been allowing myself to ask for help and to get the help I need to live a more joyously full and creative life.

[33:09] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Amen to that. I mean, it's everything that you talk about, it's connection, it's community. And you know, as human beings, I just think it comes down to like we need each other. You know, the introverts in us, well, you know, we all sort of crave that alone time and that American sort of individualism, that rugged individualism that we're we're told, you know, we can kind of struggle it out ourselves.

[33:33] Hunter Bell: Yeah.

[33:33] Susan Blackwell: But at the end of the day, I think we need each other.

[33:36] Hunter Bell: Uh it's amazing you say that, Laura, Laura. It makes me think that the themes I often read, you know, artists are processing and digesting similar themes in a lot of their works. And a lot of what I make, I think is about connection and family, chosen family, biological family, and meeting other people and connecting. The title of show, now hear this, found, uh, even Great American Mousicle that, you know, was a musical about of pulling together and working together and needing each other to succeed. And Otherworld is no exception of like needing plot-wise to succeed and get out of the game alive, you know, stakes plot-wise. But how we need each other to be complete and whole and heal each other and heal ourselves so we can heal others too, and that kind of Vedic meditation for those that follow.

Um, but it's a lot about connection is as something I'm exploring. And if if I may extrapolate, it is one of the reasons why I feel really proud and really grateful to this group that we are all a part of to this creativity group, because I just see how it is, it's just creating this sort of safe containerslash incubator for people to try stuff to sometimes fail at stuff, but just take big swings and know that there's a a really soft landing, really compassionate, uh, but but also sometimes rigorous feedback. It's it, it I don't know, it m makes my heart swell just because I I do think it is um just one manifestation of what you're talking about, Hunter.

[35:19] Hunter Bell: I agree, and you know, making stuff is fun and challenging, and making great stuff is really vulnerable, and you need a safe place to be messy and chaotic and for it to be quote unquote terrible, you know. If that's a thing, I mean it's sort of as an adjective you use, or the feeling that it gives you is that it is terrible, learning it's not, it's just like that's where it is today. You all were part of a reading I did of this TV pilot the other night, and trying to find some joy with fellow collaborators in it being so not there, so not there. And what's interesting is about you know, as audience members, we see things when they're there, and that's what we should. We don't need to know how the sausage is made, you know.

We we enjoy a beautiful finished product, and but you don't often see, and this is why I appreciate you guys' podcast too, makers talking about it's so scary, it's so vulnerable, it feels like you want to curl in a ball, and it feels like moments like I'm embarrassed that this is being said out loud in this form right now.

[36:27] Hunter Bell: Like that's the feeling in my body, and my body shakes, and I'm like, this isn't good enough, and I feel sad and embarrassed, and not even like I'm not even joking, like I real want to crawl into the quilt and be like, I don't, I can't do this. I don't think I got this. I feel sick, I feel sick. Yeah, can I call it? Yeah, yeah. And so to have the space and some like-minded folks to be like, that okay, so you think it's terrible. Keep going, literally, as we chant in class. I love it, keep going. And to me, it seems so oversimplified, but that is the t shirt bumper sticker. That's how stuff gets made. That's how stuff gets made. That's how Title Show got made. That's how everything I've made. That's how other worlds getting made. That's how this pilot will be made. Anything on this planet is somebody happily either told themselves or somebody told them, I love it, keep going. So you have all this great work in the world.

[37:17] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[37:18] Susan Blackwell: Yes, to all that. Um, Hunter B, you know, this might touch back on, we'll see if this touches back on something we already talked about, but you know that we're fascinated by the topic of failure or perceived failure. And um, we're curious if you would be willing to share with us just something creative that you attempted that you perceived as a failure and how you processed it, what you learned from it, that sort of thing.

[37:49] Hunter Bell: Um, I don't know if it falls under failure, but I think I've carried around that my path was supposed to look like something else. And so I it feels it can feel like failure in my body sometimes. I'm sure it doesn't look like that from the outside at all. So it's an interesting thing to process and even discuss as an artist. I've had incredible success. Incredible success and accolades. And in my brain, I'm like, oh, your path is you honestly, you write a Broadway show, it happens, then you go out and you write your TV show, and then that happens, and then you write a screenplay, and then you have a house in Malibu. I think I literally like again made up a story and was like, that's a narrative.

And I got opportunities and got close to things happening, but it didn't happen like in a linear way. And I let the comparison vampire into my body and I saw peers have a different trajectory. And mind you, their trajectory is their journey, but I compared mine was like, oh, am I failing because I didn't move from this theatrical success into this other medium success or turn that into a winning an Oscar or you know like you know like that others and the comparison or that either through accolades, awards, even opportunities or using using my powers in other mediums, it didn't look like others. I made other shows, but somehow I think I often have equated that with somehow failing or I don't know if I say the F word out loud but I feel like that it is not successful that it wasn't successful. Does that make sense?

[39:32] Laura Camien: Do you do you still feel that or was that an unexamined thought that you have subsequently examined and processed?

[39:40] Hunter Bell: I think I've uh processed it a lot and feel it less and have felt it also less too in the past two, three years. And I also feel it less because it certainly goes away when I'm making awesome shows I love.

[39:51] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[39:51] Hunter Bell: But I think I often equated it with honestly as someone who grew up we weren't as wealthy as other folks around me, you know, and so and I carried I carried around um feeling different than wealthy kids, you know, like that I was a scholarship kid or something like that. So I think a lot of my brain was like a financial thing in my head that that would solve problems.

[40:07] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[40:14] Hunter Bell: Does that make sense? I don't know. I put it in like sort of like a financial sort of either financial or showbiz that like I wasn't on variety or deadline didn't announce that my sitcom got picked up or my pilot got made or you know, like that the that the world was experiencing a different kind of success in a different category than me or a meteor meteor sort of way.

[40:36] Laura Camien: Yes.

[40:37] Susan Blackwell: I I think it makes so much sense. I've thought it so much about this, and we all have talked about this too, you know.

[40:44] Hunter Bell: I now I have to check myself and I'm just like, wait a second, wait a second. Before you go down that wormhole, are you happy?

[40:57] Laura Camien: And I'm like, I am.

[40:59] Hunter Bell: I and by my metric, I want to make work that I love with people that I love. I want to make a good living doing it, and I want it to be sustainable. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm really happy on my own terms, and I'm doing great. And it looks nothing like I thought it would look when I was pick your age, 16, 18, 25. But it's it's born out of knowing myself better and making choices that really, really feel good in my body that aren't so much about what other people esteem to be successful.

[41:37] Laura Camien: It almost feels like a vestige of an old vision board that we made when we were a younger age.

[41:44] Hunter Bell: So true. You know, I it makes me think too about if I what I've kind of learned, like, well, that would happen, and it will happen when you want it to happen, and it's supposed to happen, you know, and the real and the release of that the aha opra moment of surrender and trusting universe. I I am at sort of tune with that, and the meditation and the tapping and the tools and the coaching has helped my brain kind of relax and and strangely in the release of sort of the burden of either desire or envy or a feelings of body of like, oh, I'm not supposed to, or what am I supposed to? And living in the present. And like you said, Susan, asking that question. Wait, I'm happy. I'm I really like what I'm doing. I'm making really cool stuff. And I love it. I'm doing great.

[42:38] Hunter Bell: I think great things are gonna happen through the freedom and the and the surrender to that. But the gripping or the feeling in my body of gripping of like, oh, I'm I'm not successful at something, I'm failing at something, just kind of a breath and release of all that, thanks to toolbox things, is been quite freeing and makes room for a lot of creativity, you know. So I I think I no wine before it's time, as they say, and release and the breath of that. And I'm and I'm learning, I'm getting better, and I'm working harder and I'm working smarter. And I also think I just something in my body maybe didn't want that or wasn't ready for it or didn't know how to do it yet.

[43:17] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's right.

[43:19] Hunter Bell: So I was like, oh, good work, universe. Good work. Now I now I know what to do and what I want to say and how I want to say it. So focus in and do that.

[43:28] Susan Blackwell: I love what you just said though, about like when you release it, you make so much more space for the actual creativity.

[43:35] Hunter Bell: And I think about like how much energy goes into all of that stuff, or has like in the past gone into all that stuff, and I'm like, none of that is real. What's real is you're getting words on the page, you're getting shows up on their feet, you know.

[43:49] Laura Camien: You know, that that's the real part of it.

[43:51] Hunter Bell: You're you're doing it.

[43:53] Laura Camien: I love that, Laura. It is true. That that is the real part, and all the other stuff is um, I honor it, but it's noise.

[43:59] Hunter Bell: It's noisy.

[44:00] Laura Camien: And it's phantoms in comparison and yeah.

[44:03] Hunter Bell: Yes, and it's a lot of mental real estate, like you said, Laura. And it is interesting to, when that is quieted, that's where the joy comes, where I'm like, I'm just making stuff on the page. Um, you know, like, and I love this and the workflow in, and now I have something to take to somebody to read to go make the pilot, you know, like, but you gotta get your you gotta do a little house cleaning to get my one and my head and heart and spirit right. Um I do believe I had a great teacher kind of say we're in the energy transference business, and I do believe that, you know, as writers, so the energy you're putting on the page has a better chance of moving and shifting the world in profound ways.

[44:45] Hunter Bell: I think if if you're aligned, I know that sounds a little woo-woo, but actually believe it of like if I'm open hearted and getting ideas and connected and love and pain and joy on a page, I think there's a pretty good chance that either the reader or the recipient of it through whatever medium is going to feel that because that's that's what went into it. I honestly believe that.

[45:06] Laura Camien: I really do believe that.

[45:08] Hunter Bell: Yeah, like you can feel it.

[45:10] Laura Camien: You may not be able to express it as an audience, but I do believe that too.

[45:13] Hunter Bell: Like, I'm like you can kind of tell. Some people may be fooling me, but I think you can tell.

[45:17] Laura Camien: I agree with that.

[45:19] Hunter Bell: So we have a question that was shared with us by fellow Sparkfile creativity coaching group member Michael Raddy.

[45:26] Laura Camien: Hi, Michael.

[45:27] Hunter Bell: Shout out to Michael. Full disclosure, this question was actually shared by Michael's brother in law.

[45:33] Laura Camien: So shout out to Michael's brother in law.

[45:35] Hunter Bell: We love this question. We're gonna try it out on you. Is there something that you're proud of or that you love that you don't get to talk about often that you'd like to tell us about?

[45:45] Hunter Bell: Is there something I'm proud of? It's funny with I'm I'm things float to the top, you know. I was just kind of taking a breath and seeing like what floats to the top. I don't know if this counts, but what comes to mind is I love looking at television. And I think I've just come off of like time with my brother and that like we there's a great Simpsons line we love, and Bart, it's in a that great episode of Bard of Darkness where they get a pool and he breaks his leg and he becomes like a reclue and recluse up in his rear window.

[46:22] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[46:23] Hunter Bell: And he goes, uh, time to get reacquainted with an old friend called television. And there is something lately about the medium too. I don't know, but that's what comes to mind of just like how powerful stories are through that.

[46:37] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[46:38] Hunter Bell: And I I talk about shows with people, but how much I fall in love with shows in that that art. And I think I don't talk, I came to mind and talk about because I love musical theater. I grew up like loving musicals and plays, and like I got to see shows in high school, and I think I talk about that a lot, and especially through like title show when I heard this. Very theatrical based. But storytelling came to me through watching TV. I loved it. I loved TV when we didn't have cable. I love it when we have cable. I love The Simpsons. I love the Muppet Show. I love Sesame Street. I love it in the morning. I love it at night. That's all right. Sugar in the morning, sugar in the evening.

[47:20] Hunter Bell: It's funny. My brother and I just talking, we just started watching a reboot of Fantasy Island, which I'm obsessed with right now. I loved the Love Boat. I love like TV, and I know they can give it a bad rap sometimes. I really love television stories and I love some reality television and I love all kinds of things. So maybe I do talk about that a lot. You can you guys around me sometimes. Do I talk about TV enough? But I think I identify a lot as a theater and theater maker, but it's so interesting, like to be pulled of like, oh, that's interesting that I don't say that out loud a lot. And sometimes nothing brings me more joy than drag race. Than Drag Race and Drag Race Hispania and Holland and the whole dynasty.

[48:01] Laura Camien: What's your home show? You like um oh uh I love um hometown with Aaron and Ben Napier and um I love HGTV, but I really love I love Parks and Wreck, I love The Simpsons, I loved Mr.

[48:15] Hunter Bell: Rogers Neighborhood, I love the Love Boat, I love my TV friends.

[48:20] Laura Camien: I love that.

[48:22] Hunter Bell: It makes so much sense because we do like time-wise, we get to spend more time with those people than most of our theater characters, you know, when we go see a show, we might see that show over and over again, but on television, you could have, you know, ten seasons of something.

[48:40] Laura Camien: I love that.

[48:41] Hunter Bell: I think that's right.

[48:41] Laura Camien: I've thought about that too.

[48:43] Hunter Bell: Of like, I'll listen to a cast recording over and over, but you're right. After ten seasons, I have a really special, interesting, weirdo thing placed in my heart.

[48:51] Hunter Bell: Uh two things. Some things are vamps is one thing that's nothing came to mind. I love like instrumental vamps, everything from like you.

[48:58] Hunter Bell: You love a musical figure, yeah. Underscoring.

[49:00] Hunter Bell: Musical figures, underscoring. I remember like I love the Sunday in the Park with George cast recording, but when I see that on stage, there's this beautifully orchestral arrangements that are the scene changes that are just like make me weep and give me chills thinking about it.

[49:18] Hunter Bell: So I love vamps and everything from vamps to instrumental to I love Brandy and Monica, The Boy is Mine. And there was like a 12-inch like remix instrumental, and I would listen to it over and over and over.

[49:32] Hunter Bell: Uh comes to mind too. I love that was a little of the uh sorry of a ramp off a vampire. A twofer.

[49:39] Laura Camien: Um yeah, you spend so much time.

[49:41] Hunter Bell: A twofer, you spend so much time with TV characters, vamps, and last episodes of shows, like where the friends put the key on, or they turn out the lights on Cheers, or even like I have a really visceral feeling in my body.

[49:55] Hunter Bell: Uh I used to love all those real worlds. I would watch those, like adjust them. And like, you know, they would be like, they pick up this person and they pick up this person, and you're the last person in the house.

[50:06] Hunter Bell: Like, so there's something that says I'll unpack that in therapy and tapping as well. About goodbyes.

[50:10] Hunter Bell: And you used to watch, you used to watch MTV's The Challenge, which I still watch.

[50:18] Laura Camien: And I was, Laura, we bonded on this.

[50:20] Hunter Bell: It was a little mortified to be like, oh god, Hunter's giving up the challenge, but I'm still on it.

[50:26] Laura Camien: Laura's still on The Challenge.

[50:28] Hunter Bell: I what I love about The Challenge is now like that's their careers. They've been doing challenges for 20 years.

[50:33] Hunter Bell: And I think I could easily get back on. I'm not, I'm not above it. I just fell out and other things fell in.

[50:40] Hunter Bell: And I could easily, and in fact, as you say this, full disclosure, podcast listeners, I subscribe too, and it's not add to the Paramount and whatever. And I looked, I'm like, oh my god, they have a challenge in all the seasons of those.

[50:53] Hunter Bell: So um I have to watch myself because I'll fall into your TV box. I fall into my TV box of love.

[50:59] Hunter Bell: As much as I love it, I was like, wait, I can love it, but I gotta make space to make my own.

[51:07] Laura Camien: It makes sense, yeah, that you that you are in love with this medium and that you are actively pursuing not only making something for this medium, but also doing it in a way that imbues it with that love.

[51:23] Hunter Bell: Well, title show is that great Jeff Owen lyric. When we set out to write this musical, we said we'd write a show that we want to see.

[51:29] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[51:30] Hunter Bell: And that's where I feel like I've like always being like, what do I want to see on TV? And there's a lot of stuff people making things that I do want to see. But what story, if I have the megaphone and I'm gonna press that button and announce something, what do I want to be broadcaster?

[51:44] Laura Camien: Yes, I like it.

[51:45] Hunter Bell: I like it. I just want to say thank you again to Michael Raddy and his brother-in-law for that gem of a question.

[51:51] Laura Camien: Yes, yes, yes.

[51:51] Hunter Bell: So thoughtful and it makes me it made me joyous to think about. So shout out to that question.

[51:56] Laura Camien: Great question.

[51:57] Laura Camien: Um, Hunter, you have been in the creativity business for a little while. Can you give us some good creative advice?

[52:03] Hunter Bell: Some good creative advice. Um surround yourself with awesome people. I think about everything's collaborative. I think about, I mean, you know, if you if you if you would like for your work to be out there, there also is a place in the world you can work by yourself and you cannot.

[52:22] Hunter Bell: I am all about if you want to paint a painting, just have it in your house, that is as important and profound as it hanging in, you know, Musee D'Orsay or something. You know, like yeah, I truly actually believe that of like things don't have to be published to be profound and resonate.

[52:38] Hunter Bell: But if you are interested in that, surround yourself with awesome people that will help lift you up when you get scared or want to give up. Um, and even if writing a novel, you have an editor or you have a best friend or you know, someone you're bouncing ideas off of collaboration and listening take a lot of time, and I'm still a work in progress of how to show up open-heartedly as my best self, and how to show up to listen to others' ideas and make room for them, and also marry and braid them with my voice and what I want to hear.

[53:18] Hunter Bell: Um, and the advice I do love, and I don't know if it was given to me or I'm claiming it, but maybe it's both, is as you're listening, collaborating, challenge yourself to really listen. Are you really listening and breathing and being present in a working collaborative artistic environment? Or, and I say this from having to learn it too and remind myself am I just waiting for the other person to finish so I can say the thing I want to say? And if it and I encourage A, because all boats rise when you let it in, and that goes back again to being your best self, to getting your house clean and showing up as your best self and being responsible for the energy you bring into a room, so that everyone feels respected and heard in the same way you want to be respected and heard, and that is a lifelong journey for me of like collaborating because you're gonna collaborate, hopefully.

[54:12] Laura Camien: That's awesome.

[54:14] Hunter Bell: Hunter, is there a creative thing you know you absolutely need to do before you're done?

[54:21] Hunter Bell: Yeah, I'd love to have a TV show on the air that I create and produce.

[54:24] Laura Camien: Yes.

[54:25] Hunter Bell: And then from that, I would love to spark and give me the resources and frankly money and authority, or the P word power, to make space to lift up other stories and artists that I want the world to see.

[54:44] Laura Camien: Yes.

[54:44] Hunter Bell: Mmm.

[54:45] Hunter Bell: Yeah. So a production company to turn and say, hey, I like this story. I like you. Get over here and let's build this and let's find the resources for you to tell this story.

[54:56] Laura Camien: That's great.

[54:57] Hunter Bell: That's great. Hunter, here's a question we ask all of our guests. You work really fucking hard. What's it all for?

[55:05] Hunter Bell: I think the word connection comes to mind.

[55:08] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[55:09] Hunter Bell: It we talked a lot about this in this episode about connection, those themes coming together. And like real connection, the feeling where like you feel something, the other person feels something. Um, well, that's me watching the Love Boat and Fantasy Island or Mr. Rogers or somebody watching something I make.

[55:29] Hunter Bell: I think it is so that we feel connected, which means me to the idea to feel less alone. That's what we work fucking hard for to I don't know, feel connected.

[55:40] Laura Camien: Yeah, I love that.

[55:41] Hunter Bell: Finally, Hunter Bell, what or who is sparking you these days?

[55:47] Hunter Bell: You've shared Fantasy Island reboot.

[55:50] Hunter Bell: It is.

[55:51] Hunter Bell: It really is. Do you are you just holding steady with Fantasy Island reboot?

[55:55] Hunter Bell: I don't know. It's checking a lot of boxes, either nostalgia, but it's beautiful to look at. I think about that TV show Vineno, if I'm pronouncing it correctly, I hope I am. It was so beautiful. I was recently at the beach with my brother, walking on the beach was really sparking me. And that was nice. Being with my brother sparked me, being with my family.

[56:12] Hunter Bell: I was gonna say it's corny, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna qualify because it's not. Gratitude is sparking me. The world is really complex right now. And finding pockets of gratitude for basic things like safety, health, shelters, uh putting things in perspective of like, wow, I have a lot of privilege and I get to tell some stories and I'm safe and healthy and have three hots and a cot, as I say.

[56:41] Hunter Bell: And so kind of that gratitude is sparking me as I look around the world, and it feels hard and scary sometimes. That wow, there's a lot to be grateful for in my world right now, and some abundance that I'm really grateful for, and my health, which I'm grateful for. And so that sparks me to use those things to maybe make some stuff that make others feel connected and joyous.

[57:08] Laura Camien: Hunter, beautiful.

[57:09] Laura Camien: I have to say, like your gratitude is palpable. It's and it's it's really inspiring. Just having gotten the chance to like spend more time with you as of late.

[57:23] Laura Camien: Um it's really it's really meaningful. I I really feel that gratitude radiating off of you.

[57:34] Hunter Bell: Thank you so much.

[57:35] Hunter Bell: Thank you, Hunter Bell. Thank you for being our guest today on The Spark File.

[57:40] Hunter Bell: I'm super honored, I have to say.

[57:43] Laura Camien: We love you.

[57:44] Hunter Bell: We do.

[57:46] Hunter Bell: I love you guys. Thank you for inspiring me and so many people, and I really am honored to be a guest on something that I listen to on my walks in the park and love and lifts me and makes me think and cry and scared sometimes when they're scary ones.

[58:02] Laura Camien: Sometimes they're scary, Hunter.

[58:05] Hunter Bell: The spooky file, I call it.

[58:08] Hunter Bell: But I love what you guys put in the world and um no secret. I'll say on the podcast of how you both have changed my life and um as an artist and as a human being.

[58:19] Laura Camien: Oh, thank you, Hunter.

[58:20] Hunter Bell: Did you likewise?

[58:23] Laura Camien: I think that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and Seminole people, and we hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file.

[58:33] Laura Camien: Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and you fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, you can email us at thesparkfile@gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[58:48] Laura Camien: We'll even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, we need you to share a creative risk that you've taken recently.

[58:58] Laura Camien: And be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast.

[59:01] Laura Camien: Subscribe, rate, five-star review it. If you like this podcast, share it with people you love.

[59:07] Laura Camien: And if you didn't like it, I don't know, Hunter Bell, what do you say to your critics?

[59:11] Hunter Bell: Haters to the left.

[59:13] Laura Camien: Yes, girl.

[59:15] Hunter Bell: Yes. If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[59:26] Hunter Bell: It is your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[59:31] Hunter Bell: You gotta take it and make it make it.

[59:36] Laura Camien: Bye.

[59:37] Hunter Bell: Bye.

[59:38] Laura Camien: Love you, Hunter.

[59:39] Hunter Bell: Love you, Hunter.

[59:39] Hunter Bell: I love you guys. Thank you.

[59:40] Laura Camien: Bye.

[59:41] Hunter Bell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in my spark files.

[59:50] Hunter Bell: Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[59:55] Hunter Bell: I pump it in my spark files.

[1:00:00] Hunter Bell: I jump into my spark fire.

[1:00:00] Hunter Bell: Spark fire.

[1:00:05] Hunter Bell: Let's open up the spark fire.